THE DER FUHRER DEATH LIST

5/13/2020

Sammy Davis, JR

Threatening letters to the newspapers, police and celebrities are not uncommon (so cannot all be attributed to the Zodiac Killer), but in the interest of impartiality we will look at as many as possible and consider if any link exists to the Bay Area murderer or other suspected Zodiac material.

The following communication (postmark address unknown) was dated by its author as January 19th 1974, but was received by Sammy Davis, JR on the same day the Exorcist letter arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle, on January 29th 1974. It was received at Harrah's Reno Hotel & Casino, Reno, Nevada, situated 20 miles north of Lake Tahoe and Incline Village. It contained several interesting items accompanied by the signed pseudonyms "The General" and "Der Führer". Part of the letter "From: U.S. Armed Forces To: Sammy David, JR", stated "You are on a death list. The police cannot help you. If you wish to stay alive, go to the L.A. (SFV) Nike Missile Base for instructions. The General".

The Zodiac Killer, or somebody purporting to be the Zodiac Killer, sent a "death list" of 30 politicians and celebrities on June 8th 1977, dubbed the "Steve McQueen" letter. Then on May 2nd 1978, another letter with a "death list" was mailed in Los Angeles to 5615 Melrose Avenue and the Channel 9 KHJ-TV Studios. The envelope postmarked May 2nd 1978 was misaddressed and should have been mailed to 5515 Melrose Avenue, which was the correct address of Channel 9 KHJ-TV, which sat right next to Paramount Studios located at 5555 Melrose Avenue. However, there are many things that came with the "Der Fuhrer" letter that parallel the May 2nd 1978 Channel 9 letter.

There are many parts to the January 19th 1974 letter, but the "death list" introduction was written on the reverse side of a billing invoice dated October 31st 1971, from the Monterrey Pharmacy, 12901 Riverside Drive, Sherman Oaks, California. Irrespective of this being the date Cheri Jo Bates' body was found in Riverside, the Monterrey Pharmacy was just 7 miles (by crow) from the Channel 9 Studios at 5515 Melrose Avenue. Another part of the January 19th 1974 letter had a small card enclosed, bearing the name "Institute for Family Neurosis Research". The flip side of the card bore the handprinting "KGIL, (213) 894-9191". This was a radio station in the San Fernando Valley, Los Angeles. KGIL began broadcasting on October 19th 1947, on 1260 kHz with 1,000 watts of power full-time. The station was licensed to San Fernando Valley Broadcasting Company, with studios and executive offices at 4919 Van Nuys Boulevard, Sherman Oaks, California. This location was 9 miles from the Channel 9 Studios at 5515 Melrose Avenue.

Click image to enlarge

Another item in the January 19th 1974 letter was an extensive list of well-known individuals and accusations on a memographed sheet dated December 4th 1973. This was signed with the pseudonym "Der Führer". Two individuals mentioned on the list could be connected to the Channel 9 letter, which included "Ex Chief piggy Ed Davis" and "Susan Atkins" (see right).

The "Der Führer" section stated "Police Chief Ed Davis and City Atty, Burt Pines managed the poisoning of Marv Gray....Pres". Later in the ramblings it mentioned the murder victim Sharon Tate, killed by the Manson family and Susan Atkins, which also featured heavily on the Channel 9 envelope and in the letter. Sharon Tate was murdered at 10050 Cielo Drive, a former luxury home in Benedict Canyon, in the west-central part of the Beverly Crest neighborhood of Los Angeles, bordering Beverly Hills. This location was just 5 miles from the Monterrey Pharmacy and KGIL radio station.

Therefore, did we have an individual mailing the January 19th 1974 and May 2nd 1978 letters from the region of Los Angeles, with a passing interest in the Monterrey Pharmacy, KGIL radio station, Channel 9 KHJ-TV Studios and the Manson family murders at Cielo Drive, all located within a 9-mile circumference of one another. And of course, both letters mentioned or carried a "death list".

Another threatening letter to a famous personality, was postmarked December 5th 1973 from California and mailed to Colonel Harland D. Sanders of Kentucky Fried Chicken in Kentucky. It bore the return address of Central News - Wave Publications, 1016 West Vernon Avenue, Los Angeles, California. It was another typewritten letter, dated December 4th 1973, exactly the same date attributed to the "Der Führer" letter above, thereby indicating it was almost certainly mailed by the same individual. It was accompanied by a handwritten note bearing the letterhead "United Paper & Press, 13240 Riverside Drive, Sherman Oaks, California", dated January 14th 1974, and signed "The General" once again. The return address on the typed letter of 1016 West Vernon Avenue, Los Angeles, bisects Sherman Oaks and Anaheim (postmark on the Channel 9 letter).

United Paper & Press at 13240 Riverside Drive, Sherman Oaks, California is just 702 meters from the Monterrey Pharmacy at 12901 Riverside Drive, Sherman Oaks (from the Sammy Davis, JR letter insert). Both inserts from Sherman Oaks (Monterrey Pharmacy and United Paper & Press) were from U.S. Armed Forces. This one too carried a similar ominous message: "This is to inform you that you are in grave danger of being murdered. For details go to any recruiting station and call the Los Angeles Nike Missile Base. The General".

We can now add United Paper & Press at 13240 Riverside Drive, to the Monterrey Pharmacy, KGIL radio station, Channel 9 KHJ-TV Studios and the Manson family murders at Cielo Drive, totaling 5 locations within a 9-mile circumference - along with Police Chief Ed Davis, Sharon Tate, Susan Atkins and the 1234567 A.G.C.G.T.H. (All Good Children Go To Heaven) additions.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/13/2020 08:11:00 am

Amazing Richard , for you have put all of this up as a topic , and will have another '' real good look ''.

Suffice to say that this guy is '' The North Hollywood Hoaxer '' - but was he the Zodiac , also ?

A few pointers , for anyone new....

Check out the '' dropped m's '' as a typrewriter fault .

'' Jim '' may well be meant as Captain James '' Jim '' Tiberius Kirk , as in '' Star Trek ''.

This guy also had one correspondence , that was found to have emanated from Hong Kong . And , reading into the FBI Files , there developed a suspicion that this guy may have had two cars ; one of which with Oregon licence plates (...easy movement through California...D.B.Cooper hoaxer ( ? )....Concerned citizen for freedom ! ( ? )...).

It seems that the FBI were going to move on who they thought it might be...but then the Patty Hearst kidnapping rather stole all resources .

The '' Der Fuhrer '' letter is certainly a feast for the eyes , and will give it closer examination . Thanks .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/13/2020 08:23:54 am

One suspicion was that this guy resided at Canoga Park .

Richard

5/13/2020 08:39:42 am

Yes Rubislaw, the two General letters are obviously the same individual based on Sherman Oaks and the Nike Missile Base language. Whether the link can be established to 1978 is not as certain. I have presented a case for a link, but this isn't compelling. And there are certainly more types of these letters somewhere. This author clearly just doesn't write 2 letters and stop. There is no great indication either are Zodiac - and I once presented a case for Donald DeFreeze, alias "General Field Marshal Cinque" - so who knows. Anyway, I need a break for a while until we go "Star Trek" hunting, and beyond.

Richard

5/13/2020 08:48:01 am

Until recent examinations of the May 2nd 1978 letter, I made a case for the Channel 9 letter being the SLA (mimicking the Zodiac) because of the threat on Ed Davis and Darrel Gates, two officers instrumental in the murder of six SLA members in 1974. Two officers that previously hadn't crossed swords with Zodiac. However, Zodiac, being a ruthless bastard, probably sided with these groups against the police - so the 1978 letter could be Zodiac after all. It's a tough one to disseminate.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/13/2020 09:05:59 am

I see your point.. This guy doesn't appear to play the '' Pied Piper of Hamlyn '' card , and still feel that the Channel 9 letter was Zodiac .

The list is so long in this Der Fuhrer letter , that one almost loses the author's point...which one assumes is a communist inspired death list , that includes Walt Disney .

To kill Walt Disney , I presume , would be to reduce the places for '' Paedos '' to hang out ( ? ) .

~Bill

5/13/2020 02:53:26 pm

You guys do know that Walt Disney died in 1966 right? I'm just pointing it out, it may be nothing.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/13/2020 03:02:52 pm

Good point Bill , I see now that ''they '' had already murdered Mr.Disney .

Richard

5/13/2020 11:17:54 am

Added Kentucky envelope above.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/13/2020 01:12:51 pm

Thanks Richard , for the envelope . Doesn't seem to be giving anything immediate out , with the Zodiac . But , I suppose , if the Zodiac was that a compulsive hoaxer , he would have had good experience of '' changing in to other clothes '' ( ? ) .

The Santa Claus postcard is quite a high point , and we are always expecting more immediately , when something like that happens . But , it will probably be a case of back to the drawing board , for a while , and '' eyes down'' .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/13/2020 03:53:58 pm

In order to attempt to start understanding where this slightly baffling hoaxer is coming from , in his mind , a clue near the very end , perhaps ( ? ) :

''....JJJJimie....JJJJackson.....JJJJr.....Editor...''

James E Jackson Jr ( 1914 - 2007 ) . Leader of the Communist Party of USA , and pioneer of Civil Rights .

Up to recently , not much has been known about James E Jackson Jr , on account of Cold War Anti-Communist censorship .But , deeply admired by Martin Luther King .

Various articles about him now , can be accessed via the internet .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/13/2020 09:06:31 pm

In this typed letter , signed by Der Fuhrer , there is claimed :

'' Shrink Fred Hacker viciously killed Robt.Walker...''

Following the kidnapping of Patricia Hearst , by the SLA , on February 4th 1974 , Randolph Apperson Hearst , father of Patricia Hearst , employed the services of psychiatrist and terrorist expert , Dr.Frederick Hacker , as his professional confidant .

On March 27th 1974 , Dr.Hacker's secretary received a '' cut and paste '' message , at Hacker's Beverly Hills practice , addressed to Hacker who , was away on business in Europe at the time . The postmark indicated March 24th 1974 .

This is what the message said :

Dr.Hacker You are to call this number 4839064 at 6 p.m. Monday March 25th to talk on Miss Patricia Hearst release Don't contact FBI

So , the deadline date and time had already expired , when Hacker's secretary read the message .

Who was '' Robt.Walker '' ?

In 1951 Alfred Hitchcock made the psychological thriller film '' Strangers on a train '' starring Farley Granger and Robert Walker , about two men who meet on a train , and plan a double murder by agreeing to kill each other's intended victim .

Robert Walker , at 32 , had become a major Hollywood star , but within 6 months of the film's release , was dead , as result of an allergic reaction to an injection to sedate him , as a patient of Dr.Frederick Hacker who , was treating Robert Walker for depression .

So , it may well be that '' Der Fuhrer '' was the person who constructed and mailed the '' cut and paste '' instruction to Dr.Frederick Hacker , on March 24th 1974 .

Were Der Fuhrer and the Zodiac , one and the same hoaxer ?

Refer : HEARNAP FBI File 15 , Pages 298 - 303 .

Richard

5/14/2020 12:49:31 am

Nice digging Rubislaw, don't know whether they are the same hoaxer, but the time period certainly overlaps regarding the Exorcist letter. Remember, the SLA letter on the 3rd was mailed from Los Angeles as well.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 03:36:39 am

Thanks Richard . There's another couple of these sorts of letters , though much shorter in length . I'll post access references , if I spot them again . '' Red Chief '' and '' The Admiral '' were other names , as well as '' Der Fuhrer ''.

This '' North Hollywood Hoaxer '' took to the SLA and Patty Hearst kidnapping , like a duck to water . Margaret Pepper , who was the mother of Steven Weed , was another person , apart from Randolph Hearst , receiving attention .

Also , Charles Cella , a journal owner and chocolate magnate and racehorse owner , from the East Coast who , had business interests in Oregon .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 04:11:03 am

Just on a matter of conjecture , and food for thought...

What the FBI are claiming , to date , by inference is , that the Zodiac wrote the '' SLA letter '' . A tiny '' contribution '' to SLA / Hearst hoaxing ( ? ) .

One wonders if the SLA letter was designed , by counter intelligence , to '' annoy the pants off '' the Zodiac who , was far more involved in this subject matter , than has previously been admitted ( ? ) .

Richard

5/14/2020 05:03:12 am

I think many approach the SLA letter, Citizen card and Red Phantom communications as either Zodiac or Zodiac hoaxes. I don't take either position. No address style in either three was ever used by Zodiac, no mention of victim totals, no overt threats, no crosshairs and no mention of Zodiac. In my humble opinion, they were just mistaken as Zodiac communications, written by other entities who were operating at the time. The Exorcist letter almost willed observers to believe any subsequent communications in close proximity to January 29th 1974. were Zodiac too. In other words, the Exorcist letter coloured their judgment towards the following communications. I think the SLA letter was created by somebody with Scandinavian heritage, hence the Old Norse reference that neither you, I or anybody else would invoke in a million years, unless it was pertinent to something in your life. I am fairly certain I know who created the SLA letter, which I won't beat on about. I have long given up trying to convince people with long entrenched beliefs, only the open-minded.

There is one glaring fact, that the SLA envelope was not released to the public, so putting aside the grand conspiracy theories, the author of the Red Phantom letter was 100% the author of the SLA letter. The handwriting isn't just similar, it's identical (other than the deliberately added tails). That leaves the Exorcist letter and Citizen card to tackle further. I have my suspicions, but cannot prove to get over the line one way or the other. In terms of the FBI and police - they have often become the convenient "fall guy". When Gary Stewart and Lyndon Lafferty couldn't get their suspects over the line, the claim of cover up begins. Their shortcomings and inability to convince authorities their suspect is the Zodiac Killer, isn't thought of as "they just don't believe me". It is translated to "they do believe me and they know my suspect is the Zodiac Killer, but they are wilfully covering up the evidence". Hence the pathetic title of Lyndon Lafferty's book, with built in excuse on the front cover. These claims of cover ups are easily translated to "I haven't provided enough evidence that my suspect was the Zodiac Killer and I'm going to blame somebody else for my shortcomings". It's a tiresome and well trodden argument that fails to impress. Failure is part of trying.

All we have to work with Rubislaw, is a few nth grade communications and less than comprehensive bag of police reports, which we are attempting to fill in the blanks 50 years later. I think the best we can hope for is building a bigger and better picture of the Zodiac Killer, and I have no grand illusions of solving this case, which effectively is dead in the water in Jack the Ripper territory. I have no way of knowing the nefarious involvement of the FBI, if they have any secretive involvement at all, and no way of proving it, if it existed - so I don't go there. I think we have to work on what is in front of us. Dissect the crimes and communications and hope we learn a little more.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 04:26:11 am

....and , as BB has alluded to recently , the HEARNAP file letter , that mentions Angela Davis , who had been fired as a lecturer from Berkeley University , for spreading the word of Communism , on campus....with her firing largely down to Catherine Hearst , Patty Hearst's mother .

The Angela Davis reference , is '' so up the Zodiac's street '' ( ? ) .

With Sammy Davis Jr , obviously getting in to trouble , from his '' Rat Pack '' mates , like Frank Sinatra , for fund raising on behalf of Ms.Davis .

Richard

5/14/2020 05:17:53 am

Well, we know he had one eye on Berkeley because of the "Blue Meannies" reference on March 13th 1971. So we can chuck this in with the firing of Angela Davis from UCLA on June 20th 1970.

Richard

5/14/2020 05:21:05 am

Back in the U.S., she joined the Communist Party and, as a Marxist feminist, involved herself in a range of leftist causes, including the second-wave feminist movement, the Black Panther Party, and the campaign against the Vietnam War. In 1969 she was hired as an acting assistant professor of philosophy at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA). UCLA's governing Board of Regents soon fired her due to her Communist Party membership; after a court ruled this illegal, the university fired her again, this time for her use of inflammatory language.

The communist angle.

Richard

5/14/2020 05:30:44 am

Maybe "Red Phantom" was a mocking taunt of others believing that the Russians were responsible for everything ill in America. The author effectively stating he was a "Communist Phantom". The "Red" used as a backlash to all the McCarthyist propoganda.

Richard

5/14/2020 05:37:18 am

This is from the Russian Council:

"Writer's note — The word “beatnik” is attributed to the legendary San Francisco newspaper columnist Herb Caen, who, in 1957 after launch of Sputnik and the start of the “space race” combined the idea of the loose lifestyle of the Beat writers with the Russian “nik” to suggest that these folk were different, alien to contemporary American society. It took nearly a decade for the tag “beatnik” to become politically incorrect. Today the designation “beatnik” is considered a cultural taboo and frowned upon. It's common to refer to them as “The Beats” or “The Beat Generation.”

Therefore, could the author of the Red Phantom letter have deliberately chosen to included the "hidden red" element because it had significance to columnist Herb Caen.

Richard

5/14/2020 05:42:07 am

https://russiancouncil.ru/en/analytics-and-comments/columns/culture-and-international-relations/the-mccarthy-era-and-the-beat-movement-seen-through-russian-eyes/?sphrase_id=33015231

Richard

5/14/2020 06:17:23 am

McCarthyism was described by some as the Justice Department's illegal tactics to fight the "phantom" of "red revolution".

Richard

5/14/2020 06:25:15 am

The Red Menace (reissue title Underground Spy) is a 1949 anti-communist film noir drama film directed by R. G. Springsteen starring Robert Rockwell and Hannelore Axman.

An ex-GI named Bill Jones (Robert Rockwell) becomes involved with the Communist Party USA. While in training, Jones falls in love with one of his instructors. At first true followers of communism, they realize their mistake when they witness party leaders murder a member who questions the party's principles. When they try to leave the party, the two are marked for murder and hunted by the party's assassins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Menace_(film)

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 05:34:25 am

In fairness to the '' Rat Pack '' , they were real friends and cared about each other . Sammy Davis Jr was actually Jewish , but his initial reaction to Angela Davis was that he shared her '' Blackness '' .

Yes , Richard , Lafferty has been one of those curious Zodiac contributors whose legacy has been one of both help and hindrance .There was no cover-up or conspiracy of silence . Merely , the law refereeing itself correctly , in that there was justification for William Grant to claim that he had been unjustifiably harassed by the ( Vallejo ) police .Even though suspicions remain that Grant had at least a clue to who the Zodiac might be .

Lafferty did , of course , mention the fact that Grant had been cleared , by DNA , in 2002 /2003 , in his book , but was not overly highlighted . The information that Lafferty had received was that Grant had proven a negative match , in three out of five DNA criteria , as set out by the CA DOJ and FBI .

Lafferty protested on account of assuming that there might be a 40% match ( ! ) . I don't think that anyone would believe that the criteria , as set out , works in this way .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 07:48:36 am

I certainly like your inferences that the '' Red '' in '' Red Phantom '' may have had '' undertone '' allusions to the colour being emblematic of communism , Richard .

After all , the Zodiac was constantly attempting to remind us , of his knowledge and recognition of the wide spectrum and diversity of political , as well as religious persuasion .

But , whoever did write it , did come across as genuinely angry . Whether that was actually with columnist '' Count Marco '' , remains open to debate .

In contrast ,it seems that columnist and San Francisco's '' darling '' , Herb Caen , could do no wrong in the Zodiac's eyes .

In addition to the term '' Beatnik '' , Caen also coined the expression '' Baghdad by the Bay '' , in inference to the multi - culture nature of the Bay area .

I have the Zodiac down as likening himself to Ali Baba , in the Z13 cipher solution , but he may well have seen himself as '' The Thief of Baghdad by the Bay '' , also .

Richard

5/14/2020 09:10:27 am

Yes, I'm mixing up Herb Caen and Marc Spinelli - my mistake.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 09:44:21 am

I was thinking more about how the Zodiac , professed of himself or , how he wished to be perceived . So '' Red '' could be communistic .

This same '' Der Fuhrer '' had called himself '' Red Chief '' which , one might think , was a subliminal dig , at Donald DeFreeze , with the SLA seeing themselves as division of the '' Red Army Faction '' ( ? ) .

5/14/2020 09:52:34 am

Red is a big time metaphor he uses.

I have been exploring it myself.

It is a hot button thing now these days too.

But back then it meant different things.

We have to explore it though.

How do we get everyone to see that we are only doing so

in reference to that time period and not this.

Some people are touchy.

Tip toe through the tulips.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 10:01:58 am

I know what you mean about '' touchy '' , BB .

This is about history , and solving a criminal case , largely within a historical context . We have not the time to stand on ceremony , it seems to me .

As an example , the sodomy laws were such ,that practising homosexuality was against the law .

So , we ought not to have to resort to calling a spade a shovel , simply to appease the less than broad minded .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/14/2020 03:39:41 pm

Well , I see '' our '' Der Fuhrer guy has sneaked in the name , Mary Jo Kopechne , A sectretary working for the Kennedy office , who drowned in an apparent accident , while accompanying Ted Kennedy , from a party , July 18th 1969 .

And , 13 days later , the Zodiac unfurls the 408 cipher , to the local press of the Bay area .

No references from the Zodiac ? But , GYKEDTY in the cipher text , remains '' tantalising ''.

5/16/2020 06:07:26 pm

Rubislaw 32
Ted Kennedy thought he killed Mary Jo Kopechne. But the party goers that last seen him said they saw him sleeping in the back of the car. Maybe he didn't kill her. July 18th 1969 was a Daliday. Ted first did not remember anything. Then he said his first memory was waking in the water swimming. Then they told him to clam-up. Maybe the truth was that Mary drove off the little bridge with Ted in the back sleeping. He wakes upon getting thrown in cold water and swims to shore thinking he was driving drunk. It was pitch dark and he didn't know about Mary. And, possibly that's why didn't report it right away. Then he just assumed he must have killed her. He should have plead not guilty - with that for a defense - he would have won. But, he took a plea and was penalized.

5/16/2020 07:39:06 pm

Nixon said in White House tapes that he set a bear trap for Ted at Chappaquiddick.

5/18/2020 09:30:21 am

Rubislaw 32

When the accused takes a plea they save the court time and money so the penalty is much less than pleading not guilty. Putting the community thru a long stress-filled trial is going to get the guilty party a long time in prison.

5/14/2020 05:29:07 pm

Richard
Please make this into an article.You can use it however you like. I just want the killers name or names to one day be revealed. As you know. I am driven by this nagging sense of curiosity. While I've been holding back for the past month on talking about this idea. Not sure when to talk about it. At this time it seems to presently be coming-out in the collective investigation anyways. This then apparently must be the right time.
----
We know that the killer wanted everyone as of Aug. 4th 1969 to think his moniker was "The Zodiac" because that would blame everything on Arthur Allen. It worked. Still to this day everyone except true investigators think he was the killer. What was the cipher killer's real moniker though? For that answer - we are going to have to read lots of comics and detective magazines. The descriptive word 'red' was written twice in the desk top poem. First to refer to blood. Second to refer to her red pants/dress (attire) "oh well it was red anyway". How did he know her pants/dress (attire) were red unless he was there? The ' r h' was in lower case. Since it is descriptive as a central element of the poem. The letter " r " therefor was referring to the color red. We have the comics Red Ryder and Red Mask. They are also hinting to the notion of a comic book character. The obvious letters r and h are begging to be used for this notion of representing a super-villain moniker which at that date the killer would logically be trying to establish. When we look to the greatest comic book super-villain of all time "the Joker" - we find that his original name is "the Red Hood". The dates that are predominantly to figure-in-to the origin of the Zodiac symbol and the Red Hood are found in the Detective magazines and the Detective Comic all of 1941. I'll give those references later. I'd like to get this said first though. The huge thing that came out in 1941 was - according to movie critics - the best movie ever made - Citizen Kane. Randolph Apperson Hearst was the fourth and last surviving son of William Randolph Hearst and Millicent Hearst. His twin brother, David, died in 1986. Randolph is the father of Patty Hearst. Wikipedia. He took over the reins from his father William Randolph Hearst. But in old-man Hearst's final days he let it be known that his biggest most urgent desire was to get revenge for what he perceived to be a smear job on him done by the Movie. It was a mockery of him - all about the pointless greed. Orson Wells said that in the end - Hearst really longed for a simpler time symbolized by "Rose bud" which was a little red sled he had in child hood. This nebulous theory is that Randolph Hearst was the super-villain Red Hood. He may have used his wealth to create this character of a laughing crazy man - super villain to do his dirty deeds. His connections to the hiring of murder incorporated may never be established. But the mob killers were hired to kill by unscrupulous wealth men. The logical meeting place for rich men and gangsters is the casinos of Nevada. This was actually all starting back with Jack the Ripper in 1888. Hearst's newspaper was used to invent the Ripper Character. Whether the killers were hired to drive the sales of papers or vice versa we will never know. But the Mikado was sort of a signal light for them. Remember the name of the head of Murder Inc. was - The Lord High Executioner - Albert Anastasia. The Mob started the Las Vegas gambling thing with the founder of Murder Inc. Benny "Bugsy" Siegel.
The Fabulous Flamingo was a hotel and casino located on the Las Vegas Strip in Paradise, Nevada. The three founders of Murder Inc..were Lucky the boss and Lansky the accountant then there was "Bugsy". He was the killer for hire.

5/14/2020 05:38:35 pm

Speculation into the Prior Monikers for the Zodiac Killer
I just seen this question on line. "Was the character the Joker inspired by the Zodiac killer?"
https://www.quora.com/Was-the-character-the-Joker-inspired-by-the-Zodiac-killer
The better question to ask is - "Was the Zodiac killer inspired by the character the Joker?"
On August 4th 1969 the San Francisco Examiner received the 'Debut of Zodiac' letter, in which the cipher killer revealed his moniker "the Zodiac" for the first time. Before this date though he surly tried-out other names. And, while he struggled with establishing an identity he must have had several different alias.The Pre-Zodiac started with witnesses hearing him laugh. His codes and letters also mention laughter. His laugh is the clear signature that he - the Pre-Zodiac psychopath, and the media were trying to make apparent. Was there a push to get established his name to be the Joker? The Joker as a movie stand-alone character with no need of Batman. Just came out. It won many academy awards. Including best actor. For which Jaoquin Pheonix gave a great performance. The acceptance speech he gave was absolutly the best I have ever heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUllIT8rCj4

The TV show Batman came on to the scene in 1966. It was a campy California situation comedy filled with 50's surfer teeny-bopper music. With, the comic book super villian the Joker acting as the foil to the Batman. For which, he ran around the Batman - who wore tight fitting under-ware and was a super rich super hero. But the Joker out-witted cops and made crime seem like fun to kids.

~Bill

5/14/2020 08:23:15 pm

Not bad, but you are missing much.

5/15/2020 08:03:42 am

Thanks - Although - There is a lot more - However the most you can post at any one time is about three or four paragraphs so I have to do a bunch of juggling that I am not very good at. And this is all just a ton of speculation going off circumstantial evidence anyways. Even with that back peddle - we have to work with what we got. Which is a huge - old - over-saturated case of lies and cover jobs and copycats. What we have on our side is time and if we can manage - an open mind. Learning from Richard over the years. I have come to accept the things he preaches like not getting married to any one idea and never getting pinned down to any one suspect. Because the truth is we don't know who or what the Zodiac is. There's just a lot of possibilities.

5/14/2020 05:44:32 pm

Getting back to the main point though- the Pre-Zodiac guy and the possible push in the media to try to establish the moniker the Joker - as it is associated with the laughter. Here Richard points-out some of those laughs mentioned by media in news papers and magazine articles.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-laughing-killer

"This would be repeated in the Coronet Magazine in October 1973, where it described the following" - 'He held an automatic pistol on them, tied them securely with plastic-coated clothesline, and then stabbed them repeatedly, laughing hysterically as they thrashed and rolled in pain'. Also another article "the hooded monster began plunging the weapon repeatedly into first, the man, then, the girl, accompanying each thrust with a maniacal laugh." There are witnesses to other murders - hearing a killer laugh. "When he stabbed the girl he laughed in a frenzy. Hartnell had been stabbed 10 times with a thin 12-inch blade. Miss Shepard, whose writhing provoked her attacker to laughter, had been stabbed 24 times". Richard says " I agree the magazine and newspaper articles exhibit a degree of artistic license, although I did find it interesting that five would claim the same 'laughing' narrative".
The Joker may have been a name the media was trying to put on him (the Pre-Zodiac psycho). The Joker is a laughing joking serial killer with an ear to ear grin and a crazed laugh. There are some examples of Pre-Zodiac laughing. In this article "they could have caught me if they had done it right, instead of dashing around waiting for me to come out of cover. I like to died laughing". That last sentence was not his. The writer just inserted that. Showing their tell that there seemed to be a push by the San Francisco area papers to sell the Joker angle for Pre-Zodiac the laughing creep. Just like the comic book clown he would laugh manically.
What Pre-Zodiac seems to have wanted to be called would seem to be the Red Hood though. In the original Detective Comics from the '40s, the man who eventually became the Joker started out as the Red Hood. In his first appearance, he wore a red helmet and cape. However, when he robbed a chemical plant, he dove into a vat of chemicals to escape Batman, which disfigured him. He then took-on the moniker of the Joker. Comic books are most important for the origins of the Zodiac. They were everything to him. Starting out with the Red Mask. Then comes Red Ryder. These early comics were where the pre-Zodiac got his ideas.
https://www.techtimes.com/articles/35432/20150225/gotham-introduces-the-red-hood-red-herring-or-preview-of-things-to-come.htm

5/14/2020 06:03:31 pm

Pre-Zodiac may have thought that this was the method to make a name for himself. Starting-out as 'r h' for initials signing of the desk top poem. Red Hood - then - makes a miraculous escape from the blue meanies represented by Batman. Then get someone in the media to name him something like the Joker. Jaoquin Pheonix's movie "The Joker" is the best movie in years. His master piece indeed. It won him the best award any man can ever achieve "the Oscar for best Actor". It is proof that he is for one year the best man in the world. His speech he gave was the absolute best I've ever heard. The Joker is an amazing movie. It tells the story of painful truth - through the fictitious imaginings of a mentally ill man "the Joker". Criminally insane but not evil because he is driven to rage by a fascist society that ostracizes him and blames him - the victim of their marginalization of the "riff-raff". He then loses all control and starts killing people. Justifying his evil Richard Ramirez said - It's societies fault.
Could someone working in the cartoonish world of comics have been so obsessed with the Idea of creating a supervillian in real life. Then actually kill someone. And take advantage of some of the many cases that go unsolved. I'm saying this notion of the taking advantage is only so for him - in his eyes. We know it is not the case in reality. But, to a desperate craven - rage driven guy like this one described here - it may have been. The rage of the Zodiac which can be seen in his writings "Others shall be placed in cages + fed salt beef until they are gorged then I shall listen to their pleass for water and I shall laugh at them." This is that-Joker we are talking about. Though he was Red Hood in Pre-Zodiac times. As it could be analogis to him - just being an average criminal.
The Joker AKA The Red Hood first appeared in Detective Comics #168 (February 1951), in the story "The Man Behind The Red Hood!"... Driven insane by his reflection, he recreated himself as "the Joker" and became Batman's greatest foe. Batman: The Killing Joke Explained that Red Hood was inspired by 1951's Detective Comics #168, which showed that he was a criminal called The Red Hood (rh on desk top?) before becoming The Joker (Wikipedia).The big reasons why the Joker was a buzz in the media. Was probably for money and for fame and popularity. The magazines and comicbooks were everywhere then. The tv show "Batman" was the biggest thing for 1966 and for several years afterwards. The Joker was the star of the show played by Cesar Romero. They begged him to shave his mustache for the part but he never would.

THE JOKER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK6mDZGNjcg

Though this is all speculative. The fact that the comic book world for which the killer dwelt can not be ignored. To discover who he was requires us to analyze and understand the black and white nature of the Super Hero VS. Super Villain so prevalent in the world of comics.

5/14/2020 06:18:55 pm

The comic book character called "The Joker" is a super-villain created by Bill Finger, Bob Kane, and Jerry Robinson based off the actor Conrad Veidt's portrayal of Gwynplaine for the 1928 silent film "The Man Who Laughs" - These men (the founders of Red hood alias the Joker) were so incredibly impressed with the actors presentation for this disfigured man called Gwynplaine that they based their idea of the Joker/Red hood on him. The ghastly, facial disfigurement is scar on either cheek - that makes him appear to have the overly large grin. This is at the origin of the Joker according to the founders. The Joker is the ultimate Supervillian from the 1940 DC comic book's superhero Batman. He is horrifying. I am not saying the founders are the team Zodiac literally. Though I am saying that the killer - that later referred to himself as the Zodiac - took all he studied through comics and Detective magazines and fused all of that to make his grand entrance into the media. And, that - some in the media seemed to un/knowingly propagate that. Before and after The Zodiac's 1969 reign of terror. This oddly lines up. The Wheel of Doom is pointing to - by gun.

By Fire = Bill Finger
By Knife = Bob Kane
By Rope = Jerry Robinson
By Gun = Gwynplaine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(character)

This link to the silent movie "The Man Who Laughs" reminds me of Sandy the laughing boy in Lompoc 1963. Lompoc is the Native American word meaning Lagoon (He must always kill by a body of water) This Pre-Zodiac creep may have been trying to embody the identity of the Joker - by laughing for any of the witnesses left living - while stabbing to death a 63 year old man Vern C. Smith on 6/3/63. The following day the contention is that he the would shoot to death Bobby and Linda on the nearby Gaviota beach. As the Joker supervillian he fancy'd himself to be. He stacked their naked bodies posing them - just for laughs - quite apparently. This was Pre-Zodiac during his identity crisis name seeking younger days - ages 16-24. The rage that built in him. It may have began during his repressed 1950's ages 6-15. It is plausible that the killer began his reign of terror in 1962, with the murder of Ray Davis in Oceanside. Then only in 1969 would find his identity as The Zodiac (the enemy of drivers everywhere). This new identity could be more of a decoy than "The Laughing Killer." AKA Red Hood. Which he never was able to established. And, as it would be latter considered a copy cat to that of "The Black Dahlia Avenger". Since Elisabeth Short's corps was also left with the permanent grin of Gwynplaine's Glasgow Smile. Just like that of the Joker. These never ending smiles were originally made by street gangs in back alleys. Clearly on someone they wanted to shame to the world. Usually by the cutting of an extension on to the sides of a victims mouth. This is the secret to the Joker's strengths and weaknesses. That crack in his face may be the way to find the Zodiac. I don't mean that he was disfigured in the same exact way of course. But, that facial scar had a similar effect. Whether it was like Jaoquin Pheonix's cleft scar being partly the reason why he was chosen for the role of the Joker. Or some gaped tooth smile which caused the killer much psychological pain from the teasing of bully's in grade school. The oxymoronical thing is that - in the end - he turns the kids laughter around on them. And, he becomes the bully - that scary Joker with the hysterical grin - laughing back at them.

The End - Temporarily

Richard

5/15/2020 12:53:58 am

I think you've made your case BB really well. There is certainly nothing more I can add. Like I've said to other people BB, I won't make requests into articles because in the interests of fairness, if I cover this one, it's only fair I cover other requests from other contributors. You then set a precedent you cannot escape from. I once posted an article in the early days saying "post your article here", but I ended up with multiple requests from people wanting their ideas published. However, what I didn't consider was that your site just becomes a conduit for other peoples ideas and nothing to do with you. You, in effect, become a ghost writer, with many articles attributed to your site whether you agree with them or not. So it wasn't a good idea. Besides, there is only so much work you want to do. Your ideas are well presented and should stand on their own merit.

5/15/2020 08:22:05 am

Thanks Richard - You're still welcome to use this material any way needed. Do what you need to do to reveal the name of the Zodiac killer I have learned most of this stuff from you anyways.

Red Hood Detective Stories became Spring Heeled Jack pulp story of the 1880 time period was borrowed to create the Joker and Batman
https://comicbookhistorians.com/the-influence-of-pulp-fiction-on-the-golden-and-silver-age-of-comic-books/

The Joker has been Batman’s number one nemisis ever since his debut in Batman #1 spring of 1940, the dawn of the Golden Age of comics.
http://thegreatcomicbookheroes.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-jokers-first-appearance-in-batman-1.html

Detective Comics was an anthology comic featuring detective characters (both superhero and civilian). The longest-lasting character in Detective Comics was Batman: from the time of his debut (#27, May 1939), the Caped Crusader was almost always the star of the cover and lead story. https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Detective_Comics_Vol_1

Also Richard S. Prather wrote pulp fiction. Which is what the Detective magazines are anyway.
If you remember - one of his paperback novels was left on the seat of the cab in Oceanside.
in 1962 - killed was Ray Davis -- born 1933 age 29.

5/15/2020 11:18:54 am

The film Citizen Kane (released on May 1, 1941) is loosely based on Hearst's life.
BY Orson Welles - [Hearst Hated Him]
The following dates reveal the mission was undertaken at this time to create a boogie man.
These magazines are where the Hearst designer of the super-villain retrieved his ingredients.

Detective Story Magazine August 1941 - First use of the Zodiac cross hairs for a signature.

RED HOOD Detective Stories Magazine July 1941 - Name changes for this single issue?

RED MASK Detective Stories Magazine June 1941 - Up this date linking Red Mask/Red Hood.

https://www.google.com/search?q=RED+HOOD+Detective+Stories+Magazine+July+1941&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiC65yY_4PpAhWvBTQIHRmOAkIQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=RED+HOOD+Detective+Stories+Magazine+July+1941&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFCIxc8DWNWU4QNg3sDiA2gAcAB4AIABU4gB3wGSAQEzmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ei=y2SkXsLZMq-L0PEPmZyKkAQ&bih=655&biw=1240&client=opera

Detective Comics #168 (DC, 1951) The story of the Red Hood is divulged.
The Joker was introduced in issue #16 (April 1943)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman_(comic_book)

There were dozens of these DETECTIVE Magazines around at this time here are a few:

TEN DETECTIVE ACES Magazine
SPICEY DETECTIVE Magazine
DETECTIVE FICTION Magazine
ALL DETECTIVE Magazine
NATIONAL DETECTIVE Magazine
DIME DETECTIVE Magazine
COMPLETE DETECTIVE Magazine
DETECTIVE STORIES Magazine
TRUE CRIME DETECTIVE Magazine
BLACKBOOK DETECTIVE Magazine
PRIVATE DETECTIVE Magazine
PHANTOM DETECTIVE Magazine
RED STAR DETECTIVE Magazine
RED DIME DETECTIVE Magazine
MASTER DETECTIVE Magazine
TRUE DETECTIVE Magazine
UNCENSORED DETECTIVE Magazine
THE MASKED DETECTIVE Magazine
SUPER DETECTIVE COMIC/Magazine

https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Red_Hood_and_The_Outlaws_(Volume_1)_Issue_35

That chemical vapor-- it turned my hair green, my lips rouge-red, my skin chalk white! I look like an evil clown! What a joke on me!

— Joker

https://www.google.com/search?q=red+hood+detective&client=opera&hs=K1g&sxsrf=ALeKk037VF-Gj34t5vDxfB-QBcv7OUqTmQ:1587258062102&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=qkzBNArw0yGzqM%253A%252CRMcAHtWA5QV1XM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQJvdK3uwuv_943aWzkIHflnV6voA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjIhdWHpfPoAhXPi54KHZkRAUsQ9QEwF3oECAQQHA#imgrc=75SZtXaz1xbWhM

5/15/2020 01:56:47 pm

Detective Story Magazine August 1941

https://www.hipcomic.com/listing/detective-story-1941-aug-street-and-smith-pulp-vg/1957802

This is the Holy Grail - The issue with the Zodiac Killers signature.

~Bill

5/16/2020 10:34:36 am

Thank you.

5/15/2020 06:53:57 pm

"The Man Behind The Red Hood!" (1951) is a comic book story arc in the Batman and Detective Comics series. It features Batman and a few university students trying to crack a decade-old case. It features the earliest origin story for the Joker... Batman, Robin and the students discover that the "Red Hood" is in fact their old nemesis, the Joker. The Joker explains that years ago, he was a lab worker who decided to steal from the Monarch Playing Card Company. After being thwarted by Batman, however, he jumped into the chemical waste to escape. He survived, but was left with his trademark green hair, chalk white skin, and red lips. Driven insane by the accident, he dedicated his life to getting revenge on Batman. wikipedia

Could the Zodiac - before he conjured up the name Zodiac - have been seeking a super-villain moniker of his own? Such as "Red Hood"(rh?). If Pre-Zodiac was trying to become an actual super-villain. Then we need to just figure out what he was in reality. A boy. He was a very pissed-off boy. I'm not talking literally. Remember. This is comic book world psychology. In the beginning. Which it here was told in the short code in the z340 and is -- + 6 2 + -- which is apparently signifying the year he made his first kill. Oceanside 1962. There are a lot of Red Hoods. It is a gang starting with the Joker as the first Red Hood according to the instruction manual [DC comics] is their first member and gang leader.

"In their story "The Laughing Fish", the Joker is brazen enough to disfigure fish with a rictus grin, then expects to be granted a federal trademark on them, only to start killing the bureaucrats who try to explain to him that obtaining such a claim on a natural resource is legally impossible" wikipedia

Just like the Zodiac - he and the Joker are both - big on taunting the blue meanies. There is a bunch of things which compare the two. A lot for just a coincidence. The key is the descriptive "red". The linking of the Red Mask as Red Hood and the dates May to June to July to Aug. 1941. Will we ever know who or what the truth is? If you need a little certainty. Bet on the Red Hood. It's as good a guess as any.

The End ---

Richard

5/16/2020 11:00:29 am

I reckon you could have released a book on Kindle BB. I bet your eyes have gone a bit "red" after staring at your computer for that length of time. Cheers for sharing.

5/16/2020 02:01:20 pm

It took me a whole month to put together so I thought about a book. But, then I remembered my goal was always just to find the slob's name. Really, it's there. We just got to figure-out more details to exactly pin it down.

5/16/2020 11:06:35 am

RED MASK Detective Stories Magazine May 1941

https://www.google.com/search?q=RED+HOOD+Detective+Stories+Magazine+July+1941&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwiC65yY_4PpAhWvBTQIHRmOAkIQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=RED+HOOD+Detective+Stories+Magazine+July+1941&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQDFCIxc8DWNWU4QNg3sDiA2gAcAB4AIABU4gB3wGSAQEzmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWc&sclient=img&ei=y2SkXsLZMq-L0PEPmZyKkAQ&bih=655&biw=1240&client=opera#imgrc=Vd3u05hDOcobhM

~Bill

5/16/2020 12:10:49 pm

There is much information, and many good concepts captured. Thank you again for your post.

5/16/2020 11:54:30 am

Yes LOL!!! Thanks

5/16/2020 12:04:15 pm

If his name/s ain't here

1 James DC Phillips
2 Don L Cheney
3 Randy Hearst
4 David Wally "Red" Ott

it has to be on this page

https://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?t=210

5/16/2020 01:42:37 pm

The two greatest movies are

1 - of all time - Citizen Kane - a pseudonym for Hearst

2 - currently - The Joker - the original super villain & metaphor for Hearst

~Bill

5/16/2020 02:05:21 pm

BB, again great info, although I am not a member of the site referenced 2 posts above. There is quite a bit of reference text that I need to parse. It will take a bit of time.

5/16/2020 03:23:16 pm

No problem Bill. If we are in a relay. I gave my best try at his moniker - thinking that may help. Now it's on you.

All I ask is you give it your best effort. And if you discover the killers name.

Then tell us. The curiosity is killing me.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/16/2020 08:01:38 pm

I've found an interesting letter , from 1980 , Richard .

Handwritten , with all the usual Zodiac syntax , in capital letters , plus candlestick '' i 's ''. But , exceptionally neatly accomplished .

Postmarked July 11th 1980 , from Represa , CA , which is the usual one for Folsom State Prison , on outskirts of Sacramento .

Addressed to : Chief of Police in Fairbanks , Alaska , the letter is a declaration with regard to Senator Edward Kennedy's Chappaquiddick incident .

Refer : Ronald Wilson Reagan FBI File 1 , Page 58 & 61 .

Richard

5/17/2020 01:53:22 am

A much more organized structure with exaggerated C's and brackets. Certainly another one to file into the bigger picture Rubislaw. Although on first glance looks nothing like Zodiac, I am less concerned about handwriting as this is easily altered, moreover finding other letters that may tie this one with a particular individual, group or timeline. Thanks for the reference.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/17/2020 03:14:37 am

Indeed , very '' neat and tidy '' and , if the Zodiac , it would have been '' pre-prepared '' , and not something '' on the hoof '' , as the Nova Scotia letter of August 29th 1974 seems to be ( ? ) .

Strange though , the choice of Fairbanks , Alaska Chief of Police , as recipient ( ? ) .

'' Core motive '' for me , is related to the desertion of a woman in distress , so the whole Chappaquiddick scandal , is always going to ring bells .

5/17/2020 07:57:26 am

Rubislaw 32
Don't forget what they said about two-birds one-stone. The Alaska deal was where the speaker Hale Boggs - he was eliminated October 16, 1972. He was the House majority leader - next in line for the presidency if Nixon was found complicit. Which he was - but Creep got to him first. And they put in-charge Dick Cheney to manage dumb-dumb Ford. The other bird was congressman Nick Begich, of Alaska, they disappeared while flying in Alaska.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/17/2020 12:21:27 pm

Thanks BB , I'll have a look into that in more detail .

There is always some context with these correspondences , but sometimes difficult to figure .

These hoaxers usually have an axe to grind - though sometimes just have a need to show of their '' then '' current affairs knowledge .

Burying hoax-like items , was quite fashionable in Victorian times . The thrill of someone years ahead uncovering something that might baffle the finder . But , one wonders if Victorians ever took the time to think that those who did the burying , would probably long be dead , when a find was uncovered .

This seems a bit baffling with some of these hoaxers - that they would probably never be around to hear how it panned out for the FBI , for example . Usually , its about 35 years before agencies , like the FBI are legally bound to publish certain information ( ? ) .

Richard

5/17/2020 12:58:39 pm

Just to add to the red angle in a strange way, bearing in mind Hartnell's attacker told them that he had just escaped a Colorado prison in the police report. In Aug 1964, two years prior to Riverside, a threatening letter arrived at the office of Vern Byers, threatening to throw a hand grenade from the audience at a Beatles gig at the Red Rocks Ampitheater in Jefferson, Coloado. The FBI vault, Part 9, pages 2-14. Nothing major, just another threatening letter I thought you may be interested in.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/19/2020 07:16:29 am

'' The Zodiac is going to throw a hand grenade instead of Jelly Babies '' ( ? ) .

Jelly Babies a quintessential British confection going back to Victorian times .Formally known as '' Peace Babies '' , but renamed by their manufacturers '' Bassetts '' , in 1953 .Sold widely in Australia , also .

A tradition , since 1963 , to throw Jelly Babies at the Beatles , by adoring female fans , since it was known that they were the favourite sweet / candy of Beatle , George Harrison .

Word got out , naturally , in the USA , whose equally adoring female fans started to throw Jelly Beans at The Beatles , instead of unavailable Jelly Babies .

So , a distinctly British cultural angle on the grenade threat ( ? ) .

Interesting .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/19/2020 07:33:10 am

'' The Zodiac is going to change the way of committing murders....''

October 12th 1970 .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/18/2020 04:01:11 am

Thanks for the tip-off RIchard , I've been meaning to look at the Beatles / Lennon files , but there is quite a lot of it , and one wonders to what extent , the Zodiac as a hoaxer , and pre- Bay area in particular , would be drawn ( ? ) .

Hoaxers , as '' purist '' ones , just seem to want to be a part of a big news story....so , with the Beatles , there is much to consider . The '' we are bigger than Jesus '' scandal , a case in point .

Undoubtedly , the Zodiac admired John Lennon and , together with Groucho Marx and Herb Caen , probably the three living people that he admired the most .

Walter Cronkite , possibly a fourth .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/18/2020 04:26:20 am

....when one comes to think about it , the four I have mentioned , were all men of words ( ? ) . This was admiration '' for the long haul '' . A few individuals would '' come and go '' , but be worthy of attention , at a given time .

'' We are all players who make our entrances and exits ...'' - so wrote William Shakespeare .

And then....there was always Steve McQueen - the '' King of Cool ''.

Cars.

Rubislaw 32 link

5/18/2020 12:51:10 pm

Interesting BB , in what you said about Nixon's claim about setting a bear trap for Ted Kennedy , over Chappaquiddick .

I'm not sure what he mean't , but Kennedy was certainly a political enemy of Republicans who , were always out to get Kennedy as a political foe .

With plea bargaining , it seems not just about pleading guilty , at the given time , of facing a full trial .For serial killers , it can be about accepting culpability for crimes / murders for which they are not charged on a '' first wave '' prosecution basis , if you will .

It seems , at least , that the prosecution , behind closed doors put forward further cases , to the defence , that they , the prosecution intend to lay against the defendant , if the defendant's defence are not prepared to react , one way or another . With , in return , realistically , the carrot of the '' guilty '' defendant being able to settle down to a quiet life. albeit behind bars .The deal might include , for instance , that the defendant is never allowed to talk about the extra case or cases , to anyone except the families of victims , through a legal representative . Ted K , being a case in point , of a plea bargaining deal struck .

So , it is still very important that Zodiac cases ( probably ) such as the Bay area murders , are '' tidied up '' in a legal sense , so that they can be offered as '' good candidates '' for plea bargaining purposes .

If alive , and arrested , it is , in theory possible that the Zodiac could simply plead not guilty to anything and everything . But , it would be probable also then , that the Zodiac would be attending court , the proverbial '' every day '' , for the rest of his life .

5/20/2020 03:34:52 pm

Teddy Bear

Rubislaw 32 link

5/21/2020 08:10:42 am

Oh I see ,a pun ! - Yes .

There is a fascinating interview with Richard Nixon , where he discuses the '' three '' Kennedy brothers .

Jack was the Statesman ; Bobby the Preacher , and Teddy the true politician (warts and all ? ).

I think that Nixon was inferring that he , Nixon , needed to have his wits about him , with Teddy ( ? ) .

When Nixon was truly relaxed , who could be a very interesting person to listen too .It has always seemed to me that his weakness was a chip on his shoulder , about not having had the benefits of a '' high social '' upbringing .

Despite many believing that Nixon disgraced the office of President , there are good grounds for believing that he was an excellent Vice-President , behind the scenes , for Ike Eisenhower .

Rubislaw 32 link

5/21/2020 12:27:00 pm

A favourite Nixon story was when Nixon and his then Chief of Staff , Bob Haldeman , were discussing newspaper editors , the day after Nixon had given his daughter Tricia away in marriage , with a White House celebration , for which the press had been less than kind .

On discussing one editor , in particular :

Nixon : '' Is he Jewish ? ''

Haldeman : '' I don't know - he doesn't look it . ''

( Neither did Sammy Davis Jr. look Jewish .)

5/23/2020 04:07:56 pm

Sammy Davis Jr. and Robert Blake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HNWhVXcjV8

So many tangential connections to the Zodiac

Blake's "In Cold Blood" by Truman Capote was about a massacre of a family on November 15, 1959 Daliday

The woman his character murdered was named Bonnie coincidentally just like his murdered wife.

5/28/2020 06:35:24 pm

Richard - I just found this post - (The Red Hood is an idea that was uncovered over 17 years ago by Howard Davis!!!)

By Howard Davis (Howard) (host-66-81-28-178.rev.o1.com - 66.81.28.178) on Sunday, February 16, 2003 - 11:27 pm:

Ed,

Don't forget the Red Hood and his college crime,with BM teaching there,etc.RH is then transformed into the Joker after his 'death' and then,eventually, sends codes to the police and commits crimes under the signs of the Zodiac!
They were called the Zodiac crimes.
Do we have the young mystical thinking Zodiac signing off as r h (and Z in '67) or Red Hood,in reference to his college crime,only later ,like the Red Hood,he resurfaces as the Zodiac(Joker to be sure,but he did send jester cards with dark and cryptic sayings, including lame attempts at joking in his missives) committing crimes as the Zodiac and sending codes to the authorities,etc.
I have been told that there was no Red Hood until much later.Wrong!
Good work,as always,on BM findings.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/mba/gzd/312.html

Richard

5/29/2020 12:23:25 am

And of course, there was The Mikado too.

5/30/2020 12:57:19 pm

Richard - I did not catch what you were referring to about the Mikado.

Howard Davis discovered the link to Red Hood/The Joker and 1966 [BM] CJB's father the Bates Man/Batman TV show and the link to the laughing serial killer the THE JOKER.
Put together with the laughing at Lompoc and at Lake Berryessa - linked by the hog- tie of victims in a secluded area next to water with the Gaviota park couple killed. The bookends of the 29 year old cab drivers exactly 90 months apart both killed by a shot to the back of the head and left in well-to-do neighborhoods.Then LB and BRS killings were not done for sport. These were done for cover or perhaps revenge. This reveals motive.

Richard

5/30/2020 03:17:23 pm

My bad. It was a character subsequent to the Zodiac crimes.
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/mikado/4005-30280/

5/28/2020 07:59:39 pm

Howard says that Bruce Davis was mixed up in this Zodiac case.

I saw a video of the Bruce Davis's Zodiac Car - a Chevy Corvair - on YouTube.

Manson did live for some time in an abandoned home of Hearst in Topica Canyon.

The home was called the spiral staircase house and was demolished in 1968.

It was named that - because it was used in the old movie "The Spiral Staircase".

5/31/2020 03:50:29 pm

Oops - Topanga Canyon

6/2/2020 10:34:09 am

Need to make a big movie about this Red Hood link to the Zodiac

Comments are closed.

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