THE ANSWER TO THE MOUNT DIABLO CODE

6/7/2020

The problem with solving the Zodiac Killer's 32 Symbol cipher and Phillips 66 Map code, is a failure to follow the instructions given by the killer in the June 26th 1970 letter and its follow up on July 26th 1970. The Zodiac Killer stated "The map coupled with this code will tell you where the bomb is set. You have untill next Fall to dig it up". This tells us that the solution to the 32 symbol cipher will not supply us with the exact position of the supposed bomb. Any solution to this 32 character code pinpointing the exact position of the bomb will be incorrect, because this can only be realized by coupling it with the map. Therefore, the position of the bomb to be set, was a combination of both code and map.

In his following letter he stated "P.S. The Mt. Diablo code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians". This tells you that the code is about radians and inches but not necessarily the entire solution. Any solution to the position of the bomb that doesn't use radians and inches (as implicitly stated by the killer) will be wrong. The phrase "P.S. The Mt. Diablo code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians" would supply the inches value, hence the hashtag before inches, along with the arrow beneath, instructing us to insert a value here. This isn't rocket science - the hashtag is widely recognized as a number sign, so by placing this immediately before the word "inches", the Zodiac Killer is telling us to insert a number before inches. The only way to find a bomb in Northern California using his instructions, is to travel a set amount of radians around his crosshairs, and then subtend a set amount of inches from it. In this case, a number of radians around Mount Diablo and a number of inches from it. Placing a hashtag and arrow before the word "inches", is rather a giveaway that a number value should precede it. Even the map code was 6.4 miles to the inch. Any solution that gives us the answer in degrees or miles is wrong, because "The Mt. Diablo code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians". We need to follow his instructions. This is why any theory of crime scene locations being chosen because they are separated by a radian or near radian value, is wrong also. The whole premise of the June 26th 1970 letter was to discover the location of his bomb, not measure angles between crime scenes or any other object we choose to construct or imagine

The Zodiac Killer gave us crosshairs superimposed over Mount Diablo with an arrow pointer set in the north facing position, "to be set to Mag. N". He allocated it a zero position, with a 3, 6 and 9 in the form of a clock face around its circumference. This was to instruct us to travel clockwise around the circumference of the crosshairs, to be set at 17 degrees (which was the magnetic north value in 1970). We had to travel a set amount of radians around his crosshairs over Mount Diablo, in addition to this value of 17 degrees. So, we are looking for a set amount of inches and a set amount of radians. The Zodiac Killer was incapable of keeping secrets and resisting putting pen to paper, so just one month later he gave us the answer, when the July 26th 1970 letter arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle.

Never done before or since by the Zodiac Killer, he drew a big fat zero around the circumference of his crosshairs with SFPD alongside it. This represented the San Francisco Police Department. This bold, black circle sat at 246.2 degrees, which is 4 radians and magnetic north. This was the radian component of "The Mt. Diablo code concerns Radians + # inches along the radians". The answer was 4 radians. All we had to do now was find the "inches" value.

The Zodiac Killer mailed virtually every correspondence to the San Francisco Chronicle, describing the makeup of his bomb on November 9th 1969. He followed this up with a diagram of a school bus and photoelectric cells on April 20th 1970, referencing the murder of San Francisco police officer Brian McDonnell on February 16th 1970, who suffered devastating and sadly fatal injuries two months earlier, when a bomb packed with fence staples exploded on an outside ledge of Park Police Station in the Upper Haight neighborhood of San Francisco. The Zodiac wrote about the "blast" he was going to have when he mailed the Dragon card on April 28th 1970. All of these communications directed towards the San Francisco Chronicle indicating he was constructing a bomb, with the SFPD attribution totaling zero adorning many. Therefore, it's pretty obvious that placing SFPD around the circumference of his crosshairs, next to a big fat zero and set to a value of 4 radians and magnetic north (4 X 57.3 + 17), indicates that the target for the bomb is San Francisco - or more specifically - the San Francisco Police Department. When the above crosshairs are set over Mount Diablo, we now have to travel 4 radians and magnetic north from the peak of the mountain. Let us now find the inches value to be inserted into "Radians and # inches along the radians".

We actually don't have to look hard to find the answer. The land mass and geography of San Francisco is such, that only 5 inches can fall over it. Using the map scale of 6.4 miles to the inch, anything less than 5 inches, and anything more than 5 inches, doesn't fall inside San Francisco. Therefore, there is only one answer. The same applies to the radians value. Anything more or less than 4 radians and magnetic north (such as 5 radians and magnetic north, or 3 radians and magnetic north), doesn't fall inside the geography of San Francisco. A bomb threat on San Francisco (hence SFPD=0), can only be 4 radians and magnetic north, and 5 inches along that radian value. The choice of words by the Zodiac Killer when he wrote "Radians and # inches along the radians". were chosen carefully. We were instructed to find "radians", and an amount of "inches" along the amount of "radians" we found. Once we found the radians value, we would travel 5 inches along that radian. The answer to the map was the magnetic north value of 17 degrees, to be coupled with four radians and five inches of the code. The two "coupled" together gave us the full answer. Druzer, an avid Zodiac researcher, came up with a solution to the 32 character code which I believe is correct, when he suggested Estimate: four radians and five inches. This solution not only satisfies the 32 characters, but correlates three plaintext letters to the only three repeating ciphertext characters in the code, thereby providing a perfectly valid key. See The Blast Estimate of Zodiac, The Blast Estimate of Zodiac (Part Two). and The Blast Estimate of Zodiac (Part Three).

The map scale is 6.4 miles to the inch. This gives us a distance of 6.4 multiplied by 5 (inches). Therefore, the bomb was to be set at 4 radians and magnetic north, and 32 miles from the peak of Mount Diablo. The only San Francisco Police Department that comes anywhere close is Ingleside Police Station. This San Francisco Police Department sits at 30.96 miles from the peak of Mount Diablo (4.84 inches). It also sits at 251 degrees from the peak of Mount Diablo (4.08 radians).

The Zodiac Killer gave us a rough guide of 4 radians and magnetic north, and 5 inches (hence the word "estimate"). If he had given us the exact measurement, it would have been 4.08 radians and 4.84 inches, He was clearly giving us an approximate measurement. Since Ingleside Police Station was the only San Francisco Police Department anywhere close to these measurements, it's fairly obvious this was his target. The Zodiac Killer's distance in miles was 96.8% accurate. His angular accuracy in degrees was 98.0%. The Zodiac Killer was very unlikely to have selected a specific target that fell on an exact whole number of radians and inches.

The Zodiac Killer was targeting Ingleside Police Station for his bomb, but clearly he wasn't going to start digging a hole on the lawn of Ingleside Police Station. The Zodiac Killer also threatened to blow up a school bus on April 20th 1970, in which he drew us a diagram with a steep embankment on the right, with the sun rising to the east. This would suggest we should be looking for a bus route traveling from north to south (where the sun rises to the east in the morning), with a steep embankment to the right of the bus, where the Zodiac Killer can lay his photoelectric cells and conceal his bomb. He also has to access that roadway from a position of anonymity, with his vehicle parked at the top of the embankment in relative seclusion. What are the odds of that location being the exact closest portion of road to Ingleside Police Station, meeting all the criteria above. This would satisfy the drawing on the April 20th 1970 letter and the target of SFPD (Ingleside Police Station). The Zodiac Killer could metaphorically kill two birds with one stone.

So let us travel just 274 feet from Ingleside Police Station to the nearest section of road heading north to south.

Again, what are the chances that the area highlighted by the red rectangle would mimic exactly his bomb diagram of a school bus and embankment, as drawn in the April 20th 1970 letter. Not only that, but this would have been a school bus route in 1970. Children from the northern and eastern areas of San Francisco would use the school bus to reach St Thomas More Catholic School at 50 Thomas More Way. There is even a bus route road sign 38 feet from the proposed location of the bomb (whether it existed in 1970 I don't know). So, let us drop down to the exact position of the red rectangle and take a closer look.

All the Zodiac Killer had to do to access the embankment, was to access the parking lot of the City College of San Francisco and drive to its eastern edge - and at night - in relative anonymity to the police station, dig the bomb into the embankment. It is highly unlikely that the Zodiac Killer ever intended to plant a bomb, but this location fits all the criteria of targeting both a San Francisco Police Department and a school bus at the same time. It achieves his objective of targeting school children for maximum terror, and achieves his objective of "rubbing the pigs nozes in their booboos". The location of the bomb not only matches the diagram from April 20th 1970, but satisfies the criteria of the Mount Diablo map and code to an overall accuracy of 97.5%. The 32 character cipher is also answered. The Zodiac Killer likely had no intention of laying this bomb, but it was the threat that mattered most of all. The Zodiac Killer knew that the clues he provided us with on June 26th 1970 were inadequate in cracking the bomb location and code, so he gave us these additional clues in the Little List letter on July 26th 1970, one month later.

# Radian values are normally measured in a counter-clockwise direction, but the positioning of the bold, black circle at 246 degrees (4 radians and magnetic north), along with the north facing arrow pointer, the addition of the clock face set at zero, and the instructions to "set to Mag. N.", appears to indicate the Zodiac Killer measured his radians from the north position clockwise. In effect, he was multiplying the radian value of 57.3 by a factor of 4, set to magnetic north of 17 degrees (246.2).

It has been stated on this site and elsewhere, that the 32 character code is unsolvable using conventional cipher techniques without the killer supplying us with a key. There are 29 unique characters within the code, making any solution practically unprovable. The solutions offered by using the 408 and 340 keys have produced less than convincing results, particularly when we consider that this code contains an "anchor" and "omega" symbol, not used in the 408 and 340 ciphers. Attempting to correlate the letters used in the code to written text in both the Button letter (June 26th 1970) and Little List letter (July 26th 1970) also produces negative results. Therefore, it could be argued, that a code containing 29 unique characters must have an alternative meaning, in accompaniment to the code solution of "estimate:four radians and five inches". Here is one possibility.

The Zodiac Killer gave us an estimate of 4 radians, but the exact figure is 4.084 radians. That is, 4.084 multiplied by one radian value (57.3 degrees) to equal 234 degrees. When we add in the magnetic north which Zodiac instructed us to do (17 degrees in 1970), we get 251 degrees and the precise location of the Southern Freeway embankment and Ingleside Police Station. Could the 32 character code contain the value of 234 degrees, which once set to magnetic north, now identified the exact location of Ingleside Police Station? If we resort to basic numerology where A=1, B=2, C=3 etc, and add up the values of the forward facing alphabetical characters in the Zodiac Killer's 32 character code, we arrive at a total of 234 (or 234 degrees). When set to magnetic north, it gives us the value of 251 degrees, which when subtended from the peak of Mount Diablo passes directly over Ingleside Police Station and the Southern Freeway.

"The map (set to 17 degrees magnetic north) coupled with the code of 234 will tell you where the bomb is set".

shawn

6/8/2020 08:50:52 am

I just want to document an observation I made in regards to the Phillips 66 bus bomb letter and bomb design put forth in earlier communication.

In a AP news archive footage dated 10/22/1969 which I guess is in response to 10/13/1969 Stine letter of "Picking off kiddies".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lseQW6yRI8

Shows police following school buses with high cliffs along the roads mostly at the beginning.

The only school shown in the footage is "Bermice H. PHILLIPS" elementary which is located in Napa. (At 1:05)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lseQW6yRI8

Makes me wonder if Zodiac watched this news footage and may have influence his bus bomb design and inspired him to use the use the Phillips 66 map. (in reference to the school name shown in the news footage).

Shawn

6/8/2020 08:54:09 am

Correction "Berdice H. Phillips" school

Richard

6/8/2020 09:31:29 am

Well obviously Shawn, if I believed the target was or could have been somewhere close to Berdice H. Phillips School, I wouldn't have written the above article, but I certainly share the avenue your question probes. What would have inspired Zodiac to choose Ingleside, or Berdice H. Phillips School, had this been his choice of target. The police, school children and buses seemed flavour of the month to a threatening Zodiac, who probably never intended following through on any of these modes of terror. Did he select his "suggested" targets based on TV footage or newspaper inches? Or did he just pluck them out randomly? When presented with several police stations, several schools or several school routes, which one does he choose? As you suggested, was it purely driven by news coverage, or some perceived injustice by individuals connected to these sites or locations. But certainly, the Zodiac often responded to the things he read or saw, and was usually visible in his next correspondence. So if something triggered Zodiac to attack Ingleside PD, or Berdice H. Phillips School, I would always look to the news coverage in the weeks prior and work backwards. That is how Cragle discovered the inspiration for the 2001 Happy New Year card.

Richard

6/8/2020 09:42:02 am

I would however, expect the attack Zodiac wanted us to perceive for his Mount Diablo code and bomb, wouldn't have fell outside of school children or police. This would drive maximum terror into law enforcement and the wider population, effectively the bulk of Zodiac's communications post Paul Stine. How do you up the ante on murder - mass murder by picking kiddies off - or threatening a bombing campaign.

Richard

6/9/2020 01:25:55 am

In essence Shawn, it isn't the isolated reasoning in the article that convinces me. You add the number 5 to "Radians and # inches along the radians" to get "Radians and 5 inches along the radians" (32 character code). You add "Paradice and Slaves" in cruciform into the 340 cipher (the characters marry up 17 by 17). You add "By Fire, By Gun, By Knife, By Rope, Paradice and Slaves" into the Z38 on the December 7th 1969 Fairfield letter. You add "Death By Fire, By Gun, By Knife, By Rope" to the December 16th 1969 Fairfield letter". You add "Fk, I'm crackproof" to the 13 character code". Every solution given through 3 consecutive communications in the exact words of Zodiac. Furthermore, not one word travels from one line to the next. So, it isn't about one particular code, it's about a running theme, all answered from July 26th to October 27th 1970. The Zodiac had an overall theme of paradice, slaves, afterlife, crucifix, Celtic Cross, with "By Fire, By Gun, By Knife, By Rope, Paradice and Slaves" present in three codes and the Halloween card cryptic message, including "sorry no cipher" in cross form.

Richard

6/9/2020 01:40:07 am

I know the majority (if not all) disagree with my analysis. We all have to decide what we believe to be correct. Everybody has to come to their own conclusions about what is correct or likely.

~Bil

6/9/2020 08:11:37 am

Is everyone on board whether that bomb illustration will "work" as drawn?

~Bill

Richard

6/9/2020 08:32:05 am

I cannot speak for others Bill, but from my standpoint it would work perfectly. It's a pretty basic bomb that could function as stated. Unfortunately, this bomb could never have functioned as Zodiac described alongside a road because the photoelectric cell cannot discriminate between a school bus, coach, lorry, or any other tall vehicle. So in the field it would have been totally useless, unless primed by remote control from distance. But yes, the bomb design would work as drawn.

~Bill link

6/9/2020 08:35:17 am

Maybe "P.S." stands for "Paul Stine". Target "Zero" is San Francisco, Paul Stine's 13th victim "status". Mt. Diablo is from the killers perspective. He is probably familiar with it. Maybe camping in State Park or something like that. Its a thought.

~Bill

7/8/2020 02:32:19 pm

Richard

If you had to pick 12 killed Zodiac victims which would they be?

Richard

6/9/2020 08:53:06 am

I don't think it's any coincidence that Officer Richard Radetich was gunned down on June 19th 1970, to which Zodiac inferred he was the responsible just one week later. Combine the Zodiac Killer's reference in his April 20th 1970 letter to the bombing of Park Police Station which killed Officer Brian McDonnell, to the mailing of the Dragon card with a Don Quixote picture (whose statue sits in Golden Gate Park near the police station), with the newspaper coverage of the murder of Officer Radetich (who previously worked at Ingleside PD) - and what do we get - a Zodiac Killer focused on the police and the bombing of a San Francisco Police Department. Imagine the press coverage if he targeted school children under their noses. Do we consider the target of the bomb in the Mount Diablo map, in combination with the rest of the letter's content?

~Bill

6/9/2020 09:32:16 am

You know, thinking about it, it is very hard to imagine the same person drawing this and the Z340. This drawing looks like something a 2nd grader might draw. Hard to know for sure.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 09:45:00 am

Hey Richard, I was just thinking. Probably the reason most people have a hard time accepting bates as a canonical crime is that they are overlooking that Bates "IS" the different MO. The other crimes are committed from "hate". Bates is committed from a "broken heart".

~Bill

Richard

6/9/2020 10:00:30 am

Also we have to consider the overtly sexual tone of the Confession letter (if the killer) and the intense glorification of the murder.

~Bill

6/9/2020 10:10:22 am

Of course. Also, Bates/Shepard, by knife. Dripping pen "bloody knife". Bates/Shepard is "sexual". He is connected to these 2 girls. Riverside College. Each of these girls will have knowingly or unknowingly have come into contact with this individual. Need those diaries lol.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 10:25:04 am

BTW, the "Military" are well "aware" of declination diagrams.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 10:42:36 am

THATS where his "MO" changes. IMO.

~Bill

Shawn

6/9/2020 11:09:09 am

“ Unfortunately, this bomb could never have functioned as Zodiac described alongside a road because the photoelectric cell cannot discriminate between a school bus, coach, lorry, or any other tall vehicle“

In the U.S. the sun generally rises in the east and sets in the West.

Plus the days are shorter during winter school session (sun low on horizon) vs fall and spring. (Higher on horizon)

So the sensors would need to be put on the correct sun facing hillside depended on time of year and spaced correctly apart to detect taller vehicles. The timing of buses taking children to school or bringing home and where the sun is the sky must be considered also.

~Bill

6/9/2020 11:29:01 am

~Bill

6/9/2020 12:42:03 pm

I think maybe it is supposed to be another "sarcastic joke". I'm not completely sure though.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 12:55:47 pm

Hey Richard/Rubislaw32, "Here Comes The Sun" is also gold standard!

~Bill

6/10/2020 11:48:40 am

The Blue Meanies are a fictional army of fierce though buffoonish music-hating beings and the main antagonists in the surreal 1968 Beatles cartoon film Yellow Submarine. Wikipedia

The Zodiac writer/s lived in the cartoon world. They fancied themselves to be a single creature. A super villain. But that character only existed as a fictional being. A mythical devil.

In reality there was no master criminal. There was however a group
of corrupted men - some 4 or so in number as a guess. Hired by a rich benefactor possibly Randolph Hearst. Providing the cover and the power otherwise known as money to carry out the making of a super villain. To interest people - to buy newspapers. So we would read about the bogey man. These terrorists in this case - closely worked with cops over many years. Long enough to develop an understanding of which cops were dirty and which were not. They would just need to dangle money on a string like a carrot for a rabbit.
The cozy relationships were formed back in the 20's & 30's during Prohibition. This was a time for Hoover to take over. His public killing of John Dillinger made him a hero. Thanks to newspaper dramatics. J. Edgar Hoovers Uncle Herbert was also liked by -
"William Randolph Hearst, owner and publisher of the Hearst newspapers in a signed editorial article appearing in the New York American today asserts that "Herbert Hoover is by far the best and most popular candidate that the Republican party can nominate." VIEW FULL ARTICLE IN TIMESMACHINE "

You scratch my back - I'll scratch yours deal.
That's the whole thing with the Zodiac too.
In essence we've been fooled.
The Zodiac is a creation of by and for the
newspapers. With the help of a few dirty cops.
The names will never be known.
We can only guess. They hold the power.
And, they ain't telling.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 01:17:14 pm

Well , I have heard that the '' scale '' is a bit dodgy .

Apparently the mirror would have had to be the size of an average billboard , to even function for a sensory purpose . Let alone , any discriminatory facility .

I don't think that there ever was a real bomb , involved in his threat . But there was a puzzle offered , with an imaginary bomb , that had a real solution....to that imaginary bomb .

Shawn

6/9/2020 01:34:52 pm

Would be nice to find a similar working solar switch device (not necessarily a bomb) in a comic book or book that Zodiac might have copied the design from.

Sounds like something from a Dick Tracy comic.

Such as the Tim Holt reference in the Halloween card.

~Bill

6/9/2020 01:59:43 pm

Hey, sorry to get completely off topic, but order of "Stine" events was more than likely: Going to Wash/Maple, Last minute "Robbery" threat. Has Stine pull up a block but the killer should already have his wallet. Stine would shut the vehicle off and hand back the keys. When the killer takes the keys, he would then "point blank" him. It would look like a robbery, it would give Z time by taking the wallet first, then the keys, then the shirt, then the wipedown. Its just speculation though.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:05:55 pm

I mean to get into The Presidio from the "back".

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 02:09:50 pm

You could well be right , Shawn . Seems like it has more derivation to material comic-related . Unlikely to have been straight out of an '' Anarchist's cookbook '' ( ? ) .

My personal take , Bill , is that '' Dig it '' is a clue . The last song from the Beatles newly re-leased album , at that time , called '' Let it be '' .

'' Dig it '' was a tirade , of sorts , against the FBI and CIA ( by John Lennon , naturally ) .

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:16:25 pm

Nice toon though :)

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 02:23:07 pm

Beatles '' Let it be '' release date : May 8th 1970

The Zodiac's Bomb Cipher : June 26th 1970

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:25:52 pm

BTW Rubislaw32, you appeared fast lol like a rabbit out of a hat.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:34:13 pm

The "Let It Be" album "quadrant design" does resemble the Z340.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:37:06 pm

John Lennon "by Gun"

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 02:40:53 pm

The four quadrants do reveal a cross .

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:43:04 pm

Indeed.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 02:36:38 pm

Just think that '' Bombs '' were part of the Zodiac's fantasy world , Bill .

Simply a puzzle to be solved .

Had it not been for the Zodiac's actual killing , he might have been quite likeable ( ? ) .

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:38:02 pm

Bet.

~Bill

6/9/2020 02:53:47 pm

Lot of meaning in just the words "Let It Be".

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 03:01:54 pm

Yes , '' Laissez faire '' . Pacifying ( ? ) .But not for the Zodiac .

~Bill

6/9/2020 03:16:26 pm

Maybe "The Beatles" may be "broken" but the Z340 will not?

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 03:26:40 pm

I call it the Zodiac's Humpty Dumpty . He did a perfectly good job of cipher making - then bust it up , naively believe that this was the way to make it more difficult to solve .

~Bill

6/9/2020 04:03:39 pm

Yep. Back to "The Bloody Reddit Barron".

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 05:42:54 pm

Maybe the album cover quadrants each represent one of the "Fab Four". 1st quadrant, "Here" as in Here Come 'Ol Flat Top. Is there a song reference to the other "Beatles" in any other quadrant that you know of?

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 06:01:13 pm

Anything along the lines of them being more "popular than Jesus?"

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 06:14:08 pm

I haven't seen anything in the FBI Files , so far . Richard found a '' cut and paste '' threatening to throw '' Jelly Babies '' ( Jelly Beans ) at the Beatles , instead of a grenade .

That's it so far .

~Bill

6/9/2020 06:21:55 pm

If there is a connection to "bigger than Jesus", then i would think your guy would be "traditional" country/western possibly, with Religious (in his own way) beliefs.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 06:01:58 pm

You know there was a good "Paul is dead" hoax.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 06:08:10 pm

Paul Stine also i mean.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 06:09:27 pm

Sorry, lol, I mean both a "Paul McCartney" is dead "hoax" and a "Paul Stine is dead "fact".

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 06:23:29 pm

Nothing on the '' Paul is dead '' hoax about Sir Paul . It's really about establishing what probably '' floated Zodiac's boat '' , at a given time .

I think that assassinations and public service corruption , were '' big '' to him , as a hoaxer .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 07:08:06 pm

March 4th 1966 , Maureen Cleave writing about the Beatles , in an article in London's The Evening Standard , which included excerpts from an interview with John Lennon , the previous month :

'' Christianity will go . I needn't argue about that . I'm right and I'll be proved right . We're more popular than Jesus now . I don't know which will go first Rock 'n Roll or Christianity . Jesus was alright , but his disciples were thick and ordinary . It's them twisting things , that ruins it for me . ''

Apparently , this article didn't have much of a reaction in Britain , but when it surfaced in the USA , '' all hell broke loose '' .

A miracle that Lennon lived to 40 ( ? ) ....some might say .

Nixon hated Lennon , and tried to dream up all sorts of ways of expelling him from American soil .

~Bill

6/9/2020 07:10:16 pm

If the "Bigger than Jesus" angle is played, your guy will be "traditional" probably more country/western with the childhood western comics indicators.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 07:21:11 pm

He is very "excessive" in the anger, sarcasm, and religion. It is "compulsive" in my opinion.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 07:38:59 pm

Hey Rubislaw32, was there any evidence of one of the letters having a "previously used" stamp affixed to it? I mean like a previously posted stamp, removed from an envelope, and adhered to one of his "confirmed" communications? Just curious.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 07:40:27 pm

And do you have any idea if Cheri Jo Bates was wearing any jewelry that might be missing?

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 07:48:07 pm

Well , it does seem now , that the FBI might have played some '' jiggery pokery '' with stamps and postmarks .

The Pines Card was a pre-dated envelope , and could have actually arrived at its destination , at any time . And , the postage stamp on the envelope of the 2001 New Years Card , looks pristine .

Just two examples .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 07:41:57 pm

I agree Bill . Lennon had a need to speak his mind . And we see a bit of that in the Zodiac .

Lennon was put in a position , when only 5 , to decide on which parent that he wanted to live with , after they split up . He went with his father , because his mother was a '' Good Time '' girl . But his father was a merchant seaman , and often away . So Lennon ended up with his aunt , Mimi . Then , as a teenager , he started seeing his mother again , and realized that they were much alike . But , this was not to last , when she was tragically killed in a road accident .

Lennon was '' damaged '' , and I think that the Zodiac was also .

~Bill

6/9/2020 07:50:37 pm

I also see "damage" but i think it might stem from "rejection" or "loneliness". lol not so "self-assured". Anyway, just thinking out loud.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:02:26 pm

Personally, i'm thinking also Bates rejection, but I am just speculating.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:04:40 pm

Another "Lonely Heart" for sure.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 08:09:09 pm

I'm convinced that you are right . I think his life was pretty good , up to his teens . Being a probable '' book worm '' suggests that lack of intimate friends was '' OK '' with him . But , something happened ,that rocked his sense of mental stability . He was smart enough , to get on in life , but the pain inside kept coming back to haunt him .

And , it seems to have '' surfaced '' in a most extreme way , during his Bay area spell of living and working .

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:14:33 pm

During his most "forming" years, he would have been "lacking" in the looks department. He would have been "hiding" and "covering" up, especially at the "young social" years. He probably felt "odd". He had only a just a couple of very close friends who he felt "understood" him.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:16:45 pm

Just like the "Groucho" disguise.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:18:46 pm

He feels "humor" from his disguises. IMO.

~Bill

Cyber link

7/23/2020 10:11:52 am

"Being a probable ''book worm ' suggests that lack of intimate friends was '' OK '' with him ." Yet another cliché.
Intellectual doesn't mean asocial. Besides, Zodiac's writing style suggests rather a low level of schooling and lack of higher culture, nothing of a "book worm".

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:15:00 pm

But he would have tried to fit in with "everyone".

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:27:49 pm

Don't you think that Z340 has a whole "linear" swastica feel to it? I mean with the straight line borders, quadrants, "fold lines" and "center pivot" focus ( ? )

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:29:05 pm

Na. Me Neither. Sorry bout that.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 08:33:09 pm

I think he set it out well , to start with , and then just shuffled it , too much . Probably as individual pieces of paper , on a dining table .

A fast learner , but no substitute for experience .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 08:27:59 pm

Good points . He could probably fit in with a crowd . But it was that ''intimacy '' thing , that seemed to find him out , as a bit strange to most . And , I think he started to acquire a sense of rejection , sometimes before it even actually happened .

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:31:49 pm

Right. He would have been "exceptionally" shy. He would have been awkward around girls his age. He over compensated to fit in. He became a "joker" of sorts to fit in with everyone I think.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 08:40:47 pm

Yes , whatever individuality that he may have possessed , probably didn't resonate with most . There is also a ''sheep mentality '' with many , and it's finding that balance , that tends to make for '' attractive personalities '' . The Zodiac just couldn't find the key .

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:44:17 pm

You bet Rubislaw32.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:45:59 pm

Or "You Bet Your Life" lol

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:47:12 pm

It wasn't until the "Military" until every thing was "equal".

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:47:56 pm

Socially i mean.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:51:09 pm

Hell of a way to get "balanced". Getting dropped off on the other side of the world with an M16 and a magazine.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 08:53:49 pm

I wonder how many times he would attend a gathering , and see his fellow males attaching themselves to a girl , with the Zodiac finding that all he had to look forward to , was a good book to read , when he got home ( ? ) .

~Bill

6/9/2020 08:57:08 pm

( ? )

Swat link

7/23/2020 10:19:13 am

"...see his fellow males attaching themselves to a girl ..."
That "girl" obssession in commentaries may suggest that the commenters themselves project their subconsciously felt frustrations on Zodiac's persona, to explain his odd behavior.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 09:02:14 pm

Well ,it must of got him down . I think he married a foreign language European girl .

Less trouble , to start with ( ? ) .

~Bill

6/9/2020 09:33:24 pm

I'm not sure, but anyway "Come Together" lyrics on Anthology are "Two Jew Eyeballs" and "Ono Sideburns". Very odd.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 10:09:21 pm

I have to give "The Walrus" a listen "Walrus Gumboots" ;)

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/9/2020 10:13:13 pm

If the case is officially solved , I think that Hollywood would have another go at it .

With a bit more , from the Zodiac's perspective , himself .

It would be an interesting soundtrack , to accompany the film .

~Bill

6/9/2020 10:17:40 pm

By "triangulation" he is the "Walrus". IMO.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 10:31:15 pm

I think people should have put a "soundtrack" to "silent films" and letters quite a while ago.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 10:45:31 pm

Paul's "untimely" death.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 11:42:54 pm

"Revolution" on the "Love" album is a cool choice i think also.

~Bill

~Bill

6/9/2020 11:50:35 pm

Although I really do prefer the single.

~Bill

~Bill

6/10/2020 12:12:23 am

Jesus lol how many "jokers" are there? lol

~Bill

~Bill

6/10/2020 12:13:33 am

In those "songs" i mean.

~Bill

~Bill

6/10/2020 12:29:37 am

And again with the "Gold Standard" of "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band (Reprise). It really is best while viewing the Halloween card. See ya.

~Bill

~Bill

6/10/2020 12:38:19 am

Or Helter Skelter works too lol

~Bill

~Bill

6/10/2020 10:56:36 am

By the way, "triangulation" is concerning "perspectives" and 1 and 1 and 1 "perspective". It is a 3 way mirror.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/10/2020 11:27:32 am

That's an interesting concept , Bill . And , triangulation has emerged in philosophical ideas and notions , with possible applications to the deeds of the Zodiac .

To be honest , those mostly seem to pertain to geographic considerations . But the crux of what we are covering , as many links to the work of Lewis Carroll and '' Alice through the looking Glass '' , in particular .

Back to where we are , with the '' all is not what it appears to be '' and , precisely the sort of pleasure gained , by these compulsive hoaxers .

A possible solution to be derived , if only we could be on the other side of the looking glass , looking outwards .

And , not so different from the ''magic'' required to solve the Zodiac's ciphers . Lewis was Charles Dodgeson , the mathematician . Edgar Allan Poe , a keen amateur cryptographer . Don Harden a crossword puzzle addict .Uncovering and accident are not often the coincidence and accident that they might appear to be , on first inspection . Usually , there is a '' gift '' involved . And that gift is more usually 90% hard honest graft .

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:06:30 am

Rubislaw32, right on. Sir Paul!

Rubislaw 32 link

6/10/2020 07:02:51 am

I think you are right about the Revolution single . Those few seconds , at the start , mark the dawning of Rock music . Though its longevity was the fusion of English traditional Folk music and American Blues .

I believe that Groucho Marx was a big influence on the Zodiac , and suggests that he was a keen listener of the radio , while growing up , in the fifties , in particular . With a book in hand , which he could always put down , when he wanted to , for a keener ear to the many half-hours of humour , on the radio .

In fact , I would go so far as suggesting that , into adulthood , and with moustache , he might be mistaken for Marx , which he found complimentary . Even giving up cigarettes , in favour of cigars , to '' complete the picture '' .

~Bill

6/10/2020 07:49:34 am

Yes, Rubislaw32, like I have always said "The Walrus". Don't really know about the cigars though.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/10/2020 08:24:52 am

Oh yes , and I can't make it any more plainer than that '' The Walrus '' was the answer to Dr.Marsh's challenge .

'' Man , you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe .''

Within the context of the lyrics , itself , The Walrus was Paul ; The Eggman was Eric Burden , and the Eggmen were actually the suited men of the FBI .

But it was an art form , and Lennon always told journalists to go figure the lyrics out , for themselves .An illusionist is always reluctant to reveal his magic secrets . And , so it is the case , with most great artists .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/10/2020 12:16:27 pm

And , if a further possible reminder from the Zodiac , in his letter of November 21st 1969 , with cryptogram , to the San Jose P.D. and in the knowledge that it would be passed on to the FBI :

O - 1 , FBI - 0

( The Eggman - one , The Eggmen - nil )

In answer to Dr.Marsh's challenge , on October 22nd 1969 .

The extra reminder ? And , a further clue to the Zodiac's '' duplicitous '' living arrangements , perhaps .

The '' scenic route '' of Highway 101 .

Do you know the way to San Jose ? ( 1968 ) :

'' L.A. is a great big freeway , put a hundred down and buy a car . In a week , or maybe two , they'll make you a star . ''

( Burt Bacharach and Hal David )

6/10/2020 04:42:57 pm

The Blue Meanies Chief

Paul Angelis (18 January 1932 – 19 March 2009) was an English actor and writer, best known for his role as PC Bruce Bannerman in the BBC police series Z-Cars. Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Angelis

~Bill

6/11/2020 04:08:57 am

Rubislaw, "I Am The Walrus" (Take 16) is near "perfect". "A Day In The Life" (Take 7) is nice also.

~Your Secret Pal

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:03:52 am

Perfect.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 06:10:51 am

It does indeed seem difficult to believe that someone like the Zodiac , wouldn't like the wordiness and opera of a concept , like the Sergeant Pepper's album .

Reddit is becoming a side-show for the bear-baiting of a man claiming that he is not Tom Voigt , and doesn't care for the non-suspect status of late humanitarion , Richard Gaikowski .

I thought that dealing with the concept of the Zodiac , alone , was painful enough .

But , watching Mr.Voigt being tortured , and torturing himself , breaks new ground , in horror viewing , on the internet scene .

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:21:28 am

Anyone wanna tackle Kryptos? ;)

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 06:37:22 am

It's certainly an interesting concept , Bill .

I think it's really a celebration of the Alphabet . But any opinions would be good to hear .

I find that the grid systems conceptional art-work of Carl Andre , very persuasive , as an influence on the presentations of the Zodiac's 408 and 340 ciphers .

Any takers , there ?

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:38:41 am

Maybe another "time" and we can "Dig It". :)

P.S./S.P.

6/11/2020 02:56:34 pm

PS

a night watchman who asked that his name not be used, passed along word to Stiltz in a telephone call to The Examiner; "There is a definite link between the codes sent to the three newspapers. I have found that link. I have also isolated 18 symbols.

a night watchman is typically a Police Sergeant

6/11/2020 03:20:38 pm

The Krypteia were an ancient Greek secret police

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 06:56:46 am

I'm off to mow the lawn .

I'll figure it out , on a 20 rows and 17 columns basis .

It does seem apparent that Hubert Horatio Humphrey received more hoaxing and extortion , than anyone in history ( ? ) .

No wonder '' LBJ '' quit from running for President for another term .

I think his wife just laid it on the line , that no son's mother , and their friends , would ever vote for him again ( ? ) .

~Bill

6/11/2020 07:15:06 am

Lol. Ok, now I am "sure" about the cigars, lol.

~Peace

~Bill

6/11/2020 07:17:41 am

Oh, and one more "take" "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band" (Reprise, of course)

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 07:49:29 am

The common expression employed at that time , for '' HHH '' was :

'' Dump the Hump ''

I have found one or two Zodiac candidates for the hoaxing .

There are similarities , in what is happening at the Zodiac Reddit site . '' Dump the Hump '' could be considered a slogan , of description ( ? ) . Or. even :

'' Park the Snark ''

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 09:22:31 am

Here's an interesting one from Senator Hubert Humphrey ' s second Presidential campaign , in 1972 .

A note received , with a card , in an envelope , by J Edgar Hoover , from Philadelphia . PA . , explaining that the card was handed out ,on April 2nd 1972 , by a young man with a moustache , at a hotel .

We are allowed access to view the note , signed '' Happy Hunting '' , and the envelope . But , not the actual card that was supposedly handed out .

Could it all be , from one and the same person ?

Of interest , perhaps , is the envelope , addressed to J Edgar Hoover .

I'm sure I've seen the '' R's '' employed in '' Edgar '' and '' Hoover '' , before .

The '' R's '' have a long and looping '' front leg '' .

Do they twig with any writing , from the Zodiac , to anyone ?

Ref : Hubert Humphrey FBI File 28 , Pages 51,52,53 .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 01:53:32 pm

On September 30th 1968 , the Hanford Sentinel newspaper , received a typed letter , and anonymously ,postmarked Hanford , CA . , and dated Sept .28th .

'' I'm gonna kill Humphrey . So you'd better hide him cause if I find him I'll kill him . To hell with Humphrey . ''

'' I'm gonna ''
'' you'd better ''
'' I'll kill ''
'' hell ''

...these are words and expressions , familiar with the Zodiac and , for such a short message , could easily be him ( ? ) .

It certainly seems as if the extortionist drove to Hanford , simply to mail the typed threat .

Ref : Hubert Humphrey FBI File 22 , Page 66 .

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:16:23 pm

Did anyone consider the North, East, West, South reference on the "DIABLO" map might be NEWS ( ? )

The whole case is "Through The Looking Glass" and "Humpty Dumpty". Putting back all the pieces together. It is broken. Out of order and out of time, just like "The Beatles". "The Beatles" were "broken". Society is broken. You can hear the "audience" in the "news". It "echos" through emotion Across The Universe. That is "The Code" of "Life" and it IS broken. In the right "time", with the right "audience" the "band" will.play again. It is just a matter of "Time".

~Your Secret Pal

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:23:04 pm

By the way, the "cover" of the "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club band is full of abstract detail.

6/15/2020 06:24:18 pm

The album "cover" of the "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club band has a picture of English occultist Aleister Crowley at top of it.

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:24:27 pm

"again" with the "kicking" of Edgar Allen Poe. Lol. He would definitely be a member of my "Lonely Hearts Club Band".

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:28:01 pm

So would "Lewis Carroll" :)

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:43:14 pm

By the way they both have January "Birthdays" and there goes that "Walrus" again.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:46:26 pm

I am well familiar with "that" band. BTW, anyone home?

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:54:03 pm

I like the "Looking Glass" reflection also. So I guess, if you have all of these people "within" you, who do you want to be? I love the "Looking Glass" "ties" also. Nice touch.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 06:22:34 pm

And , of course , Lennon revealed that '' The Walrus was Paul '' , in the song , '' Glass Onion '' , on the Beatles White Album .

And , it was quite well known , in Rock circles , that Eric Burdon had an egg fetish , and hired consenting naked ladies to perform lewd acts , with eggs , for his pleasure .

No doubt , this would have appealed to the schoolboy side of John Lennon's humour ( ? ) .

~Bill

6/11/2020 05:56:38 pm

I'll check back after a quick listen of the Gold Standard.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:02:58 pm

They are "all Stars" definitely :)

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 06:14:19 pm

I hear you Bill , and I understand when you talk about a '' broken society '' , in that second half of the sixties , in particular . The Beatles referred to it , as '' destruction '' .

It seems to have been a '' crazy '' time , albeit an exciting time , also .Just reading the FBI files , one can't help feeling that it came down to the liberation of the youth , and that they finally had a voice that was heard . But . it didn't mean that they would get their way .just because their opinions were now acknowledged .

With Edgar Allan Poe , and nearing the end of his productive life , as a poet and writer , he seemed to receive a lot of flak over his interest in cryptography . Many , including his so-called friends thought he was wasting his time , and should just stick to writing . So , that's probably the reality of Lennon's line , about Poe . But , it seems that the Zodiac employed the line , quite cleverly , with regard to Dr.Marsh and the FBI's Cryptanalysis Unit .

Acknowledged that many will have their own opinions on the Bomb Cipher ( Z32 ) . Mine is essentially , the combination of the Beatles '' Dig it '' song , with the local plans , that autumn , to entertain the San Francisco 49 'ers , as the new home team , at Candlestick Park , by digging up the old turf , and replacing it with Astro Turf .

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:36:39 pm

"Destruction" "Armageddon" "Helter Skelter". These clues in these songs were put here for a reason.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:19:41 pm

"I Just Had To Look, Having Read The Book" is the "Looking Glass" (mirror) and (book). It is viewing history, and repeats of history. Echos.

~B

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:24:39 pm

No idea, but that's as good as I've heard yet. I'm gonna take another look at that cipher.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:37:26 pm

They think "The Beatles" are the 4 Horsemen Of The Apocolypse.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 06:53:02 pm

It's astonishing really , that the Zodiac was caught up , in all these '' goings on '' , and still played out his twisted terror games....and still received some newspaper space , for doing it .

That second part of 1969 , must have been one of the busiest times , in western culture , let alone American history....let alone California's history , ever .

There was even the beginnings of a series of unofficial industrial and public sector strikes , which emanated from California , and almost produced a General Strike , by March of 1970 .

Nixon , only just seeing the worst coming , and managed to appease the major unions , in time , Admitting afterwards , that he had rather taken his eye of the ball , at home , when focusing his initial attention on setting up the foundations , in foreign policy , to eventually pull out of Vietnam .

So , stiff competition , for the Zodiac ( ? ) .

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:38:10 pm

And that "John Lennon" is "Jesus"

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:45:21 pm

Speaking of "mirrors" Even Lewis Carroll chose that name for the double "r" double "l". He could have chosen anything.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:47:19 pm

They are going to "crucify" Him.and start Armageddon. In their perspective in my opinion.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 07:03:22 pm

Well ,it has been observed before , that the coming of the phenomenon that was the Beatles , arrived in the USA , just at the moment that many Americans were getting over JFK's assassination . So ,these young men represented a new music and sense of optimism for the future .

They certainly played their part , in a side attraction of entertainment , and contributed to the art and culture of that exciting time . A time when California really became the epicentre of the world . Where '' The Happening '' took place .

No surprise then ( ? ) , that California became an attractive proposition to the Zodiac .

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:49:37 pm

I think these "jokers" are "playing" The Beatles.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:51:39 pm

And jokers "wild" lol

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 06:58:17 pm

I understand the Carrollation. (Sorry about that) They think they have figured out the clues of The Beatles "Code". That killing John Lennon will start Armageddon. They think he is the "Anti-Christ".

~Bill

6/11/2020 07:05:31 pm

"Imagine" is nice.

~Bill

6/11/2020 07:10:30 pm

And Rubislaw32, don't forget "For What It's Worth". Buffalo Springfield. It is a good movie.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 07:29:19 pm

'' Carrollation '' is a pun , that the Zodiac would have been proud of , himself ( lol ) .

'' Much stirrings '' in the Middle-East , in that 20 years , between Lennon's death , and 911 ( ? ) .

Oh the irony of the 2001 New Years Card , which could well have been a '' coming of age '' for the Zodiac , with respect to Kubrick's '' Space Odyssey ''piece of art ( ? ) .

The reality of 911 , was just a few months away .

~Bill

6/11/2020 07:45:02 pm

I'll take a "look" since i "read" the "book".

~Bill

6/11/2020 07:55:36 pm

That "card" and "envelope" have the same character feel. Hate. It is "excessive". He is a "citizen" blended in with society. The irony is there. It "looks" like "The Walrus".(Take 16 again lol)

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:09:55 pm

The "back stroke" on the letters. The "r' s. IMO.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 08:01:22 pm

I read '' The Walrus and the Carpenter '' last night , and one realizes that they were both a couple of frauds .

They enticed the oysters to come take a walk with them , and then proceeded to eat them .

Zodiac and his motorcar ( ? ) ....again .

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:13:17 pm

I read that book a long time ago. I can't remember how it went.

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:20:54 pm

Refresh my memory if you wouldn't mind.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:33:54 pm

They are acting out these songs as "theater".

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:36:46 pm

And I will just "guess" Shakespeare.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 08:44:35 pm

'' The sun was shining on the sea ; shining with all its might....''

As told to Alice , by Tweedledum and Tweedledee .

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:24:55 pm

"Mr K." "Being for the benefit of Mr. Kite" "Mirrored" "K"

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:27:25 pm

How he "challenged" the world.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:42:18 pm

Benefit

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:51:19 pm

Smart and diabolical. Sharp.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:54:31 pm

I mean "clever". Sorry.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:11:19 pm

The "r"s are very open. "Lazy".

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 08:49:40 pm

I realize that '' Glass Onion '' answers a few questions . Whether it did , beyond who the Walrus was , for the Zodiac , I don't know .

The fool on the hill ?

'' Fixing a hole in the ocean , trying to make a dove-tail joint....''

~Bill

6/11/2020 08:58:43 pm

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise) and while looking at the Halloween card. (Old times sake).

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 09:06:12 pm

Well , I've got the Zodiac down , for opening the Z340 , with a cryptic clue to '' Golden Slumbers '' ( from Abbey Road ) . So , that's another song , possibly .

And , the May 1978 '' Channel 9 '' letter , has a few .

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:21:38 pm

Toward the beginning of "Glass Onion" the lyrics are I told we were close as can be, and The Walrus was Sir Paul. That means "I Am The Walrus" (Take 16)

I'll keep listening.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:23:15 pm

1 and 1 and 1 is three, and I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together. Also "Come Together, over me"

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 10:43:42 pm

Nice spot on the '' Come Together '' link .

Naturally , '' You never give me your money '' is the showpiece for the Channel 9 letter , and pinched from Charlie Manson's ranch door .
''....all good children go to heaven . ''....and with the Anaheim postmark , we are into Disneyland , and an inferred threat that the Zodiac will steal people's children .

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:32:07 pm

And i am telling you if "I" know this, then he can also "know" this.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:27:45 pm

Hey take easy, I'm gonna catch some "Z"s.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:44:50 pm

"I Am The Walrus" (Take 16) and "Come Together" is my 3 perspectives, then reason that he is not "so hard to see". I AM looking in a "mirror".

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:47:30 pm

Sorry "so hard to see" for you.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:49:34 pm

"Through The Looking Glass" i mean.

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 10:56:53 pm

"Walrus Gumboots" indeed. :)

~Bill

~Bill

6/11/2020 11:43:34 pm

Just as an after thought, if I am he, as you are he, as you are me, and we are all together, then we're the same. You are looking for me, I am looking for you, He is hiding from "us" by hiding among "us". If I am looking "through" the mirror, and "see" him, then you just have to look at me. In fact, even in a "mirror". All equal. It is a "barrier". You must look through it. There you will see all 3 of Us. Like I always said, "The Walrus".

Rubislaw 32 link

6/11/2020 11:10:48 pm

....and we have Sharon Tate's Yorkshire Terrier , Prudence , named after Mia Farrow's sister , and immortalised in the Lennon penned '' Dear Prudence '' .

In Lennon's words , at the end of Revolution No.9 :

'' Christ , I've got blisters on my fingers ! ''

~Bill

6/12/2020 05:22:45 am

Hey guys, Good Morning. I woke up thinking about the allegorical dance of perspective with lyrics, if "i am he, and you are he, and you are me, and we are all together,, then we are all "Alice" also. And we are in "Wonderland". To get to the bottom of Carroll, and Poe, and Lennon, is infinite. It is "genius". You man just have to look through is I suppose.

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 05:29:41 am

And also "Within You". Sorry, had to throw that in there.

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 05:23:26 am

That's what They see.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 06:35:00 am

Lennon playing a '' stormer '' for the Zodiac :

Two of us ( Zodiac and his car ) :

'' Two of us sending postcards , writing letters....you and me burning matches , lifting latches....you and me Sunday driving , not arriving..''

In addition , Why don't we do it in the road ? :

'' No one will be watching us , why don't we do it in the road ? ''

~Bill

6/12/2020 06:39:35 am

It looks like it.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 06:49:55 am

....and , controversially , '' Bungalow Bill '' ( ? ) :

'' Hey Bungalow Bill , what did you kill ? , Bungalow Bill .''

( Bungalow , in the vernacular = Nothing upstairs )

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 06:54:00 am

Boston Bill Grant , of course , whose Cordelia Road property , at Fairfield , that '' Peeked through the Pines '' , was a large L-shaped bungalow .

~Bill

6/12/2020 06:54:44 am

Maybe ; )

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 07:15:53 am

The Zodiac realizing that , after Blue Rock Springs , and if his murder campaign was to continue , he only had one gun remaining .

Best start procuring an image , as a '' knife man '' ( ? ) .

The threat of the gun , at Lake Berryessa , but not required .

But , after Presidio Heights , guns were '' all used up '' .

Contributing to his depression , in December 1969 , culminating with his letter to Melvin Belli .

The Zodiac , as a potent terrorist , now felt emasculated ( ? ) .

The moral of the story ? :

'' Happiness is a warm gun....bang , bang , shoot , shoot..''

Or even :

'' A pen*s is a warm gun .''

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:24:31 am

All you need is Love.

~Bukk

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:33:59 am

Lol sorry for the typo on the name, "glitch" in the Matrix.

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:23:59 am

The Berryessa attack is acting "Theater". Shoot me refers to Paul Stine.

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:36:33 am

"Theater" in the style of Shakespeare or a "I am the Walrus" promo video.

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:43:32 am

Are They taking a "Magical Mystery Tour" ( ? )

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:48:11 am

;)

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:48:46 am

You know "Hearst" lobbied against "rolling up".

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 08:43:09 am

You mean hashish , weed ?

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 07:51:05 am

Most certainly , Bill...for , as Shakespeare observed : '' We are all players , and have our entrances and exits .''

Much of it , in the Zodiac's mind , at that early stage of his creation , after the murder of Darlene Ferrin ....for , it does seem that in acknowledging that Bryan and Cecelia genuinely didn't know who he was , nonetheless flummoxed him , somewhat .

Even , at that late September 1969 time , not that many did know about him , apart from locals of the Vallejo vicinity , and regular newspaper readers....who took him for a '' short-term nut '' , soon to be arrested .

~Bill

6/12/2020 07:59:01 am

That's the "feeling" i get. See you guys later.

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 08:02:09 am

"early warning" I mean.

~Bill

~Bill

6/12/2020 09:31:54 am

By the way, my initial "listen" is that the "Yellow Submarine" is the "school bus". He is referencing "his" school bus, the "Magic Bus". John Lennon "wrote" the lyrics "Come Together" for Timothy Leary. Just an afterthought.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 10:36:59 am

Could very well be , Bill . With thoughts of taking the kiddies on a '' Magical Mystery Tour '' ( ? ) .

Well , Hollywood didn't miss a trick , there , as a featured segment in the film '' Dirty Harry '' . In fact , Scorpio's hijacking of a school bus , provided the culmination of Harry's attempts to gun him down for being caught red-handed , in a dastardly deed . And , none more dastardly , than abducting and threatening the lives of children .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 09:28:08 am

Duplicity abounds ( ? ) :

A denial , on record , by way of sarcastic admission that Mr.Voigt is '' Doctor Fauci '' :

'' Doctor Fauci '' : '' Have it your fantasy way , yes '' DoCtOr FaUcI iS ThOm VoIgHt ''

This to add to Mr.Voigt's claim that the daughter of Destry Hines committed suicide , and that Mr.Voigt was not complicit in the Burger Chef Promo hoax , to '' celebrate '' the 50th anniversary of the Zodiac attack at Lake Berryessa .

~Bill

6/12/2020 09:33:43 am

Shakespearean Theater indeed.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 10:44:14 am

Agreed . Like Caliban , in The Tempest - son of the witch , Sycorax .

Half human , half monster .

Tom1

6/12/2020 12:37:53 pm

Another "random" thought. What if our friend realized he had been spotted at the site of the Stine shooting, and made the threats against school buses as a way to intimidate the young witnesses to remain silent?

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 05:27:34 pm

Certainly possible , Tom 1

Immediately after the murder of Paul Stine , his correspondence gave reference to : '' Schoolchildren make nice targets ,I think I'll wipe out a school bus...'' .

So , the vulnerability of minors , and how they would emotively resonate with the authorities had come to him , probably aware that he had been watched by minors , at Stine's crime scene .

But , I would suggest that the subject matter , as a general threat , didn't really carry momentum with the Zodiac , till later on , as really a reminder of his legacy , left behind . Albeit , still posing as a specific type of threat , that the authorities could never dismiss , and take lightly ...as opposed to being a bomb maker , for which the authorities would no longer take him seriously .

In May 1978 , '' All good children go to heaven '' , and the inference of Disneyland .

In March 1981 , '' I'll try to kill children , because they are easy to pick off ...''

In October 1987 , '' ...my death machine , looking for some kiddies to run over ...''

So ,the sporadic threats to children became a '' calling card '' , of a sort , but also indicated that the Zodiac was now , well away from the action of those Bay area days , when he first brought up the subject of targeting children , specifically .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/12/2020 05:47:03 pm

And perhaps , quite ironic that memory had served the Zodiac poorly , in that '' Death Machine '' had been a term that the Zodiac had originally employed for his claimed bomb .

But now , all those years later , in 1987 , the Zodiac was employing the term , to describe his car , for the purposes of harming children .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/13/2020 07:25:53 am

Just on a point of the content of that May 1978 letter which , undoubtedly employs two Beatles songs , at least , as subliminal messages :

'' Piggies '' and '' Hey Jude '' .

'' Hey Jude '' with reference to Manson clan member , Susan Atkins .

'' Hey Jude '' had been written by Paul McCartney , with Lennon's son Julian , in mind . As a reassurance that Julian would not be ignored , and remain loved , in spite of his parents , John and Cynthia separating .

Perhaps a song resonating with the Zodiac , at that time ( ? ) . I would be confident that the Zodiac intended to mail the May 1978 letter , within the confines of the Disneyland Park , to be sure that the authorities understood the subliminal element of his threat .For , there appears to be evidence that the Zodiac gained pleasure from the '' delayed reaction '' and '' the penny finally dropping '' elements to his cat and mouse deeds , with the authorities .

The reality , for the Zodiac , at that 1978 time , was one of unhappiness , and someone who saw reasserting his former glories , as a means of comfort , now in a time of personal sadness .

What would the Zodiac have been doing , hanging around a park designed to entertain children , on his own ( ? ) , if he didn't risk being noticed for standing out in the crowd .

Seems like the Zodiac , would have been at Disneyland....with children of his own .

.....and to come....how about the Zodiac c/w children , at Disneyworld , Orlando , Florida.....one year later ( ? ) .

Exciting stuff ( ? ) .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/13/2020 11:04:43 am

Well ,well , well...

Which famous man of the 20th Century , was the Zodiac's real Achilles Heel ?

Friend to many famous politicians and Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II , who bestowed a knighthood upon him .

Here's another clue for you all :

Jim Bakker claimed that he was '' The Greatest since Jesus '' , and even visited Mr.Bakker , when he was serving time in prison ( lol ) .

Coming soon .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/13/2020 11:46:18 am

Cor Blimey . I'm even seeing '' evidence '' of the Zodiac , going back as recently as May 27th 2009 .

I think that would knock out all the '' Usual Suspects '' ( ? ) .

As '' The Balloon Captain '' told me , himself :

'' I find it amusing that so many people are convinced of he guilt of a handful of imbeciles . ''

But , it has to be said that '' The Balloon Captain '' was later exposed as a hoaxer , by Pleasant Hill P.D. and the FBI .

Where is The Balloon Captain , now ?

Rubislaw 32 link

6/13/2020 12:19:59 pm

What ever happened to the other fraud , Jim Bakker ?

Apparently , he's still around , and wants you to survive the apocalypse .

How best do we do that ?

Mr.Bakker thinks that we should buy one of his cabins , in the Ozark Mountains . And , if we get thirsty , then Mr.Bakker thinks that we should pick up a six-pack of his Extreme Survival Warfare Water .

Cost ?

A refreshing $150 .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/14/2020 12:32:56 pm

The cat's out of the bag , on the basis of interpretation , but a start perhaps , with two visits to Florida in 1979 , from a man who was very angry with Rev.Billy Graham .

And it didn't seem to end there....but for now , refer zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net , with the thread : Rev.Billy Graham - The Zodiac's Devil ? .

For those who simply wish to examine :

Billy Graham FBI File 2 : Page 14 , and then Pages 19 and 20 .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 06:58:35 am

I'm about to cover another '' Billy Graham '' letter , Richard , and it is already ( rightly or wrongly ) becoming apparent to me , that the appropriate authorities ( ...more likely , special agents of the CA DOJ...) had told Graham , of threats against him , from the Zodiac .

I believe that some politicians , such as Nixon and Humphrey , knew of similar threats to themselves , but , as politicians seeking high office , this would not be overly surprising to them , and the Zodiac would not be the only person known to certain politicians , that posed a threat . For , instance , the case of Arthur Bremer who attempted to take the life of Governor George Wallace , was known to the FBI and secret services , as potentially dangerous to a ''handful '' of politicians .

But ,it has got me thinking about Clint Eastwood , again , and I think that , bearing in mind that it took the FBI sixteen years to '' feed '' the 1990 Celebrity Cipher to Lyndon Lafferty , then it seems apparent that the Cryptanalysis Unit were just '' too sold '' on the notion that the solution to the cipher , as a workable puzzle , was ( wrongly ) Clint Eastwood , the actor .

And , similar to Graham , I think that Eastwood would have been informed that the Zodiac '' might '' have his eyes on him .

The first 13 characters of the Celebrity Cipher text are presented :

( Five ) , ( Eight )

CLINT , EASTWOOD ....( ? )

HARRY , CALLAHAN.....( ? )

And both , no doubt incorrect , but it sidelined the Cryptanalysis Unit , for too long , eventually feeding the unsolved cipher , to Lafferty , via the Vallejo P.D. , out of desperation .

At a quiet time , I am going to attempt to '' falsely solve '' the Celebrity Cipher , accepting like the FBI , that Eastwood was the solution....and see what other problems the Cryptanalysis Unit came upon .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 12:10:09 pm

Hey....and Clint Eastwood's formative upbringing in Oakland , CA . , makes a '' half-baked '' solve of the Celebrity Cipher , a whole lot easier , with the '' telegraphed for suckers '' Oakland , CA address seeming to appear , in the cipher text .

And ,even for the '' professional '' Cryptanalysis Unit . I am about to make further representations to another politician , and will be asking him to tell the FBI that they owe me three years wages .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 07:32:23 am

Early days , perhaps , but it might be noteworthy that it was William Randolph Hearst who gave Billy Graham his first break of national , then international stardom .

As a young Baptist preacher from North Dakota , Graham had '' hit the road '' with his '' Crusade '' evangelical gatherings , in 1949 , and had found particular favour , in Greater Los Angeles where , newspaper magnate Hearst found particularly of interest , and started regular newspaper coverage of this new '' Messiah '' .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 07:39:05 am

Correction.....Graham hailed from North Carolina .

The real '' deal breaker '' here , is '' Michaelmas '' , which I believe , evolved for the Zodiac , as a further religious or pseudo-religious festival , following in the heels of '' Christmass '' and Halloween .

6/15/2020 11:38:33 am

Folklore in the British Isles suggests that Michaelmas day is the last day that blackberries can be picked. It is said that when St Michael expelled Lucifer, the devil, from heaven, he fell from the skies and landed in a prickly blackberry bush. Satan cursed the fruit, scorched them with his fiery breath, stamped, spat and urinated on them, so that they would be unfit for eating. As it is considered ill-advised to eat them after 11 October (Old Michaelmas Day according to the Julian Calendar), a Michaelmas pie is made from the last (sic)(batch) of the season. Wikipedia

Michael the saint is fused with the angel of same name and is a Roman variant of god the father being. That the math arranges the
pantheon of gods involuted with the notion of said angels as coequal beings. Counter and likewise together convoluted into opposites are the devils and demons. Hence gods are angels just as devils are demons. Obviously gods being considered positive lords. And devils being thought of as negative lords in the Occidental mind of the time. The good god and the evil devil are linguistically connected lexiconic notions. But when we go thru the normal method of research we find that the origin of said words have taken indirect paths. People hell- bent on believing the metaphor is literal can never be reasoned with.
The liar is always going to win every debate as the truth is learned over several years of personally compelled strides in education. And the nature of the debate is positioned for the lie to always win out. The king of the western gods/angels is Michael/God
The king of the western devils/demons is Lucifer/The Devil
And reading past said dogma Lucifer was actually an older religious idea in opposition to the west. It was a feminine Gnostic view that - Venus was the bringer of the morning light. Figurative of knowledge.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 12:30:28 pm

Thanks for all that extra information , BB .

I suspect that the real thrust of Michaelmas for the hoaxer ( Zodiac ? ) throwing his weight around in trying to belittle Graham , was its marking of Archangel Michael and his fellow angels , Gabriel and Raphael , doing battle with Lucifer and his '' Hell's Angels '' , and banishing them from the goodly world , for ever more .

So , Billy Graham was seen as '' Lucifer '' , in terms of wishful thinking , by an extortionist .

In one correspondence from 1976 , and one from 2009 .

That's quite a real time span ( ? ) .

6/18/2020 01:27:02 pm

Michael Bates was in the Navy at the time Cheri Jo Bates was murdered

6/15/2020 01:27:32 pm

Yes marking with a religious like sacrifice - The Zodiac/animal king

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 01:54:31 pm

I'll lay out the two correspondences ( one double ) , at '' ZKM '' , for the bones of debate , then return here , to give references .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 08:15:58 pm

If I could just park this thought , to come back on .

There is a hoaxer , on page 36 , of the FBI's ABSCAM Files , who writes a congratulatory message to the FBI , over their work to expose corrupt politicians .

This same hoaxers apparent signing details have been redacted....apart from '' Md '' . Now , where had I seen '' Md '' written in that manner....and why did the FBI deem that small item of writing , be left exposed to the public ( ? ) .

Governor George Wallace received an attempt on his life , on May 15th 1972 . This happened at Laurel Shopping Center , Maryland , about 20 miles north-east of Washington D..C. . Wallace was rushed , by ambulance to the General Hospital , at Silver Spring , about 7 miles north of Washington D.C. .

In the following days , a number of letters from a hoaxer , were sent to public personnel and utility services , at Silver Spring , Maryland , including the General Hospital , that was attempting to save Governor Wallace's life . All envelopes were addressed similarly , and employed '' Md '' for Maryland .

These letters banged on about Communism , Catholicism , the Jewish influence on the media , the Baptist Church , and the film , '' The Greatest Story Ever Told '' .

These same letters , came in two batches . The ones sent on May 17th 1972 , were postmarked '' US postal services CA ''. The second batch of letters , were postmarked '' Hollywood CA '' .

It seems to me , now ,that although the mystery of these letters was not solved , at that May 1972 time....that the FBI are aware now , that the sender of the February 1980 letter , to the FBI , and leaving '' Md '' in his personal details , over ABSCAM , is the same person that sent the series of letters , to Silver Spring , Maryland , in the wake of the assassination attempt , by Arthur Bremer , on George Wallace .

The Zodiac ? I think so .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 08:23:17 pm

Ref : ABSCAM File 1 , Page 36 .

Ref : Mary Ferrell's FBI Files on the attempted assassination of George Wallace .

File 5 set 6 of 26 , Pages 8-11
File 6 set 7 of 26 , Pages 162-169
File 7 set 8 of 26 , Pages 112-128....and , Pages 144-149

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 10:17:23 pm

Epic roles for Charlton Heston ?

John The Baptist - The Greatest Story Ever Told
Michaelangelo - The Agony And The Ecstasy
El Cid - El Cid
Ben Hur - Ben Hur
Moses - The Ten Commandments

Rubislaw 32 link

6/15/2020 10:46:46 pm

Charlton Heston was President of the National Rifle Association ( NRA ) 1998 - 2003 .

What's the betting that Mr.Heston was like '' Red rag to a bull '' , for hypocrite Zodiac ( ? ) .

It seems that Charlton Heston and Paul Newman are the most popularly requested , for FOIA 's at present .

But the FBI won't give way , at this time .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/16/2020 07:58:06 am

Latest news , courtesy of the Zodiac contributor , '' Dave 3 '' :

GSK has agreed to a plea deal .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/16/2020 11:47:57 am

As reported in The Independent , within the last day , GSK will plead guilty to 88 charges of murder and rape .

Joseph James DeAngelo Jr. will enter the plea to avoid a death penalty trial , with a life sentence without parole imposed .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/16/2020 09:34:47 pm

Thanks again BB , for the interest in Michaelmas . I am about to post on another two letters which , cement a Michaelmas tie , between Billy Graham and an extortionist who , is increasingly looking like the Zodiac ,

But , to matters , I would suggest , and with confidence ,concerning a letter sent to the IRS , in Knoxville TN , May 27th 2009 .

'' Dear Taxman ( ? ) . Tell Graysmith ( ? ) ...about my manuscript of May '87 . Tell Billy Graham I need to talk to him , in private....''

A manuscript , in May 1987 ( ? )....just 4 months after Robert Graysmith's '' ZODIAC '' book . And , now referred to , in May 2009 .

Other clues , like Michaelmas and '' Midnight Hour '' now become pretty telling , that the Zodiac was still alive , in May 2009 , taking sarcastic swipes , at both Billy Graham and Robert Graysmith .

Refer : the '' Rev.Billy Graham - The Zodiac's Devil ? '' thread , at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net . Or , simply to view , the '' damning evidence '' , then Billy Graham FBI File 2 , Pages 244 - 247 .
I would say that , those who have held '' defensive '' interest in suspects , like Gyke , Sullivan , ALA , Davis , Kane , Uncle Tom Sporkums and all.....

Your game is now over .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 08:59:55 am

It should be noted ,for factual accuracy that Robert Graysmith's '' Zodiac '' book , was published in paperback form , in January 1987 .

The book had been available in hard cover form , the previous 1986 year . A '' First Edition '' now fetches prices up to $300 .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/16/2020 10:42:41 pm

Indeed...

December 12th 2018 - the Zodiac graffiti hoaxer issued his warning to 20,000 innocent college kids , at Diablo Valley College , and influenced by Mr.Voigt's '' Greetings from Ireland '' Zodiac hoax , furnished by The Balloon Captain , Blaise Starr and briangotback , to name just three of Voigt's pseudonyms .

'' Get Ready...Thurs 13th , the last day of classes , I will kill my imbecile classmates...I always get my way....- Z ''

From that day forward , the FBI were watching Voigt , like a hawk.

Just 5 days later , the Billy Graham files were published .

May 2009 is , of course , five years after Richard Gaikowski's passing .

Rest in Peace , Mr.Gaikowski .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 12:41:44 am

Two letters , sent by the same author , to Billy Graham in North Carolina , from California , in August 1976 , both pressed home the insinuation that Graham was Lucifer , accompanied by '' Hell's Angels '' . And inferred that the author acknowledged that he was a murderer , too .

Interestingly , perhaps , is that at this August time ( 8th - 20th ) , Graham was on his '' Crusades '' tour , in San Diego . Another example , perhaps , that these letters were threatening , in an empty and cowardly manner .

Ref : Billy Graham FBI File 2 , Pages 1 - 10 .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 04:07:50 am

One realizes that counter-intelligence can play the game of '' delayed reaction '' as well as any hoaxer .

There is a well known hoaxer , still lingering among the Zodiac community , that has devoted a large section of their '' sideline site '' to the notion that , within a Zodiac context , the Dragon pertains to the tale of '' Saint George and the Dragon '' . And , so surmising that '' George '' must be a name belonging to the Zodiac .

Oh dear , oh dear , no .

It certainly seems now, that it has been telegraphed , for all to see , when the FBI published the Billy Graham Files , on December 17th 2018 .

'' Saint Michael and the Dragon ''

'' The Archangel and Lucifer ''

'' The Zodiac and Billy Graham ''

And , all that work ,over '' Saint George and the Dragon ''......For nothing .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 07:26:11 am

Yes , that dog's dinner of a '' Saint George and the Dragon '' theory , can now be viewed , in its unholy gory glory , at the site known to seasoned contributors as '' The Blaise Starr Project '' .

Unlucky for the hoaxer ? Few might sympathise .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 08:51:42 am

A Billy Graham Business Envelope c/w Billy Graham pay check , postmarked Las Vegas 27th Dec. 1987 , with colourful language , expressing that the author would prefer to send Rev.Graham a bomb , than money . Signed , Your friend - The Grim Reaper .

Billy Graham FBI File 2 , Pages 52 & 53 .

This Just In...

6/17/2020 09:11:09 am

Sorry if this is off the topic of this thread, but I wanted to make sure Rubislaw_32 and other current readers were aware.

It’s fair game because it was publicly posted to Tom’s site for the better part of a day. The fact that Tom removed it proves that Simplicity88 knows what he/she is talking about. I thought it may be deleted, so I copied it to my notepad. Thank you Simplicity! We do not need amateur investigators perennially teasing us with “privileged” knowledge they claim from L.E. Poor Tom - a little more deflation to his ego and “status.” Tom & friends... if you don’t want something to get out? ...Shut up.

11:48 am EST, June 16, 2020
Simplicity88:
“Zodiac would only seal the center part of the envelopes flap.

That is all.”

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 10:03:08 am

'' We do not need amateur investigators perennially teasing us with '' privileged '' knowledge they claim from L.E. ''

Well , ''This just in '' , much as some might admire your support , for the now clearly '' limping with wounded pride '' Mr.Voigt....where is Simplicity 88's source ?.....if indeed it makes a halfpence of difference .

Poor Tom ? Who actually gives two brass farthings , for all the damage that he has inflicted on the Zodiac community 's sense of due diligence and adhered to probity .

We seek to find the truth - that is all - and do not exist to spend our time , mopping the brow , and stroking the ego of a con artist , here to line his pocket , at the expense of those genuinely interest in a fascinating criminal case .

Tom1

6/18/2020 11:45:40 am

He is not alone in being one of those teasing us with tidbits of "inside" info. If I knew who the Zodiac was I would post it for all to see.

Shawn

6/19/2020 09:44:08 am

Hi,

“Zodiac would only seal the center part of the envelopes flap.
That is all.”

Could explain why Graysmith stated in his second Zodiac book that know saliva was not initially found back in 1969.

This could point to Arthur Leigh Allen as it is well know he did not like to lick stamps and probably envelopes also.

So maybe a very quick lick in the middle or a little dab of water.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 10:47:44 am

My goodness...talk about '' privilege '' , given Voigt's vacuous claims of ''confidential '' information ,so often made by him , in the past .

Just a '' Toy town '' mentality , sitting back on his vanity of believing that all information worth knowing , would make its way to him .

Voigt's exposure as a hoaxer , when the stakes were high , may have only come about , because of a mix-up in communication , between Pleasant Hill P.D. , California , and Pleasant Hill P.D. , Iowa .And that is the only reason that I might have had greater knowledge , than most others , of Voigt's uncovering , as a fraud and charlatan .

But , it seems more likely now , that the FBI had Voigt's tail covered , anyway . After all , it's what honest citizens would hope from a Federal police force - isn't it ?

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 09:37:25 pm

It's is certainly worth underlining events that took place , in December 2018 .

December 12th - Diablo Valley College threat , '' Get Ready Imbeciles - Z ''

December 14th - The SF Chronicle Zodiac article , including the debut of the '' 2001 New Year's Card ''

December 17th - The FBI publish the '' Billy Graham FBI Files ''

And hopefully , more examination will take place over the May 27th 2009 envelope , to the IRS in Knoxville , with some '' little gems '' for further inspection , such as '' Tri Tetra 7 '' ( 3 4 7 ) - a re-work of the Dripping Pen postscript , perhaps ( ? ) . And '' God Bless AMER CIA '' ( priceless Zodiac ? ).

One further correspondence , in the Billy Graham FBI Files , which I shall be dealing with , in more detail , at the '' ZKM '' site is the correspondence sent , on November 10th 1984 , from Marina Del
Rey , CA . to Billy Graham , at the National Center on Child Abuse & Adult Drug Associations , for which Graham didn't actually have a vested interest .

Talk of assassination , blow jobs , homosexuality and transvestite-ism ....exiting stuff , for a Zodiac follower .

Interesting , that this correspondence is signed '' AMEN VPS '' .

Well , '' VPS '' could , most certainly , stand for '' Vallejo Public Services '' and , examining some Vallejo history , suggests that the author would , more than likely , be referring to '' Waste Disposal and Refuse '' .

A requirement , perhaps , to rid Vallejo of a '' piece of rubbish '' , that still irked the writer of this correspondence , a good 12 years after his departure ( ? ) .

Even , a mention of '' W C Fields '' , whose act was largely based on his hatred of children , to hilarious effect .

Ref : Billy Graham FBI File 2 , Pages 29 - 33 .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/17/2020 09:43:44 pm

Correction : Ref : Billy Graham FBI File 2 , Pages 27 - 33 .

6/18/2020 12:42:57 am

Gang,

This recent youtube video is quite interesting. The young lady makes a compelling case regarding solving the Z340 code. She is clear and analytical and identifies one of the lesser known names in the Zodiac suspects universe. It's definitely worth a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COnOQBxoOxE

Rubislaw 32 link

6/19/2020 01:13:00 am

Doctor_Fauci continues to provide the entertainment at the main Zodiac Reddit site , with his latest :

'' Gaikowski is not my suspect ''

This , to add to the line that always has everyone in stitches :

'' I'm not Tom ''

Rubislaw 32 link

6/19/2020 09:45:21 am

Some wise and sober words expressed at the Zodiac Reddit site , by a Zodiac contributor , known only as '' JR-Dubs '' :

'' In the face of all evidence , people still try to shoehorn their pet suspect into a role . I sincerely hope that they ( CA DOJ ) have DNA on the guy ( The Zodiac ) and get a name , because the lengths people will go to , in their minds , to keep a suspect alive , is just crazy . ''

Rubislaw 32 link

6/19/2020 10:40:59 am

In examining the FBI's vault , recently , I was certainly looking for a point of focus , with regard to evidence of a man , The Zodiac , who is so clearly a compulsive hoaxer . Not so unique , but nonetheless , a habit difficult to deny , when attempting to label the Cipher Slayer , with all confirmations , so far , bestowed upon him , by the appropriate authorities .

So , does an aspect to the Zodiac , really come down to the following ( ? ) . That being , that the Zodiac was still alive , at the date of May 27th 2009 , when , as the already known '' St.Michael + '' , was the sender of a letter , to the Inland Revenue Services , in Knoxville TN , and did start his letter , thus :

'' Dear '' Mr.Taxman '' , Tell '' Mr.Graysmith '' that if he wants to be my friend , he had better come across with my Top Secret manuscript I wrote in May of '87 - '' confidential '' . Tell Dr./Rev. Billy Graham I need to talk to him in private ......St.Michael + ''

The only redacted part of this letter , that requires deduction , is that which I have conveyed , as '' Mr.Graysmith '' , since '' St.Michael + '' has sent this letter to the IRS , anyway .

A bitchy swipe at Robert Graysmith , for having beaten the Zodiac to the post , on telling the Zodiac's story , and sharing it with the wider world , in January 1987 ( ? ) . Looks very persuasive , particularly when we additionally put into context , the timing of this letter's public release - December 17th 2018 , following in the heels of the Diablo Valley College '' Get Ready Imbeciles - Z '' message , and publication of the '' 2001 New Years Card ''

All events within 5 days , and all events involving the FBI . Just 10 months following the death of Billy Graham , aged 99 years .

Naturally , any adopted suspect , either deceased or already incarcerated before May 27th 2009 , would therefore by eliminated, as a candidate for the Zodiac's identity - beyond a reasonable doubt .
I certainly wonder now , if this was the FBI's intention , at least in part - that eventually the penny would drop , for all those Zodiac followers who , have become completely '' suspect dependant '' , in how they view the case of the Zodiac Killer .

6/24/2020 08:47:18 am

R&R
What do you guys think about this person's idea - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COnOQBxoOxE

Rubislaw 32 link

6/24/2020 05:00:54 pm

Wasn't able to locate it ,with the reference , BB . What's it all about ?

I went back to the FBI 's Spiro Agnew files , and File 4 is worth comparisons with the '' Steve McQueen '' celebrity death list Zodiac unconfirmed , from 1977 .

And , Spiro Agnew File 8 , for a possible tie in to Zodiac and Zodiac adopting D B Cooper's mantle , for correspondence hoaxing purposes .

6/24/2020 07:00:12 pm

It is a doc on Youtube called
Zodiac - Rush To Editor Ciphers Solved
on XENOPHON LUSBY ANTHONY
I just wanted to get your's and Richard's take
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COnOQBxoOxE

By the by - "Bag Full of Money" is a good song by the Byrds about Dan Cooper

6/22/2020 08:07:35 pm

Donald Fouke may have witnessed the Zodiac killer walk up the steps of a house on Jackson.

Xen A8n8t8hony lived at 32 18 Jackson

He was witnessed at the cab by the 8 year old boy

Xen is pronounced ZEN - Xenophon 8 letters in all

888 - The z408 was made of three sections each with 8 rows

Born 1/28/1931 he was 38 and a half at time of Stine murder

October is the 8th month of the Julian calendar

Middle name Lusby = rhymes with Bus By = on school Bus = By Bus Bomb = Bus Boy

Perhaps his rage was a subconscious memory of being teased about his name in grade school

XENOPHON LUSBY ANTHONY is a strange name - it has 20 letters x 17 columns = z340

Rubislaw 32 link

6/24/2020 07:19:41 pm

Thanks BB , and I'll check out the Byrd's song , being a fan as I am of their music .

Toots

6/25/2020 12:45:08 pm

My next comment is not on topic,

but was wondering if anyone ever saw the coincidence of Zodiac's Halloween fascination and Isobel Watson's name?

Isobel Watson - one of the first in Scotland's 16th century witch hunt

https://scottishhistorynetwork.wordpress.com/2017/04/12/ciaran-jones-the-realities-of-demonic-belief-in-early-modern-scottish-witch-trials/

6/25/2020 03:53:54 pm

Pumpkin carving being associated with Halloween comes from a method used by the Celts to ward off evil spirits during Samuin (a festival where many of the traditions of Halloween come from). The Celts would hollow out turnips, then carve faces in them and place candles inside. The turnips were then either placed in the windows, to keep evil spirits from entering a home, or carried around as lanterns. This tradition eventually melded with the North American tradition of carving pumpkins. At this point, the carving of pumpkins, which had been around in North America before Halloween was popularly introduced, became associated almost exclusively with Halloween (around the 19th century).

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2010/10/where-the-word-witch-came-from/

The Zodiac was trying to defame and destroy - He was against the world the way it was, folk driven and leaning Celtic. He was trying to denigrate and make profane the Celtic ways. He was trying to start conflict. He (the character) was like the upper class. He killed those of the lower classes. He murdered the lower class cab drivers and fled into upper class areas. He killed people that went to lower class schools. RCC and PUC are schools free to attend. The cost is minimal if one is able to pay. I took several prerequisite classes at a California community college. These schools are the opposite of the ivy league - for the wealthy. The Zodiac was on a mission to ruin Celtic holidays. Dec 20 July 4(This word Pat was fused with Patriot in the Revolutionary war) Sept 27 and Michaelmas day Oct 11th. It is possible that he is of both - like Alister Crowely was - both English and Celtic. He also fought for and against both sides during WWll. "The wickedest man in the world" The Government push was for war in 1969 - yet the peace driven hippies were real anti - war characters for the evil men in black to deal with. They found a way to counter them by controlling the narrative. With things like the Zodiac. Propaganda is designed to control the masses. The right wing person does not accept that it exists. It is a nebulous thing to even contemplate. For me to even type this thought out - is a difficult thing. But we are being hit with the lies from our ruling class controlled media harder everyday - some one has to say the truth no matter how dangerous. The spin is the same old lie we hear everyday - the liberal elite media response is to make up a bunch of lies. The only thing that is liberal is not for profit PBS and nobody watches it.

Toots

6/25/2020 07:32:13 pm

BB,
Your profile on Zodiac is spot on...I counldnt agree more!!

Your comment about Ivy League college is right on...quite interesting that my suspect was expelled from an Ivy League college.

6/25/2020 06:06:03 pm

The significance of Cecilia Shepard and Cheri Jo Bates both were religious 18 year old girls in 1966.
They were both from Riverside and attended college there.
They were both pretty blond haired girls.
Both killed on Celtic holidays which have pagan European overlap (Dates are not set in stone. Dates changed
with the Julian calendar switching to the Gregorian calendar, going from 10 months a year to 12 months.)
And they were both violently stabbed to death by the Zodiac.
And officer Kinkade said there were things in the confession letter that only the killer would know.
That and the hand writing and the three different letters, and the game and twitched and squirmed.
Add it all together and there is more to say - Zodiac killer than for any other murder.
The reason he did not claim it to be Zodiac is because the SoCal murders went by a different theme.
They were done under a different moniker RedHood.
They were a separate thing to him. He had been discharged from the military.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/25/2020 06:24:19 pm

I agree , albeit accepted perception that the Zodiac had both the Celtic and Saxon ,in him . A dichotomy ,perhaps , of the idealism of the Irish/Scots,weighed up against English pragmatism .

I think that as a teenager he was settling on what he was - but then received a rude awakening , that he never got over - for he believed in his awareness , up that point .

He then set out to find out what he might have been , had his circumstances in life , been different .

Yes , definitely an air of superiority about the Zodiac - which is quite funny , in a warped way .

John Lennon set out , as an adult , to re-find his Irish roots , But , as both his wives would testify , he was '' as English as they come '' ( i.e. pompous ) .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/28/2020 09:18:40 pm

Back to the same old song at the main Zodiac Reddit site ?

Tom Voigt being allowed to speak to himself , as Doctor Fauci and Francesco Amic1 .

This is precisely what everyone in the know , thought was being eradicated outside Mr.Voigt's own site where , he happily continues with the charade of engaging in conversation with his imaginary friends , such as his hired sycophant , Uncle Sporkums .

Very sad to see , and law enforcement know all too well what one individual , Voigt , is inflicting on everyone else .

Not much chance of the Zodiac community being taken seriously , while a person who has already been black-listed by the Press Association and its affiliations , as well as black-balled by law enforcement , is given the freedom to do as he pleases .

Shame on those that still allow this psychologically disturbing behaviour to continue . Their own agendas become tainted by Voigt's toxic and duplicitous ways .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 04:20:29 am

Is the Zodiac Killer Reddit site now in crisis ?

This certainly appears to be the case , as a number of seasoned contributors have been '' banned , deleted or suspended '' in the last few days , for daring to challenge the validity or claims of Tom Voigt , in other guises . And , guises for which he persistently refutes .

So , as a popular site with membership now at 33,000 , what has the '' one and only '' moderator have to say to the voices of decent with respect to the apparent charlatan that is Tom Voigt's constant presence ?

Doc Daneeka , the only moderator , is coming out with the same old '' I don't even like the guy ( Voigt ) '' and '' Anyway , you would have to prove it '' routine , most seasoned contributors have witnessed , time and time again , in the last year or more .

Last night , some words expressed by the Zodiac contributor , Forteanforever , which , surprisingly were allowed to remain :

Foreanforever to Doc Daneeka :

'' You may have noticed that most of the people who actually know something about the cases have stopped posting in this subreddit . When the last few depart , that will leave you , Doc Daneeka , Tom Voigt and a bunch of newbies . Enjoy . ''

Indeed , the above scenario would certainly suit Tom Voigt . And , if Doc Daneeka can't see what is happening to the site , very rapidly , then he is a complete fool , or as much as a liar and purveyor of deception , as the Emperor with no clothes himself , Tom Voigt .

Time to extinguish the Toxic One , Doc Daneeka , or you will most surely be next .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 06:09:46 am

Ah-ha , and a retort from Doc Daneeka to Forteanforever :

'' If it bothers you so much , I'm hardly forcing you ( Forteanforever ) , to stay here , lol .''

'' lol '' ( ? ) , from someone ( Doc Daneeka ) who is arrogant enough to believe that he should be the one voice of moderation over 33,000 followers , without any input or assistance from anyone else .

Most sane-minded people would call that a dictatorship , given that he has the solitary power to '' ban , delete or suspend '' anyone , without recourse ,or answer-ability to anyone else .

And , what responsibilities does Doc Daneeka delegate , in his sleeping hours....and to whom ? '' No one '' ( ? ) , we must presume .

Face it Doc Daneeka , you have currently lost the plot , and it needs fixing pretty quickly - before you ruin it for everyone else .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 10:45:54 am

Oh yes...what must surely be , the quote of the week , from Doctor Fauci a.k.a. Tom Voigt , in answer to whether any links have been established , between Richard Gaikowski and murdered taxi driver , Paul Stine , in the last 51 years :

Doctor Foiti : '' Nothing concrete yet .''

And indeed , an expression now coined by Forteanforever for which , I suspect internet readers will see more and more :

'' The Voigt Clubhouse '' , with reference to what Doc Daneeka has turned ZodiacKiller Reddit , into .

Is this really what Doc Daneeka set out to create , or allow the Toxic One to permeate , in Voigt's ego and money motivated way ?

An awful legacy for Doc Daneeka , to have to burden himself with .

'' The Voigt Clubhouse '' , but with no Clubhouse sandwich or Clubhouse soda , to make the experience more palatable .

TVCuckedAgain!

6/29/2020 01:16:10 pm

Good points and accurate assessment of that Reddit sub, Rubislaw. Voigt (as himself on his site and ‘Doctor Fauci’ on Reddit) has repeated numerous times that he believes year 2020 will provide Zodiac case developments in “more ways than one.” Tom is clearly restless due to what little he’s picking up from his ‘sources.’

I have never seen so many ads on Voigt’s forum, lasting for so many weeks. Even regular posters are complaining. Obviously—much like the windfall (“millions”) of clicks from the 2007 Fincher film—Tom is anticipating making some extra cash. Could it realistically be low $ thousands? He wouldn’t turn his nose up at that chance. Hence, the present spamming of his site to Doc Daneeka’s sub. Daneeka, despite having already permanently featured a link to Tom’s website, is happy to forever play the patsy. This is the same Doc Daneeka that like a formidable school marm, adamantly banned Voigt a couple of years ago because of Tom’s outright lying about his multiple Reddit identities! One wonders if this does not now fall into the purview of the Reddit Admins, proper - so that they may take action for violation of their social media tenets. Fact: Tom Voigt has most certainly whined & whimpered his victimhood to the Reddit authorities over the last year. ;-)

Daneeka is wrong about not having a reason to ban Voigt’s current Reddit alt(s). You can tell Tom was surprised his account, which he started towards the end of the TVC sub, lasted this long! When he realized he had a confederate in Doc, Tom began to make more posts (as opposed to just comments) on the r/SerialKillers sub too. Like a member of TVC stated months ago: r/ZodiacKiller would turn in to ZK.com_EXT. That it has.

Poetic Irony: for all his recent flurry of promoting his website, Tom’s forum couldn’t look worse... There’s Sandy’s profile of the noir killer who must have a smoke immediately after his kill at each fresh crime scene... The off-topic NASCAR guys have nothing to say ever since Bubba’s tribulations... and then, not to be outdone by Phil Spector, there’s David Randall Kent’s daily WALL OF TEXT! lol.

6/29/2020 03:21:33 pm

HUGE - From Stuff gathered from Wikipedia

Sept. 27th Saint Vincent de Paul, Founder of the Congregation of the Mission (Lazarists), 1660

Congregation of the Mission (Latin: Congregatio Missionis; CM) is a vowed, Roman Catholic society of apostolic life of priests and brothers founded by Vincent de Paul. It is associated with the Vincentian Family, a loose federation of organizations who claim Vincent de Paul as their founder or Patron. They are popularly known as Vincentians, Paules, Lazarites, Lazarists, or Lazarians.

Other feast days of the Archangels include the Synaxis of the Archangel Gabriel on March 26 (April 8), and the Miracle of the Archangel Michael at Colossae on September 6

Catholic order of the Lazarians/Paules.

Saint Vincent de Paul Inside the thrift shop. Saint Vincent De Paul, attorney Melvin Belli, and the San Francisco Police waited for the Zodiac Killer. Speaker 8: We were told to, that he would meet us at the Saint Vincent De Paul Society blacks on Mission Street in Daly City.
The Jim Dunbar show was not the same voice they had recalled from the Blue Rock Springs and Lake Berryessa attacks and therefore not the Zodiac. It was believed that Eric Weil, a mental patient was responsible for the hoax call to the Jim Dunbar - Eric maybe a hired aid.
Need to know basis. Catholic Cross is likely the ultimate source of the Zodiac's symbol.

September 27th was the last uncertain date of the Zodiac killings - it is now certain to be for
Saint Vincent de Paul.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_of_saints_(Church_of_England)#September

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 04:14:54 pm

Nice spot , BB . Only this last weekend , I have been discussing the sometime famous '' Birthday Call '' made to Melvin Belli's housekeeper , and how it exposes Graysmith's representation of the truth , in his second Zodiac book .

But , more importantly perhaps , a '' Birthday '' mentioned in the letter to the IRS , in Knoxville TN , on May 27th 2009 .

Refer the penultimate post , at the '' Rev.Billy Graham - The Zodiac's Devil ? '' thread , in the Misc. section , at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net site .

I still respect Graysmith , who is a veritable angel , compared to a few still hanging around the internet sites , with clearly dishonest intentions .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 05:16:37 pm

Hey , maybe when Richard has returned from a well-earned rest , he might be inclined to feature that IRS letter , in full ( ? ) .

There's a lot going on , not least what the FBI have seemed to add to the envelope - presumably originally inside it , as opposed to apparently on the envelope , itself .

I have also discussed it , as a basis for debate , in other posts , also , on that thread . If anyone cares to take an interest , then certainly worth opening up the Billy Graham FBI File 2 , to accompany the thread .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 03:56:39 pm

Thanks for the extra , '' TVCuckedAgain! '' , and really , who could have seen the woeful direction that the largest Zodiac internet site is heading ( ? ) when , in its purest form , 33,000 members is a wonderful phenomenon , full of potential new inspiration and largely altruistic enthusiasm .

Just a sordid case of what Tom Voigt sets his beady and greedy eyes on , with assistance from a '' less than honest '' Doc Daneeka '' .

If there is a resolution to the case , I feel confident that law enforcement will be laying out plans to keep the Toxic One from stepping out of line . But , until then , we may have to suffer further , the miscreant that is Voigt , and ably assisted by fools pretending to be wise men , like Daneeka .

The ''quackery '' of those with ideas beyond their stations . Just common con-men on the make .....and take .

6/29/2020 06:19:04 pm

December 20th was the date for the first Zodiac attack. It was on the Yule pagan holiday for the start of the winter solstice.

July 4th was the date for the attack on Darlene Ferrin and dedicated to Saint Patrick - Dee's B-day. Also, July 4th is Patriots day and was fused by George Washington with the abbreviation of "Pat" for the Celtic contribution. And the Irish George Washington being Robert Emmet with his statue in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco dedicated to the same stride toward freedom. Paul Stine was murdered on Washington street near-by George Washington High-school.

Darlene Elizabeth “Dee” Suennen Ferrin
BIRTH 17 Mar 1947
Oakland, Alameda County, California, USA
DEATH 5 Jul 1969 (aged 22)
Vallejo, Solano County, California, USA
BURIAL
Sunrise Memorial Cemetery
Vallejo, Solano County, California, USA

September 27th was the date of the Zodiac killing of Cecilia Shepard for Saint Vincent de Paul.

October 11 was the old day for the Celtic holiday Micheal-emus Feast of Saint Michael the Archangel

The pre-Zodiac/Red Hood killing of Cheri Jo Bates was on the Celtic holiday of All Hallows Eve 2 1/2 years earlier.

As for the first known Zodiac murder April 9-11 was of another 29 year old taxi driver in Oceanside at Easter time.
In pre-Christian times the goddess ester for which the Holiday is named is a pagan goddess of the spring/birth time.
The Wheel of the Year is an annual cycle of seasonal festivals for Pagans - and is obviously made profane by the
Zodiac killers blending of it with the comic book wheel of doom/death. Each of these links to the next and back again.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 06:46:00 pm

Well , that's an interesting one , BB , - the October 11th date for the Celtic Feast of Saint Michael - and Paul Stine's murder .

The Melvin Belli letter is presumed to be to coincide with the 1st anniversary of Lake Herman Road .

Yes , the '' Birthday Call '' is presumed by what the FBI infer in their files , to have been from hoaxer Eric Weil , on January 10th 1970.....and not December 18th 1969 , as Graysmith claimed , which was the birthday of ALA , which of course , was Graysmith's adopted suspect .

So , it is looking quite persuasive , that the Zodiac was the writer of the IRS Knoxville letter , May 27th 2009 , taking a sarcastic swipe at Graysmith for misrepresenting the truth in Graysmith's second book.....plus , a reference to May '87 , and a Zodiac manuscript to compare with Graysmith's first Zodiac book .

In addition , now , what might be on the table is Belli's next job , when he returned from Europe , in the winter of 1969/1970 . It was Altamont and the ill-fated Rolling Stones concert .

Hells Angels and '' Michael '' Jagger ( ? ) .

It can get all too much .

6/29/2020 08:00:11 pm

And that Rolling Stones concert in Altamont just east of San Francisco was on a Dali day Dec. 6th 1969 - and had 4 deaths. The Hell's Angels may have been the killers on December 20th 1968 too. Getting revenge for the cops taking their weed.

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 08:45:13 pm

Maybe , in time , the Melvin Belli letter , will be re-named :

'' The Gimme Shelter Letter '' ( ? )

Joking aside , the May 27th 2009 IRS Letter has '' everything '' going for it , apart from the Zodiac's venture into '' joined up '' writing .

'' Tell Dr./Rev.Billy Graham '' is already there , and the '' Dear '' part , must be '' Mr.Taxman '' , leaving the other '' Tell....'' - which almost '' has '' to be '' Robert Graysmith '' , given accurate referrals to both Graysmith's first and second books . Plus the timing after the loot has been counted on Graysmith's profit's from the 2007 Fincher movie .

Plus the '' sneaky '' December 17th 2018 timing of the public release of the Billy Graham FBI Files .

2001 New Years Card was the one we saw immediately , but took a little time to absorb . But , the IRS Knoxville , May 27th 2009 letter is the one that we had to find for ourselves .

Hey...so that's all the usual internet suspects '' cucked '' .

No wonder my thread has gone down like a led balloon ( ? ) .

And , Voigt's pre-occupation with Sullivan '' not '' being the Zodiac .

He forgot to watch his back , with the FBI shafting him , from the rear end .

Well , well , well ,

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 07:07:41 am

The expression '' Midnight Hour '' employed in the 2009 IRS Knoxville letter ?

The Rolling Stones song '' Midnight Rambler '' , released December 5th 1969 .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 07:25:07 am

Altamont , Saturday Dec.6th 1969 .An estimated 300,000 attended .

Came to be known as '' Woodstock West ''.

Belli had to pick up the '' legal mess '' that it created , on his return from Europe .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 07:42:49 am

'' Midnight Rambler '' taken from the album , of that December 5th 1969 date , called '' Let it bleed '' .

''The Bleeding Knife '' is , of course , the name of a traditional Halloween joke trick where , the lower arm is feigned to be slashed , in front of unsuspecting '' victims '' .

8/8/2020 12:07:32 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_saints

July 4th for Saint Elizabeth

Darlene Elizabeth “Dee” Suennen Ferrin
Born 17 Mar 1947
Oakland, Alameda County, Ca.
Shot by the Zodiac killer July 4th 1969

Rubislaw 32 link

6/29/2020 10:00:09 pm

....in fact , I would be confident that when the complete history of the Zodiac case is written , there will be another name , to go alongside Eric Weil , as '' Sam '' , the Zodiac hoaxer .

The other name , will be that of Thomas Jason Voigt a.k.a Blaise Starr and The Balloon Captain , plus many more pseudonyms , responsible for the '' Greetings from Ireland '' card , and the truly shocking and disgraceful '' Burger Chef '' promo hoax .

What a legacy for Mr.Voigt , to leave behind ( ? ) .

At least Eric Weil was a genuinely accomplished photographer , with his Beatles photographs now featured in well-known Art galleries , including San Francisco .

For Mr.Voigt ?

No crumbs of comfort , there....simply the spiralling corruption of a scoundrel .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 04:20:44 am

So , here's the thing on Voigt :

In a recent debate related to prosecutions on extortion (...including small-time menacing means...) , Mr.Voigt chipped in , '' as quick as you like '' with his knowledge that the laws of California , anyway , allow 5 years before this category of crime expires as one that can be prosecuted .

Voigt first produced the '' Greetings of Ireland '' Zodiac hoax , on the 50th anniversary of the murder of Cheri Jo Bates , i.e. October 31st 2016 . I dismissed it as a hoax , and Voigt came back as The Balloon Captain , with his '' Imbeciles '' speech , and an apology to me .But , subsequently , Voigt kept pushing it forward , under other pseudonyms .

So , in four months time , the CA DOJ will no longer be able to prosecute Voigt , over the '' Greetings from Ireland '' card .

BUT....as daft as it might seem ,six months after the '' Game on '' debacle of March 26th 2019 , and Voigt's public humiliation by law enforcement , for Voigt's non-compliance in the graffiti hate and gun violence threats , to schools and colleges....Voigt goes and produces the '' Burger Chef Promo '' Zodiac hoax , to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the Zodiac's Lake Berryessa attack , and stick the bird up at law enforcement , for having humiliated him , on the previous March 26th . And , this hoax again , as The Balloon Captain .

Voigt ought to have been bright enough to realize that law enforcement was watching him carefully - but took leave of his senses , in releasing the Burger Chef Promo on an unsuspecting Zodiac fraternity . Perhaps it is the narcissist in him ( ? ) . He had clearly taken much time and trouble over the Burger Chef Zodiac hoax , and didn't see why that investment should go to waste .

So , by my calculations , Voigt still has 4 years and three months remaining , before this Burger Chef hoax can no longer cost him a prosecution .

4 years and three months which , might be useful for law enforcement to have , if they need Voigt to be out of the way , with any positive move in the Zodiac Killer case , coming about .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 05:48:47 am

May be spotted ( ? ) - a minor correction - Voigt still has one year and 4 months to go , before he can no longer be prosecuted over the '' Greetings from Ireland '' card .

So , lots of time anyway , for law enforcement to arrest Voigt , if they so choose .

I see now that Voigt seems to be working overtime , on providing access links , between the ZodiacKiller reddit site , and his own '' House of Horrors '' site .

Perhaps trying to make some hay , before the law cart him off as an extortionist - either to spend more time at the pleasure of one of their prisons , or sectioned under mental health legislation .

As CharlesR a.k.a Tom Voigt interpreted it so very naively , Stalking is NOT small potatoes .More intimidation by the same person , will not be viewed lightly , by law courts .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 05:13:40 pm

On the envelope of the IRS May 27th 2009 Knoxville letter , is the following :

St.Michael +
Dan ch.12 v.1
Jude
Rev. ch.12 v.7
Top Secret

The Epistle of St.Jude does document the battle that ensued , between St.Michael and his angels against Lucifer and his Hell's angels .

Daniel Chapter 12 Verse 1 :

'' And at that time shall Michael stand up , the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people , and there shall be a time of trouble...''

Revelations Chapter 12 Verse 7 :

'' Then war broke out in heaven , Michael and his angels fought against the dragon , and the dragon and his angels fought back..''

So , yes indeed it's all about St.Michael's efforts to rid the world of evil forces . But , anything further ( ? ) , and beneath the surface ?

Well , it certainly could be the case that : '' And at that time shall Michael stand up , the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people , and there shall be a time of trouble ...'' could be a representation of Mick Jagger , and what went down at Altamont , on December 6th 1969 .

And this , yet another example of the duplicitous nature of the Zodiac .That anyone curious to take an interest , would inevitably be offered more than one interpretation .

One of the main reasons for the trouble that ensued at Altamont , apart from hiring Hell's Angels as security who , were over-zealous as well as swilling beer was , that at short notice the venue had been switched from Sears Point , San Francisco , to Altamont Speedway Park . And , as a consequence , the main stage was constructed quickly , and not high enough to provide a secure buffer , between the Rolling Stones and the audience .

The switching of venues , and the shortcomings that materialized became a lawsuit , for which Melvin Belli became involved and , actually had nothing to do with the Rolling Stones , themselves .

But , Melvin Belli always saw a self-promotional opportunity .

6/30/2020 07:02:04 pm

Bobby Fuller was murdered on daliday 7/18/66 near the musician CJB
"I fought the law and the law won"
He drowned in gasoline - his mother turned around and his body appeared out of
nowhere bruised and disheveled.
Another teen that died in mysterious ways and is never solved
His older brother was also murdered a few years earlier by a guy named Roy Handy with a .22 cal

Toots

6/30/2020 08:17:47 pm

BB,
Sometime in 1966, Bobby Fuller Four’s had one show at an East Coast country club, one of the band members took revenge against the snooty attendees by blowing up the building’s porch with an M80 as they left.

Anyone know what state or country club this would've been?

Toots

6/30/2020 09:31:19 pm

BB,
Can you explain what you mean..."near the musician CJB"?

7/1/2020 10:01:52 am

Toots - just in the nearby general area of socal

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 09:05:10 pm

Certainly strange circumstances surrounding Bobby Fuller's death .

Only changed from suicide to accidental death , within the last five years .

I suspect that although the Zodiac did not care much for Rev.Billy Graham's brand of religious politics , he only turned this into a '' focus of hate '' after leaving the Bay area . The Bay area period of residence represented the Zodiac's zenith of upheaval in his mind but needed a mental pacifier of sorts , when he moved on , elsewhere....hence , the Zodiac built up this image of St.Michael vs.Billy Graham , as a means of coping , when going through bad times inside .

What or who was Billy Graham replacing , for the Zodiac , that was '' on his doorstep '' when residing in the Bay area ?

That is a question of relevance , I believe .

'' Core Motive '' will reveal nine tenths of the explanation and , quite likely reveal his identity , by implication .

Rubislaw 32 link

6/30/2020 09:38:23 pm

Naturally , some will believe that I make assumptions about the Zodiac '' moving on ''.

Only recently , I posted on a topic which was really a multi-question subject . A question arose about the Bay area police's performance during the Zodiac's reign of terror . I suggested that , although the CA DOJ should carry the responsibility , that apart from the San Jose P.D. , the Bay area police had performed badly .

Well , a retired Lt.Frank ( someone ) immediately followed me , with '' We turned over every stone that there was - but found nothing .''

Lt.Frank (someone ) then , almost as quickly , removed their comment . Perhaps fear that someone else might remind them of the terms and conditions of their police pension ?

The point , I think is , that those police that served in the Bay area , at that time , believe , in the main , that the Zodiac moved on .

He came , he saw , he conquered.....and then he left .

7/1/2020 11:37:32 am

Yes - but someone killed Bobby Fuller.

His bruised body was in the car that was not there minutes earlier.

It was stiff which takes much longer than their max time of 30 minutes.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/1/2020 12:04:46 pm

From the albeit limited amount that I have read about his case , there does seem to be much in doubt about '' accidental death '' , let alone '' suicide '' , BB.

His case needs more public exposure to force a re-examination .

A young , successful and talented man . It doesn't appear to add up .A rumour only , that he was having an affair with the wife of a mobster . But , this needs to be harnessed responsibly by a journalist .

Toots

7/1/2020 12:12:17 pm

While awaiting their album to be completed and before their tour, Del Fi Records set the Bobby Fuller Four band to be the house band at the beach concert venue Rendezvous Ballroom...which was a large beach dance hall located between LA and San Diego.

I agree with BB.
Someone clearly murdered Bobby.
And my guess...it was someone young, hanging our near the beach and the dancehall.

7/1/2020 12:35:19 pm

Postmortem rigidity takes about 2 hours to begin and continues for 2 or 3 days
with a zenith of 12hrs - he was set afire but there was too much gasoline to ignite. And the pack of matches thrown into the car went out.

7/1/2020 12:59:20 pm

Lewis Brian Hopkins Jones (28 February 1942 – 3 July 1969) was an English musician and composer, best known as the founder and original leader of the Rolling Stones - Wikipedia

Brian Jones named the band and is also a member of the 27 club -
Musicians Morrison and Hendrix are some of the others who died at 27 years of age.

His death was a killing by Frank Thorogood Just after midnight on the 3rd of July which technically makes it July 4th daliday.

He was making the band members very angry by getting paid more than the rest of them combined. He used shrewd business ways to get paid triple for everything. Having several pseudonyms put on the credits and each monies going to him.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/1/2020 01:14:07 pm

I agree that Fuller was probably murdered , then brought to the scene of where he was found .

If I was investigating this case , I would try to find out everything about his private life .

Where did these rumours emanate from , about an affair with a gangster's wife ( ? ) . They could have come from the police .

It's as if , pre-1976 '' all bets are off '' , in that that year saw the beginning of the repealing of the sodomy laws , in California .

Take the example of the sometime Zodiac linked murder of Robert Salem . We've been through Salem's murder , at least three times here at Richard's site .

There is '' no way on earth '' that the Zodiac murdered Salem . But , equally , there is no way on earth that Stanley Dean Baker murdered Salem , either . And yet Baker , a schizophrenic was convicted , for the Salem crime .

A complete '' fit up '' by the cops , to fix the books on a gay murder , that wasn't getting any more investigative input .

I'm not saying that Fuller was gay , but if he had been , like 100's of other gay related crimes , before 1976 , often was the case that those crimes got pushed '' to the back of the queue '' .

Why ? Mostly because those crimes were far less likely to receive co-operation from witnesses , or the general public . They didn't want to become involved , and feared any sort of inferences of association .

So , if Fuller had been gay , for instance , that might be a reason why his death never ended up , even being labelled as a murder , much less being investigated as one .

7/1/2020 02:20:18 pm

The last Studebaker production facility closes.

March 16 1966 = John 3:16

The car at the CJB scene Studebaker October 30 1966

Rubislaw 32 link

7/1/2020 09:30:02 am

A wake up call to oldie members of the Zodiac community , to be on their mettle ?

New Poster : Who's Lee Harvey Oswald ?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/1/2020 03:30:12 pm

Interesting about Brian Jones , BB .

I didn't know that Jones was ripping off his band mates . Officially , it was believed that they sacked him for unreliability , due to his drug dependency . But , the ripping off , does make sense . So few of these young men , knew what their managers were up to , but I.m sure that one or two took advantage of what they saw going on .

The same seems to apply to Alan Price , the keyboard player for the Animals . Apparently , he took all the royalties for '' House of the Rising Sun '' , albeit an adaptation of a traditional song .

Yes , Thorogood had become a '' live-in '' builder /restorer of a country manor house that Jones had bought , and the two were not getting on . An argument seems to have started when both were taking an evening swim in Brian's swimming pool , and the physically powerful Thorogood , dragged Jones under the water .

Although suspected , this was not really confirmed until after Thorogood's death , as a claimed confession .

7/1/2020 05:28:52 pm

You know the narrative is always lies.

No matter who or what the business company.

If PR told the straight truth they would be sacked.

Every outfit hires a good liar to cover for them.

YOU CAN BELIEVE ANYTHING SAID BY THEIR AGENCY.

We have to read between the lines of crap to get the truth.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/1/2020 06:10:51 pm

For sure...and in the commercial world , that's pretty much a given .

But , what of the law enforcement world that we examine , with high-profile murders , in particular ( ? ) .

What I never expected was the extent of counter-intelligence behaviour , from Department of Justice special agents .

To protect , protect , protect ongoing high profile cases , and to constantly buy time , while these cases are not ready to go to court , but the public and press watch on , in anticipation .

With the unwavering assistance from police forces , they hold all the trump cards , with even politicians rarely getting an input on forcing transparency out of them .

Politicians may have to ability to change the law - but only if they are adjudged to have acted lawfully , in doing so...by Departments of Justice .Politicians , through justice committees can ask Departments of Justice to hold themselves accountable , but are never under oath , in doing so...unless a specific matter is agreed by all politicians , as a Public Enquiry .

Departments of Justice , in all '' civilized '' countries have everyone else '' over a barrel '' , and there is never a single politician that can hang around the political scene , long enough , to make Departments of Justice understand that service of the public , is not the sole domain of the opinion of ....Departments of Justice .

Tom1

7/2/2020 04:59:58 am

Any one else here trying to learn about the Zodiac case?

7/2/2020 08:10:16 am

They only work for themselves - which is why the identity of the Zodiac will never be divulged by them. Except for the many Earl Van Best's. They don't give a crap about the Zodiac case. It is all lies.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/2/2020 09:40:50 am

I think you have it close to in a nutshell , BB .

What they really don't care about , or can't morally afford to care about , is the bereaved of victims , and their daily anguish , without truth , recognition for the injustice perpetrated upon their loved ones , and further faith in the society , for which they previously believed they belonged .

'' They work for themselves '' says so much about what Departments of Justice really stand for . A plea deal from DeAngelo , and the CA DOJ will see it as a great victory for themselves , never wanting to look back at the years of failure in previously solving that case when , like the Zodiac case , it was '' their baby '' to sort out .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/2/2020 10:27:55 am

All we can really do , is '' push '' , '' find '' , and criticise - however mean-spirited that might seem .

And , hang on to a ready-made question , so that they never feel a ease :

'' What took you so long ? ''

Rubislaw 32 link

7/2/2020 02:26:25 pm

There is some footage somewhere - may be on You Tube , where a TV reporter is allowed in to the CA DOJ building , in Sacramento , and talk to a special agent , shortly after Lyndon Lafferty had caught President Bush's attention , over a perceived crisis of suspect and POI overloading , in the Zodiac case .

Words to describe the special agent : Sheepish , embarrassed , flustered . As if they had just been woken up , after a long and contented sleep .

At Lafferty's funeral , CA DOJ reps said some nice things about him , but succinct , as if not wanting a second question to be asked of them .

Disingenuous assh*les . They used Lafferty for many years . Strung him out time-wise ; patronised him ; hung on to his coat-tails because Bill Grant was legally off-limits .

No wonder Mr.Comey tried to side-step the CA DOJ , over the Zodiac case . The CA DOJ had hoped that the case would go away , and everyone would forget about it .

'' Hard Cheese '' - and the clock remains ticking .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/2/2020 04:18:59 pm

I see at the Reddit site , a survey is being enacted to find out the identity of the Zodiac . Just six candidates put forward , which are really just Tom Voigt's '' imbeciles '' plus the entirely innocent journalist and humanitarian , Richard Gaikowski .

In my opinion , it should just be narrowed down to two choices :

1 ) The amalgam of hoaxers , spear-head by Eric Weil and Tom Voigt .

2 ) The man who was impersonating and persecuting Boston Bill Grant .

It would be interesting to see what others think ( ? ) .Please leave suggestions , and I'm sure that they will be viewed with respect .

7/2/2020 07:21:14 pm

My answer to that is a long one - every one can read under

THE DER FUHRER DEATH LIST

Roger

7/2/2020 07:37:45 pm

It's as good a location as any Richard and your reasoning is sound.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/3/2020 02:38:43 am

And so it came to pass last night....apparently .

Doctor_Fauci a.k.a Tom Voigt , pressed his inevitable self-destruction button , and became yet another of his user names , at Reddit , to be banned .

Perhaps Doc Daneeka is finally getting the message ? It serves only destructive purposes furnishing Voigt's toxic and greed-ridden ways . To entertain this crook and purveyor of fraudulence , lowers the tone and ambience of everywhere that feels fit to tread .

Just pushing others around and then insulting them , when he doesn't get his way .

As in keeping with the distinct warning that the rest of us received from law enforcement , his toxic disposition is something we should try to avoid , as much as we are able .

As '' TVCuckedAgain ! '' pointed out , in this topic , victimhood is all part the Toxic One's game . He will slink back to his site , to lick his wounds and attempt to curry pity and sympathy , believing that he can re-invent himself yet again .

It was really over for Voigt , a long time ago . He just isn't bright enough to have gotten the message yet .

At least he can console himself that he has left his mark in the history of the case . He and Eric Weil...together forever as Zodiac hoaxers , who had law enforcement scratching their heads , in disbelief .

But , only for a short while .

monkeyneeds_a_hug

7/3/2020 08:03:44 am

Rubislaw, I was hoping you caught that. Here’s what transpired:

monkeyneeds_a_hug replying to “Doctor_Fauci” on Reddit’s r/ZodiacKiller poll post ranking suspects...

Doctor_Fauci:
>”Gaikowski isn't my suspect.”<

It sure is sounding more and more like you are pulling for him as a suspect and have him close to the “heart.”

—Just for posting that innocuous observation, here is Reddit response from mod, Doc Daneeka--

• 8h
You have been temporarily banned from participating in r/ZodiacKiller. This ban will last for 7 days. You can still view and subscribe to r/ZodiacKiller, but you won't be able to post or comment.
Note from the moderators:
You exist here largely to pick fights with Voigt and his group. And he exists here largely to pick fights with your group. I just banned you both for a week. Grow the fuck up, all of you. This is fucking stupid.

—Then, without me even logging in further to Reddit before this morning--

Your ban from r/ZodiacKiller has changed
• 8h
You have been permanently banned from participating in r/ZodiacKiller. You can still view and subscribe to r/ZodiacKiller, but you won't be able to post or comment.

It doesn’t look like Voigt received a “permanent” ban simultaneous to a 7-day one. Doc Daneeka is applying double standards here; and all I did was re-post Tom’s previous denial that Gaikowski “wasn’t [his] suspect.” I genuinely wanted to know how “Doctor_Fauci” would reconcile his comments while pushing so hard for Gaik in the poll post.

Anyone need further proof of what a Voigt fanboy Doc Daneeka is, and how far he’s got Tom’s little you-know-what down his you-know where?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/3/2020 08:47:14 am

Thanks for the information ,monkeyneeds_a_hug .

I had received a 7-day suspension , for merely pointing out , and without any profanity , that Doctor_Fauci and Francesco_Amic1 are both Voigt , and that were exchanging words , at the site .

i.e. Voigt was talking to Voigt , at the Reddit site . That everyone was witnessing the sheer lunacy of Voigt .

Doc Daneeka was clearly monitoring my typing of this '' information '' post , and suspended me , before the post was revealed .

'' Proof positive '' , I would suggest , that Doc Daneeka is actively siding with , and facilitating Voigt's behaviour .

The spotlight now , I think , really starts to fall on Doc Daneeka ( ? ) .

As a single moderator to a membership of over 33,000 , this in itself , is sheer lunacy.....and quite simply , corrupt .

There is no group , as such , against Voigt . Just many individuals that feel the same way about how this moral corruption has come about and evolved , without anyone in a position to put a stop to it .

Simply , a great shame , and Doc Daneeka really needs to examine what he is hoping to achieve by this one- moderator dictatorship approach .

Tessa, that one’s for you!

7/3/2020 01:22:25 pm

LOL - I believe at other sites, Tom is showing he’s a wee bit peeved about his 7-day ban from r/ZodiacKiller.

Whether one agrees with BDHOLLAND’s theories or not, look how the admin and mods of ZKS are currently content to let TomVoigt stalk and harass him, and troll-spam his thread over a duration of several days.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=4855

I suppose traveller1st is preoccupied preparing for his 4th of July weekend up in Northern Ireland? But, let a newbie simply post “hello” all hours on the site and traveller’s the dutiful welcoming Jeeve’s mod right on it in a jiffy! ;-)

Okay, so the following obviously DOES NOT apply to Voigt:

Mike Morford’s principles for ZKS:
27 Mar., 2013:
“I want everyone that becomes a member here to feel comfortable, and have a good time. At this forum, you won’t get talked down to, no matter what your level of knowledge regarding the case, and you will not have to worry about being banned for having your own opinion, or not agreeing with the powers that be. . . .”

12 Dec., 2019:
“Hey all, this is a warning, please take it as such.
Some people have brought it to my attention that some posters are being jerks, or idiots, or just posting garbage or nonsense.

Therefore ANYONE posting any stupid garbage, or anything that is a personal attack on another user, or disrespectful faces being BANNED IMMEDIATELY.
I don't have the free time to post on here much and when I jump on, I don't want to have to deal with nonsense. I have given the moderators to fully ban any trouble makers on the spot.

So please, everyone act like adults and be respectful of fellow members.”

Uhh-Huhh... in addition to Daneeka, it would seem like the admin and mods at ZKS have each—and each for their own status quo advantage—pulled on their kid gloves when it comes to dealing with regular ZKS member Tom Voigt.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/3/2020 02:12:32 pm

Some interesting comments , '' Tessa , that one's for you '' .

I hadn't realised that Voigt is focusing his eyes back on ZKS . This , in light of last years episode , with Voigt posing as CharlesR , and annoying the pants off virtually everyone there , with his comments about Stalking being '' small potatoes '' .

And , he may not have been found out till much later , if it hadn't been for Sandy Betts , calling him '' Tom '' by accident .

Strange how Voigt feels as if he has to deride all competition , as well as promote his own theories to incriminate Gyke ( ? ) . As if others aren't allowed to have their own opinion .

He really is just a '' scrapbook merchant '' who is deeply psychologically flawed , ultimately alienating everyone he comes into contact with .

To those that are still willing to cut him some slack , they can't say that they weren't warned by events of March 26th 2019 . He had even managed to p*ss off law enforcement who , have a lot more patience , than many might give them credit .

It seems that a fair few '' oldies '' from the Zodiac community departed at that time , not wishing to hang around in times of troubles .

Voigt merely saw a new generation of Zodiac followers , as his next meal ticket . But he seems to have forgotten that he needed to present himself as someone that was liked and respected .

He is neither - which is also lost on him .

Roger

7/3/2020 07:01:49 pm

Reading through the above comments has confirmed my reasons (formed long ago) for not bothering to join Reddit. :-)

Rubislaw 32 link

7/3/2020 07:31:21 pm

I've just had a look at the ZodiacKiller Reddit site .

The regulars are having a whale of a time , posting like crazy , full of enthusiasm . Great to see .

This tends to happen , when Voigt has just been suspended .

Surely a moral , there ?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 04:43:31 am

Interesting to see that there are a number of relatively new posters to the ZodiacKiller Reddit site , that have previously been predominant followers of the GSK case .

One or two have ventured the possibility that JJ DeAngelo is also the Zodiac Killer , with the expectation of an imminent plea deal being accepted by DeAngelo , in return for life imprisonment without parole .

If it is the case , and expected also , that none of the charges relate to Zodiac-confirmed murders , then it is highly unlikely that GSK and the Zodiac are '' one and the same '' .

But , it certainly seems that those who initially took an interest in the GSK case , will move their interest to the Zodiac case , once the GSK case is '' a wrap '' .

Even more members , then , coming the way of ZodiacKiller Reddit , and more work for the site's still solitary moderator , Doc Daneeka .

Tom1

7/4/2020 05:57:50 am

Ok I get it, and maybe some others do also. Has hatred for Voigt taken over this site? Take this fight somewhere else.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 08:36:52 am

At times , when regular contributors are looking around for aspects of the Zodiac case to explore , regular contributors to Richard''s site keep topics mixed , with Richard's obvious approval , to keep the overall subject going and encourage regular readers , to continue looking in .

Some of these subjects , are debatable in themselves , whether they would be given more time , if something more purist , in nature , pertinent to the case , demanded more debated , at a given time .

'' One liners '' from you , Tom ! , which are cheeky , cheap , and fatuous , doesn't help morale , at a time , in particular , that some positive news , with the case , would be a particular blessing .

Why don't you , Tom ! , actually contribute something ( ? ) ,instead of making sneaky and snarky remarks, as the resident '' Mr.Grumpy '' .

Or, alternatively , you could just '' butt out '' ( ? ) .

Mr. Grumpy

7/6/2020 05:12:45 am

Well thank you for the input. I will heed your advice and just "butt out". I will continue to support Richard's site. I will just become more selective in the posts that I read. I will refrain from reading any postings from any name calling, small minded, self proclaimed expert on this site. Hopefully you and Mr. Voight will get over your spat and live happily ever after.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/6/2020 09:45:28 am

It's '' Voigt '' , and not '' Voight '' , Mr.Grumpy , and thank you for your input .

Calling him a crooked ass or a crooked arse , is optional .

Mr Happy

7/6/2020 05:10:11 pm

"I will refrain from reading any postings from any name calling, small minded, self proclaimed expert on this site."

Too funny, Mr Grumpy! ;)

BLUE BELLY

7/4/2020 11:55:41 am

This harassment is a form of repression of speech.
An unconstitutional violation of civil rights.
To suppress others rights to freely express themselves
through the oppressive attempts at deterring that speech
that he finds offensive. That is the very nature of the first
Amendment to the Constitution. Not to protect speech that
is vapid and repeating of cliche. Ginsberg's "Howl" apropos.
Pestering others with repetitive bully like taunts is as vile
as fascists billy clubs. To poke and prod. To attack others from
the sidelines instead of contributing something to differ in or further
the discussion. That is a violation for which many have died in
defense to not permit.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 12:32:59 pm

Nice words , and so very pertinent in observations of the windbags that sit on the wall , with snide and '' deconstructive '' remarks , offering little or nothing as an alternative .

Rest in peace Darlene Ferrin , and Happy Birthday America .

(...or , as the Zodiac ''might'' have said : AMER CIA ( ? )...)

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 03:19:05 pm

Comparison extracts , between the Zodiac and D B Cooper :

The Zodiac , Bus Bomb letter Nov.9th 1969 :

'' The police shall never catch me because I have been too clever for them . I look like the description passed out only when I do my thing , the rest of the time I look entirely different . I shall not tell you what my descise consists of when I kill . As of yet I have left no fingerprints behind me , contrary to what the police say .''

Two years later :

D B Cooper's '' I knew '' letter , Nov.24th 1971 :

'' I knew from the start I wouldn't be caught....Here are some ( not all ) of the things working against the authorities . I'm not a boasting man . I left no fingerprints . I wore a toupee . I wore putty make-up . They could add or subtract from the composite a hundred times and not come up with an accurate description , and we both know it .''

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 03:29:45 pm

D B Cooper's '' I knew '' letter was the last D B Cooper letter , made public , three years ago . No fingerprint evidence was obtained from the letter .

Whereas the Zodiac's Bus Bomb letter is officially confirmed as attributed to the Zodiac , and therefore presumed to have forensics links to the Zodiac .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 03:54:38 pm

The only confirmed physical evidence linked to the man who gave his name as Dan Cooper , and jumped out of a Jet Airliner , at 10,000 feet , is $6,800 of 20-dollar bank notes .

7/4/2020 03:56:22 pm

Rubislaw 32 - Have you seen this just loaded onto YouTube?

Paratrooper of Fortune - The Story of Ted B. Braden - D.B. Cooper ? - MACVSOG

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 04:53:15 pm

Thanks BB , and I'll check it out .

The most high-profile follower of the Dan Cooper case , is Tom Colbert , who is adamant that Cooper is the '' whole package '', from skyjacker to letter writer . And , believes that Dan Cooper was Robert Rackstraw .

A stewardess who was with Dan Cooper , until he jumped , does not believe that Dan Cooper was Rackstraw .

Only partial fingerprints were found in the plane , and not believed to be of investigative use .

The big question really is , did '' Dan Cooper '' survive the jump ?

And , if he didn't survive , then who is the author of the letters ?

Roger

7/4/2020 05:15:23 pm

As with a lot of contributors, I think Voigt has been doing this for so long he thinks he is a seasoned professional - a kind of fountain of knowledge - who has all the answers and seeks to dominate discussions and silence anything he thinks is not worth discussing. We often find this sort of thing in academic institutions where an ageing professor has adopted a certain set of criteria about a subject and will treat any extensions beyond the "known" criteria as cases of mere side-tracking and folly, to be summarily dismissed. This malady is occurs with surprising regularity on almost all internet forums and in social media. I remember being banned from a forum that had nothing to do with Zodiac one time, simply because I varied in my opinion with a moderator about a point he had made. I was referred to the rules which clearly stated: "This is a moderated forum, it is not a democracy!" The reality is that most forums operate as mini-dictatorships or at least oligarchies, they have much to teach others but nothing to learn, unless something is posted by the peanut gallery that is worth stealing. Richard's Zodiacciphers being a rare exception to that general rule.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 05:35:41 pm

Certainly , points taken Roger .

Tom Colbert does tend to idolise Dan Cooper . '' The Last Outlaw '' , and all that guff . Well , fair enough....but , unlike Voigt with his Gyke obsession , Tom Colbert at least conceded to me , that the Zodiac could have been the writer of some of the letters .

For Colbert , Robert Rackstraw '' has '' to have been the action man , Dan Cooper .

No arguments from me , there . I haven't got a clue who the jumper was , and certainly don't believe it was the Zodiac .

Roger

7/4/2020 09:10:02 pm

I was just thinking, with my tongue in cheek, the SFPD are still trying to catch the elusive Doodler, but apparently wearied of Zodiac long ago. Would it not be ironic indeed if they were to come across a DNA match between Doodler and Zodiac, or maybe Doodler and Cooper? I am certain that if this did happen, we would be the last to hear about it. Such an obvious blunder would never be made public. Which I guess makes me wonder if any DNA evidence did ever emerge from the fabled Vallejo vaults, sent to Quantico (or wherever)? Maybe they got a bit of Detective So-and-so's cat from 1971, plus a stray hair from Officer Whose-Its family dog, which also evidently left a saliva mark on one letter and a few meat fragments as he gnawed on his bone on top of a file. And maybe there was an unusual semen stain from a member of admin in 1990? We can only ponder and laugh at all the possibilities. A jumble of mismatched DNA, or no DNA at all would not be surprising.

I guess, like most people, I have grown rather tired of the "wait for it, any day now" brigade (re Voigt, Betts, and co.) and just wish somebody would tell us the goddam truth for a second. Was any DNA recovered? Yes/No. Was any work actually performed in this regard, and by whom? Can we ever expect to be given any kind of closure on the so-called Zodiac DNA?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 09:28:06 pm

Well...many questions , and understandably so .

From '' day one '' I have maintained that Vallejo P.D.'s Terry Poyser was lying about any work , that involved the Vallejo P.D. who , have had no Zodiac case remit , from the CA DOJ , since 1973 when , it was removed from them , after the surveillance debacle over WJGrant .ended up with a court injunction victory for police harassment in favour of Grant .

The CA DOJ and FBI know the answer , which I believe is that they have had the Zodiac's DNA profile all along , and since 2003 at the latest .

It's a match that we really want to know about and I believe that has been acquired for a while , also . My guess is , around April 2016 ,but of course , am no '' fly on the wall ''.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 06:41:39 pm

The D B Cooper case was officially closed by the FBI in July 2016 , four years ago . The FBI say that they are only interested in physical evidence , from the public .

And , I didn't realise that '' Dan Cooper '' removed his black tie , before jumping , with the FBI claiming that they have his DNA profile , from the tie .

I would have thought that the FBI would have a fair idea about the validity of suspects , such as the now deceased Robert Rackstraw ( ? ) .

My suspicions are only on the possible Zodiac link to the letters .If the FBI have actually managed to obtain DNA , now , off the letters , then who knows ( ? ) - it's possible that a Zodiac link to the letters has been made .

'' Suicide graves '' , and '' 37 '' ( passengers ) , and even the doodle on the Exorcist Letter ( ? ) . The Exorcist Letter - a mischievous confession , of sorts , from the Zodiac ( ? ) .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/8/2020 07:27:05 am

A reference to a possible tie-in , between the Zodiac and D B Cooper , can be found in the Spiro Agnew FBI File 8 . An '' Assassination Scoop '' threatening the lives of Nixon and Agnew , and their families . A letter sent from Daytona Beach , Florida , August 23rd 1970 , to the Miami Herald .

Comparisons with :

The Zodiac's Bus Bomb Envelope , November 9th 1969 , sent to the San Francisco Chronicle .

D B Cooper's '' $200,000 '' note , sent to The Oregonian newspaper , December 3rd 1971 .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/4/2020 07:24:32 pm

Just posting what was at the bottom of the '' I knew '' letter , released by the FBI , in November 2017 , and 16 months after the D B Cooper case was officially closed down , in July 2016 .

Wash Post - 717171684*
New York Times -
Seattle Times -
Los Angeles Times -

Those four '' for the copying of '' , although the original typed letter was sent to the Washington Post (...note - the only newspaper in abbreviated form...)

A code or cryptic message , perhaps ?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/7/2020 07:58:46 pm

If anyone is game for some cryptic investigations , then the prize is linking D B Cooper's '' I knew '' letter to Zodiac's confirmed letters .

The '' Zodiac '' candidate , I would suggest , is the Dripping Pen card , of November 8th 1969 . Zodiac claimed that he had just washed his pen , ready for more ( presumable ) action , involving the pen being mightier than the sword ( ? ) .

Reading downwards , in the '' I knew '' letter , we might view :

Wash New Sea Los

'' Wash new sea loss '' ( ? )

And , this could compare to the '' Nixon Postcard '' , which revealed :

Rich White Pen Wash

So , perhaps it might be the case that : '' Wash Post - 717171684* '' has a cryptic link to the Dripping Pen card ( ? ) .

Certainly , worth an examination .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/7/2020 08:08:00 pm

....or , even : Wash New Sea LosA

Which equates to : '' Wash new sea loser '' ( ? ) .

Could be the Zodiac subliminally messaging that he has already taken over Dan Cooper's mantle , on account of the Zodiac being confident that Dan Cooper , did not survive his jump .

The '' waves '' and '' suicide graves '' which ended up in the 1974 Exorcist letter .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/7/2020 11:41:06 pm

And , an updated bottom to the '' I knew '' letter , officially dated December 11th 1971 :

Wash Post - 717171684*
New York Times - TBA
Seattle Times - TBA
Los Angeles Times - 7698QA2753

Rubislaw 32 link

7/7/2020 11:55:11 pm

So , it seems , that the FBI are holding back code information for the New York Times and Seattle Times , which are both denoted as '' TBA '' - to be established .

My initial suspicions are that each code represents 5 sets of instructions , pertaining to the 340 cipher solution . For example , the first set is '' 71 '' , which indicates '' seventh row , first column ''.

And further , that '' 4* '' indicates '' fourth row in its entirety '' . For Rubislaw 32's solution to Z340 , this would be :

'' I INSERTED TEN CENTS ''

Strangely , I checked the price of a daily copy of the Washington Post , in 1971 . It was TEN CENTS .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/8/2020 08:04:17 am

On an initial part-solve , I would suggest that this '' I knew '' letter went to the four newspapers mentioned , with their own specific coded message , which likely had something extra and unique enclosed , such as a particular newspaper cutting , for example .

At this juncture , I would venture a solved message to the Washington Post is :

'' Purchase Price Part - I Inserted Ten Cents ''

And , for the Los Angeles Times :

'' You See - Thanks ''

Rubislaw 32 link

7/5/2020 05:50:32 am

Perhaps of interest that the first time , through my own enquiries , I believe that a Zodiac DNA match was acquired conclusively , was in April 2016 (...although suspect , up to two and a half years prior..) .

For , I note now , that within three months , after this time , the FBI closed down the D B Cooper case .

Could be that :

i ) They have had Dan Cooper's DNA , but still don't know his identity .

ii ) They have had the Zodiac's DNA , know now who he is/was , and know that he wrote the letters , attributed to D B Cooper .

I would suggest that the Zodiac is still alive , but are holding out , to nail him for a murder , when they have confidence that a prosecution will be successful . Then , his other murders will find justice on a plea deal .

It is possible that the Zodiac could be prosecuted on some of his '' extortion handiwork '' , but judicially problematic . So , its a murder or nothing . And the truth about him will be revealed when / if they have been unable to prosecute him for a murder , and that he becomes deceased .

But , it has to be said that , one of the Zodiac's specialities was to persecute men who had daughters .

Here is a list of the most high-profile men ,within the context of the case of the Zodiac Killer :

Joseph Bates - Cher Jo

George Webster - Joan , Anne

Richard Nixon - Tricia , julie

Spiro Agnew - Elinor , Pamela , Susan

Randolph Hearst - Patty , Anne , Victoria , Virginia , Catherine

Stanley Kubrick - Katherina , Anya , Vivian

Billy Graham - Anne , Gigi , Ruth

Rubislaw 32 link

7/5/2020 06:23:35 am

I would further suggest that the biggest problem faced , in exposing the identities of both '' Dan Cooper '' and '' The Zodiac Killer '' has been , that neither acquired a criminal record .

Yes , probably a bunch of minor scrapes with the law , and as juveniles , but no actual criminal record .

Further , that Bill Grant , although not knowing the Zodiac's actual name , was in a position to assist law enforcement enough , to enable them to expose him , the Zodiac .

Bill Grant's court injunction victory was a fatal blow , in law enforcement's efforts , and they had to simply hope that the Zodiac would be arrested for a crime of any sort , and that they would be able to spot him , at that point .

It never happened .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/5/2020 06:37:00 am

It is certainly understandable if some might think this an incredulous scenario .

What had Grant done , that Grant felt so shamed about , that he could not bring himself to go running to the cops , despite the '' living hell '' that the Zodiac was subjecting him to ( ? ) .

Well , his wife had a nervous breakdown , but he managed to go to his grave , without saying .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/5/2020 07:11:04 am

And , what of all this business over Allen ?

Mostly overblown , and mostly overblown by the likes of Graysmith and Fincher , Law Enforcement have to keep their options open , But , they do not exist to make moral judgements on other's behaviour - merely implement the law , as it stands .

Equally though , Law Enforcement are a human entity .I would suggest that there were more members of Law Enforcement who thought that Allen wasn't the Zodiac , than those that thought that he was .

But , Allen did not help himself , Allen never showed Law Enforcement , that he felt remorseful for having been found guilty of Paedophilia charges - not once . Allen served his punishment , and believed that in serving his time , it excused him from any apologies or display of genuine remorse .

Law Enforcement do not respond well to this sort of behaviour , and did not feel inclined to assist him , in his claims of innocence , with the Zodiac case .

For , Allen represented an unrepentant sinner .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 05:18:14 am

Battle of the Zodiac hoaxers :

'' Sam '' vs. '' The Balloon Captain ''

As thousands of Zodiac followers reflect on the case , which of the two most high-profile hoaxers , will be remembered most ?

Sam or The Balloon Captain ?

Sam : '' I have headaches , since I killed a kid .''

B.C : '' I'm not Tom , and no one is holding my hand . ''

Sam : '' I don't want to be hurt .''

B.C.: '' Gaikowski is not my suspect .''

Sam : '' I'm going to kill them , I'm going to kill them kids ! ''

B.C.: '' Get ready imbeciles ! ''

---------------

Which of the two Zodiac hoaxers resonates most , for '' fraudulence factor '' ? .Or , even '' flatulence factor '' ?

Sam or The Balloon Captain .

You decide .

7/9/2020 09:33:29 am

Rubislaw LOL neither will be remembered - how long have you been at this?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 12:57:18 pm

It's all part of the history of the case , BB ,

The Balloon Captain has been peddling his fraudulence , since the 50th anniversary of Cheri Jo 's murder . But , traced back many years prior , in different guises . The FBI have only been forced to come out of the closet with him , in the last 18 months , owing to the graffiti related gun violence and hate threats , to schools and colleges , in the Bay area .

Sam goes back to late 1969 , and on documentation , still was hoax phoning , into 1970 , before the authorities got to grips with him .The TV related stuff , can be read at Butterworth's ZKF site .

Weil vs.Voigt - a right couple of nutters , and attention seekers . Voigt still appears unrepentant .

7/9/2020 05:36:13 pm

Rubislaw 32
I did not mean it that way.
I was laughing at your joke.
I meant to compliment you on your work.
And I should have said by the way, out of curiosity - how long have you been studying the Zodiac case?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 07:50:54 pm

I understood BB , and all is fine...I was indulging a bit , anyway , at the real but unimportant prospect that The Balloon Captain has left his mark , on the case - but not in a way that he might have originally imagined .

Thanks for your interest . I have been studying the case for about ten years . I came upon it , after about three years as a '' gumshoe '' amateur , working on the Carol Lannen murder , subsequently with police , and a further six months of their investigations , based on my files .

Then , by way of the The Hitchhike murders in Northern California , I wondered what all the fuss was about , with this guy called The Zodiac .Even though , I knew the Clint Eastwood '' Harry Callahan '' movies , the connection had never twigged before .

II was , initially , keen as mustard to tackle the ciphers , but realised that I would have to understand the Zodiac case rigorously , before I really concentrated on these puzzles .

My ''underpinning '' if you will , is that I am only the third person to '' know '' the nature of Bill Grant's '' problem '' with the Zodiac . After Darlene (...who didn't actually care too much to think about it , with worries of her own...) , and Marian Grant , who succumbed to a nervous breakdown when she found out , and was never really the same person again .

For now , I 'll have to keep that (claimed) information to myself , and with it , the identity of the Zodiac .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 01:08:24 pm

Voigt's '' Greetings from Ireland '' and '' Burger Chef Promo '' Zodiac hoaxes , can be viewed ,in the Ciphers section of threads , at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net in the thread '' Look what eye found ''.
I had to contact the police twice over them . Once for the '' Greetings from Ireland '' card , and again for the '' Burger Chef Promo '' hoax . There was a time Voigt wouldn't stop hounding our site , under different guises , but the FBI have it all documented , now .

We will probably read about it , in the next set of Zodiac Killer FBI Files .

I wonder how much will be redacted ( ? ) .

Mr Grumpy

7/10/2020 12:19:45 pm

Maybe you could start a thread with a hint or two on your POI. Is there a way to do that without putting yourself in jeopardy? Perhaps you could come up with a cipher with his identity as the solution. Randall Clemons has done some interesting research in this area. Three years ago I started reading everything I could find on this case as a follow up to a possible Zodiac encounter at Crystal Springs Golf Course in California. After a random search of any connection to Crystal Springs and the Zodiac Case the murder of Susan Nason popped up.Crystal Springs is in Hillsborough the home at the time of the Hearst family, which for one reason or another gets a lot of play on this site. One other puzzlement is the lafferty sighting. Did he go face to face with the Zodiac and thought it was Grant? Is it your belief that the impostor was the Zodiac? I am struggling with the idea that this impostor was able to taunt the CHP without getting pulled over. Not sure i would recommend that, especially back in those days.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/10/2020 01:07:11 pm

Interesting , what you mention about Lafferty , Mr.Grumpy (...it's an O.K. name , by the way...) .

Yes, I do believe that Lafferty was looking at the Zodiac , believing that he might have to deal with Grant . I think that Lafferty drove into the car park , and was then stationary , scouring for '' Grant '' , when the Zodiac pulled along side Lafferty's car , from behind . So , the encounter '' face to face '' was actually about 10-12 feet apart , plus some glass windows between them .

Lafferty was operating the '' country roads '' patrol , so I assume that being on his own , was the norm . Whereas patrol officers on motorcycles would have usually patrolled in pairs .

I can't name the suspect , for reasons of '' responsibility '' , but a name , never heard before , anyway . The nature of a perceived '' feud '' between Grant and the Zodiac , I would hope to mention , at some point , in the future , if or when , a break in the case .

The cipher solutions are something I don't promote , as a general rule , since like allegiances to suspects , they tend to cause trouble . Though I would wager that I have had more dealings with the FBI's Cryptanalysis Unit , than anyone else .

But , this case is an ongoing criminal investigation , and feedback from LE on anything , is usually going to be '' limited '' at best . And , that applies to any curious sleuth .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 01:38:02 pm

With regard to the Zodiac Killer FBI Files , the set we see now , has evolved since the first batch were released into the public , in 1999 .

I have been trying to ascertain the precise date , in 1999 , that they were released . The reason being because , on inspection of the Billy Graham FBI Files , someone started to make strange FOIA requests for Billy Graham , from the US DOJ , starting in May 1999 , and was still attempting to gain information , in November 1999 .

It certainly looks like a case of the Zodiac , finding that his Billy Graham hoaxed stuff didn't turn up in the first batch of Zodiac Killer Files - to his , the Zodiac's disappointment .

So , if anyone has information on the actual date , in 1999 , when the first batch of Zodiac Killer FBI Files were first released , the information would be greatly appreciated .

Perhaps , mentioned in a newspaper ( ? ) ,for example .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 02:05:57 pm

Yes , you see it looks all too plain , as subliminally calls for the Zodiac to give himself up , in December 2018 .

i ) The 2001 New Years card , published through the S F Chronicle , on December 14th 2018 ,

ii ) The Billy Graham FBI Files published by the FBI , themselves , on December 17th 2018 .

Just three days apart .

But , I think that we can be sure now , that subliminal calls to the Zodiac , over extortion-related crimes , is just not going to have the desired effect of him simply electing to give himself up .

It's going to have to be an arrest , on a murder charge - or nothing .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 02:29:20 pm

This is what I would venture , if anyone is interested . The early warning signs that the '' authorities '' knew that the Zodiac was still alive , and where he lived , was about six years ago .

A foreign country , but where ?

If anyone cares to find out , which foreign countries require a foreign citizen to submit a single thumbprint , with their personal details , in order to acquire a work permit - then that narrows down the field of which foreign country .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 03:39:12 pm

A thumbprint or fingerprints submitted , is what is referred to as '' Biometrics '' and , it seems that most countries require some form , these days , for work and residency related permits .

It would be interesting to hear if anyone is knowledgeable about the law , with respect to gaining access to Biometrics information for an individual who has been checked out as not having a criminal record ( ? ) .

Who knows what deals that some countries strike , behind the scenes , at government level ( ? ) .

Roger

7/9/2020 04:44:33 pm

LOL! Sam or Balloon Captain? One wonders who is fooling who? Inflated egos and flatulent delusions everywhere. "Thousands" of Zodiac followers? More like a handful. Truth be told, nobody cares, least of all FBI. :)

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 05:29:15 pm

Yes , you and BB are right , really .

Eric and Tom were just full of hot air , all along .

But , having to put up with that sh*t from the Toxic One , was not always a picnic , as they say .

Voigt still loiters , most days , at zodiackillermystery.freeforums,net

A forlorn and lonely sight , in the guise of '' Blaise Starr ''.

He might as well be picking his nose , for all any regular posters might know , for he contributes nothing to the site , except letting everyone know that he can still stalk .

What a legacy , from one that promised so much , all those years ago ( ? ) .

7/9/2020 05:53:00 pm

Rubislaw - You're doing a fine job. Puzzling at the pieces of scrap we have to work with in this case. It can often be interesting. But it can be depressing at times too. I hope Richard is doing well.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/9/2020 06:19:52 pm

Well , that's nice of you to say , BB .

I wish I had more optimistic things to say about the case . It really seems to me , that it comes down to a prospective murder , for the prosecuting of...

I have two in mind , but best not to be speculative .

I was in touch with a sister paper's crime reporter , for the ( British ) Daily Mirror , two nights ago . She made a name for herself , in 2008 , by chasing Nat Fraser , and asking him point blank , if he killed his wife ( Arlene still missing , but Fraser serving a life sentence ,anyway ).

We didn't get on that well - these tabloid journalists want everything '' fast and furious '' , never having to answer for their own conduct . I wanted to know about The Mirror's inaccurate reportage on matters linked to the Crown Office , and '' rumour '' about Joan Webster's case file . Well , apparently , I wasn't allowed to ask for anything , seeing as she was a '' bona fide '' journalist....so, it ended quite quickly .

I don't know about Richard , except that he was intending to take a break . Some nice things were recently said about this site , and Richard , at the ZodiacKiller Reddit site , recently...and I wondered if he got to read about those complimentary comments .

7/10/2020 02:20:25 pm

Another California State Highway Patrol Officer that has been brought up once before is a

"Paul" and a "PS"

His name goes back to The Linda Edwards and Bobby Domingos murders

He was the one that discovered their bodies

Patrolman Paul Schultz

The Zodiac being thought to possibly be a Police officer AND/OR often in use of a HAM radio

Rubislaw 32 link

7/10/2020 05:51:14 pm

It's entirely conceivable , BB , that the Zodiac had highway patrol experience . The '' cop '' element has been brought up on many occasions before , with the Zodiac .

Personally , I'm not of that opinion , but would never rule it out , because the Zodiac would understand that it would be the cops , that stood between him , and continued freedom , when venturing into some of his exploits....and , a comprehensive understanding of how cops operated , would have been to his advantage ,

I think that in the Zodiac's life generally , he was just an avid motorist and road user , and probably had a keener sense of how some police operated , like highway patrol officers...than most other citizens .

I believe that the Zodiac referenced the AAA in the second Fairfield letter and , by inference , in the '' My name is ---- '' cipher . And referenced the Highway Patrol officers , in the second Fairfield letter . All in disparaging terms .

The AAA employees , when out and about on duties , such as pick-up and vehicle breakdown assignments , were expected to adopt secondary police duties . They did not have the power of arrest , but could report road misdemeanours to the police , which could count against motorists who misbehaved on the highways .

So , it would seem , the Zodiac understood his potential enemies to be the AAA , as well as the highway cops .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/11/2020 05:54:00 am

Of interest , that Mr.Grumpy has brought up the subject of names in cipher solutions .

Was this the Zodiac's practice ?

Given that the Zodiac even telegraphed this possibility , with the cryptogram , now known as the '' My name is ---'' cipher , it is hardly surprising that many Zodiac followers have investigated this possibility , also .

Personally , I think that there is enough evidence to demonstrate that the Zodiac had a predilection for leading the curious '' down the garden path '' where , nothing conclusively would be obtained , and that some might be falsely resolved to having uncovered the Zodiac's identity .

For , why would the Zodiac have been daft enough to cheaply offer up the prize of himself , as a name that investigating police might go and arrest ( ? ) .

With the 408 cipher solved , it is apparent that he did not leave his name . But , this was an introductory cipher , and he never made the assurance to do so , anyway .

Beyond the notion of the '' My name is ---- '' cipher , the presumed Zodiac also left a cipher puzzle , which he called the '' Celebrity Cypher '' .So , likely that as late as 1990 , the idea of leaving a name , of some sort , was still playing on the Zodiac's mind , as a means of teasing out the curiosity in him , from everyone else .

Perhaps he became braver to himself , as he became older ( ? ) . My suspicions that he inferred a name , as a solution to the riddle related to the cipher contained in the two 1988 New Canaan Letters . '' Whoever draws the symbol - then you shall have me - Good Luck '' .
More is of interest , I think , is why some interested parties believe that he would be inclined to leave a name - than that the Zodiac actually practised the tempting of '' professional suicide '' , as a terrorist .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/11/2020 08:54:20 am

How did the Zodiac abuse the employment of names , in his ciphers ?

An entirely personal opinion :

Dr.Marsh's challenge - the Zodiac retorts , with '' I am the Walrus '' .

My name is ----- cipher - the Zodiac claims to be '' Son of the Mighty Caliph ''

The Celebrity Cipher - the solution is '' Frederick the Great '' , but '' Mr.Zodiac '' is hiding behind the postage stamp , to steal the limelight from the Prussian king .

1988 New Canaan Letters riddle - the American actor , sometime star of '' I dream of Jeannie '' and '' Mash '' , Wayne Rogers . The Zodiac has a cameo role , in the riddle , where he utters '' Imperial Wizard , Red Phantom to Zodiac '' , as if issuing a radio message .

And...we still hadn't found out the Zodiac's true identity .

Mr Grumpy

7/11/2020 12:26:21 pm

Randall Clemons has done a lot of research on this. He has a post on his site referred to as My Name is Connect the Dots. I struggle understanding a lot of this stuff but that is just me. He also has a POI but maintains objectivity in his postings. If someone revealed the identity of the name of the Zodiac as the result of solving one of his ciphers there may not be a liability for that.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/11/2020 01:06:32 pm

Interesting , and I like Randall's site , and the way in which he has approached the case .

I would remain open to some of his graphically presented solutions , but do believe that he is interpreting two aspects of Paul Stine's murder inaccurately ,serving his intention to present '' evidence '' that the Zodiac was in the back seat of Stine's cab , and did not receive perforated ear damage .

I disagree with both these propositions ( Zodiac was in the front of the cab - and did receive some ear damage ) .

This aspect to the case aside , I would thoroughly recommend that all Zodiac followers pay Randall Clemons's site a visit , once in a while , to see what he is focusing on , and how he presents his findings .

If anyone feels that confident of having solved one of the Zodiac's ciphers , whether confirmed or unconfirmed , I recommend they just do their civic duty , and hand it over to the Cryptanalysis Unit . The history of the case is littered with '' one day wonder '' solutions , to sell a book , or make a newspaper story .

No use whatsoever - and that includes '' woeful '' solutions from both Robert Graysmith and Lyndon Lafferty .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/12/2020 01:17:08 pm

It is exactly four years ago that reports of the official closing down of the D B Cooper case was announced .

Strangely perhaps , the 48 FBI Files documenting the case , are currently unavailable for online viewing .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 12:30:03 am

The D B Cooper files were closed down while I was actually using them .Does anyone have access to them ? Looks like it is the whole FBI Vaults site now .

Last week I made a claimed solve of the coding attached to the '' I knew '' D B Cooper letter , using my Z340 cipher keys .

It was as easy as pie - coincidence ?

Mr Grumpy

7/13/2020 05:58:51 am

Is there some way that you can reveal the name of your POI without repercussion? Not sure what the liability would be if you were able to release the name.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 07:52:39 am

I just can't do that , Mr.Grumpy , and serves no useful purpose .

The real prospective interest , is '' core and catalytic '' motive of the Zodiac . This will '' place '' the Zodiac as an understandable player in an opera of his own making . Then , one or two other's roles , incidental or not , will become apparent to all .

But , none of this will come about , without a conviction of the man who was the Zodiac , by a recognised Department of Justice .

So, nothing that might be compromised , should be compromised , to this end .

The aspect of the D B Cooper case , I find interesting , is the very real prospect that the Zodiac was responsible for his letters . And , wonder how that will affect the overall interpretation of the case , by the majority of its followers ( ? ) .

This aspect of the Zodiac '' pinching the mantle '' of Dan Cooper , the hijacker , is something for which I believe the FBI are now confident .

But , there is still a body , entangled in parachutes , to be found .

How many lakes does one trawl ?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 08:36:35 am

Donald Campbell was killed , attempting to break his own water speed world record , on Coniston Waters , England , in January 1967 . It wasn't until May 2001 , that his body was recovered .

In the D B Cooper case , the authorities have trawled one lake , based on proximity to where the $6,000 cash was found . No body found .

It must have occurred to the authorities , that the cash was washed up at a lake or river , many miles away . A hiker , camping out deciding better of handing in the money , for fear that that person would then be accused of having had second thoughts , of keeping the money ( ? ) .

The '' hiker '' probably kept $200 anyway .

Toots

7/13/2020 08:51:58 am

Regarding FBI files and DB Cooper, I saw that police originally called on Hollywood film companies looking for suspect's. Possibly an interesting connection to Celebrity Cipher.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 09:10:17 am

i presume that would have been stuntmen , that the FBI were looking for , to question , Toots ( ? ) .

A fair amount of the D B Cooper FBI Files , can still be viewed at Tom Colbert's D B Cooper site , if anyone is interested .

What motivated the (presumed ) Zodiac to produce the Celebrity Cipher ?

It is looking like , anyway , a choice between the discovery of Joan Webster's body , 5 months earlier ( ..nine and half years after Joan's disappearance..)................and , a probable newspaper announcement of the divorce of Don and Bettye Harden .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 08:55:20 am

As far as can be ascertained , the $200,000 demand by Dan Cooper , was all $20 dollar notes , in batches of $2,000 .

So, 3 batches of notes , amounting to $6,000 , would have been recovered by a hiker ,with $5,800 then uncovered , buried in silt , close to a bend in '' a '' river ,in 1980 , nine years following Cooper's jump .

7/13/2020 10:25:23 am

Tina Mucklo tried to disappear with the 6,000 dollar message sent to her to keep her mouth shut - found at Tina bar. Just speculating.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 02:42:35 pm

Interesting about Tina Mucklo , BB , and reading more about the Dan Cooper case , itself , one can see how some associated might try to make a buck on the side , at a later date .

The 10-year old kid that uncovered the $5,800 , got to keep 50% of it , in the end . Which is a nice story . Naturally , he was advised to sell the notes , as opposed to placing it in a bank . I bet he made more than $2,900 through careful selling ( ? ) .

On the tantalisingly persuasive thought that a hiker had originally found 3 batches of $2,000 washed up , by a lake....if only the ( probable ) $200 turned up ( ? ) ,and someone knew where the hiker had found it .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 03:54:18 pm

12 years ago , the boy who uncovered the $5,800 , sold 15 of his share of 145 notes , for over $2,000 each note .

On a rough '' value '' basis , it means that the $5,800 has ended up being worth 3 times the original and entire $200,000 demand total .

Well done '' Brian Ingram '' .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 10:43:14 am

As a general comment , on the business of a prospective link , between the letters of D B Cooper and the Zodiac :

This provides a piece in the jig-saw really , as to what the Zodiac got up to , as a hoaxer , after being '' chased out of the Bay area '', in the latter half of 1971 , by the San Jose P.D. and SFPD .

This is marked by the conviction of Karl Werner , for the murders of Snoozy , Furlong and Bilek - '' three little maids '' , for whom the Zodiac had previously been claiming as his , the Zodiac's victims .Werner pleaded guilty to their murders , in September 1971....and so, also , became '' proof positive '', and etched in stone , that the Zodiac was a part-deceiver , at least .

So , the inference is , tat it only took the Zodiac two months ( November 24th 1971 ) to find another hoaxing project - that of impersonating Dan Cooper , the skyjacker , in the letters attributed to Cooper .

It is possible that the FBI would wish to assure themselves that the Zodiac and Dan Cooper were not '' one and the same '' . The FBI have , and actually claim to have Dan Cooper's DNA profile , that they acquired from Cooper's dress-tie . But , they still don't have a body to match the DNA profile .

The general indications are , I would suggest is , that the closing down of the D B Cooper case represents an understanding that Dan Cooper and the Zodiac are conclusively , different individuals , despite not recovering a body ,in the area that Cooper jumped .

The '' telling '' implication being , that by July 2016 , the authorities had , not only a DNA profile of the Zodiac - but a match to a person , to go with it .

An ''alive'' person , who was not a ''dead'' Dan Cooper .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/13/2020 06:10:45 pm

'' He plunged himself into the billowy wave , and an echo arose from the suicide's grave .''

Rubislaw 32 link

7/15/2020 09:37:47 am

Looking at the D B Cooper FBI Files again (...they seem to have allowed me access , again...) , there are bound to be a number of '' unconfirmed '' correspondences , in addition to the officially released ones .

One such '' unconfirmed '' correspondence , dates from December 2nd 1971 , eight days after Dan Cooper's hijacking .

It starts : '' Gentlemen : This is your call to attention...'' , and even includes : '' My name is : ...''

Refer : D B Cooper FBI File 14 , Page 296 .

This small , but quite tidy writing , could be compared to :

ABSCAM FBI File 1 . Page 36 ( February 7th 1980 )

And :

Billy Graham FBI File 2 , Page 243 ( May 27th 2009 )

Rubislaw 32 link

7/15/2020 10:43:34 am

Anyone notice the conclusion of that D B Cooper '' unconfirmed ?

December 2nd 1971 :

'' My name is : ----- . Tel. ------ . The reason I am writing about something you may already know is that ----------- get involved in helping to solve crime . ''

March 13th 1971 - The Zodiac's confirmed letter to the LA Times :

'' The reason that I'm writing to the Times is this , They don't bury me in the back pages like some of the others.....''

Spooky ?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/15/2020 04:24:07 pm

On a matter of the 10,000 $20-dollar bank notes .

The 10,000 notes were counted out , and their serial numbers recorded , at a local Seattle bank , before presented to Dan Cooper , in 100 batches of $2,000 .

As soon as news broke on Dan Cooper's escapade , the major newspapers were printing the serial numbers of the notes , for the public to be watchful , whenever they had reason to use a $20 banknote . And , there may have been (...as far as anyone knew ..) as many as 10,000 of these $20 notes out in the public domain .

Then , after about 10 days , the newspapers provided a booklet available to the public , with the serial numbers information , for the price of $1 .

But , not one claim in nine years .Then the boy , Brian Ingram , who found the $5,800 , created renewed interest in the 10,000 $20 banknotes .

But , not a '' dickey bird '' since . One might have thought that if there were nearly 10,000 $20 notes in circulation , with recorded serial numbers , a bank's sorting office at least , might have come across one ?

The lack of a single note turning up in nearly 50 years , is probably an additional reason why the FBI believe that Dan Cooper and his ''baggage '' ,ended up at the bottom of a lake .

Super link

7/23/2020 11:07:54 am

"The lack of a single note turning up in nearly 50 years , is probably an additional reason why the FBI believe that Dan Cooper and his ''baggage '' ,ended up at the bottom of a lake ."
The FBI's simplistic assumption was that D. B. Cooper should have spent his money in the USA, and as no $20 notes were reported to have been spent in the USA, he probably drowned in a lake.
D.B. Cooper was probably of Canadian origin and he may well have spent the money in Canada or even Mexico, two countries bordering the USA. If so, those $20 notes would have been very difficult to trace, and there is no indication at all that even in the USA itself, the banks kept a close watch on the $20 notes years after the incident.
Frustrated by their lack of progress in the D.B.C. case, the FBI pencil pushers ruled that he could only have drowned, since no trace was found of him. Another question, what about his parachute, never found either? And his body?

Roger

7/23/2020 04:27:39 pm

I tend to agree with you Super. I am reminded of the Alcatraz escape and the way the authorities presumed the inmates had not done their research on things like tides, so must have drowned. This is despite any real evidence to support that contention ever being found. I have trouble believing these guys would have gone to so much trouble, investing so much time, labor, effort and ingenuity into perfecting their escape, and forgot about something as critical as tides. We also see documentaries from time to time on TV in which "experts" take the same official position, that it would be impossible to get to land from Alcatraz and anybody trying to do so would have been swept out to sea. I sometimes wonder if the FBI have a part in the production of these shows and are hoping that if any of those escaped convicts are still alive they will make the mistake of trying to set the record straight? Well, perhaps not. Perhaps these film makers are simply taking the official line for the same reason the authorities did. It is the easiest and safest option for them to consider, given the amount of time that has elapsed. And yet I also recall seeing an episode of a popular TV show called Mythbusters which put the theory to the ultimate test, using similar materials from the time, and they did indeed succeed in making it across the Bay to land. The team from Mythbusters may not be "scientific experts" from the point of view that they all possess multiple university degrees, but they know their stuff because they have a lot of experience with putting theory into practice. Sharks are of course a possible danger in the Bay and difficult to predict, but to some extent they also move according to the tides and the location of their natural prey. But the Mythbusters show did at least reveal to me that the escape was plausible, especially if we consider the prisoners would have researched everything in great detail before jumping into the icy waters of the Bay. One thing prisoners often do have is a LOT of time, so they would have studied the tides and seasons and planned everything meticulously. I think they would have timed their escape, not simply thrown themselves into the Bay with an attitude of "come what may".

Rubislaw 32 link

7/16/2020 12:17:59 am

A pretty postcard from the Zodiac ?

From Longview , WA , on May 28th 1972 , six months following the '' real live drama '' of Dan Cooper , an appreciative person of the FBI , taking a little time out , to stitch up a perfectly innocent motorist with Oregon licence plates . Simply signed : '' An Opera Fan '' .

Whoever could it be ?

Ref : D B Cooper FBI File 26 , Page 209 .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/16/2020 08:54:46 am

Strange , the claims certain individuals make , and when they are desperate to redeem a reputation that they thought may have had , in years gone by ?

A new article , by The Balloon Captain , claims that he was gifted his self-perceived writing skills by his father who , was a Pulitzer Prize '' nominee '' .

Each year , there up to 20 Pulitzer Prize winners , with up to 60 nominees . But , that is entirely different from the quantity of '' entrants '' , that can literally run into the thousands .

The article , by The Balloon Captain , is really of a '' back in the day '' sort , designed to big-up himself , and slag off Mike Butterfield .

Nothing much changes then ( ? ) . And , the now reality of the Balloon Captain's '' placement in a dark room '' , for all time , by Law Enforcement , must be a hard pill to swallow .

An assignment of entry to room 101 , with that crazy guy who upset Bob Dylan , Eric Weil , and with no coming back .

Certainly not , this time .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/16/2020 09:19:10 am

Advice to The Balloon Captain , from Mary Poppins , no less ?

'' Just a spoonful of sugar , helps the medicine go down .''

Rubislaw 32 link

7/16/2020 09:48:56 am

With two parachutes , a bag of money , a briefcase containing a fake ( ? ) bomb , and wearing a raincoat , Dan Cooper jumped into a black evening sky , to join an angry storm at 10,000 feet .

Freezing air conditions , and the possibility of freezing water temperatures , Dan Cooper had just 22 seconds to ensure that he landed safely and , if failing to accomplish this , may have been travelling at a speed of between 120 and 180 miles/hour ,

What chance ?

In January 1967 , as with what the Zapruder film sadly offered , the whole world got to see Donald Campbell 's Bluebird take to the sky , at 300 miles /hour , catapulting Campbell into Lake Coniston , and decapitated for good measure .

One letter , attributed to '' D B Cooper '' is signed '' A Rich Man '' . In May of 1967 , less than 4 months after Donald Campbell's death , The Beatles released '' Baby , you're A Rich Man '' :

'' Now that you know who you are , what do you want to be ? And have you travelled very far ? Far as the eye can see .''

D.C. ? - Donald Campbell , Dan Cooper , District of Columbia .

Tom Coits

7/16/2020 02:26:16 pm

Hey all, can you help me out with some advice? I’m planning on setting up a private Zodiac site... hoping to make it the BIGGEST ever! In the WORLD y’all! Can I just post some Fincher ‘Zodiac’ film still shots on my splash page of actors like Mark Ruffalo and Anthony Edwards, etc. or do I need permission and licensing for that — maybe from the movie studio or even the celebrity agents?

I wouldn’t want too many people reporting me you know, ‘cause right now I don’t have the cash to pay copyright violations... or even hire a lawyer. I also don’t want to appear the hypocrite if... let’s just say there may come a time when I accuse other site admins of stealing my personal copies of public domain crime scene photos or letters.
Okay, thanks for your time.

PS. I will try and look for the answers on Reddit as well, but my last account was terminated for some strange and abrupt reason!

Oh, one last thought... if I can’t use the film stills, do you think visitors to my site be drawn to any “Breaking DNA News” if I selected something like an Atari “Player One Ready” font, circa 1982? Remember ‘Pitfall’ y’all!

Rubislaw 32 link

7/16/2020 07:34:52 pm

Here's something you could do . Tom Colts .

You could start by highlighting well known examples of Zodiac hoaxes , and their ramifications , such as making college kids cry on TV ,in fear of their lives over gun violence threats , related to those Zodiac hoaxes .

What is a bonus over the two Zodiac hoaxes , from The Balloon Captain is , that The Balloon Captain is still in denial of the '' Greetings from Ireland '' card , and the '' Burger Chef Promo '' hoax , even though he was caught red-handed by the FBI , attempting to further promote these hoaxes , as the real work of the Zodiac .

So you see , there is no authenticated copyright on the Zodiac hoaxes , and you would be at legal liberty to uses them , and indeed abuse them , for no cost , nor legal recrimination .

A cheap , and cost free start , as such , with your new site ( ? ) .

Mr Gumpy

7/17/2020 11:49:24 am

How about this gambit. Set up something like The Search for Bigfoot. In stead of traveling around the country holding town halls, you could interview all those that claim to know the identity of Mr Z. Might turn out to be very interesting to get the cards put on the table so to speak. An added feature would be to talk to those that feel that they may have had a confrontation with the Z Man or claim to have done so.

funny things

7/16/2020 04:59:58 pm

July 16th
1918
The last of the Romanovs
Russia's Czar Nicholas II and his family were executed by the Bolsheviks.

1790
The District of Columbia was established as the seat of the United States government.

1935
The first parking meters were installed in Oklahoma City.

1945
The first atomic bomb was tested in Alamogordo, N.M.

1951
J. D. Salinger's novel Catcher in the Rye was published.

1969
Apollo 11 took off on the first manned flight to the moon.

1979
Saddam Hussein became president of Iraq.

1999
John F. Kennedy, Jr., his wife Carolyn Bessette, and her sister Lauren, died in a plane crash near Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/16/2020 08:11:15 pm

Strange that you have omitted , March 26th 2019 , as a watershed moment , in Zodiac internet history ( ? ) .

For followers of the Zodiac case , that is actually a big deal .

The Balloon Captain had his trouser pants puled down by Law Enforcement , and everyone finally saw him for the fraud that he is , and has been , since 2008 , at the latest .

Oh how The Balloon Captain liked Gyke ( ? ) .

Shawn

7/17/2020 07:16:35 am

What has Richard Grenell or a fellow Britain been up to?

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/prashs-murder-map/e/74033878?autoplay=true

One of the best Zodiac podcasts I have heard.

7/17/2020 12:58:16 pm

Hypothesis

The Zodiac Killer

1 - A super villain character created by one man to express his own rage.

or

2 - A super villain character created by a terrorist group to influence the public.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/17/2020 04:07:33 pm

'' A super villain character created by one man to express his own rage '' - is a very accurate description , I think .

There is an element of a '' decision of convenience '' there , also .

Generally , I think Zodiac followers are caught in a '' Three-way tie '' over the Zodiac's knowledge of Darlene - '' Yes , No , and Not Sure ''.

The Zodiac elected to become this super villain character , after having murdered Darlene Ferrin . I think that that is a big clue to him having had knowledge of Darlene , prior to her murder .

So , becoming '' Zodiac '' was also a means of masking , aspects to who he was , and how he fit into a '' Vallejo Scenario '' .

Persecuting Bill Grant , had always been the intention - but Darlene got in the way , simply with her knowledge of what is what , and who is who .

She didn't actually care too much about the Zodiac's private life , but was not giving positive enough signals to the Zodiac , that she had no intention of going to the police over the LHR murders . For , Darlene had troubles '' outside the law '' of her own - for which the Zodiac did not twig , till after he had murdered her .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/17/2020 05:38:37 pm

Halloween Card : '' Bye Dee , bye - Nincompoop . ''

Z340 solution ( ? ) : '' Nice freak clue around Darlene's case .''

Rubislaw 32 link

7/17/2020 05:55:22 pm

Where did this super villain character come from ?

A combination of Vincent Price and John Lennon , with some added Groucho Marx , for zest .

7/17/2020 06:07:35 pm

Jim Phillips referred to Dee as a "Kewpie Doll"

She sounds like an object which he possessed.

In the divorce papers she refers to Jim as a dirty abusive "hippie"
with long hair and a beard. The word Hippie was like a cuss word.

The cop that interviewed Jim (I think he was the only man ever arrested for the Zodiac case) said he did not think Jim could be the
Zodiac because he said Jim was only about 5'6" tall and they were looking for a big guy, 6 foot or better.

But, we now realize - thru much deliberation that the Zodiac was 5'8"
And wore glasses. Just like Jim Phillips.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/17/2020 06:51:11 pm

These are interesting insights , BB . Certainly worth mulling over , for , what can we be really sure of ( ? ) .

I believe that Darlene was an intelligent person and , although not that well-educated , had good insight and a sound temperament .

I think that she was aware that many men were attracted to her , but it was often because she was elfin-like , and she would have wished to have been more '' leggy '' and overtly sexy . Men wanted to be protective towards her , which bored her to an extent , because she had faith and reasonable confidence in looking after herself .

Both her husbands could probably be described as being '' non-charismatic '' , and even '' dull '' . That is a slightly enigmatic side of Darlene . She probably just wanted perceived '' anchorage '' in her life , so that she could continue to be a '' free spirit '' inside .

Based on a few claims though , apart from Lake Berryessa , the Zodiac is described as being slightly above average height , and above average weight for perceived height .

As at Lake Beryessa , I think that he was taller than most people perceive , and the CA DOJ's special agent's report of 6ft 2in , would be closer to the truth of the matter . It does seem ( ? ) as though we can only really be sure of the witness reports from the teens , at Presidio Heights - then a case of reading into their interpretations .

7/18/2020 07:59:38 am

This Documentary is absolutely excellent

ZODIAC KILLER DEFINITIVE IDENTITY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DDx5Fvq5uk

7/18/2020 08:05:52 am

Hannibal Lecter said he covets.

Jim Douglas Phillips coveted Dee.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/18/2020 08:34:32 am

Even with our limited knowledge on Jim Phillips , BB , statistics alone would put Darlene's husband or ex-husband at the top of the list of suspects as her murderer .

So , Jim Phillips is a sound notion as a starter .

But given that we accept that the Zodiac was responsible for all 4 Bay area attacks , that resulted in murder , then how do we explain that Jim Phillips is responsible for a double murder at Lake Herman Road , six months before he '' supposedly '' murders his ex-wife ?

I just think that the '' very least '' that we require , is a motive that fits all 4 Bay area attacks . And , the Zodiac had seen no reason to declare himself as '' The Zodiac '' , directly in the wake of the Lake Herman Road murders .

But , any replies to this perceived conundrum , would be genuinely appreciated .

7/18/2020 10:21:17 am

Donald Warren Porter and James Phillips Crabtree are suspects in Darlene's murder. On the night of July 20,1969 They were arrested for Darlene's murder. According to Benicia police report 243-146 The pistol they had turned out to belong to David Willy Ott. He is the main drug guy behind the Lake Herman road ordeal.Donald Warren Porter and James Phillips Crabtree may have been the suspects in the car with him and possibly also Darlene. When Jim gets out of the passenger side to start shooting at Faraday for a perceived slight over drugs on Dec.20,1968. Also several months before this they murdered another guy in the same way.

https://zodiackillerhoax1986.freeforums.net/thread/60/warren

7/18/2020 10:35:32 am

In the early morning of December 7, 1967, the body of Ronald Lee Roy was discovered in the Carquinez Heights area of Vallejo. The autopsy of Roy showed three bullet wounds in the head and there were three facial lacerations. The pathologist who conducted the autopsy testified that the lacerations had occurred before death and were probably inflicted by a hard, blunt object. The coroner of Solano County was of the opinion that the victim had been killed less than 12 hours before the body was found. December 6th was a Daliday.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/18/2020 11:12:38 am

Fascinating stuff - and genuinely so .

It does show , to an extent that the Zodiac Killer case , as an entity , can be approached from a number of different directions .

It is certain that Jim Phillips was questioned , in relation to his ex-wife , and on a number of occasions . Whether true or not , I was not aware of his actual arrest , with regard Darlene's death , let alone culpability for crimes of the Zodiac .

If we go back to the start , which is the double murder at Lake Herman Road , as '' retrospectively '' the assigned responsibility of the man that became '' The Zodiac '' , then :

The Benicia Police employed traditional methods of murder investigations , and started by suspecting and questioning contemporaries of David and Betty Lou . Two suspects emerged , in particular - a boy at school who had a crush on Betty Lou , and a contemporary of David who , had been selling weed at The Pancake House where , David and Betty Lou had previously visited .

Once the Benicia Police were satisfied that none of David's and Betty Lou's contemporaries were responsible , detectives then turned their full attention on to adults that may or may not have had familiarity with the young couple.

That is when William Joseph Grant became the official and known first suspect for the murders of David and Betty Lou . And , this dubious suspect status Grant retained after the murder of Darlene Ferrin . Until , in fact , late 1973 , when his suspect status became illegal , on account of his legal injunction against LE ( Vallejo P.D. specifically ) for Police Harassment .

This information can be found , in the form of official and authentic police and CA DOJ reports , in the compiled book , '' Solving the Zodiac '' by C.Symons . A book that offers no opinions - merely documentation .

7/18/2020 12:53:40 pm

Rubislaw Interesting

Today is Daliday - 54 years ago Bobby Fuller was murdered
by secret LAPD squad of hitmen for the mobster who had an
850,000 dollar insurance policy on Bobby. Morris Levy

On July 18, 1966, he was found dead inside his car at the age of 23... Fuller's death was first ruled a suicide, but three months later the medical examiner changed the cause of death to “accidental asphyxiation” — meaning that, somehow, Fuller had accidentally drowned himself in gasoline. Which is impossible. He was murdered for the money.
Strange how they would never tell how his body just appeared in his drive way suddenly.
I can't help but think the corrupt killer cop may have liked killing him. He was probably the
one at the secondary crime scene that threw the gas can away."I Fought The Law and the Law Won"

7/18/2020 01:04:15 pm

They had to change the cause of death to accidental, to collect on the policy.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/18/2020 01:55:50 pm

It does seem inconceivable that Fuller wasn't murdered .

Such cruelty - had Fuller actually done anything wrong ( ? ) .

It seems unlikely . This case needs an investigative journalist to make it their project .

It does seem that investigative journalism has become a virtually extinct occupation ,these days ( ? ) . From my experience with the press , their inclinations are to strike deals with law enforcement . To merely '' facilitate '' any information received from the public , placed in law enforcement's direction , in return for preferential treatment with any crime news breaking .

No one ,or very few left , to force , challenge or assist criminal investigations or perceived injustices . A shame .

What would we , as amateur sleuths , looking at the Zodiac case , not give for Paul Avery to be still around , to pick up any pertinent '' batons '' , and run like the wind , based on moral principles , as opposed to an Editor's directive ( ? ) .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/18/2020 02:31:04 pm

Speculative and controversial , granted , but what was Darlene up to , on the wrong side of the law ?

Perhaps '' that '' for which she was becoming concerned about ?

At this late stage in the Zodiac Killer case , sometimes it might be of benefit to discuss ( ? ) . For , what is actually going to force Departments of Justice's hand , in moving to a resolution in the Zodiac case , before all known bereaved of victims have , themselves , died out .

From my research , and admittedly local hearsay , I suspect that Darlene was a '' bag lady '' for a stolen cars scam . It would have been her responsibility to hold on to the '' loot '' .Problem was that she had started to '' cream off the top '' or '' skimming '' as is sometimes referred to . To the extent that she might have realised that she would no longer be in a realistic position , to make good on that which she had already misappropriated .

What could she do ? Either run to the law , or wait and see how long it would be before a crime syndicate member found out - and then face the consequences .

Any other thoughts , along these lines , would be interesting to hear .
Was Darlene really '' clean as the driven snow '' ?

7/18/2020 03:36:09 pm

For many years now people have been dancing around the elephant in the room.
That being the indiscretions of Darlene Ferrin. She was killed by the Zodiac Killer. Darlene was "seeing" many police men. Not to mention her husband James Phillips changed his name to James Crabtree after being arrested for her murder. Then he absconded to Oregon to live on a Indian reservation outside the legal limits of the law. She learned about satanism from James. And how to be a deviant. He taught her about the underbelly of the San Francisco drug scene. And she seen him commit crimes. Darlene had much more money than would come from being a waitress. She was in the BRS parking lot that night according to her brother Leo to get some "pot". This seems to say that the extra money was coming from the selling of her body for sex. Too many guys for any real dating scenario. The men were not her type. Too old. Too square. But they had jobs/money. That's what she was interested in. For her and her family.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/18/2020 03:44:14 pm

I had not realised that Jim Phillips changed his name to Crabtree , to wrestle away the association attached to his and Darlene's married surname .

Was Dean Ferrin just dumb ?

Prostitution does seem too obvious ( ? ) - but could be true .

7/19/2020 06:09:07 pm

His full name is Arthur Dean Ferrin.
He may have been the sugar daddy type

7/18/2020 04:32:18 pm

He had to shake the legal tail they put on him.
They can't find you - if you don't set down roots.
He's has never lived in the same place very long.
His M O is to always live near the beach though.
Right now that's in Lincoln City, Oregon
He was born April 8, 1969
He joined the military in 1961 Army Airborne
He was a code expert sent 16 weeks for code training
Oceanside phone call was early April 9, 1962
The cabby was killed late on April 10
90 months later to the day - another
29 year old cabby was murdered.
https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html

7/18/2020 04:39:37 pm

He was born April 8, 1969

Should have been April 8, 1944
which made him 25 in 1969

7/18/2020 05:24:13 pm

The footnote on the Exorcist letter "ME-37 SFPD-0"

M=13
E=5
ME=18
18X37=666

7/18/2020 06:21:34 pm

serial killers and prostitution go hand in hand

Rubislaw 32 link

7/18/2020 07:23:29 pm

Often so true - The Suffolk Strangler , an acute example in recent years.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/18/2020 07:01:15 pm

One can see that for Jim Phillips Crabtree .

Tainted for evermore - damned if he is , and damned if he isn't .

A high-profile unsolved criminal case is like an earthquake , with reverberations never really ending , for anyone close to its epicentre .
And , the '' best '' that people of the Bay area , with respect to the Zodiac case , were '' served up '' by Law Enforcement , was the '' complete tripe '' from Vallejo P.D.'s Detective Terry Poyser .

An utter disgrace to his badge , and no one , not even the Attorney General of the CA DOJ did enough to correct Poyser's self-centred fabrication , in the wake of GSK's arrest .

Another example , so clearly , of Law Enforcement considering themselves first , and how they might be bothered by the public whom , they are supposed to place first , and serve with honour .

7/19/2020 12:39:00 pm

He exhibited strange behavior - if an innocent person.
Confessing to his room-mate.
Lying about things - like dates of being here or there.
And, like the picture of him with Dee not being him.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 01:03:17 pm

Yes , BB , I have heard similar comments . One could see , perhaps , that Jim Crabtree doesn't wish for others to bring the subject up of Darlene's murder and its relation to the Zodiac case . It will continue to follow him around for the rest of his life - particularly without a resolution .

Until informed otherwise , I think that we have to go with the Zodiac being responsible for all 4 Bay area attacks . Then , with Jim Crabtree in mind , what chance of him being responsible for the other 3 , in addition to Blue Rock Springs ( ? ) .

Not that likely - particularly if the investigating police have already been '' all over him like a dose of salts '' .

I would interpret it as him just wanting his privacy , and others electing to interpret it differently .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 07:58:58 am

One purpose , if you will , is not to get too down-hearted . Though mean-spiritedness does tend to come with the territory .

Headlines in two Scottish newspapers , 48 hours ago :

Glasgow's The Daily Record :

'' American serial killer suspect linked to infamous Templeton Woods murders in Dundee .''

Dundee's Courier :

'' Suspected American killer linked with Templeton Woods murders in Dundee .''

7/19/2020 04:07:07 pm

Bobbie Oxnam was a girl friend of Darlene.
She was a reference source used by Graysmith for Zodiac Unmasked.
On page 16 she says that she kicked out Jim from her apartment for being
abusive to Darlene and carrying a .22 pistol around every where.
She said that Dee was very scared of him.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 05:15:13 pm

I heard also that he went through periods of extreme lethargy .

That all sounds like drink and drugs ( ? ) .

Toots

7/19/2020 09:56:21 am

Does anyone know where Elizabeth McCabe was a trainee nurse? Was it a hospital? Did anyone ever claim a man was hanging around that employer, like Sutter Hospital did in the Judith Hakari case?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 10:30:31 am

I'm not sure of the name , offhand , Toots , but Elizabeth was still , strictly speaking , a student nurse , attending college and spending part of her time , attending nurseries for young children .

It is believed that Elizabeth was picked up at Teazer's nightclub . She had split up from her girlfriend that evening , over a row over a man , they both fancied .

Her girlfriend had still given her one pound sterling , which would have been enough to take a taxi home . But , if she had bought herself a drink , she would have had to walk home .

The assumption , I think , is that the man who murdered her , offered her a lift home .

Vincent Simpson had been a taxi driver , on duty , that night , and had been spotted driving into the car park , close to Templeton Woods . But he claimed in court that he had only visited the car park , in order to masterbate .

Yes...some mitigation ( ! ) - but probably true .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 11:47:03 am

The main difference between Carol Lannen and Elizabeth McCabe is , that Elizabeth McCabe was found with her wool top placed over her body , as if her perpetrator cared that , in death she should still keep the cold out .

Haunting .

On what little has emerged , in the case of Emma Caldwell ( April 2005 ) , found in woodland , near Roberton , Biggar , she was discovered in similar circumstances - naked , bound and strangled .

Toots

7/21/2020 02:11:41 am

Do you happen to know if Elizabeth McCabe's girlfriend is still alive? Perhaps that same man they both fancied that night could be identified by the girlfriend?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/21/2020 09:12:34 am

Yes Toots , Sandra Niven , and she gave evidence at the trial of Vincent Simpson , for Elizabeth McCabe's murder , in 2007 .

Sandra Niven , it would seem , was more sexually experienced than Elizabeth . I felt that the press unfairly portrayed Sandra , as frivolous . I think she was a good friend to Elizabeth . It was Elizabeth who had just really experienced a sexual awakening , and had not been conducting herself , with prudence and responsibility , sexually .

It emerged that there were about a dozen men who had '' dated '' both Sandra and Elizabeth , and it seems that those men were cleared , to the police's satisfaction .

The general feeling, in the first few years of both Templeton Woods murders was , that if one perpetrator , then he was a local man .

But , as time has gone on , the notion that a single perpetrator , residing in north Aberdeenshire , seems more likely .

It was the peeking of the North Sea Oil Industry , at that time , and both Aberdeen and Dundee benefited in local economies . Many overseas oil workers moving in to the general area , including 10,000 Americans and 10,000 Dutch , plus many thousands of English , south of the border .

7/19/2020 10:22:03 am

The internet and the Zodiac were in-vented in 1962
The internet and the Zodiac announced arrival in 1969
They were initiated in 1962 and pronounced in 1969
The first message sent by computer was from Palo Alto to Stanford
Proxy Server
PS
Post Script
Paul Stine
Presidio Streets
Phil Sins
Paradice Slaves
Paul Schultz
Pacific Street
Patrolman Stephens

8/8/2020 11:28:37 am

Santo Paul "Sandy" Panzarella was played by the actor Paul Schulze (PS) in 2007 Zodiac
Sancho Panza
Park Station
Police Sargent
Peter South
PSP - Judith's ex.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 05:28:00 pm

Being a firearms expert , BB , do you have an opinion on the actual execution of Paul Stine ?

The pathologist's report found conclusively , that Stine had received a single bullet to the front of his right ear - in effect the right temple region . Some make their judgement based on erroneous initial information that the bullet's entry point had been behind the right ear .
I think that the Zodiac was in the front passenger seat , shot Stine using his right hand , and received some perforated ear-drum damage on Zodiac's right-hand side .

What do you think ?

7/19/2020 05:47:01 pm

Experts know to keep the mouth open when shooting to prevent any damage.

7/19/2020 05:56:06 pm

Would also need to remove gloves for handling the weapon.

7/19/2020 06:03:21 pm

Would have to walk away - weapon is too heavy to run without holding in the hand.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 06:09:52 pm

That's interesting . The gloves found are generally not thought to have been the Zodiac's - and were probably a pair of ladies gloves , anyway . I suspect that the Zodiac wasn't an expert , as such , but had practised what he intended to do....sitting side-on to Stine , he removed his right-hand and gun , from a pocket in his jacket and , turning slightly in towards Stine , shot him at point-blank range . Gun powder on Stine , tends to be indicative of this .

I think , also , that the Zodiac's main concern was keeping his left hand out the way , with the possibility of ear-drum damage , a risk that the Zodiac was willing to take .

Any further comments would be appreciated .

Roger

7/19/2020 06:20:49 pm

I have photos here somewhere and have reason to believe the gloves left in Paul Stine's taxi were the same type/style of gloves as used by police motorcycle cops in the 50s/60s. They do indeed look similar to me on comparison. Was the Zodiac leaving behind a little taunt or "clew"?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 06:43:25 pm

Ah....I've always thought that the ''taunt'' was deliberately leaving Stine's trip journey details behind . The information for which , we have never been privy to .

7/19/2020 06:21:54 pm

Never experienced damage from the noise unless you count the ear infections from putting in the plugs to prevent the long term exposure. Two times I lost my equilibrium
from that damage. Both times several days spent not knowing which way was up. Ears still ringing. Never fully goes away. Just learned how to care for them and deal with it.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 06:34:37 pm

Thanks . I presume that the Zodiac had a concealed holster on him ( ? ) , with easy access , so that he could remove the weapon with him , from the crime scene , without much effort .

He was after all , and it would seem , pretending to be a tourist , and probably no baggage , as such , on him . Just clothes with pockets . He took Steins car keys and Stine's wallet....and would have had to have been carrying a wallet and car keys of his own ( probably ).

7/19/2020 06:52:45 pm

It is a too much to carry without a having a satchel or bum bag.
In America it is known as a fanny pack. It is also known as a waist wallet, belt bag, belly bag, chaos pouch, buffalo pouch, hip sack, butt pack, moon bag

https://mahileather.com/blogs/news/the-bum-bag-history-origins-styles

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 07:08:03 pm

I had wondered about that , BB . Back then , in European culture , it was considered '' unmanly '' to have any carrying device . Either your female partner '' carried '' , or you organized yourself with your clothes pockets . Pouches and such like , only became socially accepted in the eighties . ( probably considered a bit '' gay '' , previously )

But , briefcases were always acceptable for men .

7/20/2020 12:53:33 pm

If he wore a work belt as a repair man of some sort - he would have realized the advantages of keeping you things in that - as opposed to - in pockets. If the cops are rolling up on you - you can ditch the pouch in a bush or under a parked car. Then they frisk you and - nothing is found on your person - they have to let you go. You go back later for your stuff.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/19/2020 08:50:44 pm

A further thought on this aspect is the '' A-Z '' seen beside Stine's body .A good chance that that belonged to the Zodiac ( ? ) , and may have been the one item , he did leave behind , accidentally .

More sources of fingerprints ( ? ) .

Looks like he used a handkerchief ( ? ) , for wiping down parts of the car , but not wholly successful

This '' front passenger '' topic has received more debating , recently . My feelings are that the Zodiac's journey from the theatre land vicinity of town , technically was in two parts . In effect , that he picked up Stine's cab , as a back seat passenger - but ended up , as a front seat passenger , as part of his '' design '' .

Stine's widow , Claudia , couldn't understand , in that she knew that cab drivers had always been told to avoid allowing passengers in the front , unless an over-crowing situation warranted it .

There lies the rub ( ? ) - and only the trip sheet can realistically shed light on this conundrum . And , that is why the public have probably never been allowed access to this information .

7/20/2020 07:29:39 am

Group

7/20/2020 10:23:50 am

July 20 1969
51 year ago
Jim Phillips
Arrested
with Don W. Porter
Also in jail were
David W. Ott
Rockie Dixon
was this group
the core group
that made-up
The Zodiac

Rubislaw 32 link

7/20/2020 12:06:38 pm

It's certainly a strange notion , BB , but as time goes on , somehow becomes a more realistic proposition that the phenomenon of the Zodiac , was a core group of moral , and possibly political anarchists .

There is something about Ray Grant's work , that suggests this .

I have been studying the FBI's vault of files quite intensely , for most of the last two years , now ,looking for clues of the Zodiac , and feel confident that I genuinely spot him at least 30% of the times that I believe that I may have spotted him .

He is still one person to me - but without a resolution from an officially recognised source , it will be difficult for anyone to convince anyone else of anything .

So yes , it's always possible . But , surely the larger the group , the greater the chance of its truth emerging ( ? ) , and in a faster time than fifty years .

Or , is it because innocents died, that '' a truth '' can never come out , from the vaults of '' Top Secret '' information ( ? ) .

The '' not knowing '' if we will ever know , is the worst part , and must be 100 times worse for those that lost loved ones .

They feel betrayed .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/20/2020 12:37:16 pm

Sometimes we have to look for humour , however warped ( ? ) , otherwise we would go crazy .

The funniest moment for me , is when Anton LaVey went running to the press , with complaints that he believed that he was receiving threats from the Zodiac .

What ? The head of the Church of Satan , in fear of his life , from a force of evil that he couldn't quite comprehend .

What a fraud , and a theatrical pansy , also .

7/20/2020 01:32:37 pm

His Black House was a few blocks from the October 11 kill site

Iv'e often thought the killer could have hid-out there afterward

Jim knew Anton. He wrote a piece on when his lion attacked the

child of Jane Mansfield there. Jim also knew the Presidio like the

back of his hand. He did 6 months in the Stockade there. He did a

hunger strike protest there too just like the 27 mutineers did there the

year prior. He may have been thinking that the murder of Rusty

Bunch could be a reason to have Stine's killing exactly a year later.

It could be revenge for the Oct 11, 1968 killing of Private Rusty - shot in the back protesting the Presidio Stockade conditions the same way Jim did in the years prior. This being demonstrable of all twelve killings - connection for Jim to all the Zodiac killings. Except like you say Rubislaw - Lake Berryessa. I have a connection there for him though it is very long and you did not want to read it.I admit it is a bit of a difficult read with all the references but it does tie it all together.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/20/2020 02:58:52 pm

Are you able to give the readers , here , a precised explanation for a Jim Phillips link to Lake Berryessa , BB ?

I'm sure most would be '' open ears'' about it .

I think your interpretation on the Zodiac's costume , as being in essence , welder's protective clothing , is spot on .

7/20/2020 04:09:20 pm

Rubislaw

While it would be great if I had the oratory skills to manage a concise
two or three sentence explanation linking Jim to Lake Berryessa.
I have been able to cobble together a convoluted hodge-podge of one under Der Fuhrer Death List. Perhaps with your assistance I could make it more concise. It does have to do with the Welders protective clothing. Sandy Betts has told me that she stood next to Jim and thought he was possibly 5'9". She also said the boots and the Hood could have add 3 to 5 inches to the witnesses mind. And agreed that Jim hung out with her suspect "Honcho" when She was with Don Porter. Jim's brother Paul was murdered by his brother Rick in 1965. Rick could be one of the gang members in the Zodiac killer group/gang as well. He was at the "painting party" lingo for the location of a gang hit. Did they eliminate someone then? I doubt it. But who knows. Richard Gyke was also with Jim in Albany NY. Which is yet another connection to the Zodiac case. And of course Jim has connections to Tahoe. He had connections to many Newspapers. As he had been trying to get on with one for several years - he did work for a short time with more than five that I can find.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/20/2020 02:04:39 pm

Jim should really visit the Zodiac community for some Q&A .

It might be therapeutic for him , if he has nothing to hide . I am aware that he attended one of these annual gatherings to mark the Zodiac attacks . But only once , then never seen again .

Yes , I've seen photos of Anton LaVey's residence . Never seen so much wrought iron , in my life . Perhaps the cost of conducting such a weird form of theatrical entertainment ( ? ) . But , I suppose he provided a service of sorts - something to satisfy a need in some people .

A few years ago , I spent about a month interacting with a Zodiac visitor who claims to have been sexually abused , as a youngster , within the membership of LaVey's followers .

Difficult to know if '' Powerlord '' was really telling the whole truth , or not . I don't see any historical arrests made on LaVey , apart from him being questioned by the FBI over complicity in a plot to assassinate Edward Kennedy . The FBI concluded that LaVey was just a '' professional fraud '' , not unlike a performing illusionist .

So , one presumes he made sure that he always stayed on the right side of the law .

7/20/2020 03:04:31 pm

There is the link between the start of The Church of Satan on Walpurgisnact April 30 1966 and the murder of the Cheri Jo Bates exactly 6 months later. Completing the 666 thing. Then exactly 6 months after Halloween - on May 1st The teen girl Nikki Benedict is killed. Jim then rents a house 6 doors down from hers in Poway.

7/20/2020 05:43:23 pm

If he wore a work belt or a belt bag of some sort - the advantages of keeping your things in one - as opposed to pockets. If the cops are rolling up - you can ditch the pouch in the bushes or under a parked car. When they frisk you and - nothing is found on your person - they have to let you go. You go back later for your stuff.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/20/2020 06:38:16 pm

Those are interesting prospective and/or real relationships ,with possibility of a core group , BB .

I hadn't realised that Jim had lost one brother , to another .

Nor,the Honcho factor emerging .

Voigt has it on record , that he had asked Jim whether Jim knew Dick Gaikowski , which Jim claimed he didn't . and Voigt showed Jim photographs of Gaikowski , which Jim didn't recognise .

When I posted this , Voigt suggested that Jim might be lying . Well , that is always possible I suppose - but that particular relationship doesn't look promising .

It really isn't my purpose to pour cold water , BB , but are we sure that Honcho is one person ( ? ) . Sandy Betts seems to switch his identity between two people , and thought originally , that it was Larry Kane at the Painting Party , before settling on a Larry Kane lookalike .

I think that the theory of a core disruptive group is certainly a possibility , but its personnel make-up may not have been completely established .

The identity of the man in a grey suit at Darlene's painting party is a tantalising thought . The Husted report is an illegally compiled document - but that doesn't mean that elements to it weren't true . There were true elements , but it seems the coming together of these elements don't wholly add up , and were , after all , designed to point the finger of blame on Bill Grant , as being the Zodiac .

The reason that the Vallejo P.D. desired to illustrate this was , because they , the Vallejo P.D. felt harshly judged by the law courts , when the law courts awarded Bill Grant an injunction , for the Vallejo P.D. 's police harassment of Grant .In effect , that the Vallejo PD. believed that they had justifications in carrying out a surveillance operation on Grant .

But , looking back , the Vallejo P.D. dragged Darlene Ferrin's family into the compiling of the Husted Report , for reasons that were not actually in Darlene's family's interests . so , that in itself , was morally wrong , as well as the act of compiling the report , a case of the Vallejo P.D. breaking the law , for the second time , in three years .

Yes , a law enforcement agency ( Vallejo P.D. ) breaking the law , not once , but twice ( ! ) in a short period of time , over matters related to a high-profile criminal case .

The CA DOJ must have been tearing their hair out ( ? ) , and subsequently , the Vallejo P.D. have had no meaningful remit , with respect to the Zodiac case , ever since .

But...back to the painting party . The '' onus '' was on the Vallejo P.D. to '' make '' the grey suited man's identity as Bill Grant , and therefore exerted unfair pressure on Darlene's family , to claim it so .

Robert Graysmith had been hoping that Darlene's family would claim that the man was Arthur Leigh Allen , and Sandy Betts had been hoping that Darlene's family would claim that it was whoever Sandy's current suspect was , at that time . But no , Darlene's family plumped for Bill Grant - which made for convenient chapter for the Vallejo P.D. , in the Husted Report .

Darlene's family became unfortunate pawns , and indeed victims , in all this mess of the Vallejo P.D.'s making .

I am convinced that there was a grey suited man , who did attend Darlene's painting party . And , that that man was probably the Zodiac .

But , to this day , there is only one person that knew , conclusively , the identity of the grey suited man - and that is the late lamented Darlene Ferrin .

Roger

7/20/2020 07:34:46 pm

Wasn't Honcho the name of Darlene's dog? Haha! The whole Honcho thing seems to have emerged from a single missing photo in an old photo album captioned "Jim, me and Honcho" or something along those lines. So we have to trust the word of Sandy Betts that Honcho was a man who was somehow acquainted to Darlene and Jim, but there is never any real proof (as per usual!). We are asked to believe that just because this photo is missing this makes it "suspicious". And it seems from that single missing photo, we have the extrapolation (or rather manifestation) of the Honcho persona. I personally find it all a bit too "convenient". :)

Rubislaw 32 link

7/20/2020 09:03:29 pm

Well , Roger , I think that Ms.Betts has been well and truly '' bawled out '' in the last year . She has been chopping and changing her minds , over suspects , since Lake Herman Road , over 51 years ago .

Sadly , a desperation to '' stay in the game '' , and a '' belonging '' beyond what was reasonably credulous.....going all the way back to '' Paul '' , and his predilection for Bloody Mary's and liking of '' Proud Mary '' by Creedence Clearwater Revival . ( '' It was him !! '' ) .

Now , finally Mr.Voigt , also , with seemingly not one real positive vote for Mr.Gyke at the Reddit site , with its now 34,000 membership .
I always felt that '' Jack the Dalmation '' , belonging to a certain Mr.Qvale would have made for the best witness on Washington Street . Just a shame that Dr.Doolittle wasn't around to ask him what he saw ( ? ) .

Roger

7/21/2020 02:44:11 am

I believe I may know the identity of Ms Betts' Honcho. He is a near perfect match for the man in her photos and even has the scar in the same place. He has been a long time resident of the Vallejo area. The extent of his criminal record seems to be a period of petty crime, mainly stealing. One thing is clear to me, he is not the Zodiac.

Roger

7/21/2020 03:59:17 pm

Oh, and he does not use the name Honcho and never has, nor does he drive anything with "KoKo" on his plates! lol.

Jack

7/21/2020 12:41:45 am

How’s your belly off for spots?

7/21/2020 09:49:09 am

Hey Jack - I had to catch some Z's - got the old aches to get rested up.
I served in three separate conflicts with nothing to show for - except the
scars. But it's a new day and got to help the search for the identity of - what I don't know. All I can do is read and speculate and ask for others to help too. We have to be objective and encourage each other most.
Who knows what the day will bring?

Jack

7/21/2020 02:02:23 pm

Thanks BB, when Rubislaw referenced Qvale's Dalmation breed of (talking) dog, that line came back to me over the decades from the British comedy: 'You Rang M'Lord?'. There's an episode in which Noël Coward, played by the hilarious Guy Siner is asked to say something witty to the visiting king of Dalmatia. LOL. I'm half-English, but I had to look up that colloquialism. ...

"Three separate conflicts," you say -- Man, you've earned some serious R&R for "retirement"! Cheers, and credit to you for keeping the Z research going.

7/21/2020 04:10:37 pm

John Lovell Horsley was born one hundred years ago today 21 July 1920

He played Sir Ralph a member of London society, married to Lady Agatha

I think the episode you're talking about is called "Royal Flush" from 1991

I am also half English according to my parents - but what do they know LOL

Jack

7/21/2020 04:28:19 pm

The late, J.L. Horsley, yes- I remember Sir Ralph... and the actor was the Doc in the 'Reginald Perrin' series, oft prescribing: "Take two aspirins." (lol) I had no idea today was the century mark of his birthday, thanks for that info!

Rubislaw 32 link

7/21/2020 07:37:11 am

This could be the start of having '' 101'' on the brain ( ? )

Highway 101 , with which the Zodiac '' may have '' commuted between his then work home in Vallejo , and his primary home on the west side of Los Angeles .

101 '' all seeing '' Dalmations .

Room 101 where Eric Weil and Tom Voigt have been assigned , by law enforcement , with Goldcatcher and Ms.Betts probably now taking their own places , as part of the pantheon of Zodiac kooks in the annuls of the case .

Voigt : '' I have no reason to doubt what Sandy tells me .''

Betts : '' I have never known Tom to make up a lie .''

Hmmm........

7/21/2020 09:59:10 am

I made the mention of Honcho to point out yet another link to Jim. He's connected to everything.
His dad was Diamond Bell Phillips, a renown CHP officer.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/21/2020 10:23:55 am

Yes ,BB , is certainly a '' main player '' in the whole opera , often and largely forgotten....particularly in the internet era .

In the early days of the case , the local press were too interested in the unfolding of the case , to generally concern themselves about suspects . Presumably , because they , the press , thought it only a matter of time before the police would arrest someone , and then they would have yet another aspect to the case , with which to focus .

But , as time started to move on , and with no arrest in sight , the press did start to talk among themselves more . From what I am led to believe , the newsroom talk was really only about Allen and Grant .

And , both turned out to be almost certainly innocent .

7/21/2020 01:50:24 pm

Jim denied knowledge of Darlene's death.

Many many lies he's told - why - because he's involved.

You know how you can tell when a man kills someone he knows?
He is not curious as to who the killer was. Or what happened. Why?
Because he knows and does not want you to know.
She (Dee) was scared of Jim for more than the beatings.

Roger

7/21/2020 04:09:28 pm

I agree, his behavior has always been suspicious, but I wonder how much of this could be simply the result of drug-taking and various associated anti-social disorders and paranoia? In any case, far too much time has passed now. I certainly do wonder if the entire Zodiac case was related to drugs, drug taking, people owing money, and vendettas; which could ultimately lead to many individuals and this could also imply that there was more than one "Zodiac". Really, the entire Zodiac case makes no sense. It is all over the place and crazy. The only way crazy cases like this one do sometimes make sense is once we find out drugs were involved, and then often we discover that more than one individual was involved. There may well have been more than one individual making up the "Zodiac" mystique, but I wonder who was dominant and perhaps in the background "pulling the strings" of the other puppets, so to speak? As you suggest BB, when people seem evasive, vague, and unwilling to cooperate, this generally means they have something to hide. There is much more to this case than what we see on the surface. Dig a little deeper and we find a veritable "can of worms". Cops and detectives tend to like to "keep things simple" and they often seek to avoid such cans of worms. The problem is the Zodiac case has always been a very complex one - it is a "can of worms" - which is why it has never been satisfactorily resolved.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/21/2020 10:58:28 am

From what I have gathered about the painting party , when guests turned up , they saw Dean painting the outside of their house , and were free to join him , or go indoors. Most went indoors .

The party was concentrated mostly in a front room , and the kitchen , with anyone free to use a designated bedroom , for the purposes of smoking weed .

Darlene took her responsibilities as the host , seriously , and flitted between the front room and kitchen , She saw herself as the provider of food snacks , in particular .

Had the man in the grey suit been Jim , then he would have been later identified by Pam who , turned up to assist Darlene keep an eye on a sleeping Deana .

From what I have read or heard , the man in the grey suit does appear to have not known anyone , apart from Darlene .At one point he started following Darlene around , and asking her where she got the money to pay for what she had acquired .

I suspect that Darlene invited the man , as a ''relative stranger '' , to give him the opportunity to meet new people - but he only seemed to be interested in Darlene ....to Darlene's slight annoyance .

One doesn't wish to pour scorn on the guests , but how many of them were stoned ( ? )....or indeed , turned up with the desire to meet new people , like the grey suited man .

I don't know the quantity of guests , but it does seemed to have turned out to be a quite '' busy '' party . But , no one really seems to be sure as to the identity of the man in a grey suit .

Perhaps , he left early , anyway ( ? ) .

7/21/2020 11:08:00 am

Honcho in the military means the guy in charge.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/21/2020 07:35:31 pm

Some interesting titbits :

Brigadier is '' Taxiarchos '' in Greek , with the word '' Taxis '' meaning '' Military Orders ''.

Brigadier General Matrix ( Zodiac ? ) , Brigadier General Jack D Ripper ( Dr.Strangelove ) .

'' Caid '' means '' Captain '' in Arabic .

'' Caidoz '' equates to '' Captain Oz '' , which is '' Zodiac '' in reverse .

'' Oz '' was a well known and controversial London-based underground journal , at the time of the Zodiac's reign of terror .

7/21/2020 05:33:18 pm

Speaking of head honcho.

Where are you Richard Grinell?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 03:07:33 am

Well , well , well .....Did lightening strike twice , for WXIA-TV of 1611 West Peachtree Street , Atlanta , and all inside 15 months ?

It certainly does seem to have...but the FBI failed to inform everyone . But , I suppose that's nothing new from the FBI .

To get to the point :

On March 8th 1981 ,the presumed Zodiac sent a letter to this TV station in Atlanta . Starting with '' Hello it's me '' , the Zodiac went on to inform everyone of how easy it was to pick off the children . Signing off with '' Zodiac '' .

But , lo and behold , just 15 months earlier , '' someone'' claiming to be D B Cooper , with a similar amount of bluster , couldn't resist a bit of banter with the Atlanta TV Station , on December 31st 1979 . And , duly signed off with :

'' I wish you a Happy New Year and thank you for the opportunity to communicate after 10 years....D B Cooper ''

Surely '' Zodiac '' and '' D B Cooper '' couldn't be '' one and the same '' ?

More is the point... do the FBI documents analysts actually achieve any useful work ?

Not looking very impressive ...more like '' scrapbook collectors '' ( ? ) .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 03:48:53 am

I really do have to say , that I am close to '' speechless '' .

Whoever took over Dan Cooper's mantle , with correspondences , did so within days of his hijacking escapade . So , one can understand the FBI having to get their figurative bearings right . But surely , with the Zodiac's Exorcist Letter , in January 1974 , the FBI must have , at least , started to have their suspicions over Zodiac's '' expansionism '' with his hoaxing ( ? ) .

The FBI officially closed down the D B Cooper case , four years ago . But , the '' Zodiac '' letter to 1611 West Peachtree Street , thirty-five years earlier....simply MUST have set off alarm bells ringing in their ears , in light of the apparent '' D B Cooper '' letter to the very same Atlanta TV Station , just 15 MONTHS EARLIER !

What on earth were the FBI thinking ( ? ) . Or, was this yet another example of gross incompetence , with the Zodiac Killer case .

If , as is more than likely , the penny finally dropped for the FBI , in 2016 , how is it that it took them 35 YEARS ? ! !

Toots

7/22/2020 06:44:11 am

GEDmatch has been hacked on July 19.
DNA kits from kits from the European Union that are protected by GDPR privacy laws were also affected.

https://thednageek.com/gedmatch-goes-haywire/

https://techcrunch.com/2020/07/19/gedmatch-investigating-dna-profile-law-enforcement/

This isn't good.

Richard

7/22/2020 07:02:19 am

My computer broke down about 6 to 7 weeks ago BB, so I haven't been able to access the internet until yesterday. I bought a refurbished computer on Tuesday until the other one gets repaired. Not the time to have a computer break down with all non-essential shops closed. Unfortunately "I am back with you" now. Hi.

Toots

7/22/2020 09:14:08 am

Richard, Great to have you back.

Did your computer get hacked?

Richard

7/22/2020 10:58:12 am

No Toots, I had a background process "windows updates" running at 60/70%, thereby making my computer run erratically and slowly. Returned my computer back to factory settings and it wiped Windows 10. Tried rebooting, but couldn't get my computer to work again. Nothing worth hacking on my computer anyway. Nice to be back.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 09:06:52 am

All a bit strange , what is going on , Richard , but very nice to hear from you .

I will post , about my perceptions of an FBI '' debacle '' over a cross-over of the Zodiac and D B Cooper correspondences , at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net

You have probably seen BB's enthusiasm and hard work ethic keep this comments section going . Inspiration in buckets to keep me interested , anyway .

Toots and I have been '' doing our thing '' , in the big wide world out there , and I really must go back , to giving people with perceived influence , a right good '' ear-bashing '' .

Ciao , for now.....are we close to something happening , of consequence ?

Could be .

Richard

7/22/2020 11:13:26 am

I was shocked by the 450 odd comments. Actually losing the internet was quite refreshing, because sometimes you get stuck in a rut. However, after watching 6 weeks worth of Judge Judy, CSI Miami, CSI New York, Diagnosis Murder and Murder She Wrote, I was beginning to lose all sanity. But it still reminded me that Columbo is the best TV programme ever produced in America. Peter Falk was a legend - great show that never tires.

7/22/2020 01:13:44 pm

The comments are things you've probably heard several times before.

As far as being trapped at home.
I've caught up on all my projects I had going around the house.
I've got the truck running that has been sitting for over a year.
Next I'm clearing out the garage.
My neighbor's have never seen me out so much.
Who is this big dumb ass they're thinking.
I see them looking and just wave.
The old lady across the street saw what a great handy man
I was - that she has me doing the odd job for free. I don't know
how to break this off with-out seeming rude.

Roger

7/22/2020 05:34:55 pm

Columbo was apparently based loosely on Detective Toschi, who had a penchant for bow ties and wearing exaggerated trenchcoats. On the rare occasions when Columbo was "out of uniform" in a social setting, he was shown wearing a bow tie. :)

7/22/2020 09:13:45 am

Richard - I was starting to think the FBI's men in black might have gotten to you. LOL

Richard

7/22/2020 11:05:43 am

Now that would be fun. There fortunately is no NSA here.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 12:37:48 pm

Well , they've had two agents installed at Gartcosh , on rotation , for the last 6 years .

They just send them up , from the American Embassy in London which , is just '' heaving '' with agents . CIA , FBI , NSA .....you name it , they're all there , busy as beavers .

One of them kept me on the phone , for over an hour , pretending to be a mature student finishing a Phd in Psychology , at Sterling University . When I phoned back , a couple of weeks later , the University did actually carry out an investigation , and found that the Department of Psychology didn't have any Phd students , for that Academic year .

They can always be ''rumbled''.....except that of course , they've already '' done their thing '' , by the time one finds out .

Toots

7/22/2020 10:44:00 am

Lots of Sandys and lots of nurses;

Sandy 5/31/63 Vern Smith and "Sandy", Lompoc, CA.
Sandy 2/23/68 Patricia Docker, had a 4 yr old son, Sandy
Sandy Sandy Betts
Sandy 2/11/80 friend of Elizabeth McCabe, Sandra Niven
Sandy 4/10/88 Sandy Lee Hailey, Colonial Pakway

Nurse 2/23/68 Patricia Docker, nurse
Nurse 3/7/70 Judith Hakari, nurse
Nurse 9/6/70 Donna Lass, nurse
Nurse 11/13/70 Carol Hilburn, nurse
Nurse 12/24/76 Faye S. Nelson, nurse
Nurse 2/11/80 Elizabeth McCabe, nurse trainee

7/23/2020 10:47:09 am

Hey Toots

Documentary here puts things together

ZODIAC KILLER DEFINITIVE IDENTITY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DDx5Fvq5uk

It is very good that you focused on the name Sandy

It made me think of the Don and Sandy duo

On the Dragon card

The Zodiac Killer wrote "I hope you enjoy yourselves when I have my blast" around the picture of Don Quixote and Sancho Panza, the characters in a novel by Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/category/dragon-card

Also Don Cheney's BFF was Sandy Panzarella

Sandy Panzarella was played by the actor Paul Schulze (PS) in 2007 Zodiac
https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=Sandy+Panzarella&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

This is not a mere coincidence

Don and Sandy are definitely involved in the Zodiac killer conspiracy

7/24/2020 09:11:03 am

Hey Toots - Where you at?

Toots

7/24/2020 12:35:48 pm

USA, east coast

7/24/2020 12:46:13 pm

Thanks pal

I was actually hoping you read the above post 7/23/2020 10:47 am - on Sandy

Looking forward to your take

Toots

7/24/2020 01:06:52 pm

Thanks BB, I did read your Sandy comments.
Is the name "Sancho" really also "Sandy" in English?...I couldn't find any evidence of this in baby name research?

I do agree with you regarding the proximity of the GG Park Police bombing and the Don/Sancho statue...with the Dragon Card, "blast".

My suspect wrote about a "Sandy" in the same story as a known murderer...fancy that?

7/24/2020 02:53:22 pm

Toots - What known murderer?

Maybe his nickname is (Sancho)

Don Quixote and Sancho Panza

are friends with just such similar names to

Don Cheney and Sandy Panzarella

that the idea of a coincidence is absurd

Toots

7/22/2020 01:13:54 pm

I find it slightly disturbing that 2 days after I tell
Scottish Homicide Gov & Review to check dna at GEDmatch...

GEDmatch gets hacked and shutdown on July 19.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 01:33:41 pm

I do think that '' Big Brother '' is lurking , Toots .

A few days ago , I got shut-out from the FBI Files , while I was actually using them ( D B Cooper ).

It seems that it was actually down to my '' postcode '' , let alone a more general region reason .

I think they knew that I had already performed a solve , on the codes provided with the '' I knew '' letter , which I had posted at the '' ZKM '' site . These differ from a Tom Colbert disciple who , claimed three years ago that the codes proved that Robert Rackstraw was Dan Cooper .

So , I was looking for further codes that the FBI may have provided for both the Seattle Times and New York Times newspapers . But , '' nothing doing '' , as it transpires when I was allowed back , after 48 hours .

But nonetheless , I have found a '' transparent '' link between the Zodiac and '' D B Cooper '' over the TV Station at Atlanta . So , ''something'' anyway . But , like uncovering the Celebrity Cypher postcard picture....one is only really '' re-treading '' in the FBI's footsteps .

Toots

7/22/2020 02:08:50 pm

Yes, Rubislaw, I recall you mentioning that. I was also looking at the files, but going back and forth between the FBI vault and some other link that downloaded them.

Am I correct, that FBI has dna of "DB Cooper" from his tie clip? Anything else like fingerprints?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 02:38:23 pm

Yes indeed , Toots , the FBI claim that they have DNA from the man that jumped out of a 727 with $200,000 and two parachutes .

Some folk are not up to speed , on this , but understandably so .

The claiming , by the FBI , became public knowledge when Tom Colbert took the FBI to court , on account of claiming that the FBI were withholding information from Tom Colbert , on account that they , the FBI , knew that Robert Rackstraw was Dan Cooper .

The FBI denied that this was the case , and inferred that they did not believe that Robert Rackstraw was Dan Cooper . So , the DNA profile , garnered from the hijacker was their evidence to prove that it was not a match to Robert Rackstraw .

Tom Colbert has gone a bit quiet , since , but always the '' trooper '' , is still convinced that Robert Rackstraw was '' The Last Outlaw '' .

( ..a bit like Voigt and Gyke ( ? )...but , at least Colbert wasn't playing ''Mickey Mouse '' games....)

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 02:45:35 pm

....oh , '' officially '' no fingerprints belonging to the hijacker , that are usable . But , one can never be sure....what about the double bourbon and 7-up that he downed before he jumped ( ? ) .

Toots

7/22/2020 03:49:34 pm

Regarding DB Cooper, I've read vague reports of where he jumped out of plane. One report says Woodland, Washington, others just say somewhere between Seattle and Reno. You've got to be kidding me..that's a big area. Left on plane, black tie with mother of pearl clip.

The date of the hijack was the day before Thanksgiving. Not only is that a nice tie in to Zodiac's holidays...it clearly shows me that this guy either didn't have a family...or he cared not to be with them on Thanksgiving.

3 months before the hijack on 8/19/71, the murder of Annie Marie Lehman. Mile Post 35, Redwood Highway, Josephine County, Oregon. Near Cave Junction, Oregon

Found, mother of Pearl ring, scratched "AL".
No way Lehman would have scratched her own initials into her ring. Had to be done by perp.

Any chance the murderer of Lehman was scoping out the area before his hijack?

Two clues deliberately left with mother of Pearl.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/22/2020 04:21:25 pm

Very interesting what you say , Toots .

Up to recently , my only interest really , was if the Zodiac had been responsible of a number of correspondences , attributed to Dan Cooper .

But , one can't help being drawn into the whole Dan Cooper case .

The sense , so far , is that there was an element of '' devil may care '' and '' hell or high water '' about what Dan Cooper did . He was , apparently , at all times a gentleman in his conduct , and confident enough to simply show the apparent bomb , without showing any great emotion about it . The crew just wanted no trouble , and believed rightly , that if they satisfied Cooper , he would leave them in one piece . Which is exactly what happened .

Cooper it seems , had done his homework and knew that a 727 was the safest jet airliner , from which to jump .So ,he obviously was confident also , of seeing the task through to its completion .

Question marks are , that if as seems likely , he already had prior experience of jumping , then he must have known that his chances , with weather , darkness and terrain , were not good for him to survive .

Also , that he could have asked for $ 1,000,000 and more than likely , received it . There was an element of perception that Cooper had sold his endangered life , quite cheaply .

So , perhaps a '' half '' death wish there , in that he may have done something recently , for which he felt regretful .

That , perhaps , he was in two minds of caring if he , himself , lived or died .

Scott

7/22/2020 03:37:59 pm

Welcome back Richard I for one missed your firehose of insight.

Richard

7/22/2020 03:44:47 pm

Thanks Scott, glad to catch up on things.

Toots

7/24/2020 03:28:52 pm

BB,
Sorry, I see it now. Yes I agree, 2 friends with very similar names...Don and San*.
You are right, thats not a coincidence and exactly the type of games Z was into.

The murderer's name in my suspect's story wasnt a Sandy or Rancho. He was the convicted murderer in the movie Foxcatcher. My suspect had a friendship with a General in the military named Sandy that was involved in that story. My theory is the only reason he wrote about it...was bec/ it was a clue...for someone to pick up on that knew the Z history.

8/8/2020 11:12:27 am

Toots - Please clarify

Toots

8/11/2020 07:23:25 am

In 1996, John du Pont murdered Olympic wrestler Dave Schultz. Earlier in the eighties, he donated a sizeable sum to a university. The story I was told, dont know if it was true or not, was that prior to that donation he wanted to donate to a different school but the school turned him down because of their research into the odd du Pont. My suspect was told this story by the President of the school, Lieutenant General Alexander (Sandy) Weyand. My suspect wrote about this in his memoir. My theory is because he wanted sleuths like us to make the connection of a murderer, with the name "Sandy" and with him.

Another chapter of his memoir describe himself climbing into the back seat of a Renault car which is inside a cargo plane...en route to the Vietnam War. He describes the hellish events about to unfold. Now, if you are a Zodiac sleuth, you would pick up on the clues of this with the similarity of Blue Rock Springs. Michael Renault Mageau also climbed into the back seat of a car before a hellish event.

My suspect also had a sister named Judith who was killed.

Stab in the Dark

8/11/2020 05:08:11 pm

Sounds like a case of clutching at straws based on an overload of spurious internet chatter if you ask me. Du Pont had a VERY obvious and characteristic big nose, and a long, rather gaunt face, rather thin features throughout. No Zodiac witness ever described a scrawny man with a big nose. Quite the opposite in fact. And how can you place Du Pont at ANY of the crime scenes way back in the 1960s?

Toots

8/11/2020 05:13:54 pm

I never said Du Pont was Z...you obviously didnt understand my post...you need to re-read it.

Stab in the Dark

8/11/2020 06:48:32 pm

My apologies but you cannot blame anybody for being confused. You are being rather obscure and guarded. So your suspect was not du Pont but someone else who wrote about these things in his memoirs and he had a sister named Judith who was killed? So that kind of suggests he must have been someone who knew du Pont well enough to include him in his memoirs. I am guessing the person must still be alive or you intend to release a "reveal all" theory in future. The entire Sandy train of clues leads us everywhere and nowhere. I doubt any kind of Sandy connection ever existed in the Zodiac case. From what I have researched, everything about their being phantoms named "Sandy" are related more to gossip than anything factual. I generally view anything related to "Sandy" as a derailment from the Zodiac case.

8/28/2020 02:25:28 pm

http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR62.html

This suspect is the most educated suspect in ciphers we have.

But everyone is waiting until he dies to say anything.

Toots

8/11/2020 07:47:19 pm

Stab in the Dark,
Yes, you are correct, the Z case is extremely confusing. If it wasn't, it would've been solved many years ago.

Yes, they shared many similarities, connections, and knew of each other.

Respecting Richard's wishes, this site isn't exactly the space to name victims. That's the job of law enforcement, and I've given them everything.

8/26/2020 10:42:27 am

Jeff Qvale is on the right. His father Kjell middle then tall younger brother Bruce far left.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/scardigest/wp-content/uploads/Qvale-SF-Showroom.jpg

Roger

8/26/2020 06:36:31 pm

Nice photo BB! Not sure why you are posting this, but none of these guys look much like the "common" slob that Bryan Hartnell described his attacker to be... least of all Kjell. I am actually surprised that the accusations stopped at Mr Q. Lots of other sports car enthusiasts looked like the Zodiac sketch and lived in or close to San Francisco at the time. I guess the only reason Mr Q got fingered was because he was allegedly out walking his pooch after a murder had been committed nearby. Even serial killers have to walk their dogs apparently!

8/28/2020 06:17:12 pm

Theodore John Kaczynski (born May 22, 1942), the Unabomber
Looking on Wikipedia
I saw where FBI Profiler had Zodiac a decade younger than Ted.
I noticed, Jeff Kjell was born in 1952 and just wanted to find a pic.
Hmmmmm?

Personally, I have him born before 1946
though, to be at least 17 in 1962
However, he is just the coddled killer.
He seems managed by a larger figure.
Let out of his cage to reek havoc.
The Wizard of Oz-odiac - That is the benefactor.
He was supported - not unwittingly.

8/27/2020 01:19:01 pm

I really don't know.
No-one has ever been able to honestly answer the question of "why"?
Except, as in Spanish the notion of that question "why" is the same as "because".
The answer is the question it-self.
"Por qué, porque" Why - Because.
The only honest answer other than that - they say - to question "why" - is - I don't know.
I ask myself that question everyday.
I suppose it is the nature of this murder mystery.
If we knew why the Zodiac killed - perhaps that answer would reveal the killer/s identity.
Some say it was for love/attention/notoriety/fame.
Others say it was for hate/rage/a sick form of vengeance.
I don't know why. How bout you?

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