ZODIAC CIPHERS
Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
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A STONE'S THROW AWAY

11/30/2017

 
​The following will be a further in depth examination of the area around the payphone at the intersection of Springs Road and Tuolumne Street, where the Zodiac Killer placed a phone call to police dispatcher Nancy Slover at 12:40 am on July 5th 1969.
Firstly, we will take a closer look into the possibility the Zodiac Killer placed three phone calls rather than the accepted two, beginning on December 20th 1968, shortly after the double murder of David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen on Lake Herman Road.
PicturePierre Bidou
Pierre Bidou, one of the responding officers to the Lake Herman Road murders was interviewed by the Benicia Herald, in which was stated "Bidou and his partner had served a warrant on a Lake Herman Road cabin Dec. 20, 1968, and were on their way to deposit some marijuana in the police department’s evidence locker when they were dispatched back to Lake Herman Road. Initially, they were told a woman was lying outside a car; they thought they were being sent to a crash. Police at first speculated it might have been a crank call, but the officers headed back north. But when they arrived, Bidou realized it was no crank call and no car accident. Instead, it was a sinister crime scene".

If true, somebody may have phoned the police to report a car accident - although it was perceived as a crank call. ​Clearly, something must have triggered this belief, as a car accident is not something to be taken lightly, yet it was perceived as suspect. This phone call (if placed) must have been received between the time of the murders and 11:25 pm, the earliest time that Captain Daniel Pitta received the disturbing account of Stella Medeiros and then radioed in to police headquarters. There should be no conceivable reason why a respected officer of the law, radioing in on police frequency the account of Stella Medeiros (Borges) about bodies on the ground, should be construed as a crank call, unless shortly before or around the same time they had received another incoming call pertaining to a car accident on Lake Herman Road. If this phone call had been placed by an unknown party, they would have rang police literally minutes after the murders.
 
The last person to pass the fateful turnout prior to the murders was James Owen, estimated between 11:09 -11:14 pm. The phone call (if the murderer), would indicate the payphone used to have been approximately 10 to 15 minutes away from the Lake Herman Road turnout, had he traveled directly there. This is because Officer Pierre Bidou received the information about the crank call as he and his partner were "on their way to deposit some marijuana in the police department’s evidence locker", after which they immediately returned back to Lake Herman Road. We know his approximate time of arrival at the crime scene and therefore the approximate time he was dispatched to it. This ties nicely with a potential phone call from the Zodiac Killer, delivered from the exact payphone he used after the Blue Rock Springs Park attack on Michael Mageau and Darlene Ferrin. This payphone is 11 to 13 minutes traveling time from the Lake Herman Road turnout.     

Picture
If this call was the Zodiac Killer, why didn't he just lay claim to the murders as he had done in his two following attacks. He may simply have just gained pleasure by calling it in and describing it as a car accident, toying with police - or does his following two phone calls give us a clue. If he had spotted a potential eyewitness near the payphone, he may have instinctively changed the message from a double murder to a car accident, thereby avoiding any future ramifications had he somehow been traced. He then would have only been a concerned citizen. Did this influence his method of operation on July 5th 1969?

In the August 4th 1969 'Debut of Zodiac' letter he stated "I drove away quite slowly so as not to draw attention to my car. The man who told police that my car was brown was a negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed. I was in this phone booth having some fun with the Vallejo cop when he was walking by. When I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car". There are several reasons to believe the Zodiac Killer invented this eyewitness, but not the ringing payphone. The way he constructed this passage of text may be extremely well thought out, to give the impression he was still in his vehicle, as opposed to on foot. Had he parked his vehicle at his residence and walked to the payphone, the last thing he wanted to do is reveal this to investigators, as reconstructing the timeline would place his residence in the very near vicinity.
The first section of the passage is effectively true -  he drove away from the scene of the crime in his car. He then immediately reinforces the idea to police that he is still in his vehicle, by offering up a potential eyewitness to the said vehicle and giving up unnecessary details about the eyewitness in an attempt to make him more real, such as his age range and mode of dress. Information that not only could be helpful to police in possibly tracking the eyewitness down, but also an eyewitness who potentially could reinforce the notion his vehicle was brown (knowing he would never be found, because he didn't exist). The Zodiac Killer, having read the newspaper reports of his vehicle being described as brown by Michael Mageau, is effectively using the negro male to corroborate the color of his vehicle - which may indicate his vehicle was anything but brown. A killer offering up useful information to investigators has to be viewed with suspicion. 

Finally, just in case the police hadn't got the message, he delivers his car into the passage for a third time: "
When I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car". The phone rang - but there was no vehicle. The ringing payphone could have drawn attention to him in the early morning hours, and may have been the reason he left the receiver off the hook at 1231 Main Street, Napa, after the Lake Berryessa attack on Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard. The ringing payphone was the perfect opportunity to fictitiously place his brown car at the payphone and corroborate the 'fact' by an over-detailed description of an eyewitness. Using this hypothesis and the time of the shooting, would likely place the killer's residence within a 15-20 minute walking radius of the payphone. His experiences after the Lake Herman Road murders may have influenced his decision to place the phone call without his car in tow, and lessen the risk of his vehicle being connected to that location.    

Picture
After the Lake Berryessa attack, the Zodiac Killer was possibly heading along California State Route 29 towards Vallejo, where many observers believe he lived. The western edge of Tuolumne Street by Flosden Acres, borders this route, so would take the killer to the area just north of the payphone. Whether he took this route is obviously unknown, but his directional movement after the first two crimes may possibly suggest this is a viable option. 

The Zodiac Killer in all likelihood didn't know any of his victims, but this cannot be totally ruled out. David Faraday was present on Sonoma Boulevard four hours prior to his murder. The 4th July 1969 annual parade in Vallejo began at 10:00 am and traveled south on Sonoma Boulevard. Darlene Ferrin went to the lighted boat parade the evening of her death.
Ricardo Gomez of MK Zodiac has written an excellent article on this topic, with a possible connection to the Zodiac 408 cipher and the Zodiac 'buttons'.
 
On page 31 of the LHR police report it states "Joe was interviewed at the Faraday residence, 1930 Sereno Drive. He was a personal friend of David. He states David had no enemies to his knowledge. David met Betty Lou approximately a week ago at the Pythian Castle where they were decorating the hall for a social event". 
On page 53 it states "Mrs Faraday stated she did not know Betty Lou that she and David had only been going together for a short time, she had never met Betty Lou. She stated she did not know of any enemies David may have had. She stated that on Friday night at 7.10 pm David drove his sister Debbie to a meeting of the Rainbow Girls at the Pythian Castle on Sonoma Boulevard, and David came back home at 7.20 pm and left again at 7.30 pm. Responding officer talked to Debbie Faraday, WFJ 16 years, sister of David. She relates the following David told her on the afternoon of Friday 12/20/68 that he was going out to Lake Herman Road that night because a bunch of the kids were going out there that night".
 
​
What is the likelihood Zodiac resided close to the intersection of Springs Road and Tuolumne Street, and had crossed paths with some of his victims in this neighborhood? Did his profession give him intimate knowledge of the movements or plans of his young victims? A serial killer usually begins his crimes close to home, somewhere he is familiar with, before he eventually gains in confidence and ventures further afield. So, if the Zodiac Killer had lived in Vallejo near the payphone, he would use victim availability, the least effort principle and a buffer zone to select his first attacks (both on Friday), particularly if he worked 9-5, Monday to Friday, in which time constraints would obviously have a bearing. A recent survey in Germany studied the locations of serial killer victims in respect to the killer's home residence and found that 63% of the time the killer lived within a 6 mile traveling distance to the crime scene. So putting all these factors together, we could expect the Zodiac Killer's first murders at Lake Herman Road on December 20th 1968 and Blue Rock Springs Park on July 4th 1969 to be only a matter of a few miles from his house. The payphone is 6.2 miles from the turnout at Lake Herman Road and 3.6 miles from Blue Rock Springs Park.

Picture
We also have to consider that if the Zodiac Killer lived further away from the payphone area, such as American Canyon, Napa or San Francisco, why didn't he apply a greater buffer zone from the crime scene to his choice of payphone, as opposed to making the phone call only 3.6 miles (2.85 miles as the crow flies) from the crime scene and extremely close to the police station. Possibly, because in his early crimes he chose to take less risk - his objective being to head home almost immediately to discard the weapon and secure his vehicle. His third and fourth crimes showed increased confidence, but crucially both were on a Saturday, therefore he was less constrained by time, had he worked during the week. 

The Zodiac Killer's first two attacks in remote areas may have indicated that he trolled Lake Herman Road and Columbus Parkway looking to find victims. This would suggest a prior knowledge of these areas being frequented by courting couples. ​"David told Debbie on the afternoon of Friday 12/20/68 that he was going out to Lake Herman Road that night because a bunch of the kids were going out there that night". Was the killer aware of these plans? Did he track Darlene Ferrin after the parade? It may be unlikely, but these questions have to be asked. 

Additionally, would a killer who didn't live in the near vicinity of the crimes, have such a good grasp of his spatial awareness. In the July 31st 1969 letters he stated the "Girl was lyeing on right side feet to west", and contrary to popular belief, his payphone directions were also fairly accurate, if taken from either the payphone or police station. He stated "I wish to report a double murder. If you will go one mile east...... on Columbus Parkway to a public park, you will find the kids in a brown car. They have been shot by a 9 mm Luger. I also killed those kids last year.... Good-bye"  When you insert a break or comma after "east", the directions are perfectly fine, other than "one mile east" should have been "1.34 miles east on Springs Road".  Columbus Parkway is east of the payphone and police station. His compass directions were correct in both instances. He could of course (if unsure) have checked a map prior to the Blue Rock Springs attack, but that would rely on knowing in advance exactly where his attack was going to take place. He could have checked a map after the attack and before the payphone call. Or he could have known the area well.

THE ADDITION OF ONE FULL STOP - Examining the phone call after the BRS attack and showing the directions given by the killer were correct.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/30/2017 03:07:06 pm

An interesting article,Richard,asking the perennial questions.....but two of the most important,in my mind :

i] Did Zodiac reside in close proximity,to some of his murders ?

ii] Did Zodiac personally know any of his victims ?

I am confident that ''i'' is an emphatic ''yes'',with regard to Lake Herman Road,and Blue Rock Springs.

The second question,is more difficult to assess.There may have been a combination of a ''close ear'' to local gossip,and actual stalking,in all ''confirmed'' cases,except Paul Stine,which I believe was a case of stalking taxi driver's habits,collectively.

But really,as so often happens [?],this comes down to Darlene Ferrin.I have always been about 50:50 on whether,she and Zodiac,were ''more than familiar''.More recently,up to 75:25,that they knew each other well.Though,more from the past,and in another place.

My inclinations are that Zodiac's relatively new working circumstances meant that he would be bumping into Darlene.''Awareness'' for both of them,did not go well,though....and in the end,turned to tragedy.

It is still a struggle though,to understand why LE could not solve this case,if Darlene and Zodiac were very familiar,with each other [?].

Ray Jenkins
11/30/2017 08:23:53 pm

I share your line of thinking on this Rubislaw.

One of the stranger things in the Zodiac case is the vague reference to an Australian real estate agent named Frank Wood of Yeppoon in Queensland, which was found in victim Darlene Ferrin's address book.

This really intrigues me.

Yeppoon was a veritable "back water" in 1969 and very little was known about it. But it was possibly on the cusp of experiencing a
small tourist and development boom. It would have been the ideal place where someone might go to get away from it all. It seems like an incredibly obscure reference (one of those things that is so unexpected as to seem completely out of place).

I am sure there is an explanation and have little doubt that somewhere in the police files we may find the answer.

I really have no ideas about it. Was Darlene afraid for her life and trying to evade a stalker by researching ways to flee to Australia to escape a stalker?

Or did she meet Frank Wood in America and they were on friendly enough terms that he gave her his contact details. A "look me up if ever you are over here" kind of scenario?

Or maybe she was related to him?

Rubislaw 32 link
11/30/2017 10:35:44 pm

That is a fascinating piece of information,Ray.

An incite into a person,in the address book,made public.

One senses that Darlene mixed with all sorts of people,from all sorts of walks of life.And had ambition,beyond that of a typical ''hometown'' girl.

Just on a point to be made,this address book is believed to be the one she kept,for both she and husband Dean.

There is believed to be another address book,held by LE,that she kept for her exclusive friends and acquaintances.

So,it is possible that Dean has been questioned about Frank Wood,in the past.

But,he sounds an intriguing person.

Ray Jenkins
12/1/2017 02:43:12 pm

I note a prominent tick beside the entry, which suggests to me he was thoroughly checked out and then ticked off by investigators.

Richard
12/1/2017 12:17:22 am

Like you Rubislaw the Zodiac connection to these early victims is plausible, but not because of the accounts of Pam Huckaby, her sister. It is not unknown that a serial killer or spree killer can murder someone known to them initially and get a taste for murder, and continue on to attack strangers. The three phone calls at 1.30 am on July 5th 1969 have still not been fully explained either. There have been claims of friends, Leo or even reporters making the calls, but with just heavy breathing heard over three calls, it seems a little bizarre. If only we could have discovered the location of the calls.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 04:24:29 am

Yes,I struggle to get too excited about various phone calls,though never dismissing anything,outright.

I believe that there was a pot deal,going down,that night...so everyone of the younger generation,could get high,with the fireworks.At least one of the calls,could have been to do,with this [?].

Also,that Darlene's brother and father,were both called ''Leo''.It can all get a bit complicated [!].

A recent reference to the ''Leo Forecast'' pasting letter,might have been referring to one of the ''Leo's''....or even,''Law Enforcement Organisations''.

I think that I will examine the calls,as a subject,in themselves [!].

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 04:52:35 am

Just as a further comment,Richard,beyond the comments,below.

A couple of years ago,I went into the actual attack,on Darlene and Mike,bullet by bullet [....as I am sure you have done,before...].

It seemed to me that,this attack was different to the rest,in that one sensed real anger,in Zodiac,as opposed to a more calculated and methodical approach,on the others [?].

Also,I believe that I have had more heavy breathing calls,than most people have had hot dinners [!].About 40 [!],recently....since my claim to have solved the ''340''.

''By the by'',anyway....[....chuckle,chuckle...].

Richard
12/1/2017 06:39:48 am

I probably get the heavy sighs after each article. The Blue Rock Springs attack was in some ways different, but what is still fully unexplained is that Zodiac exhibited 'hesitation', if we believe that it was his car that pulled up, left, and then returned 5 minutes later. If he was exhibiting extreme anger, rather than a methodical approach, then why didn't he just exit the car the first time he pulled up and shoot the victims immediately. He was after all aligned on the driver side of the Corvair and the driver holds the means of escape. We also have to explain, that if Darlene Ferrin was the intended target, the logical place to attack would be the driver side. If you believe this was more of an anger based crime, then the likelihood is that you probably don't believe the initial vehicle that pulled up on the left side of their vehicle was the eventual murderer. Although a completely empty parking lot, with a vehicle pulling up alongside and dousing its lights suggests menace.
But then why pull off- checking the adjacent road to make sure it's clear of vehicles and then returning is pointless, because by the time you have returned, exited your vehicle and approached the couple's car, a motorist could now be coming down the road. It's a self-defeating move. If the first vehicle however was Zodiac, then this may suggest hesitation or second thoughts. Another possible option is the occupant of the first vehicle was sent by the eventual murderer to verify the occupants of the Corvair, suggesting both accomplices possibly knew the victims. Also the killer that night we know fired 9 bullets. Assuming his gun didn't jam, why didn't he just fire off all nine bullets in one go, as opposed to the version we have come to believe from Mageau, that the killer only fired 4, walked away, then returned to fire the final 5. Not the actions of a killer filled with rage, if the story of Michael Mageau is a correct recollection. The actions of the vehicle that first pulled up (if the killer) and the two separate volleys of shots into the vehicle flies in the face of an impulsive, rage fuelled attack, particularly in view of the preparation of a torch bearing assailant. Many have suggested the killer may been a policeman, even linking Richard Hoffman into the suspect list, or the killer was imitating a police by parking to the rear and approaching the Corvair with a flashlight. But from what I have seen policemen usually approach the driver side, when unobstructed from both sides. I have done an article on the order of the shots, explaining why so many entry and exit wounds, can be produced by only 9 shots and it suggests that Darlene Ferrin had both her hands on the steering wheel, and I believe the vehicle was in gear, suggesting that she may have reacted quickly in an attempt to pull away, or more likely may have suspected something was unsettling about the approaching man and had placed the vehicle in gear and readied her hands on the steering wheel. In other words she sensed danger.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-ballistics-at-blue-rock-springs

Ray Jenkins
11/30/2017 06:35:01 pm

"The ringing payphone could have drawn attention to him in the early morning hours, and may have been the reason he left the receiver off the hook at 1231 Main Street, Napa, after the Lake Berryessa attack on Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard."

I agree. That is a very astute observation and does suggest a definite connectivity between these two cases.

While reading your very interesting article, two words rang out like alarm bells louder than a steeple bell for me: PYTHIAN CASTLE.

From my own research I am convinced that Zodiac knew them through their Pythian Castle connection. He stalked them and killed them in cold blood.

Ray Jenkins
11/30/2017 06:36:50 pm

Correction: "shot them in cold blood"

Ray Jenkins
11/30/2017 06:47:12 pm

"Friday night at 7.10 pm David drove his sister Debbie to a meeting of the Rainbow Girls at the Pythian Castle on Sonoma Boulevard..."

Just out of interest, I would like to point this out once more, in case anyone has missed it.

The following link shows a photo of the Cross of Colour commonly worn by Order of the Rainbow for Girls.

Fill in the vertical diamond shapes (including the space left for the horizontal letters) with the word PARADICE.

It is an exact match!

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6c/ee/4c/6cee4c0edb5513c91124a0b56be37b61--grand-cross-teen-life.jpg

Richard
12/1/2017 12:05:30 am

Certainly another plausible connection Ray, along with the Ricardo Gomez observations. I have always considered a religious side to various Zodiac correspondences. The Halloween card 'crucifix', along with the 13 Hole postcard red crucifix. His choice of the Celtic Cross. The paradise and slaves references and the 888 symbolism. The number 8 suggesting infinity, rebirth and resurrection. The Christ-mass of the Melvin Belli letter. Many crimes have been committed in the name of religion or divine inspiration, so it remains a possibility.

Ray Jenkins
12/1/2017 01:31:46 am

I guess it is also possible that the Zodiac was simply re-hashing things relevant to his crimes and victims in his writings?

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 06:42:19 am

I think you have hit the nail on the head,with ''...re-hashing things relevant to his crimes and victims in his writings...''

A compulsive writer and doodler....the like of which,the world has rarely seen !

I am observing,with interest,references to symbols and religious connotation.

The ''Christ-mass'' angle,though,I suspect is ''on its own''.That Zodiac,perhaps,on occasions of deflation,dejection and depression,sought solace in experiences from childhood,that made him feel secure,and lifted his soul.....Christmas,and all its fanfare and novelty.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 07:38:52 am

I certainly bow to your referenced details,in the comments on the attack on Mike and Darlene,Richard.

My interpretation is that Zodiac had been ''prowling'' about in his car,''red with rage''.....and then decided to confront and remonstrate with Darlene,regardless of whether she had a companion [Mike],with her.

So,Zodiac pulls in,close to her car......then decides that he is going back home,for ''heavy weapons''.

When he returns,he his still ''annoyed as hell'',but has adopted a more ''deliberate'' approach.

Perhaps ''splitting hairs'' on Zodiac's state of mind change.....''but''....the important implication is that he came back armed this time,and lived a relatively short distance away.

Just on the ''Hoffman business'',Mike said in his interview,in the documentary,''This is the Zodiac Speaking'',that : ''.....he said : 'My name is Richard' ''.If anyone cares to look at that interview again,it is clear that Mike is referring to Hoffman,as the first officer arriving at the crime scene,and tactfully introducing himself to Mike,who is sprawled out,injured on the ground,having extricated himself,from Darlene's car.

Mike Mageau is a little ''all over the place'' in that interview,but I think it is clear,that he was referring to Hoffman.....and not Zodiac.

Yes,it may well have been the case,that Zodiac resided very close to Blue Rock Springs [?].

[...yes,understand about your heavy sighs,Richard....you are carrying the can for all your readers.....thanks [!] ]

Richard
12/1/2017 09:38:19 am

If Mageau estimated approximately 5-10 minutes between the car leaving and returning. The journey time to the intersection of Columbus Parkway and Springs Road is about 1.5 minute (0.7 miles). Allowing approximately 1 minute to exit his vehicle, retrieve the weapon, and get in his vehicle again, would places his possible residence relative to this intersection, a maximum of 30 seconds to 3 minutes from this intersection. That should narrow it down. That is roughly 0.2 to 1.5 miles from the intersection

Ray Jenkins
12/1/2017 02:48:43 pm

Probably not that unusual Rubislaw. Dennis Rader is another compulsive writer and esoteric/eclectic doodler. Manson also, but in his case the doodles were so bizarre that few could understand him.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 05:56:51 pm

Indeed Ray....I feel that we are dealing with the ''prize guy'',though,in Mr.Z.

Particular,in his apparent need to respond,to circumstances.And arguably,on a humour level.

I get so caught up on his ''unconfirmed'',sometimes,that I probably fail to see where the ''join'' actually is.

What I ''see'' so far though,is that there appears to have been a ''sophisticated'' Zodiac....and an ''agricultural'' Zodiac [....equally industrious,but less of a sophisticate....].

But were they the same ''one and only'' Zodiac [?].

The reason why I tend to think so,is mostly to do with Zodiac's core motive.

One can never be sure,but clearly the FBI hold advantages,over us.

I just feel that continually studying,both ''confirmed'' and ''unconfirmed'' correspondence,can yield ''new light''.

But,for how long,I'm not sure.

Ray Jenkins
12/1/2017 06:26:07 pm

I agree, I find myself getting stuck in the duality of Zodiac's personality on many occasions. One minute a redneck hunter who one could consider as the kind of man who might eat fresh road kill, the next minute he is waxing lyrical about stage plays and opera. This has caused many to speculate that there were in fact two Zodiac killers: one based in the country and anther based in the city. Then of course if we think about someone who may have had multiple personality issues or been bipolar, or schizophrenic, or whatever, it is likely that the two personalities were in fact combined into one individual.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 10:15:37 am

Some nice estimated details,given,Richard.

I had wondered about that ''5 minutes'',and whether it might be more.

So,officially,Mike Mageau believes that the time delay,between a possible ''Zodiac return'',could have been,up to ten minutes [?].

Therefore,you are estimating that Zodiac might have lived 1.5 miles from Blue Rock Springs.Say,2 miles ''tops'' [?].

I am close to being sure,that this is what,essentially,happened.....and that Zodiac retrieved a gun or guns from his garage or ''lock up''.

Then returned,with malice intent.

Had Zodiac ''just'' remonstrated with Darlene,the first visit,he would have walked to her side of the car,and ''wagged his finger''.

I believe,on the ''probable'' second visit,it suited him to aim a weapon and fire at Darlene,from about,in effect,five feet.....having disabed Mike first,with a view to finishing him off,at Zodiac's ''leisure''.

I am pretty confident that I know what all the fuss was about.

For another time,perhaps....and allow more readers to make some comments.

Ray Jenkins
12/1/2017 03:03:18 pm

I guess it is difficult to separate malice intent from anger in a case like this. Psycopaths can kill as if in a jealous rage, even though the person they are targeting may have had nothing at all to do with their original source of anger or emotional hurt. However there could be something about a situation that triggers a distant memory and that is enough to set them off. Then, given a quiet road and opportunity...

Still I do tend to get a feeling that this one was "personal", a bit like a vendetta. It has all the hallmarks of a "hit". It is plausible to suggest that the Zodiac had been stalking Darlene, he sees her parked in a car with a young man, he drives off, blood boiling, goes back for a weapon and then returns. Perhaps even the Zodiac was hoping they would drive off in the meantime. But he returns and finds they are still there, suggesting they must indeed be canoodling, he is overcome by rage and we know the rest.

It is interesting how in the movie reconstruction of this crime scene, they show the Zodiac tearing off up the road, then jamming on the brakes and returning straight away. The time delay would only be about 30 seconds. Just shows you can't believe Hollywood! :-)

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 06:15:58 pm

Yes,these are indeed pertinent points.

I just wonder if ''sexual jealousy'' has a lot,some,or very little to do with Zodiac's possible actions [?].

My interpretation is that what hacked Zodiac off,the most,was being marginalised,socially,by Darlene,and not getting an assurances from her,that the ''past was in the past''.

As has been proffered,before,it is possible that Darlene had witnessed ''bad things'',by Zodiac.....and Zodiac wanted to be sure,that it would remain buried in the past.

In essence,he felt that Darlene,was dangling him on a piece of string.

Ray Jenkins
12/1/2017 03:31:37 pm

An alternative theory could be that the Zodiac was not a jilted lover or jealous, secret admirer, he may have been a highly overprotective parent or brother, perhaps even the father or brother of someone who had known Darlene. It is difficult to "type" a personality after so many years especially in the absence of knowing them on a personal level, but I always get the impression that, without reverting to coarse language, Darlene could have been a little bit flirtatious. She comes across as the definitive social butterfly. She was seemingly mature and world-wise, and not "innocent" in her relations with the opposite sex, but also rather rash and inexperienced in her decisions, and at times naive.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 11:33:59 am

I see that there is relative ''nothingness'' down Lake Herman Road,Richard,residential wise.

Therefore,the likelihood,if Zodiac knew Darlene,personally,that he resided,somewhere off Columbus Parkway,heading south.

In effect,halfway between Vallejo and Benicia [?].

Richard
12/1/2017 12:17:36 pm

I think we both agree, he lived local, relatively close to the crime scenes. I look at it this way- if the killer lived 40 miles away, you clear the scene and put a good distance between you and the murder site. If it's 40 miles, then 20 miles is equidistant, creating a decent buffer zone from the crime scene and your house. If you live 10 miles away, the decision is made more difficult, but I believe your primary objective is to put distance from the murder site first and then make the call likely 6-7 miles away. When your residence is extremely close, say 2-6 miles, you are highly unlikely to drive away from your residence 10 or 20 miles, then turn back on yourself, spending more time with the smoking gun and possibly blood spatter on your person, if it's not necessary. The fact the call was made local, when it didn't have to be (had he lived in American Canyon, Napa, San Francisco, Oakland etc), to me indicates he went directly home a short distance from the crime scene and placed the call a short time later.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 01:48:16 pm

I certainly take your logical points and,given a ''given'',therefore an inferred ''conclusion''.

I haven't ''visited'' this aspect to the case,for sometime.So,its all coming back to me,in effect.There are definitely ''plausible'' aspects to Darlene's murder,that suggest that Zodiac did know her quite well.

And,with the idea,that it was a case of a ''second coming'',with what went on at Blue Rock Springs.

Zodiac and Darlene,was perhaps,a tale of a previous relationship,rekindled....but only on the basis of acknowledgement....which actually translated into mistaken subterfuge and mistaken insincerity....and a tragic outcome.

What Zodiac hadn't realised,I believe,was that Darlene was holding back on him,because criminal behaviour of her own,was catching up with her,at the time.

I think that it was a lucky break for Zodiac,since there were that many avenues,for the police to have to investigate,that he was able to simply disappear,''under the radar''.

Until now...possibly.

Sully link
12/1/2017 02:37:29 pm

After watching Episode 3 again, I'm seeing old boy Larry Lowe as a wealth of information! Did Harvey Hines ever talk to Lowe in 1973 when he was up there? I'll bet that he must have huh.

Richard, why hasnt History Channel used ANY of your vast Z knowledge? God knows, You and Alex are walking encyclopedias on ALL things Zodiac!! Guess they did call Alex on HH info...

Richard
12/1/2017 02:49:46 pm

That's kind of you to say so Sully. I'm happy with my lot. The one thing I don't have for sure, is a suspect to promote. I don't buy into any of the widely publicized suspects, because the evidence is simply lacking, and by having one it would prejudice any article I wrote- because it would have to conform to this bias. Cheers, Richard. I guess Harvey Hines talked to everyone. I'll have to check the 120 page report, but I believe he did. I'll have a look tomorrow and let you know Sunday.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 02:43:09 pm

''340'' :

''Nice freak clue around Darlene's case''

Halloween Card :

''Bye,Dee,Bye....Nincompoop''

Ray Jenkins
12/1/2017 05:48:07 pm

Definite freak clue or possible freak clue? :-)

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2017 06:27:48 pm

In the lap of the gods,on Zodiac's interpretation [his gig]...but if the line is correct [...which I believe so,naturally [!]....]....then,I'm guessing that,about 4 months after Darlene's murder,Zodiac is getting a sense,through a combination of local gossip,and some reports perhaps,that Darlene might not have been acting completely on the right side of the law ,at the time of her death [?].

Sully link
12/1/2017 11:46:00 pm

Richard if you werent impartial, this website would be another 'Tom Voids House of Cards' so... THANK YOU!!!

Did I read somewhere that Cane drove Donna up to Lake Tahoe for her initial interview at the Sahara in 1970? Who told us that? And then Larry Lowe let Donna stay at his place for 2 months?

Lowes input could remove all mystique surrounding Lawrence Cane. Lets hope he is 100% forthcoming with Sal & Ken.

Richard
12/2/2017 12:25:32 am

I checked the 120 page Hines report. Cannot find anything extra on Larry Lowe. Donna did stay at the Lowe's at 4054 US Highway 50 and in all likelihood walked from this residence to work the night of her disappearance. Never heard the claim of Kane driving Donna anywhere. Hopefully the docudrama will add some extra information.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/2/2017 12:13:50 pm

It is said,that one should not speak ill of the dead.It is also a given,that no one ''deserves'' to die.

I believe that,whatever Darlene was or was not up to,it should in no way impede a resolution to the solving of the crime perpetrated upon her.

What appears to be likely,was that it was ''unlikely'' that she and her husband,were in a financial position,to be able to afford their new home,and general lifestyle.Despite having three jobs,between them.

It has been claimed in the past that Darlene's parents were offering financial assistance.The reality appears unlikely,and perhaps,comes from a need to defend Darlene,in death.

Where did the money come from,to support Darlene and her husband's lifestyle ? Financial investigation is often,one of the first aspects of ''enquiry'',by police,when a baffling crime has taken place.

From weighing up a combination of knowledge and knowledge of gossip,it appears likely that Darlene was,in essence,being employed as a ''bag lady'',for a crime syndicate,involved largely in car theft.

Darlene's job,in this scenario,would be to keep large sums of cash.And,at certain times,it would be required of her to,both deliver cash,for the purposes of financing ''ventures''.....and to collect cash,derived from successful ''transactions''.

Where,I believe,it seemed to be going wrong for Darlene,is that she was finding herself,ever increasingly,''skimming'' or ''creaming off the top''.In other words,helping herself to that,for which she was paid to protect.

It was all going horribly wrong for her,and she probably faced two choices : either go to the police,and expose the syndicate's scam....or face the wrath of those criminals that employed her.

''Zodiac'',I believe,was totally oblivious to Darlene's problems,and had been misconceiving her ''strange'' behaviour,as a prelude to reporting him,Zodiac,to the police,for ''past misdemeanours''.

Hence,the tragedy that ensued.

Ray Jenkins
12/2/2017 03:00:53 pm

In the absence of proof I take zero notice of "local gossip", even less of the intrigue presented by modern social media. It was after all such gossip and popularized intrigue that has lead to some of the greatest miscarriages of justice in our time, for example the Lindy Chamberlain case in Australia. Trial by media often has a tendency to lead justice astray.

I have heard this yarn before, i.e. that Darlene was involved in drugs. Then follows the inevitable long-winded conspiracy theory that she was involved in something nefarious which also somehow involved the Zodiac, and she got on the wrong side of the Zodiac and "A+B=Z". Probably all complete rubbish and even if she was involved in a few illicit activities on the side, this may have had nothing to do with her death. To presume she was a victim of the Zodiac through some misdeed of her own tends to suggest that all of the Zodiac's victims must have similarly been of poor character. My way f looking at this is the rumour mill is just one way in which local people and the media try to find reasons for something bad happening. If there is no clear reason or motivation (this is frequently the case with serial killings) people will manufacture reasons. This is just people trying to make sense of the unknown. Scenarios over time can become like "factoids" for some.

Many years ago an elderly gentleman arrived at a neighbour's home, took a seat and promptly died before our very eyes. He had been in good health and it was a great shock to many. Then of course the rumour mill started. On the day of his funeral I think I overheard about 5 different versions of how he died, and all were absolutely adamant that they knew the full story. I overheard a woman saying with great certainty that he had been out mowing the lawn and come in feeling sick. His wife called an ambulance and he passed away on the way to the hospital. Not a shred of truth in anything she had said.

We do have some evidence that Darlene may have been a bit flirty and "socially active" (to put it politely) but really there is no proof that she was involved in anything criminal. If anyone does have proof to suggest this, I am willing to stand corrected. But I basically have no interest in what is essentially just gossip and innuendo.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/2/2017 03:27:36 pm

Indeed,indeed Ray.....these are truisms beyond little doubt.

I have placed a ''scenario'',in my previous comment.

That ''scenario'' is not beyond the realms of a possibility.

I see an important aspect to it,as the role of the FBI,having become involved in the Zodiac case,officially,once jurisdiction was awarded to them [ Faraday and Jenson was a ''single'' double murder].

We wonder about what the Riverside Police have been doing ''positively'',in more than fifty years...but,what has the FBI,been doing about Darlene Ferrin's murder,in a similar time span [?].

I would suggest,the possibility....or even probability,that the FBI saw Darlene's murder,as ''just up their street''.

More specifically,that the possible ''car scam'',involved the cities of San Francisco and Chicago.But it could have equally have been two other cities.And their jurisdiction held advantages,in that they were able to effortlessly ''police'' across State borders.

The real inference is,that FBI may well have seen possible criminal connections to Darlene,as the reason why her life was taken.And,following this ''compelling'' lead,they failed to consider carefully,and for long enough,that Darlene's perpetrator,was actually under their noses [?]

Ray Jenkins
12/2/2017 03:42:36 pm

I have to admit, I also wonder what the Riverside Police have been doing (or should that be "not doing"?) with regard to the Cheri Jo Bates case, apart from locking away the evidence and letting time slip by until it is a cold case.

The knowledge that it may be possible for her attacker's DNA to be sampled from her clothing is certainly a step in the right direction, but one wonders why this has taken so long? It is as if they were prepared to sit back and do absolutely nothing. It was only when they were approached by an interested Third Party that this all of a sudden becomes a possibility.

It all makes me shame me head in disbelief... Is it apathy, or a chronic lack of staff and resources in the face of modern crime epidemics? Perhaps the citizens of America should be asking their illustrious President why these things are so?

Ray Jenkins
12/2/2017 03:45:34 pm

Damn this "auto-correct" on my computer! That should read "shake my head in disbelief"

Rubislaw 32 link
12/2/2017 04:23:36 pm

No worries...my mistakes are unforced errors...maybe I could do with some reading glasses.

I note that some posters are getting a little ''edgy'',in the light of this recent History Channel series.Along the lines of it's undermining the seriousness,with which generally,we all take the Zodiac case.

Perhaps,a concern that,collectively,we will be seen in a ''laughable'' light [?].

Spelling errors is the first sign....having noted a few cases of posters spelling ''Carmel'',as ''Carmen''....and even,''Zodiac'' as ''Kodiac'' [!].

A computer named after an opera,in its plight to solve the case of ''The Kodiac Killer''.

What's coming next ?

Ray Jenkins
12/2/2017 04:35:09 pm

Once, without my glasses, and when writing in haste, and obviously dyslexic, I mis-spelled "ZODIAC" as "KOJIAK". Maybe I inadvertently helped to reveal the secret. The Zodiac was none other than Kojak!

Carmen does sound better than Carmel. Carmel sounds a bit like a fusion of Camel and Caramel - two things that seldom go together well. I still think Adam West and his Batcomputer would have had more luck solving the alphabet soup of the Zodiac case than this modern operatic version. At least it could not have fared any worse.

Alex Lewis
12/14/2017 11:29:06 pm

Rich Zodiac would not have to concern Himself with traces to His location of wherw he is when making His bragging phone call. The late 60 was a decade short of a National Emergency Number aka 911 and back in the late 60s, if you required police you'd do so via the operator who you would call to be patched through to your local Police Dpt. or Sheriffs Office.

The operator asked Z what the Tel. No He was dialling from in order for Her to patch Him through to the correct police dpt. and Zodiac gave the operator his callbox telephone number. This is how and why that operator who broke the law by not disconnecting from the call when Party A was connected with Party B stayed on the line listening and heard what the caller said.

Knowing immediately the significance of what the caller said & who the caller likely was, She rang back on thr very number Z had hiven her himself not 2, maybe 3 minutes before.

The police report of His next call recalls not only does yhe caller not hang up, but before that the operator again asks the standard required question of the callers number and/or location. The rwport states that the caller refused to give it to thr operator this time after several attempts by Her asking for it.

Ray Jenkins
12/15/2017 01:45:37 am

I'm confused. Are we talking about the operator at the telephone company or the Vallejo Police Dispatcher Nancy Slover? My understanding is that Nancy Slover was the one who listened in. Maybe I have got it wrong? Over to you Richard.

Richard
12/15/2017 04:22:49 am

He would have to concern himself with his location, not through tracing or him giving the payphone number, but by the fact of the phone ringing and drawing attention to him from possible eyewitnesses.
Quote "If he had spotted a potential eyewitness near the payphone, he may have instinctively changed the message from a double murder to a car accident, thereby avoiding any future ramifications, had he somehow been traced."
Nancy Slover took the call passed to her by the operator I believe.
12.47 Mrs Johnson PT&T called. The above call was traced to a coin-operated payphone. Without the ability to trace a call in 1969, the operator must have taken the number when the caller first rang and patched it through to Nancy Slover. When Zodiac hung up, they called back the number, hence Zodiac's remarks "the damn thing rang." http://www.zodiackiller.com/DFR13.html


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