ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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A RE-EXAMINATION OF THE DEPOSITION SITE OF DONNA LASS IN THE PINES POSTCARD (PROMPTED BY VT SQUIRE ON REDDIT)

5/27/2024

 
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Several months ago I analysed the Pines postcard to see if the punch-hole and pasted "Sierra Club" text were used by the author of the postcard to show the burial or disposal site of Donna Lass, who was last seen at the Sahara Tahoe Hotel & Casino on September 6th 1970. Because the author had pasted the words "around in the snow" upside down, it gave me the idea to rotate the postcard through 180 degrees and measure the distance from the edge of the pasted "Sierra Club" (Clair Tappaan Lodge) and the center of the punch-hole. The remains of Donna Lass were discovered somewhere by Camp Spaulding or Yuba Gap, which were perfectly aligned with Clair Tappaan Lodge on the east-west axis, just like the punch-hole and "Sierra Club" on the postcard. I made the mistake in the earlier article of assuming the postcard was the US standard size of 5.8 X 4.2 inches. The postcard used by the author was a USPS Abraham Lincoln 4 Cent Blank Postcard that measured 5 9/16 by 3 1/4 inches (5.56 by 3.25 inches). 

I really don't mind individuals challenging claims made on this website, but am highly suspicious of people like VT Squire, who has consistently trashed everything I've ever written, with little to no exception. So in response to his Reddit article picking apart my analysis of the Pines postcard (and in the interest of fairness), I have decided to analyse his claims, without bias, that my measurements and conclusions were incorrect in my previous article - from which he correctly pointed out some flaws. His analysis of the postcard width using a crude scale and pixel count from border to border was 5.39 inches (well inside my assessment of 5.80 inches). Therefore, in reality, the distance between the punch-hole center and "Sierra Club" was 2.122 inches according to VT Squire, giving us a distance of 13.58 miles (2.122 multiplied by the map scale of 6.4 miles/inch). My measurement of 15.3 miles west of Clair Tappaan Lodge to the location of the body (or to the center of punch-hole) was nearly 2 miles off according to VT Squire. However, the historical records show that this postcard was 5 9/16 or 5.56 inches wide, not the 5.39 inches calculated by VT Squire. But he was closer than me.        

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The above image was taken from a seller on Ebay who provided a handy scale next to the ​USPS Abraham Lincoln 4 Cent Blank Postcard. I checked numerous other sites regarding this postcard and its exact measurement was 5 9/16 inches in width (5.56 inches). Less than my original estimate by 0.24 inches, but 0.17 inches more than that given by VT Squire. I then took the image used by VT Squire (with small scale) and color tinted the edge to define the exact size of the postcard beyond the pasted advertisement. I then superimposed this image exactly over an original of the blank postcard and placed a ruler from one edge to the other measuring 5 9/16 inches (5.56 inches). This enabled me to measure the distance between the center of the punch-hole to the edge of the "Sierra Club" pasting. It measured 2 3/16 inches (2.19 inches). To get the distance in miles I had to multiply 2.19 by the 6.4 inches/mile map scale (6.4 X 2.19) = 14.02 miles. Therefore, the distance between Clair Tappaan Lodge and Camp Spaulding/Yuba Gap where the remains were found, should be 14.02 miles if the postcard was an accurate representation of her final resting place. The distance of 14.02 miles west of Clair Tappaan Lodge lands slightly south of Chubb Lake, just over a mile shy of Camp Spaulding, and 400 meters shy of Yuba Gap. For all intents and purposes, the distance in miles between the pasted "Sierra Club" and punch-hole of 14.02 miles, is where the remains of Donna Lass were found in 1985/1986. The punch-hole (not the center) does extend to 2 5/16 inches (14.78 miles), which travels beyond Yuba Gap and to the edge of Camp Spaulding, that lies south of Lake Spaulding. 

VT Squire's analysis was pretty accurate and forced me to reassess my original article regarding the deposition site of Donna Lass. But his claims that I attempt to manipulate data to achieve a desired result is false. If I make mistakes I will endeavour to correct them, as shown by this re-examination. Hopefully, he will now do the same in his Reddit post.. 

A RE-EXAMINATION OF THE PINES POSTCARD [PART TWO]
A RE-EXAMINATION OF THE PINES POSTCARD [PART THREE]
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CLICK IMAGE TO ENTER GOOGLE MAPS
Richard
5/27/2024 11:08:11 am

Thanks Rubislaw for reminding me of this Lincoln postcard. VT Squire's 2.12 inch measurement from a 5.39 inch postcard would be 2.19 inches based on a 5.56 inch postcard.

VT_Squire
9/29/2024 05:57:33 pm

Before you call someone else, disingenuous, please be sure that what you contribute is not a photoshopped or msPainted or whatever'd image, when simply adopting the very same "let me look on ebay" strategy reveals other card which are under 5 and a half inches.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rJsAAOSwLc1lmL6Y/s-l960.webp

Cheers

VT_Squire
9/29/2024 08:48:53 pm

Ooof, it pains me to read my own writing if I haven't properly proofread myself.

But, this is precisely what I mean about you calling other people disingenuous. You wrote "the center of the punch-hole to the edge of the "Sierra Club" pasting. It measured 2 3/16 inches (2.19 inches)."


It's 2 and 3/32nds. https://imgur.com/a/5UKW4wq

Why do I know the scale in the image should be overlapped? Because If I place them next to each other, then the number it spits back will be even LESS.

What I said from before was that the measurement was approximately 2.112 inches. Turns out that I was actually being generous.

So the final number would be 2.09375 x 6.4 = 13.4 miles.

But just wait till you find out how screwy the scale given on the map is. 1 inch is actually about 6.6 or 6.7 miles. Cheers.

Richard
10/1/2024 12:14:30 pm

It's odd really because the measurements you give of 2.09 (13.4 miles) lands even closer to her remains than the measurement I gave. But both our measurements fall inside the punchhole, proving the concept of the postcard works. Unfortunately you spent too long on Voigt's site and carry this agenda of smearing, just like you claimed when you said I was distorting the Little List crosshairs to make the black circle land where I wanted it. You do realize Druzer's solution to the Z32 that I embrace has "ESTIMATE" in it.

Richard
10/1/2024 12:31:51 pm

And by the way, you began the attacks on me long before you moved to Reddit. You are welcome to challenge my articles and conclusions and disagree with 100% of them if you like, but when you challenge my honesty, you have to explain why I'm being dishonest. I have never made one cent running this website, I don't have a suspect and I don't care how old the Zodiac is or where he lived. What is there to gain by attempting to manufacture something false from my perspective? I always attempt to be accurate in my analyses and I accept that I was slightly off in the original article. But I guess, like Voigt, you never make mistakes.

VT_Squire
10/2/2024 01:29:39 pm

Richard, I suspect you've lost the plot. Her remains were only found in ONE place so far.

Here's what you said about that back then: "So I went on the google maps and I looked at the distance between Clair-Tappan Lodge Sierra Club and where her body was found near Camp Spaulding and it measured exactly 15.3 miles.""

15.3 miles, that's the REAL-WORLD distance ACCORDING TO YOURSELF.

Now, you say: "For all intents and purposes, the distance in miles between the pasted "Sierra Club" and punch-hole of 14.02 miles, is where the remains of Donna Lass were found in 1985/1986"

Her body was found 15.3 miles away exactly, right? So the card was off the mark by about 1.3 miles. That's the stone cold fact of it according to yourself. What is that, 9 or 10 percent? I even consider that fair, because the card is a dinky little thing and some people just can't measure in small increments very well.

I measured out the card, I used the most generous and reliable method possible. I still got 13.4 miles using your own methods, just with better pictures and the ability to replicate my finding. What I got is even further off the mark of where you say her remains were found, right?

So when you say "the measurements you give of 2.09 (13.4 miles) lands even closer to her remains than the measurement I gave." That's actually 100% false. Her remains would be 1.9 miles away and in no way, shape, or form, is 1.9 miles LESS than 1.3 miles, Richard.

Richard
10/3/2024 02:50:31 am

I measured out the card, I used the most generous and reliable method possible. I still got 13.4 miles using your own methods, just with better pictures and the ability to replicate my finding. What I got is even further off the mark of where you say her remains were found, right? WRONG

Read this and view this image. Your 13.4 miles is only 0.22 miles from the estimated position of the jawbone. Be satisfied that both of our measurements land inside the punchhole.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/a-1000-meters-of-fact-or-fiction

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/172130442870283309hole_orig.gif

VT_Squire
10/3/2024 12:53:55 pm

*sigh*

Richard, there are more problems in what I just read than I want to count, and I don't wish to be a mean person. So I'll simply give you 3 solid things to think about. My hope here is not to influence WHAT you think, but HOW to think.

For instance:

Why are you estimating anything? You said you MEASURED the distance where her remains were found.

The hole punch is a standard 1/4." That means 1.6 miles side to side. I appreciate that you took the long road to get there. You may even be right because the hole punch device may have been manufactured a couple thou smaller than 1/4". Manufacturing has ranges of tolerance and such. The image shows the hole is slightly ovalled, slightly bigger this way, slightly shorter that way. But does anyone really suppose that professor Zodiac was busting out his trusty dusty measuring calipers to ensure that he held his hole-punch at the appropriate perpendicular angle which ensures the precise range you're discussing? Of course not. So as long as you wish to discuss intent and range... that's 1.6 miles.

You said that your error was approximately 2 degrees. "In other words, there was an error of 997 meters over 14.02 miles." This is not quite right. 997 meters > 3270 feet. One degree of error per mile is 92.2 feet. 3270 / 14.02 = an error of 233.23 ft/mile. 233.23/92.2 = just a hair below 2.53 degrees. You rounded your number, but you specifically did NOT round to the nearest whole number.

VT_Squire
10/3/2024 01:12:34 pm

To be clear, I do want to say that being willing to question yourself and re-assess is always a good thing. It's just that you leave a LOT of incredibly misleading or false information in your wake instead of doing that. I encourage you to put more effort into falsifying your own ideas before throwing them out there in the wild because they come across as a grift, which is not exactly helped by your association with Mike Morford, who's been outright caught fabricating "evidence" against his given suspect of choice in the past.

Richard
10/3/2024 04:51:59 pm

I do not mind scrutiny from people, but I do recognise when I receive 99.99% negativity regardless what I write or produce. I have read the last 100 pieces of diatribe from Voigt and every one of the 100 are always insults and smears from an individual who has offered virtually nothing for a decade. This is what I call an agenda. I can see that you are now receiving the same treatment from this child ever since you left the forum. So I guess you should recognise this trait. As I've said before, I have spent 12 years on this website and never made a penny. A grifter is somebody who usually swindles people out of money, which I have never done. Every article I write is done in good faith, and if I produce something incorrect it is done by mistake. I am guessing you have never made any, otherwise you would recognise this. Anyway, let's draw a line in the sand and attempt a more friendly approach.

Richard
5/27/2024 01:13:08 pm

Couldn't help wondering why the author of the postcard (Zodiac) used a value of 4 cents precanceled postal card featuring Abraham Lincoln, a murdered president.

Abraham H. Lass, who died in 2001 at the age of 93, was an educator and writer whose books, articles and 40 years as an unorthodox teacher and outspoken principal made him one of the New York City school system's best-known personalities. He served 16 years as the principal of Abraham Lincoln High School in Brighton Beach, and wrote articles for The New York Post, The New York Herald Tribune, The New York Times and elsewhere.

Do not take this too seriously mind.

Richard
5/27/2024 01:43:17 pm

QUESTION 1: WAS THE CARD CREATED BY ZODIAC, AND THE PUNCH-HOLE AND SIERRA CLUB WAS A CLUE TO HER DEPOSITION SITE?

QUESTION 2: WAS THE CARD CREATED BY SOMEBODY OTHER THAN ZODIAC, AND THE PUNCH-HOLE AND SIERRA CLUB WAS A CLUE TO HER DEPOSITION SITE?

QUESTION 3: WAS THE CARD CREATED BY ZODIAC, AND THE PUNCH-HOLE AND SIERRA CLUB WAS NOT A CLUE TO HER DEPOSITION SITE?

QUESTION 4: WAS THE CARD CREATED BY SOMEBODY OTHER THAN ZODIAC, AND THE PUNCH-HOLE AND SIERRA CLUB WAS NOT A CLUE TO HER DEPOSITION SITE?

Rubislaw32 link
5/27/2024 02:21:53 pm

Hi Richard. Focussing on your Question 1, I would simply ''propose'' that the Zodiac was up to his duplicity as was his predilection - and that the picture painted was of him viewing nearby Weimar where Judith Hakari's body was found. Where from ? The Sierra Sun Cloud Inn, on high ground at nearby Colfax. The Inn has traditionally been noted for its views of sunsets through pine trees.

With regard to the Abraham Lincoln precanceled postal card, I believe the Zodiac ''merely'' pilfered it from his own stamp collection. Something he regretted later, when he realized the Pines card had not been highlighted in public. Then, suddenly emerging in March 1971, and used to demonstrate that he was probably responsible for the disappearance of another nurse, called Donna Lass.

Imagine the Zodiac's surprise ?

Richard
5/27/2024 03:04:18 pm

I suppose I should have added a QUESTION 5 for you Rubislaw about the card not being about Donna Lass. Sorry, showing my bias. My conclusions on the postcard about measurements and "deposition site locations" I suspect are not supported by you on account of your belief about a Judith Hakari connection. However, I do think that the San Francisco Chronicle article from September 1970 mentioning Judith Hakari certainly didn't evade his attention. The fascination with burial sites from Hakari, Lass and Lynda Kanes in the run up to the Los Angeles letter and Pines card could very well have influenced the design of this card. Not to mention July 13th 1971. I think we've both mentioned before that the Zodiac Killer bought job lots of stamps (or from a collection), so it doesn't surprise me that he resurrected this Lincoln stamp. May have another delve into Judith Hakari, but I strongly suspect Richard John Davis murdered her.

Rubislaw32 link
5/27/2024 03:34:05 pm

Certainly possible that Richard John Davis might be responsible for Judith Hakari. Although I am inclined to believe the three yet-identified men, questioned by the local landowner neat an old mineshaft off Ponderosa Way, Weimar, March 13th 1970 - are complicit in both Judith's murder, and makeshift burial.

Exactly one year later, March 13th 1971, the Zodiac sends his Los Angles Times letter, claiming '' a hell of a lot more down here''. Naturally (?) - it was letters of extortion he was referring to, than bodies. But - that's when I believe FBI counterintelligence swung into action with their ''cunning plan'' - of offloading the Pines card back in the Zodiac's face - with the claim the Pines card was then received, March 22nd 1971.

I believe the original intention with the Pines card, was for the Zodiac to finger-point then-Zodiac suspect William Grant as responsible for Judith Hakari. Grant had a luxury chalet at Weimar, which he used as his weekend retreat.

But, neither the Zodiac nor Grant were responsible for Judith..The Zodiac was just horsing around in May 1970, advantaging himself of the Weimar coincidence.

Richard
5/27/2024 03:53:19 pm

I don't disagree that the 3 men spotted by that landowner at Ponderosa Way were almost certainly burying Judith Hakari. But Richard John Davis could have been one of them. He had a lying flatmate, who gave him an alibi when he murdered Nancy Bennallack. So all he needed was one more unscrupulous friend to make up the three spotted by the landowner. Clearly, Richard John Davis was a nasty piece of work, who was likely to attract equally nasty friends. Irrespective of whether he murdered Hakari or not, three people still likely colluded to bury one innocent woman. This shows how scum mixes with scum. So why not Davis?

Rubislaw32 link
5/27/2024 04:01:43 pm

Most certainly - that Davis might be one of Judith's perpetrators.

I find it ''reassuring'' that Placer County are high-profile in recent Donna Lass events. I would think they are really homing in on Judith's case now - just as South Lake Tahoe are, with Donna Lass.

Richard
5/27/2024 04:04:52 pm

I hope so Rubislaw. Fingers crossed.

Rubislaw32 link
5/28/2024 04:27:21 pm

Without meaning to travel too far off topic, Richard, it is indeed interesting what you have mentioned about the flatmate of Davis - now known to have given a false alibi for Nancy, in October 1970.

So - who might have been the third man ? A ''given'' it wasn't the Zodiac. The last time your site touched on the subject of Judith Hakari, I ventured a name - who realistically must still be the No.1 suspect. At that juncture, this suspect's son posted here, to defend his father's ''honour'', since deceased.

Well, fair enough - but I wasn't venturing anything that some journalists haven't ventured, in the years gone by.

You probably know who I am referring to ?

Richard
5/29/2024 01:17:30 am

Was it the person mentioned on Solve Crimes with Rick & Gavin?

Rubislaw32 link
5/29/2024 03:33:06 am

I didn't hear or see ''Solve Crimes''.

Shall we say, someone quite youthful looking. Complicity may have been just in the planning of Judith's kidnapping.

I think the best article in recent years is ''The Bride-to-Be Murder'' - refer ; ''Pretty Death Seller'' site.

As I have intimated, I would suggest SF Chronicle's Jan 2024 Hakari article, in the wake of a December ''reawakening'' on Donna Lass - indicates a conscience of remorse historically stirred, over true dealings between the SF Chronicle (Avery ?) and the FBI.

Richard
5/29/2024 03:49:42 am

I don't agree on this one, but I suspect you mean Judith Hakari's boyfriend. I do agree, however, that the ''The Bride-to-Be Murder' article stands out as the best. The Solve Crimes series on YouTube was excellent but unfortunately all the videos and channel has gone.

Rubislaw32 link
5/29/2024 04:18:38 am

That's interesting.

Yes - ''Pyjama Man'', at 2 in the morning, when police and her in-laws-to-be turn up, after finally letting others know about ''discrepancies''.

Hmm.

Rubislaw32 link
5/29/2024 04:22:10 am

Correction ? : ''His'' in-laws-to-be ?

Travis M link
3/21/2025 08:11:53 pm

Regarding the location where Donna was found—I recently obtained a copy of her death certificate from the Placer County Clerk-Recorder. It states that she was discovered near State Highway 20, 3.5 miles north of I-80, somewhere in the vicinity of the Drum Canal crossing. I assume this refers to the section of the Drum Canal that intersects with State Route 20:

https://maps.app.goo.gl/foVaSeu7i8n7brCW8

Oddly, there appears to be a discrepancy in the reported date of her discovery. Her death record lists it as July 31, 1986, while her DoeNetwork profile states it was August 05.


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