ZODIAC'S LOST HIS BOTTLE

10/29/2019

Unearthed by Michael Morford in 2013, here is an unusual addition to the Zodiac Killer communications featured in the Modesto Bee newspaper on May 11th 1973. A bottle was discovered floating in the Delta by Paradise Point near Stockton, California, containing a purported message from the Zodiac Killer. It stated "The war is over, thank God. Please help me. Am still the Zodiac and going to kill a baby. P.S. Help! Save the world". It was self dated February 2nd.

Paradise Point is 44 miles from the Carquinez Bridge (and Interstate 80) which runs from Vallejo to Crockett, and about 10 miles from Lodi, California. The San Joaquin River flows west from the high elevations of the Sierra Nevada Range to the valley floor and then heads north to Vernalis where it flows into the Delta. The area where the bottle was discovered is punctuated by the White Slough Wildlife Area - 880 acres of man-made ditches, canals, freshwater marshes and grassland. It is highly improbable a bottle dropped into the water by Vallejo would find itself here three months later, and every chance the bottle was thrown or placed into the water in the vicinity of where it was found, or east of this location.

Click image to enter Google Maps

On January 15th 1973, the United States, North and South Vietnam and the Vietcong signed a peace agreement and so ended direct U.S. military involvement in the Vietnam war. Therefore, we know that the message in the bottle declaring "the war is over", was very likely dated February 2nd 1973 and placed into the water around this date. It must have sat in the water for just over three months before being discovered if this was the case. Of course, it could have been backdated and placed in the water more recently - but there seems little to be gained by such subterfuge.

The author of this note can easily mimic previous Zodiac communications, so very little can be done to prove its authenticity or otherwise. The phraseology of "please help me" is identical to the wording on the Melvin Belli Letter mailed on December 20th 1969, and similar to the "I just need help" on the December 7th 1969 Fairfield Letter. To give some form of timeline to this communication - it was likely placed into the water six months prior to the Albany Times Union Letter mailed on August 1st 1973, stating "You were wrong, I am not dead. I am alive and well and I'm going to start killing again".

There would be a devastating number of murders in Lodi, California that year (10 miles from Paradise Point) when on November 9th 1973 Willie L. Steelman (28) and Douglas E. Gretzler (22) were arrested for the massacre of nine people in a family home. Walter Parkin, his wife and two children, along with five friends had been bound and shot in the head. Stories of the Forgotten.

Desert Sun: November 9th 1973. Click image for full article.

Thanks to Michael Morford and Zodiac Killer Site forum.

10/29/2019 06:52:48 pm

I certainly can see Zodiac doing something like this, although the uncertainty of someone actually finding the message might make it a less desirable use of his time. I also can see someone doing it for a sick prank. Intriguing that it was located at "Paradise" point, along with the phrasing of the message.

10/29/2019 07:04:00 pm

I hope you don't mind me going off topic again, but since Halloween is upon us, and I've come across something unusual, I would like to share it with a post. This has to do with the Halloween card. I don't know where I read the original idea, whether on this site or someone else's, but comments were made regarding the formation of the skeleton's hand, whether the "ok" sign could have stood for either number "26" or "30." There were ideas about "14" and "26," which may have been good ideas. I had one of my own, and while I didn't find what I was looking for, I did find something else highly unusual. While it may be a wild coincidence, I certainly don't know what the odds would be on finding something like this. In order to make this easier to read, I'm going to break it up into a few different comment postings. I hope you will not be mad at me for doing so.

SULLY link

10/31/2019 12:11:52 am

JD - Take a look if you can on YouTube - zsolved14 - He only has 3 videos but his breakdown of Zs Halloween postcard is the best I've ever seen 🎃 🎃 🎃

Roger

10/31/2019 06:10:45 pm

I found the videos interesting too and although some of the ideas seem convincing at first glance, it is not hard to find many flaws in the methodology, especially in the solution he proposes to the MyNameIs cryptogram. Not many people with professional training in forensics and reasoning are going to buy this solution, except perhaps those who are already sold on the idea that LK was the Zodiac. But sadly their grasp will be a tenuous one. And there lies the problem.

I am always wary of any presenter who shows a suspect's name and his personal details first and then proceeds to show us a clever way he has found to make the name and numbers fit the cryptogram. I think I have seen some very convincing a priori solutions to this cryptogram for just about every suspect to date. Of course if I were to post on YouTube all of the thousands of alternative solutions that reveal names that are not currently on the suspect list, very few people would be interested.

The Zodiac was so eclectic that the name of just about anybody alive in the world at that time, together with a part of their address, or their phone number, or their criminal record number, their social security number, their car registration, or birth date etc. etc. could be fitted to the Zodiac puzzle.

Before posting anything as a "solution" we should first ask ourselves "Does it pass the basic tests of logical reasoning?" Unfortunately when it comes to the all too numerous Zodiac solutions on offer, the vast majority fail. Here is a good starting point: https://kreativcopywriting.com/10-logical-fallacies-know-spot/

Richard

11/1/2019 02:34:58 am

Having examined the Halloween Card myself, it is so easy to create these "astounding" solutions. The sheer fact that hundreds of solutions to the Halloween Card exist, shows the card's ability to be manipulated. He gets 3241 from the hand only because he already has the identification number and knows in advance what he's looking for. It's a classic case of having the answer first and working towards it. The same with pet suspects. The problem begins because he deliberately chooses to read the 14 on the hand backwards. It could easily read 3214 or 3014 or 1423 etc. We could add it up, multiply it etc. You can literally make the Halloween Card sing the national anthem. In his 408 cipher "solution" he just ignores the number 7 because it's not convenient. If the author of the 408 was really creating the number 3241, why doesn't he just do that instead of creating 32417. And how would a clue such as this ever be unearthed by investigators. If I trawled through countless other documents, no doubt I would find this exact number. Despite what he says, he is making things up, because he is throwing around numbers and making them fit. This form of number play is extremely easy to do, especially with so many variables on offer in these communications. However, I have learned that trying to convey to people the massive flexibility of interpretation that can be achieved with numbers, is usually met with the indignant "how can you not see that I am correct, are you a fool". The reality is, the number manipulation exhibited in these videos is not difficult to achieve given a little patience. The videos are interesting and require a degree of intellect, but unfortunately anybody who says they have solved the Halloween Card by throwing numbers around is leading you on a wild goose chase. The answer to anything usually requires no manipulation whatsoever.

Roger

10/29/2019 07:13:04 pm

Crazy stuff! I wonder what the handwriting on the note looked like?

Richard

10/30/2019 02:46:32 am

That is the million dollar question Roger. I doubt they even still have it.

10/29/2019 07:14:59 pm

What if the Zodiac was alluding to someone specific by using the clues in the Halloween card, be it a neighbor he didn't really know, or a friend he was close to? This would certainly be in line with his brand of word play and humor, perhaps a Trick-or-Treat on a certain family in Vallejo. Maybe, it was even a false clue as suggested in recent comments.

The "14" on the skeleton's hand is prominent. I wondered if it might refer to an address. My primary choices were 1426 and 1430, secondary choices 2614 and 3014. Since Richard thought Vallejo stands a good chance of being Zodiac's home base, possibly close to the payphone at Tuolumne and Springs, I hoped to find something fitting the bill. I had a specific name in mind, but did not find what I was looking for. However, I was stunned when I came across another name. Again, it could just be a coincidence, but if so, it is an odd one. This person lived 0.5 mi driving distance from the payphone. Not sure if "walking/shortcut" distance would make it less so. More coming...

10/29/2019 07:31:17 pm

Reciting past observations re: Zodiac:

1) Possibly a resident of Vallejo
2) Possibly travels for his job
3) Possibly in the military (past or present)
4) Possible connection or interest in aviation
5) Most likely can't resist providing his name, directly or indirectly
6) Uses imagery and wordplay
7) Enjoys misspelling words

We have a card with a skeleton telling us: "I feel it in my bones, you ache to know my name, and so I'll clue you in..."

Q: What do you get with a skeleton wearing a mask?
A" A skeleton in disguise.

Richmond H Skelton lived at 1426 Rice St, Vallejo, 0.5 mi from the payphone. He was in his 60s in 1969. He was a Lieutenant in the United States Navy, an Aviation Structural Mechanic (Aviation metalsmith), and an ROA speaker in the San Francisco North Bay chapter of Retired Officers Association.

His son, Richmond H Skelton Jr. was born in 1931, making him approximately 38 in 1969. He lived at 611 Virgina St, 1.2 mi driving time from the payphone. He served in the US Marine Corps in Korea, and was a plant operator and refinery worker who traveled, at least in 1963, from Vallejo south to a plant in Richmond, CA. According to his obit in 2010 he enjoyed reading, history, sky diving, traveling (went to Egypt) etc.

I wonder if Zodiac shared a neighborhood residence with Richmond Sr., or worked with Richmond Jr., or was a family friend. Of course, I may just be seeing objects in the clouds, but it is an odd coincidence just the same.

Happy Halloween

Richard

10/30/2019 02:42:05 am

Approaching the Halloween Card from this angle would certainly be a good "trick or treat" JD, and another interesting take regarding location. Zodiac, always safe in the mind that something like this could never incriminate him in a court of law, yet sitting in the card for someone to unearth. I know only too well about "objects in the clouds" and the Halloween Card, so here is another one especially for Halloween. Zodiac, when he murdered somebody, added them to his victim count. On July 26th 1970 Zodiac was claiming 13 victims (if we take only the consensus view of confirmed communications, and viewing the 13 Hole Postcard as a repeat because his Little List Letter had yet to be published), then we have the October 27th Halloween Card claiming 14 victims. The only victim beteween these dates (that he claimed} was Donna Ann Lass.

Take the symbol, just split it up and spin it round. We have L, four dots and F. Look Four Fourteen (ie: Look for victim 14). Why do we have to look for victim 14 (because Donna Ann Lass hasn't been found). Then look at the eyes. Zodiac added 8 eyes to the tree (one in knothole already on card), he added four big eyes outside the tree and wrote 4-TEEN above the skeleton's head. The 8 eyes denoting LOOK, the 4 eyes denoting FOR, and the 14-TEEN denoting FOURTEEN. Again we have "Look For Fourteen".

But what other reason did Zodiac arrange the eyes in the 8 and 4 formation (he could have added 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 9 eyes to the tree, but settled on 8). DONNA ANN = 8, and LASS = 4 (outside tree). "Look For Donna Ann Lass" = "Look for Fourteen" = "Donna Ann Lass 14". Two names unearthed in the Halloween Card JD. We can share the clouds now.

The Halloween Card is so flexible it actually works against us, because if we ever had found the correct "solution", proving it above the numerous ideas already suggested is nigh on impossible. We both have now presented our Halloween treat, so any more are welcome. But the "you ache to know my name" (as you stated) should lead us to a name in the solution and Skelton is certainly in keeping with Halloween JD.

10/30/2019 09:22:43 am

Lodi-ac Zodi-ac
The Z resembles a cursive letter L
Lass could be his Last
The Zodiac may have wanted to make-up for pattern of couples
since Paul Stine's did not come a female victim.

10/30/2019 05:48:12 pm

In both cards and letters sent;
the Zodiac was fixated on eyes and the number of eyes.
Don Harden had surgery on his eye.
The Harden's also used the "i" to break their 408.
The Zodiac splattered eyes and i's with hidden meanings throughout.
Sometimes not dotting the i and sometimes even double dotting to make the i look like eyes. Sometimes a real small "o" is used instead of a dot.

YouTube
Zodiac Killer Identified: Zodiac Killer Harden Dotted i's

also here is seen a strange curiosity
Zodiac Killer Identified: Zodiac Killer Salinas Ca article signed Zoe D. Ack

Roger

10/30/2019 06:23:57 pm

Hi BB,

I have often wondered about the potential for embarrassment among law enforcement if ever a DNA test should link Donald Harden to the crimes. One would assume that Donald Harden was asked to submit a DNA test at some stage in the past, as is customary to rule out those who had any involvement in the case. We can also presume that his fingerprints were taken shortly after he solved the 408 cipher. Anybody who interacts closely with an investigation are routinely fingerprinted.

Even so, Bettye Harden did write a lot of strangely Zodiac-like things. Her use of grammar is often eerily similar to that found in the Zodiac communications. The Zoe. D. Ack letter from the newspaper is certainly written in a similar grammatical style, and here we see the use of the word "meemies", which is strikingly similar to the Zodiac's word "meanies".

If she was the author of the Ack letter, just what was she trying to say exactly, or was she merely trying to ride the Zodiac's wave of media notoriety?

Bettye also allegedly wrote those strange and sinister handwritten entries in the copy of Graysmith's book in Salinas Library, stamped Jun 20 1986.

The first hand-written page reads:
"This is my story. I started the Zodiac case, and ended it.
The last half of this book is theory. When I write the true ending it will shake the earth! Betty Harden"

The second hand-written page reads:
"The author use to drive around Salinas to pick our brains --
all we told him was already public news that made headlines 5 inches long. Our code-solving. Bettye"

This is also interesting in light of what Richard proposed as the solution to the "#" number left out of the Zodiac's Mt Diablo communication. As Richard stated: "The reason for 5 inches is self explanatory, because 4 or 6 inches from Mount Diablo to San Francisco would fall into the sea on the east and west side."

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/category/radians

Cheers,
Roger

10/31/2019 09:10:36 am

Roger - Good points
If you are positive that Bettye Harden's DNA clears her of licking the stamps and envelopes then the Hardens should be publicly cleared.
As this suspicion is not going away because of an assumption. Peace

11/1/2019 03:43:30 pm

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtKwXObtB5q-X3xny8faHFA

Zodiac Killer Identified

YouTube

Zodiac Killer Identified: Zodiac Killer Harden I think the Naysayers are DOOMED!

DOOMED I TELL YOU, DOOMED!
The Hunters Point social uprising (also known as the Hunters Point Riot or Rebellion) broke out in the Hunters Point neighborhood of San Francisco on the night of September 27, 1966, after San Francisco Police Department (SFPD) officer Alvin Johnson shot and killed Matthew Johnson, a teenager who was fleeing the scene of a stolen car. The National Guard and California Highway Patrol (CHP) were deployed late that night by Governor Pat Brown, and martial law was imposed until October 1.
" But there is more glory in killing a cop than a cid because a cop can shoot back."

The Widow's Son
5 months ago
The thing that baffles me the most is just how busy Don was.

School teacher
Cryptographer
President and minister of the Universalist Church
Serial killer
International Man Of Mystery

I agree Don was very busy. And we must let the
clues lead us. Also, we must keep an open mind.
I wonder who were some of the members
of the Unitarian Universalist Church?
And could anybody remember the Harden's?

The beliefs of individual Unitarian Universalists range widely, including atheism, agnosticism, pantheism, panentheism, deism, Humanism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Taoism, Omnism, Bahá’i, and neopaganism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And relying on the sepulchral traditions of the Hospitallers. Is a line
from Wikipedia talking about all the different symbols they use. Some of which look like the Zodiac's.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/30/2019 10:04:33 am

The war is over,thank God.
Please help me.
Am still the Zodiac and going to kill a baby.
P.S.Help ! Save the World.

The date on the message was Feb 2nd.
The bottle recovered,May 11th 1973.

The fall of Saigon,was April 30th 1975...so unlikely to have referred to the Vietnam War.

More likely,the Zodiac sensing inside,that hostilities were over with the authorities...but concerned himself,that destructive urges were still inside of him.....as might have already been hinted at,in December 1969 letters (...please help me....I just need help...).

Contributions to content of the bottle's message - possible candidates :

''Save the World''...lyrics from ''Save the Children'',from the iconic album,''What's going on ? '',by Marvin Gaye ( May 1971 ).

''Happy Xmas ( war is over )''...title of John Lennon song,first released,December 1st 1971.

Further lyrics,possibly from the earlier Beatles song,'' Help ! '',including ''....please,please,please help me...''.

So..one could venture that the Zodiac employed two ''extremities'',in thanking God,and intentions to kill a baby.These may have been ''attention seeking'' ploys ( ? ).

And,the rest is well known lyrics,at that time.

Shawn

10/30/2019 04:46:16 pm

Zodiac was like a folk anti hero back then. I guess we only see the tip of the iceberg of all the Zodiac attributed communications real and hoaxes.

I imagine there were hundreds, if not thousands of letters claiming to be Zodiac sent to the police. Maybe what we see from the FBI files are the more credible letters that could be Zodiac. Who knows?

Rubislaw 32 link

10/30/2019 10:12:54 pm

I think it is becoming more and more apparent that the Zodiac was,indeed,a very prolific extortionist.At least a ''compulsive hoaxer'' who,so often jumped on historical occasions,to perpetuate this compulsion.

He may well,turn out to be the hoaxer from the '' North Hollywood '' area....who ''probably'' was responsible for taking advantage of the assassination of Robert Kennedy,the attempted assassination of George Wallace,and the kidnapping of Patty Hearst....to name,just three.

At these points in history,all eyes are set in a particular direction,and hoaxers fall largely under the public's radar,since they are either considered ''not in the public's interest ''....or,as in the case of Patty Hearst,do not receive enough investigating priority...owing to ''stretched'' law enforcement resources,at that time.

A few opportunities,retrospectively,missed,to catch the Zodiac,over the years ? I tend to think so.

Interesting,with this message in a bottle.Clearly,we aren't going to find out the truth of it,unless the Zodiac is apprehended.

But,it could have been him.Either,at a time of genuine depression....or,yet another compulsion,with the possibility,as Shawn alludes to,of keeping his ''output'' industrious.That way,it would always increase the chances of something coming back,that represented a mention,in the newspapers.

If genuine depression,then as Richard has mentoned,in relation to the Belli letter...a cry for help,of a sort ( ?).

With the Belli letter,there probably ''was'' somthing inside of him,that he could not really articulate.But,I think that there was also the fear,that law enforcement had actually caught up with him,and an arrest was imminent.Perhaps,the Zodiac was concerned that,like Lee Oswald,he might end up lynched in custody,out of political convenience ( ? ).

The ''War is over'' ?

Well,just about the best known song,of the last two years,had been :

'' Happy Xmas ( war is over ) ''

What more fitting way,for the Zodiac,with which to open a message ( ? ) .

Roger

10/31/2019 05:25:50 pm

Hi RS, Yes,it does seem likely the words "war is over" were borrowed from Lennon and Ono's peace slogan. Just to add some historical context: The song "Happy Xmas (War Is Over)" was the culmination of more than two years of peace activism undertaken by John Lennon and Yoko Ono that began with the bed-ins they convened in March and May 1969, the first of which took place during their honeymoon.

Lennon and Ono's poster "War is Over!" was officially released on 15 December, 1969. The lettering on the poster comprised the words "WAR IS OVER!" in very large capitalized letters, and the words "IF YOU WANT IT" in smaller capitalized letters beneath, underpinned by the words "Happy Christmas from John & Yoko" in Title case.

To promote the campaign, John Lennon and Yoko Ono posed on the steps of the Apple building in London on 1st December, 1969, holding one of the posters that they distributed to the world's major cities as part of a peace campaign protesting against the Vietnam War. 'War Is Over!, If You Want It'.

The song of same name was recorded 28 and 31 October 1971, Record Plant East, New York City. Apple Records released "Happy Xmas (War Is Over)" and "Listen, the Snow Is Falling" in America on 1 December 1971.

A dispute over publishing rights delayed the release of "Happy Xmas (War Is Over)" in the UK until 24 November 1972.

The song's first album appearance was on Shaved Fish, released on 20 October 1975 when "Happy Xmas" was coupled with part of a live version of "Give Peace a Chance", performed in concert on 30 August 1972.

I guess the only five cents I can add to this is perhaps the qualifying "If you want it?" was what the author of the note was alluding to? War is over but only if you (meaning "the authorities") want it. Of course the author then rambles on about killing a baby and asking for help. This is very like the MO of the Zodiac, asking for help while attempting to lay blame on the same people at the same time.

Also the very fact that the author of the "message in the bottle" chose to set his own dire message to the world adrift by (literally and metaphorically) "committing it to the deep" and thus leaving it entirely to the hands of fate, is rather reminiscent of the line from The Mikado: "Then he plunged himself into the billowy wave. And an echo arose from the suicide's grave "Oh, willow, titwillow, titwillow". It is very much a cry for help from someone who is all alone and desperate and drowning.

It is indeed difficult to understand how this message could not be taken as the work of the Zodiac himself, or someone who was so familiar with his writing style that he, or she, or them, were mimicking his use of language for reasons known only to the author(s).

Rubislaw 32 link

10/31/2019 07:57:00 pm

Thanks for all the extra information,Roger.

I didn't realize that the ''War is over'' poster pre-dated the '' Happy Xmas ( war is over ) '' John Lennon single,by two years.So,the message was out there,already,so to speak ( ? ).

Interesting that you should mention '' If you want it ''.The band ''Badfinger'' were signed to the Beatles record label,and Paul McCartney wrote and produced the song '' Come and get it '' for them...which was released in the UK,December 1969,and US,January 1970...becoming a top ten single,on both sides of the Atlantic.

''Come and get it '' starts :

'' If you want it,here it is,come and get it. ''

Yes,Roger...I tend to agree that there are persuasive reasons,for thinking that this message could be from the Zodiac.

Not least that ''Happy Xmas'' has associations with the Belli letter's envelope,with ''war is over'',being the unofficial title of ''Happy Xmas''.

'' Xmas '' inferred,but actually written by the Zodiac,prior.

Roger

10/31/2019 08:42:49 pm

Some more to consider...

The very fact that the author of the "message in the bottle" chose to set his own dire "message to the world" adrift in the Delta is very interesting. It is as if he was "committing it to the deep" or leaving it entirely to the hands of fate. This reminds me of that line from The Mikado: "Then he plunged himself into the billowy wave. And an echo arose from the suicide's grave "Oh, willow, titwillow, titwillow". The quote comes from the song "On a tree by a river" by W. S. Gilbert and Arthur Sullivan. It is very much a cry for help from someone who is desperate, damned, and drowning. The phrasing of "please help me" is identical to the wording on the Melvin Belli letter mailed on December 20th 1969, in which the Zodiac stated that he was "drowning", and it is also similar to the "I just need help" phrase from the December 7th 1969 Fairfield letter. The content of the Belli letter was of course covered by San Francisco Chronicle in two articles on December 28th and 29th, 1969. However the Fairfield letter which had arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle just 13 days before was not published in the newspapers. The follow up letter on December 16th 1969, mailed to the San Francisco Examiner, also failed to be published. It seems both were presumed to be hoaxes. In the first sentence of the article concerning the Belli letter, the San Francisco Chronicle stated that their newspaper had not heard anything from the Zodiac "in recent weeks". So we can presume they must have discounted the earlier letters. Perhaps only after the Belli letter came to light the other two letters were "remembered" and by that time they were already considered "old news". Their relevance may have been all too easily been dismissed too.

The fact that the bottle was found at Paradise Point is also intriguing given that the Zodiac wrote about "Paradice and Slaves" as a theme or concept. The swampy stream trickling past Paradise Point is known as the White Slough, and just to the west is Disappointment Slough. The names are very reminiscent of the Slough of Despond or "swamp of despair" - a fictional, deep bog in John Bunyan's allegory "The Pilgrim's Progress", into which the main character, a Christian, sinks under the weight of his sins and his sense of guilt for them.

It is difficult to understand how this 1973 message in a bottle could not be taken literally as the work of the Zodiac himself, or someone who was so familiar with his writing style and mental state that the author was mimicking his use of language. A hoax is of course possible, except for the fact that the Zodiac's re-telling of "On a tree by a river" was not received by the San Francisco Chronicle until January 29th 1974. This letter, which has often been referred to as "The Exorcist letter", was to be the last official communication from the Zodiac. It was posted from San Mateo or Santa Clara County and, if we exclude the message in the bottle, it would come after a three year hiatus. Perhaps the real Zodiac had become so afraid of being caught in the act of posting another letter that he had resorted to throwing messages in bottles into the nearest river or stream. It would at least be consistent with his apparent attraction to bodies of water in the hope "pure randomness" would bring him luck.

Richard

11/1/2019 01:09:30 am

Good analysis Roger, certainly ties in nicely.

10/31/2019 03:04:28 am

Hey Sully -- thanks for the youtube video reference. I will definitely watch them!

And I hope you see my response since it is way down here. Computer issue will not let me submit reply messages, only original.

SULLY link

11/2/2019 08:00:14 pm

JD - Anytime, my fellow zodiac profiler.
Since LE nailed the GSK thru his family tree etc, I now believe they might figure it all out soon... but only thru familial DNA. What's your takeaway so far ?

10/31/2019 09:59:26 am

Richard

November 9th 1973 Willie L. Steelman (28) and Douglas E. Gretzler (22)
They Murdered 9 on this day as a tribute.
The thirty fifth anniversary of Kristallnacht
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?
This Willie could be the one.
Was he ever in the military?

Richard

10/31/2019 10:10:58 am

The murders were November 7th 1973 BB. The only information I know is what I read in the article. You'll have to do a bit of digging BB.

11/2/2019 03:23:57 pm

Of the killers Willie L. Steelman (28) and Douglas E. Gretzler (22)
convicted of killing 17 people. Willie was the psychopath. Doug was just a drug addict that later, at-least showed some sign of regret before being put to death. But, the point is Doug was a dupe along for the ride. While Willie lead him in the year long crime spree. What did he do before his rein of terror?

November is the ninth month of the Julian Calendar.

Nine Murdered in November - The Zodiac killer was obsessed with doubles - '' i '' is the ninth letter of the alphabet. They were not using the term serial killer in common parlance at that time. The term was mass murderer. Christmass was the spelling of the Zodiac killer of the word Christmas. To provoke. DNA must be taken of all murderers.
My curiosity of who was the Zodiac is not going away.

10/31/2019 11:13:03 am

Arrested on the 9th
Another fine mess I've gotten myself in
maybe i can save face with this;

Palace Stationary
Paradice Slaves
Paul Stine
Presidio Stockade
Pacific Standard
Post Script

The super computer "Carmel" can think like the Zodiac
It said something in the Pseudo Self poem I find interesting.

"Through the Taxi and the prison break
Alone and angry at a brutal murder

Surrounded by an artificial lake
Never a convicted murderer

Like an agitated battery
A world of pain and murder,
gunman kills"

Where the Pseudo Zodiac Carmel says;
Taxi - it is referring to Paul Stine, what else?
And the prison break has to be when the
mentally disturbed Rusty Bunch was shot
in the back running away from the Stockade
in the Presidio on Oct. 11, 1968.
Hence the revenge tribute kill of Paul Stine
exactly a year later.

And the final lines.

"Like an agitated battery
A world of pain and murder,
gunman kills"

Sounds more like revenge killing rather than the common
sexually perverted serial killer.

Could this be Bates father or boyfriend Dennis Highland.
Or even both of them getting back at someone for the brutal
murder of their beloved CJB.Peace

Also;
Lake Berryessa is an artificial lake.

11/3/2019 06:34:02 pm

Sorry, Sully, didn't realize you had responded til just now. I think they've probably made progress with the DNA, but perhaps came up with conflicting results, possibly due to 2 DNA results obtained. Or, if single DNA suspect, if somehow that person is still alive, they're putting all of their ducks in a row. I think there are a lot of good ideas out here and believe we have the ability to get to the truth with or without the DNA.

SULLY link

11/17/2019 04:30:22 pm

JD - Give me some feedback after you are able to review zsolved14 vids on YT. Thanks for the unbiased views... as opposed to the 'tom voigts' who block anyone not embracing 'their GYKE' 🙄

Roger

11/3/2019 10:17:40 pm

In many ways this whole idea of a message in a bottle seems fitting as a kind of "cork in the bottle" tribute to the entire Zodiac era. Yet in this case, even the act of uncorking the bottle failed to impress. The message got relegated to a few small lines in a local rag, probably forgotten about within a few days of going to print. It seems as if either the Zodiac or someone else had decided to sum everything up in a few despairing lines before casting them into a real life Slough of Despond.

The irony today is that we still find many Zodiac researchers raking through the murky wastes to piece together some kind of order or sense from the scraps. Some manage to glue a few strands together, and on the basis of highly questionable and circumstantial evidence, try to promote their own preferred suspects. Yet most of their theories end up being similarly abandoned to the depths of time. The more bizarre and extravagant ones always tend to sink the fastest.

11/4/2019 02:08:34 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XevaoYhW1iM

Talk about sink the fastest

Roger

11/4/2019 03:00:34 pm

Poor little duck! Minding own business and next thing sucked into the bottomless swirling void. There are echoes of "plunging into the billowing wave, tit willow", for sure. Haha!

Good one BB!

11/4/2019 05:44:39 pm

Thanks Roger - Nobody believes Rick Fowler (what's in a name).
But if the bird lived it was one lucky duck. Even if it was a Comoran.

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ZODIAC'S LOST HIS BOTTLE

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