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Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
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TWO ASSAILANTS AT PRESIDIO HEIGHTS?

6/16/2017

 
The following has been covered many times before on this site, but on this occasion we will examine the premise of two assailants present in the rear of Paul Stine's taxicab at the intersection of Washington and Cherry Streets on October 11th 1969. It is not necessarily a position I subscribe to, however, in the interest of neutrality it must be examined. This will not be based on speculation, it will be reasoned using the three teenage eyewitnesses and the timelines of Donald Fouke and Armond Pelissetti, two of the initial police responders that night.

Many eyewitnesses involved in the Zodiac crimes have changed, if not embellished their testimony down the years, and rightly must treated with skepticism. An ever changing and elaborate story is to be considered suspect. But what we notice in the police report of the Paul Stine murder is very little detail - and a report of only one-and-a-half pages long, drafted by the following morning of October 12th 1969. The three teenagers have been noticeably quiet during the last 48 years, in which publicity seeking opportunism can certainly not be leveled at them. They gave a second account of the night's events on October 11th 1969 in later years - and although one usually views with suspicion, second, third and fourth generation accounts of the same event - their full account of the murder of Paul Stine was never originally made public and documented in a rather limited police report. Their recounting of events at a later date carries much weight, because not only does it explain why a bloody fingerprint was found on the dividing panel between Paul Stine's driver side door and the left rear passenger door, their testimony is fully corroborated by the statement of Armond Pelissetti in the 2007 Zodiac documentary.   
PictureClick to enlarge
This is the statement of the Robbins teenagers "As both Robbins kids were the oldest, their statements were the given the most weight. Also they were the least traumatized by the event. One of the kids (not sure which) noticed a cab parked outside (in that now famous spot) with the interior lights on. So when Lindsey told me that the light inside the car was like a spotlight, it was so bright. The first kid at the window said the driver looked "sick, or something". Lindsey and Rebecca went to the window and saw the driver laying across the front seat, head toward the passenger door. His head was in the lap of another man (passenger). Rebecca saw blood and said out loud, "he's stabbing that man." She was seeing blood on the victim and saw the glint of a knife, so she assumed a stabbing was taking place. (No shots were heard by anyone). We know now that Zodiac was cutting off a large piece of Stine's shirt with the knife.

At this time, Lindsey went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so Lindsey knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by Rebecca. They both watched and observed in silence as Zodiac pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the driver's door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Zodiac pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. When he was finished, Zodiac calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked north. Not many know this, but Lindsey (being 16. feeling immortal, and believing the suspect to be armed with only a knife) ran out of his door to see where Zodiac was going. He ran to the corner of Cherry and watched as Zodiac continued his casual pace right up to the corner of Jackson & Cherry.
At this exact point, the first SFPD car arrives with two officers. One, Pelissetti, approached Lindsey and tried to extract what was happening. The other officer went to the cab and found the bloody victim. While Pelissetti was asking questions, Lindsey was trying to explain that the suspect was in sight on Cherry St. By the time Pelissetti got the point, they both looked and the Zodiac was gone".


Picture
There are two key points to remember in this account:
​#1. "They both watched and observed in silence as Zodiac pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the driver's door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Zodiac pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright". The Zodiac may very likely have deposited bloody fingerprints on the taxicab door divider as he braced his right hand to lever Paul Stine back to a seated position, albeit he didn't remain in this position.

​#2. "
Not many know this, but Lindsey (being 16. feeling immortal, and believing the suspect to be armed with only a knife) ran out of his door to see where Zodiac was going. He ran to the corner of Cherry and watched as Zodiac continued his casual pace right up to the corner of Jackson & Cherry". This was backed up by Armond Pelissetti in the 2007 documentary when he stated "We responded to a radio call that told us a cab driver was being robbed and possibly assaulted at the corner of Cherry and Washington Street in Pacific Heights. We fortunately were very close and responded to that corner, and able to do so red light and siren, and got there very quickly. I parked the car in the middle of the intersection, facing the Yellow Cab. There were three children that were heading over to that car, they were about 15 or 16 feet away. I made the assumption they were coming from the home on the corner and herded them immediately back to that alcove. I didn't know if the suspect was still there.....  It was then I was told it was a white male, I couldn't get to the radio fast enough at that point to let everybody else know. The kids had told me whoever had done this crime had left the cab, went out the door and seemed to be wiping the cab down and reaching into the cab and ambling or walking down Cherry Street in a northerly direction, kind of towards the Presidio. I walked that way myself, I did not run because there are innumerable alcoves and parked cars, so I went down following every technique I knew so I didn't get my head blown off".

It is clear from Officer Armond Pelissetti's statement and that of the three teenagers, that indeed they were milling around near the intersection of Washington and Cherry, not confined in their residence throughout, as one could easily interpret from the police report alone. The testimony of the three teenagers, however, provides a massive headache regarding the perceived order of events that night.  

PictureDonald Fouke
The attack was logged at 9:55 pm, with the police dispatcher sending out the radio message to responding officers at approximately 9:58 pm. This meant that Donald Fouke and Armond Pelissetti both received the initial broadcast at 9:58 pm. Donald Fouke stated he was traveling northbound on Presidio Avenue, having just passed Washington Street. Armond Pelissetti we shall come to shortly.

Donald Fouke stated he saw a male subject as he was approaching the Jackson and Maple Street intersection. The white male adult was close to the intersection. The traveling distance to this point for Donald Fouke is exactly 862 meters (0.5 mile). He stated after receiving the initial broadcast he was traveling at 35-40 mph, but taking into account slowing down as he passed the intersections, it has been calculated that his journey time to the Jackson and Maple intersection from his original position, would have been approximately 1 minute. This places him at the Jackson and Maple intersection at 9:59 pm. This also places the mystery man here at 9:59 pm.

The author of the Bus Bomb letter one month later, stated that "
p.s. 2 cops pulled a goof abot 3 min after I left the cab. I was walking down the hill to the park when this cop car pulled up + one of them called me over + asked if I saw anyone acting suspicious or strange in the last 5 to 10 min + I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber + went around the corner as I directed them + I disappeared into the park a block + a half away never to be seen again". The movements of Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms were never publicized in the newspapers before November 9th 1969, indicating that the author of the Bus Bomb letter knew the exact location of where Donald Fouke's patrol car was at exactly the right time. This means the man spotted by Donald Fouke was most likely the author of the Bus Bomb letter. But was he the killer? The journey time up Cherry Street is 1 minute. The journey time from the top of Cherry to the intersection of Jackson and Maple is about 2 minutes, corroborating the letter writer when he stated "p.s. 2 cops pulled a goof abot 3 min after I left the cab". Working backwards, this places the mystery man at the top of Cherry at 9:57 pm, and leaving the taxicab at 9:56 pm. (shown on the map below).

Picture
Now, remember what the three teenagers stated: "Not many know this, but Lindsey (being 16. feeling immortal, and believing the suspect to be armed with only a knife) ran out of his door to see where Zodiac was going. He ran to the corner of Cherry and watched as Zodiac continued his casual pace right up to the corner of Jackson & Cherry.
At this exact point, the first SFPD car arrives with two officers. One, Pelissetti, approached Lindsey and tried to extract what was happening. The other officer went to the cab and found the bloody victim. While Pelissetti was asking questions, Lindsey was trying to explain that the suspect was in sight on Cherry St. By the time Pelissetti got the point, they both looked and the Zodiac was gone".

When Armond Pelissetti arrived, the suspect was in sight approaching the corner of Jackson and Cherry. We know from the diagram above, this was 9:57 pm. Therefore, Armond Pelissetti must have arrived at the corner of Washington and Cherry Street at about 9:57 pm. However, this is very odd, because Armond Pelissetti didn't even get the initial radio broadcast until 9:58 pm, and still had to travel to the scene "red light and siren".

We know that Armond Pelissetti didn't arrive at the crime scene at 9:56 pm or earlier, because we know Zodiac left the taxicab at 9:56 pm and reached the top of Cherry at 9:57 pm. He couldn't have arrived at 9:56:30 pm, because the mystery man would have only journeyed half way up Cherry (30 seconds traveling time on a 1 minute street). So it is clear that Armond Pelissetti did arrive at 9:57 pm. Therefore, Armond Pelissetti received the initial broadcast prior to 9:57 pm. He stated in the Zodiac 2007 documentary "
We fortunately were very close and responded to that corner, and able to do so red light and siren at 9:55 pm at night, and got there very quickly". This time of 9:55 pm makes perfect sense. They "were very close" and would have been exactly two minutes traveling time away from the intersection of Washington and Cherry when they received the initial broadcast, arriving at the intersection at 9:57 pm, just as Zodiac was approaching the top of Cherry. This means the logged attack and initial broadcast would have been 9:55 pm, not 9:58 pm, as detailed in the police report. But here is the major problem.    
Picture
Donald Fouke received the initial broadcast at the same time as Armond Pelissetti. So, if Armond Pelissetti received the initial broadcast at 9:55 pm, Donald Fouke received it at 9:55 pm. His journey time traveling northbound on Presidio Avenue, having just passed Washington Street (his initial position that night) to the intersection of Jackson and Maple is again 1 minute. He would now arrive at Jackson and Maple at 9:56 pm, where he viewed the suspect. The problem is, we know from all the above facts, along with the map, that Zodiac had left the taxicab crime scene at 9:56 pm. He cannot be in both places at the same time, separated by 3 minutes walking time. This is a major discrepancy, if we use the corroborated timeline of Armond Pelissetti and the three teenagers.
This would place Zodiac leaving the crime scene at 9:56 pm, and approaching the Jackson and Maple intersection at 9:56 pm.     

We surely cannot have Donald Fouke spotting Zodiac at 9:56 pm, because this would have him leaving the taxicab at 9:53 pm, two minutes before the actual attack occurred. Additionally, Armond Pelissetti would not have been at the Washington and Cherry intersection, when Zodiac was apparently approaching the northern edge of Cherry at 9:57 pm (it doesn't take Zodiac 4 minutes to walk up Cherry). So could Donald Fouke have been mistaken and never saw the Zodiac Killer at all. This doesn't seem likely, as we know the author of the Bus Bomb letter knew that "2 cops" were present at the intersection of Jackson and Maple that night, something not disclosed in the newspapers. Therefore, is it possible Donald Fouke saw the "letter writer" traveling along Jackson Street,  but not his accomplice, who was just leaving the taxicab.

We know that Donald Fouke in the 1989 'Crimes of the Century' documentary, stated that after receiving the initial broadcast "We proceeded on Jackson Street towards Arguello continuing our search, as we arrived at Arguello Street the description of the suspect was changed to a white male adult, believing this suspect was possibly the one involved in the shooting we entered the Presidio of San Francisco and conducted a search on West Pacific Avenue, the opposite side of the wall and the last direction we observed the suspect going, we did not find the suspect". The question arose, as to why Donald Fouke was heading towards Arguello Boulevard, away from the crime scene of an "assault and robbery" when he should have been heading towards it. The logical assumption was that he did indeed stop Zodiac - and Zodiac directed him that way. If there were two assailants, and one was still present near or at the crime scene, it would make perfect sense for the accomplice on Jackson Street to direct Donald Fouke away towards Arguello Boulevard to protect his accomplice.          

Picture
The teenagers never saw the taxicab pull up to the corner of Washington and Cherry Street, they only began observing the crime when the man was already in the front passenger seat of the taxicab. They never observed or heard the shooting, so it could never be claimed as fact or certainty, that the man observed tearing a swatch of Paul Stine's shirt was the actual killer of the taxicab driver. His accomplice may have already shot Paul Stine and cleared the intersection of Washington and Cherry Street before the three teenagers even looked out of the window. If this man (the actual killer) was the man spotted by Donald Fouke at 9:56 pm by Jackson and Maple, he would have left the taxicab at 9:53 pm, before the teenagers looked out of the window at approximately 9:55 pm, and would now back up the timeline of Donald Fouke receiving the initial broadcast at 9:55 pm. This man may very well have been the trigger man, while his accomplice stayed behind to secure the swatch of Paul Stine's shirt. This would have been the man observed by the three teenagers, not the killer. This would have reduced the risk of capture for the man holding the 'smoking gun.' Had the police arrived as his accomplice was tearing a piece of shirt, he could simply have claimed to be a passer by, who was aiding the stricken taxicab driver. After all, Paul Stine was shot and this man possessed no gun. This places the killer at Jackson and Maple at 9:56 pm, and his accomplice leaving the scene of crime at 9:56 pm. Donald Fouke is directed to Arguello Boulevard by the killer, leaving a clear path for his accomplice traveling up Cherry to a predetermined destination and meeting place.       

Picture
This lends credence to arguments given by such people as Thomas Horan, who claim that the individual seen by the three teenagers and Donald Fouke are actually two separate people. Here are the two descriptions given:

#1. The three teenagers stated in the police report that the subject was a "WMA, in his early forties, 5'8", heavy build, reddish-blond, crew cut hair. wearing eyeglasses, dark brown trousers, dark (navy blue or black) "Parka" jacket, dark shoes.

#2. Donald Fouke in his typed memorandum on November 12th 1969 stated he was a "WMA, 35-45 yrs, about 5'10", 180-200 lbs, medium heavy build, barrel chested, medium complexion, light colored hair possibly graying in rear, crew cut, wearing glasses".
 
These descriptions appear to indicate that the person spotted by the teenagers and Donald Fouke were one and the same, again exposing the deep flaws in the timelines examined that night. Donald Fouke would later remark on the sketch of the suspect given by the three teenagers, stating he believed the suspect to be "older and heavier." However, he never apparently challenged the facial description of the suspect. So was he mistaken and just went along with the description given by the teenagers, or was it the same person all along? The timeline seems to challenge this notion. Were the two accomplices related, wearing the same disguise, or just visually similar, with a crew cut and glasses? As stated at the beginning, I am not closed to the idea of two assailants at Presidio Heights on October 11th 1969, but neither am I totally convinced either. The timeline is the key.

Alex Lewis link
6/18/2017 01:05:25 pm

Hey Rich, Apologies in advance for this not really being related to the Article above

I think mate that the timeline not fitting etc is simply due to the players involved holding something back that they are not telling us about that happened that night rather than the explanation being more than one offender.

If Fouke was on Presidio Avenue having just gone through Washington St Intersection when He recives and responds to the same broadcast as Pelissetti then He should be on scene within 60 seconds or so and yet Pelissetti arrives there first and has time to exit His vehicle, walk over to the Robbins kids, usher them back Home and converse with them, discover it's a WMA then go broadcast the update via car radio, go over and check Mr Stine and the scene and determine that He is 99.9% certain Paul's Deceased, then cautiously walk, not ran, onto and then the entire length of Cherry Street almost to the Jackson Intersection before Don and Eric get to Cherry and Jackson themselves.

Now that they are there, Don states He learned from Armond the suspect was white and gasped "Ohh! That was the suspect" referring to a WMA He had just passed, to which Armond replies "Uhhh, He did NOT mention to Me that He had seen anybody at that point, nor that He had stopped someone." Clearly refuting Don's claim.

Armond went on to then suggest: "I spoke to Officer Fouke later that evening and uh, I was unaware that He had stopped anybody, Black, White, or any other color. However, in subsequent conversations with Him He told Me that He did stop somebody..."

Fouke's reply to this was: "We (He and Zelms) never stopped the Man, We never talked to Him! That is an emphatic statement by me! I wouldn't make the denial!"

Back to Armond: "He (Fouke) told Me that He saw a man walking by and that He stopped and asked that man did He see anybody go By & the person said 'No." (This is different to what He said in 1989 because then He claims that Don told Him that the person actually said "Yes, A Man just ran into the Presidio.") Armond continues in 2008 "It seemed Officer Fouke felt in that amount of time that He had stopped the Zodiac."

Fouke Replied to this with : "We did NOT stop the Zodiac! We Didn't stop anyone! I wish Eric Zelms were alive today to tell You so!"

So, either they are changing their accounts as both have more than once and pointing the finger of blame and accusing the other of lying and essentially committing deception by writing up faule and non true crime reports because they are bored and like to make themselves look like incompetent and worse, corrupt police officer because they have nothing else to do or, far more logically and likely, their discrepancies and mis-matching accounts are due to them covering something up that they can't/won't admit to having happened that night.

PS - I found this Interview with Toschi speaking of the recent reception of a Zodiac letter from 1969 that I had never before seen and, if I'm guessing correct, I doubt many others would have either.

Link: https://diva.sfsu.edu/bundles/231078

Alex Lewis
6/18/2017 01:07:48 pm

Ignore the opening sentence above where I apologise for the post not having anything to do with Your Article Rich, I pasted the wrong sentence in and simply forgot to erase it before posting the above.

Richard
6/18/2017 01:28:18 pm

Yes Alex, there is at least a three minute discrepancy, because as we both know Pelissetti needed at least 4 minutes arriving and at the crime scene, so simply couldn't meet Fouke at the top of Cherry. Like you said he would already have reached the crime scene, which he didn't. We both know why-he was directed to Arguello, received the update and then headed to West Pacific Avenue looking for Zodiac. Only on his return from the failed search, did he then bump into Pelissetti. I have seen that video Alex. When the new footage of LHR came out, so did another 5 or 6 videos. Here is the whole list
https://diva.sfsu.edu/search?q=zodiac+killer+&go=Go

Alex Lewis
6/18/2017 07:54:07 pm

Tell You what would account quite nicely for the several extra minutes Don seemed to take to get to Jax & Cherry area, and it's something that I Myself have not come up with but has long been rumoured to have happened and that is that a Patrol Car was alleged to have stopped after the Cops in it encountered a White Male that they placed in the rear of their vehicle.

Now this is obviously pure speculation but, what if this was actually true and the White Male Don placed in His Patrol Car He did so after asking the Man who He was and learned that this White Male is a Gentleman by the Name of Xenophon L. Anthony?

"Yes Officer, sure. . . My reason for being in this area is due to My living here. Yes, on this street. What's My Address? Well, it's just a couple blocks further on down the street Officer at Thirty Two Eighteen. Would I like A Ride Home due to a gunman being on the loose in this area?. . .Sure thing Officer and Thank You for warning Me and. . . I'll just get in..."

That would be a distance of 0.4 of a mile from Maple on Jackson to 3218 Jackson and take 2 minutes going speed limit which Fouke said heading up Jackson He was doing over the 25MPH speed limit at 35/40MPH so it's logical to assume He would do the same or similar speed going the other way on Jackson so that would be, what. . . minute & half each way equating to a 3 Minute round trip down and back up? That just about seems, in theory at least, to account for Fouke 'Missing Time' experience of a few Minutes.

They could have picked Zodiac Himself up and drove Him home dropping Him off on His doorstep to protect Him from The Gunman who is loose in the area that just happened to be the man who they had in the rear of their patrol car and dropped back home to his residence.

Zodiac really would be justified to snigger that "PS: 2 Cops pulled a goof. . ."

Richard
6/19/2017 03:08:29 am

As I said in the article Alex, I don't necessarily subscribe to a two attacker idea, but it certainly cannot be ruled out. When the initial radio broadcast went out, it certainly went out to Pelissetti and Fouke at the same time. The 'missing' 3-4 minutes could easily be accounted for by Zodiac directing Fouke to Arguello and WPA. This however is not the only possibility as you allude. I have heard the story/rumour of a man being seen in the back of a police vehicle. This could easily have been a response by police to the 8 year old identification of Xen. Not necessarily being taken off the street as you suggest, but equally possibly being taken from his residence. I don't know when the police were informed of the sighting of Xen, was it immediately after the crime, the next day, or sometime later. IF the 8 year old and his family informed police in the immediate aftermath of the crime. (It is known police swept the nearby streets with dogs, checking residences), then their information would have been acted upon immediately, especially if the 8 year old spotted Xen in the vicinity of the taxicab. It would be understandable then, that Xen would have likely been taken away and questioned, or at the very least temporarily secured in a police vehicle. The sighting of the man in the police vehicle could possibly have been Xen, the only problem is we don't know exactly when this sighting took place. But it's certainly an angle. Whatever we subscribe to, the timeline portrayed in the 2007 documentary is 100% false. The 1989 Crimes of the Century documentary however, as you pointed out years ago, makes perfect sense from Donald Fouke's standpoint, but as we both know points to him having stopped Zodiac.

Alex Lewis
6/20/2017 01:28:57 pm

Well I wrote that Xen picked up by Fouke Rich with from a similar perspective or approach as that of Your Article. I am not saying that what I write I now believe, nor even support as a theory over and above other theories, I simply wrote it as a kinda "We have Fouke with several minute unaccounted for, this scenario would explain these missing minutes perfectly" POV but am not saying because I wrote it, I automatically must therefore Believe it or subscribe to what it is I am suggesting. :-)

Richard
6/19/2017 12:07:22 pm

Did you know Alex the FBI has stopped taking FOIA requests via email. It is now much harder to access information that should be freely available. The restriction of information will put a blocker on accessing much more Zodiac information to push this case forward.
Ir makes me laugh when the police ask the public for any information regarding cold cases, no matter how big or small, and when you contact them, they always completely blank you. They never reply, even when the information is significant. I'm afraid it looks to me like a public relations exercise, so they look like they care in the public eye. It is smoke and mirrors, but I guess you knew that already.

Alex Lewis
6/20/2017 12:20:20 pm

"Did you know Alex the FBI has stopped taking FOIA requests via email."

Had no idea mate, No. That makes Me glad and thankful I filed for, and received back, the information I have got. See now many will say it's simply a case of there being far far to many requests via email that it creates a long backlog of requests and bogs the FBI FOIA Agent down with too much case-work & while Yes, this is probably true and accurate, it it also, in my opinion, a way to deter people filing FOIA Requests, especially those that are filed Internationally. If the FBI Case Agents are crying their case load is too heavy then I sympathise to a degree but, take on more staff/agents to clear that backlog?

If the Freedom of Information Act is Law, which it obviously is, then surely they can't just decide willy nilly on how that law is implemented and enforced. If part of their abandoning the submitting requests via email is to deter potential requesters from sending one then I have to say, in My own case, it's worked cause I don't think I would want the hassle of writing one out on paper, then posting it via the mail.

Alex Lewis
6/20/2017 12:37:04 pm

I mean don't get me started Rich cause I will have one of my infamously long rants about this lol.

For a long time I have found it very amusing that We (United Kingdom & United States) are said to be Democratic Countries, which is defined as 'Government for the people, by the people' which is highly amusing when You see the way the Government Governs. For example, how can it be that in the land of Democracy & Freedom , The US, a place exists called AREA 51 that is funded exclusively by the US Tax payer! However, those same tax payers are not permitted to know what is going on at that facility, it's purpose, and most importantly, what their Tax Dollars are being used for / spent on.

Now I know and understand the need for some thing to be secret to protect the National Security but this is and has been now for a long time simply abused and it's used to justify anything that the Gvmnt don't want the public knowing. For example. . . The documents and files that relate to President John F. Kennedy's assassination have been sealed for a minimum of 50 years from public availability due to 'National Security'. Now that, in My opinion, is just a way of legally covering something up that they know and don't want us the people to know and doing it under the guise of National Security because that's exempt from FOIA Disclosure.

Carl Karas
7/30/2017 06:41:30 am

the three teenagers stated "Not many know this, but Lindsey (being 16. feeling immortal, and believing the suspect to be armed with only a knife) ran out of his door to see where Zodiac was going. He ran to the corner of Cherry and watched as Zodiac continued his casual pace right up to the corner of Jackson & Cherry.
At this exact point, the first SFPD car arrives with two officers. One, Pelissetti, approached Lindsey and tried to extract what was happening. The other officer went to the cab and found the bloody victim. While Pelissetti was asking questions, Lindsey was trying to explain that the suspect was in sight on Cherry St. By the time Pelissetti got the point, they both looked and the Zodiac was gone."
The above could have taken awhile, and would slacken up your timeline. It might have taken the teens some time to actually be able to explain to the cops that the man they saw might still be in sight.

Alex Lewis
7/30/2017 11:01:12 am

Well it did take a while!

Unfortunately, it would appear, Army Fell-off-The-settee forgot momentarily how to speak the English Language. Lindsey desperate in His attempts to get Army to comprehend as Lindsey stands in front of Armond Stating. . .

"Officer, there He is! Look, down there!!" .

Pelissetti: "Huuuuh?

Lindsey, frantically pointing down Cherry: "The Man who just did this, He's there look. . . quick He is steps from the end of Cherry Street!"

Armond.... "Can somebody tell me what this Youngster is mumbling and raving about please, pissing Me off now It is... F off Kid!!! No Comprehend!"

Lindsey, who just by pointing in a certain direction or down a specific street with a panicked expression would tell Me and anybody with half a brain-cell what the kid is saying even if I no longer remember how to speak My Native and First Language for a little bit of time!

It took Investigator Armond over a minute to put pointing furiously together with an urgent demand that "THERE HE IS OFFICER DOWN THERE!" before SFPD's Finest thinking about Doughnuts and a light-bulb went on 'BING'

...Ohhhh, You mean suspect is on that street in view???"

Hold On! I think He may have finally worked it out. . . Bit too late now though Patrol Officer Harmy Pelissetti as the suspect is probably now checking in to the Wetin St. Francis Hotel the time taken for You to investigate hot to successfully communicate with Member of Public. Don't ever run at Pelissetti shouting "Officer....Help Me, Help Me Officer there's A: Five Reports in a row.... BANG, BANG, BANG. . . BANG BANG...

Radio: Cuurssssh.... All Units Shots Fired Shots Fired! Lunatic Running at Me armed with.....Armed with a six pack of beer A uhh, a potentially deadly weapon when shaken and cracked open, Arhhh, Blind Me instantly and uhhh suspect down and now dead, repeat Suspect is deceased!

In His official Report He recites: White Male, running at Olympic track and field pace....straight at Myself while He foamed and frothing at the Mouth ran so fast at me going "RAAAARRRRR" that at one point I believe He even began to leave the ground and Hit V1.....Rotate! Self Defence!

John Corbin link
5/22/2020 08:56:45 am

I think it should be noted these 1, 2, or even 3 minute discrepancies in time can--and maybe should be accredited to the fact that all time pieces in those days, even those plugged into a wall were all subject to those persons setting them. Watches can be ahead or behind a minute or three! It's not like today where the time on our cell phones is set by the tower. Also, police officers will RARELY admit to screw ups or inadequacies! Didn't it take Fouke and Zelms several DAYS before they admitted to talking to the man who fit the Zodiac description because they were ashamed of their screw up? It's interesting but Mrs. Zelms stated that what her husband told her that night is more in line with what the Zodiac said in his letters than the "official police report" that came out. Zelms was surely riding shotgun and was most likely the one who was closest to the Zodiac as they spoke to him, and thus got the better look at him. In short: you can't discount police arrogance, which was in great abundance in those days!!

Richard
5/22/2020 09:22:40 am

What time their watches were set to is an irrelevance. The two patrol units in question got the first APB at the same time. Time zero.

If two people begin a journey at the same time, it doesn't matter if one watch is set 9:58 pm and one to 10:00 pm. It's about the distance you can travel in a set time.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-update-at-arguello

John Corbin
5/23/2020 01:17:23 pm

But more importantly, you can't rely on Fouke and Zelms' testimony because they lied about their observation of the WMA "lumbering along Jackson." They withheld the truth because they know they screwed up! And, like you yourself have said, why did they travel down to Arguello and turn onto Pacific Avenue unless they felt they had good reason to go that way? Because they DID talk to the Zodiac and they fudged on when they said they heard the BOLO and their interraction with the Zodiac was probably at least 20 seconds. When they heard the BOLO they would note the time, but they probably did that by their watches. So when they say, "Fuck! That was the guy! The guy we just talked to!" They think, "Oh shit. We screwed up." Fouke, the senior officer, lies and doesn't admit to talking to the Zodiac. Again, Mrs. Zelms later said that what the Zodiac said in his letters about the cops 'pulling a goof" was what Zelms had described to her, what had happened. What I'm saying is there might have been an official time when the APB went out, but when the various officers make a note of it, there was no sophisticated system of marking the time, or comparing each officer's time pieces with the "official time." There were variances in perceived time and actual time. And so, these details are entirely relevant. Fouke and Zelms weren't honest about their journey, where they were exactly when the BOLO went out. Now, if there had been LoJac's on the squad cars or some way of pinpointing where they actually were...The big variable here is we can't rely on the officers' statements. I don't think we can simply say, "Well, who are you going to believe? Two officers of the law, or a murderer?l" I think it's most likely Fouke and Zelms either slowed to a crawl and questioned the Zodiac or a complete stop. He probably didn't step from the sidewalk but remained and Fouke and Zelms most likely pulled up closer to the curb. You're right the time to travel the distance is measurable; however, when you can't rely on cops to tell the truth without trying to avoid their assess being on the line, we cannot assume they were where they said they were when the heard the call. Zelms obviously didn't feel right about how things were reported because he confided in his wife the truth! His conscience either bothered him or he hated, being the junior officer, having to suck it up and go along with the lie most likely enforced by Fouke.


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