THE ZODIAC & RIDDLER NOTES

3/22/2019

Although this is questionable Zodiac material, it does appear in the FBI files and has never been featured before - so I thought I would try to unearth as much information as possible, despite the limited coverage provided by the documents available. On November 19th 1969 two notes or slips of paper, labelled Questioned Documents 1 and 2, were discovered at a Marine Amphibious Force Base.
They read as follows:

Q1. Slip of paper bearing hand printing beginning "Dear Gunny Kramer, This is the Zodiac speaking" and ending "take head Zodiac" [sic]. Should be heed.
Q2 Slip of paper bearing hand printing beginning "Dear Jim; Here I am again" and ending "the Zodiac & The Ridder".

The address at the top left of the FBI file reads Office of the Provost Marshall. 1st Marine Division (Rein), San Francisco 96602. The zip code being a non-designated land mass, Armed Forces Pacific, USA.

The only crumb I could note from these two communications was the phrase "Here I am again", vaguely reminiscent of the letter mailed to the San Francisco Chronicle on April 24th 1978, where the author declared "I am back with you. Tell herb caen I am here." I may also have identified Gunner Kramer in the 'Air Ground Team, Marine Amphibious Force', listed in the PLANS BRANCH as MCDC LNO (GND) MAJ KRAMER, R I. Dated 1968 through 1969. There was a Holebaeur, J F, Brown, J L, Waterstreet, J R and Bailey J R from the same PLANS BRANCH section. One of these men may have been the recipient of the second note.

Here is the FBI file regarding "the Zodiac & The Riddler":

Clearly, access to military facilities are restricted, so the Zodiac Killer can't just wander in off the street. Handwriting comparisons were done on military personnel to find a match to the two notes, but failed to identify an individual because of the distorted nature of the questioned handwriting. The notes were also compared to known Zodiac writing, with the conclusion equally inconclusive.

Here is another excerpt from the FBI files about an Employment Manager at Yosemite Park suggesting another YFC employee exhibited a distinct likeness to the picture of Zodiac. What is curious about this FBI file, is it states "Law Enforcement Ranger, Yosemite National Park, California, advised on January 12th 1969, that the Employment Manager of Yosemite Park and Curry Company, recently observed publicity relative to the wanted killer known as Zodiac". How does he advise this only 23 days after the Lake Herman Road double murder, when nobody knew what Zodiac looked like.

28 Comments

3/22/2019 10:38:32 am

Just speculating - but to me it sounds like the Kramer referenced here is the Riddler and the Jim referenced is the Zodiac.

Somebody - please tell me if this correct. Got to check with others to make sure 100% correct.

Also, was this before he came out publicly with the call sign the Zodiac?

Richard

3/22/2019 12:06:18 pm

There was a Holebaeur, J F, Brown, J L. and Bailey J R from the same PLANS BRANCH section. So, my guess is one of these men are the Jim in question. The two notes left in the same area to discover.

Richard

3/22/2019 12:23:36 pm

Updated article with extended list.

Richard

3/22/2019 12:32:19 pm

Also, was this before he came out publicly with the call sign the Zodiac? No

Richard

3/22/2019 12:33:41 pm

Also, was this before he came out publicly with the call sign the Zodiac? But the Yosemite thing was.

Shawn

3/22/2019 01:58:39 pm

The last Episode of the Batman TV Series was on PI day. 3/14/1968

Rubislaw 32 link

3/22/2019 12:55:05 pm

Thanks for posting this topic,Richard....and there is a veritable ''minefield'' of potential clues,as in keeping with ''The Riddler'',himself.

I can't help thinking that,we might be looking in part,at the ''North Hollywood Hoaxer'',that came into his own,four years later,at the time of The Hearst kidnapping....with his typewriter's ''dodgy m''.

''Gunny Kramer'' could be Jewish film director,Stanley Kramer,known more a multitude of successful films,including ''High Noon'',''It's a mad,mad,mad,mad world'',and ''On the Beach''...a film about a submarine,post nuclear holocaust,and featured The Golden Gate Bridge.

''Jim'' was featured in the ''North Hollywood Hoaxer'' 's work,and I have ventured ''Captain James T Kirk''....''Jim'' in ''Star Trek''.

''Sergeant''...again a redacted sergeant,from the ''North Hollywood Hoaxer''.I have ventured ''Sergeant Pepper''.

The Zodiac even possibly became the author of ''The New Canaan'' letters [..I believe so...],and offered a cipher riddle,with his ''Z263'' cipher.

The Zodiac and hoaxers,of the time,and proximity...used ''riddling'',as part of the ''name of the game''.Most of them ''loopy'',but with fertile imaginations.

We just have to try to ''rake away stones'',hoe,dig and plough,to uncover the ''bare earth'' of their truth.

Rubislaw 32 link

3/22/2019 01:17:45 pm

'' It's life,Jim,but not as we know it.''

Mr.Spock [misquote].

Richard

3/22/2019 01:49:54 pm

It's certainly beyond this world!

Rubislaw 32 link

3/23/2019 04:10:48 am

Just on the basis of redaction length,and clasping at straws,admittedly,the ''Sergeant'' might be Sergeant Ernest Bilko.

With the Zodiac's apparent liking [..even adoration [?]..] for Groucho Marx,it does seem as if he enjoyed ''wisecrack'' humour.

J.D.

3/23/2019 04:17:12 am

I must say, Richard, I am glad your hiatus was brief. As always, you find the most interesting material to ponder, and your perception regarding the S.L.A. letters put forth some very thought-provoking revelations. I do have to say, in light of this article, with the mentioning of the Batman television series and the Riddler, I really had to roll my eyes when I saw the list of Marine Corps names. One of those men really was "crack proof." At least as far as crockodile cracking is concerned. Forgive my tongue-in-cheek remark, but I couldn't quite let that one go. I'm guessing that the Yosemite file date was merely a typo. The date could have been 11/12/69, or any date after the month of April for that matter. As always, thank you for your work and most valuable input.

Richard

3/23/2019 04:59:13 am

It's really difficult trying to squeeze probably something out of nothing, but as Rubislaw puts it, these files and little heard 'letters' deserve an airing. Unlikely Zodiac, but you never can be 100% sure. The idea that a letter doesn't look like Zodiac isn't necessarily proof it isn't, because if you can be bothered to imitate or copycat Zodiac, then you should be able to do a half-decent job. I noticed the other day Chief Martin Lee said on November 12th or thereabouts, that Zodiac was deliberately misspelling because his 340 and 408 ciphers showed the opposite, of an intelligent and extremely organized individual with his neatness in the ciphers. Then came the scruffy disorganized codes in both Fairfield letters. Not necessarily proof the comments are linked to this change, but it makes you wonder. The Batman connection has certainly been covered extensively, so it's definitely interesting from that aspect. The obvious answer to this riddle is a serviceman playing a prank, but you never know.
In terms of the Yosemite file, I did consider they may have got the date reversed, until I noticed the follow up date of 4/11/69. The FBI files do contain many mistakes, but nevertheless, a curious passage. Cheers JD.

J.D.

3/24/2019 04:00:34 am

I think the more you put out there, the better. As you say, in this instance it was probably a prank or inside joke among servicemen, but one never knows. One day someone might just be looking over this material and come to the realization that they know something of great value--something they never even realized until whatever clue causes them to connect the dots.

I do think Z was misspelling his words on purpose, maybe as part of the anti-establishment mindset, or just for personal amusement. And you brought up an interesting point re: the disorganized codes. Perhaps in his own way he was snubbing his nose at Chief Martin, or maybe the effort he put into the ciphers depended on his mood.

On a final note, I hope it didn't sound like I was rolling my eyes at the material you presented. If I would choose my words more carefully I would have made it clear that I was actually rolling my eyes at myself, at the quip that came to mind when I read the list of servicemen. Thanks for the Halloween card - Batman - Zodiac link below. That gentleman has some intriguing ideas as well. Have a good day.

Shawn

3/24/2019 06:59:17 am

"The FBI files"

I have not looked at the FBI File in several years until recently.

It seems there has not been any recent additions to the FBI files.

Does this mean the FBI is no longer analyzing much Zodiac material
anymore? or just haven't updated the files with new updates yet?

Any thoughts?

Richard

3/24/2019 08:44:02 am

Have you seen docs on here
http://zodiacrevisited.com/zodiac-killer-fbi-document-release/

There is a better copy of the SLA letter in these files that shows a postmark - admittedly not readable, but it certainly was at one point, if we compare this to the version on Tom's site, you can see a massive difference. Imagine what it was like 2 or 3 generations earlier.

Richard

3/24/2019 08:47:10 am

Or you can view the envelope here, along with a proper version of the letter.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/sla-letter.html

Rubislaw 32 link

3/23/2019 04:26:06 am

I told my psychiatrist that I was having suicidal thoughts.

He told me :

''From now on,you pay in advance.''.

Richard

3/23/2019 04:41:19 am

I do like Groucho. Tee hee.

Richard

3/23/2019 11:11:14 am

http://340cipherhalloweencardconnection.blogspot.com/2015/06/batman-and-zodiac-killer.html

Richard

3/23/2019 11:23:03 am

DC COMICS

The Mikado was Dr. Jerry T. Spaulding, a physician who worked at a hospital in a Hub City slum, performing emergency surgery on the victims of urban violence. He gained a reputation as one of the few doctors who actually cared about the people he was helping. Unfortunately for Hub City and its guardian the Question, the anguish caused by all the pain and suffering around him took its toll. A lover of fine comedy, including Gilbert and Sullivan's comic opera The Mikado, Dr. Spaulding decided to take the fight to the people who had caused all the pain. Wearing a mask of Japanese design, he adopted the nom du guerre "the Mikado" and began a series of attacks on the people who were causing all the pain. When he visited a prospective victim, the Mikado chanted:
"My object all sublime .. . I shall achieve in time - to let the punishment fit the crime."

The Riddler (Edward Nigma or Nygma) is a fictional supervillain appearing in comic books published by DC Comics, created by Bill Finger and Dick Sprang. He first appeared in Detective Comics #140 (October 1948). The character is commonly depicted as a criminal mastermind in Gotham City who takes delight in incorporating riddles and puzzles into his schemes, leaving them as clues for the authorities to solve. The Riddler is one of the most enduring enemies of superhero Batman and belongs to the collective of adversaries that make up his rogues gallery.

Richard

3/23/2019 11:24:26 am

The Mikado's name was taken from that of the Gilbert & Sullivan opera of the same name, and his chant is a line of a song sung by The Mikado, the Emperor of Japan, in Act II. The name of his alter ego was taken from the Groucho Marx character, Captain Spaulding. Marx portrayed Ko-Ko in The Mikado on television late in his career (1960).

Richard

3/23/2019 11:29:11 am

The Riddler and the Question ?

The Question (real name Charles Victor Szasz, better known as Vic Sage) is a fictional character, a superhero appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics. Created by writer-artist Steve Ditko, the Question first appeared in Charlton Comics' Blue Beetle #1 (June 1967). The character was acquired by DC Comics in the early 1980s and incorporated into the DC Universe.

Richard

3/23/2019 11:57:33 am

Captain Jeffrey T. Spaulding is a fictional character in the Broadway musical Animal Crackers and the film of the same name. He was originally played by actor Groucho Marx, one of the Marx Brothers, in both productions.[1] Despite his middle name being Edgar, he is known as Jeffrey T. Spaulding; his first name is also spelled as "Geoffrey" in parts of the film.

Spaulding had a theme song entitled "Hooray for Captain Spaulding", composed by Bert Kalmar and Harry Ruby, which all of the guests sing upon his arrival. This song would go on to be associated with Marx for the rest of his life in public ; it was the theme for his television series You Bet Your Life and was often played when he was introduced as a guest on television shows.

Richard

3/23/2019 12:00:34 pm

The Zodiac Killer described The Exorcist as, "the best satirical comedy that I have ever seen". Well this may not be the case, however, the genesis of the movie may well have been born with the help of a comedy genius, that of Groucho Marx.
The Exorcist author William Peter Blatty was a close friend of Groucho Marx, indeed, there was an intention by Marx to dress as the priest Father Lankester Merrin from the movie and appear on the set of the Exorcist film, but due to scheduling matters, the comedic entrance never materialized. But in one episode of the popular 'You Bet Your Life' series, hosted by Groucho Marx, William Peter Blatty was a contestant and walked away with a prize of $10,000. When he was asked what he was going to do with the money, he stated he was to take some time off to work on a novel. That novel was the acclaimed forerunner to the movie 'The Exorcist'.
Groucho Marx was a lifelong fan of the Gilbert and Sullivan operas, appearing as KoKo, in a production of the Mikado, on NBC's Bell Telephone Hour in 1960. He also recited Tit Willow in 1960 and on the Dick Cavett Show on March 20th 1970.

William Peter Blatty released a novel in 1966, entitled 'Twinkle,Twinkle Killer Kane'. It achieved little commercial or critical acclaim.
The story centers on a psychiatrist, 'killer Kane' (Hudson L Kane), and explores faith, humanity and irony. He enters a madhouse to determine if its residents, comprised of soldiers and astronauts, are actually mad or just putting on an act.
This results in extended interaction with resident Manfred Cutshaw on the concept of God. In the story Kane postulates 'every man who has ever lived has been born with desire for perfect happiness. But unless there is an afterlife, fulfillment of this desire is a patent impossibility'.

Drew

3/23/2019 05:44:24 pm

Blatty on Marx show...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrnzDMbFHkY

I have some odd trivia to add, though you are probably already aware. Blatty wrote the Exorcist in a cabin near Lake Tahoe in 1970. Also odd, when Blatty wrote/directed the terrific Exorcist 3 in 1990 about the return of his surrogate Zodiac character the Gemini Killer, simultaneously in real life the New York Zodiac emerged. Soon after the Eureka card arrives with the image of the 2 keys and a bunny on the front looking at a snowman with Groucho glasses and moustache. Creepier still, apparently Dahmer was obsessed with Exorcist 3 and would watch it ritually (at least once anyway) to get in the zone before a murder. This practise kind of led to his capture actually because once his captive noticed Dahmer was watching it in an entranced state the distraction allowed him to make his escape. Anyways there's my contribution for today! Cheers

Rubislaw 32 link

3/23/2019 01:27:16 pm

Some great information posted,Richard,with a few ''titbits'' that I had not come across,before.

''Mikado'' literally means ''honourable gate or portal'',but has a more ''nebulous'' meaning in Japanese culture,as ''Son of Heaven''.

Perhaps,in contrast to the ''Riding the Dragon'' depiction,on the ''Dragon Card'',where we ''might'' be seeing ''Son of Satan'' wrestling control from his father.

In effect ''Sons of Christ and the Anti-Christ'',in the ''picture''.

There is quite a lengthy posting conversation,between myself and a poster,called ''PowerLord'' at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net ,in a thread called ''Possible Suspect'',in the ''Zodiac Killer and beyond'' section...if anyone is interested.

''PowerLord'' was a kid,in the late sixties,who attended The Church of Satan,in San Francisco,on account of his parents being Satan followers.During the course of the ''posting pages'',he opens up,quite a bit,about his experiences.

''PowerLord'' was a ''real'' Aryan child....a ''pretty boy'',with blonde hair and blue eyes.He had a brother and sister,who were allowed to use the bus,to come home from school...whereas ''PowerLord'' was forced to walk home.

The ''hope'' being,that ''PowerLord'' would be abducted by the Zodiac,and his parents would obtain the glory,of having made the sacrifice.

For that is how it was,at the time of the Zodiac's reign of terror.The Church of Satan,in SF,''thought'' that the Zodiac ''might'' be the coming of the ''Son of the Anti-Christ''....and that they,the Satanic Church,might be witnessing something that the Christian Churches,had yet to see [...their Son of Christ returning...].

We don't know whether the Zodiac knew this,or not....but if he had known this...perhaps he wouldn't have bothered to pester the newspapers,about some ''silly'' buttons [?].

Shawn

3/24/2019 07:06:04 pm

Thanks for the new FBI files update link.

I found a 7/14/1978 radio broadcast radio recording from Mae Brussell (A radio personality who had a radio conspiracy program)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73aCIfQBz-0

It is mildly interesting what she has to say about her interactions with Toschi and her thoughts on his forgeries from that time in 1978.

"Toschi was enjoying the publicity on the corpses of these poor people"

She also has a suspect named "Robert" who is on Toschi suspect list and had not been excluded at the time. Evidently she had talked to Toschi a few times.

Peter Storey.

5/19/2019 05:17:20 pm

Apropos of nothing: In the picture of Mr. Stines taxi the image of an observer second from the left engendered my curiosity. I wonder if you would know his identity? Please let me know your opinion. Thank you.

Your comment will be posted after it is approved.

THE ZODIAC & RIDDLER NOTES

Leave a Reply.

CATEGORIES