THE ZODIAC KILLER'S THIRD PHONE CALL

7/29/2015

My good friend Alex Lewis after some internet researching was able to secure the full and complete Harvey Hines report on his suspect Lawrence Kane, in addition to some useful information on the Zodiac case in general including the Presidio Heights murder of Paul Stine and some details that may have been withheld by the police. This is not subversive mind, often certain details of a crime are kept under wraps by investigative bodies in an attempt to identify a perpetrator, with only details known to them and the aforementioned. This was the case at Lake Berryessa when the wording 'by knife' was not released to the press, so if the real killer had contacted them, they could verify his authenticity. Alex has kindly sent me the full report, but for now has asked me not to release it into the public domain under instruction, so for the time being this will be the case, but in time this may change.

CLICK THE PHOTOGRAPH ABOVE TO ENLARGE

It has previously been highlighted that the Zodiac Killer was picked up by Paul Stine in the theater district of San Francisco on October 11th 1969, but more specifically outside the Westin St. Francis Hotel situated on Powell and Geary Streets on Union Square. Robert Graysmith, author of two Zodiac books and having access to official police reports stated "Here's the St. Francis," pointing to the hotel on Union Square. "That's where Stine was idling in his taxi."
The two twelve-story south wings of the hotel were built in 1904, and the double-width north wing was completed in 1913, initially as apartments for permanent guests. With its acquisition by Western Hotels, the hotel was changed from a home of elderly San Francisco socialites, some of whom lived in large suites in the hotel, to a modern hotel focusing on tourism and especially conventions. The old Mural Room, decorated by Albert Herter in 1913 with seven murals comprising The Pageant of Nations, a banquet and ballroom which had hosted many of America's famous big bands, was replaced in 1970 by a six hundred room tower, designed to help the St. Francis compete with The Fairmont, its rival on nearby Nob Hill. Architect William Pereira designed the new building which was completed in 1972. The murals were rolled up and removed to storage.The St. Francis became the hotel where Republican presidents stayed when in San Francisco, while Democratic presidents usually stayed at the Fairmont. President Gerald Ford was almost shot while leaving the hotel in September 1975 by a woman named Sara Jane Moore. A former Marine named Oliver Sipple moved her hand so that Ford was not hit. Taken fom Wikipedia.

Murdered on October 11th 1969.

It is clear that this was a luxury hotel and the Zodiac Killer requested his destination to be the Washington and Maple Street intersection in the affluent district of Presidio Heights, but whether we can connect the two on this basis is not clear. Had the Zodiac Killer just happened to be outside the St. Francis Hotel when he entered the taxicab or had he resided in or visited this hotel specifically. It is widely known the Zodiac Killer made two phone calls, the first was received by police dispatcher Nancy Slover after the murder of Darlene Ferrin and attempted murder of Michael Mageau at Blue Rock Springs Park on July 4th 1969, the killer said "I wish to report a double murder. If you will go one mile east on Columbus Parkway to a public park, you will find the kids in a brown car. They have been shot by a 9 mm Luger. I also killed those kids last year.... Good-bye." The second call was received by Officer Dave Slaight, who took the call after the double stabbing at Lake Berryessa on September 27th 1969 and heard the killer utter these words: "I want to report a murder, no, a double murder. They are two miles north of Park Headquarters. They were in a white Volkswagen Karmann Ghia" and after a brief pause uttered the words "I'm the one that did it." But there may have been a third phone call from the Zodiac Killer prior to the murder of Paul Stine. This is the phone call from which the Zodiac Killer ordered the taxicab, before its fateful journey.
It seemed strange that Paul Stine upon approaching the San Francisco theater district and receiving a dispatch from the assistant traffic manager of the Yellow Cab Co, Leroy Sweet, to pick up a scheduled fare from 500 9th Avenue, he would then stop and pick up a random fare from the St. Francis Hotel. A random passenger flagging down a taxicab could in all probability have wanted to go anywhere, north, south, east or west, so stopping your taxicab on the off chance he just happened to want to go somewhere near to your scheduled destination of 500 9th Avenue, just over three miles away appears not the most likely scenario.

CLICK IMAGE ABOVE TO EXPAND

What is more likely though is that the Zodiac Killer was already in the rear of the taxicab when he received the dispatch from Leroy Sweet to go to 500 9th Avenue. knowing it was close to the Washington and Maple instruction he had already been given. The police report stated "Mr. Sweet further stated the last dispatch given the victim was at 9.45 pm to 500 9th Avenue. Victim allegedly never arrived at the above location as the dispatch was reassigned to another cab at 9.58 pm. Responding officers noted that the meter of the cab was running, indicating the victim possibly picked up another fare en route to his original assignment."
In other words Paul Stine had previously been given another scheduled pick up by dispatch from outside the St. Francis Hotel and aware of this Leroy Sweet was able to accommodate Paul Stine with an additional fare to 500 9th Avenue, as it was close by Washington and Maple. The second hypothesis is that Paul Stine was sent to 500 9th Avenue, but was then dispatched to the St. Francis Hotel as the caller had specified a destination of Washington and Maple and the Yellow Cab Company operator knew it was en route to Paul Stine's original fare.
But why would this detail be omitted from the Paul Stine report, not withstanding that the specificity of the St. Francis Hotel reference by Graysmith seems to point to known facts. Is it possible the detail of a phone call by the Zodiac Killer from a payphone somewhere in the region of the St. Francis Hotel was withheld, so the police could later verify the claims of any subsequent letter writer or other forms of contact from a potential murderer. The Hines report seems to suggest that indeed the Zodiac Killer did order a taxicab from a public payphone at Union Square near to the St. Francis Hotel on the night of October 11th 1969.

St. Francis Hotel, 335 Powell Street, San Francisco

Alex Lewis was able to get access to the whole report and here is an excerpt where Harvey Hines refers to the Paul Stine murder "In looking at an area map of San Francisco, I found 217 Eddy Street appeared to only be two to three blocks from where Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac on October 11, 1969. I then called Inspector Dave Toschi at the SFPD and got more details on the Stine Killing.
Toschi said that they had determined that the killer had called for a cab using the public payphone located at Union Square. Toschi said the cab then picked the killer up and drove to the corner of Washington and Cherry Streets."

This was the Zodiac Killer's third phone call.

A big thanks to Alex Lewis (Welsh Chappie) for his hard work on this topic. Other interesting details from the report can be found in comments here:
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-search-for-donna-lass#comments
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/black-male-adult#comments
Also pay a visit to Alex Lewis' site, providing a comprehensive analysis of Zodiac suspect Lawrence Kane.
https://welshchappie.wordpress.com/

168 Comments

Richard

7/29/2015 01:25:26 am

Have you found any information Alex on the payphone's location. It couldn't have been far from the St. Francis Hotel. You would suspect there had to be one right outside. Had there not been one very close to the hotel, the caller may as well have ordered a taxicab from the very position of the phone and gave an identifying address in Union Square. Surely if the payphone was a distance away you wouldn't name a pick up point any great distance from the payphone and walk there, which suggests a close proximity between the payphone and hotel. The Marines Memorial Theatre is just one of many theatres in the area, built in 1926, the 650-seat theater hosts music, dance & theatrical performances, speakers and films. The Marines Memorial Club in San Francisco, California at 609 Sutter Street (at Mason), is a private social club for United States Marines and other veterans of the United States Armed Forces. The nonprofit Marines Memorial Association owns the large building in the Union Square neighborhood of San Francisco that houses a hotel, theater, restaurant/bar, sports club, special event facilities, library, museum, memorial, and a military history bookstore. It is situated at 609 Sutter St and is only 4 minutes walking distance from Union Square.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/609+Sutter+Street,+San+Francisco,+CA,+United+States/Union+Square,+San+Francisco,+CA,+United+States/@37.788064,-122.40895,608m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x8085808e7afc4cfb:0xea36bb2b67a6aef7!2m2!1d-122.410458!2d37.788678!1m5!1m1!1s0x8085808ed3fd40bb:0xfe41d9b5994cb6ba!2m2!1d-122.4074374!2d37.7879938!3e2

There are many alternatives, but am exploring the military angle, from the perspective of this theatre, the military connection of the Presidio Julius Khan Park, from a standpoint of geographical knowledge and operating in places he was familiar with and the close vicinity of the St. Francis Hotel to this theatre. I may contact them for historical info.

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 06:58:12 am

"Have you found any information Alex on the payphone's location?"

Not yet Rich, Haven't had chance to look to be honest.

You get the three new suspects names I sent over to you? I'll scan the actual Document tomorrow that the DOJ sent me showing the releases. The mail came this morning addressed to 'MR WELSH CHAPPIE.' Made me chuckle when I saw it. I knew it was a successful FOIA just from the envelope, it was brown and slightly larger than A4 in size. If they write to you saying they have not found anything responsive to your request, it's done so in a standard sized white envelope.

Richard

8/1/2015 08:19:34 am

Aye Jim lad got em. cheers Alex.

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 06:29:02 am

Hey Rich, I've contacted the Westin Hotel not about the payphone, but for another reason asking for something specific which, when and if they reply, i'll telly you via email.

But in regards to which payphone the killer may have used in Union Square to call the Cab Co. then the answer may come from the wording used in the Hines Report.
Harvey makes the following statement, quote: "Toschi has said that they had determined that the killer had called for a cab using the public payphone located at Union Square."End Quote.

The above comment in its wording suggests Union Square had only one payphone rather than 'payphones.'
"killer had called for a cab using THE payphone" rather than, or opposed to "Killer had called for a cab using A payphone"

Robin Smith

9/7/2015 07:37:07 am

Alex...Sandy Betts in one of her responses to THE SEARCH FOR DONNA LASS states that Paul Stine was a cab driver for a very short time...

Do any of the reports happen to included how low Paul Stine was a cab driver??

TY
Robin

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 09:58:53 am

I haven't seen any reports that I can remember, off the top of my head at least, stating how long Paul had drove for Yello Cab Co.

If Sandy is saying it was a short time then that's probably is the case. Sadny in my personal experience has never told me something that turned out to not be accurate. I would think She may have got that info direct maybe from Paul's sister or some other way but I would again say if Sandy is saying it was only a short time, I would tend to think she Has her reason to say that and is likely correct.

Richard

9/7/2015 11:35:11 am

Yes Alex that is very likely, but I still for the life of me cannot think why Zodiac would risk being observed calling a taxicab and hanging around a likely busy Union Square waiting for it to arrive, risking being recognized, especially considering Leroy Sweet would later have told cops that Stine was rerouted here. Seems an odd choice for Zodiac to have ordered a taxicab from a particularly built up area, somewhere less conspicuous could have been chosen, no matter where you ultimately intended to go, UNLESS he was disguised to a certain extent and therefore simply didn't care. Also Alex since this Westin St Francis was never mentioned in the police report, do you think this was initially withheld by police, to verify any later communication from the killer ie: the location only being known by police and the murderer, but ultimately Robert Graysmith got access to it.

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 04:29:41 pm

True Rich, He could have picked a far less populated place from which to summon a ride yes, but are you overlooking who it is that is that we speak of?

You asked: Why hang around waiting for a cab risking being seen?

I don't know, but I could answer that question with another question......"Well why pick Lake Berryessa, i daylight, where on shore and boat finishing was popular. Any boat could have sailed into view as He stood out there looking like a complete lunatic pointing a gun at two kids bound on the floor. Did this concern or stop him? No.

Also Rich if your going down the route of risk in the location he picked from which to make his Call then I can also ask the counter question, well, why after Blue Rock does He pick A Payphone to call from and brag that is within visual distance of the Sherff's Office, same with Lake B.

It's fairly obvious Rich that here is a man who rather than trying to avoid high risk and crimes to pull off where the odds are stacked against, He relishes this and the risk and the sheer unlikelyhood for Him to be able to pull off such a crime without being seen at point A Hanging around a busy Public commuting Hotel or faffing about trying to clean Paul's dash, then rummaging through his pockets for his wallet and helping himself to some of Pauls shirt, then getting out and being unhappy at the utter non cleanliness of the doors both sides He simply had to clean them with a white cloth as if He's ignorant to the fact the cab's driver is slumped puoring blood from his head and any number of people could drive up or come along the sidewalk. He does not care Rich to a extent that I think His declaration of "I am Crack-Proof" may be more in meaning than many read it as. He may literally be saying that due to who He is, capture and punishment, not going to happen as He is someone that lets say, would cause such embarassment and disgrace to an agency if His identity were known that He knows they would not even wish to think of doing this and what the reaction would be.
He in his actions at the cab portrays a man who isn't interested nor cares of who may pull up any second, nor is He in any rush when leaving and takes his time walking down Cherry then Jax.

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 04:51:49 pm

See Rich if you or I were the gun concealing passenger's who decided we did not want to have to pay for the journey with cash but preferred the idea of paying with a lead projectile then for us, the instinctive bodily reaction and fear of capture based what we had just done would be next to impossible to counteract. I'd have been seen on Cherry Street by witnesses who would say they believed from my sheer speed and unwillingness to slow or stop for any obsticale that my bursting across the intersection at Cherry and Jackson continuing on through the Cherry wall entrance and into Presidio was, witnesses believed, simply down to an inhability to turn right at the Intersection due to the speed I was going and the effects of Gravity and the effects of Inertia not allowing it.

This kind of impulsive instinct is so difficult to overcome and/or control when the brain issues the order for the body to panic that either the guy was not competent to understand the serious nature of what he'd just done....(which is not accurate to suggest because He knew exactly what He'd done, the seriousness of it, and the lawful consequences of doing what He'd done and yet He is undetered, seemingly oblvious to his immediate surroundings....Either that or He was very aware and conscious of what was happening around him but, due to Fact unknown, He simply did not care.

I mean if you knew Rich that despite you having just committed an act of cold blooded murder in an execution like dispatching of a cab driver that even if you were seen and observed, you'd never be stopped and suspected let alone ever arrested because they wold recognize who you are and this is the meaning of 'I am Crack-Proof'

Alex Lewis link

9/12/2015 05:52:05 am

Hey Rich, I contacted the St. Francis to enquire whether they have previous guest lists from the late 60's. I knew it was a long shot and it appears they don't. Here's what the St Francis replied....

"Thank you for your inquiry. Here is some information from that time:

· Excavation began on our Tower Building expansion

· Ronald Reagan (California Governor at the time) stayed with us

· Actor Vincent Price and his wife were frequent guests

· Arnold Batliner, Coin Washer, maintained the tradition of Coin Washing for 35 years until retiring in 1993

We do not keep any other records of previous guests."

Now I know they will and do reply, I am going to email them asking about any payphones they had or they may know of that existed in Union Square back at that time.

Alex Lewis link

9/12/2015 06:06:42 am

Ok, here's what I just sent to the St Francis asking:

"Hi there, and thank you for your reply. If I may just trouble you for one more question: I recently read in an official report that there was a public payphone loctaed at Union Square. The wording of this report suggests that that there was only one because the report in question states that the person had, quote "Used the public payphone located at Union Square."

Would you know if your establishment had a payphone in the lobby back in 1969? If not, would you know where this payphone was in relation to your Hotel?

Again, I appreciate you taking time to read and respond to my final enquiry."

Let you know what they say in reply.

Alex Lewis

9/15/2015 04:22:04 pm

Well I don't know why this Hotel has an appointed marketing and research Dpt. and Employee.

It seems they do not keep lists/records of guests from days gone by and now I am told that they have no idea if the lobby had a payphone in 1969 or not and I may wish to check with the San Fran Historical Society.

How can they not know if there was a payphone available in or near the lobby? I mean it's not 1769 I am asking as a date in question with all people from that time dead and records long gone or not kept, this is within living human memory and yet, they do not know.

I'm not going to try and get in contact with Toschi to enquire who the bumbling dispatcher was on Oct 11 to save myself being told "Oh we don't have information like that still available Alex, goodness me I don't know, the Dpt doesn't know, His fellow colleagues don't know."

I'd have to ask "I see David.....Another Secret Pal to add to an already growing list of withheld facts,data, and above all, Names. Which reminds me Tosh, who is Suspect Redact....The Guy that was positively ID'd by a witness as the man that witness had seen kill Paul in and then out and around the cab before walking off, does anyone know this mans name by any miracle? Dave?? David come back here, stop pretending you cannot hear me. You and your Dpt lied and are covering something up Dave, and this is not a Conspiracy 'Theory' it's Conspiracy Fact!

Why won't they release that persons name who FBI report states was positively ID'd as Zodiac by a witness? Is it because you and your higher up's know the name and know it really does belong to The Zodiac? Do Patrol Officers regularly lie, change their stories, outright confess to having lied i their original memo, contradict each other on what happened that night, where it happened, who they may or may not have encountered out there on the street? It stinks Dave, the whole thing!

Welcome to The cold case Amateur Investigation Area, a place where it seems mandatory to get refused info, ignored when asking for it, lied to about its very existence at least three times before you may be successful in getting it.

Alex Lewis

9/17/2015 04:12:35 am

Ok just a quick update. . .

This morning I have received another email in relation to the Public payphone/s in Union Square and Specifically, The St. Francis Hotel.

The email was from Tom Carey, The Librarian at the San Francisco History Center at San Francisco's Public Library. The email content is as follows:

"Dear Alex,

Your e-mail question about pay phones in Union Square has been forwarded to me.

I tried my contact at the Hotel, but she informs me that they have no information about a pay phone in the lobby. 1969 may be too far back for any current employee of the Hotel to have a memory.

I would suggest you search our own San Francisco Historical Photograph Collection. There are upwards of 40,000 prints available in that, and you should search both “Union Square” and “Hotel St. Francis” (combining that phrase, in quotation marks, with keyword ‘interior’) to look for pay phones. See: http://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=0200000301

If you have more information, or other questions, let me know.

It seems my criticism of the Hotel's research and marketing employee and/or the Dpt. thereof, was misplaced and inaccurate as, unknown to myself at the time, she herself was unable to help me in answering the question of possible payphone in the Lobby back in 69, she had gone to the extra effort to forward my question to a 3rd party who she believed may be able to help.
So, if any people associated with the Hotel and this employee read this, then please accept my apology for my misjudgment and resulting critical comments.

So, that having been said, the link is above in the quoted email from Tom where there are, as He states, some Forty Thousand or more photographs of Union Square in His Dpt's Historical Online Collection. Haven't gone to have a look myself yet, haven't got time this morning as have a few things to do but if anyone else has chance to have a browse through and find anything of potential interest, then there are plenty of comment spaces available under this one..... TTFN.

John

1/18/2016 03:01:00 am

Sandy Betts stories speak for themselves for those who have the ability to read and scrutinize without following blindly.

Ray Jenkins

12/6/2017 06:08:36 pm

I was actually left wondering if the Zodiac might have been Burt Reynolds. LOL!

Robin Smith

9/17/2015 12:39:41 pm

Alex,

I'm not going to check this but I seem to recall that on one of the newspaper articles about LARRY KAYE and the jewelry heist of the heiress Shirley Carmel, Carmel mentions meeting KAYES' MOTHER at UNION STATION.

Trains could be a common denominator here.

Robin Smith

9/17/2015 03:34:23 pm

Those comments about 'KAYES' activities and Hotel Heiress Shirley Carmel are on THE KANE CIPHER

Alex Lewis link

9/21/2015 07:41:17 pm

..... "Alex,

I'm not going to check this but I seem to recall that on one of the newspaper articles about LARRY KAYE and the jewelry heist of the heiress Shirley Carmel, Carmel mentions meeting KAYES' MOTHER at UNION STATION."

Hmm, dunno.

The only article that mentions Kaye and a Hotel is the one where Kaye shoves a uniformed Officer after an altercation with the cop and Kaye mouth the very Arrogant question: "Who are you?" Then He gets arrested for assaulting police officer and resisting arrest. Kaye pleads Not Guilty to all charges followed be 'demanding' A Jury Trial. Gets his request granted, found not guilty on all counts, files his own lawsuit against cop in question for police brutality and the Civil case is ruled in Kaye's favour with Cop requested to give account of & justify his actions that day.

Robin Smith

9/22/2015 12:37:58 am

Alex...That comment was made by Shirley Carmel, the hotel heiress, about meeting KAYES MOTHER in PENN STATION on her way to Florida.

The reason I speculate about the trains is that in the 'day' trains were the way to go. The old movies were all filmed on trains! lol and according to all the KAYE snippets he was moving in those high up entertainment circles back then.

Trains were easy, fast and most train stations had pay phones.

Welsh Chappie

7/14/2018 08:26:03 pm

Rich, Quite a while ago you asked . . .

"Have you found any information Alex on the payphone's location. It couldn't have been far from the St. Francis Hotel. You would suspect there had to be one right outside."

I was talking to Sandy the other day & She confirmed the factual accuracy of the last sentence you make above Rich.

I am trying to remember, but failing, the Name of a Movie from back around that correct time-frame that Sandy sates if You watch this specific movie and specific scene shot out front of the Westin St. Francis, visible in that shot is a public payphone/booth.

PS: Sandy. . . If reading this hun, do drop the name of that movie in a comment below would You please as I Myself, being a wonderful example of defunct and Lacking Short Term Mem... . What was I saying? Forgot what I was about to say again! . :-)

Richard

7/14/2018 10:42:51 pm

Hi Alex, that would be useful to know where the location of the payphone was for certain, but I'm sure there were several public payphones in a busy area like Union Square in 1969, not withstanding that the lobby of the Westin St Francis likely had some.

Alex Lewis

7/16/2018 06:52:26 am

Well you would think there would be several of them, I agree. It just throws me a bit the way Harvey words it as 'The' instead of ''A' public payphone in Union Square. I'm sure you'd agree that to say it that way is suggestive of there only being one, 'The' payphone down in the Square.

Richard

7/29/2015 01:33:32 am

Named after its first owner, theatrical producer Homer Curran, this San Francisco landmark hosts big touring shows as well as prestigious pre-Broadway engagements. The Phantom of the Opera played here for five years (its longest run outside of New York) and the theatre was recently home to pre-Broadway try-outs for Beautiful.
445 Geary Street, San Francisco, CA 94102
Year opened: 1922
Capacity: 1667

- See more at: http://www.san-francisco-theater.com/theaters/curran-theater/theater.php#sthash.TL9GkOK6.dpuf

Richard

7/29/2015 01:55:02 am

1969 Union Square Postcard
http://www.tias.com/union-square-san-francisco-1969-postcard-29576.html

Richard

7/29/2015 02:56:55 am

Here is a July 23rd 1969 video of Union Square San Francisco just 2 and half months prior to the murder of Paul Stine about the Apollo 11 splashdown. Nice shots of a few cabs, looking for a payphone.
https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/186008

Greg

7/29/2015 04:43:55 am

^ 10 seconds into the above video there's a billboard high above the building which reads "Tahoe".. The Zodiac himself can be seen at 2:27...

Richard

7/29/2015 04:51:29 am

Nice one Greg, he does look a bit shifty.

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 05:27:35 am

I see no evidence of a widows peak. Hehe

Richard

7/29/2015 07:08:28 am

The History of The Westin St. Francis;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX6pjfibPsQ

Alex Lewis link

8/10/2015 01:53:05 am

Was thinking earlier today Rich about Leroy Sweet and whether He would have asked Z not only where He was wanting to go from and to, but I assume that yellow cab required parties names in advance so that when the driver of the taxi I have rang for pulls up outside a busy St Francis Hotel I can walk up and say "Lewis, Wash & Mple St?" and the driver would know that I am the correct passenger who He is there to pick up.

I wonder if He asked, and Z then gave him A Name? A say 'A' Name opposed to 'His' Name because it it's not likely, in fact next to no chance, that the caller gave his actual name.

But Leroy giving this job to Paul makes sense on many levels even if Paul's already received his instructions to the 500 9th pick up because not only would Leroy be aware that this caller wanted to go from A to B and Paul was going to be passing A and B on his way to the 500 9th pick up but Leroy knew, because He told cops who recorded it, that Paul had been on for about an hour or so and had, up to this point, had one single customer only. Leroy may have thought give Paul back to back jobs as He has only had one pick up in over an hour.

Richard

8/10/2015 03:09:24 am

Well Alex I don't know about protocol in San Francisco, but in Coventry you are always asked for a pick up point, destination and your name, but like you said he would have to been insane to give his name, so probably he did, well maybe not. But he could easily have been slotted with this hotel pick up after the being instructed to 500 and 9th as it not off the beaten track or before. Like I said above Graysmith referred to Union Square in his account and didn't pluck this out of thin air, so my guess is he had access to police documents that said as much. But if this info is in archived documents somewhere, why wasn't this released along with the Pier 64 and 500 9th reference unless it held greater significance. I smell a rat again and the whole Presidio Heights affair raises more questions than the other three crimes put together. The question we ask is why. A two page police report with countless photographs - is this appeasement at work. Begin the conspiracy...........

Alex Lewis

8/10/2015 03:47:38 am

Well I said there is next to no chance He'd give his actual Name but, then again, this is Zodiac, the man who is super arrogant and confident that He has declared himself Crack-proof, that cops shall never catch him because He's been too clever etc. When you think about his sheer arrogance in his comments made, and actions udertaken such as hanging around the cab till A.P is a minute or so away, or standing out on a small Island at a favorite public picnic area of Berryessa dress like a nut case then the idea He might have given his own name (Christian name at least) isn't all that of a stretch.

As for conspiracies Rich. we are programmed (for want of a better term) to believe that conspiracies or those who believe in such theories are mentally unbalanced, or just idiots. George W said himself "Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories." Well it's a shame this is the case really because we have the word Conspiracy in the English Language because there are those who conspire. In this very instance, both myself and you could point to 10, 15 or 20 points of interest and/or inconsistent regarding PH event and show absolute solid grounds to suspect and believe that their may likely be a deliberate conspiracy to conceal the truth of exactly what happened that night and yet, people would label you a 'Conspiracy Nut' as if the idea that cops may cover something up to avoid complete embarrassment is far fetched.
Continued in 2nd post below....

Alex Lewis

8/10/2015 03:57:00 am

I'm absolutely convinced that they, and by they I mean a faction of higher up 's at SFPD, are aware of something that they don't want to become public knowledge.

And you asked: "But if this info is in archived documents somewhere, why wasn't this released along with the Pier 64 and 500 9th reference unless it held greater significance."

Asked myself the same thing about 2 days ago Rich....Great mind's an all that! But serious, I was wondering, if the police are simply just keeping certain details back from the public for authenticating a suspect purpose then surely it wouldn't be the suspect calling the Yellow Cab from a public phone because the reason why is in the word 'Public.' Surely if they discover offender rings the Cab Co. from Payphone A, you'd want this info out there so that potential witnesses would come forward after hearing the killer rang the cab company from lobby payphone of the St Francis at around 9:30pm on Oct 11. It could and likely would jog the witnesses memory "Ohh I remember seeing a guy with glasses and crew cut in the lobby that night and He was using the phone at around half 9."

Tom link

7/29/2015 11:20:55 am

The pay phone claim of Harvey Hines is nothing new. There is no validity to it for several reasons, including the fact that tracing a call was not quick or easy and was only done for good reason. By the way, I love the hypocrisy of blasting me for allegedly not sharing info (the entire Kane report, which I do not have) even though at least two people at this site have it yet are keeping it secret. Kudos.

Richard

7/29/2015 03:51:44 pm

The person who shared the document has not yet given explicit permission to share the document with the entire internet and I have been instructed not to either at this particular juncture. When I receive an email in confidence of this nature I respect it, until told otherwise, it certainly has nothing to do wanting to keep it secret. I know Alex and myself would release it immediately if we had a green light and will certainly do this if and when it happens. When somebody contacts your site and asks for information to be received in confidence, you certainly don't abuse that trust, otherwise they stop contacting you. I am sure that is reasonable. Alex and I have always shared info, as he did with the FOIA documents he acquired on Kane and in this instance it will be no different Tom, when explicit permissions are given. It is certainly not about secrecy or being covert. As for the phone call, this is what it states in the document and I have no reason to question Harvey Hines transparency anymore than other Zodiac informants, although Hines was a dedicated police officer who carries more weight than most. Also nobody mentioned the call was traced, the caller may simply have said "I'm at a payphone just outside/by/ down from the St. Francis Hotel", sounds like the BRS argument. I guess you pick and choose who's claims to believe based on a pet suspect, in this case Harvey Hines, whereas I have no bias, I have no allegiance to any suspect and therefore remain impartial and have just presented the quote on the payphone for discussion as read in full from the document, with no hidden agenda.

Tom link

7/29/2015 03:59:12 pm

"Welsh Chappie" accused me of hoarding Kane/Hines materials. Sorry, but it's true. And now he is doing what he accused me of. That is called being a hypocrite. As for the alleged call, it originated with Harvey Hines. He is the only source. And he has lied repeatedly, as well as bilked money from Pam Huckaby for alleged DNA testing that actually went to having his teeth fixed. So I will ask again...how did he place Kane where he allegedly did on Oct. 11, 1969?

Richard

7/29/2015 04:31:16 pm

I'll let Welsh Chappie answer the Kane thing in due course, as the article itself doesn't suggest a Kane link, but as regards the "As for the alleged call, it originated with Harvey Hines. He is the only source".
Robert Graysmith has made a few howlers and exorbitant claims down the years, yet progressed the case forward no end and along with your site I respect that, but one would have to assume that he just plucked the St. Francis Hotel connection out of thin air for now good reason. In other words he got the information from somewhere. This document and alleged wording from Toschi corroborates the St Francis link in as much as it mentions Union Square and given what I have read about a random passenger flagging down a taxicab just doesn't stack up based on the rather less than comprehensive Stine report. I know for certain Graysmith had access to far greater material than most and have little reason to question the St Francis link in Union Square and the taxicab meter reading corroborates the distance between this location and Washington and Cherry, albeit taken at 10.46 apparently. I do not chuck the baby out with the bathwater, simply because certain claims are called into question. Tracing a call was not quick and easy back in 1969, as the Eric Weil phone call showed, but they certainly found the payphone at Springs and Tuolumne, despite having no prior warning that a killer was about to call in. I will let Welsh respond to the Kane connection, he is more versed in this than me.

Robin Smith

7/30/2015 01:39:52 am

Tom,

Why would you want any info from HINES as you call him publically a liar and thief?

Alex Lewis

7/14/2018 08:59:21 pm

Thank You Richard, don't think I could have said it much better. I can & I will elaborate on Richards statement and to one or two specific points. As Rich said, He was asked By Myself not to give this report out to anyone & the reason I asked Him not to share when I first got this report is because that is what Oliver Hines, Harveys Brother,has asked when being kind enough to give me the full report.

You want to know Tom specifically Why Oliver and Destry don't want it circulated Tom? YOU! You are the reason Tom Destry and Oliver gave me personally as why it is they don't want it given out en mass!

Destry has seen enough of your horrible, negative insulting of His Deceased Father who isn't able to defend His own name and honor. Most of us agree that it's not even conceivable to speak ill of the dead even when it may be justifiable to do so. You, Tom,are a level above everyone else in the exampmples of absolute deplorable Example of a Human Being, or so called!

The truth is simply this Tom, had you not been such an absolute horrible and insulting prick to Destrty when He came to your site several Years ago then, Tom, I happen to know as Destry himself told Me, you'd have secured the 120 long ago before I ever did.

I know this Thomas cause Destry came to you Tom to share certain documents. Your own self driven desire & clear need to rage against a ll that is not Gaikopwski Tom is why you were not given it years ago

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 05:37:46 am

Tom, I blast you for good reason. If I gave you Harvey's full report you'd do nothing other than try and discredit it to the best of your ability. You'd approach it with a pre-conceived idea that you don't believe it to be credible. As for Hines claim if the phone call, I seriously doubt that HH would add that Toschi told him this if He had not because it's very easy to double check with Toschi. You see Tom, you don't even see your own contradictions, in one breath you hint that you would like the HH full report and claim there is hypocrisy here then in the next breath you state that there is no validity to the claim of Zodiac making a phone call which just confirms my earlier comment that all you will do with the report is try to rip it apart and trash HH character and credibility and you know what Tom, HH still has relatives!

Do you know that these relatives have read what you have called Harvey, a 'Shady Character' among other things? Do you know, and ever care, that this hurts them? (Take it from me personally, I am in contact with Harvey's Son and Brother.) Instead of thinking of yourself Tom, put yourself in their position. How would you like it if your Father passed away and certain people on the internet had gone out of their way to say the most hurtful and horrible things about your late Father?

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 05:45:27 am

And if there is hypocrisy here Tom, then what are you doing here? I don't come to your site because anyone who doesn't ascribe to your theory that Gaik is Zodiac is ignored. Today, as it happens, I received a response from my latest FOIA request and have three additional suspect names released from a Zodiac Memo. I would love to share them with you Tom, if you were not so arrogant and dismissive of anyone who doesn't agree with you.
As for the Hines report, nobody is keeping it secret Tom, it's at the request of Harvey's Brother that I am very selective as to whom I share it with and it's because of people like you who make remarks about Harvey that I have been asked to be very selective!

Tom link

8/2/2015 04:46:41 am

Hines was a liar and a fraud and you are a hypocrite.

It's funny how you Hines supporters do everything you can to keep his full report away from those who can read through b.s. and actually ask the tough questions, as well as spot garbage research and bogus claims. Oh well, I will eventually snag the full report and you and the others will be further exposed as morons.

Zodiac

7/14/2018 12:08:52 am

That's a lie tom. On your forum, you claim to have seen, or have all kinds of stuff the 'public' hasn't seen. Which is a lie. Because That's actually illegal. Nobody's allowed information that was unreleased but the policel, and if they let you see it. They broke the law. Which would make sense why Gaikowski got away with being the Zodiac. The police, compared to him..were utterly incompetant and he knew it. Don't lie about things tom, somebody exposed your ass on pastebin a while ago. You're finished.

Tom link

7/29/2015 11:25:38 am

Since you have access to the full report, exactly how did Hines -- in the mid 1970s -- find the San Francisco hotel Kane was allegedly staying at on Oct. 11, 1969? Because I call b.s.

Robin Smith

7/30/2015 02:21:35 am

Slander and libel are both types of defamation which refers to statements that damage aN0ther person's reputation.

Where there are similarities, each focuses on different types of defamation strategy. The primary difference between slander and libel is that libel is the written or otherwise printed public defamation of a person or entity.

Richard

7/30/2015 03:09:29 am

In this instance it doesn't apply Robin.

Tom link

7/30/2015 06:00:41 am

Hines is a liar for lying and a fraud for bilking money from the sister of a victim. Quote me.

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 05:48:58 am

You can call what you want Thomas, you think anything is b.s that doesn't fit your own theory and/or agenda. It doesn't matter, Tom, how HH found the SF Hotel because you've already decided before you gave me chance to answer the question that it is b.s, so it's counter intuitive of you to even bother asking.

Robin Smith

7/29/2015 11:55:41 am

:) It just keeps getting better!!!

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 05:57:25 am

Ignore him Robin, He's a total idiot. He bashes HH as a source and promotes Blane as totally credible despite Ken Narlow and other Law Officials dismissing Blane many moons ago as, quote: A Kook, prone to story telling who has given several different version of how and why Giak is Zodiac. Let Thomas promote the man that Law Officials will tell you is a complete kook with no credibility. This is why, you see, Tom sets about trying to discredit former police officers like HH, because his own suspect's source is a total non credible idiot who LE dismissed long ago.

Bob Loomis also has physical evidence that Gaik was Albany, NY back in late 68 when the LHR murders happened in the form of letters sent to himself by Richard postmarked from the aforementioned State. Thomas ignores this and even once tried to tell me, which He will will attempt to deny I don't doubt, that Loomis has recanted everything He said on the episode of SF slaughter. Thomas mentioned the words Bull Shit, and this phrase is absolutely perfect to describe his claims of Loomis recanting. I ain't responding no more. TTFN Thomas.

Tom link

8/2/2015 04:52:31 am

"Bob Loomis also has physical evidence that Gaik was Albany, NY back in late 68 when the LHR murders happened in the form of letters sent to himself by Richard postmarked from the aforementioned State."

http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/3303/LETTERS-TO-BOB-L

You and Harvey are a lot alike.

Alex Lewis

8/2/2015 05:44:19 am

Tom, the day i find myself being told by a cop the words: "I'm arresting you for stalking a young land. You have the right to remain silent...." then Thomas, I'll start worrying. You are so up your own ass and are nothing more than a convicted stalker. Why don't you mimic your idol now and write to duffy Jennings: "The Police shall always catch me becase I am too f****ng stupid for them." Me-Under arrest, SFPD labled me weird and a freak.

Alex Lewis

8/2/2015 05:45:46 am

Young Lady*** I do apologize, I was laughing so much I must have typed incorrectly.

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 06:36:02 am

Let's put it like this Robin. HH has gone on camera to declare his belief that Kane is and was The Zodiac. HH has done so using his own real Name, and has not requested his face be hidden from view. HH did not use an alias either, like 'GoldCatcher.' You see, that tells you all you need to know about the certainty and conviction of a person promoting a suspect.

Harvey had a real conviction, He believed it what He said and did so staking His own reputation and using his own name and putting his face on camera. Blane, on the other hand, went on TV and would not have his face shown nor real name revealed, instead going by the alias 'GoldCatcher.' That tells me how truly confident Blane is about the claims He is making, which is consistent with Narlow describing him as nothing more than a kook who likes to tell stories. Narlow said they began to look into Blane's claims because they seemed genuine at first, then they quickly learned that Gaik had an alibi for at least one of the Zodiac murders (probably as Loomis stated, He wasn't in California) and also stated they discovered that Blane, once He knew LE had refuted one claim made by him, quickly came up with a second, alternate story. Hence, He was quickly dismissed as a Kook.

Tom link

8/2/2015 05:50:23 am

I thought you just recently promised twice to quit posting here? More lies. You and Harvey must be related.

Alex Lewis

8/2/2015 06:18:13 am

Well I can't help it Thomas, I take offence at someone stalking me, in the cyber or physical realm the same just like that other girls took exception to you climing into the foliage in her dark secluded back yard.

"MAN IN THE HEDGE, THIS IS THE POLICE, STEP OUT OF YOUR BUSH WITH YOUR HANDS ON TOP OF YOUR HEAD. WALK BACKWARD TOWARD MY VOICE....WHICH IS BREAKING WITH AN INABILITY TO CONCEAL MY DESIRE TO PISS MYSELF LAUGHING.
Case No. 18263, people vs Thomas Voyer.

Tom link

7/30/2015 05:00:36 am

"Why would you want any info from HINES as you call him publically a liar and thief?"

Too many people are willing to accept the word of investigators. That's not good enough for me. I want actual proof, as I have been lied to repeatedly by many people over the last 20 years. So, to those with access to the full report, how did Hines -- in the mid 1970s -- miraculously locate the cheap San Francisco motel where Kane was allegedly staying years earlier?

Robin Smith

7/30/2015 06:57:07 am

Let's see mid 70's 1973-1976...it was miraculously? found out!...bartenders, cocktail waitresses , dealers door men and so on knew and reported everything to someone:) cab drivers were the "cell phones".

I do N0t kN0w how old you are Tom, I was at least 21 in 1970 as I was working here in Tahoe at that time...

P.S. I am N0t and never have been a liar, a thief, or a whore. You can quote me.

Tom link

7/30/2015 07:01:41 am

So some random person noticed and memorized where some guy (Kane) happened to be staying in SF, and remembered it long enough to tell Harvey Hines years later? Really? That is beyond ridiculous.

You are ignorant when it comes to Harvey Hines. I had personal dealings with him. Did you? I caught him lying. Did you? I caught him bilking money from Pam Huckaby. Did you? Did Harvey Hines ever call you on the phone and threaten to kill you? Because he did to me.

Robin Smith

8/8/2015 12:17:02 am

Tom Voight

VILE 1. a: morally despicable or abhorrent <N0thing is so vile as intellectual dishonesty>.

Robin Smith

8/8/2015 11:45:44 pm

Tom Voight

That would be "Kookie" to you...ah yes the 60's!! "Kookie Kookie Lend Me Your Comb"

77 Sunset Strip, Ed Byrnes with Connie Stevens and Efrem Zimbalist JR. I met them all in the "day" at HARRAH's LAKE TAHOE:)

We're back to you Tom Voight...you were where in the 60's?

Robin Smith

8/8/2015 12:09:15 am

Tom Voight

There is a preponderance of evidence against Larry Kane, up to and including eyewitness testimonies.

Proof??? You want a picture ??? You are a vile human being.

Tom link

8/8/2015 04:27:08 am

Richard, since when is name calling allowed? Because I kN0w Robin is a kook, I just hadn't stated it yet.

Robin Smith

7/30/2015 08:34:51 am

In the "day", of which you seem to be ignorant, you've seen the movies, players like Kane made it their business to kN0w a "guy" that knew a guy and so on.

1965-1975 was an era of it's own.

Tom link

7/30/2015 08:43:50 am

It was an era of its own. Neat.

LOL @ Kane being a player.

I'll wait for an answer from Harvey's report, although at least three Kane buffs with access to the report have refused to answer my simple question. I am pretty sure I know why.

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 06:14:51 am

TOM! Get it into your head, your not having any information from Harvey's report, end of story! You think i'm going to give you any details from it so that you can set about slandering Harvey all over the place again? Harvey's Son and Brother are very nice people, Harvey's brother himself is a former Police Officer, and if you think for one moment I am going to give you anything from Harvey's report so you can set about making your idiotic comments to hurt his Son you have another thing coming. >>There's the door Tom, your not wanted here so kindly piss off, and when you've pissed off and got there.....Piss off a bit more!

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 05:01:09 am

Tom...You kN0w where I was circa 1970...quid pro quo...you were where at that time?

Tom link

8/2/2015 06:57:49 am

I don't know you or where you were. But if you are so knowledgable, please answer this question without making assumptions: Exactly how did Harvey Hines place Larry Kane in that particular San Francisco motel in October 1969? Thanks in advance.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 07:10:02 am

Tom,

In 1968 I was a cocktail waitress at Barney's CasiN0, till the boss Richard L Chartrand was blown to bits in his Cadillac. In 1969 I was dealing Blackjack at the Sahara Tahoe and in 1970 I was dealing Blackjack across the street at Harrah's.

Long stories each, however, I think Harvey Hines came on the Tahoe scene 1973, I am just wondering when you came on the scene BEFORE I open my mouth I like to kN0w who I am talking to.

If you are one of these "youngsters" that is going to proceed to tell me what was going on literally next to me I guess the discusson is over.

Tom link

8/2/2015 07:29:52 am

Where either of us were is irrelevant. I am simply trying to learn how Harvey Hines was able to place Larry Kane in that particular motel in San Francisco at that particular time. Unfortunately, those who can answer the question are afraid to.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 07:45:11 am

Tom...Simple these answers N0t and for you to say to me...who was there and dealing...lol...with these characters.. that it is irrelevant is incomprehensible.

Tom link

8/2/2015 07:49:06 am

I have no idea what your post is supposed to mean, but it really doesn't matter since you can't answer my question.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 08:07:29 am

Tom Tom Tom...you are missing the point totally:(

If you were N0t there then everything you present is second hand.

Tom link

8/2/2015 08:48:25 am

Robin I am trying to get a question answered. Believe it or not, everything doesn't have to involve you and your life experiences and work history.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 09:03:38 am

Nothing "revolves" around me or my work history. However, the Larry Kane/Donna Lass situation does revolve around the SAHARA LAKE TAHOE.

Some people were there, some were N0t.

I prefer to deal...ha that word again!..with people that were there. That's all

Tom link

8/2/2015 09:18:49 am

Too bad there's zero evidence Kane was in the area at the time of Donna's disappearance. I have a copy of the detailed report prepared by the private investigator hired by Donna's family shortly after her disappearance. The investigator interviewed her friends and co-workers at the casino. No Kane, no stories about some weird guy bothering her, etc. So keep living in a fantasy world. Also, none of that has to do with placing Kane in San Francisco, since you apparently haven't noticed. And that is my question, how was Kane placed there? But I already know you can't answer that, so we don't need to keep communicating.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 09:30:52 am

Tom

Sandy Betts went to a reunion at the Sahara...organized by the Mayor of South Lake Tahoe and reported on your site that she met the Mayor and questioned him about Larry Kane being at the Sahara at the time Donna went missing. The Mayor was working at the Sahara at the time Donna went missing.

The Mayor of South Lake Tahoe told her, Sandy Betts, that YES Kane was working there at the time.

I posted the dates N0w in light of this either and or both THE MAYOR and Sandy Betts are LIARS??

Tom link

8/2/2015 09:40:40 am

LOL @ the mayor being an expert on such matters. He probably got the type of misinformation that "Welsh_Chappiue" keeps spreading about Kane and Gaikowski. The Internet is full of trolls who spread lies. I am trying to get one answer and just look at how difficult it is. Kane was not at the Sahara when Lass was there. If he was, especially if he had been bothering Donna as the story goes, Kane would be listed in the report made by the private detective. But he is not listed, because he was not there at the time Donna was. And that is a simple fact, regardless what some mayor thinks.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 09:47:09 am

I have a copy of the P I report made by Donna's sister.

You are waay off base Tom.

Tom link

8/2/2015 09:53:55 am

"I have a copy of the P I report made by Donna's sister. You are waay off base Tom."

Yes or no: Is Kane mentioned anywhere in the report?

I mean, Harvey claims that Kane was working right around the corner from her nurses station in the casino, and he used to bother her all the time and she was scared of him.

So is Kane mentioned in the report?

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 10:05:14 am

There is a whole lot N0t in that report.

Harvey was correct

Tom link

8/2/2015 10:09:21 am

"There is a whole lot N0t in that report. Harvey was correct"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 10:17:27 am

That is exactly what they said about Bill Cosby Tom.

There is an old saying out here in the West...he who laughs last:)

Alex Lewis

8/10/2015 02:10:07 am

Thomas my ego is going to allow me to furnish you with the answer you to the question you have repeatedly asked in the hope (Misplaced as it may be) that you will stop repeating yourself like a trained fairground attraction.
Right, you want to know how HH came to discover Kane was at 217 Eddy? The answer is simple. John Miles of Delta Pontiac. Kane tried to lease a vehicle from Delta Pontiac and was refused and upon his being refused He asked his Mother, Sarah, to co-sign the lease agreement for him and John Miles, already knowing Kane's mother Sarah, agreed and leased them the vehicle and listed their address as 217 Eddy, where Sarah and Lawrence were both living.

Now please feel free to come up with whatever bull shit your little heart desires to discredit this as accurate whether it be "John Miles is a car dealer, cannot believe anything these liars say" or "Delta Pontiac never existed nor did Mr Miles" or some other absolutely absurd dismissal. These are what we call facts Thomas, do with them what you may!

Tom Voigt link

8/10/2015 12:05:20 pm

Wow, someone finally answered my easy question. Only took how long?

Now, in the full report does Hines show a copy of the application, showing the date etc? Or do we have to take his word for it, again?

Alex Lewis

8/10/2015 05:21:16 pm

Doubting Thomas.....
"Now, in the full report does Hines show a copy of the application, showing the date etc? Or do we have to take his word for it, again?"

Well I accept his word yes, but because we are not speaking of one Richard Gaikowski here you will treat everyone and everything as Lies, misrepresentations, errors, no basis claims etc etc and etc.
So, to answer your question as whether HH secured the original lease Application....No.

He does, however, state that He ran a California Vehicle Registration check on all vehicles owned by the suspect. It shows Him as the current registered owner of a 1969 Ambassador (CA Licence: ZOA468) and shows the vehicle's legal owner to be Delta Pontiac, 847 North El Dorado St, Stockton, CA which would be consistent with the Vehicle being on lease agreement to Kane from Delta P.

If you wish to ask another question Thomas, please raise you hand.

Richard

8/10/2015 07:52:23 pm

Do you take the word of Goldcatcher.
Do you take the word of Donald Fouke.
Do you take the word of Armond Pelissetti.
Do you take the word of Marvin Lee.
Do you take the word of Dave Toschi.
Do you take the word of Bill Armstrong.
Do you take the word of William Baker.
Do you take the word of Bryan Hartnell.
Do you take the word of Michael Mageau.
Do you take the word of Ed Rust.
Do you take the word of Richard Hoffman.
Do you take the word of Nancy Slover.
Do you take the word of William Crow.
Do you take the word of the three teenagers.
Do you take the word of Stella Borges.
Do you take the word of Daniel Pitta.
Do you take the word of Dennis Land.

Now out of the above people pick and choose who you believe, to mould your case as you see fit. Drop the ones that don't confirm to your theories and choose the ones that do. Many of the above have statements in the police reports to varying degrees, do you want additional documentation to back up their claims or do you just read the report and believe it lock stock and two smoking barrels. I suppose the answer your looking for is beyond the rainbow, because if Alex produced a copy of the application, you would just say "prove it's not a fake" and like many people have said in the past, you take Harvey Hines with a pinch of salt because of your thoughts on him, but believe a man who goes by an alias and scuttles in the shadows like the prince of darkness. Certainly not a sound basis to project Richard Gaikowski into the light and under the glare of suspicion. If 'The Walking Dead' ever came to fruition he would be beating down your door with Golcatcher's head in his hands.

Tom link

8/11/2015 05:01:12 am

Richard, I challenge you to point to just one instance where I have ever presented uncorroborated claims from Blaine as evidence of anything.

You two are total hypocrites, doing with Hines/Kane what you claim I and others do with Blaine/Gaikowski. It's almost too ironic.

Alex Lewis

8/11/2015 05:33:05 am

I'm fully aware Rich that because this is in relation to Kane, nothing will live up to Tom's absolutely highest standards of what is acceptable as evidence concerning every suspect, all that is, except One Dick Gaik. The bar is significantly lowered to accept evidence that He dismisses when similar claims are made about Kane. See Tom's blinkered and extremely selective evidence picking process see's him fully support and be a proponent of "Look! There is the word GYKE in a line of Cipher and thus, is a genuine circumstantial evidence!'

My observation with genuine impartiality? Well I am reliably informed that while Rich Gaikowski did in fact sign his name with a 4 letter shortened version, Tom's supporting of GYKE as a clue or piece of evidence is complete junk science. quackery! Richard never ever once signed his name as GYKE, and I have stated ma y times why I assume He never did and it's because there's no 'Y' in GAIKOWSKI!

Now, from one absurd claim to another Me V......Are you still championing the claim or idea that not Gaikowski's passport not being available to check travel history is extremely suspicious?
Now to someone like me, I don't see anything suspicious, untoward or out of the ordinary because at the time you said Gaik's P'port gone missing is suspicious, Gaik had been deceased for a decade! Now as per my understanding, deceased individuals don't need their passport to leave the Country on account of them having left the realm of the living.

Robin Smith

8/11/2015 05:47:37 am

Alex!...Kane could not sign the lease for the Pontiac at Delta Pontiac but because John Miles KNEW Sarah he let her co-sign!

MOTHER KANE...I would like to know what name she signed that car lease with...if the HINES report says please let me know:)

Alex Lewis

8/11/2015 06:23:40 am

Rich here is what the Narrator said of Blain, excuse me, Mould-Sniffer or whatever name it was he used on that show: Narrator: "He (MouldSniffer) says He has Physical Evidence to back up his story, including, a photograph depicting the man!"

You couldn't make this shit up Rich. I am not aware of previous crime or case where the prosecution goers to Court to try to convict someone for not just a parking ticket but multiple homicides and prosecutor stand in front of the jury holding a photograph of a man that slightly resembles a composite drawing and prosecutor says "Look at this photo, this is the defendant sat over there, He looks a bit like a wanted poster composite like 1,000,000 other's also, and we rest case." If I was on that Jury the Judge would be banging his gabble barking the demand "ORDER, ORDER IN THE COURT" and I'd then have to apologize for entering into a non controllable laughing fit while declaring the prosecutor to be mentally unstable and out of touch with reality. But anyway, having a photograph of someone they deem as physical evidence, if you know or discover of what Rich Please fill me in.

Fear not,Tom states in this show "This Audio could potentially break this case.." You know the "Don't worry, don't worry..."
That's great Tom, good luck.Oh by the way, you can't break anything with audio of a dead man by getting some elderly lady to confirm that yes, 40 plus years on, that's the man I spoke with almost half A Century ago for 30 seconds or so and confirms as such after camera men, production crew, Producer and finally Director with........."Ok rolling sound and camera,..... Nancy Slover affirmation Take 1, annnnnnd....ACTION!"

This will break nothing but your Heart Thomas, the case is not in danger of being broken b y yourself Tom, so..... DON'T WORRY, DON'T WORRY!
Blain's 'Hard' Evidence: https://youtu.be/tjTpkX52t7M

Alex Lewis

8/11/2015 06:47:39 am

Robin, in regards to your asking: "Alex!...Kane could not sign the lease for the Pontiac at Delta Pontiac but because John Miles KNEW Sarah he let her co-sign!
MOTHER KANE...I would like to know what name she signed that car lease with...if the HINES report says please let me know:)"

The answer is, no, doesn't say what Name she signed the joint lease with only that John Miles told Harvey that He knew Sarah. He seemed to know them pretty well because Harvey notes in his report that Miles has told him "His name is CANE and spelled with A C, but, Miles said, He would also spell it often using A K and go by KANE.

Alex Lewis

8/11/2015 07:32:23 am

Thomas stated:
"Richard, I challenge you to point to just one instance where I have ever presented uncorroborated claims from Blaine as evidence of anything."

I believe this statement is, in all likelihood, very accurate. Although, This is only accurate Thomas by simple default in that, Nothing that Blaine has ever said in regard to Gaik being Zodiac has ever been substantiated. This is why Thomas when you yourself asked the Gold one on MysteryQuest why He was so sure that Gaik was Zodiac and what evidence He may have Blaine said: "Well, I mean, I just know He is the Zodiac serial killer." Is this any type of answer relevant to the question you had put to Blaine?

It brings to mind one of the Zodiac's claims but changed slightly.....

"I saw & Think that Thomas and Blaine Blaine are the best satirical double act I have ever seen. Yours truly.
Tom plunged himself with GoldCatcher He says,
and an echo arose from their dead suspects grave....."DON'T WORRY, DON'T WORRY!"

Richard

8/11/2015 08:27:06 am

Here is a statement from Goldcatcher on Mystery Quest "The first time that I was aware he was the Zodiac serial killer was 23rd February 1986, he was telling me things about the Zodiac crimes that only the killer could have known." This statement makes no sense. If Richard Gaikowski was telling Goldcatcher only things the killer could have known, how could Goldcatcher know they were true, unless he also knew things about the crimes that nobody else knew. If you follow this reasoning then Goldcatcher must have had prior access to police reports with only information known to them, so he could verify Gaikowski's stories. Tom said in this documentary "This audio could potentially crack the case". Who was the last criminal to be jailed based only on recollections from memory decades earlier, given by an anonymous source, who wouldn't of testified anyway. Nancy Slover said firstly the voice came close, then changed to it's the same guy. No chance, not after 40 years, hearing and eyesight changes markedly as we age. Not to mention out of the whole of California alone, many people would sound the same over the phone and in all frankness the Presidio Heights sketch is redundant as viable evidence, it could look like 10's of thousands of people and more.

Alex Lewis

8/11/2015 09:22:53 am

Yes but Richard we must never loose sight of the fact that both you & I are hypocritical idiots and that Thomas over there has been on A Documentary as A 'Zodiac Expert' which means to himself and others who are like minded that Thomas is The Elected Speaker and Offical 'Higher up' within the Zodiac Community's theoretical ladder of importance that I refuse to recognize and aways have.
To me, Thomas is a just 'Man' and a very idiotic one too.

You would think see, that if you had once championed Art Allen as, quote: "When you take all of the evidence, the watch, the ambidextrous ability, bloody knife in vehicle then He simply has to be the Zodiac.."

This is what Thomas the Plank declared on camera for documentary 'Hunting the Zodiac', during which time the DNA, prints etc from Art Allen were compared and they were furnished, live on camera, 'Allen isn't your man" and Tom's facial expression and seeming as though any second He was going to burst into tears was priceless!

See now being made to look like the ass He is on camera once and embarrass himself and look like a total tit who's credibility just collapsed into dust, you'd think Rich that if ever one has a potential to learn from your own tunnel visioned mistakes it's going to be this one here. Not Thomas, oh No No, He's far too stupid to learn from the last public shaming of his own self and credibility and is determined that He is going to 'Investigate' Gaik exactly the same way and will, I'd put my house on this, end up with exactly the same result again. But He's been on a documentary Richard so I am expected to act i'm in the presence of The Divine King of the Zodiac Community. I shall recognze Thomas as a title, He does deserve that much, "All rise for the King of Idiocy, His Royal dimness & Pharaoh of the land of Retard, King Thomzac II. Pay Homage Richard, we are in the presence of Divine stupidity!

Alex Lewis

8/11/2015 10:30:18 am

"Tom said the Audio may crack this case." Well if Tom says it Richard it simply has to be possible even likely to go from the realm of 'Could' to 'It Will.' Now Richard I must warn you that if you attempt to gain entry Thomas or Steve's sites respectively then because both of them have the same, almost identical Tyranical Moderator Police Forces full double standard policing of the Sites which I am sure were trained by North Korea's finest on how to remove other peoples rights and freedom to speak and or defend themselves, they will pounce Rich and arrest you and I fear you will find yourself facing charges of High Treason against man who is expert and been o n tv to prove it.
But the most serious Xharge they will accuse you of Rich, an offence for which they give you a sentence of Death by Firing Modtl, in "Conspiracy to associate with Welsh Chappie, a known anarchist who consistently refuses to conform and submit to the Dictatorship mentality.
I told you Richard that the resulting end game of your associating with a myself I described long ago as being 'Deplorable at best.'

It not a walk in the Julius Kahn Park to be Welsh Richie as we are not liked the World over. Fouke in his meno said "ZODIAC WAS A FU**** FAT WELSH GUY WITH A LIMP!"

Tom link

8/15/2015 04:48:16 pm

So I asked for an example of me using uncorroborated statements from Blaine and presenting them as fact, as I have been accused of doing, and after all this time nobody can even come up with one instance. I believe an apology is in order.

Richard

8/15/2015 06:38:59 pm

"I just got off the phone with Paul's sister, Carol. We spoke for over an hour.
At the time of Paul's murder, Carol worked as the regional secretary for the General Adjustment Bureau (insurance) in San Francisco. She's a very rational, intelligent and well-spoken person.
Carol confirmed that she had been contacted by Blaine back in the 1980s. She also confirmed that Blaine showed her a picture of a man, and that she recognized him as being at Paul's funeral. That photo Blaine showed Carol was of Richard Gaikowski".
BLAINE IS PROVEN HONEST ONCE AGAIN.
Honest about what, that RG was at Stine's funeral, can I see the photographs.

Richard

8/15/2015 07:25:30 pm

"In this audio clip, Gaikowski and Blaine discuss the recent murder of San Francisco cab driver Leonard Smith. Gaikowski didn't know the call was being recorded. According to Blaine, Gaikowski killed Smith (an acquaintance) to scare Blaine into silence"

This is an uncorroborated claim that Richard Gaikowski killed Leonard Smith. Why use this on your forum if you are not attempting to to bolster your case against Gaikowski. You are not using this quote as evidence admittedly, but the implication is there, as is the section 'MURDER IS PERFECTLY NORMAL',"I simply can't imaging spinning this to make Gyke's comments appear normal" and "What "right circumstances" are there for murdering someone"?. They appear pretty normal to me and there are plenty of right circumstances for wanting to kill somebody, catching somebody round your mothers house trying to murder her would be one for starters. If you are not presenting these countless threads as circumstantial evidence to implicate or suggest Richard Gaikowski is the Zodiac Killer what are you presenting them for. Using Goldcatcher contained within these threads are further examples namely Leonard Smith, why use it, if not to provide circumstantial evidence in a drip drip effect.

Richard

8/15/2015 08:09:02 pm

"Goldcatcher is an extremely intelligent man and I can't count how many times a sensational claim about Gaikowski from Goldcatcher turned out to be true. He's more than earned the benefit of the doubt".
I'll ask you this, how many times has a claim about Gaikowski proved to be false. You'll need more fingers than Captain Birdseye.

Alex Lewis

8/16/2015 06:00:12 am

Tom Tom, you are such a liar. You told me personally, when I pointed out to you that after Albany, GAIK went on a lifelong ambition of his touring Europe that there was no evidence of this as His passport could not be located to verify it, which, you said, was suspicious. I then pointed out to you that an article in an Irish Newspaper stated that Richard Gaikowski, former editor for 'Good Times' was visiting Ireland and the piece mentioned that Richard was seen to weep when it was made known to him what poverty the children were living in back in those days.
Again, Narlow cleared Gaik years ago stating He had a rock solid alibi. This is probably it.

You based your remarks on Slovers reaction? Ha! I absolutely guarantee you this, had David Slaight done a documentary and been asked the same question only this time it was the voice of Kane, you'd call Slaight demented or suffering from loss of memory or anything else that you could think of to discredit him.

Interesting that you should choose the word 'Unsmart' Thomas, because one definition of this is: "not having or showing an ability to absorb ideas readily."

The above describes you perfectly, your background and claims show an abundance of this!

Tom link

8/16/2015 12:17:31 pm

"Honest about what, that RG was at Stine's funeral, can I see the photographs."

Seriously? People were doubting that Blaine had even spoke with Carol let showed her a pic of Gaikowski that she recognized.

Tom link

8/16/2015 12:21:04 pm

"This is an uncorroborated claim that Richard Gaikowski killed Leonard Smith."

And that is how it was presented, never did I claim it was true. If Blaine is lying it's on him. I'm not responsible for claims made by other people.

Tom link

8/16/2015 12:22:52 pm

"I'll ask you this, how many times has a claim about Gaikowski proved to be false. You'll need more fingers than Captain Birdseye."

From Blaine? Humor me. I will settle for just five examples.

Tom link

8/16/2015 12:25:47 pm

"If you are not presenting these countless threads as circumstantial evidence to implicate or suggest Richard Gaikowski is the Zodiac Killer what are you presenting them for."

I post info I think might interest people who visit a Zodiac website. Sometimes it is about Gaikowski, often it is not. I reckon you do the exact same thing.

Tom link

8/16/2015 12:29:46 pm

"Tom, you are such a liar. You told me personally, when I pointed out to you that after Albany, GAIK went on a lifelong ambition of his touring Europe that there was no evidence of this as His passport could not be located to verify it, which, you said, was suspicious."

First of all, you have never "pointed out" anything to me about this case or anything else. Second, that alleged conversation is a product of your imagination. Liar. Or are you referring to the night you came into chat and everyone was fucking with you because you were such a Kane troll?

Tom link

8/16/2015 12:32:11 pm

"Narlow cleared Gaik years ago stating He had a rock solid alibi."

Narlow never said such a thing and now you have stooped to lying about what a dead man said. Congrats. Richard you must be so proud.

Tom link

8/16/2015 03:41:32 pm

Once again: I asked for an example of me using uncorroborated statements from Blaine and presenting them as fact, as I have been accused of doing, and after all this time nobody can even come up with one instance. I believe an apology is in order.

Ray Jenkins

12/6/2017 06:15:53 pm

Oh God! Goldcatcher aka Purple Blaine, aka Blaine Blaine, aka Blaine T. Blaine, aka Thorman Smith, aka Zakatorious. The great prophet who every now and then comes in from the desert wilderness to enlighten us all about his teachings on Zodiac. Is he even still alive?

Robin Smith

8/8/2015 11:51:59 pm

Tom Voight

Connie Stevens, remember her? Gorgeous girl, talented also.

Tom link

8/15/2015 04:25:30 pm

A moron wrote: "Richard never ever once signed his name as GYKE, and I have stated many times why I assume He never did and it's because there's no 'Y' in GAIKOWSKI!"

Well, it has long been documented he also went by Gike and Guyk, even though there is neither a E (Gike) nor an U (Guyk) in GAIKOWSKI.

The same moron wrote: "Are you still championing the claim or idea that Gaikowski's passport not being available to check travel history is extremely suspicious?"

No, and I never did.

The same moron wrote: "Tom said the Audio may crack this case."

It was partly Nancy's reaction to the audio that motivated MysteryQuest to do the Gyke episode in the first place, and had the show's resulting DNA testing matched Gyke and Zodiac, well, the audio would have helped crack the case. So my quote is 100% accurate.

You are entirely unsmart.

Richard

7/30/2015 03:57:24 pm

Like I said before Tom, I am not a 'Kane buff', I have no allegiance, Alex secured the document and I have no doubt will reply to your question in due course. I received permission for that small snippet above, nothing more, so I will leave him to choose to respond accordingly.

Tom link

7/31/2015 03:49:00 am

The three Kane buffs are Harvey and Destry Hines, and Ed Rust.

Robin Smith

8/17/2015 02:26:33 am

Tom Voight

It seems that you forgot to list Alex Lewis as one of the "KANE" BUFFS!

Alex has an excellent site that lists more new news about Kane!!! He has aquired the entire Harvey Hines report from Harvey's son Destry

Alex Lewis

8/17/2015 04:19:14 am

As much as I relish being referred to as 'Buff of Kane', the enemy and alternate to The Mark Of, I prefer to drop the term Buff as I see myself introducing myself to people one day as "Hi, I'm Alex, Larry Kane's current day Buff, and you are. . .?"

I propose the dropping of the term Buff (why keeps reminding me of a certain vampire slayer) and replace it with the two words that are: 'Proponent of' and that's proponent of based on the suspects we have that are available to look at.

I read a comment written on a forum 2 to 3 weeks ago that started "Hi, I am Alex, not the well know Alex who investigates the case...." or words similar and I must say, I almost rang the Queen demanding my MBE for dedicated and prolonged service to, ermmm, A US unsolved Cold Case. I had to stop myself posting from that moment on as 'Alexander The Great' and open every post with This is the Great one Speaking, so come to order please and All Rise!"

But then Tom said I was not Great but said I was a, quote: Troll. I am still on suicide watch and keep asking 'Do this also mean that I live under a Bridge now?' Still, the answers elude me. It felt like finding my Premiership place with Manchester Utd had been replaced and I found myself playing instead for Conference League club the nobody ever heard of Dover Athletic, stadium capacity: 15.

Robin Smith

8/1/2015 08:51:59 am

Blood letting!...YES:)!!!

Tom link

8/1/2015 05:09:26 pm

Notice how "Welsh_Chappie" (Alex Lewis) does not deny accusing me of hoarding Kane info -- which I never did -- yet he admits to doing what he incorrectly claimed I was doing.

:)

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 07:15:24 pm

Accusing you of what? Hoarding Kane info? What are you talking about? I've never accused you of anything of the sort Thomas because I have never needed to. That's your ego believing that everyone has to go to you for information relating to this case and that's b.s Thomas. I have Kane's Arrest Rec through the FOIA, I have Harvey's full report through directly speaking with the Hines Family. Get over yourself Tom, I have never accused you of withholding anything for the simple reason that I have never wanted nor requested anything from you, nor ever will.

Alex Lewis

8/1/2015 07:19:29 pm

Anyway, this is a chat forum based on the article above. The above article has nothing to do with Kane, nor is Rich an advocate of Kane or any other suspect. And out of respect for Richard and this article and thread, I am not responding anymore to your argumentative and accusatory posts.

Alex Lewis

8/17/2015 12:54:47 am

Thomas, I do hereby declare you to be one of two things. You are either willfully completely stupid and backwards or, your not aware of it due to your head injury that your old man confirmed you suffered when He was interviewed for Hunting The Zodiac Documentary. There is something wrong with you regardless the cause thereof because you have created a thread all about me personally at your site (Which Thomas I cannot tell you how much this means to me, I've even considered sending you a thank you bouquet of flowers) and you did, after my refusing to give you the Hines report, refer to me as A Troll which, it will be clear to anyone with eye's and a brain cell, is exactly what your doing to myself on this very thread.

However, I forgive you Thomas, you are not to know the levels your stupidity rises to and how absolutely hypocritical and ridiculous you really are. "Alex is a troll, he trolls threads created by others. I am going now to disagree argue with everything Alex claims on Richards site and do with no knowledge or awareness of myself being exactly what I slam him as being, because I am backward Tom.

It's OK backward boy, your allowed to be contradictory and the utter hypocrite and not be aware because you have A head injury, rather similar to Mr Kane, only in your case I imagine doctors diagnosed 'Thomas recent behaviors show He lacks impulse control which manifests in his automatic 'Rally against something as repulsive before doing that which of which you preach against. He certainly shows an inability to control his own self stupidity associated symptoms thereof.

Alex Lewis

8/17/2015 03:13:03 am

As someday it may happen that a Sic-Tom may be found,
He's on the a waiting list, the psyc ward's waiting list,
A society pretender and that website that He found,
where many do enlist, charged fee's by this egotist.
There's the pestilential nuisances who want his autographs,
at this I simply sit back and manically will laugh,
stopping only to point out something I simply must insist,
His source's name is GoldCatch Blaine, A kook whom history has dismissed.

PS. There are reports that stupid pig idiot boy has his own website, fk, please piss off back to it. Like I always said, He's a crack-Head!

Alex Lewis

8/17/2015 04:34:15 am

Tom, I realized when reading some of your other posts that I am wasting my time because I have concluded that you cannot argue or debate vs another when that antagonist argues from an irrational, complete double standard and contradictory POV that due to his Head Injury, He is mentally not competent nor able to see and understand.

Can't argue with insanity, because insanity will just believe whatever it decides to based on it fitting an agenda insanity is working toward. If Tom said tomorrow 'Gaik is unquestionable Zodiac and He was not witnessed on Lake Herman Rd due to his flying away after the carnage was complete. This is similar to Pacific Heights only i that instance He made himself invisible to all emergency responders, cops and fire crews alike. I think all will agree that this is the most logical and likely answer to how Richie Gaik, acting as one called 'Zodiac' did get away without being detected. Any questions?"

Alex Lewis

8/2/2015 05:54:03 am

It seems to me Tom is here wishing to take the attention away from the above article, and instead, turn this page into a school yard round of name calling because He cannot get his own way and what He wants.

Not my site Rich, but am I alone in assuming He's not doing any justice to this article, nor does He care about it. It's offending him because You have had the audacity to uncover, then release first, a potential new piece of evidence that is not therefore an exclusive for him and his site to release. That's why He's here, first thing He says is you are not the first to put this call forward, and there is no bases or evidence for it at all. So we are wasting our time Richard because it never happened because Doubting Thomas has spoketh. Told you Rich I was deplorable at best, didn't I?

Tom Voigt link

8/2/2015 07:01:52 am

"It seems to me Tom is here wishing to take the attention away from the above article..."

Well, the "above article" contains at least two references to the full Hines report. You sure are desperate to change the subject and censor comments, as well as attempt to disregard Gaikowski as a suspect via posting lies and misinformation. No worries, I will have the full report soon enough.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 08:19:59 am

Does anyone out there kN0w how old Tom Voigt is? I am fixated N0w:)...

I must be going rounds with someone who is too young to kN0w first hand what was going on in the late 60's early 70's!

Robin Smith

8/6/2015 01:09:24 am

Tom Voight...

It seems that you are N0t up to speed on the Mayor of South Lake Tahoe.

The" Mayor" was the SAHARA TAHOE'S boat Capt in the "day". The same boat Capt that squired ELVIS around the LAKE when he was here 5x in 5 yrs...1971-1976.

You said he got his info from trawling around the internet???

YOU R sooo wrong....

Tom link

8/6/2015 02:03:29 pm

What's with your stupid gimmick of inserting "N0" in certain words?

Nevermind, I don't want to know.

So people who drive Elvis around on boats are Zodiac experts by nature. Gotcha.

Robin Smith

8/6/2015 06:19:12 pm

Tom Voight

I am simply trying to explain to you that the person that told your poster Sandy Betts about Larry Kane being in Lake Tahoe and working next to Donna Lass at the SAHARA TAHOE when she went missing was N0t just a lowly dealer or keN0 writer but a person of position with Del E Webb with a credible and long history here.

Fact is that Kane was N0t just working for Del E Webb he was working for Allen Dorfman of Mobster fame. Del E Webb was from FresN0, Ca by way of Arizona where he founded his signature co. Health issues forced Del E Webb to Az.

Coincidently Mr. Webb made his millions in MONTANA from military contracts and aN0ther coincidence built a CasiN0 in Las Vegas for Bugsy Siegel. Remember him?

Robin Smith

8/17/2015 01:53:50 am

Tom Voight...How old did you say you were...your mental age?

I Have two Masters Degrees in Special Ed and I feel like I'm working here:)

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 06:24:10 am

Out here in the "West", we call it RCI (rectal cranial inversion:)

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 06:32:06 am

Tom...where were you circa 1970??...fair question is it N0t since were discussing 1970 circumstances and events.

Alex Lewis

8/24/2015 01:25:13 am

Errrr, Robin, did you not hear the news last week? Allow me to give you the basics to catch up.....

Mr Thomas Voigt received a telephone call last weekend from a deity called 'GOD' that did create and subsequently govern the universe. Yahweh, or GOD as we know Him, called Tom to say that the following day at 9am sharp, He, Yahweh GOD of Isreal, was retiring from being in control of all things and told Thomas that He had searched the Earth and found Tom's Ego to be most inflated and therefore offered Tom the recently available job vacency. Tom and His ego accepted and took over as 'Knower of all things.'

Well, at least that is what Thomas seems to believe, anyway.

Alex Lewis

8/24/2015 01:28:07 am

This is why Robin, Thomas said down a few posts below this: "WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED."

He refers to himself as WE because He is a part of the Divine Trinity of The Father, The Son, and the Holy Thomas.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 07:51:40 am

Alex,

I am still anxious to kN0w when you find out the location of that payphone!

Alex Lewis

8/2/2015 08:26:59 am

No such Payphone exists Robin in which Paul's fatal passenger uses to call yellow cab, didn't you just see what Tommy boy said earlier in the thread? He has been on a documentary Robin and someone once captioned his nae followed by the words: "Zodiac Expert" so if He declares no call was made then we must no question, Toschi is obviously making shit up again because He's psychotic.

Robin Smith

8/2/2015 08:42:13 am

TY Alex..so much back and forth I can N0t keep up!!

Tom link

8/2/2015 08:44:45 am

Funny how you beg the website admin for censorship because of "name calling," yet you are the one who can't stop himself.

Alex Lewis

8/24/2015 11:47:09 am

Well Robin that's worded as though it's a certainty beyond all question, I will find out which dog & bone our Secret Pal used. Before discovering which it was that He called from, it is helpful to know how many potentials you have to narrow down. I just don't have a clue because I am on another Continent and never been to Trafalgar Square let alone Union Square and 1969 was 13 years before my arrival upon Earth lol.
Although, I kid you not this is completely true, the day I was born the pope was photographed on the Front Page of a National Paper kissing the ground. My ex Girlfriend of several years and I were both born on May 28th, 1982 and we joke to this day that John Paul II had been given notice that we had arrived this day lol

Tom link

8/17/2015 03:50:59 pm

WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED:

*I have never presented uncorroborated claims from Blaine as so-called evidence against Gaikowski

*This is a site that endorses misinformation

*Buh-bye

Alex Lewis

8/23/2015 11:07:13 pm

We, Thomas? Who are the 'WE' for which you seem to speak for? Or have you nominated yourself fit and eligable to speak for, and on behalf of, other people? Or does one have multiple personality disorder and I am speaking with one of Tom's 'Persons?'

Alex Lewis, not Worthy oh Backward-One!

8/24/2015 01:32:43 am

Ahhh I see, WE as in 'WE in the creatior/Holy Trinity. You are worthy of a designated place in the realm of the Divine....

From now on we shall declare "In the name of The Father, The Son, and the Holy-Stupid-one, AMEN!'

Robin Smith

8/22/2015 02:18:01 am

114 posts!! scores

Tom Voight = 36
Alex = 32
Robin = 30
Richard = 15
Greg = 1

TOM VOIGHT WINS!!!

Richard

8/22/2015 02:34:06 am

Robin you just forgot the post you just posted-Robin 31. Waiting for the knockout blow.

Alex Lewis

8/24/2015 01:17:15 am

"114 posts!! scores

Tom Voight = 36
Alex = 32
Robin = 30
Richard = 15
Greg = 1

TOM VOIGHT WINS!!!"

And this is the same Tom Voigt that has declared on his message board that I, WelshChappie, am A Quote: "Troll."

Now a troll is a uthimistic term for the personality type that follows a person online and replies to every post they may write and publish with the intent to discredit, disprove or refute totally what the commenter has said or says i every single post.
This is why I say Voigt doesn't see His own stupidity and completely hypocritical pathetcness in that I have not and never will be seen commenting over at his properganda site and yet here He is with a top winning score of 'most posted comments' trolling me and my statements.

Like I have always said, Tommy is a Crack-Head who will never learn from his mistakes because His ego is too stupid for Him.

Alex Lewis

9/1/2015 11:21:40 am

Hey Rich I was watching a Documentary the other day and it seemed to give answer to the question we were asking of what details would Yellow Cab require back then if you rang and requested a cab?

The documentary topic was set in NY in the early 70's and stated "Cab drivers back then had to fill in their (forget the word but there was an actual term or word for these sheets) log sheet with a pick up point, the requested destination, and final price. This it said was 'standard for cab drivers' and I assume this would apply to SF like it did NY. So my question is, we know Paul wrote the 'going to' bit as Washington & Maple but, did He also record the 'Going From' point also and this, like the Tel. Call was never released?

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 10:27:39 am

"Attention all shoppers, this is a public service brag....I mean announcement..."

I have been asked would I like to go on an upcoming podcast being planed for early next year to speak about this case and my research and findingsregarding Larry Kane.
The host has studied Criminology and co-host is serving police officer.
Now over at ZKS.com a member who I shall respectfully not name here, changed my mind, its 'TheForeigner', did declare that I write lots but have nothing of any use to say. I am borning and not worth listening to.
Well I mean after I was taken off suicide watch diagnosed as having been 'psycholigical damage and mental hate for self induced by a foreigner' mental illness, I decided not to end it all and to carry on, as usless and pointless as I am.
But then, a criminologist read my article and thought it was so well put together and concinving argument put forward that He has asked me on A Podcast as guest.
So Foreigner, here is a pipe, stick your comements and smoke it!

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 10:53:47 am

And then I have a message that another member over at ZKS is asking about me and where I have gone in saying:

"Chappie -
We think you were really onto something! Harvey Hines has been rolling over in his grave with yur hot and cold detective work. Guessing you've given up on Lawrence Klein/Kane/Kaye/Barton/Cane by now? Is it just becuz he is dead and gone now? Have you moved to yur own website or... please let us know. Thanks- Sunsetsull"

Now Rich, as you know, I will not allow myself to develop an ego so extensive that it takes over and becomes my personality, and this is why I agreed to appear as guest on the podcast for the very reasonable sum of £2,500 or $5,000 ot there-abouts. Also I have sent a contract on what must be done in the event I make a personal appearence such as being introduced (with A Royal Trumpet playing the background) as 'The Universally Recognized, legitimate, undisputed Cold Case solver of the Worlllllllllldddddddddddd...."

ME - So down to Earth and Humble, for someone who is correct approx. 100% of the time.
**Comment will be read by some out there as a genuine serious one, because humor and irony along with tongue in cheek is still illegal in some peoples very serious World. :-)

Richard

9/7/2015 11:57:20 am

Well Chappie I hope you eventually get the red carpet treatment, smoking that big pipe when the bellboy ushers your cases to your suite and don't forget your old pals when you hit the big time. I think you are undervaluing yourself at £2,500, that wouldn't get you a week at the Westin. How long have you got to keep blabbing for, I hope you've got enough smoking mirrors to chuck at them and whatever you do don't tell them you don't believe it's Kane anymore, it's Kjell Qvale.

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 02:11:21 pm

Undervalued my own time and worth you say.......Your right. Two and a half Thousand.....NO DEAL!! Two and half K, week at The Westin all expenses covered and a promise that if caught in Nevada's Veteran Memorial Ground I am exempt from arrest and next day news papers will not read "British mad man digging war veteran resting plot! A Welsh Man was arrested last night when police were notified of a male appearing to dig a war hero's grave plot. When police asked what the hell is He doing the Welsh Person replied "Here lies a society offener who may well be underground, Cane is on the suspect list, DNA I must Insist....." Officer restrained the British man and sent. The man, who's name is believed to be Alex, was advised of his rights and asked would He like a lawyer, but the Welsh Person declined asking instead to speak with David Toschi or Donald Fouke. Asked why he responded simply: "Zodiac, conspiracy! I here intent to solve case! You must release me as I am someone important and to prove this, ask the pod cast host about my valid insight that I used to get upon his show! Me - still detained, Nevada Sheriff - not understand Welsh Importance!

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 03:11:28 pm

I shall arrive at the front desk of Union Square's Westin Hotel, the check in lady will begin....

"Morning Sir, do you have a reservation?"

Yes,I am here to solve that of which is presently unsolved.

"Pardon...No Sir, I mean are you booked in and have a room reservation?"

Yes, I have a reservation. Do you know tomorrow I shall be the guest of a podcast because I am important.....

"No Sir, I didn't know that, how interesting. So if I can just take you...."

Are you aware Madam that allowing Kjell Qvale to secure a cab from here is a terrible idea? Do you know what happened when He was allowed acces to the Payphone not far from here?

"Qvale, Mr Qvale from the Presidio Heights area that lived....."

Yes that lived in the big mansion on Jackson, the very same! Do you know that Mr Qvale did besides selling vehicles sucessfully? No? He liked killing people because it is so much fun, He stated! *voice raised* IS THIS THE KIND OF RIFF RAFF YOU ALLOW TO STAY HERE AT THIS ESTABLISHMENT MADAM???

Alex Lewis

9/16/2015 04:15:32 am

Well this case for myself was, at first anyway, a simple hobby because it blends two subjects I love to study/research, Serial Crime and a good ol' Mystery.

I mean I entered this as a little hobby, and now I am requested to be on podcasts etc. I tell you if Hollywood start demanding I go out there with flight and all expenses covered along with a reservation booed at the Westin St. Francis for 7 days and nights to consult on, and then appear in, A Special Two Hour Documentary made to mark the half century passing of time then I really will have to say enough is enough and walk away.

I may be barred from stepping foot on the soil and sidewalks of San Francisco anyway, I dont think Armond, Don, Toschi and Co would like me there at all. The Airbus wheels would hardly have touched down & I'd have the case solved, we all know that is accurate Richie and it is a burden that I do not carry lightly.

All that would be so true see, if I did not have a phobia of jets and flying.In fact I'd have to be bound and dragged onto an Airbus kicking everything that moved. Sedation would be paramount. If I come around en flight and find I am not bound to the seat then I am making a B-Line for the door whilst shouting "Stop! let me get off now! Should the wing really be that shape? NOOOOO We are going down! HEELPPPPP..." Alex shut the hell up you panic spreading tit! That was just very light turbulence...."
"WHAT! TURBANS! TERRORISTS!! WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!

Anyway back to a serious (ish) subject and thread topic a second. .

As I said Rich, The Westin St Francis employee for public relations seems totally unable to relate info to me the Public person and was guided to the San Fran Historical Society and San Fran Library and their many many records and documents they have regarding the City itself. So, off I dashed now to San Fran's Library website and was filled with excitement at seeing among the online availability's one section entitled 'City Archives' and I clicked, typed in my topic for which I wished to get any records for and got asked "To gain access to these, please enter your library card membership No."

So in a pissed off mood I emailed the SF Library asking how I, British Citizen, can maybe go about getting a membership No to enable me to access the data expecting there may be a policy for overseas citizens to be issued a temp. Membership No. to get access or a day or something.

No No, I was sadly mistaken about this, as email response let me know what I am required to do in order to secure a library membership card/Number:

"You would be required to be a citizen of the City of San Francisco in order to get a library card"
I had to stop myself showering her with sarcastic replies saying: "Is that all I am required to do?Well that is very very reasonable Miss, Very reasonable indeed! I shall then, in light of your telling me this, book the next flight to California and head to San Fran where I will purchase a property, any property will do so I may claim and show residential address as my own in the Bay Area, then i'll pop round to get my membership card. Very reasonable and geographically convenient I must say."

Robin Smith

9/16/2015 07:40:17 am

Alex,

Being new to the serial killer/conspiracy theory/solve it group myself you have the empathy and support o many!

The problem is that many of these people are the left overs of the crimes and are no help whatsoever...as a matter of fact some the still alive ones are actively burying facts and covering their collective asses to this day.

I have the same problem here...these young corporate rising stars are no different than the groupies that went before them...think Bill Cosby!! some people are still trying to cover him and deny that he was a womanizing, drugging, raping pig.

The people that are in charge of Harrahs/Hatveys/SAHARA HAVE NO CLUE AND DO NOT WANT ONE.....MOVE ON OLD LADY!!

People still try to tell me LARRY KANE, who I was sitting next to at the bar, was not at the SAHARA TAHOE when Donna Lass was.

The City of South Lake Tahoe has NO records of what establishment, Donna Lass' apartment with the LOWES for her entire tenure here, 90 days, was paying taxes on 4054 Lake Tahoe Blvd in 1970...the City was incorporated in 1965.

and on on....Harrahs people told me that there was NO golf tournament at Harrahs in 1970...I was there and on and on!

Alex Lewis

10/10/2015 05:11:41 pm

Well if Kane was not at the Sahara Tahoe then there is A Conspiracy to lie and deny His working there that Both Allen Dorfman and Donna's Co Workers seem to be aware of and involved in because Dorfman confirmed that yes, Lawrence was employed by Him and Donna's Co-workers lied to Harvey Hines when they confirmed Kane worked there and knew Donna.
When Hines spoke to Donna's Co-Workers He didn't ask them do they think Larry Kane may have been involved because Hines didn't know He existed and it was Donna's co workers who themselves without Hines leading them into doing so, offered that there was an individual who they thought was strange and a bit odd, and who they believed had known Donna Lass, and that was a man who worked down the hall from their own work station by the name of Kane, Lawrence Kane.

Although I did think it odd that Harvey points out in His report that when He asked Dorfman what Kane did for Him specifically, ie His Job Title and Description, Dorfman, Hines said, became very evasive with answering and Hines asked was Larry employed selling Real Estate for Him, Dorfman did not give a definitive yes or no but simply replied "Lawrence is not a Licenced Real Estate Agent."

g500

10/11/2015 11:39:55 am

On one of his drivers licenses, Kane listed "Box C, Stateline, NV" as a primary address. This, incidentally, was the mailing address for the Sahara Tahoe's personnel office:

http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=DS19730425.2.160.7

http://www.ecrater.com/p/9749248/sahara-tahoe-resort-south-shore

Alex Lewis MBE

10/24/2015 10:40:34 pm

"Being new to the serial killer/conspiracy theory/solve it group myself you have the empathy and support of many."

Good! As long as I got everyone empathising with me and me hopeless positon I find myself in, that's all that I will need. In fact, I shall now 'Come Out' and admit that I wrote the Kane article in hopes of garnering a few rounds of empathetic seeking 'poor little me' sympathy seeking ploy.
Only yesterday Rob a reader left me a comment offering "Alex, read what you've submitted here and your reaserch is to be admitted...." I cut this pleb off "Thank you but, fu** you, fu** your admiration and kindly shove your positive comments where the sun doesn't shine!

Give me my Fuc***g Empathy NOW! I'll get on that Bus and say "Return please driver" 'Where too, young man?" "Back here you idiot!" before I grab my chest and collapse in a wonderful display of empathy suctioning seen since I amputated my legs for some people to feel sorry for me.

MBE if your wondering is not the Royal Award bestowed upon myself, although I should get the MBE because I decided that I deserve it, it's actually required under the Mental Health Act and signifies "Mentally Backwards, Emphatically'

Robin Smith

10/11/2015 12:07:37 pm

g500

YESS!!!! TY....every little piece fits:) TY again

Robin Smith

10/11/2015 12:59:20 pm

g500

I have the picture of Canes 6-28-76 Ca drivers license. That you sent me... P.O. Box 375 Zephyr Cove, Nv with a DOB 4-29-22 and another address of Lake Tahoe Inn.

Do you have a pic of this P.O.Box C Stateline Nev license?

Alex Lewis

10/11/2015 11:09:59 pm

Kane seemed to move around not just from State to State or even City to City but while in S. Lake Tahoe, He seemed to move short distances numerous time. Ponderosa, Skyland. Round Hill Village, Zephyr Cove. Mcfaul Way, Zephyr Cove. 1316 Cave Rock drive, Zephyr Cove. Tahoe Inn, SLT.

Incidentally, just for Trivia purposes: The Sierra Club is not the actual name of the place, but just refers to the group that meet there. The actual place name is The Claire Tappan Lodge.

Robin Smith

10/12/2015 01:54:31 am

Alex...ALL of the above address' are properties that belong to one Robert Maloff. KANE'S benefactor till his death.

Robert MALOFF, whose Russian wife Lisa, was wardrobe mistress for 'Kay Starr'.... a famous singer from the old days that appeared regularly at Harrahs.

Lisa is still alive and just this year donated $10,000,000.00 + to the local hospital 'Barton Memorial' in Mr Maloff's name and she donated another $5,000,000.00 to the local Community College in Mr. Maloff's name.

Robert Maloff who built Lake Tahoe Inn on the Stateline next to Harrahs.

Robert Maloff..... one of Darlene Ferrins people...Sandy Betts would know the name...told the VPD to lay off Kane because he was Robert Maloff's Mob juice.

Lake Tahoe Inn is the second address on the drivers license of Cane dated 6-28-1976 SLT, Ca and gives Kane's birthdate as 4-29-22.

Sandy Betts must have more info on Robert Maloff and his lifelong business partner George Karadanis(from Martinez, Ca). Both deceased in the past couple of years.

Alex Lewis

10/12/2015 02:13:02 am

Kane was rather like the Queen of England.....both have more than one birthday per year. Her Majesty differs in that we know which is the official birthday & which is unofficial.

Klein had the DOB you mentioned, Apr. 29, 1922 and also another which is dame day, Apr. 29 but this time it's 1924 (this DOB, Apr 29, 1924 is, coincidentally as it happens, the one Hines claims 'Is the correct DOB for Klein) The third and last one He used was Apr. 26, 1924 which according to the FBI documents I have via The FOIA, this DOB is the correct one.
So even I can't say with certainty which is the real date of birth as I have never seen an official birth record or certificate

Alex 'Poverty Stricken' Lewis

10/24/2015 10:16:27 pm

"Lisa is still alive and just this year donated $10,000,000.00 + to the local hospital 'Barton Memorial' fund"

Ten Million Dollars donated to a memorial fund & an ability to do so in a hostile economical climate like we have at present is wonderful. Approx Six Million British Pounds kindly handed over for a charity that likes to memorialise dead people that don't need 6 pence let alone Six Million and....

Sorry to cut off here but this is a relative of Alex. I am sad to announce that Alex passed away earlier today, found deceased after a long battle (at least Seven long minutes, possibly even eight!) against a bacterial disease called 'The Bubonic Plague' and a prognosis by a bacteria disease specilist gaveHis professional prognosis of Alex being 'Absolutely fucked and available for the imminent action of dropping dead on the floor.

PS - Robin, ask Lisa if my memorial fund.....'Alex Lewis, dead if anyone asks memorial' and it's sister charity He set up 9 seconds before He died called 'Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity if Caught' trust. Ask Malloff if she got a spare 3 or 4 Mil for my memorial fund? And ermmm, is it true that Charity's get Tax breaks?

Alex of possible Welsh Ancestry

11/7/2015 06:36:26 pm

Pasted FOIA Request:

"April 29, 2015
For Attention of FOIA Officer: Mr David P. Sobonya.

The
following requests are being made under the Freedom of Information Act.

The
relevant Date ranges of this request I will add in the following description of
this Request.

This request submitted is for the release of redacted names of
suspects that feature in specific FBI Document. Please use the following
information to locate the document in question:

The Header/Title at top of
Document is: Federal Bureau of Investigation Latent Fingerprint Section Work
Sheet.
The Reference on the Document is: 9-2296
The FBI File Number is: 9-49911
(-62 is written on the document manually after the File No so it reads 9-49911
-62)
The Latent Case Number is: A-10042
Document RE: ZODIAC; EXTORTION.
Date
that appears on Document as per when received: 12-1-69.
Date that appears at
footer of page stating when Examination was Complete is: 12-3-69

Upon the
locating of the above Document, Please could you review the names of suspects
that are redacted in the uploaded original public release version of this
document and determine which, if any, of these Named individuals, referred to as
'Suspects' in this document, are now deceased and can therefore be released to
the public. I acknowledge that standard procedure in FOIA requests for Name's or
Personal information relating to specific person or persons is to have the onus
to show proof of death placed on the requesting party. As I will hope you can
appreciate, because this request is for the release of the individuals names
that are redacted I cannot, by default, know any information regarding their
being Alive or Deceased.
Should you find than any or all named individuals are
now legally eligible for public release, I intend to only use the information
for my own private use.

I appreciate your taking the time to read and
subsequently consider this request and look forward to receiving your response..."

There are reports at ZKS that this FOIA was not successful and I know nothing more on this topic. Like I always said, assuming is dangerous. If these speculation throwing people want to know they best get off their fat asses and ask the FBI.

Me - Knower of everything, Other Sites - Nill.

Alex Lewis,

11/7/2015 06:44:05 pm

They know if they check my Wordpress site that this was a Freedom of Info request of the most successful Kind. So, let us assume that the sister FOIA for the release of named suspect that Doc states witness in the murder of Taxi driver identified Mr Whos-it Redacted as possible subject in this matter is actually not like the above in its successful response. Do I know details of said named individual? No, I don't......other people said.

SCOUT

12/6/2017 02:59:19 pm

WRONG! never make any call to the taxi company! never did it! ZODIAC KILLER make an arrangement they knew each other why is so harder to believe?

Alex Lewis

12/9/2017 09:21:40 am

Scout. . .

Are you suggesting Zodiac & Paul were known to each other & that Paul had arranged to meet Z that evdning so He could allow Z to shoot him in the head?

No but serious, the only remote hint of a driver Paul being aquainted with His passenger Zodiac prior to picking Him up is the suggested/claimed scenario of Paul's passenger riding up front adjacent to, rather than in rear seat of cab and behind Paul. This is theorised but not a known certainty.

Likrwise, the idea of passenger and driver having to be previously aquainted prior to them meeting on Oct. 11 comes about based on a single claim/statement made by Carol, Pauls Sister who stated that Paul did not allow passenger's to ride up front aongside Him unless He knew them personally fairly well.

Is this a Rule for safety Paul worked the streets observing without excrption. . . Answers on a post card, please.

Jolly Roger

7/14/2018 04:46:06 pm

Zodiac made an arrangement with Stine? Now I have heard it all. Hilarious!!!

Zodiac

7/14/2018 07:17:11 am

Glad to know im not the only one who Tom has an Issue with, honestly. All i told him is Ted Kaczynski was cleared by the FBI. And bam, a ban. This guys a clown. It's my gods honest belief that none of the suspects is the guy. But someone they knew

Jolly Roger

7/14/2018 04:40:14 pm

I posted a couple of times on "his" forum regarding my doubts about the Goldcatcher theory. I felt the sound clips "he" had posted seemed very "cherry picked". Because of this, I felt there was an obvious danger that the material could be taken out of context, without hearing the entire phone conversations. I felt "his" contention that the tapes were "too fragile" to allow us to hear the entire phone discussions seemed rather "convenient". I said I could not find any evidence in the few clips "he" had provided that made Gaikowski seem even remotely interesting. I added that I could not understand why commentators like Sandy Betts were permitted such a free reign on the forum, to basically say whatever she liked, while appearing to be overtly friendly with the moderators. I made a mildly negative critical comment about one aspect of Sandy's story and immediately received a PM from Sandy herself. She told me I was treading on very thin ice and added, "Believe me, you do not want to get yourself banned". So I reworded my comment as a more innocuous question.

Next time I tried to log in I got a message telling me I had been banned!!

Personally I don't think the Zodiac was anyone "they" knew. I remain convinced that "they" really have few, if any, real clues of any value, but they wish to keep pushing "their" own little barrow nevertheless. The barrow with the squeakiest wheel always makes the most noise. Those who are most loud and noisy seldom appreciate it if anybody else tries to "steal their thunder". The noisy ones will perceive this as a threat. It seems that on some online forums one can become a threat simply by asking a few pertinent questions or by being mildly analytical.

I do remain adamant that "they" do not want the Zodiac case to be solved. "They" want it to go on forever. "They" want to be able to keep pushing "their" noisy little barrow, and loading it with more and more disinformation and BS. But I guess, "they" are not the only ones doing this throughout Zodiac Land. At least the internet is a big place so many of the more informed can find some refuge away from all "their" noise and mayhem.

THE ZODIAC KILLER'S THIRD PHONE CALL

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