ZODIAC CIPHERS
Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
  • Home
    • Search This Site With Google
    • My Interview on the Zodiac Killer Channel
    • The Mount Diablo Map and Code Solution
  • Zodiac News
    • Zodiac News Archives
    • Santa Barbara Attack
    • Cheri Jo Bates
    • The Confession
    • Riverside Desktop Poem
    • Bates Letter
    • The Forgotten Victims
    • Zodiac RSS Feed
    • Welsh Chappie - Zodiac News
  • Lake Herman Murders
    • Blue Rock Springs Attack
    • Vallejo Times Letter
    • Examiner Letter
    • Chronicle Letter
    • Complete 408 Cipher
    • Vallejo and Benicia Map
    • Kathie Snoozy and Debra Furlong Murders
    • Debut of Zodiac Letter
  • Lake Berryessa Attack
    • Presidio Heights Attack
    • Call to Chat Show
  • 340 Cipher
    • Bus Bomb Letter
    • Betsy Aardsma Murder
    • The Fairfield Letter
    • Melvin Belli Letter
    • Santa Barbara Murders 1970
    • Modesto Attack
    • My Name is Cipher
    • Dragon Card and Button Letter >
      • Phillips Road Map
    • The Sleeping Bag Murders
    • The Little List Letter
  • The Halloween Card
    • Lake Tahoe Disappearance
    • Los Angeles Times Letter
    • The Monticello Card
    • The Exorcist Letter
  • SLA Letter
    • Red Phantom Letter/American Greetings Card
    • The 1978 Letter
    • Zodiac Letters Real or Fake
    • Zodiac Documentary
    • Zodiac Killer Net Forum - Hot Topics
    • Unsolved Mysteries
    • The Colonial Parkway Murders
  • Suspects
    • Arthur Leigh Allen
    • Rick Marshall
    • Lawrence Kane
    • Theodore Kaczynski
    • Richard Gaikowski
    • Gareth Penn
    • Jack Tarrance

THE "SMOKING GUN"

9/3/2017

 
Picture
This is a continuation from the article 'The Fictitious Negro Male' examining the crucial 40 minutes after the Blue Rock Springs Park shooting of Michael Mageau (19) and Darlene Ferrin (22) on July 4th 1969, which left Michael Mageau fighting for his life and Darlene Ferrin dead from five direct gunshot wounds. The killer would place a payphone call from the intersection of Springs Road and Tuolumne Street at 12:40 am, only 40 minutes after the attack in the parking lot.

​Exactly one month after the double shooting, the murderer mailed the 'Debut of Zodiac' letter to the San Francisco Examiner, received on August 4th 1969. It is in this introductory letter that the killer may have inadvertently revealed the area in which he lived. Many may not share my optimism, but any assistance anybody can offer in terms of material or research regarding this matter would be greatly appreciated. I am looking for 1969 land registry records, phone books or directories that contain names and addresses of individuals who lived in a 10-15 minute walking radius of the payphone at the Springs and Tuolumne intersection. This is what the Zodiac Killer stated in the 'Debut of Zodiac' letter:
"
I did not leave the cene of the killing with squealling tires + raceing engine as described in the Vallejo paper. I drove away quite slowly so as not to draw attention to my car. The man who told police that my car was brown was a negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed. I was in this phone booth having some fun with the Vallejo cop when he was walking by. When I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car".

After Michael Mageau had been shot he recalled exiting Darlene Ferrin's brown Corvair and lying alongside the vehicle, giving a rudimentary description of the assailant's vehicle as it pulled out of the parking lot at Blue Rock Springs. The killer adamantly denied leaving the scene "with squealling tires + raceing engine as described in the Vallejo paper," insisting he didn't want to draw attention to his vehicle and in direct contrast to the message the letter appeared to be pushing by the payphone. On leaving the crime scene he was now in possession of the 'smoking gun', and the wise choice may well have been to offload his weapon and vehicle at his residence and walk to the payphone, thereby carrying much less risk. He knew Mageau or Ferrin would unlikely be able to give a reliable facial description because of the tactics he employed, in particular the flashlight he used to blind the victims, however, his vehicle was not afforded the same protection as he exited the parking lot - and something he was infinitely aware of. He seemed confident during his phone call that he was reporting a "double murder", but whether or not he contemplated that Michael Mageau may still alive and this was just the statement of a braggart, is open to question. 

Picture
In the 'Debut of Zodiac' letter the killer seemingly goes out of his way to feature the payphone call, highlighting a negro male that spotted him after he hung up the receiver. This negro male was never mentioned in the extensive 75-page police report, or by any investigators connected with the case. The negro male also never featured in any newspaper articles up to the August 4th 1969 letter. This was called out in the Vallejo News Chronicle on Monday August 4th 1969, which stated "The car's description was given to police by Mageau, not a phone call witness, as related in the letter. However, there could have been such a witness near the phone booth".
 

Whether the police had identified a negro male eyewitness or not, it appeared that Zodiac wanted to capitalize on the fact he was spotted, by going into unnecessary detail on the man's age and attire, stating "The man who told police that my car was brown was a negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed". Having effectively agreed that his vehicle was brown, he went on to highlight his vehicle once more: "When I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car".  The Zodiac Killer seemed intent on corroborating the description of his vehicle by Michael Mageau, by backing it up with the negro male eyewitness who saw exactly the same color of vehicle. This is particularly helpful on behalf of the killer, unless of course he was pushing a false narrative and the negro male eyewitness didn't exist - and his vehicle wasn't brown. In addition, the phrase "When I hung the phone up the damn thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car" is particularly telling, unnecessarily adding "my car" at the end. We already know he had a vehicle because the negro male had apparently identified it as brown. The superfluous addition of this content may very well be deliberate, to convince the reader the killer had pulled up to the Springs and Tuolumne payphone after the double shooting and placed the phone call with his vehicle in tow, when in fact he was on foot. We know he didn't drive directly to the payphone, because the payphone is situated only 10 minutes from the Blue Rock Springs parking lot, yet the phone call was logged 40 minutes after the attack.      

Picture
The phone call could have been made from anywhere, rather than alongside Springs Road, a prominent route traversing the crime scene and downtown Vallejo, in close proximity to the police station. However, the killer chose to remain in the vicinity at least 30 minutes beyond what was necessary. That is, unless he lived nearby and chose to remove his vehicle and weapon from his person, before making what was seemingly a predetermined decision to announce himself to the world.

A killer choosing to drive from Blue Rock Springs Park to somewhere within a 10-15 minute walking radius of the payphone would take 10 minutes. With 15 minutes to park his vehicle, change his attire, conceal his weapon and ready himself, would leave approximately 15 minutes to walk to the payphone with his imaginary "brown car" in tow and make the phone call to police dispatcher Nancy Slover. The premise of 10-15 minutes walking time is based on the killer applying a 'buffer zone' to his residence. He clearly didn't want to place a call in extremely close proximity to where he lived, but would also be constrained by his wanting to return to his residence in reasonable time after placing the call. Hence the estimate of 10-15 minutes as a starting point.
 
After the Lake Herman Road murders it was intimated by Officer Pierre Bidou that a crank call was received shortly after the killings, referring to a 'car accident' along that particular stretch of road. Had this been the Zodiac Killer, it would had to have been placed just prior to the official police message called in by Captain Daniel Pitta shortly after 11:25 pm. If the killer of David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen had again placed the phone call at the Springs and Tuolumne intersection, then this 10-12 minute journey would have him leaving the turnout at the correct time based on the eyewitness accounts that night. However, by making this phone call before returning home, could have been indicative of a man confident he left no victims alive in this case, in contrast to Michael Mageau, who had extricated himself from the vehicle. This would certainly elevate the payphone's significance as a common denominator over the first two Zodiac crimes and dispel the idea the Zodiac waited 6 1/2 months before contacting the police, if it were true.

Picture
The Zodiac's exasperation in the letter seemingly implied a familiarity with the area of Lake Herman Road, stating "Last Christmass In that epasode the police were wondering how I could shoot + hit my victims in the dark. They did not openly state this, but implied this by saying it was a well lit night + I could see silowets on the horizon. Bullshit that area is srounded by high hills + trees".
His compass directions from the Springs and Tuolumne payphone and/or the police station also showed familiarity with his location at this intersection. He knew the Blue Rock Springs parking lot was east of his location and situated alongside Columbus Parkway. This is what he actually said to police dispatcher Nancy Slover with the all important pause or comma inserted into the dialogue, that changes the whole context of the phone call: "I wish to report a double murder.  If you will go one mile east...... On Columbus Parkway to a public park, you will find the kids in a brown car. They have been shot by a 9 mm Luger. I also killed those kids last year.... Good-bye." Unless the killer had prepared in advance by looking at a map, his directional knowledge of his immediate surroundings only 40 minutes after the attack was correct. Had he driven to a location unknown to him, the likelihood of him knowing his relative position to the crime scene using compass markers would be highly unlikely. Additionally, his targeting of lone courting couples may also suggest an intrinsic knowledge of his hunting ground. 

There appears little or no benefit in making an incriminating phone call, claiming four murders from a payphone only 10 minutes from the crime scene, when the killer could have been 40 minutes away at this point, placing the call in a region of relative security. The fact that he traveled so little distance in 40 minutes, meant he did something else for a large percentage of this time - and may well imply a connection to the area. Cross-referencing names of residents (within the 15 minute walking radius) in 1969 with ancestry records, may turn up individuals who previously resided in Riverside in 1966 during the murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30th, or possibly other key locations. If anybody can provide assistance in this search it would be greatly appreciated.  

http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-fictitious-negro-male
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/a-white-chevrolet-impala-at-blue-rock-springs

Picture
Rubislaw 32 link
9/23/2017 05:05:25 pm

You make a good case for Zodiac's residency,being in close proximity of the Lake Herman Road shootings,Richard.

I have always been persuaded of this,but,more to the point,with your explanations,it focuses on the detailing of Zodiac's letters,which often give more away,than can initially be assessed,on a single inspection [?].

Another example of this,I might venture,is Zodiac's ''prompt'' letter to the SF Chronicle,following the murder of Paul Stine :

''I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St. and Maple St. last night.....''

And :

''The S.F.Police could have caught me last night....''

That repetition of ''last night'' just doesn't sit right,for someone,who clearly desired to come across as almost ''nonchalant'',about the whole episode of executing someone [?].

''Immediacy'' was in Zodiac's mind,but the ''last night'' repetition pours doubt on the truth of his claim of having hung around in the park,to witness police carrying out a search.

The primary purpose of Zodiac's choice of location,to enact murder,was its proximity to the Golden Gate bridge,and a speedy means of escaping the jurisdiction of the S.F.P.D.,as well as simply removing himself from the headland,that represented the city of San Francisco.

Beyond this,a theory is that Zodiac would hear news of the Stine aftermath,from a ''chatterbox'' colleague,at work,first thing,on the Monday morning.

It actually took Toschi and Armstrong,about 75 minutes to arrive at the murder scene.And in this interim period,Toschi was radioing to anyone,police related,to keep the public away from the taxi cab.He knew that crowds would gather,to at least two hundred [!].

Perhaps including,Zodiac's work ''chatterbox''.....who probably relayed ''embellished'' reportage to Zodiac,on the Monday morning [?][!].

Regards

Rubislaw 32

Richard
9/24/2017 07:21:58 am

"The primary purpose of Zodiac's choice of location,to enact murder,was its proximity to the Golden Gate bridge,and a speedy means of escaping the jurisdiction of the S.F.P.D.,as well as simply removing himself from the headland,that represented the city of San Francisco."
Couldn't agree more with this statement - The Golden Gate Bridge provided the separation from San Francisco within minutes of the crime. At this moment I cannot unfortunately disagree with myself, having written several articles why I believe Zodiac definitely entered the park, not least the article in the San Francisco Chronicle on October 12th 1969. I do believe however he didn't 'hang around' and was in near constant travel eastwards, as the dogs congregated west and south to sweep the park. His Bus Bomb letter was like a GPS tracking system, I believe bringing him out in Cow Hollow by Highway 101, a direct route out of San Francisco over the Golden Gate Bridge, back to Vallejo. David Toschi believed this too. But certainly I don't think he just sat in the park for any prolonged period, probably a handful of minutes.
''I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St. and Maple St. last night.....'' This suggests a response to the Oct 12th article and possibly incited "the kiddies"angle. I don't believe he "hung around" the park, but he certainly took longer in the taxicab than was ultimately required.

Rubislaw 32 link
9/24/2017 08:35:24 am

Good to hear a positive response,Richard.

Many aren't prepared to look at the Stine murder,with an overview [?].Not getting caught,was No.1 priority.

I believe that the execution of a city taxi driver,was a ''Tour de Force'',in planning.

This would have included knowledge,that the S.F.P.D. held jurisdiction to the far end of the bridge.A line drawn,in the planning,for timings,in ability ''to'' abscond [?].

It looks likely that Zodiac entered the park,with a view to ''exit'',ASAP.
A ''covered'' short cut,to get to his car.....possibly Richardson Avenue [?].

''Road Blocks'',in general,might have been a concern for Zodiac,so,heading North,beyond the Golden Gate,would have seen Zodiac eventually returning ''home'',from a direction,that could always have been construed,as ''not'' having started,from SF [?].

Also,his letter didn't arrive at the Chronicle offices,until Tuesday,second delivery.....meaning he posted it,sometime on Monday......at least 36 hours,after Stine's murder.

Regards

Rubislaw 32

Richard
9/24/2017 12:45:34 pm

This is exactly what I believe happened that night Rubislaw.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/presidio-heights-minute-by-minute

Richard
9/24/2017 01:25:07 pm

To me Rubislaw the question that needs answering is that Zodiac clearly needed a quick escape once he fled the park. Wandering around San Francisco (presuming he didn't live there) on foot after a murder, holding a gun and swatch of bloodied shirt is not a sensible choice. Let us assume he had his vehicle parked by Richardson Avenue for a quick escape over Golden Gate Bridge. This is a 1 hour walk or 3 mile journey to Union Square, where he entered the taxicab. I am not really concerned how he got there, moreover why he decided to flag a taxicab, or use the payphone by the Westin St Francis (depending on which version you believe). What significance did this area hold, and what were his reasons for selecting this area. Leaving his vehicle 3 miles away portrayed a man with premeditated murder in mind, otherwise you wouldn't 'abandon' your vehicle at a distant location. His journey to Washington and Cherry applied a reasonable buffer zone to the park and his vehicle. The park and bridge both created a separation for the killer, indicating his crime was well thought out in advance. But why the theater district as his starting point that night. Had he visited the theatre with a show finishing time of 9.30-9.40 pm, to then enable him to order a taxicab and be at Washington and Cherry circa 9.52-9.55 pm. If not the theater, then what was the reasoning for selecting this area. A third buffer zone, or surroundings he was particularly comfortable or familiar with. Your thoughts.

Rubislaw 32 link
9/24/2017 03:46:12 pm

Some interesting thoughts,put forward,from you,Richard.

Thanks for your reference,on your ''minute by minute''.....which I shall read and digest,before offering up,anything further.

I certainly have a few more thoughts,of my own.

I rarely discuss the Stine murder,since I tire of the ''same old'' discourse,amounting to a police blame game......and,what might have been,had the ''horse'' not bolted [!].

Look forward to it.....back with you soon.

Rubislaw 32 link
9/26/2017 04:19:38 am

Hi Richard

I enjoyed your Presidio ''minute by minute'' article....very well constructed.

It brings to life,what was probably taking place,in the minutes,following Paul Stine's murder.I am certainly persuaded that this is an accurate account.

We know that Zodiac's departure from the crime scene,was not ''plain sailing'',but you have illustrated well,the ''sometime'' ducking and diving,that Zodiac required,before ultimately making a successful ''disappearance''.

The focusing on the ''barrier'' or ''buffer'' zone,needed to be highlighted.In effect,the park represented an increased chance,of ultimate getaway,for Zodiac.

Zodiac clearly had a sense of which direction that initial police response,would come from....and this had influenced his selection of a suitable ''harbour'',for his car.

My particular interest,in the crime of Paul Stine's murder,lies more in the steps that Zodiac took,in his planning,and,as I may have already inferred,there was more to it,than most might realize.

Indeed,the start of Zodiac's ''day'',was simple enough.He had already decided on suitable candidate berths,to park his car.And had elected to walk the distance,to the Theatre District.Quite probably,to take in a show,relax,and decide if ''today'' was the day that he would enact this crime.He knew that he could always have aborted.....but near the end of the show,he had made his mind up,that he was going through,with his plan.

I will pick this up again,soon.I do believe that another ''event'',took place,between Zodiac securing his taxi lift,and Stine receiving a bullet,to his head.The ''event'' explains much of Zodiac's pilfering and general ''spring cleaning'' activities,before his leaving of the crime scene.

Regards

Rubislaw 32

Rubislaw 32 link
9/28/2017 01:10:37 am

On the basis of Zodiac's front passenger seat position,his removal of Paul Stine's wallet,and his wiping down of potential latent prints,it becomes apparent,what exactly transpired,between Zodiac hailing his lift,and ''events'',at Washington and Cherry.

This,coupled with a suspect,known only,at the time as ''Robert''.And,a small matter,of explaining away,details that emerged,on Stine's trip sheet.

Confused ? I am not commenting,in order to write one of those overly long and ''confusing'' discourses.But if anyone has a question,feel free to ask of me.Curiosity will be rewarded.

Suffice to add that,beyond the tragedy of Paul Stine's death,Zodiac's perverse ''project'',reaped greater satisfaction,for Zodiac,than most are aware.

Law Enforcement in general,and the S.F.P.D. in particular,got ''well humped'' that day,and Zodiac would figuratively ''dine out'',on this,for a long time to come.

For ''The Cipher Slayer'',this was his ''finest hour'' [!].

Richard
9/28/2017 02:20:35 am

Are you referring to Robert E Hunter, who supposedly lived at the corner of Washington and Maple, at 3799 Washington St, and possibly got into an 'altercation' with Paul Stine. The murder occurring at Washington and Maple (hence no shot heard by the three teenagers), then gained control of the pedals to shift the crime scene effectively one block west. Then we have the shirt piece? Am I on the right track.
Ed Neill "Another thing is, how is it that a presumably middle-class teamster and gardener were able to afford to live in a house in a very wealthy part of town after the previous owner died? It's impossible to say at the moment, so I won't venture to guess, but it turns out that Hunter did not live at 3799 Washington Street when Paul Stine was murdered; that much is absolutely certain. I'm not certain how much more research into this is warranted, however, but it certainly is odd that the Schiantarellis lived there for as long as 2 years unknown to researchers, just before another man who would later become a Z suspect did." He continued "A little followup on Hunter and the Schiantarellis: Robert E. Hunter Jr. and his wife Sylvia first show up in the SF Polk's directory in 1951, meaning they had moved there sometime in 1950. They lived at 2867 Green St, and he was a clerk at Crocker First National Bank. In 1952, they moved to 3765 Jackson Street, literally just around the corner from where Paul Stine would be shot by Z 17 years later; by that time, Hunter was an assistant cashier for Crocker Bank. It's interesting to note that one of the places that Robert Graysmith claims Foukes and Zelms spotted Z in front of is 3769 Jackson, immediately next door to Hunter's old digs"

Rubislaw 32 link
9/28/2017 03:02:07 am

Hi Richard

If I might venture,two elements to your reply,amount to inaccurate supposition.But do hang in there,if you want the ''whole bang shoot'',from me.

Firstly,Zodiac did murder Stine,at Washington and Cherry,and at the point,where Stine's cab came to rest.

Secondly,Robert Hunter had nothing to do with anything....nor was ever considered a realistic suspect....nor at any time over the period of Zodiac's San Francisco reign of terror.That he may have been considered,for a proverbial nanosecond,is possible.....but it does not help,to even mention him.

The penny dropping for the S.F.P.D.,over Stine's murder specifically,came about,when they ''married'' details on Stine's trip sheet,with events that occurred,on the day that The SF Chronicle published the Hardens' solution to Zodiac's ''408'' cipher.

Indeed,the trip sheet has never been made public,but piecing together the primary ''event'',which took place a few minutes before Stine's execution,indicates overwhelming ''evidence'',of what was,in effect,the detail on the trip sheet,just below ''Washington and Maple''.

That detail was ''345 Hyde Street''.

Richard
9/28/2017 04:04:33 am

In terms of Robert H Coon and his initial destination to 345 Hyde Street, there were reporters indicating that Zodiac had been picked up at Nob Hill/Fairmont Hotel, only one mile northeast of this location. Certainly 345 Hyde Street is en route, by Highway 101, the route Stine would have taken from the Airport to Union Square. Had Robert H Coon effectively taken a taxicab to his residence, which was noted in the trip sheet, then had, in effect lured him to the Washington and Cherry intersection to execute him wouldn't that be an incredible own goal on his part. Unless he didn't expect Stine to enter the pick-up point. If the killer had placed a call from a payphone in Union Square or flagged down Paul Stine, why would he direct Stine to his residence to then switch toward a Washington and Cherry murder. It would sound like a snap decision, rather than a calculated, premeditated murder on his behalf. Stripping it back the basics, there must be another reason why Robert H Coon and 345 Hyde Street came to the fore, other than his name comparison, because otherwise there would be little justification for this line of inquiry. Can you expand on why this is a person of interest Rubislaw.
Without seeing the trip sheet there is no possible way of ever verifying if anything was written atop or underneath Washington and Maple, and unfortunately I doubt this trip sheet will ever see the light of day beyond a dust filled cabinet at SFPD headquarters.

Rubislaw 32 link
9/28/2017 05:13:55 am

I appreciate you hanging in there,with me,Richard.....and I will do the best that I can,to account for a multitude of ''little things'',that happened,in those precious few minutes,leading up to Stine's murder.

Just now,the Robert H Coon,is the ''Robert'',whom the S.F.P.D. did have as a suspect [.....and not Mr.Hunter....],but as became apparent,in the days following Stine's murder,he became,all but eliminated from their enquiries.

Indeed,Robert H Coon....mystic visionary,who resided at 345 Hyde Street,played no physical part,nor had any physical presence on the evening in question.

Before I return to the Theatre District,where Zodiac's ''project'' started,just a few words on ''Washington''.

Stine and Zodiac,both in the front of Stine's cab,would have pulled over,by ''Maple''.....but for a ''man and his dog'' out for the evening.Presumably ''Mr.X'' and a Dalmation.Zodiac beckoned Stine,to drive on,and a further block,as it happens....since Zodiac perceived this section of pavement,to be ''pedestrian free''.

The police's interest in Mr.X,was not because he may have been Stine's perpetrator.....but because he may have been a ''signaller'',for Zodiac,and therefore in collusion with Stine's killer.

You are right about the trip sheet's unlikelyhood,of public inspection.But,given what actually took place,in the journey,between the Theatre District and the Presidio vicinty,I am confident of the 345 Hyde Street entry,and the part that it played,in Stine's fate.

Rubislaw 32 link
9/28/2017 08:27:14 am

It is of interest,that you make mention of the Fairmont Hotel,Richard.That is the first that I have heard,of this establishment,entering the lore.I have also heard of reportage,with respect to the Westin St.Francis Hotel,closer to the hub of the Theatre District.

But my understanding is that Zodiac,himself did not place a call.Any calls reported,in connection to this whole incident,are believed to have been,in relation a request of a taxi,that initiated a positive response,from Paul Stine.....who then aborted,in favour of picking ''Zodiac'' up,on spec around Union Square,and more than probably,as part of the first wave of ''audience spillage'',as the curtains were beginning to fall on the evening's performances.

I suppose it is difficult to tell a story about a series of events,without a ''defined'' beginning [!].....but it hasn't stopped Graysmith,and others.

I tend to go with the ''audience spillage''.This was precisely the beginning of the busiest two hours of a cabbie's week.The cabs would congregate,like shark,at teatime....and it appears to be the time and the place,when Zodiac would slip into the back of a cab,and succinctly offer a destination,when the driver's main attention would be focused on extricating his vehicle from the bumper to bumper ''yellow sea''.

And so it was,I believe,that the chauffeur driven Zodiac,made his way,via Mason Street and Eddy Street,on to Hyde Street,having offered Stine apologies,that his requested journey was short [a half mile].Perhaps Zodiac feigned an ankle injury [?].But Stine was not overly concerned and,parking by 345,had the nose of his cab pointing down towards Geary Street,and a quick return for some non-stop custom.

Zodiac paid Stine the requested amount for the ride,and got out of the vehicle on Stine's,and the pavement's side.As Stine made the entry,on his trip sheet,Zodiac taps on Stine's window.It's a well rehearsed and precise excuse about wanting to visit a friend,in Washington Street.Zodiac isn't sure of exact address,but would recognize the residence,by sight.

Zodiac carefully starts flashing a $20 dollar bill,as places his trust in Stine's good nature....and a '' quick earner''.

It goes ''swimmingly'',and Zodiac now slips around the cab,to enter the front passenger seat,at Stine's insistence.Stine decides to enter ''Washington and Maple'' on the trip sheet,and they are on their way.

When Paul Stine accepted Zodiac's $20 bill,his fate was sealed.Zodiac was now the ''piper'' that could call the tune.Zodiac could pretend to be looking for his ''friend's'' residence,when he was actually looking for a pedestrian-free section of pavement,in order that Stine should pull over.

Zodiac,most importantly,now had the ''clear shot'' at Stine's right temple.

Rubislaw 32 link
9/28/2017 10:58:51 am

As you have enquired,Richard,how is it that Robert H Coon,came so much to the fore.And his residence being paid a visit,by Zodiac and Stine,on the evening,in question [?].

For Zodiac,it wasn't just about,securing a ''front seat'' position,and psychological ascendancy.

Robert H Coon had recently moved,from Colorado,to be in San Francisco,for ''The Happening'',and earn his living as a mystic visionary.Coon was preaching the doctrine of the Glastonbury Zodiac,which had a bit of UFO-ology and Christianity entwined.Indeed,he was advocating the twelve signs of the Zodiac,equating to the twelve days of Christmas.

So,one can imagine the interest of the Vallejo Police started to have in Mr.Coon when it was ''clocked'',that a Robert H Coon had apparently phoned them on 10th August 1969 - the day of the Hardens' ''408'' solution being published in the SF Chronicle - with a proposed solution to the final 18 symbols of the cipher.

''THE TIP I'M ROBERT E EEEE''.....with a ''supposed'' Mr.Coon suggesting to Officer Bawart of the Vallejo Police,that the surname might be ''FORESE'' or ''FOURIES'' [!].

No doubt,when questioned,Robert H Coon denied any knowledge of having made that phone call....but,because of his ''mystical'' philosophical connections,remained a suspect ''under review''.

Now,we move forward to October 11th,and the S.F.P.D.have the murder of taxi driver [Stine],to solve.One of their priorities,is to go through Stine's trip sheet,and interview all of Stine's recent customers.

So,it is not long,before the S.F.P.D. find a Mr.Robert H Coon,as resident of this 345 Hyde Street entry in Stine's trip sheet.

Perhaps,through Coon's complaint that he has already been interviewed by the Vallejo Police,that the penny drops [?].

Zodiac was the hoax caller on August 10th,and Zodiac was the murderer of Paul Stine,on October 11th.

The ''sting in the tail'',as becomes apparent.....Zodiac's little detour,before actual ''engagement'' at Washington and Cherry,was to deliver a ''delayed reaction'' joke,at the S.F.P.D.'s expense !

Richard
9/29/2017 12:23:46 am

Without having ever seen the trip sheet, as nobody else has, other than law enforcement, I couldn't begin to speculate on the entries on the log. The same with the August 10th phone call apparently made by Robert H Coon. I personally have never read or discovered anything on the identity of the said caller, so it would be guess work to add anything realistic to this information. Alex Lewis secured the full 120 page 'Hines report' in which Hines recalls a conversation with Inspector Dave Toschi "In looking at an area map of San Francisco, I found 217 Eddy Street appeared to only be two to three blocks from where Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac on October 11, 1969. I then called Inspector Dave Toschi at the SFPD and got more details on the Stine Killing. Toschi said that they had determined that the killer had called for a cab using the public payphone located at Union Square. Toschi said the cab then picked the killer up and drove to the corner of Washington and Cherry Streets."
This concurs with one Graysmith claim of a Westin St Francis pick up point, leading me to conclude its likely Zodiac entered the taxicab close to this hotel in Union Square. I agree it's very likely Zodiac was probably one of the 'spillage' you describe, from the theatre. With little evidence to back this up, he did however seemingly choose the theatre district as his starting point, and a 9.30 pm show end, tallies with the taxicab arriving at Washington and Cherry circa 9.50-9.55 pm. Without proof however, that is yet forthcoming, it is impossible for me to consider anything else but a direct journey from Union Square to Washington and Cherry. The likely answer for the taxicab being found one block west of the trip sheet entry, is likely down to the ultimate act of what transpired, there were likely a person or persons milling around or present on that intersection, forcing the killer one block further than intended. This is clearly evident, because the killer after murdering Stine backtracked along Jackson Street to Jackson and Maple, a direct line from Washington St. The murderer of Paul Stine, I believe, simply had to travel one block further because of eyewitnesses on the corner. This cements to me the validity of the Washington and Maple entry. 345 Hyde Street, I cannot use the same logic for, and therefore I cannot be any assistance in this matter. You clearly have your strong suspicions Rubislaw, based on the aforementioned entries, but without the vital trip sheet, or irrefutable evidence the August 10th call was Robert H Coon, I am unable to join the ride on this one. Sorry about the pun. If you can supply me with additional info, or officer statements to the effect of identifying the above individual it would help.
I am going to disappoint you now Rubislaw, and totally disagree with the passenger in Paul Stine's taxicab ever travelling in the front seat during the journey towards Washington and Cherry. Firstly because none of the three teenagers ever saw the taxicab as it pulled up, only the ensuing 'commotion.' But the primary reason is the A-Z street map, that fell onto the roadside edge when Paul Stine's body was extricated from the vehicle by medical personnel. This was likely on the seat, next to Stine during his journey. When Stine fell to the right side of the taxicab after being shot, or pulled across by Zodiac, his body would have rested over the A-Z. When Stine was then pulled across the seat to remove him from the cab, the street guide was dragged across and out of the cab. In the photographs of the crime scene with Stine hanging out the cab, no street guide on the roadside. The photographs subsequently without Stine, the map is on the floor. Had somebody rode in the front seat with Stine, then Stine would have picked the street guide up and placed it away. The passenger certainly wouldn't have sat on it during the journey, leaving it in a position to be dragged out when medical assistance arrived. Cheers Rubislaw, nice 'chatting'.

Rubislaw 32 link
9/29/2017 02:46:22 am

Thanks for taking the interest and time,over a critique,on some of my comments,Richard.

I think that,in order to solve some of the little mysteries in the detail,it is always important to work,from the point of murder and Zodiac leaving the crime scene,backwards.

All the time that many spend,invested in Zodiac's ''getaway'',is largely wasted,in providing further clues about Zodiac,or solving the single crime of a city taxi driver [?].

It's the details in the ''coup de grace'',and Zodiac's seemingly ''eccentric'' actions,before absconding,that get me everytime.Why remove the wallet [.....take back a bill,with fingerprints...] [?].Why wipe parts of the cab down [.....previous physical manoeuvres....] [?].

Only by attempting to fill in details,between Zodiac securing his lift,and Stine's actual death,can we find the answers [?].

And I simply don't buy the notion that the taxi ride,was uninterrupted.It doesn't provide enough answers to events at Washington and Cherry.

But yes,it is certainly possible that Zodiac murdered Stine,from the back seat.....but fraught with problems,unless Zodiac simply intended to shoot Stine,in the back of the head [?].

Stine received a point blank bullet to precisely his right temple,and in the split second of Zodiac pulling the trigger,had attempted to parry off the gun,with his left hand....which showed signs of gunpowder residue.

This recorded scenario,is not indicative of the perpetrator attempting murder,from the back seat.

Your's is a good site for debating,and your articles are extremely well presented,and researched.

Thanks again...your crime scene analyses are unrivalled.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/2/2017 05:52:48 am

Hi Richard

You had made an enquiry about the phone call,received by the Vallejo Police on August 10th,the day of the Hardens' ''408'' solution,being published,by the SF Chronicle.....who had notified the Vallejo Police,in advance.

I thought that you might wish it,for your records [?].

Not that it necessarily influenced events on the evening of October 11th.But naturally,I find it persuading [!].

When first made public,Robert H.Coon's name was redacted,from this report entry.But,in subsequent years,his name was admitted.

No doubt,with Mr.Coon's permission.Perhaps,he thought it good for business [?][!].

8-10-69 1:40 PM Call received from Robert H.Coon 345 Hyde St San Francisco who stated he decoded the remaining portion of the cipher as follows : THE TIP I'M ROBERT E EEEE. Coon feels that the four E's may stand for a name such as FORESE or FOURIES.[Bawart].

Clearly,the Vallejo Police,were later satisfied that Mr.Coon,himself,was not the caller.A hoax caller had used Mr.Coon's name.

The question is,was the hoax caller,''Zodiac'' ? And,did Zodiac employ Mr.Coon's address,as part of a plan,that involved playing a prank,at the SF Police's expense,as well as securing front passenger position,in Paul Stine's cab [?].

Richard
10/2/2017 07:01:46 am

In the FBI files dated 14th August 1969 it states "Enclosed herewith is an envelope bearing postmark San Francisco, California 08/10/69 addressed to Sergeant (redacted), Vallejo Police Department, Vallejo, California enclosing a 3 X 5 card bearing a typewritten note, beginning with Dear Sgt and ending with "concerned citizen". Also enclosed is a key."
Where is the redacted version of the "8-10-69 1:40 PM Call received from Robert H.Coon 345 Hyde St San Francisco who stated he decoded the remaining portion of the cipher as follows : THE TIP I'M ROBERT E EEEE. Coon feels that the four E's may stand for a name such as FORESE or FOURIES".[Bawart].
I have never laid eyes on this redacted version, can you point me in the right direction Rubislaw. Is it something you have secured and wish to keep private, or have I overlooked it in the FBI files or elsewhere. Cheers, Richard.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/2/2017 07:32:23 am

Hi Richard

When I first started researching this,possibly ''telling'' aspect of the Stine murder case,I came across,the Vallejo Police entry,''with'' Mr. Coon's personal details,as I have written,and to which you refer.

So,it was quite a surprise to come across the ''redacted'' version,which I believe ''exists'' at ''zodiackillersite''....and may even have been posted by the site's creator,Mike Morford.

I will have to check....it's possible that it may have been posted,on another site [Mr,Voight's [?].].

Perhaps,between us,we will get to the bottom of it [?].

Though,''conjecture'' granted,I can't help substituting Zodiac,for Basil Fawlty,and the SF Police,for the ''German guests''.

''The trouble with you lot is,that you have no sense of humour'' [?][!].

Zodiac's games with LE,run far deeper,than we have been made privy to,to date.

I suspect that when Zodiac wrote about rubbing ''their'' noses in it,it was a broader based boast,than we have yet to realise [?].

Richard
10/2/2017 08:50:00 am

I will try and find out.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/2/2017 08:53:04 am

Hi again,Richard

I may have solved the riddle of differing versions of the Vallejo Police report entry.....but,if you can shed further light,it would be interesting to hear.

A collection of police reports has been compiled by ''C.Symons'',in his book ''Solving the Zodiac''.And,at the top of page 180,he has presented the report entry....faithfully,I believe.

8-10-69 1:40 PM Call received from a Robert H. XXXX 345 XXX St San Francisco who stated he decoded the remaining portion of the cipher as follows : THE TIP I'M ROBERT E EEEE. COON feels that the four E's may stand for a name such as FORESE or FOURIES.[Bawart]

Now,in examining this version,it is all too clear that the first mention of ''Coon'',and ''Hyde'',have been redacted.

However...it appears apparent that the original typist has,inadvertently,written the name ''COON''.....as if it were an extension of the solution offered [?].

Naturally,we are not privy,to the exact circumstances,that has lead to the report entry,being changed from a ''botched up'' redacted version,to the ''open'' version,available to us,now [?].

Perhaps,Mr.Coon registered a complaint....but since the original ''botched'' version,only disguised ''Hyde'',it was decided to put all details public,with apologies to Mr.Coon,and his permission [?].

Yes,Richard,I note the ''concerned citizen'' missive.My feelings are,that that was from Zodiac,also.

August 10th represented a day of humiliation,for Zodiac.His ''408'' had been swiftly solved by a couple of amateurs....and the solution didn't look that impressive,or frightening,in the cold light of a printed newspaper [?].

Zodiac was desperate to re-claim some pride....which,of course,tends to come with an ugly head [!].

Rubislaw 32 link
10/2/2017 11:06:15 am

It has occurred to me,Richard

August 10th,was not only the day of the SF Chronicle's ''expose'' on the ''408'' solution.

News would have been filtering through,via radio and T.V.,that Sharon Tate and her guests had been brutally murdered.

And the worst was not over,with the ''La Biancas'',to come,that very day.

Zodiac must have felt that he had been hit by a ''whirlwind'' [?].

At the very least,he faced being blown off the newspapers,and for a long time to come.

Perhaps,that might have influenced him,in coming up with a ''theatrical'' project,for Lake Berryessa....and ''cunning fox'' approach,to a ''city enactment'' [?].

Richard
10/2/2017 11:29:15 am

That is certainly possible Rubislaw, his last two confirmed attacks certainly became more daring. The actions of certain newspapers may also have inspired him, by suggesting his primary focus was the women thus far, possibly resulting in the attack on Paul Stine. On October 18th 1969 he ran a piece in the San Francisco Chronicle describing the Zodiac Killer as a 'latent homosexual'- although not proven, the two 'attacks' widely touted after this comment, were the Kathleen Johns and Donna Lass abductions. Let us hope his intention in both cases wasn't what this article could have created. Thanks for the extra information. I have contacted Mike Morford to see if he has any supplementary information regarding this matter.

Richard
10/3/2017 03:29:30 pm

Still waiting. I shall return.

Richard
10/5/2017 01:44:17 am

Here is a thread on Robert H Coon on Zodiac Killer Site
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=1797
The 345 Hyde Street and name are in the BRS police report. Never noticed it before.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/5/2017 02:51:49 am

Thanks Richard

I have re-viewed any relevant comments made.

Also,looked again,at Mr.Coon.

He has written a number of books,over the years,and most recently,published in 2008,under the name,simply as ''Robert Coon''.

Mr.Coon picked up on the original philosophy of the ''Glastonbury Zodiac'',from Karen Maltwood,in the 1930's.This includes the Christmas angle to the signs of the Zodiac.

Perfect ''impersonation'' and ''baiting'' material for Zodiac's use [!].










Rubislaw 32 link
10/5/2017 11:37:14 am

A minor correction to be made to the previous post :

It was ''Katharine Maltwood'' who first offered up the ''Glastonbury Zodiac'' philosophical concept.

Ms.Maltwood was a successful English Painter and Sculptor,who started to take an interest in mysticism,when her husband bought a ''country pile'' in Somerset.

She died in 1961,and Robert H.Coon began adopting many of her ideas.

The inference,with respect to Zodiac's ''abuse'' of that mantle,started with Officer Bawart....that Bawart did not recognize that the caller was suggesting the famous general,''Robert E,Lee''.....and further to this,that the only recognizable surname,might have been ''Fourie''.

Then,the inevitable check on Mr.Coon,by the Vallejo Police,only to find that Coon's denial,seemed likely.

Then,two months on,the tantalizing possibility that Zodiac used Coon's address,as part of his plan to murder a taxi driver....and,''stick one over'' on the S.F.Police.

The machinations of a cunning psychopath [?].

It is certainly possible.

Richard
10/6/2017 04:37:52 am

Having Robert H Coon taking a pick up from the Union Square theatre district or nearby, then traveling home and on to Washington and Cherry is not necessarily a required element to the story. Paul Stine took his final paying fare to San Francisco International Airport and then apparently returned to the area of Mason and Geary. He undoubtedly would have accessed Highway 101. Had he stuck on this route and using the larger thoroughfares or 'bigger roads,' his route on the 101 takes him to Market Street on which he heads east to Van Ness Avenue and then he heads north. Then east along Eddy Street, also apparently the home of Lawrence Kane, this street passes right by 345 Hyde Street. Had Robert Coon been walking on Eddy Street or Ellis Street, or in fact anywhere near that location, travelling on foot to the theatre district of Union Square to hopefully commander a taxicab, then Paul Stine would have driven past Robert Coon at the exact time the Zodiac apparently entered the taxicab. He may simply have flagged Paul Stine down and hopped in. Moments later Paul Stine received a radio dispatch from assistant traffic manager of the Yellow Cab Co, Leroy Sweet, who instructed Paul Stine of a regular pick-up at 500 9th Avenue. Robert Coon already in the taxicab having asked Stine to go to Washington and Maple is perfect for Paul Stine. 500 9th Avenue is directly past the location he is already going.
The taxicab meter reading was calculated for a pick up at Mason and Geary. It is 3.0 miles from Mason-Geary to Washington-Cherry. The distance from 345 Hyde St to Washington and Cherry is 2.9 miles, virtually identical, keeping the taxicab meter calculations valid for your charge. Here is the map location for the route I described from the Airport past 345 Hyde Street.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/San+Francisco+International+Airport,+San+Francisco,+CA,+USA/345+Hyde+Street,+San+Francisco,+CA,+USA/37.787149,-122.4098966/@37.7840386,-122.4165722,1011m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m55!4m54!1m45!1m1!1s0x808f778c55555555:0xa4f25c571acded3f!2m2!1d-122.3789554!2d37.6213129!3m4!1m2!1d-122.4181309!2d37.7699038!3s0x808f7e20da4fbf0d:0x77d958c695f54b05!3m4!1m2!1d-122.4201949!2d37.774329!3s0x8085809ef7c7fd37:0x7315f2eb72ffa167!3m4!1m2!1d-122.4192085!2d37.7752057!3s0x8085809e90126fa9:0xfb67415e8c570b16!3m4!1m2!1d-122.4194938!2d37.7766318!3s0x8085809eb37ff715:0x601b012e899c57ee!3m4!1m2!1d-122.42093!2d37.7837287!3s0x80858096fe14ef83:0x18a4a2aeb3555e37!3m4!1m2!1d-122.4201979!2d37.782983!3s0x8085809716e9047d:0xe553408dd240703c!3m4!1m2!1d-122.4188719!2d37.7831495!3s0x80858090cab9829f:0x24b3ecb1893b7897!3m4!1m2!1d-122.4172082!2d37.7833628!3s0x808580909413fe01:0x703efdb49c0f8387!1m5!1m1!1s0x80858090edfb50e7:0xbeabb1e4adccaeed!2m2!1d-122.416329!2d37.784049!1m0!3e0?hl=en

Rubislaw 32 link
10/6/2017 05:29:15 am

Certainly appreciate your hanging in with me on this,Richard....regardless of persuasiveness,or not.

Just to be clear...my inference is that Robert H Coon played no part,at all.Zodiac requested of Paul Stine,that Stine take him to 345 Hyde Street,having secured his lift from Stine,in the vicinity of Union Square.

Zodiac,of course,would not have to have given Stine,his name...just address [345 Hyde Street].

At Washington and Cherry,Zodiac could have easily torn off the front page of Stine's trip sheet,and absconded with it,along with wallet,Shirt swatch and keys.

But Zodiac wanted the cops to find that a visit to 345 Hyde Street,had been made,prior to the final ''Washington and Maple'' entry,on Stine's trip sheet.

That,in effect.....beyond the bloodied shirt sample,and any incriminating fingerprints....that it was ''Zodiac'' himself,who had,not only murdered a taxi driver.....but embarrassed Officer Bawart,the Vallejo Police....and given Robert H Coon,sleepless nights of hassle.

And,''now''......was ''sticking one over'',on the S.F.Police,through the ''Coon connection''.

So,the visit to 345 Hyde Street,was really to ensure that it appeared on Stine's trip sheet.....and left for the S.F.Police,to find.

If I am missing anything,that you require to understand,from me,Richard...just ask away.

Strangely,that may well have not been the end of the name ''Coon'',in the story of the escapades of the Zodiac Killer.

More to come,if you wish [!].

Rubislaw 32 link
10/6/2017 09:45:30 am

Just with reference to your last post,Richard,Much as I admire Hines,and his attempts to shed some light on the disappearance of Donna Lass.....

I am,in no shape or form,persuaded that Lawrence Kane,had any connection to the case of The Zodiac Killer.

So,any perceived coincidences,with respect to geographic proximity,on the evening of Paul Stine's murder,would,at best,be precisely that.....a coincidence.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/7/2017 02:13:19 am

Thanks for the logistics information,Richard.

I will spend some time examining it.Naturally,your assessment of 2.9 miles,from Coon's address to ''Washington and Cherry'',is of interest,to me.

On the basis that the S.F.Police and Vallejo Police,would ''bang heads'',on an understanding,once the implications of the Hyde Street address,was fully understood.....then Robert H Coon's complete innocence,would be self evident.

More to the point,from Zodiac's perspective,he would not be able to use Mr.Coon and his ''Glastonbury Zodiac'' philosophy,as a tool of manipulation and ''mayhem'',again [!].

But Mr.Coon had served his ''purpose'',successfully,and Paul Stine represented another ''victory'',notched up.

Indeed,I have found,what I believe to be,further use of the name ''Coon'',by Zodiac....but this is in relation to a man named ''Claude Hubert'',whose actions were no less brutal than Zodiac's.

Ironies,ironies.....

Richard
10/10/2017 05:49:09 am

Have you ever tried to badger the SFPD to release details on the trip sheet using the FOIA.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/17/2017 02:08:09 am

The SF Chronicle used to assist me,with any dealings with the SFPD.

But even they,as well as LE,have all ''closed rank'',on the assistance of any information,since February 2015.

If anyone has received requested information since,then it is because it was no longer considered,of any consequence to any aspect of the case of The Zodiac Killer.

The pivotal ''moment'' in a revival of the whole case,in general,came about,with a meeting between James Comey,then FBI Director,and the then Lord Advocate of Scotland,Frank Mulholland.

This,in the week before Christmas 2014.

Whatever,any experienced websleuth might try to indicate,perhaps for self serving purposes [?],the ''amateurs'' are now,very much,on their own.

Possibly ''good'' for the case...but it could still be a long wait,to see palpable progress.

A conviction of any sort,is the only thing that really counts,and real opportunities of constructing a judicial prosecution,although possible,remain thin on the ground.

At least,some LE agencies are really trying.

best e-liquid in UK link
10/17/2017 07:42:57 am

A harmful message is sent to our younger generation as states pass the legalization of marijuana, offering it as a safe and harmless drug. The problem worsens when our young people believe synthetic marijuana is the same as natural marijuana.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/18/2017 07:48:54 am

If I may just pick up on a few,so far open and debatable points,with regard to the actual crime scene,Richard.

I certainly took note of your reference to an A-Z map/book found.

I feel that it belonged to Zodiac,rather than Stine.

Zodiac had to remove a gun,from his person,and replace it.Also,remove a handkerchief.Also,pocket the cab's keys,Stine's wallet,and shirt swatch.

All these things,with time of the essence,he was bound to leave something behind,with his pockets seeing much activity [?].

Taxi drivers are supposed to have acquired ''the knowledge'',so one wonders if a city ''A-Z'',is something that they would actually need to have,for reference purposes.

But a ''tourist'' - yes.

It appears to be in dispute,regarding the weather and temperature,at that time [...approximately,10 p.m,of an evening...].I have read that it was unusually mild,for an October evening.And yet,I have also read that the fog was rolling in,which gave a chill to the air.

I have also read conflicting reports,about the windows,of Stine's cab.One report claims that three of Stine's windows were fully down.Another,that the windows were all fully up,apart from Stine's driver's window,which was one third down.

I am more inclined to believe the latter,and that Stine's cab,represented a veritable ''reverberation chamber'',for the discharge of a gun.In addition to Zodiac succeeding in placing the muzzle of the weapon up against Stine's temple,which would have further reduced sound waves from leaving the inside of the cab.

In fact,I am confident that Zodiac received perforated ear damage,This would no doubt have handicapped him,with all the ''little tasks'',that he knew that he would have to perform.But adrenaline and concentration,can override such things.

I believe that it is confirmed that Zodiac absconded,with the inside lights of the cab illuminated,and the engine running.That could explain,his removal of the cab keys....a legacy of inconveniency....exhaust fumes,and first police to arrive,wondering if,and how,they switch the engine off [?].

The ''345 Hyde Street'' stop,does I believe,explain a number of ''events'',both approaching ''Washington and Cherry'',and at the stationary crime scene,itself.

I remain hopeful,that the truth of the matter,will out,eventually.

Just as,what is under the pumpkin,on the Halloween Card [!].

Richard
10/18/2017 11:04:23 am

I don't think Paul Stine could be described as a seasoned taxicab driver. He was studying to be more than that. So it wouldn't be out of the ordinary for him to have some form of assistance in the way of a street directory. My guess is they cross checked this with either Leroy Sweet or his wife.
Randall Scott Clemons did some sterling work on this. He showed me about two years ago that three of the main windows were rolled down. I will check for the link.
I have extensively checked weather forecasts for October 11th 1969 and have found nothing to corroborate Graysmith's claim of a foggy night. To the contrary, it was a mild 59 degrees, which lends to the idea of the windows being rolled down, or somebody smoked on the journey. This temperature negates the need for gloves, so either they were a plant, or possibly from a previous passenger who was travelling to cooler climes, ie: the passenger taken to the airport.

Richard
10/18/2017 11:11:12 am

http://www.zodiackillerenigma.com/2015/05/the-zodiac-murder-of-paul-stine.html

Richard
10/18/2017 11:30:32 am

Here are two useful links to Riverside Rubislaw; The latter has a picture of Dennis Highland, the boyfriend of CJB.

http://rccd.edu/Documents/RCC%20Countdown%202014/RCC100yr5_27_2014.pdf

https://www.reuniondb.com/reunion_details/361_RamonaHighSchool_64.pdf

Rubuslaw 32 link
10/18/2017 11:48:46 am

I see what you mean about Stine,doing the job part-time.Another case of more research needed,since one assumes that a cab licence,and that which it entails,would be the same,regardless of full time,or part time [?].

59 F,for October evening appears quite mild,,,,again,perhaps more research,needed.

Yes,I would really appreciate access to the Randall Scott Clemons work.The archive photos are difficult examine,if looking for clues on the status of the cab windows....but that would not necessarily confirm anything.

Interesting to hear of a report that somebody smoked,since we are fairly confident that Zodiac was a regular smoker.Of course,few adults didn't smoke,in those days [!].

I have read a few reports about the gloves.Two,that they were ladies gloves,held from previous journeys.But nothing absolutely confirmed.

Gentlemen wearing gloves isn't often seen,unless cold conditions.Graysmith seemed to think that Zodiac wore them....but possibly just made assumptions,on the report that a pair were found in Stine's cab.

I can't see Zodiac having worn ear plugs,since he would at least have needed to converse with Stine,to some extent...in order to ''engineer'' events in his favour.And I don't buy the idea that his ears would have received no damage,at all.

So,the windows ''status'' is pretty important [?].

I will scour around to see if there are more extensive police reports.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/18/2017 11:24:33 pm

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the ''zodiackillerenigma'' site.

The computerised photographic work is very impressive.

Just on a matter of Paul Stine's head wound,it is stated,on that site that Stine was shot in the back of the head.

From Toschi and Armstrong's report on their crime scene assessment,their initial interpretation of the bloody scene,was that Stine had received a bullet to the back of his right ear.

However,following a forensic pathologist's examination,the Coroner's report states,and is signed for,that : '' gunshot entrance wound anterior [front of] to the right ear''.The report also includes the detail of : '' dark marks of the deceased's doreal [?] surface of left hand'' - with reference to the gunpowder traces.

The official cause of death was '' Gunshot wound of brain ''.

Without labouring the point,it is entirely transparent,and officially on record that Stine received a bullet to the front of his right ear.What is known in layman's terms as his right temple.

I will certainly let you know on any information with regard to debatable and presumed so far ''unconfirmed'' details.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/23/2017 03:52:16 am

On the basis,of attempting to find more information,Richard,one inevitably researches,on what others have heard or read,or what is actually in print,and from what sources,did it emanate.

I note that initial newspaper reports,were inaccurately stating that Stine received a bullet to the back of his head.Naturally,if those newspapers did not correct inaccuracies,following the coroners report,then many take the story further,underpinned by a fundamental falsehood.

There are some sites that state the true essential facts.But one only has to read Graysmith's account,to realize that some just ran with inaccurate information.Graysmith simply assumes that Zodiac grabbed Stine's throat [!],before administering a fatal bullet.

I have made clear that the backseat scenario,is most unlikely...but,whether back seat or front,it seems even more unlikely that Zodiac would put his free hand,anywhere near to his ''armed'' hand.....for fear that one or more bullets required would wound the free hand [?].

One might see a ''back seat'' scenario,if Stine had a substantial ''pony tail'',for which Zodiac would be able to grasp....but even a free hand around Stine's face,leaves Zodiac's fingers vulnerable [?].

Just on the matter of a gunshot heard,there are ''unconfirmed'' reports that neighbours in the area,heard a shot.But this,to an extent,crystallises events at the crime scene [?].

That,and in particular,there are aspects of the murder,that the police know,and do not believe it in the public interest,for others to find out.

One can accept this,if an assurance was made,that ''the authorities'' were still confident that this case could be solved.

But,as time goes by.....

Richard
10/23/2017 05:38:00 am

We can read all sorts of information on the internet, and with only one truth, many are either fabrications or simple errors. Stine wasn't shot in the back of the head, but on the right side, conducive with a right-handed shooter firing from behind. Can we totally rule out a front seat passenger on autopsy alone- no- but I would hazard a guess that most taxicab drivers in San Francisco didn't encourage passengers in the front seat, and Carol Stine was of the opinion that Paul Stine didn't allow front seat passengers. Without a shred of evidence backing up a front seat passenger, other than conjecture, I stick with the back seat scenario. It's certainly easier to draw a gun from the rear and place it in near contact by the anterior of the right ear, than achieving this from the front seat. There is however an often overlooked autopsy report stating "Both lungs are moderately increased in weight. There is congestion at the base and dependant portions. Multiple intraparenchymal hemorrhages are noted." The blood in the lungs does not appear to have drained from the head wound. Were this the case the blood should be in the lung air space rather than the parenchyma (which is the lung tissue itself.) Additionally, the position of Stine's body (with the head approximately at the level of the chest while in Zodiac's lap and then below the level of the chest, on the floorboard after Zodiac left the scene) would not be conducive to passive blood flow from the head wound into the air space of he lungs."
These are injuries often associated with impact injuries to the chest, such as car crashes. Intraparenchymal injuries are noted frequently in automobile crashes, where traumatic brain and chest injury occur as a result of the vehicle being brought to a sudden and immediate stop. "Lung parenchymal injury: Pulmonary contusion is caused by rapid deceleration against a steering wheel, fall from a height and from blast injuries."
To me anyway, it is so easy to fall into the 49 year old narrative of how these crimes unfolded and never question the initial interpretations from early investigators, who may or may not be correct, especially when you've seen the 2007 documentary, strewn with errors and false assumptions. If we consider these lung injuries and marry them with the discrepancy of the trip sheet destination and where the taxicab was found, it is extremely plausible they could be connection, and an altercation ensued earlier in the journey, possibly just shy of Washington and Maple. The assailant may not have just coolly executed Paul Stine at Washington and Cherry at all. Consider the passenger drawing a gun to Paul Stine's head approaching Washington and Maple. Paul Stine slams on his brakes to propel the passenger forward and grab the gun. Nevertheless the rapid deceleration causes him to impact the steering wheel with his chest in the form of a compression injury, and may have caused the dark mark on the dorsal side of his left hand. Zodiac equally would be propelled forward striking the back seats with his legs, thereby possibly causing injury to his leg, evident by the semi-limp action described by Fouke. If the lung hemorrhages were not blood from the brain, then logically they were caused by alternative means, and may explain the trip sheet and crime scene location disparity. The question is- did the police check for fresh skid marks on the road, and any flat spotting on the tyres.

Rubislaw 32 link
10/23/2017 07:13:34 am

Very interesting points made,by you,and digested.

It does seem to me,that interested observers fall into specific categories of interpretation,with some persuasive arguments for their observation,and some arguments that are questionable.

Mine included.

But essentially,we are looking at the Cherry or Maple scenario,and the back seat/front seat one [?].

One element that comes to mind is,whether any of the teens were able to remember if the passenger front door was open or closed,when Zodiac was spotted ''rifling'' through Stine and his possessions [?].

If Zodiac had been in the back,and then elected to enter the front,for ''post kill'' requirements,it is unlikely that he would close the passenger front door,behind him.

But,like many aspects,we will probably never know.

This case is still worth evaluating and re-evaluating,though.Strangely,the one confirmed murder,by Zodiac,where the crime scene,as he left it,remained in undisturbed condition.Even,David Faraday was technically still alive,and with his removal,would have altered some aspect,of that crime scene [?].

I am delighted that you have given me an opportunity to offer up the ''345 Hyde Street'' angle,Richard.I have posted it before....but more as a ''faction'' piece.

I remain convinced [!]...no doubt as others,of their interpretation of events of what has become,a most enigmatic murder.


Comments are closed.
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture

    All
    13 Hole Postcard
    148 Character Cipher
    1978 Letter
    1986 Letter
    1987 Letter
    2001 Happy New Year Card
    Albany Letter
    Allan/Peyton Murders
    Arthur Leigh Allen
    Atlanta Letter
    Betsy Aardsma
    Blue Rock Springs Attack
    Bus Bomb Letter
    Button Letter
    Call To Chat Show
    Carol Beth Hilburn
    Channel 9 Letter
    Cheri Jo Bates
    Cipher Theories
    Citizen Card
    Concerned Citizen Card
    Confession Letter
    Daniel Williams Poisoning
    Debut Of Zodiac Letter
    Deep Real Estate Ad
    DMV Letter
    Domingos/Edwards Murders
    Donald Lee Bujok
    Donna Lass
    Dragon Card
    Earl Van Best Jr
    Eureka Card
    Exorcist Letter
    Fairfield Letter
    Fingerprint Evidence
    Forecast For Cancer
    Forecast For Leo
    Gareth Penn
    General News Articles
    Gilbert And Sullivan
    Good Citizen Letter
    Halloween Card
    Hood/Garcia Murders
    Internet Articles
    Joan Webster
    Judith Hakari
    Kevin Robert Brooks
    Lake Berryessa Attack
    Lake Herman Road Murders
    Lake Tahoe Disappearance
    Larry Kane
    Leona Roberts Murder
    Los Angeles Letter
    Melvin Belli Letter
    Mike Morford (Morf13)
    Modesto Attack
    Molina/Rodriguez Murders
    Monticello Card
    My Name Is Letter
    Nancy Bennallack
    New Canaan Letters
    Novato Letter
    Oakland A's Letter
    Pines Card
    Possible Zodiac Attacks
    Possible Zodiac Letters
    Presidio Heights Murder
    Radians
    Red Phantom Letter
    Richard Gaikowski
    Riverside Desktop Poem
    Robert Salem Murder
    Ross Sullivan
    Saechao/Saelee Murders
    San Jose Code Letter
    Santa Claus Card
    Scotch Tape Letter
    Sla Letter
    Tamalpais Valley Attack
    Ted Kaczynski
    Telegraph Avenue Incident
    The 340 Cipher
    The 408 Cipher
    The Celebrity Cypher
    The Little List
    The Mikado
    Thomas Horan
    You Are Next Letter
    Zodiac Letters Poll
    Zodiac Postage
    Zodiac Theories

    Picture

    RSS Feed

    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians & # inches along the radians. The code solution identified was Estimate: Four Radians and Five Inches To read more, click the image.
    Picture
    Picture
    The Zodiac Atlas: The Zodiac Killer Enigma by Randall Scott Clemons. Click image for details.
    Picture
    The Zodiac Killer Map: Part of the Zodiac Killer Enigma by Randall Scott Clemons. Click image for color version
    For black and white issue..
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture

    Archives

    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    April 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    May 2017
    April 2017
    March 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    December 2016
    November 2016
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    May 2016
    April 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    January 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    October 2013
    September 2013
    August 2013
    July 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    July 2012
    January 2012

Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Photos used under Creative Commons from Marcin Wichary, zAppledot, vyusseem, Alex Barth, Alan Cleaver, jocelynsart, Richard Perry, taberandrew, eschipul, MrJamesAckerley