THE SEARCH FOR ZODIAC DNA

10/21/2018

Zodiac researcher Mike Rodelli recalled a conversation with Alan Keel, Criminalist at the San Francisco Police Department, San Francisco, California from 1996 to 1999. He stated "In contrast (to earlier communications), Keel analyzes two other letters, one of which is the 1978 forgery, and finds that this letter and one of the 1974 letters are loaded with saliva and cells. He then easily extracts DNA from both of these letters using the more primitive DNA technology of that time and finds that the DNA matches between those two letters, thus proving that one person sent both".

For these two communications to be matched definitively using DNA, "proving that one person sent both", they must have revealed full DNA profiles - because a partial DNA profile in one could not have proved conclusive. The DNA tests conducted by the San Francisco Police Department in the late 1990s. indicated that subsequent to 1974 only the January 29th 1974 'Exorcist' letter had been processed and "cells found". There was no mention of the other 1974 letters being processed. Therefore, one could conclude that the two letters discovered to match one another (according to Keel), were the 1974 'Exorcist' letter and the April 24th 1978 letter - and therefore written by the same individual.

The 1978 letter is listed in the report as "not authentic Zodiac letter". If the San Francisco Police Department concluded the 1978 letter was not an authentic Zodiac letter, then the 'Exorcist' letter would not be either. This brings forth some interesting questions.

Michael Butterfield wrote an article entitled 'Zodiac DNA:The Magic Bullet' on his 'Zodiac Killer Facts' website, stating
"In the late 1990s, San Francisco police obtained DNA from a suspected Zodiac letter, and the DNA did not match Allen’s DNA".. The San Francisco Police Department surely wouldn't have used the DNA obtained from the April 24th 1978 letter for comparison, as they themselves had deemed it "not authentic Zodiac correspondence" and it had long been considered questionable material. Therefore, they must have obtained this DNA from another letter they "suspected" was a Zodiac letter, to compare to known suspects. But if the 'Exorcist' letter (as Mike Rodelli suspects) and the 1978 letter matched in DNA - were written by the same individual - and so by association were considered "not authentic Zodiac correspondence", then which "suspected Zodiac letter" did the San Francisco Police Department use to compare to Allen's DNA.

In the San Francisco Police Department report the only letters in which they stated "cells found", other than the 'Exorcist' letter, were the July 24th 1970 'Kathleen Johns' letter and July 26th 1970 'Little List' letter. Every correspondence tested prior to July 24th 1970 were labelled 'Envelope processed for DNA - few cells'. The 'Exorcist' letter came under scrutiny, alongside the 1978 letter, when Inspector David Toschi fell under the microscope in 1978 for forging one or both. So, would it be likely the 'Exorcist' or 1978 letter would be chosen by the San Francisco Police Department in the 1990s as a "suspected Zodiac letter" (and for the reasons given above), and used to rule out Arthur Leigh Allen's DNA? They surely would have turned to more credible sources. But they only had two other letters where "cells were found".

In 2002, Dr. Cydne Holt performed a new round of tests on some of the early 1969 Zodiac letters. Having failed to find suitable DNA on these letters (as suggested by the "few cells" findings of the 1990s), it has now come to light that the ABC Primetime documentary scoured the outside of the envelopes and stamps for DNA instead, thereby negating any findings as to the identity of the Zodiac Killer.

But why were they searching for Zodiac DNA, to compare to suspects such as Arthur Leigh Allen and Kjell Qvale, when "in the late 1990s, San Francisco police obtained DNA from a suspected Zodiac letter, and the DNA did not match Allen’s DNA". The new round of tests performed in 2002 would now suggest that the DNA they found in the 1990s from a "suspected Zodiac letter" was no longer believed to be from Zodiac.

In 2018 "Vallejo police Detective Terry Poyser, who has worked the Zodiac case for four years, said his agency has submitted two envelopes that contained letters from the Zodiac Killer for a type of advanced DNA analysis that previously had not been available in the case. The department has three letters and two envelopes from the Zodiac, Poyser said. The envelopes each have a double stamp, which Poyser said was a trademark of the Zodiac. They originally were sent to the San Francisco Chronicle and the San Francisco Examiner, he said. The third letter was sent to the Vallejo Times-Herald, but does not have an envelope with it, he said". Sacramento Bee.

However, these are the July 31st 1969 envelopes and stamps already tested by Dr. Cydne Holt in 2002, which failed to produce any viable results. The hope is that more advanced DNA analysis may turn up something new. But what about the "suspected Zodiac letter" from the 1990s with "cells found". Couldn't this be examined using advanced DNA analysis? This letter has apparently already produced a DNA profile to rule out Allen, so why is it being ignored - or is it?

In a poll of 93 people conducted on this site, 85% believe the 'Exorcist' letter to be genuine Zodiac correspondence, whereas in a poll of 94 people conducted on this site, only 54% believe the 1978 letter to be genuine Zodiac correspondence. If Mike Rodelli's suspicions are true, then both the 'Exorcist' and 1978 letter are "not authentic Zodiac correspondence". If the San Francisco Police Department have long considered these two communications as not credible, then which "suspected Zodiac letter" was used to rule out Arthur Leigh Allen in the 1990s - and can it be used again for advanced DNA analysis?

We have long been led to believe the 'Exorcist' letter was the last confirmed communication by the Zodiac Killer. If the poll on this site were true of the entire Zodiac community, then 85% of people believe the 'Exorcist' letter to be genuine Zodiac correspondence. If the other 1974 letters were not tested or found to contain DNA (as the SFPD report suggests), then it is extremely likely a full DNA profile exists for the 'Exorcist' letter (shown at the top of this article).

For those who believe the January 29th 1974 'Exorcist' letter to be an authentic mailing from the Zodiac Killer with a full DNA profile, you should be asking "why hasn't this been run through GEDmatch".

Nobody

10/21/2018 06:10:03 am

The verdict on the DNA must come some day soon, surely?

Right now I feel like I have been watching that play "Waiting for Godot" over and over and over and over and....

Richard

10/21/2018 06:24:22 am

Its only been a year, maybe they're waiting for the 20,000 backlog of DNA samples they have in cold storage to be processed and placed into the database.

Richard

10/21/2018 06:26:25 am

In 2003, California enacted a law granting victims the right to be informed whether a DNA profile was obtained from testing their rape kit, the profile was uploaded into the DNA database, and the DNA profile matched another profile in the database. Additionally, victims have the right to know if law enforcement decide not to test a rape kit within established time limits, and must be notified 60 days prior if law enforcement intends to destroy or dispose of such evidence. Victims are also granted the right to designate a sexual assault victim advocate to receive any of the above information.

In 2014, California enacted a law that encourages law enforcement agencies to submit newly collected rape kits for testing within 20 days of being booked into evidence and instructs the crime lab to process rape kit evidence as soon as possible, but no later than 120 days after receiving it. It also requires law enforcement agencies to inform survivors, whether or not the identity of the perpetrator is known, if the law enforcement agency does not analyze the DNA evidence within certain time limits.

In 2016, California enacted a law that requires the California Department of Justice (DOJ) to establish a process for victims to request information about the location and status of their rape kits by July 2018.

http://www.endthebacklog.org/california

Richard

10/21/2018 06:29:26 am

Maybe they should enact a law to get their priorities right, and not waste American tax dollars on buying Betsy DeVos another 50 million dollar boat.

Drew

10/21/2018 09:04:07 am

If they have had a full DNA profile for the Zodiac for over twenty years is it possible they could refrain from bragging about it and keep it under wraps? Could the primetime show have somehow been in the dark about everything and ran illogical tests against Allen's profile? The quick answer is surely yes, but that is very frustrating I must say. The VPD (as reported) seem like they are still looking for a viable profile, so that suggests that authorities are not just idly sitting on incontrovertible proof. I don't think I or maybe anyone without a badge has anything to add here Richard but man if there was one question we could get an official answer on this is it.

Richard

10/21/2018 10:25:58 am

Mike Rodelli has suspicions (and rightly so) if Keel is correct, that the Exorcist letter is not authentic Zodiac correspondence. We know we need two full DNA profiles (with enough markers) on two letters to fully authenticate they came from the same person, otherwise you can only rule out, or not rule out. So, if Mike is correct that the Exorcist letter is a forgery with a full DNA profile, this could be run through GEDmatch for familial links, or family tree.
If, for example, this produced an eventual result of identifying Kjell Qvale, then Mike would now know the Exorcist letter was genuine.

At the very least it may identify the Zodiac forger of the Exorcist letter, who may have links to the killer. We cannot just assume the "non-authentic" Zodiac letters were just written by random people. The forger may have been an associate, or somebody known to Allen or another suspect, who was just fueling the fire.

God forbid, that the DNA gave familial links to one of the investigators or reporters, who may have been eager to keep the dwindling story of Zodiac alive. This was suspected in the Jack the Ripper crimes. In fact, the name Jack the Ripper was thought to have been a creation of one of the first forms of the tabloid press.

If investigators really believe the Exorcist letter genuine, or at the very least one of the 1974 letters), then they have at least two DNA profiles to enter into a DNA database, or GEDmatch- The 1978 letter and one 74 letter. If one happened to turn up one of the major suspects, then we have lift off - unless we start making the claim that Arthur Leigh Allen, Ted Kaczynski or Kjell Qvale weren't the Zodiac, just the forger. But that would be hard to swallow.

If Keel is correct, then these full DNA profiles are not being used for a reason, either both the Exorcist letter and 78 letter were penned by women, penned by an investigator, or possibly penned by a journalist/reporter in a hush-hush exercise. There has to be a reason why a full DNA profile is not being used in today's databases, or being revealed in documentaries such as ABC Primetime in 2002.

Drew

10/21/2018 03:05:23 pm

If they have the full profile of the author of both the Exorcist and the 78 letter (or even just one of the two) then they can't really know that person is not the killer (unless it was a female or Toschi I suppose). Even if it was a female profile they should see what they can learn from a genealogy search. It could turn up a companion of a viable suspect or even a victim unknown to the case. As Bolt said on another forum, why not just run whatever they have? Of course I guess they may have and didn't have the consideration of letting us know about it.

Richard

10/21/2018 11:16:24 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but despite this being presented on the frontage of cinema releases, the Exorcist letter, SLA letter and Badlands letter (three consecutive communications) post 1974, were the only purported Zodiac letters/cards to use quotation marks around words. The Zodiac had never used quotation marks prior to 1974. If you know otherwise, let me know.

Richard

10/21/2018 12:19:23 pm

If these three consecutive communications were forgeries by the same individual, then the Exorcist letter and SLA letter can be linked by the cryptic clue at the foot of the Exorcist letter. If Kevin Robert Brooks is correct that it 'decodes' to say "To Kill", then the fact the author of the SLA letter uses quotation marks around kill may be significant to link the two communications.

http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/507381.jpg?
392

The author of the Exorcist letter, if Kevin is correct, has used an 'upper case letter' for the T of "To" and an 'upper case letter' for the K of "Kill", lending much validity to his solution.

Richard

10/21/2018 12:22:19 pm

ie: The only capital letters present on the decoded Exorcist symbols are the beginning of words, with greater emphasis on the K of kill.

Drew

10/21/2018 06:40:37 pm

You are absolutely correct about his use of quotation marks Richard. In the Nov 9, 69 letter he used quotation marks to denote inches when listing the ingredients of his bomb and in his April 20, 70 bomb diagram to indicate the use of the same words as his above line (which he or a hoaxer also did in the Dec 16, 69 Fairfield letter), but he never uses quotes around words, even when quoting his conversation with the police.

"I was walking down the hill to the park when this cop car pulled up + one of them called me over + asked if I saw anyone acting suspicious or strange in the last 5 to 10 min + I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber"

An even more telling comparison could be made if he ever quoted the name of a production in his 69/70 material, but I don't believe he ever did. "The Most Dangerous Game" and "The Mikado" were never cited directly.

While we're cataloguing, in the Nov 29, 66 Confession letter the author uses quotes around words.

"I told her that my car was down the street and that I would give her a lift home. When we were away from the library walking, I said it was about time. She asked me "about time for what". I said it was about time for her to die."

Regarding Kevin Brooks solution to the Exorcist symbols I have always admired "To Kill" and I agree that it resonates well with the SLA and Badlands letters. Another thing that happens in the these letters is the use of brackets. Zodiac used brackets only once that I can see on one of his letters about buttons.

"I shall (on top of everything else) torture all 13 of my blah blah"

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 09:13:10 am

Until this ''there never was any DNA'' movement of belief,emerged,seemingly ''rubber stamped'' by the ''Poyser and VPD'' press release,I wasn't really aware,of what had reputedly been going on,at the SFPD Lab,circa 2002/2003.

Essentially,Primetime TV,ABC News and anchor lady,Diana Sawyer,together with Miss Holt,and some Zodiac potential source ''scraps'',attempting to mirror,what was actually taking place,behind closed doors,in an official agreement,between the CA DOJ and the FBI,at Quantico.

The reality,as appeared to be the case,was that the CA DOJ and FBI cleared up to 250 suspects,in an unprecedented ongoing criminal case decision,and included better known names,such as ALA and Mr.X.

The SFPD Lab,only attempted some work,because they were offered TV money,to ''enact'' something,for public consumption.

It seems obvious,that,in recent times,nothing has really changed.Any real further work,involves the same arrangement,between the CA DOJ and Quantico...with the SFPD Lab,making the same old claims of self importance....and the VPD,misleading the public,over a ''secret Lab''.....which we are supposed to interpret as a euphemism for ''special Lab''.

It's that special,that it doesn't actually exist.

We should not concern ourselves,really.Everything has been,or is being taken care of,on the forensics front,and,with costs met by Federal taxes.....which ought to be good news for Californian State tax payers.

But,one must feel sorry for the SFPD Lab.It has always struggled,on finances and staffing.And,with the CA DOJ not prepared to use it,and always seek the easy option of Quantico...it is unlikely to ever really elevate itself,beyond carrying out work on less than high profile cases....and has to continue to bravely,but dishonestly,claim a greater role,in the case of the Zodiac Killer.

Drew

10/21/2018 06:56:10 pm

Well I don't think your very thoughtful and very possibly accurate opinions provide us with the answer the big question Rubislaw, but I thank you kind sir for your attention and very much appreciate your investigative conclusions about what's happening behind the scenes. Unfortunately, trying to determine whose sources are correct and/or being truthful is clearly problematic. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to learn that an elaborate circus of secretive activity is going on regarding this potential public relations bomb shell. Thanks man

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 11:12:13 pm

Accepted Drew.

Some people are more trusting,than others.One has to ask,what the real purpose of the VPD's invitation,extended to Mr.Voigt,in September 2017 [?].

Because he is an ''all round good egg'' [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 11:28:33 pm

Interesting syntax comments,Drew.

I had a quick browse.It's a long study,to do fully [?].

Thanks for the pointers.A possible study in the evolution of Zodiac's handwriting eccentricities,makes for a good bedtime read.

Nobody

10/22/2018 12:10:27 am

Maybe they thought Tom V could provide them with the recent whereabouts of 'Bigfoot'. A fair trade if ever there was one!

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 10:23:27 am

I hope that the comment above,answers your questions,Drew.

But,there are some folk,at a certain large Zodiac site,that seem to run away,from the truth of the matter,and comfortably exist in a bubble.

Over the last four years,I have become aware of compelling evidence that there are a further 4 DOJs involved,either directly,or indirectly,in matters related to the case of the Zodiac Killer.

In addition,forensics work,carried out at another crime fighting laboratory,outside the State of California.

I would suggest that,and by inference,that this case is a bit bigger than some may realise.

Richard

10/21/2018 10:55:08 am

If the 2002 show was designed to satiate the desires of ruling out presented suspects and to harness ratings, then it was ill-advised, and does nothing but smear the reputations of specialized forensic investigators and their dubious techniques.
Putting prejudices aside, why would you test letters with "few cells" on the SFPD report, above letters like the "Button" letter that most people believe to be genuine, which stated "cells found".Ruling out the 1978 letter based on handwriting analysis is dodgy ground. Just watch any court case, one expert says one thing, another expert says the other. Handwriting analysis is subjective and would, or should not convict on its own. Look at the so-called experts analyzing the handwriting of the JonBenet Ramsey ransom letter. They all conclude different things - some believe Patsy to be the author, some don't. The Zodiac letters, in of themselves, vary wildly. And anybody who can conclude the three scruffy Bates letters were written by Zodiac, is seeing something I'm not.

The SFPD have put in black and white that the 1978 letter is not authentic Zodiac correspondence. Based on what? They cannot definitively say this using handwriting alone, and since this is stated in a DNA table, one has to believe they ruled out the 1978 letter through generating a DNA profile. But we don't know the DNA profile of the Zodiac Killer, so how was it ruled out. The two answers are [1] The DNA profile was female, or [2] The DNA profile was from somebody they knew wasn't the killer.

Answer [2] could mean a reporter, investigator, editor, or colleague.
Otherwise, why not reveal why this letter isn't genuine based on DNA.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/22/2018 10:37:28 am

Yes Nobody...one feels that Mr.Voigt might have had more success,had he allocated that time to searching for '' size 10 1/2 foot ''.

Carl Krash link

10/21/2018 11:03:23 am

Vallejo may have asked for testing of the glue side of the stamps, no? I’d love to know if that’s the case.

I just can’t see the Exorcist Letter even coming into question. Evidence chain needs clarification

Richard

10/21/2018 11:23:07 am

Yes. Quote: "Poyser said that DNA sample was hampered because technology didn't exist at the time to separate the glue used on the stamps and envelopes from the genetic material. However, science now has advanced to allow a clean grab of the DNA."

But there have been many cases where DNA was retrieved from envelope seals and stamps prior to 2018.

Richard

10/21/2018 01:33:36 pm

Wearside Jack is the nickname given to John Samuel Humble (born 8 January 1956), an Englishman who pretended to be the Yorkshire Ripper in a number of hoax letters and an audio communication in 1978–79.

A major breakthrough came during 2005 when senior officers from West Yorkshire Police's Homicide and Major Inquiry Team (HMIT), headed by Det Chief Supt Chris Gregg, decided to review the case. A small piece of the gummed seal from one of the envelopes was located in a forensic laboratory and following publicity about the cold case review the hoax tape was retrieved from a retired scientist who had worked on the original investigation.[9]

As a result of this cold case review, DNA from envelopes sent by Humble as part of the hoax were matched in the United Kingdom National DNA Database with samples police had obtained from Humble in an unrelated incident in 2000, when he had been arrested and cautioned for being drunk and disorderly.[10] By this time Humble had become an alcoholic loner.

Humble, who was living on the Ford Estate in Sunderland, was arrested on 20 October 2005, and charged with four counts of perverting the course of justice. Upon his arrest, Humble had been so drunk that police had to wait several hours before he was considered sober enough to be interviewed. Humble admitted responsibility for the letters and the cassette, but denied perverting the course of justice, and his legal team pushed in vain for a lesser charge of wasting police time.

Richard

10/21/2018 01:37:28 pm

These letters were 26 years old. In 2002, when Dr. Cydne Holt tested the letters, the Exorcist letter would have been 28 years old.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 11:16:28 am

Yes absolutely,Richard,in terms of looking around at specific correspondences,with a list of ambiguities and contradictions,inferred.

My focus,has been admittedly,uncovering ''broader based'' aspects to the case.If I do hold a personal grudge,with ''LE'',it is to do with the transparency of information,I gave them.....for which they ''sold me a dummy'',and left me at the ''starting gate'' on real investigations.

But,I'm just an amateur.....so ''more fool me'',but of course it only strengthened my resolve to hang on to their coat tails,on the real line of inquiry.

4 years,and counting,with the reality that still,we might not see real justice delivered.

Though I doubt it.

There will be a resolution,of some sort.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 11:47:29 am

It is not my intention to sound cryptic,but if to to keep readers interested......these last four years,has really been about uncovering more potential victims.

And,more victims equates to more chances of a conviction,for the presumed Zodiac.

I look at 5,but there be as little as 3.

And,sadly,its possible that only one might be ''winnable''.

But,''one'' is all that is needed.

I suppose that,from that,albeit speculative perspective,in examining the Bay Area crimes,and the correspondences involved in Zodiac's perceived reign of terror.....then one can see that,there is probably a ''wealth'' of potential further forensics sources,available.

Until then,''we'' can only focus,on that information,that has been made available,to us,the public amateurs.

Richard

10/21/2018 01:57:17 pm

One thing we need to do R-32, if we consider Cheri Jo Bates as a Zodiac crime, is identify "there will be more" from April 29th 1967 to December 20th 1968. Did he commit no attacks during this period, or more specifically between October 30th 1966 and December 20th 1968.
Did our killer return to Riverside during his Zodiac reign, committing murders, such as the murder of Sunny Lyn Dagowitz on December 16th 1970 in Los Angeles. This has been compared to the Riverside City College Library murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30th 1966.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/sunny-lyn-dagowitz

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 02:54:30 pm

I know what you mean,for consideration,Richard.

Personally,I have him down,for extortion,only,in the Bates murder.

Then,I go with Lafferty's uncovering of Library habits,of an unknown man,impersonating WJGrant,in Vallejo and Fairfield.....which places ''Zodiac'',as at least a part-time resident of Vallejo,by February 1968.

So,that would ask questions,about April 1967 - February 1968 [?].

10 months ?

Even Lafferty couldn't explain it.The FBI have documentation of Library signatures.

So,I have been more thinking that,Zodiac could have been a resident of Vallejo,for almost one year,before deciding to kill [LHR].

There is no getting away from,where one is coming from,figuratively.

I have Zodiac,on the construction side,of the Oil business,and believe that he may have moved to Bakersfield,before taking up work residency,in Vallejo.

Bakersfield,is the unofficial Oil capital of California,and any ''career'' person,tends to stay there,at one time,or another.

Herbert Wyse

10/21/2018 03:52:01 pm

You are brilliant! They should put you in charge of the entire investigation Rubi-32. The case would be solved in no time.

art

10/21/2018 02:40:59 pm

Re at least one DNA testing event via SFPD in the late 90's, don't know which letter it was:
At the time of the testing SFPD believed the tested stamp was from Z. The DNA result from the stamp was a partial STR profile that did not match ALA brain autopsy reference sample (also a partial). Several months later SFPD decided that particular stamp was NOT from Z.
It is very unfortunate the one stamp SFPD chose to test at that time was apparently not legit...Suggests lack of organization and lack of overall strategy (?).

Rubislaw 32 link

10/21/2018 11:20:13 pm

Thank you Mr.Wyse [....great surname...].

The credit should be pointed in Mr.Grinell's direction,also.

He keeps us supplied with information,when we pretend that we have forgotten it.And inspires.

KayElleSF

10/21/2018 11:59:33 pm

Until there is absolute confirmation that The Exorcist letter is not authentic, I will continue to lean towards it being from the Zodiac himself. I base this mostly on tone and the look of the handwriting (obviously not scientific, just my opinion).

I don't know what to make of the DNA reporting as a whole. With so much vague and conflicting information, it's hard to put much stock into any of it.

Nobody

10/22/2018 12:19:00 am

Very true KayElle. Until I hear that "Breaking News!" announcement on TV, I will not be believing any of the rumor mills that have been busily churning out pieces of misleading "factoids" that have been borrowed or invented.

KayElleSF

10/22/2018 01:19:38 am

I agree, Nobody. Here's to hoping something definitive will break soon. Fingers crossed.

KayElleSF

10/22/2018 01:27:02 am

Even so, I very much appreciate Richard's analysis on the topic of DNA. It helps to know what's out there so we can glean what we want to from it all.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/22/2018 12:44:07 am

Yes,KayElleSF and Nobody,I agree about the authenticity of the Exorcist Letter.Plus,Marco Spinelli refers to it ''subliminally'',in a Count Marco column,one week,prior to Spinelli's Editor,receiving the Count Marco Letter.

Just a quick post,Richard,in case I forget :

That December 16th Fairfield Letter,back to haunt us,again [?].

I checked out the ''You will not catch me...'' numbers,in order,including ''Zodiac's'' arrow amendment.

We have : 3168938

Now,on a basis of the ''simplest'' substitution of all....A=1,B=2...etc

We see emerging : C A F H I C H

California Highway Patrol....something [?].

How about ''California Highway Patrol Choppers''.

After all,the CHIPs,did sometimes use ''choppers''.Also,it could have just been colloquial terminology,for ''motorbikes'',then [?].

So,that could solve,the ''You will not catch me'' riddle.

In addition,I note that the ''mirror image'' N,in ''Knife'',on the back of the Halloween Card,could just be highlighting the alphabetic letter ''N''.

''N'' is the fourteenth letter in the alphabet.

With,of course,Paul Avery,the ''toyful'' 14th proposed victim,by Zodiac.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/22/2018 12:53:56 am

....that really is the solution,I feel :

'' California Highway Choppers ''

Judith

10/22/2018 07:03:41 am

If a full reliable Zodiac Killer DNA sample existed before May 2nd of 2018 there would have been no reason for VPD to announce that they would be sending evidence out to a lab for DNA retrieval. My guess here is that they will recover multiple DNA profiles not knowing for sure which one belongs to the Killer. From there much work will need to be done to determine which of the many profiles actually belongs to the zodiac. I am still very confident that this work will be achieved. Watched 60 Minutes last night and saw the segment on our lady of the DNA God bless her soul.
Spent the weekend on San Francisco Bay on a boat on Pier 39. Stopped in Vallejo on Springs Road on the way down from Sacramento. It takes no time to cross the bridge into Contra Costa County and the El Sobrante area.

Richard

10/22/2018 08:17:17 am

If Alan keel is correct then there should be full DNA profiles on the 78 letter and another 74 letter. But without having spoken to him personally or having been in the lab during testing, it could be classed as hearsay. Mike Rodelli states what Keel said, but unfortunately that isn't proof. However, they claimed the 78 letter "not authentic Zodiac correspondence". You cannot do this by handwriting alone. If they know it's not Zodiac, this can only have been done by knowing the person who contributed the DNA to the 78 letter, who they knew wasn't Zodiac. Unless the profile was a woman.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/22/2018 01:58:37 pm

It's a good topic for debate,Richard...but one,where we can only really stand back,and then offer an opinion on sight and hearsay.

The ''Sla'' note,and the April 1978 letter,look ''pretty dodgy'' to me.The first,on sight,and the second on the composition,being too basic.

But,both are officially authenticated,and Mr.Rodelli should have done more research on the consequences of the Toschi Fan Mail scandal.

We have,in front of us,if you will,a collection of authenticated correspondence....and a collection of correspondence,termed ''unconfirmed'',because,we presume,it doesn't meet all the requirements,set by the CA DOJ and FBI,as advisors.

The ''unconfirmed'' are nevertheless the ''cream'' of questionable correspondence.

It seems very difficult,therefore,to simply ''elect'' to put a black mark against any document,termed ''authenticated''.

Do we really imagine that the CA DOJ have any of the ''authenticated'' plain wrong ?

Unlikely.We just don't know the specific criteria,that they employed.

And,whether that criteria remained a constant,with all documents examined.

Nobody

10/22/2018 03:41:54 pm

I am always very thankful that Richard sticks to the questions surrounding the known facts of the case. Elsewhere on the internet we may find lots of "stories" which are generally impossible to prove or disprove. They merely serve to magnify the intrigue and mystery surrounding the case, rather than provide any realistic leads.

One of the more bizarre stories in fairly recent times is the account given by retired lawyer Robert Tarbox. Tarbox claimed that a "seafaring man" visited him in the early 1970s and paid him $50 for a consultation relating to an injury compensation claim. Instead, the client told Tarbox that he was the wanted man known as the Zodiac and he spent an hour talking about his crime spree and asking questions about the possible legal consequences. Tarbox relates that he was very shaken up by the experience. The reason that he may have respected the confidentially of the clients confession is understandable, because he clearly would have feared for his life.

But as is the case with nearly all of these stories about the Zodiac, this one seems "all too convenient". It is of course plausible for the reasons related by Robert Graysmith. One wonders if Tarbox has left instructions in his Will that the naming of the mysterious person be read on his passing? That is if he really considers client confidentiality must outweigh the concept of ethical social justice?

There is of course the possibility that the mystery man had a mental condition and was providing a fake story, and even if true the name he provided may have been a fake name. So what if we finally learn the name of the man claiming to be the Zodiac in future, only to be told that there never was a seafarer who used that name? Or the person does exist and simply denies that he ever visited the lawyer? His prints/DNA fail to match, so case closed. Another big waste of time.

The fact that this person, if true, conceivably left prints on the door handles and desk and elsewhere in the office, (presuming he had not been wearing gloves) and the police were never notified is a shame, to say the least. But is it perhaps an all too "convenient" shame?

Stories like these always seem to rely on a certain amount of intrigue and suspense. It is like "Well it could have happened, but is just out of reach, but someday in future it will all be revealed, I promise, maybe."

We have of course seen it all before, far too many times. It is perhaps easier for some to drift off into flights of fancy because the reality is just too confusing, frustrating and challenging.

So once again, a big thank you from me to Richard for always trying to "keep it real".

Toots

11/3/2018 08:29:05 pm

I've received word from my Sacramento LE contact that 1970 Bennallack's suspect DNA is being sequenced and submitted to GED match. This is after they reviewed my research, which they sent to FBI ViCap to analyze and look for more victims. This is good news.

On a different topic, anyone have thoughts on Whitey Bulger's murder in prison this week?

11/4/2018 04:44:41 pm

Good Riddance

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THE SEARCH FOR ZODIAC DNA

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