THE SEARCH FOR THE UNHOLY GRAIL

10/5/2018

Zodiac- Mysteries at the Museum just aired on the Travel Channel on October 3rd 2018. The first 38 minutes is a routine retelling of the Zodiac case, leaving only the remaining 2 1/2 minutes of any note.

The narrator states "The actual Zodiac evidence was collected in a state laboratory in May 2018, who then sent it to a genealogical laboratory in Florida. Analysts then looked for similarities between the Zodiac profile and family members who have already submitted DNA to a public database. If they find a match, genealogists will then create a family tree that could eventually lead them to the Zodiac Killer."

If these statements were true (which hasn't been verified by an official source), then it implies that a viable DNA sample has been sourced from the Zodiac Killer stamps and/or envelope seals, and submitted to GEDmatch for entry into the genealogical database.

In May 2018, the Sacramento Bee stated "Investigators searching for the Zodiac Killer have submitted evidence to a private DNA lab in the hopes of obtaining a genetic profile of one of California's most elusive criminals — then tracking him down using the same kind of family-tree tracing recently used in the East Area Rapist case. Vallejo police Detective Terry Poyser, who has worked the Zodiac case for four years, said his agency has submitted two envelopes that contained letters from the Zodiac Killer for a type of advanced DNA analysis that previously had not been available in the case. Poyser declined to identify the lab, but said it would attempt to obtain a full DNA profile from saliva on the envelope flap and stamps. He said he expected to have results back from the lab as soon as in the next few weeks, and almost certainly by summer."

If this advanced DNA analysis was successful on the two July 31st 1969 envelopes, and created a Zodiac DNA profile of sufficient information to be submitted to a genealogy database, then it would be sent to GEDmatch in Florida in hope of a familial match. The 'Mysteries at the Museum' episode seems to suggest this has already been done, and would indicate that a viable sample of DNA has been recovered from the Zodiac letters after 49 years.

There have been many question marks over the validity of the tests conducted by Cydne Holt, General Manager and Chief Scientific Officer at Verogen, in 2002. Claims the DNA was sampled from the outside of the letters is unproven, but if true, it would certainly negate any findings, including the elimination of any suspects previously ruled out using such evidence. If a sufficient DNA profile in 2018 has been successfully generated, then the elimination, or otherwise, of suspects touted in the Zodiac case can begin again in earnest (assuming the DNA retrieved is that of our killer). Only a partial profile is required for the latter.

"California law enforcement investigating the Golden State Killer case uploaded the DNA profile of the suspected serial rapist/killer from an intact rape kit in Ventura County to GEDmatch. It identified 10 to 20 distant relatives of the Golden State Killer, and a team of five investigators working with genealogist Barbara Rae-Vente used this to construct a large family tree, which led them to identify retired police officer Joseph James DeAngelo as a suspect. Investigators acquired samples of his DNA from items he discarded outside his home, one of which definitively matched that of the killer. The process took about four months, from when the first matches appeared on GEDmatch, to when DeAngelo was arrested in April 2018." Wikipedia.

"As of early this year, more than 12 million people had undergone such tests, mostly from 23andMe and Ancestry DNA, and the number is growing by about one million each month. That’s reaching the point where nearly everyone in the US will have a close relative, cousin, or second cousin who has given a DNA sample. Users of GEDMatch are warned that they have no guarantee of privacy and that their data could be used for purposes other than genealogy." Technology Review.

In cooperation with American law enforcement organizations, Parabon NanoLabs, based in Reston, Virginia started uploading DNA evidence from crime scenes to GEDmatch in an attempt to identify perpetrators. Parabon said they found matches in 20 cases as of 2018.

art

10/5/2018 09:44:42 am

DNA - my fave topic. Let's hope the narrator statement is correct/well-informed, very promising!

art

10/5/2018 10:24:30 am

My only concern here is the apparent inconsistency with previous 2002 info (little if any DNA found on stamps) vs. the current case (presumably enough DNA for the new test). The new test (thousands of SNPs) is different from the original 2002 test (a dozen or so STRs), so the explanation might be that there is 'just enough' DNA for a subset of the SNPs to yield a valid/usable result.
Generally, a licked stamp yields quite a bit of DNA. If Z did not lick the stamps (as some people have surmised based on 2002 era info), then we would expect no DNA on the stamps. So why would there be just a tiny bit more than zero DNA? Light licker???

Richard

10/5/2018 10:51:37 am

As Mike Rodelli pointed out, if the Zodiac didn't lick the stamps (which I find unlikely), then in handling the sticky side of the stamp he may deposit touch DNA. If he did lick the stamp the DNA from this process may have mostly degraded in 50 odd years, but not all.

art

10/5/2018 11:16:09 am

Good point about degradation Richard, also SNPs are smaller genomic regions so tend to work better when the DNA is degraded.
Though keep in mind it is possible to have a high or low quantity of degraded DNA, ie just because it is degraded does not pre-determine a low quantity. The public don’t have any real data from 2002, so hard to know what is really going on...

Rubislaw 32 link

10/5/2018 11:43:18 am

As a general observation,there has been no official authentication of Zodiac correspondences,for 40 years.

Are we really to believe that the Zodiac has mailed nothing,in all that time,given a fair quantity of unconfirmed correspondences,observed [?].

This really comes down to available DNA sources and,even if we are to believe that his DNA profile,remains elusive,are finding ourselves left with debating the subject of source,on the basis of TV researchers,and the say so,of ''retired inspectors'',whose names we don't even know.

Poyser and the VPD,are largely responsible,for placing the doubt,of A DNA profile,''already in the bag'',and I hope that,at least one newspaper [...the Sacramento Bee...],holds the VPD to account,for ''stringing'' this debate of doubt along.

Unless the newspapers,are in on the deal of real knowledge [?].

It wouldn't be the first time.

Richard

10/5/2018 12:31:28 pm

Just switching topic briefly, how was Ted Kaczynski writing the July 31st letters and mailing them from San Francisco, and attacking Michael Mageau and Darlene Ferrin at BRS on July 4th, when Ted Kaczynski and his brother were in Canada

"The moment that crystallised this yawning gulf between them came, paradoxically, at a time when the brothers had never felt more close. It was 1969 and they had spent the whole summer together, travelling huge distances across Canada in search of a plot of land where Ted could begin his anti-civilisation mission. At the end of the trip, as they were driving back to Chicago, they camped overnight in the grasslands of Nebraska."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2009/sep/15/my-brother-the-unabomber

Richard

10/5/2018 12:42:51 pm

"Kaczynski taught at Berkeley from September 1967 until June 1969, and then quit. It was the end of his academic career. He spent the next two years looking for land in Canada, Alaska, and finally Montana. There, he bought 1.5 acres about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) outside the small town of Lincoln, Montana. With a little help from his brother David, Kaczynski built a one-room cabin measuring about 10 feet by 12 feet (about 2 meters by 3 meters). The cabin had no electricity, no telephone, and no indoor plumbing. He got drinking water from a nearby creek. It was to be his home for the next sixteen years."

https://www.encyclopedia.com/books/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/kaczynski-theodore-ted-unabomber

Richard

10/5/2018 12:45:44 pm

How does he commit the LB and PH attacks and keep mailing letters from San Francisco when he's touring Canada.

Richard

10/5/2018 12:59:40 pm

https://youtu.be/o96XsGoWwSM?t=820

Nobody

10/6/2018 04:23:46 pm

Richard, authors always find a way to explain away these things. Of course, Ted K must have had/borrowed/stole some money to buy tickets on planes, or he hitchhiked, back to SF where he did the attacks on people, then wrote a few letters and posted them before hightailing it back to his remote and isolated cabin. He was not missed because he was a loner and he chose times when his brother was out looking for wood to build the cabin etc.

It is the same as the theory about Dennis Rader being the Zodiac. The fact that he was half a world away and occupied in a major conflict is a mere triviality, because clearly (according to the author) he simply MUST have found a way to commute back and forth at certain times.

The rather obese Ross Sullivan was also apparently able to escape his lonely existence in the corner of the Riverside library where he sat all day long copying drawings from books. Occasionally his schizoid state sent him into a frenzy. He ventured out into the world where he found a car and drove about the countryside all night long causing all kinds of mayhem. He too was never missed during these lengthy periods of absence. Evidently he also managed to take a day off from doodling in the library and scratching desktop poems to drive all the way to Lake Berryessa where he walked down a steep hill with relative ease, donned an elaborate costume that he had made himself and attacked two people in broad daylight. Then he hightailed it back up the hill and wrote something cryptic on a car door and fled the scene. The next day he became entirely reclusive again and just sat in a corner quietly copying and doodling.

Shawn

10/6/2018 08:03:03 pm

If I remember correctly...

In Graysmith second book "Zodiac Unmasked", Graysmith stated that in 1969 the police tested for Saliva.

They found none.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/5/2018 01:20:50 pm

I entirely agree with your points made,Richard,regarding Kaczynski.and I am disappointed for Mark Hewitt,that he should make his recent suggestions.

I listened to his recent podcast,and could barely recognise Hewitt's voice.As if he has placed himself,in a state of private mourning,over his long distinguished career.....now succumbing to a publisher's wishes.

My mother gave me the,albeit traditional advice,of asking once,then asking a second time if necessary,then never asking again.

I did this,not so long ago,of the SF Chronicle...whom I now know,unequivocally,were lying to me.So,I won't be going back to them,again.

But,I am fortunate,perhaps,to keep up a relationship with a well known newspaper editor.I think he knows nothing of the current ''state of play'',and continues to be more concerned about such matters as Mr.Renaldo's latest haircut,and how his Juventus fans might react.

At least that might be an ''in'' on knowledge,but nothing,so far.

The article,to which you refer,was May 2018 [?].

Something is ''rotten'' in the state of California's Department of Justice.

I would venture that the VPD's tenure of deception,sits uncomfortably,with them.

Judith

10/5/2018 08:57:29 pm

Yes Richard obviously someone would need to be physically in the area when the murders were committed and this tends to eliminate a lot of suspects. Gaikowski is one that comes to mind. I feel that the only evidence that folks will accept is DNA. I do believe that law enforcement is working on it currently, they may even have their man. Tom Voigt is intimating as much and charging $25 per person for exclusive access to the news when he receives it.
So, good for science. Anybody who has a suspect should do their best to get the closest relative to do a ancestry.com type of DNA test. From there you will receive the raw DNA which you can easily upload into GEDmatch for free. There are many suspects out there. Have at it.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/6/2018 01:36:04 am

Some interesting thoughts from you,Judith.

This period seems to have a sort of ''phoney war'' feel to it,where everything seems to be up in the air,with many possible scenarios,but probably nothing actually happening.

Unsubstantiated reports now,I see,that the official genealogy cold case team,California,claim they have yet to receive a Zodiac DNA profile.And,a further claim,that a DNA profile exists,and has been sent to a cold case team,in Florida.

In addition,my unsubstantiated claim,that a match has already been established,to a DNA profile long in existence,from an archive criminal case,in Texas.

So,its ''open season'' on gossip,then [?].

Gosh...Mr.Voigt suddenly seems to becoming very ''industrious'' [?].

A number of individuals,appearing to be losing their moral scruples,and bearings,in the last year.Almost seeming to be a sense of desperation that they are going to miss out,on cashing in,in some way [?].

Mr.Gaikowski,from all accounts that I have read,was a very nice,and gentle man.He just happened to hold particular political views,and was known to have a wickedly mischievous and subversive tongue,in private,among his friends.

He seems a bit of a freedom fighter,who actually made it up as he went along.One can't help feeling,that he would have hoped to have been arrested,at Belfast Airport,when visiting Northern Ireland.Instead,he found himself on those marches and political rally's,with the risk of getting beaten up,by the R.U.C or British Army,at any time.

I have intimated that,although the CA DOJ are still calling the shots,in California....that much of the case,has been taken out of their hands.

I tend to stand by this.I believe that there have been a few ''hic-cups'' in the fortunes of the Zodiac case,in the last 4 years.Not least,with the FBI getting ideas above their station,for a brief period.

But,it is,I venture,undoubtedly the US DOJ,who are in overall charge,and possibly ''facilitating'' legal ''events'' in ''unspecified'' places.After 50 years,the CA DOJ have had to concede leadership,to their ''big brother''.

For,this is the time of the ''phoney war''....with many possible scenarios.

Nobody

10/6/2018 04:42:35 pm

I agree with you fully about Gaikowski. These are my feelings exactly. I noticed quite a few posters on the forums who sought to lambaste and vilify him because of his extreme political views. Some keyboard warriors claimed that he MUST be the Zodiac because of the radical things he wrote about. As if Gaikowski was the only young radical spouting such ideology and inciting revolution in the 1960s. It was the "cool" thing for cats to do in those times. Gaikowski was just one of many.

I could never find any evidence that actually incriminated Gaikowski in the slightest and have always found the "secret" Voigt tapes ex Blaine to be highly suspect. At least the material evidence that was presented was always very highly selected and therefore presented in a manner that seemed designed to create bias. Blaine's ideas, including his Mt Diablo code, were quickly revealed to be a hoax by the FBI, which in a great comedy of errors led to him becoming the subject of their investigation, from which he was also summarily dismissed. He then disappeared back into the desert wilderness from whence he came. However the myth of "Gaikowski the Zodiac" still pervades every corner of the internet.

Judith

10/6/2018 11:10:07 am

In all likelihood it will be the Vallejo Police Department that makes the announcement just like Sacramento County made the announcement regarding the Golden State killer. The FBI and the US DOJ have better things to do with their time then deal with this old case.
If some type of confirmed DNA profile has been developed from evidence, then it's just a matter of time before they discover who Zodiac is.

Now what if the identified person is deceased? Would law enforcement be in some kind of Rush to make an announcement? No need for an arrest or a trial.

But because of the VICTIMS, they should come forward and announce that the case has been solved and name the Killer.

Nobody

10/6/2018 04:45:28 pm

The mayor of Vallejo is still interested in the case, so where there is interest there is hope.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/6/2018 12:07:57 pm

You make good points,Judith,and I certainly don't want to sound as if I am any more,in the know,than you are.

What,I think we both might be agreed on,is that,the only ones really in the know,are just a few individuals,that work behind closed doors,at Departments of Justice.

Where I believe some folk,tend to miss the point,a bit,is that,priority No.1 is to deliver justice,to the bereaved of the victims,of this serial killer,who is universally referred to,as The Zodiac Killer.

We the public do have rights,as far as expectations that justice is served,and that the system of ''crime and punishment'' works in a society,for which the system was designed.

If Zodiac is already dead,and the police and judiciary are aware,beyond reasonable doubt,of his identity,then they,LE,will desire that they have covered all bases,on accounting for all possible victims,before approaching the victims' bereaved,with explanations.It would then be up to the bereaved,to decide if they wish to sue LE,for failing in their duty,in any way.

But naturally,and from a public interest point of view,the thought that Zodiac is still alive,and can be arrested,is tantalising.

The ''focus'',at that point,and indeed ''glory'',for want of a better word,will tend to be lit on that ''law enforcement agency'' who make the arrest,and subsequent conviction.

So yes,everyone who takes an interest,will want to see the internment of The Zodiac,in custody.But it will be down to which victims,even if only one,where LE receive the initial ''spotlight''.

And,I would suggest,that the likelihood is,more and more,becoming apparent,that the man behind the mask of the Zodiac,committed murder,outside the State of California.

Judith

10/6/2018 02:01:37 pm

We need a little Justice around here about now.

Rubislaw 32 link

10/6/2018 02:12:36 pm

One of the ''all too apparent'' lessons that I have learned,Judith,is that ''LE'' pay much attention to ''anniversaries'' regarding the investigation of high profile criminal cases.

This,perhaps more on the basis,that newspapers will take note,and speak out....so a sort of ''second guessing'',and beating the media,''to the punch'',for LE,if you will.

So,who knows [?}....the 50th anniversary of ''Lake Herman Road'',on December 20th 2018,might have extra significance,this year [?].

Judith

10/6/2018 05:20:27 pm

Yes law enforcement seems to be motivated by the media.
It's a precarious line to walk when you accuse somebody of being a serial killer. Me myself, having had loaded weapons held on My Head by my suspect, I don't feel that much remorse. But I always thought it was rather ludacris or shameful somehow, for people to claim others as suspects without much evidence to go off of. Do they really know what they're accusing somebody of ? This is really horrible stuff... furthermore how on Earth does Earl Van Best Jr.'s Photograph literally show up when you Google Zodiac Killer?

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