ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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SANDY BETTS STORY-TRACKED BY A KILLER ?

11/25/2017

 
This story regarding the recollections of Sandy Betts has been taken and edited from the 'Zodiac Killer Mystery' forum hosted by Ricardo Gomez. 
PictureSandra Betts circa 2007
The first time that I actually saw his face, was in the winter of 1968, around the time of the Lake Herman Road shooting of David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen. I was working as an waitress and bartender at Flamingo Joe's in Vallejo, when I got off work early to pick up my paycheck from the Melody Lounge on Sonoma Boulevard, Vallejo. The same person owned both places, so I would work at both. I also worked at the Coronado Inn for a different owner. 

It was about 1:00 am when I left Flamingo Joe's to go to the Melody for my paycheck. When I walked into the Melody Lounge some male friends that I knew from Richmond called me over to have a drink and talk. I picked up my paycheck and sat with the three men for about twenty minutes. It was nearing closing time, so they walked me out to my car. Thank goodness they stood there for a few moments, as my vehicle failed to start. I knew a lot about car maintenance because I used to watch my father regularly work on vehicles and would constantly question him about his work. I asked the men if they could check under my hood to see if my coil wire was okay and they duly obliged. They proceeded to take a look and commented "Are you Psychic or something, your coil wire is gone". They knew I needed to go home to Napa, so they removed one from someone else’s car and put it in mine. I thanked them and drove off towards Napa, when I noticed that I was perhaps being followed. This person was about an eighth of a mile back, but I felt I could possibly shake them off. As I got to my turn off, on Imola Avenue, next to Napa state Hospital, I knew that there was a dip in the road that might hide the low tail lights of my older model Pontiac Bonneville, so I turned right and drove like a bat out of hell. I believed I had lost him, but kept my foot firmly on the pedal just the same. I needed to turn on Navarre Street,  but couldn't do that safely on account of my speed, so I turned left at the next block. I then turned off my lights and made another left onto my street. It was at this point I saw a car with its lights still on, parked across the street from my home. Nobody in my neighborhood would be up that late and I didn't recognize that car.


Picture1963 Ford Falcon
​I was curious to see who this person was, so I kept my lights off and pulled up alongside his vehicle. He was looking at my driveway as if to say 'where is she.'  When I looked at his face, I saw the hatred in his 'contorted' face and feared that even by running to my front door I may not make it. This guy looked as if he hated me and thoughts spiraled in my mind that possibly my ex-husband had hired a hit man to kill me, so he wouldn't have to pay child support for our three children.

I kept on driving back towards town, where two police officers in two police cars were talking at the gas station on the intersection of Soscol and Imola Avenue. I got out of my car and proceeded to outline what had just occurred, when the same car came across Soscol Avenue behind the gas station. There was an all-night pancake house there. I pointed at him as he crossed, but he simply looked at me talking to the officers. It certainly didn't seem to bother him, because he still drove into the parking lot of the restaurant. One officer told the other: "Joe you go check that guy out and I will follow her home to make sure she is safe".

A few months later, Darlene Ferrin and Michael Mageau were shot in Vallejo on July 4th 1969. Michael Mageau had told investigators that the shooter's car was light brown, possibly a Falcon. This tallied with the vehicle that had followed me from Vallejo, so I called Napa Police Department and asked if they had noted the man’s name that followed me in the report that night. The woman I spoke to located the report, but it didn't show the name of the man. I didn't think to tell her that there could be two reports, because there were two officers. 
That phone call to Napa Police Department was made in July 1969.

PicturePlastic clothesline retrieved by Dennis Land from Lake Berryessa
Some time later, my eldest teenage daughter was on the phone one day talking with one of her school friends. As they were conversing, her friend heard the family’s other phone ring, so left to answer it. When she came back, she said that the man on the phone had told her that he was the Zodiac Killer. I don’t remember what else was said about that call, but both my daughter and her friend were extremely frightened by the experience. I have no idea if that call was reported,  or whether the  phone call was before or after the Lake Berryessa attack on Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard. It was likely after, because the Zodiac Killer wasn't playing on our minds at the time - not until after the 27th September 1969 double stabbing. It was only then that the realization dawned that a serial killer was on the loose in our area.

During that summer of 1969, it must have been my day off work, because I was sitting outside my house on the lawn in the front yard. It was a warm day, and my next door neighbor Betty and I were talking, when my husband pulled into the driveway. He walked over to us and said: "Who in the world would steal a clothes line". That struck me as odd, because I hadn’t even noticed that it was gone. It was to the right of our driveway along our side yard, however I could now notice that most of it was missing. I had to replace it, so I bought more at the store on Imola Avenue, where I had purchased the previous clothes line. The store was across from the State hospital, about one mile or less from my home. My neighbors and I use to talk about the patients escaping, although we believed that if and when they did, that they would go as far away as they could, not remain in the vicinity. Later, I heard that a woman on a block not far from my home had been murdered. I think the street name was Marie but cannot be certain. 


PictureBryan Calvin Hartnell (20) and Cecelia Ann Shepard (22)
On Saturday 27th September, my husband and I were both working in Vallejo that night. My shift started at 6:00 pm, so I probably left the house about 5:00 or 5:15 pm. I would work until 2:00 am, during which time my daughter would babysit her brothers.

But that night at approximately 8:30 or 9:00 pm, while my daughter was changing the baby’s diaper in the bedroom, someone was knocking on the front door of the house. There was a man at the door, who proceeded to tell my daughter that he was there to look at the house, as it was up for sale. My home was certainly not on the market.


My son had earlier bumped and cut his head, so the man offered to take him to the hospital, indicating that he thought it looked serious. My children got into the man’s car, who had a woman with him, and went to the Queen of the Valley Hospital in his black Cadillac. It wasn’t until later that we found out that there had been two victims brought into that same hospital from Lake Berryessa, both of whom had been stabbed. The next day, or the day after, both my husband and I had the day off. He went to Soscol House, Napa,  a few miles southwest of our home, to have a couple of drinks and roll dice with his friends.

I didn’t feel like staying home that day without a car and asked Betty if she could give me a ride to get it. I got my baby ready, who was 8 months old at the time, and Betty drove us to pick up the car. She got out to help carry the things I needed for the baby. The windows were down in the car, because it was very warm that day, and we noticed that there was stuff all over the back seat and on the floor behind the driver’s seat. I opened the door to the back and picked up a garment made of black cotton cloth off the seat. It had a strange design on the front of it that I thought looked Asian - it was a white circle with a cross on top of it or over it. The black cotton material was about a yard-and-a-half long and 36 inches wide. It had a hole with a slit towards the back, so it would fit over someone’s head. There was a wad of black paper on the floor behind the passenger’s seat, so I picked it up and opened it to see what the heck it was, and quickly realized it was like a mask that covered one’s head completely.
It was made from a paper sack and had large round holes for the eyes, although I don’t remember if there was a hole for the mouth and nose or not. It was square and flat on top just like a grocery bag and there were four 3 inch cuts at the bottom, that were bent to sit on a person’s shoulders. My initial thoughts was that it must have been an early Halloween costume. As I drove back home I noticed an awful stench filling the car. It was the paper sack. Whatever was used to make it black was creating the bad smell. So I had to throw it away in the garbage can as soon as I got home. 


Picture
Once I got home I looked at everything that was put in the car. There was a neat stack of things on the floor behind the driver’s seat. On the bottom of the stack was an old dictionary, and positioned on top of that was a green plastic template with letters of the alphabet on it, and four circle cut outs, from small to large, underneath the letters. It had been used, because I could see the dark ink inside the block letters. Next to the dictionary was a ruler from Heald College and two erasers, one was a large grey one, the other pink and smaller in size. On top of the green plastic was an ammo can filled with felt tipped pens, arranged  like perhaps an artist would have, except most of the pens were very dark - one was orange or red, one was white.

At the bottom of the ammo can were three earrings, one of them was screw on with a small cross, along with a girls Timex watch with a thin grey leather band. A silver colored protractor was also inside the can with a small pencil at one end. In addition, at the very bottom, was a tiny Catholic mass book- the page that would have had the owner's name on it was torn off.
On the back seat was a clear plastic name tag, in which the name Daniel Perez was written on white paper.

When my husband came home I asked him if he had given someone a ride, because there were some strange things in the back seat of the car.  He assured me that no one had been in the car except him, and he didn’t see anything in the back seat when he got in to drive. 
I surmised that maybe some guy worse the wear for drink or cannabis had mistook our car for his and put it all there. 


PictureDarlene Ferrin (22)
During the Vallejo springtime of 1969, my soon to be ex-husband and myself, leased Jay’s Governor’s room on Sonoma Boulevard, across from James Sear’s, where Darlene was starting to buy her very expensive clothes. Where she got the money to do that, was something that her family didn’t understand, but nevertheless had a bad feeling about.
 

On Saturday nights my husband would hire a bartender to do his job- I was the waitress and would have to keep an eye on the bartenders to make sure they weren’t tapping the till. My husband would go to the Vallejo Speedway to offer the winner of the main event and his crew free drinks at our bar after the races. I was still filling in at the Coronado Inn because the money was good there. It was always crowded, as people would come from as far away as Oakland, San Francisco and Yountville.
Vallejo was a Navy town and during the 1960s the Vietnam war was still raging on - we felt a lot of sadness for the loss of these young men, who were defending our country. I lost my brother-in-law, who re-enlisted in 1969.


On July 1st 1969, my father died unexpectedly at Kaiser Hospital - he had gone in for a hernia operation and died the day before he was due to be released, from what I was told was a blood clot. I thought it was unusual for him to be found with his arm up reaching for the buzzer to get help. I wasn't aware that one would know that a clot had moved to the lungs and would have had enough time to ring for help. I was devastated beyond belief, so my husband and I went to Walnut Creek to stay by my mother’s side until after my father was buried. 

Our lease was up at Jay’s Governor’s Room, but a few of my friends still liked to go there to drink. One of them was Don Porter, who I had dated. I had no idea he was in the counterfeit ring that was going on in Vallejo during that time. He was being watched by the Federal Bureau of Investigation- they were watching him in the bar while he lit ladies cigarettes with twenty dollar bills. They arrested him that night and found a lot more of the counterfeit bills in the trunk of his car. I had no idea he was doing this. He was stealing cars, chopping them up, and repainting them to sell along with his co-conspirators.


PictureSandra Betts and Burt Reynolds
I remember one afternoon, he and I were going to San Francisco to visit somebody. His roommate was on the porch - Don said to him that we were headed to San Francisco, but he needed to stop by Dee’s place to pick up something or drop something off. His roommate, who was short man in his 30’s with brown curly hair, who liked to play the piano, screamed at Don "I told you to never say that name ever".  I would not have remembered that name, if it weren’t for that man making such a scene.

​In early October 1969, I got a day time job in Rutherford working at the Robert Mondavi Winery. While I was there, a movie was being filmed for CBS television. The star of the movie was Burt Reynolds, although at the time I didn’t know who he was, because it was before he became famous. I had a hard time not staring at him- what a hunk. The next day the director asked me if I would like to be in the movie. I said I would if I could have one of my friends join me, so we could both be in the movie. While we were waiting for our scene, we were in a room with Burt and a few other actors. I am not sure how I ended up with Burt lifting me up above his head and sliding me slowly down close to his body. But he said in a low voice while looking at me nose to nose, "you are one healthy girl". I still remember that moment as if it were yesterday. I was only an extra, but was a “key” extra. Some of the film was shot in St Helena, Santa Rosa, Lake Berryessa. I now wonder if Zodiac could have been there as an extra or just watching. The film was entitled “Hunters Are for Killing”, also known as “Hard Frame”.

Picture
​My divorce was about final- the children and I moved away from Napa to Rio Vista where their father had moved, so they wouldn’t be too far from him. I got a job at the Spindrift Marina Restaurant on the San Joaquin river, working three days a week- the other four I spent fishing with my children.

I started getting phone calls and could hear someone breathing, but whomever it was would never say anything. Then the car kept having odd problems, like the oil filter can would fall off while I was driving and all of the oil would leak out. Or my tire would be flat while I was parked at my apartment. I was still going to Vallejo to the Coronado Inn at night from time to time and still seeing Buzz Gordon, a cop that I started to date while I was working in Vallejo in 1969. We dated for about five years, not knowing he was married at that time. Furthermore, then finding out that he had gone out with Darlene Ferrin and was a Zodiac suspect. He and I would be in his squad car, go to the areas where we thought the Zodiac Killer might go, so we could catch him. He would have his 9 millimeter ready, just in case the Zodiac showed up. I actually offered myself as a decoy to Vallejo Police Department, but they told me that they had no idea when or where Zodiac would strike again and that they didn’t have the money or manpower to do that. I look back on that now and how foolish I was for making that offer. I always wanted to work in law enforcement and bust drug dealers, or work at solving murders. That started in the 1950s, with the case of Stephanie Bryant who was kidnapped from Berkeley on April 28th 1955, then murdered. To this day I do not feel that Burton Abbott was her killer.


My father, who worked in Oakland, but would drive through the Berkeley hills and past Stephanie Bryant's street to get home in Walnut Creek, reported seeing something or someone suspicious pertaining to that case. He gave the police a description of a car with a young girl in it. That in turn made my father a suspect. He never offered any information ever again to police. I have no idea if the person he turned in, retaliated against our family and is now the man who plays these child like games with me or not. We did have a prowler in the 1950s, who would go into our backyard and run a stick alongside the wooden slats to make a ticking sound. I can remember when ever I was home alone, I would hold our .22 rifle, just in case the person tried to break in. Could he be the same person today?  I don't know.

While still living in Rio Vista and working only three days a week, I drove a 1967 Pontiac Firebird. I was still having problems with the oil filter falling off now and then, and my brakes kept going out. One night when I had a few female friends with me, the brakes went out and we almost ended up in the river. The phone calls were still coming at night from someone who would never speak- only breathing could be heard. I don’t believe I was thinking that it was the man I got away from in Vallejo a few years before, I thought by moving he wouldn’t know where I was, so I wasn’t worried.

There was a handsome guy named Ralph who seemed sort of distant, who would come in on Saturday nights.
He was very different than most of the men who came in and flirted with me. He was the opposite and it sort of bothered me. I wondered why he didn’t seem to like me? Then one night he came in and I walked over to him and asked what he would like to have. He said "I would like to marry you". I thought it was pretty funny that he, who was so cool towards me, was interested after all. I joked back with, "well sure I am not busy when I get off work". We started to date and became engaged several months later. He had a boat and would take my children with him to fish and swim. Ralph would tell me odd stories about when he was a frogman in the Navy, and how he could reach under a man’s rib-cage, pull out the man’s heart, and show it to him before he died. I was not impressed. One day when he was at my apartment and we were cooking game hens, he said something that was disturbing to my daughter. I don’t remember what it was, but it upset her. His friend was there as well and we were doing handwriting analysis after dinner. My daughter made the comment: "Jeez Ralph, you write just like the Zodiac". She was right- it did look like the Zodiac’s handwriting that we saw in the newspaper.​

PictureInspector Dave Toschi
It was sometime later, when his friend was telling me a story about the three of them boating at Lake Berryessa and that when they woke up one morning Ralph had a hood on his head. Now that was becoming too much for me to keep to myself, after all, Ralph had once told me how he planned at one time to kill his ex wife, but didn’t, or so he claimed.

​He had also said to me that one of his fantasies was to commit the perfect murder. By now, I knew I had to get out of this relationship. Meanwhile, I called Dave Toschi and told him everything I knew about Ralph. Dave asked me to get some of Ralph’s handwriting and send it to him. I wanted to get away from him as fast as I could without upsetting him, so I told him that I had a modeling offer in southern California. He said that if I took that job, he wouldn’t be with me. As far as he knew I took the job. Dave Toschi called to let me know that Ralph had only one DUI arrest and that his picture looked similar to the description of Zodiac. Ralph knew how much money was on Zodiac’s head at that time- I thought that was interesting that he would know such a thing. 

​In 1971 or 1972, my friend Verna and I decided to go east over the bridge towards the Spindrift Marina where I worked, to a place just past the Spindrift, for a few games of pool. For whatever reason, instead of going east over the bridge I drove to Verna’s house, perhaps to use the rest room. Within a couple of minutes of being there my daughter called to say that a bomb had exploded near the Spindrift Marina and that they were evacuating everyone off the island. Luck was with us, because we would have been right on top of the explosion had we not stopped at Verna’s first. Whatever it was, it blew a hole in the road 12 feet wide and 12 feet deep. It swept the boats in the marina away from their berths, with people on top of their roofs to keep from drowning. It flooded the corn fields, and the water went all the way to Stockton. My boyfriend, who owned the Spindrift, never understood what caused that to happen. The year before, on July 4th, both of his restaurants were set on fire within a hour of each other- one was the Spindrift, the other was near Sacramento called the Captains Table.

Sometime before the flood, someone took a shot at him from the levy road. Still, I don’t think I gave any thought to my secret admirer being behind all of these strange happenings. I was now out of work because of the flood, but thank goodness I was known to be a good waitress, because  I received a call from the owner of the Sugar Barge, asking if I would work for him, so I started immediately, working there three or four nights a week.


PictureClayton is a city in Contra Costa County, California. View from Mt Diablo.
I moved from Rio Vista to Clayton and rented a home with three other girls. I believe the year was 1973. While we were looking for a place to rent we went through a real-estate agent, who showed us a place that was once rented by some members of the Symbionese Liberation Army (SLA).  We didn’t want to take that one, so we took one in Clayton on Claycord Street. 

While living there, I worked at a place in Pleasant Hill named Rick’s Lounge. It was a huge place with live music and sat in a mall with a large parking lot. A friend I went to school with owned it. One night I had got off work just before closing time, when I saw a man in a station wagon sitting across the parking lot, who waved at me. I waved back, thinking he was a customer who was leaving as well. He pulled out when I did and ended up behind me. I had a feeling that he might be planning on following me, so when I got out of the parking lot and was at the stop light, I decided to make a U-turn back into the parking lot. The man behind followed suit, confirming my suspicions that indeed he was following me. I parked my car near the front door to Rick’s and ran towards the door. The man stepped on the gas to try and run me over. He had light hair, styled in a crew-cut. I don’t remember his face, but recalled that he looked older than me. His station wagon had wooden panels, with a rack on top- a conservative looking car unlike what a young person would be driving. I didn’t connect this incident with my secret admirer either. Unless he had different wigs, he didn’t look like the man in Vallejo in 1968, who had dark brown hair. 

While still living on Claycord in Clayton, the girls and I noticed a man hanging around in an orange Volkswagen. He would just sit in his car near our home. I can remember his face as being real red looking, more than just flushed. He possibly had a skin condition, like a rash. We started to get the same sort of calls that I had received when I lived in Napa and Rio Vista, just someone breathing on the other end. Then one day there was a voice that said "I just want you to know, I know where you live". I could hear music playing in the background, but it wasn’t anything that I recognized, such as Rock and Roll, Country or Jazz. 

By then I was dating Mike, someone who was in my life up until a few years ago. We maintained a friendship for many years, until he married. But one day stood out, that I still can’t forget. We had spent the night together in Concord at his place, and in the morning while Mike was in the shower, I was still in bed waiting for my turn to shower. I heard a slight noise at the window that was about six feet from the bed. I opened my eyes and saw a large muscular hairy arm coming through the open window. I let out a scream and the man left. Mike tried to see if he could see anything out the window, but the man was out of sight. Could that be the same person who was harassing me? How could one person have so many strange things happening to them. No one I know of, has had anything even remotely close to what I had going on- even now it only happens to me and Pam Huckaby. Not so much her anymore, she is in a gated community in another state.


PictureLisa Dickinson
Around 1973, I had saved up enough money to put a down payment on a condominium in Walnut Creek, just off Ygnacio Valley Road. It was very close to Heather Farm Park, once owned by Bing Crosby, but later remembered for the abduction site of a young girl on a bike, who has never been found. That took place while I was living there and she was a school mate of my son at that time. Lisa Dickinson (9) was last seen near the Pleasant Hill station of the Bay- Area Rapid Transit on September 5th 1976. 

By now, I am at Pier 29, Family Restaurant in Oakland, working for the same owner of the Spindrift restaurant, Harry Schilling Senior. Only now I am working five nights a week instead of three. One night I was driving home from Pier 29, when I noticed someone was behind me for a long time, so thinking I am being followed again. I remembered reading that it is a good idea to drive to a police station, so when I got to Walnut Creek I drove to the police station and started to honk the horn to get help. That worked right away, as an officer came to the car. I told him that an orange Volkswagen was following me all the way from Oakland and should be showing up in a second. The person following me must not have known Walnut Creek very well, or he would have known that is where the police station is located. They spoke to the man in the Volkswagen, who said yes he followed me because he liked me, but meant no harm. He said that he was from the Alameda Navy Base. They sent him on his way and I drove to my apartment. I always looked in my rear view mirror to make sure I wasn’t being followed and still do that to this day.​


The odd phone calls were still coming- I am not sure if I connected them to all of the other calls or not. One call was a man who said that he was doing a thesis and needed to ask me questions. I forgot everything he asked, but the questions became uncomfortable and I knew whoever this man was, he wasn’t a nice person. He started asking me about my daughter who was 16 years old. I wanted to get this person caught and tried to set him up. I called the police and told them everything, but the man was never caught. Could that man be the one who is bothering me still? I have no way of knowing for sure. If he was my stalker, was he upset at all the guys I dated. Did he think I was a lot like Darlene.

In 1975 I met someone, fell in love and married him two years later. He lied to me about his age and over time he became fourteen years younger than I. He is the one who taught me all about guns and how to shoot. We joined the American Sportsman Club and went hunting, fishing and camping whenever we had a chance. My children loved the camping part of it. That wasn't so new to me- I grew up camping with my parents and frequented Lake Berryessa to camp many times, as well as the coast of Jenner and Fort Bragg.
PictureAntioch is a city in Contra Costa County, California
From 1977 to 1982 my name was changed and I had moved from Walnut Creek, so I felt more comfortable during that period in my life. The only bad thing that took place was with one of my best friends Dana, who moved about the same time as I did, to the town of Antioch. I do interior decorating and my friend Dana wanted me to wallpaper her kitchen. We each borrowed three wallpaper books to take to her home, so we could pick out which would look the best. She was so happy about buying her first home at the age of only 24. That was the day before her parents found her body on the kitchen floor, on my birthday.

The night before I had received a phone call about 9:30 pm, no one spoke, so I hung up and took the phone off of the hook so we could get some sleep without anymore calls. It was the next day that I was told by my other friend that Dana was dead. It was made to look like a suicide- she was shot with a .22 weapon, which she owned for protection. The gun was found in her living room near the front door, yet her body was in the kitchen several feet away. Her phone was found off the hook. 

Dana's mother asked if we would clean up the kitchen floor where her body was found - we did. I also fixed Dana's hair for her funeral, which is when I noticed that someone had cut her hair. I was the one who she would ask to cut her hair and it was longer the last time I saw her, which was only a few day before. While I was sitting at her kitchen table looking out towards the road below, I happened to see a man looking up at us as he was driving by. He had curly dark brown hair, with a round face that reminded me of the man from Vallejo in 1968. It was almost a surprised look he had on his face when he saw us there. Could he be the one who killed our dear friend and made it look like a suicide. It was because her home was locked up, that the Antioch Police Department believed she had killed herself. The patio door had a automatic pen that would lock it if you closed it. Did the police ever ask her friends any questions about Dana- no they did not. I believe Dana was murdered. She was very happy and had a lot to look forward to. Who plans on decorating their brand new home and shoots themselves instead.


My young husband was a bit spoiled by his mother. She gave him anything he wanted, so he didn’t have much incentive to work. I was earning enough to take care of us all. Because my credit was very good, he bought a boat without mentioning it to me. This made me responsible for all of the payments, which I was not happy about. It was about 5 years into that marriage, when I had a feeling that he was straying. Long story short, I filed for divorce, filled his boat with his clothes and sent him home to his mother. 

When I changed my name back to Betts, it wasn’t long before the odd phone calls started up again. I started to notice someone following me again. He was clever, as he would park at different areas he knew I would pass by, and then he would pull out and follow. A few times he would wait on the side of the highway and then pull out thinking that I didn’t notice. One was a Chevrolet truck with a gun rack- it held a large rifle. I memorized many of the license plate numbers, when one day I spotted one older green car with a plate I had seen before. This time I followed him. It was Veterans Day (11th November) in the late 1980s.

Three or four days later, I was in Lyons Restaurant drinking coffee, talking to my friend who tended bar there, when my car alarm went off. One of the waitresses knew my car and told me it was going off. Something told me it was a ploy for me to go outside, so I went to the door and used my clicker to shut the alarm off. About an hour later, I left for Alameda to do some work at one of my friend’s homes, before going to work in Oakland. As I got to the tunnel that separated Orinda and Oakland, I heard a shot, but wasn’t sure if it was a backfire or not. Then half way into the tunnel I heard another shot - this time I knew it was gunfire, so I started to weave around to hopefully evade being struck. As I was coming out of the tunnel the last shot rang out. Then I saw him, in an older blue Cadillac Convertible. He drove past me pretty fast, so I didn’t get the plate number that time. I knew better than to try and catch up with him as he headed towards Hayward. When I got to my friends home in Alameda, I called to make sure that it was reported and was told that others had reported it too. A few months later I wanted to get a copy of the report and was told that because no one was hurt, it wasn’t kept. 

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By 1989, I knew that the man I believed to be Zodiac was stalking me and following me almost every day and night, to and from work. He was becoming more bold- he didn’t seem to care if I was on to him or not. It was as if he and RH were taking turns taunting me. One day I was on my way to work in Oakland, when I stopped at a post office box on 23rd Avenue. I had some information I was sending to the Department of Justice in Sacramento. I didn’t notice until I parked next to the box that RH was right behind me, parking as well. He was in a faded red car, like a boxy Volkswagen, with a plate that read K0K0-  I believe I knew about the Mikado by then, because seeing the word Koko on the plate was a clever move on his part. I got out of the car, mailed the letter and looked over at RH. I got back into my car and went to work.

As I approached my workplace, there is a place in the middle of the road, where I would wait for a break in the traffic to cross over to the parking lot to park up. When I neared the break in the middle of the road I saw a brown wallet. I didn’t pick it up because it was too dangerous to do that, but went to my manager, told her about the wallet and went with her to retrieve it. It contained a driver’s license, with a picture of a male on it, so my manager said she would try to find that person and return the wallet. I don’t remember the name on that license or if she found the owner or not. To this day I wonder if that wallet was some sort of a plant or not, for me to get out of my car and get run over by a hit and run driver.​

One Sunday afternoon, a man and two women came in and ordered drinks. The gentleman went over to the piano to play a tune. One of the women said Ron "could you please play------". For whatever reason I had the gut feeling the man was Ron Pimentel, and as it turned out I was correct. I had read about him in Robert Graysmith’s Zodiac  book. I told him a little bit about my stalker. He was very interested and gave me his home, car and cell phone numbers. He told me to call him the next time this suspect came into my job, which by now was almost every night. Sure enough my suspect came in, so I went into the office to call Ron. The phone behind the bar had lights that would show when the office phone was in operation, so when I made the call the suspect knew I was contacting someone. He then would leave. Ron wasn’t there in time to see the suspect.

It was weeks later that Ron called me to tell me he believed my suspect was sitting in a white Jaguar in front of his office. Ron’s car had antennas all over it, with a license plate that showed he was a private investigator. So, whenever Ron would be at my work, my suspect would not come in until Ron would leave. Then he would be there within a few minutes. It's as if he sat in his car waiting for Ron to leave. Ron died a year or so after that. I have no idea how.

I kept my gun with me 24 /7. One of the waitresses got off late one night and was hit in the head with something as she walked to her car. It wasn't a robbery, because she still had her purse, and she didn't see the person who hit her. I then started to walk outside of work with my gun in my hand, looking over my shoulder. I would walk with other waitresses who were worried about their safety too. Nothing happened to any of us walking to our cars after that. 

People reported to me that they saw a blond-haired man looking through my car windows, but when I would walk outside to see if I could see him, he would be gone. That could have been RH, wearing his light colored wig. One customer said he saw the man just sitting in his car reading a book and spitting out the window. He even wrote to me once and said 'he didn't know why he was afraid to tell me who he was'. That was in the late 1980s, before I took his picture. When he would phone me, he would say "hello, it's me".  I would say "hello me, this is me" and he would chuckle. I knew that I needed to feed his ego because I felt that would help keep me alive. I didn't want to be an object, I needed to be someone he wanted to keep talking to. I told him that he and I could have had a nice relationship, if it wasn't for his one bad habit. He liked that, because he laughed, but not loudly.

Each night at around 3:00 am, as I drove the 47 miles home, I would be followed. That helped to save my life, because before that I would fall asleep while driving. I drank coffee at work before driving home, to try to stay awake, but that didn't work 90 percent of the time. Once I knew I had a crazy stalker following me each night, that kept me alert. He would try to force me off the road by laying back, then speed up to my bumper. He did this a few times, so one time when he sped up and was close to my bumper, I tapped my break, just enough for him to see the brake lights. He went out of control and ended up sideways on a hill next to the highway. 

One other time, on a drizzly and foggy night about 2:00 am, when I was on the 880 Freeway in Oakland, a car similar to a silver Honda passed me and stopped at the entrance of the exit I had to take to get home. I had to slam on my brakes to keep from hitting him and spun around on the slippery pavement a few times, fortunately escaping injury to myself and others, yet managing to continue. I am sure that made him angry that his plan fell apart. One of the females that I feel he ran off the road and then stabbed her to death near her car, was Theresa Brown, who was also a waitress working in Walnut Creek and who lived in Antioch. She was forced off Highway 4 in Pittsburg, California. on April 22nd 1988, where many other women were being murdered by a serial killer that has yet to be caught. One of those females who got away from the killer's long knife, lived to tell me, that the man I have the picture of, was the man who tried to kill her.

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PictureElaine Davis (17)
My youngest son Bobby was dating a girl from Walnut Creek named Trish. She had heard him mention that I was being stalked by a man who could be the Zodiac killer. She said she had a Zodiac book she had read and if I wanted it she would give it to me. Of course I wanted it.

We planned to meet up at Lyon's Restaurant, where she gave me the book, I bought her lunch and drove her back to Walnut Creek. Soon after that meeting she started to get phone calls from an older sounding man, who told her that if she didn't stop dating my son, he would kill them both. He would watch her, because he knew when she was home alone and would call to let her know. He would watch her at her job and call to tell her that he saw her there and described what she was wearing. Thank goodness she reported all of this. This was before I took his picture, so I couldn't show her what he looked like to forewarn her. There is no doubt in my mind that he was my stalker. It was a good thing that she made a police report, as that may have saved both of their lives.

Remember, Walnut Creek was the town where Elaine Davis was kidnapped. On December 1st 1969 Elaine Davis (17) disappeared from from her home in Walnut Creek, Contra Costa County, California, abducted in the evening time through a sliding rear window. Two-and-a-half weeks later, on December 19th 1969, her body was discovered floating off Light House Point, Santa Cruz, California, however due to investigators misinterpreting the age of the victim at the time, her identity was only realized 31 years later when officials exhumed the body in 2000.
Elaine's father worked at a Volkswagen dealership. Elaine was taken while her mother drove to pick up her father from work. She must have been being watched by her kidnapper for a while, for him to know when it would be safe to grab her.


The phone calls continued... I suspected someone was on the other end, because I could hear him breathing and sometimes play music for me. Two songs I remember were, “Every Day I get the Blues” and “I Got You Babe” by Sonny and Cher. They were recorded on my phone recorder, as were many of my phone calls. Cards would sometimes be put in to my mail box- one was a green card with an Irish Leprechaun on it and the name Patrick’s or Saint Patrick's flooring.

In Robert Graysmiths Zodiac book there was no mention of Darlene Ferrin’s birthday being on Saint Patrick’s day. This card reminded me of her birthday. Was my stalker giving me a clue to Darlene?  Perhaps he was- I do believe he knew her very well, and she him. He waited until after her death to reveal his name Zodiac. Did she know that he used that name for himself, so he couldn’t use it until after Betty Lou and David? I believe that this stalker believed Darlene and I knew each other - she may have known me because I could have waited on her at the Coronado Inn. But I really don’t remember knowing her. Did she know me because I was dating Buzz Gordon, and she wanted him to date her more than the one night he told me he dated her. Your guess is as good as mine.

PictureKathleen Johns
The next striking date was January 15th 1988. It was about 11:00 pm, when a group of people came in and put a few of the small cocktail tables together. There were about eight people in the group. At the head of one of the tables sat a older looking man with a shaved head, horn rimmed glasses, thin dark mustache, nicely dressed. Next to him on his left was an older looking woman that could have been Dorothea Puente's twin sister. She was a female serial killer from Sacramento who was caught a few years later. There was one Asian woman, who I believe was a waitress at the Box Inn in Oakland's Chinatown on Webster Street. The man she was with asked for Vodka on the rocks- I told him he had drunk too much and I could only give him coffee.

I took the rest of their drink orders and asked the man at the head of the table for his order, to which he replied "Bailey's Amaretto and coffee".
I took a few steps and turned around when I felt some tension coming from the man. I then asked him if he wanted his drink made like an Irish coffee or a shot of Baileys, a shot of Amaretto and coffee on the side. He said he would like an Irish Coffee.
At that moment, I thought how odd that this man had asked for a drink, like one I had invented up on the Delta years before.

I did notice that this man had on very shiny shoes and had on dark wool Navy like pants, similar to the description offered by Kathleen Johns. His shoes were so shiny that the candles on my table tops were reflecting off of them. During Kathleen Johns ordeal in the car, she recalled his highly polished shoes reflecting the yellow lights from the car interior. I thought that I might be going crazy, thinking that this guy could be Zodiac, because he had clothes on and shiny shoes just like I had just read about in the Zodiac book. He even had the headband Kathleen mentioned her abductor was wearing. 
It was also the tension I felt. When I turned to ask him about his drink order, did he think I recognized him as my stalker.

I tried to not think he could be Zodiac, but asked an off duty cop friend of mine to look at him and to remember what he looked like, because I did believe he was the man who had been following me. My cop friend, Ted G, reassured me.
I went with my strong gut feeling anyway. The final nail in the coffin was when I went to see if anyone at those tables wanted another drink. He and a few others did. He politely asked the woman to his left if she wanted another plain coke. She didn't. While I was at my station waiting for the bartender to take my order, the older man came up behind me and touched my shoulder. I let out the loudest scream ever, but he didn't even flinch, seemingly unperturbed by the scream. We were toe to toe at that point, and he said to me in a very robotic sounding voice, as if he was reading (similar to what Nancy Slover recalled on July 5th 1969 ) "I am very sorry if I frightened you". It was the most monotonous sounding voice I had ever heard. I was so very sure at that point, I was standing in front of the Zodiac Killer, and no one could convince me otherwise. He was a short man, approximately 180 pounds, but not fat. His teeth were very stained from chain smoking. I did see a scar like a L shaped scratch on his left cheek and a circle scar on his right cheek. He had light powder all over his head, face and hands. He didn't look at all like the man I got away from in 1968.


Meanwhile, Adrian, the cook from across the parking lot at the 400 Club, came in and sat next to my station. I told him that I would like for him to watch me when these people leave, because I was going to follow the man with the shaved head outside, to get his license plate number. I told him that I was pretty sure this was the man who had been calling and following me. Adrian suggested that he could do it for me, although I had reservations about him getting involved. Adrian assured me he could do it without the man knowing, and besides Adrian was very proficient in memorizing numbers. To this day I wish I hadn't accepted his assistance of help, because eight months later on my “birthday” in 1988, Adrian was stabbed, disemboweled, and left for dead in Oakland. His friends had told me about it, so I tried to find which hospital he was in, but couldn’t find him- probably because it was an attempted murder. 

It was a year later, in 1989, that Adrian came in to Pier 29. I gave him a hug, and asked him if the man who attacked him, was the man he followed outside for me. He said that he couldn’t talk about it. The police officer friend of mine, Ted G, who was at Pier 29 the night I saw my 'head shaved' stalker, had a boat in the Alameda Marina. I would stay on his boat whenever there was too much fog to drive home. He was always a gentleman, but wasn't afraid of anyone.

On the night of January 12th 1990 (Teds birthday), he came in to Pier 29 with two friends, one male and a female. They left about 2.00 am closing time. He and his two friends went to his boat, which was kept in a secure locked boat dock. Next to his boat he saw a man wearing a knit watch cap and heavy coat wiping down the boat next to his. He was happy to finally meet his neighbor. He introduced himself to the man and invited him to join them for a glass of wine.

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Whatever that man said to them, scared them so much, that Ted called my home about 3:00 am and left a phone message on my recorder, and told me that the man who I showed him at Pier 29 on January 1988, was crazy and evil. ​I got home shortly after that and called Ted back. Ted didn’t answer, which worried me immensely, so I kept calling and still no answer. Finally I called Alameda Police Department and asked them if they could check on Ted to see if he was okay. They called me back, saying he had been asleep but was perfectly fine. When I caught up with Ted, he told me I needed to be very careful of that man, as there was something very scary about him. He warned me to stay away from him, that he is dangerous. He never did say what the conversation was about, only that it was hard to understand the guy and that he sounded real crazy. But for sure, he was the man I pointed out as my stalker.

The following year, I sent Ted G. a birthday card, inside of which I included a photograph of one of my suspects I had taken in the August of 1990 (The one with the thick curly hair, not the shaven headed one). 
He said that he didn’t receive it. A few months later on March 17th (Darlene’s birthday), I received one of the pictures in an envelope. There was no return address, but it had been mailed in Oakland. The address was printed just like the Zodiac Killer.  I am not sure if that was the picture I had mailed to Ted, or if it was one of the pictures that I handed out to the females who were being murdered in Pittsburg, California in the late 1980s early 1990s. Was it from the killer, letting me know that he had killed another one of the girls whom I gave a picture to? I may never know that answer.

PictureVictoria Sue Bell
It was Easter Sunday, April 3rd 1988. and I was working the day shift. A young woman sat next to my station and we were talking about our clothes and how closely we were dressed. We both had on black skirts, black high heels and silk blouses. She had on a pink jacquard material, with a shiny pink flower design on it, opened at the front. Mine was lavender, with a high neck. ​I had looked for one more like hers but didn’t find one, so I asked her where she bought it. She told me it was a dress shop in Alameda - Foxy Lady or something like that.

I don’t remember what she was drinking because I didn’t serve her, the bartender Hal did. I believe the time was about 3:30 or 4:00 pm, because it wasn’t so busy that I couldn’t spend time talking to her. The bartender was concerned about the man sitting at the end of the curved bar, from where he could see us talking. I was advised to walk her to her car when she left, because Hal didn’t like the way that man was glaring at us. I didn’t recognize that man, as he didn’t look anything like the one with the shaved head. He did look like a very angry man, somewhat familiar, but I didn’t make a connection at that time with the man I had seen in Vallejo/ Napa in 1968. I don’t remember asking the young woman what her name was- I wish that I had. When she went to leave, I walked with her, but before she got to the exit she decided to use the ladies room next to the exit. I waited a bit for her to come out, but then two more customers walked in and I had to take their order. When I went back she was gone and so was the angry looking man.
 

There were two homicides that I discovered in Oakland, one being a woman with no identification, wearing a black skirt, black high heels and a pink blouse. The other was up on Skyline Boulevard in Oakland Hills. Within a few days of those murders, someone wanted me to know about them and neatly cut out the articles from a few newspapers for me to see. They were put on my cocktail tray, while I was in the kitchen area getting coffee. On top of the neatly folded stapled articles, was a quarter with the number 9 on one side of it, and on the other side was a circle on the outer edge of the quarter and a cross that went through to the edge of that circle (like the Zodiac’s logo). It was crafted using indelible ink. No one saw the person who left that for me.

As it turned out, one of the women with the pink blouses, was named Victoria Bell. Now the strange thing about this, is that Oakland Police Department felt it was someone else that killed Victoria Bell. Seems like one heck of a coincidence to me, that one possible serial killer follows her outside and some other serial killer murders her. Sorry, but I think that there is something very wrong with that picture. I saw Victoria Bell’s crime scene. I did not see any blood near her head, and yet the man who was convicted of killing her, shot all of his victims in the head.
William Jennings Choyce was found guilty of the 1988 murder of Victoria Bell, along with the 1997 rapes and murders of Stockton women Lawanda Beck and Gwendolyn Lee.


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There had to be a good reason for the number 9 to be put on that quarter, so I thought about it and remembered that my stalker connected Darlene to me for whatever reason. Darlene had been shot with a 9 millimeter. Then I realized that the 9th letter of the alphabet was "I",  inferring it was him. "​I" being Zodiac. He wanted me to believe he was Zodiac and that he killed both of these women. I wasn't showing any fear, whereas he needed me to know that I should be very fearful, because he was in fact the Zodiac. Anyway that is what I perceived it to be. 

The angry looking man, with the thick curly hair, was still coming into my work almost every night, but Ron the private investigator could never get there in time to see him. It was the January of 1990, and I had two tickets to go to a crab feed in Walnut Creek. I wanted to go, but knew it was getting too dangerous to go alone, so I asked one of my male customers Frank if he would like to join me. He said he would. However, I knew I needed to tell him that whoever this stalker was, he could possibly shoot at us while I was driving, but he wasn’t worried about it.
I said that he would need to spend the night at my home, because I didn’t want to drive back to Oakland and then back to my home alone. He was a smoker so I asked him to please open his bedroom window while he smoked. In the morning I decided to leave early, so that whoever was following me wouldn’t see us leave. I also phoned the police to ask if they would drive by in case the man was waiting, to act as a deterrent. That took too long, so we left.

We were going to have breakfast at Nicko’s on 29th Avenue, across the street from Pier 29. It didn’t seem like we were followed, but within 5 or 10 minutes, my secret admirer walked into Nicko’s. For him to know I was there, he had to have followed me. 
He had on a rust colored sweater, the same one he had worn when he came in to my work in drag. His hair was different- it was combed with a part on the left and it was flattened down with something that took away the curls. But I knew it was him just the same. I acted as though I didn't recognize him, so he wouldn’t know. I also didn’t mention it to Frank right then, because I knew Frank would look over at him and he would know. I waited until the man got up from the counter and walked past me towards the rest room and the public phone area, behind me. As I was telling him that, the man must have stopped behind me, because Frank’s eyes were looking above my head at him. The man then went around the corner. He wasn’t gone long enough to use either the restroom or the phone- he just wanted a closer look at Frank I guess. I did notice that he was pretending to be reading the yellow Zodiac paperback book. I am sure he did that as a taunt. 

Frank got up to pay the bill and I was looking in my purse, thinking about carefully pulling out my gun so he could see it and then putting it in my jacket pocket. But I was worried that if anyone else saw it, like the off duty cop sitting at the end of the counter, I would be taken away in handcuffs. Besides, I had a small can of mace in my pocket. I could see the man was walking towards me again, knowing that I was leaving. I turned towards the door, so he stood in front of me, as if to block my leaving. He had his hand in his right hand pocket and was holding something. With his left hand he held the Zodiac book up, so as to block anyone seeing what was in his other hand. I turned away from him and took another look in my purse, then started to step again towards the door, but again he stood in the way. This all took place in a matter of seconds. Then I guess he felt that he was drawing attention to himself and let me walk past him out the door. 

I told Frank to leave quickly and to lock his door right away. I unlocked my side and got in, and just as I hit my door lock, the man had his hand on my door. I backed out of the parking place with my knees knocking. I was very scared. I drove across the street to let Frank off at his truck and parked my car next to the Park Street bridge, went into my work and fell apart inside. I couldn’t stop crying, and I knew that would be my last day of work. This stalker was getting more and more brazen and he didn’t seem to care that all those people saw him. I called the other waitress, who would come in at 6:00 pm to replace me and I asked her if she would come in two hours early so I could leave safely. I then phoned my boyfriend and asked him to bring his brother, so his brother could drive my car to his house and my boyfriend could drive me to his home in Stockton. I am not sure if we stopped at my home, so I could get my things to stay in Stockton or not. But these were the lengths I went to, in order to be safe from this obsessed man.


PictureNote received by Sandy Betts
We told his brother to come and pick me up in the morning, but leave my car hidden in his garage. Somehow he didn’t know I wasn’t going home. I was going to Stockton. So he went to my home looking for me- he said he knocked on the front door and then climbed the fence to knock on my bedroom window, thinking I was still sleeping. He called his brother telling him he was at my home, but I wasn’t answering. That was when he found out I was in Stockton, so he drove there. 

I have no doubt that he didn’t look behind him to make sure he wasn’t being followed, because the next morning my stalker drove by the house I was hiding at. The reason I needed my boyfriend’s brother to pick me up, I had an appointment at the San Francisco Police Department with Jim Deasy about my stalker possibly being the Zodiac. I brought with me a tall glass which my stalker drank a “Bloody Mary” out of. It was before we knew about DNA, but I knew it would have his handprints and fingerprints on it, which could prove either way if he was Zodiac or not.

Deasey told me about two men who would be coming in to talk about their suspect after I left. I gave him the note with the printing. I was told by an “expert,” that the printing on that note was too much like the Zodiac’s printing to be his.

I also gave a tape of his voice saying "Sorry I missed you (meaning the shot he fired at me), well I guess I will say goodbye, don’t worry we will get together soon". I also gave him the ruler from Heald College, that was left with the Lake Berryessa costume. I thought that everything I gave him was enough 'if checked', to prove I was correct in saying that this man was the Zodiac Killer. But because they had so many people saying they knew who Zodiac is, you get tuned out, along with all of the kooks. I did not mention the killer's costume in my car, because it sounds too good to be true. I thought that by not mentioning it, he would at least listen to the rest of my story. I had no idea at the time of discovery, that it was a costume worn by the killer. If I had any idea what it was, I would have taken it to Napa Police Department immediately.  It was many years later that I realized what was put in our car in Napa County, thanks to the Robert Graysmith's drawing of the Lake Berryessa costume in his first Zodiac book.

As soon as I saw that was what I had put away in a box of material, I started to look for it. After searching for it and not finding it, I thought it had been thrown out by my daughter-in-law, who believed she was doing me a favor by cleaning out my garage. Either that, or a renter I had in the 1980s, who sold things at flea markets, had taken some of my belongings to sell. Later, I received a call from my ex husband. He told me he had just moved and found some boxes of mine, that his mother had been storing for us since 1977 after we moved. He knew they were mine, because he knew I saved material for my sewing projects. 
I still do that to this day. He said that as soon as he goes through all of his boxes he will let me know. I made the mistake of telling him how important the costume in one of those boxes was to me and to the Zodiac case. I have not heard from him since that conversation. 


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Age progression sketches
http://zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net
​http://www.mk-zodiac.com
sandy betts link
11/27/2017 05:00:34 pm

I know that my stalker has a couple of friends/ relatives, I have seen them with him. So certainly they could have a part in some of it. But he is the one behind it. I doubt that I have attracted several stalkers, who play Z like games for almost 50 yrs! My police file gets updated by my reports. The police are not taking this lightly , I can assure you of that.I have a great respect for law enforcement.I have heard recently that my local police believe that Zodiac is or was living in my town. I am doing a follow up on why they believe that?

Oh Poor Sandy
3/18/2018 02:09:21 pm

You need to seek professional help. Being obsessed with a serial killer and thinking that he has followed you around for 50 years is bat-sh*t crazy.
You clearly define yourself by the Zodiac killer, which is so sad. And you clearly just revel in the attention it brings you. Again, which is sad. Hopefully you have accomplished something in life that you can define yourself by? Or is your entire identity just wrapped up in trying to attach yourself to a famous crime, so people will give you that attention that you sooooo desperately crave?
Get help. Soon.

Jay
3/27/2018 04:52:22 pm

@"oh poor sandy"

This is a classic case of "projecting". Nothing about this article indicates that she defines her entire existence by her relationship to the zodiac. Nothing about this article i dictates that she revels in attention. You are the one who craves attention. You aren't defined by anything. You're the one who is desperately seeking something. Is this story a bit far-fetched? Possibly. But either way you are definitely projecting, bud.

Jack_Sprat
3/27/2018 06:38:03 pm

I'm laughing at the idea that someone using a pseudonym "Oh Poor Sandy" should be finding any need to project in order to gain attention. Oh the irony! This is a bit like a chain smoker telling someone to "go put that in your pipe and smoke it". ROFL!

Oh Poor Sandy
4/7/2018 07:03:07 am

LMFAO.
Jay and jack Sprat you both sound as dumb as Sandy.
Yea, I crave attention. By posting under a fake name on a website that gets three view a week. You sound dumb af.
"You aren't defined by anything".....wow, You can figure out somebody's entire life by a 100 word post? Lol, arrogant much?
And smoking is disgusting.
But thanks to you both for providing me with a good laugh today!!! I'm glad I was able to trigger you both.

Ray Jenkins
4/7/2018 03:57:21 pm

Glad we could make your day. The really hilarious thing about this is that I know the real identity of "Oh Poor Sandy". It was very easy to find too.

Jack_Sprat
4/7/2018 05:19:44 pm

No, the really hilarious thing is that Oh Poor Sandy thinks Jack_Sprat is agreeing with Jay. In actual fact Jack_Sprat is disagreeing with Jay and is agreeing with Oh Poor Sandy. Oh Poor Sandy cannot read. ROFL!!!

Not My Real Name
4/10/2018 11:02:31 am

The term "bat shit crazy" should be changed in this instance to "Betts shit crazy."

Oh Poor Sandy
4/17/2018 08:36:11 pm

Oh poor Jack. Throw out all the insults you want, guy. At the end of the day you are the one who believes a crazy lady.
You know doubt also think the earth is flat, the Loch Ness Monster is real, Sasquatch lives in your woods, Sandy Hook never happened and the US didn't go to the moon.
Jacky boy, you should be ashamed of yourself for feeding into sandy's delusions.

Jack_Sprat
4/17/2018 09:40:17 pm

Oh Poor Sandy, You really don't seem to understand what I have written. I did not say anywhere that I agree with Sandy. What gave you that idea?

I was merely laughing at the irony of someone using a pseudo in order to gain attention.

Let me explain what I meant so you will understand.

Generally if people want to draw attention to themselves they use their real names. If they use pseudonyms, then what point is there in self-promotion, if nobody knows who you are?

Got it now? Probably not. Irony seems to be completely lost on you.

Otherwise I totally agree with you about Sandy!

Noel link
6/21/2019 01:19:14 pm

Interested in Sandys experiences . I am interested in Z case

Lemonboy
11/27/2017 05:47:56 pm

Sorry Richard I know that you are really open to all possibilities but I’m calling bs on this story. We’re supposed to believe all stalker has been bothering her ALL these years?! And he’s Supposedly Zodiac?!If Zodiac even knew who this lady was she would’ve been dead along time ago. I don’t see anything that makes her different from all the people he killed so why spare her?! Sorry but bs..

sandy betts link
11/27/2017 09:38:57 pm

Lemon boy sounds like mike Bitterfield LOL. He has a hard time believing the truth because he makes up lies about people. I have evidence that has DNA that has not been checked yet.I have no reason to make up a story about finding the costume in my car. If I was making up that story I would have said it was elaborate and was so well made and in one piece. But that is not how it was at all, it was very simple except for the logo. If Zodiac would have killed me he wouldn't have had someone to have so much fun with.He likes taunting. I have other proof that is his handwriting and what I believe is Cecelia's wrist watch. Once I took his picture he would be stupid to kill me, he knew I gave that picture to the police and they would put his face on TV. But to be smart, he knew that there would be idiots who wouldn't believe that he would allow a victim to live. You can think what ever you want, but you don't know anything about the real Zodiac.I get plenty of attention more than I like, I am not looking for attention, I don't need it. I am trying to get this killer stopped the best way I know how. More than any of you are doing! The people who know me no better, those are who I care about, not some snot nose bullies who think they know what it is all about.

Richard
11/27/2017 10:19:15 pm

I am sure Sandy is aware of all the pitfalls of presenting her story to people. Sandy may correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe she may have been at the Napa book store when Mark Hewitt presented his first book to a gathered audience and two women presented an account of being stalked by Zodiac. I cannot remember their account, but my guess is it points to a different 'Zodiac'. I have also heard other accounts similar, to which each and every individual is thoroughly convinced of their version. But likely there being one Zodiac, my guess is that Sandy is sceptical to these other accounts, as they are to her account, and unfortunately here lies the problem. If we assume one is the correct version, then the others may be valid experiences, but not experiences of Zodiac. I am sure Sandy listens to these other versions and believes these people are in all likelihood mistaken and vice versa. We have a similar problem when it comes to suspects presented on forums. There are now hundreds of suspects and each and every person is fully convinced they have unearthed the correct one, but clearly, at least all but one are incorrect. The same applies to cipher solutions. Sandy is steadfast in her belief, but like Ray pointed out and Sandy clearly realizes, the only thing that will nail this guy is solid evidence, and until the police get this, the speculation will only continue. As with other topics on this site, I welcome contributions from individuals, and as Sandy has personal experience of the locations of the Zodiac crimes and been integral to the Zodiac circle for decades, it was important to incorporate her story into the fold. The one thing I take from this, is that Sandy is likely very convinced her stalker is Zodiac and that at the end of the day is all that matters. What I say isn't really going to change anything, and making a determination on an account, without tangible evidence, is impossible. As I have already stated, my guess is Sandy is likely sceptical to other claims, as they are to her claims, and herein lies the problem. Listening or reading to 100 different versions of Zodiac stories, ciphers and suspects, ultimately leaves you back where you started, searching for that killer piece of evidence, which is still sadly lacking. Some obviously have more weight than others, but it's a case of objectivity and subjectivity.
If I was female of the correct age and lived in northern California, and presented a similar story to Sandy's, but altogether different and incompatible to the times and locations presented by Sandy, my guess is, and I don't want to put words into Sandy's mouth, is that she would believe I was mistaken in my belief that I was being stalked by Zodiac, because Zodiac was stalking her. To determine if any are correct and founded in truth is nigh on impossible and unfortunately will remain just a subjective experience until proved otherwise. Sandy no doubt understands the problems and pitfalls of presenting such a story, and I doubt anything I or anybody else says will sway her belief. If you strongly believe something over decades, then is what anybody else thinks really of any consequence.

Richard
11/28/2017 03:45:36 pm

I would be interested to hear Sandy's opinion on the possibility this stalker (for the bulk of the the events) obviously was aware of the Zodiac crimes and piggybacked the identity of the Zodiac to instill fear into his 'prey'. In the same way Zodiac letter hoaxers get a sick pleasure by imitating the killer, this stalker played a similar game to ramp up the terror. Additionally, but not necessarily in all cases, the climate of fear created during the Zodiac era, creates an enhanced awareness of strange events and circumstances, and we being pattern seeking humans, look for something to correlate our experiences to.

KayelleSF
11/29/2017 02:40:50 am

That note looks legit Z to me. It's kind of chilling actually. If it's a fake, it's a damn good one.

sandy betts link
12/2/2017 11:24:57 pm

KayelleSF. My friend saw him write it at Lyons restaurant in Antioch about 1987 or 88, where I was living at the time.He did it rather fast so I doubt that he was a copy cat. One expert said it was too much like the Zodiac's writing to be from him. I believe that this person who wrote it, was hoping that I would recognize his writing and be scared. But I hadn't studied it yet to know that it looked like Zodiac's writing.It was a few yrs later when I needed to use the purse that I left it in, when I saw it again, then I knew that it did look very much like Zodiac's printing. I knew that he gave me clues to check in that letter. One was the TV show "People Are Talking". I checked it out it was when Robert Graysmith was on telling about his Z book. This guy wanted me to get it, so he could begin his game with me,but I had it already.I hadn't finished reading it at that time. When I did I was able to know when he would leave me clues to try and figure out.

KayelleSF
12/3/2017 08:34:27 pm

Thanks for your reply, Sandy. I believe your story. I've studied enough of the letters to be able to recognize certain characteristics in them. Maybe it's my English degree talking but the phrasing, lettering, content and tone are so "him" I feel it can't be dismissed. The "People Are Talking" reference is so specific and right in line with his media obsession.

KayelleSF
12/4/2017 05:27:56 am

Ray, I referenced my English degree in an attempt at self deprecation as I am certainly no handwriting expert. I was simply conveying my general impression of the note in my reply to Sandy. If only Sherwood Morrill were still around. I would be very interested in what he would have to say about it.

scout
11/30/2017 03:00:06 pm

ZODIAC KILLER is not under man and don't have bad teeth also ZODIAC KILLER never would leave anything like the hood or paper bag never use those type of elements not even close who is the ZODIAC KILLER reason why ZODIAC get mad people like to use big imagination

Ophion link
12/4/2017 03:10:04 am

Wow, learn how to type! Can't even understand what you are saying.

Truth
5/9/2018 08:12:47 pm

Ophion - I saw your post on the JFK assassination stuff on Francisco Rodriguez Tamayo aka "El Mexicano". This most resent documentary with Bob Barr where he states "Tamayo accompanying LHO proves he did not act alone." Is this finally proof of CIA admitting guilt?

Rubbery_Coleslaw
5/10/2018 04:01:49 pm

One person says something on a documentary and suddenly this is "final proof". LOL! Only on the internet!

Zippy link
12/1/2017 12:41:18 am

after reading this, I think this lady is one of those people who is more focused on attention for herself than finding the killer. Costume in the car? highly unlikely plus the rope from Berryessa? other convenient items found? the guy coming into work and no one knowing anything about him? this story is more an I, me, mine thing and I don't buy it

TerryCat
12/2/2017 09:49:56 pm

Hi Sandy. Is the photo of your suspect still posted somewhere?

sandy betts link
12/3/2017 10:00:09 am

Terrycat, I have seen it shown along with pictures of Larry Kane.The drawing that is shown above is pretty much what he looks like today. (The one next to the SFPD composite). The reason it is with Kane's picture, is that that was what I was told his name was from VPD and Harvey Hines.

In 1968 when I first saw the man, his face was more round , it still is on the more round side than oval , but not as much as in 1968. His hair was curly brown in 68, now more salt and pepper but still pretty full for his age. His glasses are not horn rimmed , he wares wire rimmed glasses. The man who came into my job in Jan 1988 is the one who wares the horned rim glasses and the rubber band to hold his glasses on. He has a L shaped scare on his left cheek and the same circle scar on his right cheek as the Honcho suspect has. That is why I thought they could be the same man. Three months later on Easter Sunday, the Honcho man came in with thick curly hair that was not a wig, no way can hair grow that fast. That is when I realized there were at least two working in tandem. Some in LE believe that there were two working together. Who knows if one is the letter writer and the other the killer? Or the reason for the very different descriptions between Lake B and the Stine case, is because one did the Lake B crime and the other Stine?

sandy betts link
12/4/2017 12:11:21 am

Ray the date you are referring to, was not the date the letter was written.It was the date of the people are talking TV show, that the writer wanted me to check out. If you don't like what you are reading, why do you spend so much time reading it? I am sure that you and your friends have other things to do? I will no longer reply to you or your friends, only the people who actually understand what they are reading.

Cal Mahaney
12/31/2017 02:38:09 pm

What happened everybody quit for the holidays?

sandy betts link
12/31/2017 07:37:24 pm

Cal, they must have run out of making up lies about me? I was told to ignore those people , because it only fuels their fire. Now that they have had there fun hiding behind phony names. I would like to let people know that I have not lied about anything that has happened over all these years. The costume has not been destroyed, my ex called a few nights ago, telling me that he is getting closer to finding the boxes that were stored at his mother home in San Leandro. Two of the boxes he found of mine are filled with material. I know that I put the material part of the costume in a box with other material that I save for sewing projects. I do have other blood evidence from the Lake B crime scene, but the police only want to test the costume as soon as my ex finds it and I go there to pick it up. Believe me the day he calls to say he found the boxes , I will drive to his home and take the costume to the Det. who is helping me.
No other people being stalked by who they believe is Zodiac, has ever received letters that can be proven to be written by Zodiac.I would also like to state a fact that in spite of final fury, who said that I am a very mean person and that I have had people banned from sites. I have never done that ever! I did however write to" his "administrator and say that what he was saying about me was slanderous and defamation of character. That sounds nasty to him? I guess that letter was told to this low life shell of a man as his ex wife said to me about him. So now he finds anything that I post and comments under names other than his own, the coward that he is. I actually investigate suspects for other people who have their own suspects. Opposite of what final fury has made up. I can say that I have no doubt the DNA is still on that costume and the case is about to be solved as soon as it is tested. Darlene's sister phoned me two days ago saying that our stalker tried to get into her home and she had to call the police. She got a good look at his face and said he is for sure the man I showed her the picture of. The picture was taken on Aug 10th 1990 6:30pm. He is the man that Vallejo PD said looked like Larry Kane. That was back in 1990, he hasn't changed much at all! There is so much more I could share, but it is probably better that I don't. That is because the more I share the less I am believed. It shouldn't be too much longer before I have that costume and it gets tested. So just hang onto your hats until that is done is all I can say. I wish I could speed up the process, but it is out of my hands for now!

108VBC
12/31/2017 09:30:30 pm

I am a layperson when it comes to anything related to the Zodiac. So forgive any ignorance I may show. I accidentally came across Sandy’s story and read it. My only knowledge on Z is from Hollywood and the movies. Sandy, I did not think that there were any known Zodiac fingerprints or DNA on file? I mean actually DNA known to be left by him. If that is correct, can you tell me what you hope to gain by taking a glass that your stalker used to the police? If they have no known Z finger prints to compare it to, what can they do with it?

You stated that your PI friend was always too late getting to your place of work to see your stalker. Why wouldn’t your PI just stay there for a few hours and wait on him? I mean, if this really were the Zodiac, most famous case in American history, I would set up there for a few days waiting for him. And you stated he came in your place of work every day. Your PI could have parked a few blocks away and walked or borrowed someone’s car since his was noticeable. Couldn’t someone just have written down his license plate and given that to your PI? Could you use that to find out his name and then through records find out where he lived and worked for the last 30 yrs? A good PI can track all that through public records.

Did you really offer yourself as a Zodiac decoy to the police? Why would someone that has a stalker, who she thinks is the Z, offer up herself as a decoy? I am not being mean or negative against you. Just a lot doesn’t add up.

Sandy Betts link
1/1/2018 09:26:45 pm

108VBC, The police do have Zodiac's prints and his DNA.The glass that I gave to SFPD has his right hand print and his DNA. As far as I know they never tested it, because that was before they knew about DNA. The blood spots on the costume would have to belong to both victims. Bryan is AB positive, Cecelia's is O neg.

The PI had a car that showed he was a PI .He would stay a few hours and as soon as he would leave, the suspect would come in. He probably sat in his car just waiting for the PI to leave? The PI's plate showed he was a PI and he had a few antennas. I know he had a car phone , because I would call him as soon as he would leave,the suspect would see me go into the office to make the call and he would leave before the PI returned.

For what its worth
4/20/2018 05:55:43 am

But you neglect to say that LE seem to have "lost" the glass you gave them and the costume is still "missing in action" in a sewing box at your ex's place.

Also your PI was clearly too conspicuous. Sack him and hire a better one who knows how to conduct his business without being seen.

Howard_Miller
4/20/2018 06:21:59 am

If her PI was so incompetent that he could not remain conspicuous while conducting his surveillance, this actually helps her story.

Most people reading her story will ask: "Why didn't you hire a PI?"

Well she counters this by claiming she did indeed hire a PI.

But then we are told the bad news. Unfortunately the PI was not conspicuous enough and failed to notice that he himself was being watched, and so, we are led to presume, her alleged stalker (presumably the Zodiac) was far too clever for any PI's.

Once again it all seems very "convenient".

"Why didn't she hire a better PI?", we may ask. I am sure she has an answer. No money left for one, perhaps?

There is always some excuse, and the excuses all seem rather too "convenient".

sandy betts link
1/1/2018 03:59:43 pm

As usual most of you get very confused! When I offered myself as a decoy, I had no idea that the man I got away from in "1968' could be Zodiac. And Ray, again you get things very wrong. The costume that I knew I had was thought to be in "my attic" in 1986 -87. I failed to find it, thinking that it was thrown out by my daughter in law or taken by a boarder that I had in the 80's who made his living at flea markets. It was only a "couple of months ago" that my ex called to tell me he found a few boxes of mine in his mothers attic, not yrs ago. He moved only a few months ago, not yrs ago. Find the post that you claim I posted "yrs ago", that my ex had found the boxes of mine in San Leandro. You spend a lot of time trying your best to discredit me. Find the proof that you say you found, instead of making up lies. If what you say is true and I posted what you claim yrs ago, it should still be where you found it. Copy and paste is easy!

Big Mike
4/17/2018 08:38:44 pm

None of that is true. Literally none of it.

Tom
2/10/2018 10:04:21 pm

No offence but this sounds like a load of bull. Like it's made up to make you more interesting. I don't believe it, and you should be ashamed.

Big Mike
3/5/2018 10:33:26 am

Lol.
So this Sandy lady has:
Picture of Zodiac (one of the two partners)
Can give detailed descriptions of them
Knows family members of his/theirs
Has phone number of Zodiac
Has the actual executioners costume, that for some reason, Zodiac chose to leave at her house, plus other evidence from murders
Has hand written notes from Zodiac
And he/they have been following her around for 50 years
With ALL that information and evidence, the police would be able to wrap up this case in a day. Sandy would be famous. And the Zodiac would be in jail right now.
To say that the police have all this information and aren't acting on it is ludicrous. "Officer, this man has been stalking and taunting me for 50 years. I have his name, picture, physical evidence. Oh, and he is also the Zodiac Killer".....if the police believed any of that nonsense, they would be ALL OVER it. Instead, I imagine there are a lot of sighs and eye rolls when she comes in with "new" evidence.
Too funny.

Howard Miller
3/5/2018 01:14:44 pm

But of course, you only say this because you are "confused". Just thought I should be the first to tell you. *tongue in cheek*

One minor correction, the costume was apparently placed in her car not left at her house. But really, what is the difference? The story is so convoluted it would appear that Zodiac stuff has been left just about everywhere for her to find.

Many await the smoking gun, being the shreds of evidence from the Zodiac's costume which were cut up into rags and put in Sandy's sewing box which found its way to her ex's place and for various reasons he cannot find them or won't part with them. I gave up holding my breath long ago and in fact the breaths came as long and hard and often as my laughter. The story conveniently changes and evolves as if to cover all bases.

As you say, it is all too funny for words! But it then becomes difficult to laugh when one realizes how serious and steadfast the author is in her beliefs. Then it suddenly all becomes extremely sad and painful.

Big Mike
3/6/2018 04:39:06 pm

I initially was going to leave a sarcastic comment. But after going through and re-reading this story, and then reading her comments on here, it dawned on me that this person is suffering from some sort of mental illnesses.
She doesn't deserve people making fun of her story. To her, in her mind, it probably seems real.
Sandy, I truly and sincerely hope that you are receiving some sort of help, whether that is with a psychiatrist or a counselor or medication. Heck, if you just need somebody to talk to and give you the attention you seem to need - Big Mike is always available.
Peace, love and best wishes are being sent your way. I'm also praying that God will lift that burden off your shoulders as well. The Zodiac killer hasn't been stalking you for 50 years. He just hasn't. Try and shed yourself of that burden. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!

Oh Poor Sandy
3/18/2018 02:02:24 pm

LMFAO, this lady is crazy. Just somebody seeking attention. I made it 1/4 of the way through her fabrication.
If there was ONE guy who had been messing with her.....maybe. Just maybe it would be believable.
LOL - but this crazy attention seeker literally has a "new" Zodiac suspect every where she lives!!!!! Zodiac is harassing her. So she moves and starts dating somebody. Now he is a suspect. So then she moves and falls in love with another man. And guess what??? The first two guys who stalked her.....they are dropped...........and now her latest boyfriend is probably the Zodiac. SERIOUSLY?????
How many stalkers does this woman have, and how come EACH ONE OF THEM is the zodiac????
Tomorrow at the grocery store, if some guy gives Sandy a second glance, she will come on proclaiming a new guy as being the Zodiac. It's hilarious.
How in the world does anybody take this crazy lady serious? I can't be bothered to read this entire mess, but for those who have, how many different people has she accused of stalking her and being the zodiac??? I stopped reading after the third one.
Apparently crank phone call: zodiac
Old beat car has engine troubles: zodiac
Mean look on your face: zodiac
Hell, I've had all those three things happen to me. MAYBE I WAS getting stalked by the zodiac too!!!!! And the Burt Reynolds story was a bit creepy. Maybe Burt is the zodiac!!!!!!

Not My Real Name
4/10/2018 10:53:13 am

So Sandy bags on those who don't use their real names in any given forum, calling them cowards, yet she's perfectly fine if those who agree with her and buy her BS don't use their real names. By her logic anyone that doesn't use a real name is a coward. Or does she have double standards?

And on the topic of not using one's real name, IT'S A SECURITY ISSUE! How dense does one have to be to not understand that? But hey, Sandy, whatever straw you can grasp for as a means to insult others and put them down because you're perfectly fine with stooping to the level that you accuse them of being at, right? Right. (I've seen it time and again.)
To further the point, Sandy claims to have been stalked, harassed, threatened, even SHOT AT, yet she goes to whatever website that she can find to tell her "story." Even going so far as to post a photo of the man that she claims is the Zodiac. And doing these things while using her REAL name. Seems like awfully odd behavior for someone who thinks that the Zodiac is after her. It's been widely thought that the Zodiac may very well peruse the sites that are dedicated to him. What DAMNED risky behavior for the victim of these allegations to display! Unless of course the "victim" knows that there isn't a risk...

...because it's all BULLSHIT!

Karen C
4/10/2018 03:05:51 pm

The REALLY crazy thing is that the whole Zodiac community is like a network that has allowed itself to become intricately wired in to the Sandy Bett's story. It is ubiquitous, appearing to some extent on most Zodiac forums and blog pages. Moreover if you call her story crazy, you will ultimately find yourself being labelled the crazy one. Numerous people have been thrown off forums because they disagreed with her story or even dared to analyze it critically.

Many have begun to wonder is this is a symptom of a more widespread propensity to self-delude? Is it in the best interests of some forum owners to give space to a Sandy Betts section? Are those who keep "protecting" this lady and her story trying to cover up the fact that their own theories about pet suspects and cipher solutions are just as deluded? In other words, they allow someone with a highly delusional theory to occupy a space on their forum so that any deficiencies in the theories of the mods and forum owners will not appear so obvious? Or provide a more believable delusion than the "alternatives"?

There are a great many delusional people in the Zodiac community, and like all delusional people, they are blissfully unaware of their own delusions. Or if they are somewhat aware of problems in their theories, they find ways to cover up the deficiencies. By presenting an even loonier theory they can use this as a humorous and mind-boggling "distraction". Would readers prefer to believe this.... or my other more "watertight" theory about Gyke, as just one example! :-))

Not My Real Name
4/11/2018 03:15:31 am

Maybe the forum admins consider her to be harmless overall and let her say what she will provided that she doesn't go overboard.
That said, she can be quite unpleasant if you express doubt in her story. She regularly accuses others of putting her down and/or insulting her (even though they've done no such thing) if they question her behavior or motives. And then she'll launch into a personal attack on them - proving that she's no better at all. She did it just a few days ago, though she edited her post hours later to eliminate most of the insults and personal attacks. Fortunately a few of us saw the original post and know the truth.
A few weeks back she tore into someone who was simply asking questions to better understand what Sandy was saying. Honest and fair questions that didn't strike me at all as a challenge to Sandy's assertions, but Sandy had none of it. How dare you question HER!
You'll see her say again and again that it all seems hard to believe, yet she gets upset when people find it hard to believe. I mean really, what does she expect?

Having said these things, I'm sure that we'll now fall into the "snot-nosed bully" (the insult seen in an above post) category. Our observations, however, only reflect the opinions and questions formed by what we've seen (or at least what I've seen). I've seen the behavior on more than one occasion and I am only left to wonder why she gets SO upset when the questions get a little tough. Maybe it's a defense mechanism. Many people feel that an unpleasant response/reaction is a good means of warding off unwanted questions and/or comments. It's much easier than answering the tough questions.

I'm VERY curious to see how her claims play out in the end. Will the costume in question along with the other "evidence" actually be found or will it somehow mysteriously vanish? And if found and given to law enforcement, will THEY be the ones to - once again - screw it up?
She has said that once her boxes are found that the case will be closed. That's a BOLD statement from someone who has yet to provide anything other than her story. Should her evidence truly close the case, however, then awesome. Those of us that doubted her will stand corrected. Otherwise she's painted herself into a corner and the only two means of getting out of it will be for her evidence to close the case or for her evidence to be somehow compromised (by someone other than Sandy of course).
Darn it all - the Zodiac gets lucky AGAIN! /sarcasm

Karen C
4/11/2018 03:43:11 am

I agree with your comments entirely. I also really dislike it when posters cannot tolerate criticism and instead prefer to launch into a venomous tirade of insults. I think the problem is that Sandy really does believe her whole life is intricately connected to the Zodiac and she gets frustrated when nobody believes her. The other problem is she often does not appreciate how bizarre some of her stories appear to others. Occasionally she says things like "I know this sounds crazy, but...". And as you say, she promises, and promises, and promises to produce things like the costume... time goes by, one excuse merges with another. On an on it goes, meanwhile she puts forward new stories about being stalked, as if these stories are supposed to keep us satisfied until the big moment arrives. Many people gave up holding their breath years ago. Personally I think we have about as much chance of Sandy producing the actual costume as Santa Claus marrying the Easter bunny.

Not My Real Name
4/11/2018 02:21:22 pm

Good observations, Karen C. I'm with you 100%.

Howard_Miller
4/12/2018 05:58:23 pm

It is true, as they say, one cannot argue rationally or logically with the delusional, or for that matter the paranoid, because such people do not abide by the same laws of rationality and logic as most other people do. To reason with the delusional will only make you seem like the confused or delusional one to the mind of the deluded.

Likewise, sensible reasoning will often only make the paranoid person more fearful. They may for instance begin to believe that your clever and well-reasoned logic must be some kind of a trick, and therefore you are merely a part of the plot to harm or discredit their very person.

We see this all the time on Zodiac forums, whether it be in relation to pet cipher solutions, pet suspects, or bizarre conspiracy theories.

Best advice for the sane and rational is to totally ignore such people. The more attention they get, the more attention they seem to crave.

Not My Real Name
4/13/2018 03:16:22 am

"They may for instance begin to believe that your clever and well-reasoned logic must be some kind of a trick, and therefore you are merely a part of the plot to harm or discredit their very person."

You hit the nail on the hear there, Howard_Miller. I believe that her regular accusations that people are trying to tear her down or put her down along with the accusations that they're making up lies reflects this.

Oh Poor Sandy
4/17/2018 08:31:39 pm

The costume will never be found.
Sandy will say it was lost or throw away. I guarantee it.
I actually feel sorry for her. Must be a weird existence to think a serial killer is following you. She is like the crazy lady who falls in love with and marries a serial killer who is in jail.

Howard_Miller
4/17/2018 10:10:35 pm

+1. Well there have been actual cases of people being stalked for decades by ex-lovers and even complete strangers, which probably gives Sandy's story some degree of real world plausibility. But usually serial killers do not stalk people for decades. Serial killers tend to kill those they follow within a very short period of time. They don't as a general rule let them linger, like a fish on a hook, drawing out their suffering for a lifetime... especially not in the absence of any evidence. It is the chronic lack of substantial, non-subjective, non-contaminated evidence that inevitably negates her stories.

And the stalking scenario holds no water, because those who claim to have been stalked by the Zodiac have clearly never heard of such modern technology as phone traces, dashboard mounted cameras, and security cameras.

I guess I should not be saying such things, because sure enough Sandy and her friends may "magically" release video footage one day, showing a blurry image stumbling around in the dark, or some car headlights following her, and we will all be expected to believe this footage is "proof" of her stalker.

As for the costume, most people are gobsmacked when they read the seemingly preposterous story of her cutting it up for sewing rags, particularly if she suspected the red stains could be blood. I mean, who does that???

Nobody could ever be so destitute that they would have to resort to this, when most charities will give away material freely to anyone who requests it.

Of course Sandy just shifts the goal posts a bit and explains this away as not fully realizing it was the Zodiac's costume until some time later, and then it was too late. She had already cut them up. Sorry folks, but then comes the light at the end of the tunnel. She is going to try to get them back.

Well it seems there was a whole series of "very unfortunate events" conspiring against this costume (or the remains of it) ever making a single public appearance. After nearly 50 years who is still prepared to hold their breath? It is like waiting 50 years for a magician to pull a rabbit out of a hat!

She really has reached the point where she has painted herself into a corner with this whole story. She really has nowhere left to go.

Karen C
4/17/2018 10:29:10 pm

Howard, I agree with everything you say generally, but with respect to Sandy, she does not actually say that she cut the costume up into rags. However that is the assumption most people would make, considering it is a sewing rag box she is talking about, after all. My understanding is that only the white part of the costume was put in the sewing box. The black hood she says was too stinky so she threw it out.

However none of this alters the fact that she has never been able to produce the white material that she claims came from the Zodiac's outfit. And for that matter, whether it is whole or cut up makes little difference, if the alleged costume does not materialize.

Howard_Miller
4/17/2018 10:31:52 pm

Ah, point taken!

Rubbery_Coleslaw
4/11/2018 05:18:36 pm

Many years ago I began researching the puzzling mystery of the Loch Ness Monster. I spent many years living beside the Loch in splendid solitude and isolation, with only my own clear thoughts to guide me. Slowly but surely, after spending a huge amount of time thinking deeply about my subject and engaged in precise and scientific research, I began to gain an intimate respect and understanding of said "Beastie". To cut a long story short, I began to know exactly what Nessie was thinking. This ability to know what Nessie was thinking enabled me to track the Beastie's movements all about the Loch and to solve the puzzle once and for all.

I can now say with absolute certainty that all other researchers are wasting their time in a pursuit of "sheer folly" if they believe they can solve this perplexing riddle, which I myself have already solved. All of their sophisticated modern computer apparatus will never so much as "scratch the surface" on a mystery that is really no longer a mystery because I myself solved it all those years ago.

I submitted my findings to some then "colleagues" in Scotland Yard. For the most part, my findings were well received and I was even acknowledged and congratulated in a letter and received much praise for my efforts.

Further research has led me to conclude that the serial killer known as the Zodiac once inhabited a small dwelling by the shore of Loch Ness, where he kept frequent company with the Beastie. There he also entertained, at one time or another, Elvis Presley and Marilyn Monro. I can prove this because I have a small piece of material from Elvis's shirt, which has either red ink or blood stains on it. DNA will prove this to be true! One day while Elvis was feeding Nessie she got playful with him and accidentally cut his wrist with one of her teeth. Nessie got very sad and depressed afterwards, but thankfully Elvis forgave this minor indiscretion against his person and they made up. This rag will have the DNA of both Nessie and Elvis on it, and possibly also Marilyn Monro, because she held Elvis's wrist tightly in order to stop the bleeding and also kissed his hand. So her skin fragments and saliva will also be found on it.

Unfortunately the piece of shirt ended up in my rag box in a drawer because I was destitute at the time due to all of my years of self-sacrifice, and I could no longer afford to buy cleaning rags. When I moved house the rag box got packed up by my ex-wife and sent to my estranged daughter's house. My son is still on speaking terms with her and he tells me he will try to find it next time he visits, which should be in a month or two, depending on my estranged daughter's mood.

If you don't believe any of this (it would of course be stupid for anyone not to believe it), you can either contact Scotland Yard or try to prove me wrong! If Scotland Yard cannot verify my story, this simply means that some biased and incompetent staff member must have thrown out my highly valuable evidence.

Howard_Miller
4/12/2018 06:01:50 pm

LMAO at this!!! Very clever parody of several frequent posters, all mashed together into one "tall tale". And a very "fishy" one at that!!! LOL!

Rubbery_Coleslaw
4/12/2018 06:09:43 pm

Howard, what part of my story isn't true exactly? I dare you to prove me wrong! As usual, you must be very confused!!! Or are you just being a bully? Just yesterday I visited Nessie again and she was very upset by rumors that the Zodiac died many years ago. She was only talking to him yesterday on Skype and can report that he is still very much alive. But he says he won't be able to visit for a while because Loch Ness is too cold and it plays havoc with his arthritic joints.

sandy betts link
4/17/2018 11:12:54 pm

The part that I put into the "material box" is a yard and a half long and 36 inches wide. I did not cut any part if it,It is the part that has the white logo on it. There is nothing that I can do to get my ex to let me go and help him look through his 100's of boxes. He said he will get to it when he can. Right now he is putting in a new swimming pool. He is not at all impressed nor does he care about the costume solving the case. All I can do is wait for him to call to tell me to come and pick up my boxes. There has to be valuable DNA on that part of the costume. It is very frustrating to have to wait , but I don't have any other choice. I refuse to argue about this, so don'r expect more replies.

Not My Real Name
4/18/2018 03:33:58 am

Sandy said: "I refuse to argue about this, so don'r expect more replies."

Her typical response when the well reasoned comments and questions get tough.

Howard_Miller
4/18/2018 04:32:48 am

Well at least she didn't use the other response: "If you don't believe me, then prove me wrong".

Sandy says: "Very frustrating to have to wait..."

That has to be the understatement of the century. After nearly 50 years, waiting has become the only predictable theme in what is an otherwise convoluted story.

sandy betts link
4/18/2018 09:54:27 am

I am willing to answer any questions, I just won't be a part of your bashing.I did not know that I had the killing costume until the late 80's so I have not been waiting 50 yrs to find it.
As soon as I realized what I had, I started looking for it. I knew that I did not throw it away. When I didn't find it, I thought it was thrown out by my daughter in-law, who liked cleaning out my garage when she lived with me.Or perhaps taken by a boarder I once had, who made his living selling things at flea markets. ( He did take boxes of clothes I had ) When I didn't find it, I gave up ,until my ex called to say he found some of my boxes while he was moving to his new home, that was only months ago.
If I was going to make up a story about having the costume, I would have at least made it sound like it was described, which was one piece. But it was not one piece, it was two, but when put together it looked like one.
None of the questions are tough for me to answer, I just refuse to argue about my answers.So if you want to know more , ask and not bash the answers. There is a nice way to dispute and there is a nasty way. I will not be a part of the nasty disputes.

Howard_Miller
4/18/2018 03:19:16 pm

This is what makes most people suspicious of you story Sandy. The fact that it took you until the 1980s to realize the significance of what you had in your possession.

Yet geographically you lived in what can only be described as "Zodiac central". The Zodiac symbol would have been common knowledge to everybody living in the Bay area for over a decade prior to the 1980s.The Zodiac case was EXTREMELY well publicized. It appeared in just about every newspaper, there was TV saturation during the height of the Zodiac's active periods, then the Dunbar show, and numerous documentaries following. Also there was an early movie. The Zodiac symbol was often prominently shown on the TV news broadcasts whenever they mentioned the Zodiac killer. It also appeared in numerous newspapers and magazines. But you evidently missed seeing ANY of them, as you could not recognize the significance of the Zodiac symbol on the costume until the 1980s? This seems very unlikely.

Your story as a whole suggests that you are a "social butterfly" and therefore did not live a very sheltered life. You also seem extremely astute in your observations about other historical events, but somehow it took you over 12 years to recognize the significance of the Zodiac symbol.

So how you could have a costume in your possession with a Zodiac symbol on it and not realize the significance is, for most reasonable people, just too bizarre to be true.

And since you have been unable to provide a shred of evidence since dismissing it to your sewing box all those years ago, this also seems rather "convenient" to most people.

I am just stating this from the viewpoint of most people reading your story.

Karen C
4/18/2018 03:37:38 pm

Exactly Howard!!

And yet she writes this around 1969, which suggests she was very well aware of the Zodiac at that time. Evidently she was also involved in "handwriting analysis" at that time too. lol!

"Ralph would tell me odd stories about when he was a frogman in the Navy, and how he could reach under a man’s rib-cage, pull out the man’s heart, and show it to him before he died. I was not impressed. One day when he was at my apartment and we were cooking game hens, he said something that was disturbing to my daughter. I don’t remember what it was, but it upset her. His friend was there as well and we were doing handwriting analysis after dinner. My daughter made the comment: "Jeez Ralph, you write just like the Zodiac." She was right- it did look like the Zodiac’s handwriting that we saw in the newspaper.​
"It was sometime later, when his friend was telling me a story about the three of them boating at Lake Berryessa and that when they woke up one morning Ralph had a hood on his head. Now that was becoming too much for me to keep to myself, after all, Ralph had once told me how he planned at one time to kill his ex wife, but didn’t, or so he claimed.
​"He had also said to me that one of his fantasies was to commit the perfect murder. By now, I knew I had to get out of this relationship. Meanwhile, I called Dave Toschi and told him everything I knew about Ralph. Dave asked me to get some of Ralph’s handwriting and send it to him. I wanted to get away from him as fast as I could without upsetting him, so I told him that I had a modeling offer in southern California. He said that if I took that job, he wouldn’t be with me. As far as he knew I took the job. Dave Toschi called to let me know that Ralph had only one DUI arrest and that his picture looked similar to the description of Zodiac. Ralph knew how much money was on Zodiac’s head at that time- I thought that was interesting that he would know such a thing."

So the penny drops! She knew all about the Zodiac in 1969-70 and, one would have to presume knew exactly what the Zodiac symbol looked like too and its relevance to the killer. And yet for some inexplicable reason she did not realize the costume left in her car with the SAME symbol on it was from the Zodiac until the 1980s!!!!

Ah, "Houston, we have a problem"!!!

Howard_Miller
4/18/2018 03:52:32 pm

Yes, it just doesn't add up does it?

She was actively following the Zodiac case in 1969-70, by her own admission, even doing "handwriting analysis" at that time (for what reason exactly?).

We hear great details about the frogman Ralph and how much he resembled the Zodiac. Yet somehow it took her until 1982 to realize the significance of the Zodiac symbol on the costume.

Too funny for words!

Not My Real Name
4/19/2018 02:19:08 am

You remember that you were cooking game hen, yet you don't recall what the man you would eventually see as a Zodiac suspect said to your daughter that upset her.
Seems to me that THAT would be the part locked into your memory.

I'll add this: that part of the story strikes me as an embellishment because it doesn't appear to have relevance to anything. Maybe you added it for the purpose of making Ralph look a bit more like a bad guy, but it only ends making your memory look rather selective since you don't remember what was said.

Karen C
4/19/2018 03:13:29 am

Exactly! There is just so much unnecessary padding.

If the story is about the Zodiac, why is it not about the Zodiac and nothing but the Zodiac? Why go on about trivial and personal things that appear to have no connection to the Zodiac whatsoever? Such "incidentals" and "trivia" appear to have been included for no purpose but to embellish the story or self-promote the storyteller. It is almost as if these kinds of "Grandpa Simpson" incidentals are just as, if not more, important than the story about the Zodiac. The padding (embellishments) clearly help to add to the overall confusion. This is what is so strange. Most witnesses remember only the facts about the case because the facts of the case are the focus of their problem. They do not go into frequent personal sojourns about Burt Reynolds and game hens.

Most police know that when people take frequent sojourns and mention lots of incidentals, this means they are either procrastinating or more interested in the impression they are leaving about themselves than the suspect they are meant to be talking about. This is also a sure sign that the witness is not as interested in telling the truth as spinning elaborate stories.

Numerous incidentals damage her testimony immensely and make her whole story seem "made up" for the purposes of bringing the focus of attention towards the storyteller.

Not My Real Name
4/19/2018 04:02:44 am

Taking a cue from your comment, Karen C:

Self aggrandizement. She's a really good driver (caused Z - or some other poor, hapless driver - to veer off the road) because she's been driving since she was 11. Burt Reynolds was really into her. She's a top notch waitress etc, etc.
Sounds like the behavior of someone who craves attention...

Aggrandizent:
noun
1.
an act or instance of aggrandizing, or increasing in size, or intensity:
aggrandizement of mercantile trade in the early colonies.
2.
the act of making something appear greater than is actually warranted by the facts:
Some saw it as ego aggrandizement.
3.
expansion of power, wealth, rank, or honor:
The department was used for the aggrandizement of its leaders.

Should her story be untrue there will certainly be no honor for her. Time will tell...but just HOW MUCH TIME?!?!




Oh Poor Sandy
4/20/2018 10:42:00 pm

Sandy,
You say that the Zodiac and his partner READ the zodiac forums that you post at. But you post that you have evidence - that would lock them away for life - that is sitting in your ex-husband's garage. Aren't you setting your ex up to be potentially murdered, or at the very least, robbed or have destruction done to his home? Every post you make is putting his life/property in danger.
Also, you always post about the places you are traveling to for Zodiac events/anniversaries. You must not be too scared of the zodiac if you are telling him your travel locations and times/dates.
Finally. There is zero chance that you have this costume. And either way, there is zero chance that your ex wouldn't let you come grab the box that you say it is in.
If my worst enemy told me that I had a box in my garage that contained evidence that would solve the crimes of a serial killer, and that the serial killer KNEW I had it and where I lived.....that f*cking box would be out of my house within the hour.
There is zero chance that your ex is keeping away a box from you - that is just sitting in his garage - if you have told him what is in that box.
I'm guessing he thinks you are bat-sh*t crazy and doesn't want you rumbling through his garage.

sandy betts link
4/18/2018 04:08:08 pm

Howard, I was not the only one who didn't recognize the Zodiac's logo, my neighbor Betty was with me when we found it,she also lived in Napa. Over all those years,she never came forward! Bryan and Cecelia didn't recognize it either.I never saw a picture or drawing of what his logo looked like, until I saw Graysmiths drawing. Until that time I didn't even think about what I had found in 1969, because in my mind it was a Halloween costume and nothing else. Graysmith's book was the first time I saw what the logo looked like and the costume. Sure we heard about Zodiac killing in our area, but who thinks that they crossed paths somehow with the killer? I sure as heck didn't think he was having fun with me. I still wasn't sure until I compared license plate numbers with Darlene's sister Pam in 1990. She had one of the same plates written in her note book. Linda, Darlene's other sister and Leo her brother, saw the picture I took of my suspect and they also said that was the man who killed Darlene and that his name was Larry Kane. VPD told me the same thing. I had 5 children in1969 and held down two jobs, was going through a divorce. I didn't have time to read newspapers or see TV. So to miss seeing what the Zodiac's logo looked like wasn't that hard. The evidence I have will prove what I have been saying. I don't blame you for not believing, if it didn't happen to me I would probably think the way that you do.

Not My Real Name
4/19/2018 04:20:50 am

"my neighbor Betty was with me when we found it,she also lived in Napa. Over all those years,she never came forward!"

Betty isn't the one telling her story. She's not the one being scrutinized. Her not saying anything has NOTHING to do with your failure to recognize what you claim to have had. Sad that you tried to throw her under the bus to help bolster your claim.

Oh Poor Sandy
4/20/2018 10:45:25 pm

What do your five kids think about all this? Do they believe your stories?
What do your family members and good friends think about your obsession and pretend attachment to the zodiac?
Sandy, in all seriousness, you need help. You need to go see a psychiatrist ASAP. You are living in a fantasy world and it isn't healthy.
Please - go talk to a professional. You really do need help.

Howard_Miller
4/18/2018 04:24:36 pm

You were researching the Zodiac letters in 1969 doing "handwriting analysis", by your own admission, suggesting you already had an intense interest in the case way back then, but somehow failed to ever see the very prominent Zodiac symbol until the early 1980s. The Zodiac symbol was a prominent feature on the Zodiac's letters.

Shelly just
5/8/2018 09:05:31 am

She worked as a waitress, worked in bars. You can't tell me that patrons didn't talk about the Zodiac killings with each other, as with bar staff. That's what waitresses/bartenders do! They sell drinks and chat people up so they can sell more drinks. This whole story is a very, very sad case of a lifetime mental illness. I hope that Sandy someday recognizes this ( but she won't ) and I really hope that Tom Voigt realizes that she brings nothing but disgrace to his website. She's a crackpot in the eyes of serious investigators and other board members.

Karen C
4/18/2018 09:13:51 pm

This is just SO funny! Forgive me, but I really can't stop laughing.

Sandy says she had no time for newspapers or the TV, but she evidently had plenty of time for socializing, and speculating about her friend, even going to the lengths of analyzing his handwriting and going to the police with information.

For someone who lived under a proverbial rock when it came to seeing or reading anything on the news, she did seem to know an awful lot about the case.

Going by what she says, she was already following the case with intense interest as early as 1969, to the point that she was analyzing the Zodiac's handwriting in order to compare it with Ralph's. But it was not until about 1982 that she says she saw the Zodiac symbol for the first time.

As Howard points out, the Zodiac's writing clearly contained the prominent Zodiac symbol from July 31st 1969. And for that matter, how would she have seen any samples of his handwriting in 1969 except by watching the news and reading news articles?

Errrrrm!

I really cannot believe that the TV stations and newspapers failed to show the Zodiac symbol prior to 1982, or, if they did, that Sandy somehow missed seeing it.

I am sure with a bit of research anyone could uncover footage and newspaper/magazine articles from the late 60s and 70s that clearly show the Zodiac symbol.

Not My Real Name
4/19/2018 02:28:02 am

Bingo to all of the above!

sandy betts link
4/18/2018 11:36:22 pm

Again Mike, oops that's right Howard LOL. You change the dates around to fit what works for you. I moved from Napa in 1970 and didn't get together with Ralph until a couple of months before the explosion on the delta in June of 1972, so I was not thinking much about the Zodiac case until about that time. Ralph's handwriting was spotted by my daughter not me. In fact when I received the late 80's note above, I didn't recognize it looking like the Z's writing. That came much later.
Nothing is impossible, Judge not less you be judged. For you will be judged by the standards you yourself shall apply.

Howard_Miller
4/19/2018 02:56:45 am

That is not what you say in your story unless you were writing "out of synch". If that is the case, how much else of your story is "out of synch" at critical points?

Your story is so convoluted. Some may wonder if the confusion is deliberate to conceal any discrepancies?

This convoluted (out of synch) manner of writing does seem "convenient" to many people, because it allows you to shift the dates around by a year or two to accommodate your story. This kind of "slight of hand" to cover any discrepancies is what worries me. For a story that is apparently watertight to all questions, why is it so confusing? The confusion seems a deliberate ploy.

You write the following paragraph as though it all happened in 1969.

"Ralph would tell me odd stories about when he was a frogman in the Navy, and how he could reach under a man’s rib-cage, pull out the man’s heart, and show it to him before he died. I was not impressed. One day when he was at my apartment and we were cooking game hens, he said something that was disturbing to my daughter. I don’t remember what it was, but it upset her. His friend was there as well and we were doing handwriting analysis after dinner. My daughter made the comment: "Jeez Ralph, you write just like the Zodiac." She was right- it did look like the Zodiac’s handwriting that we saw in the newspaper.​"

I repeat: "THAT WE SAW IN THE NEWSPAPER".

But apparently this occurred later, around 1972. By that time there was not a lot of coverage being given to Zodiac letters in the newspapers. This ran its course back in 1969.

Unless you can present everything in precise chronological order I am really not interested.

Also my name is Howard. I am definitely not Mike Butterfield.

I look forward to the next slight of hand.

Not My Real Name
4/19/2018 03:08:48 am

"Again Mike, oops that's right Howard LOL."

There it is. The going gets tough so the sniping begins.

"Judge not less you be judged"

What you seem to think is judgement, I would call reason. You taking reasonable questions and comments as judgement reflects something about you. Perhaps a paranoid nature.

"For you will be judged by the standards you yourself shall apply. "

Will you also be calling Howard an "anal orifice"? Be careful, you can't edit your posts on this page. Edit or not, I've seen how unpleasant you can be. And at times to those that don't deserve it. Remember that the next time you accuse someone else of being a bully.
And remember that you will be judged by the standards you yourself shall apply.

Karen C
4/19/2018 03:23:34 am

"The explosion on the delta in June of 1972".

Sandy keeps going on about this, but again this seems to be another historical embellishment. Research suggests that the "explosion" was not an explosion at all, in the sense that it was caused by a bomb (set by the Zodiac, we are undoubtedly meant to presume!), but was related to extreme pressures caused by a flood.

As Howard says, she just shifts the goal posts to suit her story.

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Mustaface
6/1/2018 03:21:50 am

Hi Sandy, you said in another forum that Lyndon Lafferty gave you tools to solve the 340 cipher. I thought Lyndon was a smart man. Could you maybe tell us what he told you to crack the code.

Karen C
6/1/2018 04:25:18 am

Lyndon Lafferty's solutions to Zodiac ciphers can only be described as "bizarre". His celebrity cipher solution for instance was off the planet. Don't get me wrong, I do respect the man for his years of devoted research into the case, but he was no cryptologist. He was a colorful character who had a heart of gold, but I always come away from his writings with the distinct impression that he also had a very colorful imagination.

Mustaface
6/2/2018 02:22:59 am

Hmm, Nevertheless, I would like to know it.

For what it's worth
6/2/2018 04:19:22 pm

Me too. The answer could be very revealing. I remember reading somewhere that Sandy and Lafferty may have had some previous collaboration on the Celebrity Cipher??? I am not sure how true this is. The Lafferty solution is complete gibberish of course. The solution seems to be more encrypted and complicate than the cipher. LOL! It goes on about a "slut youth hotel hide" or some nonsense. I think it was based around the presumption that Grant was the main suspect. I personally find everything that Lafferty wrote about to be rather odorous.

Out of left field
6/2/2018 04:30:23 pm

The Celebrity Cipher was in fact a real celebrity cipher, but it was not sent by the Zodiac. It was sent by someone else, many years after the Zodiac had departed the scene. It was sent as a joke in bad taste. The solution to the Celebrity Cipher is in fact very simple. The solution is based on a mistaken resemblance to the real important person in the stamp. This was part of the joke, to inform us that the cipher is not as it seems, but only intended to represent a vague resemblance to a real Zodiac communication. The solution is "Vlad Liberace". The address we are already told. The words "Zodiac" are scrambled as an anagram. The message is "In his room", the place where Liberace was almost always "situated"! There are no mystery symbols under the stamp. That is just an errant pen mark beside the stamp. Case closed! Move on.

Jack Sprat
4/19/2018 03:46:57 am

Sandy says: "I was still going to Vallejo to the Coronado Inn at night from time to time and still seeing Buzz Gordon, a cop that I started to date while I was working in Vallejo in 1969. We dated for about five years, not knowing he was married at that time."

But wait a second... 1969 plus 5 years...

Sandy first dated Ralph when? And for how many years?

:-O

Well it was the 1960s!! Summer of Love baby!

Then she embellished this with:

"Furthermore, then finding out that he [Buzz] had gone out with Darlene Ferrin and was a Zodiac suspect. He and I would be in his squad car, go to the areas where we thought the Zodiac Killer might go, so we could catch him. He would have his 9 millimeter ready, just in case the Zodiac showed up. I actually offered myself as a decoy to Vallejo Police Department, but they told me that they had no idea when or where Zodiac would strike again and that they didn’t have the money or manpower to do that."

Wow, real super spy, heroine stuff, wanting to be inextricably woven into the Zodiac story since 1969.

BUT still, she did not know anything about the Zodiac symbol until 1982!

:-O

Karen C
4/19/2018 04:01:08 am

Jack, you might have missed this bit. ;-)

"I had 5 children in1969 and held down two jobs, was going through a divorce. I didn't have time to read newspapers or see TV."

Jack Sprat
4/19/2018 04:02:41 am

ROFL!!

Not My Real Name
4/20/2018 02:37:51 am

"Wow, real super spy, heroine stuff, wanting to be inextricably woven into the Zodiac story since 1969."

This cracked me up, Jack.

Howard_Miller
4/19/2018 09:37:09 pm

Yes indeed. She says in her post above:

"I moved from Napa in 1970 and didn't get together with Ralph until a couple of months before the explosion on the delta in June of 1972, so I was not thinking much about the Zodiac case until about that time."

I repeat: "SO I WAS NOT THINKING MUCH ABOUT THE ZODIAC CASE UNTIL ABOUT THAT TIME." Meaning before 1972.

This seems to contradict the very beginning of her story. She writes:

"I was still going to Vallejo to the Coronado Inn at night from time to time and still seeing Buzz Gordon, a cop that I started to date while I was working in Vallejo in 1969. We dated for about five years, not knowing he was married at that time. Furthermore, then finding out that he had gone out with Darlene Ferrin and was a Zodiac suspect. He and I would be in his squad car, go to the areas where we thought the Zodiac Killer might go, so we could catch him. He would have his 9 millimeter ready, just in case the Zodiac showed up. I actually offered myself as a decoy to Vallejo Police Department, but they told me that they had no idea when or where Zodiac would strike again and that they didn’t have the money or manpower to do that."

But of course, because she was dating Buzz for 5-6 years, she is able to move the goalposts to "accommodate" this part of her story. The significant overlap between her dating Buzz and Ralph does seem a bit humorous.

It does however seem unlikely to me that any police officer would be still trying to set a trap to catch the Zodiac by 1972, unless he was just using this as a "pick up" line to attract the ladies. If he was showing his gun, well it would seem likely his intention was merely to impress members of the opposite sex by making them feel safe. He probably knew that the chances of actually encountering the Zodiac would be many millions to one. One would have had more chance of being struck by lightning or run over by a bus.

And of course there were the numerous stalkers and nuisance calls, dating back to the late 60s. I note that she always references the dates by making a comparison with the dates of Zodiac attacks, yet claims to have had no real interest in the Zodiac until 1972.

I beg to differ. Almost everybody in the Bay area would have been well aware of the Zodiac in 1969. Many people would have felt very afraid to be out in a car late at night, especially on their own. The Zodiac was like a menacing presence, on the mind of all Bay area residents.

So stalkers or Zodiac? Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I tend to think that for a person with obvious paranoid tendencies in her judgement, the Zodiac would have been an extremely fearful element in 1969, and such a person would have perhaps taken an unhealthy interest in the case, to the point that the person eventually began to believe that the Zodiac was stalking her. Add to that the discovery that Buzz had allegedly dated Ferrin, and it is not hard to see how fear coupled with paranoid could have led to this extraordinary tale.

noel link
6/21/2019 04:21:53 pm

I attended a meeting of the minds a few years ago, lake Berryessa. Was invited by a friend. We met at the site where the two were stabbed. I was a bit confused when I turned and looked up at the hillside, it was the Zodiac! I kid you not. I believe that Sandy has a costume because she was wearing it! Very odd to me. I mentioned it to my Chief of police friend..... he said" who is this nut job?? You friends with her? I said "no I don't have friends that would do something that stupid!" He said .. she is lucky no one shot her!! So, she says that she has a costume , she is not lying . She made it herself.. lol!!!

Not My Real Name
4/20/2018 02:33:32 am

"Whatever that man said to them, scared them so much, that Ted called my home about 3.00 am and left a phone message on my recorder, and told me that the man who I showed him at Pier 29 on January 1988, was crazy and evil.
​I got home shortly after that and called Ted back. Ted didn’t answer, which worried me immensely, so I kept calling and still no answer. Finally I called Alameda Police Department and asked them if they could check on Ted to see if he was okay. They called me back, saying he had been asleep but was perfectly fine.
When I caught up with Ted, he told me I needed to be very careful of that man, as there was something very scary about him. He warned me to stay away from him, that he is dangerous. He never did say what the conversation was about, only that it was hard to understand the guy and that he sounded real crazy."

Another dubious claim. Just as she forgot what Ralph said to her daughter, she doesn't know what terrible things were said to Ted and his friends. Ted is so disturbed that he calls her at 3:00AM, but opts not to explain or justify that early morning phone call by telling her what was actually said. Hmmm.
When the rubber hits the road in Sandy's story, the treads peel off. Why are the terrible things that people say omitted? Gee, it's as if they weren't said at all. Are we supposed to just take her word that these things were said?

And too bad Ted didn't get the picture that Sandy sent him. If he had, then there would be validation of her claim. The benefit of him not receiving it is two-fold. First, there's the implication that it may have been somehow commandeered (presumably by Z, of course). This adds to the mysterious aura that surrounds her story.
Second, it helps ensure that her story can't be disproved.

I guess we DO just have to take her word.

Howard_Miller
4/20/2018 03:18:54 am

LOL! Yes, that one is an absolute classic. There are a lot of these kinds of "He said, she said" statements that nobody could ever possibly verify today, and the actual circumstances and context behind them are always presented in a way that seems obscure and blurred.

Always it is someone else telling her someone else is dangerous and crazy etc. All highly subjective. For all we know the person telling her things about other people might be the real crazy one.

"Ted is so disturbed that he calls her at 3:00AM, but opts not to explain or justify that early morning phone call by telling her what was actually said. Hmmm."

Exactly, so what was the point of him calling except to alarm her without any real explanation! LOL! Most people would not take another person's word for it and ask the obvious question: "Why do you think he is dangerous and crazy?" and not accept a highly subjective answer at its word, even if it came from a supposed friend.

I was also laughing at the idea of somebody ringing the police at 3 am and asking them to check on someone and the police were totally obliging and said he was okay, just asleep. Wow, he must have been a heavy sleeper. What was he doing before 3 am one wonders?! LOL! Seems to be a lot of late night intrigues going on, of which the reader is kept conveniently clueless.

And yes indeed, evidence always seems to go missing, people never received things, other people have things and won't give them back because they are "mean" people, the police were presented with other things but failed to log them or lost/disposed of them because they were biased, lazy or incompetent... etc. etc. Nobody could be that unlucky to have such an incredible story, but somehow managed to lose all of the evidence over a 50 year period.

Not My Real Name
4/20/2018 03:03:45 am

On the topic of Victoria Sue Bell:

"Seems like one heck of a coincidence to me, that one possible serial killer follows her outside and some other serial killer murders her."

Seems like one heck of a coincidence that you're tied to yet ANOTHER serial killer case! I mean what are the odds?!?! Your story even mentions Dorothea Puente for some odd reason.
You write that a woman that "could have been Dorothea Puente's twin sister" was a member of a group of eight that you served. Unless you're implying that Dorothea was part of that group (and tying yourself to a THIRD serial killer), then why mention her at all? Or is it just more superfluous embellishment?

Oh...and Dorothea Puente was captured days later, not years.

Howard_Miller
4/20/2018 03:34:56 am

LOL! Yes embellishment and extrapolated insinuation seem to be the name of the game!

As I said in my post above, nobody could be that unlucky. Stalkers, stalkers everywhere, her entire life, all tied somehow and mysteriously to the Zodiac killer... leaving things like obscure Zodiac-esque gifts and coded messages on her doorstep, following her around in cars, even secretly entering her work environments and impacting the way she has perceived her male companions and their friends. She has also potentially been tracked by other serial killers too apparently, via her superfluous implications. But of course, if you do make that giant leap in her implication, she is likely to try to cover her tracks by telling you that you are "confused" and she never meant that at all. And yet, the implication is there.

She will of course take all of what we are finding as "bully bashing", when actually we are just using simple reasoning to dissect and analyze what has been written.

Not My Real Name
4/20/2018 03:47:57 am

"bully bashing"

One of her favorite cop outs. It's as if she wants to portray herself as a victim.

There are real victims in the Z case, but I'm very doubtful that Sandy is one of them. And IF her story is untrue, then she's a disgrace to those real victims.Talk about a lack of honor.

For what it's worth
4/20/2018 03:59:08 pm

There can really be only 5 alternatives:

1) She is telling the truth and nothing but the truth. If the story is true in its entirety, it should have clarity from start to finish, with few sojourns or superfluous side-tracks, very little in the way of innuendo, gossip, and hypotheticals will be presented, and furthermore the story will be backed up by solid, objective statements and at least enough reasonable evidence to make it seem plausible to most sane and reasonable people.

2) Her testimony is for the most part an elaborate and convoluted and deliberately orchestrated fabrication intended solely for self-aggrandizement.

3) She is confabulating, in which case there is no intention on her part to deceive, because she genuinely believes it all to be true. The story may of course appear strange and unreasonable to most other people reading it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confabulation

4) The basis of the story is generally true, but the detail has been greatly skewed and embellished due to a deep-seated paranoia and delusion whenever the focus is on a highly feared subject matter, in which case there is no clear intention to deceive.

5) A mixture of alternative # 1 and at least one of the points following it.

Not My Real Name
4/20/2018 06:25:00 pm

I'm not too sure about confabulation because Sandy always has force fields around her story. She uses them to protect her story. The costume that's SO CLOSE, yet just out of reach. The picture that she mailed to Ted that mysteriously vanished. If those items were available they would do wonders for her - if her story is true.

If her story isn't true, however, then it's best that those items stay right where they are....or AREN'T.

My point is if she uses these measures to protect her story, then doesn't that suggest that she knows that it isn't true? It's similar to a defendant pleading insanity, yet you discover that they made calculated moves to hide their crime. They did things that insane people who are unaware of what's right and what's wrong wouldn't do.

I hope that made sense.

I'll take alternative #2. I think her story is the polar opposite of what you stated in alt. #1

Oh Poor Sandy
4/20/2018 10:52:15 pm

#2
But she is crazy and obsessed enough that she probably believes that it is all true.
I guarantee that the costume will never show up. 100% guarantee it.
The sad part is that her attachment to the zodiac killer is the main thing that gives her life purpose and meaning. She loves the notoriety it brings her, she loves going to all the zodiac events and being the center of attention. She loves all of that. It's f*cked up.
Sandy really needs to get professional help. I wish she would take that step.

For what it's worth
4/21/2018 05:03:50 pm

Some people begin by making a slight adjustment to a story, or they make a slight and seemingly innocent fabrication. They may do this subconsciously or on purpose. It is as if they are "testing the boundaries" of plausibility. They find some people are willing to accept the slight additions and alterations. So they take things another step further, adding a few more details and embellishments, which some other people may accept. Over time the embellishments may become like new "factoids". After all, if other people have accepted the embellishments for some time, this means they must be at least "as good as true", if not better. The original story becomes somewhat overshadowed by "the new accepted truth" and therefore obsolete. In time the person may even begin to believe the fabrications are real. Furthermore, if the slight fabrications and embellishments of the past were accepted by others, this means there is a chance that additional slight fabrications and embellishments might also be accepted by other people. And thus the process continues into the future.

Generally however, over time, the story begins to sound "too good to be true" and even the less astute person will begin to see strange discrepancies, and a repetition of layered distortions and embellishments.

The style of Sandy's testimony reads more like a work of pulp fiction than a work of fact in my honest opinion, although I certainly believe the general basis of her story is true. However the "devil" is in the details. It is the details of her story that seem to be full of intricate embellishments.

Her story as a whole is very elaborately written. It is convoluted. It is a spider's web of details.

The focus seems to be to impress her readers about her life and times and exploits rather than to present simple facts about the proposed subject matter i.e. having been stalked by the Zodiac.

One gets the distinct impression that she is:

1) Not allowing the simple facts to speak for themselves, but tailoring her story in an elaborate and somewhat distorted way to fit the subject matter. There is never much uncertainty in her testimony about who she believes was responsible for any particular event. Always there is the implication that her prime suspect must be the Zodiac. He is like a ubiquitous and omniscient force, in control of everything and lurking forever in the background. Everything bad that happens is intricately and explicitly and inexplicably connected to the Zodiac. One gets the distinct impression that she believes the Zodiac and herself are intertwined and she is his constant living victim, to the point of being martyred. This bias is very evident.

2) As if at poles with this is the apparent need to impress others and wanting to appear like a hapless victim who, despite all the odds of being enslaved forever by the Zodiac, has always managed to keep one step ahead of his clutches. In effect, we are led to believe she is the heroine of the story. In other words she has "lived to tell the tale". Her story thus approaches self-martyrdom.

It is as if we are meant to feel sorry for her - for her years of being tormented by the Zodiac, and for her decades of diligent self-sacrifice serving the cause of "the case".

The Zodiac story began with her and must end with her, on her terms (because only she has the crucial pieces of evidence that will nail him!). In her mind, she holds all the cards and therefore the Zodiac is, in effect, her slave.

But still, she is the once again the hapless victim of circumstance, because, we are told, other people do not share her passion, and they are depicted as either mean bullies or incompetent, foolish "professionals".

3) It becomes apparent, to most educated people who read her testimony, that she wishes to be portrayed as a victim only in so far as it continues to bolster her ego; i.e. her desire to portray herself as a heroine and martyr in the eyes of the public. There is, as one poster pointed out, a definite sense of self-aggrandizement in her testimony.

If anybody questions her story, she most often sees this as an attack against her desired status and reacts emotively and without much mercy. Again, she plays the part of the victim.

The two extremes of victim and martyr are the only two common threads most people can find. The Zodiac is just like superfluous background noise. Although polar opposites, both extremes play an important role in presenting and upholding the ego of the storyteller.

For what it's worth
4/21/2018 05:14:46 pm

Oh Poor Sandy, the costume could turn up... But will it be the actual costume? Will the blood turn out to be red ink or paint, or "indeterminate"? What if the police do log it as evidence and she hears nothing more from them? What if they say it is too contaminated by other people's DNA to be of any use to the investigation? Will this be another case of Sandy being the victim who kept this item for so long, only to hand it over to the cops, who will then be portrayed as "uncaring" and "incompetent"? Either way she still comes out on top as the heroine. She can't lose!

The scenarios could be endless. That story is not yet written. Stay tuned! ;-)

Oh Poor Sandy
4/21/2018 11:08:43 pm

For What It's Worth - thank you. That might be the best post I've ever read on an internet forum.

Not My Real Name
4/22/2018 04:47:43 am

Yes, For what it's worth, thank you for that very informative post. Strong stuff.

I'll admit that I was intent on continuing to be a "bully" by further dissecting her story and pointing out its weaknesses over the weekend, but I changed my mind on Friday because ultimately I believe that anyone with a fair amount of logic and reason will see her tall tale for what it is. And if they can't, that's their problem.

It was Sandy's often unfair and unreasonable treatment of others that caused me to focus on her in the first place. Even putting her tale aside, she can be quite unpleasant.

What has come to bother me the most about this whole situation, however, is that in her quest for attention and notoriety, she has taken the spotlight not only off of the Zodiac, but more importantly off of his REAL victims.

As previous stated, I don't feel that this is a matter of confabulation. Call it a hunch, but my gut just tells me that she knows deep down that her tale is just that - a tale. A work of pulp fiction as For what it's worth put it.

I'll end with this: If - and I repeat IF - Sandy's story is UNTRUE (which I believe it is), then I find her to be an utterly despicable excuse for a human being. Her lack of morals is as off the charts as her self aggrandizement and desperate need for attention.

The term "stolen valor" keeps coming to mind. Stolen valor is (from Stripes.com) "the phenomenon of people falsely claiming military awards or badges they did not earn, service they did not perform, Prisoner of War experiences that never happened, and other tales of military derring-do that exist only in their minds."
As a veteran I find people who do this sort of thing deplorable. Not to suggest that you have to be a veteran to feel that way.

Sandy seems to be so lost in her own darkness that there is little hope that she'll ever find the light. I believe that she is a sociopathic liar and in desperate need of competent and aggressive psychological help.

Not my Real Name
4/22/2018 04:56:03 am

One other point: Sandy is probably eating this up. Negative attention is still attention and that's what it's really all about for her.

How pathetic.

Burt Reynolds
4/22/2018 11:18:46 am

You rascals better watch your mouths and stop harassing my former sweetheart. Don't make me call up Cletus and fire up the trans am and come hand out some old fashion country ass-whuppins.
The Zodiac Killer has been stalking Sandy for fifty years. Following her from town to town. I'm half tempted to get my old bow-and-arrow out and come make that killer squeal like a pig, if you catch my drift.

Howard_Miller
4/22/2018 07:21:55 pm

Oh Poor Sandy, there will of course be people who will believe such stories in their entirety and no amount of reasoning with them will convince them otherwise. You could show them the many examples where her story appears to verge into embellishments, superfluous hypotheticals and innuendo, gossip, heresay, and places where things seem to conflict, but your reasoning will be lost on such people. We need to face it. Some people just prefer a good story, which, I guess, is the reason why there are so many tin foil conspiracy theorists in the world.

Howard_Miller
4/23/2018 05:24:34 pm

Oops, my last comment should have been in reply to Not My Real Name, not Oh Poor Sandy!

Burt Reynolds
4/21/2018 11:10:09 pm

Sandy.....my dear, we should get a coffee and catch up.

Howard_Miller
4/23/2018 05:20:41 pm

Credit where credit is due. If Sandy has achieved anything for the benefit of the Zodiac case, albeit on an implied "quid pro quo" understanding, it is this: She has been very generous with her time and friendly and welcoming to a great many Zodiac researchers. She has a good understanding of the Bay area and has acted as a guide for many researchers. Her time and knowledge of the area and help have been greatly appreciated, and this is regardless of what any of us may feel about her personal stories relating to the Zodiac killer. For this, at least, she deserves our applause, respect and admiration.

For what it's worth
5/10/2018 04:10:50 pm

Yeah, some may see this as just part of the overall syndrome of craving positive attention from what is essentially a very negative premise, coupled of course with the desire to be center of attention. A guided tour is no doubt provided, but not without a running commentary concerning her life and times and exploits - a commentary that is perhaps less about the Zodiac and more inclined to be about poor yet fabulous "me" and what allegedly happened to poor yet fabulous "me".

Crazy_Larry
4/26/2018 10:56:38 am

I'm kind of fresh to Sandy Betts' story, although I've been fascinated by the Zodiac case ever since I was a young adult and I read my mom's copy of Greysmith's book.

I am drawn to one particular aspect: the costume in the car. Let's start by applying Occam's Razor: which conclusion requires the least amount of assumptions/leaps? We'll just assume that the story is true, for now.

1)The killer put the costume (and other stuff) in her car randomly.
2)The killer put the costume in her car to mess with her because he is a stalker.
3) The killer was actually her husband or a friend of the husband who had been driving or in that car.

In my mind, if the story is indeed true, the first two options require a great deal of assumptions while the third option requires almost none. 1)It could have been a random dump of evidence, but given how careful Zodiac was, it seems very risky to dump it into a strange car. I guess it could have been an attempt to frame someone else. But still, it goes against the methodical care Zodiac took to make sure he left no evidence. 2)Sandy reports stalking activity dating back to before the Zodiac crimes. I find it extremely unlikely that Sandy had multiple people stalking her at various times. So, assuming that there is indeed a person stalking her, it seems a stretch to believe that this person was also Zodiac. And again, we come to uncharacteristic sloppiness; why would he leave actual murder evidence in her car? 3)The husband was driving the car so we don't have to stretch anything to believe he put the stuff in the car. It could also have been an acquaintance of the husband who rode in the car.

So, if Sandy's story is true, it actually points directly to her husband at the time or at least a friend of his as the most plausible Zodiac suspect. In my mind, that's the only way her story makes any sense. It explains why their clothesline was missing; it wasn't stolen, he used it in the crime. It would also explain why she didn't hear back from him after she made the mistake of connecting something in there to Zodiac.

Of course, this renders the rest of the story moot. Ralph and his handwriting? Irrelevant. Unless, of course Ralph had been stalking her since the 50s and cleverly planted evidence to incriminate her and/or her husband. Maybe . . . but unlikely, I would say. Ditto the other potential perps she talks about. Again, if her story is true, the fact that the murder disguise was in her husband's car directly ties him to the stabbings.

She kind of hand-waves this away; "When my husband came home I asked him if he had given someone a ride, because there were some strange things in the back seat of the car. He assured me that no one had been in the car except him, and he didn’t see anything in the back seat when he got in to drive. I surmised that maybe some guy worse the wear for drink or cannabis had mistook our car for his and put it all there. " It's odd that there are items that could have blood on them in her car and she doesn't seem to think much of it. I also find it extremely odd that contemporaneously, after the details started getting reported in the media, that she didn't connect the disguise to the stabbings.

TL; DR: If Sandy's story is true, then it implicates her ex-husband, all the rest is unnecessary exposition that only serves to obfuscate.

For what it's worth
4/26/2018 01:44:31 pm

And yet Sandy has long maintained that she ruled out her ex as the Zodiac long ago, although she did evidently suspect him at one time in the past. Furthermore, for someone so verbose, she has never clearly stated why she suspected him, nor why she ruled him out for that matter.

IMHO you did not apply Occam's Razor rigorously enough. I wonder, for instance, why are other people who are not closely related or associated with Sandy constantly coming to her defense by confirming that they definitely saw the alleged costume too? Evidently she never showed it to very many people? This in itself is odd, considering she evidently has a large family, the members of whom must now be adults themselves and therefore able to think for themselves. And, judging by her testimony, she is clearly a very socially active person. Why are none of these other potential witnesses constantly coming to her aid to back up her stories?

So, applying Occam's Razor:

1) Has anyone else, outside of Sandy's immediate family and circle of friends ever actually seen the alleged costume? By "anyone else" I mean persons outside of Sandy's immediate social realm and potential sphere of influence that are not mentioned by her who could serve as impartial witnesses?

2) Does the alleged costume presently exist to anyone other than Sandy's ex? Can Sandy's ex verify that he has the costume that Sandy is talking about?

3) Can anyone else besides Sandy verify that the costume is definitely currently in a sewing box at her ex's place?

4) Can anyone besides Sandy tell us for sure the costume actually exists?

5) Can anyone tell us for sure that the costume, if it exists, was the actual one worn by the Zodiac?

1) No to both answers.
2) No, and with regards to the second question, apparently not. He has shown no desire to back up her story and we only have Sandy's word on why he will not. Is the only reason why he will not co-operate with Sandy because he is "just being mean", or are there other reasons for his apparent lack of interest? We will never know because we only have Sandy's word on the matter, once again.
3) No.
4) No.
5) No.

That is an awful lot of negatives and unknowns. Not much there to make anyone want to believe her story is there?

Karen C
4/26/2018 02:08:32 pm

Yes, without making numerous assumptions and leaps ourselves, and without accepting the presumptions presented to us by others, the answers to all of these questions are currently unknown to us. We simply cannot know for sure without accepting her word. So this is the only realistic conclusion that any reasonable and impartial person can draw. We cannot know for sure. And as Crazy_Larry pointed out, which possibility has the most assumptions? Clearly Sandy's testimony presents many more assumptions than the alternative, which is that the entire story in not true. Applying Occam's Razor in its strict sense, the alternative with the least assumptions is generally the correct one.

PaintingParty
5/22/2024 10:11:01 am

So, Here is the thing. For anybody over the age of 50 (or so) who lived in the Bay area up through the 2000's who has an interest in the Zodiac, has encountered a creepy man the right age who kinda looks like the composite (the original one or the later police sketch) who dresses like a nerd and likes puzzles.
If in the 1990s you sat in a public place in San Francisco, reading any zodiac paperback some creepy but friendly stranger the right age and look, and vibe, will say "Hey, reading about the zodiac? I tried to solve those ciphers, I was in the Navy (cryptology), I used to eat at Terry's lodge and the Hungry hunter, I lived in Valejo those days, I worked on Mare Island, I was in the printing business after I got out of the Navy."
You look, and they are wearing shiny shiny wing walkers. They say here is a book on puzzles I cary around, you keep it. In the front leaf it will have zodiacesque handwriting claiming the book belongs to R. Marshal, or maybe "Lee" or maybe, "R.G" or have an old handbill from the Mikado or a zodiac newspaper clipping, or maybe an address on Scott Street near Haight, or Washington Street near Cherry, something having to do with Robert Emmett etc etc.
Full disclosure, I am reading Zodiac stuff today as a creativity trick. I am trying to get inspired to create some art, and I have a total block. One of my tricks that often works is reading zodiac stuff in the forums to "jumpstart" the human brains patern recognition system into overdrive to get the creative juices flowing. The Zodiac Mystery almost at times seems like so called evidence of living in a simulation, or maybe it's the fact that reality doesn't function like we assume, and what is in "the past" isn't really set in stone, it changes over time...Hey! It's working!!!

For what it's worth
4/30/2018 02:54:45 pm

Let us re-examine this testimony in light of recent breaking news about the arrest of the GSK. When we consider the earth shattering revelation that the GSK was actually 5 different criminal personas wrapped into one, and he lived for much of his time smack bang in between Lake Berryessa and Lake Tahoe, only 2 hours drive from Lake Berryessa, it is reasonable to presume that LE would have been keen to gather as much evidence as possible on this individual to either include or exclude him entirely from the Lake Berryessa attack. Meanwhile we have a frequent forum and blog poster who claims that she has the Zodiac's outfit, or part of it, in a sewing box at her ex's place, and it has blood on it from the Lake Berryessa crime. Hmmm. One would assume with the present frenzy of renewed interest in cold cases from that era, all evidence that may or may not be related to the very prolific GSK, detectives and LE would have immediately taken out a search warrant on her ex's house in order to locate said artifact as important material evidence. Yet it would seem this has not taken place and there is apparently a distinct lack of interest from LE to do so. One can only use the incompetence argument for so long before it wears very thin.

Not My Real Name
5/2/2018 03:43:42 am

From Sandy's tale...

"I did not mention the killer's costume in my car, because it sounds too good to be true. I thought that by not mentioning it, he would at least listen to the rest of my story."

This is VERY convenient to her tale.

First, if she had, then LE may very well issue the search warrant that you mentioned and her tale goes belly up. OR she has to come up with yet another excuse as to why the costume isn't where she said it was. Either way her tale takes a hit and she can't allow that.
Second, by not zeroing in on Z with the material that she DID give them, LE lends credence to her claim that they are incompetent. They're either incompetent or a part of conspiracy that LE has going on against her.

For what its worth
5/2/2018 04:43:07 am

"I did not mention the killer's costume in my car, because it sounds too good to be true. I thought that by not mentioning it, he would at least listen to the rest of my story."

The hilarious thing about this is he obviously was not willing to consider the rest of her story either, so she might as well have told him about the costume! Two wrongs do not make a right! LOL!

Howard_Miller
5/2/2018 04:06:01 pm

I am certain there is no "conspiracy" on the part of LE against this person, and complete incompetency also seems unlikely. LE would never have enough free time on their hands to orchestrate an elaborate conspiracy to undermine a witness's testimony.

A widespread but frequently fallacious myth is that the police, in general, are corrupt and stupid. As a wise friend once told me, "LE may occasionally be corrupt, but they are seldom stupid."

What is the very first thing any officer in a police building will do when presented with a seemingly extraordinary tale relating to a very highly publicized case? He will check into the background of the claimant to verify the legitimacy of the claims and the reliability of the claimant.

LE can easily trace a person's movements over time. If they note that the person has lived in other districts or counties, they will contact the police department there and ask questions about the claimant. If it turns out that the claimant has also made similar claims there to the point of wearing out the patience of the staff on duty, well the likelihood of the claimant being taken seriously elsewhere will be very slim. Sometimes a person's testimony speaks for itself and this passage speaks volumes: "I did not mention the killer's costume in my car, because it sounds too good to be true. I thought that by not mentioning it, he would at least listen to the rest of my story."

Not My Real Name
5/3/2018 02:10:52 am

Just to be clear, I don't think for one moment that LE has been incompetent or that they've engaged in a conspiracy against Sandy. I mentioned those options because they are two favorite assertions when LE doesn't jump when she says jump.

Howard_Miller
5/3/2018 03:40:51 am

Yes I know. I guess I was merely polishing off your argument. ;-)

Shelly just
5/8/2018 08:46:49 am

I wonder if Sandy has a traumatic childhood past, possibly an alcoholic or abusive and distant father. She exhibits the classic traits of a woman who desires intense male attention, the need to be rescued, the personality of a woman who perhaps uses her sexuality to get that attention and relies on a seductive nature to attract admirers. She is a classic borderline. And her story leaves most of us with the feeling that she is not mentally stable. Unbelievable that one woman can have so many terrifying close calls with so many men who resemble traits of the Zodiac killer. She is doing this for attention.

For what it's worth
5/10/2018 04:18:16 pm

Sandy wrote: "I am not sure how I ended up with Burt lifting me up above his head and sliding me slowly down close to his body. But he said in a low voice while looking at me nose to nose, "you are one healthy girl." I still remember that moment as if it were yesterday. I was only an extra, but was a “key” extra."

That passage says it all.

Burt Reynolds
5/11/2018 05:00:09 pm

I still remember that moment. It is etched in my brain, I will never forget. I lifted the beauty queen up and held her close. Close enough that I could feel her heart beat next to mine. I can still remember the smell or her sweet sultry perfume. Her breath smelled of spearmint gum.

I desperately wanted to kiss the sweet woman. But I was still in love with Loni and didn't want to break our vows. Alas...my attraction with Sandy would have to take a back seat.

THIS is where I have a confusion to make. I pray it doesn't ruin any potential chances I have with my healthy beauty. It is true that Sandy has been stalked over the years. That she has seen somebody watching her, hiding in the shadows. Strange cars driving by slowly. A stealthy presence seen walking outside her bedroom window. That person was me.

I knew I blew my chances on that movie set. But I couldn't get her out of my mind. So every couple of months I would drive the trans-am down to Cali and try and catch glimpses of Sandy whenever I could. Sometimes I would send a member of my security team to come check on her. To see if she was married, had a boyfriend and what-not. Honcho, the head of my security team, would then report back to me.

Sandy, I send you my deepest apologies for scaring you so much over the years. I had no idea you thought it was the Zodiac Killer stalking you. It was just me. Love-sick, forlorned Burt.

Sandy - you will always be my Carrie.

Too Good to be True
5/14/2018 05:18:03 pm

Reading through Sandy's story in its totality leaves a deep frown on my forehead and only one question in my mind. The question is not so much "Should I believe her?". It is more one of "Why should I believe her?"

I wonder for instance, why is this story any better or worse than the ones put forward by proponents of Chemtrails, who claim their skin rash is a symptom of Morgellons Disease and this provides overwhelming proof of Chemtrails? And why is her story any better or worse than those who claim the red spots on their neck and wrists were caused during an alien abduction and this in turn provides overwhelming proof that extraterrestrials are visiting our planet? Her testimony, after all, relies on much the same kind of highly selective and subjective reasoning.

Then, as others have stated, belief then becomes a matter of personal choice for other subjective people. But, for those of more scientific minds, her story is best scrutinized using Occams Razor.

Occam's razor dictates that the more assumptions we have to make in order to explain the veracity of something, the less likely it is that the explanation is true.

It goes without saying that in order to believe her story in its entirety, we must first accept a huge number of assumptions. In the case of this story, there seems to be a number of assumptions built on a foundation of other assumptions. The basic story about her life is essentially true and sound e.g. meeting Burt Reynolds and scoring a minor movie part. But the extrapolations built around her life story re the Zodiac all seem to add a rather mirage-like obfuscation to what would otherwise be a believable telling of the facts. Every time the story verges into Zodiac territory, the assumptions and extrapolations suddenly come pouring in, thick and fast.

The "smoking gun" evidence is always conveniently missing or delayed in some way.

Occasionally some evidence is offered which seems tantalizingly real, but also seems obscure and "too good to be true". It is offered in the way a magician suddenly pulls a rabbit out of the hat, with the additions of a tantalizing yet always confusing and obscure background story. Or it appears like a Ripley's "Believe it or not"! The details surrounding the securing of said evidence always seems controversial and, if real, would have to be heavily contaminated.

On a parallel with this is a constant lack of interest from law enforcement. Admittedly, corruption in LE is all too real, but also it becomes all too convenient as a "means of support" for what is essentially a shaky story premised largely on assumptions.

To summarize, I believe the basis of her life story, but as a person of scientific mind I cannot believe any of her numerous sojourns into Zodiac-related ponderings. There are just too many assumptions built on assumptions and this leaves far too much room for doubt.

Oh Poor Sandy
5/16/2018 05:04:58 am

TL/DR: Sandy thinks the zodiac is behind everything that happens in her life. Flat tire - zodiac. TV goes out - zodiac. Get a cold - zodiac. Somebody glances at her in the grocery store - zodiac. Somebody glances at her son's girlfriend's aunt's cousin - zodiac.
And she attributes EVERY death close to her on the work of the zodiac.
WHAT IS THIS POOR WOMAN GOING TO DO WHEN THE CASE IS SOLVED? I suppose she will invent a new stalker or attach her stalker to another unsolved murder case.

For what it's worth
5/16/2018 04:04:16 pm

+1. Or she'll glum it all on to some anonymous persona called "Ray" from now on.

Turkey dinner got burnt = Zodiac, goldfish died = Zodiac, tree branch broke off in storm = Zodiac, lawnmower won't start = Zodiac, blown light bulb = Zodiac, all negative posts on blog pages = Zodiac.

And then she is likely to tell others that they are the ones who are obsessed if they rationally scrutinize the details of her story. ROFL!

Anonymous
5/16/2018 12:06:15 pm

DEAR RAY -and your not obsessed? You should have a long look in the mirror.

Not My Real Name
5/18/2018 01:02:23 am

Hmmm. Sounds awfully familiar.

Oh Poor Sandy
5/18/2018 05:06:43 am

Anonymous - do you think Sandy is telling the truth? You believe her tales of being stalked for 50 years, buy multiple different men, in multiple different cities and they all somehow were attached to the zodiac. Even when they weren't. You believe her?

For what it's worth
5/18/2018 05:12:57 am

Some people believe in chemtrails. Others believe the moon landing was faked. It's impossible to convince them otherwise.

Not My Real Name
5/18/2018 05:57:41 am

Every turd has its flies, but I find Anonymous to be suspect.

Dave
5/16/2018 03:51:45 pm

Ray? Ray's not here man!

bart
5/18/2018 03:52:15 pm

There seems to be so many ways,at looking at that [?].

For what it's worth
5/18/2018 04:26:30 pm

Looking at what? lol!

bart
5/18/2018 04:31:54 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIPa8PndK7E

bart
5/18/2018 04:57:47 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFp9s3cwkms&feature=youtu.be&t=37m11s

Could Jack Tarrance be the Zodiac? After his name was put forward by his stepson Dennis Kaufman in 2007. He attempted to back up his claims by producing a blooded knife, disturbing images on rolls of film, handwriting samples of his stepfather he claimed were very similar to the Zodiac letters and more interestingly a black hood found rolled up and concealed within the confines of an amplifier. The very executioners costume worn by the Zodiac Killer during the murder of Cecelia Ann Shepard and the attempted murder of Bryan Calvin Hartnell at Lake Berryessa on September 27th 1969.

For what it's worth
5/18/2018 05:16:44 pm

I've certainly wondered about Jack Tarrance. I've wondered about just about all of the suspects to date. I guess we can only hope that DNA will eventually unravel the mystery of who the REAL Zodiac was. At present it seems to be more a case of "Will the real Zodiac killer please stand up?" And we are fed lots of tantalizing stories by different people who are all pushing their favored suspects. Hopefully DNA will be able to pluck him from the crowd, conclusively, and this will be sufficient to silence the noisy rabble of fake wannabes. He may turn out to be someone totally unknown to us - someone who never ever was a Zodiac suspect.

Not My Real Name
5/19/2018 04:20:29 am

For what it's worth, this is the type of thing I was referring to when I said that every turd has its flies.

For what it's worth
5/19/2018 04:57:08 am

Well it was a slow day at the office, so even Jack Tarrance on the end of a zombie thread was better than nothing. lol!

Not My Real Name
5/19/2018 07:15:03 am

LOL...I wasn't referring to you. There's certainly no harm in checking out the various theories. Like Sandy's tale, however, the Jack Tarrance theory just doesn't hold up for me. But also like Sandy's tale, it has it's devoted followers. Those who believe every word of it.

bart
5/19/2018 10:32:28 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQaKy0-154I

For what it's worth
5/19/2018 03:36:24 pm

Yes, and as if on cue, here comes all the links. It is as if "By these links I prove it to be so". LOL!

Miserable Moe
5/19/2018 03:57:38 pm

Jack Tarrance??? Why resurrect his bony corpse here? Seems so far off tangent as to be completely off topic. I can't quite understand what "miserable Moe" and Jack Tarrance have got in common with Sandy Betts and her Zodiac tale, apart from the fact that Moe manages to attract the same old bar flies all the time. Flies around the proverbial are about the only explanation that makes any sense... But some of the flies seem to be circling about aimlessly on entirely the WRONG pile of do-do. LOL!

Tommy V
5/20/2018 06:20:01 am

It's Richard Gaikowski.
How dare you morons not take my word as fact.
I am on all the TV shows, I am the expert. Those who doubt me should be smote down until they fall into line.
Bow down to me. And send me your donations.

Bowing to Tommy V's wisdom
5/20/2018 11:07:17 pm

There's the thing. If Tommy V allows Sandy B lots of freedom to roam about on his forum and post whatever she will, why is he not anxiously hammering on her ex-husband's door for the costume? He has after all made several trips to California in his hunt for Zodiac evidence. The costume in the sewing box never seems to be a very high priority on his agenda. Richard Gaikowski's DNA could be in the sewing box at Sandy's ex's place, but he has shown no real desire to go after that crucial piece of evidence after so many years? Funny that!! In fact a cynical person may say that this fact alone speaks volumes!

bart
5/18/2018 05:31:26 pm

https://nanetteb.forumchitchat.com/post/handwriting-examination-of-jack-w-tarrance-v-zodiac-7241043

Karen C
5/19/2018 04:04:08 pm

I admit there are similarities there, but I have seen plenty of the same comparisons made for entirely different individuals. All of them seem convincing on the surface. In fact I recently found an old high school book belonging to a friend who would have been far too young and living in the wrong part of the world to ever be the Zodiac. I matched up just about every letter precisely with those from the Zodiac letters. So does that make him the Zodiac? Obviously not. Handwriting analysis is always suspect whenever it appears "cherry picked", and these examples appear to be cherry picked IMHO.

bart
5/19/2018 06:42:58 pm

you guys are really mean. i'm out-a-here

Karen C
5/19/2018 08:52:32 pm

Well I can't speak for anybody else, but I personally could not understand the relevance of Jack Tarrance to the Sandy Betts story.

I suspect this is why you did not get a very good reception. You were, after all, tacking a comment about a controversial subject matter to the end of an even more controversial topic.

Sorry to appear blunt, but what did you expect?

Anonymous
5/20/2018 06:13:54 pm

Karen... conjecture ... they both had mask?

I think it was something about both jack and sandy having the z mask

maybe when you have a hot potato like the z mask.
more conjecture. it is like being in possession of the ultimate z evidence. have you ever put a potato in the oven without poking it? It literally explodes with enough force to blow the oven door open. fun little cooking fact. you don't want anything to do with it. if it is the mask then you could have a lot of explaining to do. cheerio

Karen C
5/20/2018 10:55:39 pm

Oh wow... just WOW. Haha!

You just can't argue with that kind of weird logic, can you? Hot potatoes that explode in your face without touching them, microwave ovens, Jack Tarrance and long lost masks. "More conjecture that is like being in possession of the ultimate Z evidence." That has to take first prize for the most contradictory statement on an online forum ever.

Sounds to me like another fly circling over some leftovers. Where is the fly spray when you need it!

Burt Reynolds
5/21/2018 11:14:43 am

You guys are so mean.
Whose to say that Zodiac didn't have two masks/costumes?
He could have used the second costume in one of the crimes where the victims didn't live.
The sweet healthy Sandy got one of the costumes.
This Jack fellow got the other costume.
Come on people. Let's think logically about this.
Your use of assumptions and opinions and trying to pass them off as facts is hurtful and not fair.
What's the most logical answer? Zodiac used multiple costumes. Sandy and Jack both have different versions of it - but both come straight from the Zodiac
Has anybody asked Sandy to look at pictures of Jack Tarrance to see if he looks like Honcho or her other stalkers?

For what it's worth
5/21/2018 04:23:33 pm

Look overhead. It is a flying pig!!

Not My Real Name
5/20/2018 05:04:04 am

What Karen C said.

You clearly misread the audience and you clearly misread the topic.

Sigmund
5/21/2018 07:17:58 pm

I realize by reading through the latest posts that this story has become a dead issue for many people. And I can certainly understand why. I personally find the story to be too strange and extravagant to be true, but I am sure it may be a "good fit" with some people, especially those who like conspiracy theories. Such people live more in the world of conjecture than facts. They seldom require any proof. All it takes is a good story to set them off on a particular tangent.

Still, I find it amazing that she has managed to keep a relatively straight and consistent, if not confusing story, throughout her long period of internet postings. It is possible to find plenty of examples of factual distortions and embellishment, for example, but not outright contradictions. I guess she does have the benefit of "cut and paste", and by so doing can claim to be replicating essentially the same story over and over. The problem is of course that different dates and times seem to blur together, so it is often difficult to clearly separate one time frame from another. This convoluted style of writing, together with the embellishments, both tend to negate the story's veracity.

Take for example this passage:

"Each night as I drove home some 47 miles around 3 am, I would be followed. That helped to save my life , because before that I would fall asleep while driving. I drank coffee at work before driving home, to try to stay awake, but that didn't work 90 percent of the time. Once I knew I had a crazy stalker following me each night , that kept me awake LOL.
"He would try to force me off the road by laying back , then speed up to my bumper. He did this a few times and so when he sped up and was close to my bumper I tapped my break , just enough for him to see the brake lights. He went out of control and ended up sideways on a hill next to the highway.
"I learned to drive when I was 11, so I am pretty good at it. One other time it was a drizzly foggy night about 2Am , I was on the 880 freeway in Oakland, when a car like a silver Honda passed me and stopped at the entrance of the exit I had to take to get home. I had to slam on my breaks, to keep from hitting him and spun around on the slippery pavement a few times, not hitting anything or getting hit by any other cars !It looked as if I was a stunt driver LOL. It was done so smoothly and I was still able to take my exit.
"I am sure that made him angry that his plan fell apart ,but empressed him and showed him I could out drive most of his victims.
"One of the females that I feel he ran off the road and then stabbed her to death near her car, was Teresa Brown who was also a waitress working in Walnut Creek who lived in Antioch . She was forced off the same highway 4 in Pittsburg Ca. early 90's when many other women were being murdered by a serial killer who has not been caught. It was one of those females who got away from the killer's long knife. She lived to tell me that the man I have the picture of, was the man who tried to kill her.
"I have written about my story so many times, that I am not sure if I am repeating myself here ?"

Most people reading this would be struck by two things: 1) Her apparent lack of any acceptance of coincidence, and 2) Her embellishment of common facts in order to make them fit with a Zodiac/stalker scenario.

Most people reading this would think: "Umm, well maybe Sandy you were driving too fast in the fog and nearly rear-ended some poor person. Then you lost control and spun around a few times on the slippery pavement." The hapless driver in front was no doubt counting his blessings at the near miss.

It is at times astounding that she portrays herself as the victim and heroine, when she actually seemed to be at fault, and then launches straight into another embellishment by drawing comparisons with other potential victims of road attacks. In fact a complete coincidence would seem the far more likely explanation to most reasonable people. And it goes without saying that her own bad driving skills are also dismissed and replaced summarily as the work of a persistent Zodiac stalker.

Not My Real Name
5/22/2018 03:25:44 am

"I am sure that made him angry that his plan fell apart ,but empressed him and showed him I could out drive most of his victims."

SURELY this was the Zodiac, but Sandy was just so AWESOME in the way that she handled it! Looked like a real stunt driver! A legend in her own mind! She just can't (but should) get over herself!

I find her mention of the murder of Theresa Brown interesting. Sandy claims that it happened in the early 90s, but it actually happened on April 22, 1988. It's fortunate for Sandy that it A) happened near her and B) remains unsolved. Those 2 factors allow her to cherry pick the case and add it to her tall tale much in the way that she did the Victoria Sue Bell murder. Theresa and Victoria are both very convenient to Sandy's tale. What an awful shame that Sandy may very well be using their murders just to bolster her fairy tale. That would be pathetic if true.
Sandy likely relishes the fact that her tale can't be proven wrong. What she may fail to realize, however, is that the burden of proof falls SOLELY on the person/s making the claim. And she's failed to do that from word go.

The saga continues....and continues....and continues.

Not My Real Name
5/22/2018 03:36:11 am

Now that I think about it, it IS true that Sandy is using the murder of Victoria Sue Bell to bolster her case. William Jennings Choyce was convicted of her murder in 2008 and sentenced to death. They established that Choyce was the killer through the use of DNA technology. - You know, the same DNA technology that Sandy is putting so much faith in in the case of the Zodiac. So DNA convicts Choyce, but no, no, no....they got it wrong! Sandy's "feelings/paranoid suspicions" are a much more viable means of establishing guilt!

Sigmund
5/22/2018 04:29:21 am

NMRM, thank you for pointing out just some of the factual distortions/embellishments. I note that you and other posters have pointed out other factual oddities in her testimony, such as the flood event which she attributes to the Zodiac. The flood event was an historical fact, but has clearly been manipulated and distorted to suit her story.

I agree, she often cherry picks from other nearby cases to support her case. This conforms well with her general tendency to distort and embellish. Her story as a whole seems to be based on such distortions, to such an extent that it mostly depends on them.

I also agree that the burden of proof should be on her rather than the reader. I notice that she is more likely to counter any criticism by asking her critics to do their research and prove her wrong, rather than actually present the evidence herself. Other times she blames the reader for the discrepancies. She tells them they are confused or accuses them of verbal abuse (bullying), when really they are just asking the hard questions. It is never a good idea to make extravagant claims without being able to back them up with something tangible. Moreover it is never a good idea to alienate those who are asking the hard questions by retaliating in a highly personal and emotive way. It almost seems as though she does not like it when people think too hard and long about the individual aspects of her story. She prefers it when people just accept it all as fact.

Also, the way that LE have apparently shown a reluctance to co-operate with her claims in the past does not help her case one bit. Then she adds the convenient stereotype that this is because the police were lazy or incompetent. We have all come across lazy and incompetent public servants, so I guess this gives some validity to her claims. But once again, it does seem a convenient alibi in the absence of proof.

Publicity Police
6/2/2018 06:55:21 am

Who loves the publicity more - Sandy Betts or Tom Voigt?
Can you imagine the two of them having lunch?
"The actual Zodiac Killer has been stalking me for 50 years."
"That's interesting and all. But did you see me on the news yesterday where they referred to me as an expert on the case?"
"Yes, Tom, I did. But I actually have the LB costume hidden away in my garage. That's a little more important than you being on the local news."
"Sure, physical evidence from a crime is something. But last week I was interviewed for a news paper article. And the week before I was on a zodiac podcast. I am a pretty big deal."
"Interesting. But I've actually spoken to the real zodiac. Had him touch my shoulder. Leave physical evidence at my house. You've spent 20 years of your life obsessing about Zodiac and you still have no idea who he is. You were certain it was ALA. Then you were certain it was Gaikowski. Next month you will be certain it's a new candidate"
"But I am the expert. I know all. I've been on 18 newscasts, 5 TV shows, and 22 podcasts. I am pretty important."
"The f*cking Zodiac actually shot a gun at me!"
And for the entire lunch they just argue about who is more important and relevant to the Zodiac case.

For what it's worth
6/2/2018 04:10:46 pm

Hahaha!

"Sewing box!"

"No, Expert!"

"No, Sewing box!"

"No, Expert!"

"No, Sewing box!"

"No, Expert!"

"To-may-toe!"

"No, To-mar-toe!"

Just The Facts
6/9/2018 10:05:48 am

It is shocking that the police have ignored all the evidence that Sandy has.

I’ll just quote myself from a message below

“It looks like you’ve got at least 10 different items with zodiac fingerprints and/or DNA on it. Plus a couple with blood stains. Plus you have his actual name. Vehicle description, several license plate numbers. He has called you multiple times, so there are phone records. You have actual pictures of him. You have the bullets that he fired into your house.

With an overwhelming amount of physical evidence. Plus you as a witness and several of your friends as witnesses, including one he almost killed. And you have connected him to multiple murders in other states. Why are the police ignoring all of this?

The detective that solves the Zodiac case will be a legend. It will make his career. Especially if he ties the zodiac to dozens of other murders in other states.

Sandy has given him the Zodiac on a silver platter. But the police just choose to ignore all of this amazing evidence?

She contradicts herself a lot. Her timelines don’t match. And she takes things that are complete coincidences and turns them into her alleged duo of stalkers. She also takes anything that any random person says about the zodiac and attaches those attributes to her suspects.


"The hood was a simple paper bag with the eyes cut out. It had a very strong bad smell that could have come from it sitting in my car on a hot day."

I put the paper bag on and it made "me" 5in taller.

A stranger puts a “smelly” mask in your car and you put in on over your face?

It’s odd that you have a connection to every single odd thing mentioned. People get Oakland A tickets – you say your suspect likes the As. One of the victims claimed there was about six extra inches on the head of his attacker’s mask. Of course, the smelly mask that you put on your head made you 5 inches taller. And for reference, see next reply below:

read that someone believed the Z was Catholic,because he felt a need to confess. Kane would not fit that profile, but my R.H. would

I’ll just refer to these amazing connections as “of course.” Some random person thinks Z was catholic. So of course your suspect is catholic. If somebody said they thought the Zodiac loved fried eggs you would quickly post “my suspect also loved fried eggs.”

The cotton cloth I could still have it in a box somewhere with other material I save to sew with.

So you don’t even know for sure if the mystery box your ex-husband might have even has the actual cloth in it.

And that clothes line she "had" down the side of her house, well it is just like the one I used to tie up those kids at lake B with.

Of course. Were there a lot of different types of clothes lines in the late 60s? I suspect there were not more than a couple different options.

was once followed by a guy who I saw for a few minutes when he stood next to me in a 7-11. I felt a small amount of fear, enough to call the police as he drove across the street and waited for me. He drove away when he saw me make the call.

So from outside the store he saw you making a phone call inside the store? When did he follow you? He followed you before you got there, then came inside and followed you some more? Were there any other people inside the store – were they following you too? We need a word for your weird habit of turning coincidences into “zodiac killer is terrorizing me. Just today I followed a car for a couple miles, through a turn, and into a 7/11. And as luck would have it, we crossed paths in the SMALL store. I left before him. Went to my car and – wait for it – didn’t leave immediately. I checked my text messages, then opened up the ice cream bar I had just purchased. After sitting in the lot for a couple minutes I then drove away.
The guy I mentioned earlier could have done exactly what you just did. “This crazy lady followed me for a couple miles, followed me into the store, stood beside me in the store, waited for me outside the store, and then quickly sped off when I used the store phone.” Do you see how silly that sounds? You’ve turned a completely random occurrence into your stalker fantasy.

Zodiac put these things in the car,"unless" he was a mind reader, or traveled ahead in time.The chance of someone else knowing that the Z would use a costume "even" close to the one in my car, a day or two before, and use it in a crime in Napa county, is astronomically impossible.

That paragraph literally makes no sense. Mind reader? Time traveler? You have no proof that it happened. Show us the costume? Otherwise, you have no proof.


Someone wanted my thoughts on the blood spots on the book that was left in my car Sept 69.I can only guess that it "could" be a combination of B.Hartnells and Cecillia Shepards.Or in some cases the perps.If I had the money to get the DNA check

Just The Facts
6/9/2018 10:11:37 am

Sorry, that first post is hard to read. I thought I bolded parts of it to make it clear where Sandy's posts were. But it didn't come though.

"Someone wanted my thoughts on the blood spots on the book that was left in my car Sept 69.I can only guess that it "could" be a combination of B.Hartnells and Cecillia Shepards.Or in some cases the perps.If I had the money to get the DNA checked out I sure would, (Berry Scheck where are you?)because if it is theirs,it would be just a matter of time and the case would be solved I would think.I keep it in a safety deposit box, just because I believe it is thee smoking gun."

Not only do you have The Smoking Gun in the costume. But you have an old book/bible that has blood spots on it. A book that the Zodiac gave you. But the police or the FBI won’t look into it? Why are you going on and on about the costume - that you aren’t even sure is in a box – when you have actual blood evidence in your possession? And that book would also have fingerprints on it. And DNA. That’s the smoking gun. Go to the police ASAP.

"In the late 80's I recieved a envelope with a stamp that had a red fire engine on it.I had been dating a oakland fireman at that time.I had never seen a stamp like that,nor have I sense then. What got to me was that someone drew a Z through"

Sweet. More DNA and fingerprints. Did you give that to the detectives?

"After recieving the Z book I started being bothered almost every day by the man in my picture."

How did Honcho and Kane know you had the book? Maybe they really are mind readers?
But you claim that a lot of the stalking and harassment started well before the book was released. The yellow book came out in 1986. Your story isn’t matching up.

You have stories about being stalked in the late 60s and early 70s. Was this a different stalker than the one who started doing it in the late 80s?

This is why nobody believes you. Your stories don’t match up.

Just The Facts
6/9/2018 10:13:22 am

"I am sending Vallejo Dave a card that was left for me in 68 or 69,it is like a love letter,and at the end it says: Fighting the urge to add- non plus. He signd it More than just friends.Curious cat-"

Awesome possum! More DNA and finger prints for the police.

"Yes I have talked with him,and I have his voice on tape."

Let me quess. His voice sounds exactly like what nancy and Brian described.

"You know the strangest thing about this picture, is it has been posted for a few yrs now and only one person said he saw this man in Vallejo in the late 80s "

Wait, what? You posted a picture on an obscure website and nobody from your city went online and commented on it? Shocking. That is so strange.

"The person who saw this man was a young boy cutting school. He went into Bobs Big Boy ( no longer called that). The Boy had the Robt Graysmith Zodiac book paper back. A older man spoke to the boy and asked him how he liked the book ? Then the man said he was a fan of the Zodiacs ! The boy thought the man was just trying to be funny. The old man and the boy met a few times over that week.The next time the boy went in to BBBoy,a waitress said the man had left something for him in a paper bag. The boy looked inthe bag and saw that it was another yellow Z book just like the one he was reading.He picked it up and on the inside cover was- I thought you might like a autograph copy- it was signed "The Zodiac" and it had his logo as well. The boy still thought the man was playing games with him,untill he found his picture on either Howards or Ryans site"

Not even worth commenting on. The zodiac is able to avoid being captured by the police. But is constantly outing himself to potential witnesses. He is hanging out at your restaurant, hanging out at your house, talking to your friends, sending you multiple cards, leaving tons of clues in your car, making holes and leaving messages in the dirt in front of your house. One 1/3th inch long hair or a small piece of saliva left on the back of a stamp from 50 years ago can get a criminal locked up for life. But the zodiac has left a 100 clues around you. Literally a 100 different clues. But the police won’t look into it. Yea, right.

"was telling them what happend that I was followed from Vallejo. As I talked I spotted the man in a mid sized light brown car, crossing the high way,going towards a all night restaurant. I pointed at him as he was looking at me. "

I’m sure that you could make out that he was looking at you as he drove by, at night, on the other side of the highway going sideways to you. But let’s just say you could. You know what else it might have been? Some dude driving and seeing a cop car pulled over, the police talking to a lady. Sandy, you might not know this, but most people take a look when they drive by a scene like that. People always take a glance when driving by a cop car on the side of the road. Doesn’t mean they are all the zodiac.


"but I can tell you this ,the man in my picture was ID'd by Vallejo PD Conway or Conroy as Larry Kane from Lake Tahoe"

Years ago you were pretty sure Kane and Honcho were the zodiac team. Now you claim Kane isn’t.

"I was shot at through my bedroom window and he did just miss my head. Or he was talking about 3 shots fired inside the caldacot tunnel at 1pm in Nov, 3 days after Veterans day. I had chassed him 3 days before, and then thought how stupid I was for doing that! None of the shots hit my car or me,I think he was just warning me never follow him again. I got the point."


Total bullsh*t. You claim that you had a stalker. And had made multiple police reports about it. Then that stalker shoots a gun into your bedroom. And the police don’t care? I hate to shatter your story, but police in fact do care when people start shooting guns into people’s houses. Your stalker would have been instantly brought in for questioning. Instantly.

And then the same stalker shoots at your car three times while you are driving? And the police don’t care? Your stalker has now shot at you on two different occasions. There is no way in hell that the police ignore that.

And how could you possibly know he was just warning you to not follow him? Are you a mind reader? In a lot of your posts you claim to know what the zodiac was thinking. Seriously, are you a mind reader now?


Just The Facts
6/9/2018 10:16:29 am

"His voice changes from almost normal to a deep taunting sound. He talks slowly and enunciates every word.Almost as if it hurts to talk. I can understand why Harnell said it was like a drawl but not a southern drawl.He spoke to me when he came in dressed in a womans dress. I thought he was a woman but a large one.He also spoke to me when I took his drink order.A few minutes later he stood next to me to change the order.By then I knew who he was, he came up behind me and touched my shoulder, I screamed so loud !He didn't even flench. He looked as if he enjoyed the scream. He then said to me very "slowly" and in a much deeper voice than the one he used when he orderd the drink. He said: I - am - very - sorry - if -I fright - ened - you.( My hart dropped down to my feet)."


Of course your suspect’s voice matches what Nancy/Brian said. Of course.

And did you really just say he came to your restaurant dressed as a woman. And then changed the sound of his voice each time he talked to you during his lunch service?

"This was the night that my friend followed him outside to get me the plate number- 1EEJ927. Eight months later my friend was stabbed disemboweled and left for dead in Oakland on my birthday."

"I have called the police here and told them about this guy. I have been told to document everything. They said that they can't do anything about him following me(that was back around 93). The officer that I spoke to said he had never heard of a stalking law"

You knew who tried to kill your friend. Surely they gave a description too. You have great circumstantial evidence. Another open and shut case for the police. You just gave them their suspect wrapped up in Christmas wrapping paper. Alas – they didn’t solve the crime? Even though they knew who it was?

So this stalker of yours is stabbing and almost killing people attached to you. He is shooting at you (multiple occasions) and is killing people in other cities and states (your detective work has figured this out). But the police just IGNORE all of this? They say they can’t do anything about it?

That’s not how the law works, hon. That’s now how the police work. You’ve provided them with an open and shut case. They don’t just ignore that.


"I have cameras and monitors around my home."

Cool. You must have captured some really great shots of the zodiac?


"I am a very good shot (he knows this)and I will shoot, not make a threat to shoot."

How does he know this? And how do you know that he knows this?
Sounds like both of you are mind readers. And you communicate to each other by sending one another thoughts.

"One night when he was in my back yard, I called the police. He was seen driving away from my home by the back up officer. That officer said that when he is called for back up, he can't turn around and chase the suspect,he has to proceed to the other officer."

Sorry, hon. That’s not how it works. And you talked to the actual backup officer? How did that work? You call 9-11 and they transferred your call to the back-up officer? And why didn’t the “other officer” IE the main officer follow the suspect? The back-up officer got there before the main officer?
Your statement makes no sense at all. If the back-up officer knew the vehicle description, he would have followed and stopped it. Or radioed the officer at the scene.

"Kane did a drive by about 4 months ago.He no longer will talk to me on the phone,he just stays on the line for a minute or two then hangs up.He just wants me to know he is still around. "

So Kane is the zodiac? I’m so confused. Now you say he isn’t. And how do you know it was him calling

"My guy has been to Montana, they both worked at UC Berkeley, they are a lot alike,except my guy likes to watch his victims die up close.Before TK was caught, my suspect tried to take credit for it by useing a high lighter on a news paper artical about the bomber and leaving it for me to see,"

Again, how do you know this? How do you know he liked to watch his victims die up close and personal? Are you a mind reader?
Awesome! He left you a newspaper article? More dna and finger print evidence. It looks like you’ve got at least 10 different items with the zodiac fingerprints and/or DNA on it. Plus a couple with blood stains. Plus you have his name. Vehicle description, several license plate numbers. He has called you multiple times, so there are phone records. You have pictures of him. You have the bullets that he fired into your house.

With an overwhelming amount of physical evidence. Plus you as a witness and several of your friends as witnesses, including one he almost killed. And you have connected him to multiple murders in other states. Why aren’t the police all over this guy?


"One of the strangest things that happend was someone put a new package of hollow core clothes line inside a package around the mid 80's( some of my clothes line was

For what it's worth
6/9/2018 05:51:58 pm

JTF, you've hit the nail on the head so many times that you've knocked it clean through the plank and out the other side!

The whole SB/Zodiac tale reminds me of one of those late night budget documentary shows about alien abductions and "proof" of the supernatural caught on camera. You watch for an hour or more. They keep you in a state of curiosity and suspense by providing tantalizing glimpses of the "smoking gun" evidence, only to be revealed after each of the lengthy advertisements. Then in the final three minutes they show some grainy, dark, out of focus footage that could be anything from a moth flying past the lens to the neighbour's cat coughing up a fur ball, and you are expected to be awe-struck and unable to contain your excitement at this huge revelation. Well most of us are left with an empty feeling,especially after the numerous promises to provide the real evidence never succeed in making it through the ex's front door. Always it is someone else's fault, either our own for being confused and ignorant, or the ex's or the cops for being uncaring or holding some grudge. The story is as predictable and tired and smelly and worn out as a pair of 50 year old flip flops.

Just The Facts
6/10/2018 08:32:27 pm

For What It's Worth - thank you.
I apologize for how hard that was to read. I copy and pasted it from Word and had her parts completely in bold type. But when I posted it, the bold went away. Also, the spacing was off in a lot of parts. I had about 10-12 more points but didn't feel like beating a dead horse. Yes, I had too much free time on my hands yesterday.
The long and short of it is that if you break down her statements individually, they don't hold water. They are full of contradictions, coincidences and her just copying what other people say.
Her stalker shoots a gun at her twice - once in her own home. But later the "backup" police officer won't follow the suspect's car as he flees from her house? Seriously? "Mrs. Betts. You've filed 38 reports about a duo of men stalking you. Tonight, you called us to say one of them fired a gun into your home, with the bullet barely missing your head. I see the gunshot hole in the side of your house. But we aren't going to investigate it. We don't normally investigate it when people's homes get shot into, even if the homeowner has told us she has a dangerous stalker who she claims is a serial killer. That's not enough evidence for us to check it out, sorry." That's the dumbest thing I've ever typed in my entire life.
And all the talk about this hood that is at her ex-husband's house. When she has multiple items - including some with bloodstains, multiple letters with stamps, etc - in her possession. Makes no sense.
The stalker is making small holes in her front yard?
The stalker is dressing up like a woman and coming to her restaurant, where he uses multiple difference voices?
The stalker is Kane....until it isn't.
The stalking really started after she bought the yellow book. But she details the stalking starting in the late 60s. Hhhmm. The book came out in the late 80s. So which is it? Before the book came out, he was leaving her evidence from the murder scenes. Whoops.
And how would Kane and Honcho know that she bought the book?
It's crazy to think that the Zodiac has randomly chosen to stalk a woman for almost 50 years. And has given her dozens of pieces of evidence that would send him to the electric chair. Even tried to kill her. And is still stalking her today.
Twenty years ago she says the dude had the shakes really bad and that effected his walking. (Of course, this couldn't be because one of the victims said he noticed the Zodiac's hand shaking).
It is mindblowing that anybody believes this crazy made-up story. My post was just off two pages of her story. There are 100 more false statements I could rip apart.
It is just sad that people let her spread this nonsense around and don't call her out.

TheWhiteBirdFlies
6/12/2018 07:23:04 am

You people have no idea the lengths that Sandy will go to to protect and support her claims. FYI, her ex husband recently had a house fire. I'll leave it to you to speculate as to what may have gone up in smoke. Maybe she's setting up the next chapter in her saga.

Sigmund
6/12/2018 04:32:57 pm

Yes, I recall others have said that would happen in their comments above. It is a simple, slight of hand trick, commonly known as "shifting the goalposts".

The big problem of course is that by changing the rules to accommodate newfound anomalies, you automatically change the outcome.

How wide will Sandy's goalposts have to grow in future to accommodate all of the complex threads that have been woven and layered into one very long and tangled ball of yarn? Finding ways to even out the knots must in time become extremely exhausting work.

For what it's worth
6/12/2018 04:37:00 pm

Now that is what I call real "Smoking Gun" evidence! Up in Smoke, literally! Sounds like some bad pun from a Cheech and Chong flick. ROFL!

Burt Reynolds
6/13/2018 08:25:42 pm

You guys need to stop harassing my former almost girlfriend. The one that got away.
The costume isn't important. Sandy has tons of other items that have the Zodiac's dna, finger prints and blood on it. Letters, post cards, a bible covered with blood, and several other items.
The costume would be cool. But it really isn't needed. Sandy has at least 10 other items that contain the identity of The Zodiac and his partner.

Not My Real Name
6/13/2018 02:52:29 am

I suppose that's one way of getting out of the corner you've painted yourself into; burn down the walls that you're pinned against.
As if her tale isn't already questionable enough. LMAO!

For what it's worth
6/13/2018 04:32:29 pm

I haven't actually been able to verify the claim made by TheWhiteBirdFlies, but I don't inhabit any of the forums on which Sandy is likely to post.

If the claim is true, I am sure Sandy will have worded her statement vaguely, in a way that could have any number of possible meanings. So it will be open to different scenarios depending on the circumstances, which is, of course, the M.O. that we have all come to expect.

It also goes without saying that in her view any interpretation made by others that results in a negative response will be explained away as the poster misinterpreting some critical detail or getting "confused".

But, as I said before, I have been unable to verify the poster's comment. It matters little, because a questionable story still remains a questionable story. So nothing has changed. I guess if the claim is true, well this only makes the story even more questionable, if that is even possible? lol!

Big Tom Voigt
6/13/2018 08:22:16 pm

Come on fellas, can we stop talking about Sandy and refocus on what is important? Me!
Let's talk about how awesome I am and how I am Mr. Zodiac. Come to my forum and help me hurl personal insults at anybody who disagrees with me.
And let's talk about all the shows and podcasts I've been on.
I'm kind of a big deal, guys.

JohnPaul Louis Johnson
6/21/2018 04:03:30 pm

tom voight is a total pansie fake media conjuring asshole. i dare you to respond and look at my evidence. you are in same gang as Sandy you lil circle jerk con artist!!!!! i got plenty of courtesy for you tom. this life and the next. you try and silence me and rob me. you try n help the Zodiac you lil pedo punk beezy. Your going to be the next to be exposed and slammed all over every website zodiac blogg. you tryd to stop me! your a failure . lol lol lol

Big Tom Voigt
6/22/2018 08:11:21 am

You have no evidence JohnPaul. Only I do. For I am the great Big Tom Voigt. I know more about the Z case than everybody else.
Haven't you seen how many podcasts I've been on? Haven't you seen how many TV shows have used my quotes? Haven't you seen all the news shows that cite me as a source?
Sure, I've dedicated my entire life to solving a case that I haven't came close to solving. Sure, I'm a jerk to people who disagree with me. Sure, I come across as as egomaniac who is a HUGE baby in real life. Sure, I've backstabbed and lied to friends and tried to sell documents that were given to me to share for free.
But at the end of the day I am still Tom Voigt, owner of a Zodiac Killer website. I am a huge deal. I am internet famous and are you are not.
Respect me, damn it. I'm a really big deal.

JohnPaul Louis Johnson
6/21/2018 03:59:25 pm

Sandy is a con Artist and should be a suspect involved with the same group or theater cult as the real and true Zodiac Killer. I met her while looking for help. She had in her possessions tape recordings of the Golden State Killer apparently leaving messages on her phone. its the same exact voice. And ill tell you this... do a people search on Mr Deangelo youll see he was affiliated with the Bonannos so all of you should know both cases are mob related. Sandy is and has always been a distraction. She carries pictures that were photoshopped before he last breast job and thinks they are so impressive. not at all. she is one lame dame and should never have anything to do with this case again. I am a true survivor and her and Howard Davis wasted my time and did not listen at all. they have their head so far up their own asses is disgusting. The history channel televised the real killers intials when their super computer unlocked a cipher revealed to L shaped patters with letters. those were his intials. People all over SF are trying to stonewall and keep the truth quiet. i made sure them circle jerks get plenty courtesy. Eff you Sandy!!. Your a disgrace and you work for perverts . You will be exposed along with all your sleazy snake hollywood failure pedo friends. Shalom

For what it's worth
6/22/2018 12:01:49 am

Interesting take on the whole sorry saga. So you think that the Italian sounding names must relate to the Mob and Sandy's story and Tom's constant delving into "suspect" suspects is all an elaborate conspiracy to detract from the real issue and thereby protect the GSK and the Zodiac? This line of thinking also tends to presume that Toschi, because of his Italian-sounding name(?), must have also been a part of said conspiracy?

Hmm, sometime I wonder if we are mistaking "criminal genius" for something far less sinister? The story as it relates to the Zodiac is for the most part far from believable, and does seem to provide distraction and wastes people's time. Blaine's testimony was dismissed by the FBI in about 5 minutes, yet Tom persisted with the story until it had gone well past its expiry date. I agree with many of the broader sentiments that you have expressed. But once again, I wonder if you could be confusing these two coincidental blips on the Zodiac radar as an elaborate conspiracy when the real reasons for their existence are far more ordinary?

Just The Facts
6/22/2018 08:16:16 am

While it is true that Sandy and Tom are both frauds. And their lives achieve meaning by their attachment to a serial killer - which is weird and sad all rolled up into one ball. But the mob connection doesn't seem to have much validity to it.
Though I suppose it isn't out of the possibility. A mob killing or two. Then a high ranked mob official being smart enough to try and draw attention away from the mafia by creating a pretend serial killer. That would be a good movie to watch.
Lol about Sandy and her enhancements. That sweet old lady has had breast enlargements and flaunts them? If that is true it is pretty funny. I suppose that would make sense as well, fitting into her constant "look at me" attitude and constant need of attention.

Burt Reynolds
6/22/2018 08:19:22 am

You all better stop talking trash about my dear sweet Sandy. She has had two fellas following her around for 50 years, through different cities, all while they are committing crimes and murders in different states.
Sandy and I will have the last laugh soon. Soon she will turn in the Lake B costume to the police. Along with the other items she has with human blood on them, postcards/letters/stamps with the Zodiac's DNA and finger prints on them, and she will be laughing while you scoundrels will fall to your knees in embarrassment and will have to apologize.
Then, hopefully, Sandy and I can be reunited to see if that flame between us still exists.

Not My Real Name
6/22/2018 10:50:08 am

Breast enhancement? You mean there's something fake about Sandy?

Gee, I didn't see that one coming.

No one will suspect
6/23/2018 06:27:01 pm

I'm surprised that none of you have figured it out yet and realized Sandy Betts is Zodiac.

Sigmund
6/23/2018 06:46:09 pm

Of course! It all fits perfectly. The somewhat feminine style of writing, the differences in hair color, even the high-pitched "Bye-eeee!" recorded by the dispatcher...

No one will suspect
6/23/2018 07:12:11 pm

Who else would have all this zodiac paraphernalia but zodiac herself? It is now my hypothesis that Zodiac went through a sex change operation in the late 70's and is now sandy betts and she is trying to explain away the fact of why she is in possession of all this incriminating evidence. I will now create my own website so I can sell my Zodiac was a woman coffee mugs.

Zodiac
6/24/2018 05:49:35 pm

I wouldn't touch this crazy bitch with a 10' pole

Uncle Sporkums
7/27/2018 10:52:52 am

Tom Voigt is a very handsome man. Does anybody know if he is married or not?
Smart, handsome and funny. I'm tired of kissing his ass online. I would like to meet him in person and let him know how much I love him in real life.

Just The Facts
7/31/2018 09:45:19 am

That's funny. But clearly not true.
We all know that Voigt has multiple alt-accounts on his forum, which he uses to support his own theories and to keep traffic numbers up (makes it look like more people are posting than actually are).
Remember, he did this on Amazon a few years ago to discredit a book/author that he didn't like. Voigt opened up several amazon accounts under fake names and then used these alt-accounts to post negative reviews of the book. Think about that. That's the kind of guy he is. Sad.

Rude Dude
10/24/2018 11:29:09 pm

Wow!!! Rude and ignorant children in this reply section. Obviously from silver spooned backgrounds with not an ounce of true street credibility or Z cred. For everything you knock Sandra Betts about, such as her memory and time frames being incorrect, well let's take a look at your history. Obviously you're much younger than her. And according to your moronic minds Sandy should remember everything and every detail. So again according to you morons and using your own words, thoughts and reasoing you have said is that you made a 100% on every test that you have taken your entire life in school or career. Because you studied and knew your material so well that the only grade you should have made is a 100% every single time. Right? You studied all night, paid attention in class or not and there's no way you've ever missed one single question... Right? So you hyenas are either trying to shame her for your own reasons or really don't know what the hell your talking about when it comes to this subject and topic. You think you do...but it's clear that you don't. Rude Morons all of ya. Her story is without a doubt 95% facts. She is wrong that there were 2. In fact, there were 3. Which is why her story is so confusing to her and the morons who read her story. Blonde hair, brown hair, shaven, unshaven, curly, short, tall, handwriting, phone calls etc sources of 3, not 2 or 1. What's crazier, than some of you morons, is the guy named Frank that she told to leave the door open when he smoked. Sounds and is named after one of the 3. Wonder if it could have been? Which would be exactly why the other in the burnt orange sweater knew where they were for breakfast...and why he walked over when "Frank" was there. You morons have "no proof" of anything yourselves. None. So, STFU until you do...Sandy's story is real and solid. She's defensive because there's some morons who are bashing her story and life events, but they have no idea what they're looking for. They think they do, they really do, that's called ignorant, crazy and insane. Sad that your free to roam the planet outside of a zoo. Please don't ever reproduce. When you think the world is laughing at you, they are...if you can't speak polite, at least you can act it. Here's a little food for thought during your Z hunting. Lord knows you'll solve it one day. (Not holding my breath, but definitely laughing, at you) the 1990 Eureka card snowman, sure does look like the guy in her photo. Moustache, glasses, handwriting...You need to apologize for what you said...Quit worrying so much about her story...Her story, on this topic, is as real as it gets...Your just too moronic to know. And certainly classless. Guess mom and dad's checkbook and credit cards can't buy you that....Z (all 3) did live until 2009...Making her 50 year story very, very real and possible...You kids have a long way to go in life, you'll see how stranger it becomes the longer you can make it....IF you can make it...Thank you Sandy Betts for sharing your Zodiac story. Can't believe a bunch of morons called you crazy...What does that make them? Can't believe you survived all that...PS Great Burt Reynolds photo.. Only proves your story even more...

Tommy V
2/2/2019 10:16:13 am

Rude Dude you are absolutely right. You sound 100% credible and are definitely not a cuck. There is a great website on the zodiac called zodiackiller.com. You should come post there and share your knowledge with us. You will fit right in!!!!

Uncle Scrotum
2/21/2019 06:48:33 pm

Yea dude. You need to come to our forum. The owner is a really handsome, chill, intelligent dude. Really love that guy. Smartest guy I've ever met, in fact. Me and him are tight through, bud, so don't get your hopes up!!!

Lonnie Anderson
12/3/2018 09:37:10 pm

So let me get this straight - Burt Reynolds was the Zodiac?

Yoda
4/20/2019 04:37:37 pm

A convicted stalker, Tom Voigt is....

Luke
6/7/2019 04:58:39 pm

Voigt was also arrested for soliciting a prostitute.
A real class act.

Honcho and the boys
4/22/2019 08:57:17 pm

Sandy will never catch us hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Greg
12/30/2019 04:58:36 pm

Sandy's so-called "suspect" in her photos has for many years been known and identified. He is no mystery. His scar is a distinguishing feature, as is his rugged complexion, caused by years of hard work in the outdoors. And no, he is not Honcho, nor was he ever the Zodiac.

Coolie.Mctoolio
4/10/2020 11:54:20 am

I cycled through several emotions while reading the original post similar to, albeit an accelerated form of, the Kübler-Ross grief cycle.

At first I laughed because the claims made here are ludicrous.

Next was frustration toward the author for potentially diverting valuable investigative resources over the last 50 years due to what is obviously a personality disorder.

Then, my frustration morphed into anger directed toward her family and friends for not ensuring that she recieved qualified, effective medical care when the onset of these symptoms first became evident.

Then I laughed again because, against my better judgement and much like a train wreck, I read some more of the original post.

This was followed by a very brief feeling of admiration and respect for the author as I recognized how practiced one needs to be in order to spew this bullshit on command. Imagine if we could bottle this level obsession and devotion and provide it to cancer researchers.

Laughing again.

Then happiness and thankfulness that my life has not been defined by an unhealthy obsession that is not rooted in reality.

I'm gonna head home now and hug the wife and kids. Thanks Sandy.

P.S. I just saw the Zodiac Killer fly over my house.






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