THE SALEM CIPHER

11/1/2018

Robert Michael Salem's body was discovered by friends on the evening of Sunday April 19th 1970 at his 745 Stevenson Street, San Francisco residence. The autopsy concluded he had died on Wednesday April 15th. The article below was published in the San Francisco Chronicle on the morning of April 20th 1970. This is the same day that Zodiac's '13 Symbol' cipher communication was postmarked, proclaiming "I hope you have fun trying to figgure out who I killed."

Bearing in mind this article was considering a Zodiac connection, did the Bay Area murderer respond by creating this letter and mailing it almost immediately. The killer hadn't written since the 'Melvin Belli' letter on December 20th 1969, exactly 122 days ago. Therefore, do we conclude that [1] the Zodiac Killer just happened to independently write the April 20th 1970 communication, which accidentally coincided with the April 20th 1970 San Francisco Chronicle article, but he wasn't the murderer of Robert Salem. [2] He was the murderer of Robert Salem and had prepared the letter from the time of his death on the 15th, before mailing it on the 20th, or [3] He immediately sprang into action on April 20th 1970 after reading the article, and created the '13 Symbol' cipher in double quick time, designed his 'photoelectric switched' bus bomb diagram, and recalled the murder of San Francisco police officer Brian McDonnell on February 16th 1970, all in time to have this letter postmarked on the same day. To answer this question we have to go back six months.

Michael Cole wrote an excellent article entitled "My Name Is" Cipher Motivation that suggested the Zodiac Killer likely drew his inspiration for the '13 Symbol' cipher from an October 22nd 1969 newspaper article by Will Stevens, which laid down a challenge to the Zodiac Killer from the president of the American Cryptogram Association (ACA), Professor D.C.B. Marsh, to reveal his name. Apparently, several months later the killer duly obliged by opening his correspondence with the line "This is the Zodiac speaking. By the way have you cracked the last cipher I sent you. My name is...."

Michael Cole wrote "Clearly, the Zodiac did not send the cryptogram to Marsh, as had been requested (this non-public way of satisfying the challenge was apparently unacceptable to the attention-craving serial killer). Neither did he respond in a time frame that most would have expected. But these details matter little. In fact, the timing itself provides yet another reason to conclude that what we have here is a specific instance of cause and effect. As mentioned, this article was published in the Examiner on October 22, 1969. Six months to the day later, April 22, 1970, the people of the San Francisco Bay Area were reading about the My Name Is cipher in the Chronicle. This relationship between the Examiner article and the My Name Is cipher may well mean there is an even higher likelihood that the cryptogram does indeed encipher some form of the killer's name"

If the April 20th 1970 letter was referring to the Robert Salem murder, by teasing us with the statement "I hope you have fun trying to figgure out who I killed", then any manufactured correlation between the dates by the Zodiac Killer would rely on the Zodiac Killer committing the murder just shy of the six month anniversary and then mailing the letter. This would mean the Zodiac Killer could prepare the letter in the days between the murder and the mailing date of April 19th or 20th, to enable it to be postmarked on the 20th. If he didn't kill Robert Salem, and was simply responding to the San Francisco Chronicle with an unprepared letter, then his code and bus bomb diagram must have been designed with little forethought, and mailed in time to be franked on the same day. The other possibility, is he had the code and bus bomb diagram already prepared in advance and just added the text around these designs. However, there is one major problem. The photograph of the crime scene wasn't shown until a follow up article by Paul Avery in the San Francisco Chronicle on April 21st 1970. By which time, the Zodiac Killer had already mailed the letter.

It has previously been argued that the Zodiac Killer created the '13 Symbol' code in tandem with the 340 cipher, a matter of weeks after the October 22nd 1969 challenge by the American Cryptogram Association (ACA) and Professor D.C.B. Marsh.
The reason behind this claim was the correlation between eight characters on the final row of the 340 cipher and eight characters from the '13 Symbol' cipher (six being the circled eights).

On the left we have lined up the alphabet over the top of the cipher. Now calculate numerically the difference in each column. ie: C to N produces a difference of 11, whereas B and E produces a difference of 3. Non alphabetical symbols cannot produce a difference, so a zero is inserted. The resulting numbers produced have been color coded. The red section is before the first circled 8, the green section is after the last circled 8 and the blue section spans the first and last circled 8. Notice the perfect symmetry. The red and green numbers are identical read forwards or backwards, and the blue numbers again read identically in either direction, producing a mirror image. Is this a coincidence or is it by design.

The 340 Cipher was the Zodiac Killer's unsolved masterpiece, and being a man with an inflated ego, driven by self publicity, what better way to drop us a hint by placing his signature or pseudonym on the final line of the 340 Cipher. You will notice he placed the Zodiac crosshair symbol, followed by what could be interpreted as Zodiac and then an upside down Aries symbol, with a line on the top and a dot to the left. So what we shall do is place the correct spelling of Zodiac alongside the version he placed on the 20th line of the 340 Cipher and use the identical technique we used to create the symmetry on the '13 Symbol' cipher. The alphabetical difference of ZOD produces three zero's, the IAC produces 888. These two sets of figures incorporated gives us the three circled 8's found on his next cipher, as though he was carrying them forward. It is also apparent on the '13 Symbol' cipher that either side of the three circled 8's are the Zodiac crosshairs and an inverted Aries symbol, identical to the final line of the 340 Cipher. So, the author has effectively carried eight symbols from one cipher to another.

"In Christian numerology, the number 888 represents Jesus, or sometimes more specifically Christ the Redeemer. This representation may be justified either through gematria, by counting the letter values of the Greek transliteration of Jesus' name, or as an opposing value to 666, the number of the beast." Wikipedia.

The ZOD and IAC are separated. The first produces the 000. The second produces the 888. The two are then combined, to create the transition from the 340 cipher to the '13 Symbol' cipher. This was presumably designed by the Zodiac Killer when he created the 340 cipher sometime before November 8th 1969, with a view to his next cipher.

When the Zodiac Killer mailed the April 20th 1970 letter and code (assuming he wasn't the killer), he hadn't seen the way Zodiac was written on the wall of Robert Salem's apartment. Therefore, did the killer of Robert Salem just accidentally separate the ZOD and IAC of ZODIAC, thereby mimicking the Zodiac Killer's 340 cipher creation, when he had ample room on the wall to write it normally, or was the Zodiac Killer present at the 745 Stevenson Street, San Francisco residence on April 15th 1970, giving him the opportunity to create the design, and at least five days to prepare his letter? The April 20th 1970 code being the confirmation of his involvement in the murder. Was this the reason for the wording "I hope you have fun trying to figgure out who I killed"?

The crucified image on the wall of Robert Salem's wall may well be the Egyptian ankh. The ankh appears frequently in Egyptian tomb paintings and other art, often at the fingertips of a god or goddess in images that represent the deities of the afterlife conferring the gift of life on the dead person's mummy; this is thought to symbolize the act of conception.
Wikipedia.

84 Comments

Rubislaw 32 link

11/1/2018 02:28:57 pm

Thanks for laying out the bones of the Salem murder,Richard.

It's a difficult one,and you have done as good a job,as anyone,could have.

I think it it takes a lot of thought,to decide if Zodiac,was responsible,or not.I am certainly undecided,if that makes any sense.

I do believe,regardless,that the 13 symbol cryptogram,represented a new chapter,for Zodiac.

He had been going through hell,in December previous....just up and down,like a Yo-Yo....and culminating in a plea,of a sort to Melvin Belli,on December 20th.I suspect it was because of an eighth victim,and he was sure that he would be caught.

But,Belli was away in Europe,at the time,and unbeknown to Zodiac.So,''matters'' come to nothing,and Zodiac ''disappeared'' for Christmas,to lick his ''personally'' humiliating wounds,and recover.

So,the April 1970 letter,seems to be a ''new'' and reconstructed Zodiac...fresh out of the traps,with a ''super-sneaky'' cryptogram,and plans for another bomb.

The bomb plans ? In reality,pathetic.

The cryptogram ? A marvel in aesthetics.But was there a provable solution ? No.

We have probably all ''had a go''.It's the one solution I won't give away to anyone,but LE.

Not that it makes my solution any more true,than anyone else's.

A difficult article,to convey contents.

Thanks.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/1/2018 03:20:12 pm

Oh....I didn't know about the removal of an ear,in the Salem case.

Van Gogh is supposed to have removed an ear,in an argument with his fellow lodger and painter,Gauguin.Presumable,to make a point,and given that they were usually both drunk,when they did argue.

However,recent evidence,uncovered recently,suggests that Van Gogh had just received a telegram,from his brother,and financier,Theo,giving news that he [Theo] was about to get married.Perhaps Van Gogh was concerned that his ''safety net'' might now be severed [?].

Following his self-inflicted injury,he was taken in to a local mental institution,where he started to paint some of his,retrospectively,best work,including ''The Starry Night''.

Any clues,to be had [?].

[...probably not...].

Richard

11/1/2018 03:53:49 pm

In the previous Salem article it was stated that based on the 'Melvin Belli' letter mimicking the William Heirens murder of Frances Brown and the writing on the wall, the next crime may contain components of these, such as: writing on the wall, the use of a knife in the murder, possible dismemberment and a San Francisco connection. The murder of Robert Salem had them all, and the Zodiac signature in blood.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-robert-salem-murder

The Zodiac Killer wrote on Hartnell's door, then removed a shirt piece from Stine, then mimicked the lipstick killer words written on the wall of Frances Brown, then came the writing on the Salem apartment and the removal of his ear. Escalation or coincidence?

Rubislaw 32 link

11/1/2018 04:51:03 pm

Just trying to catch up,a bit here.

Dr.Marsh's challenge : Sure...but nothing else,apart from taking up the challenge,with a cipher offered,that only claims to reveal Zodiac's name.

Heirens murder of Frances Brown : ''For heavens sake catch me before I kill more I cannot control myself.''

Yes,a bit of influence for the Belli letter,from reading about a historic,and well documented murder case.Not least,the sheer brutality enacted in the murders of Heirens.

It just seems to me that,there is very little available,about the victim,himself.The murder is dressed up as something ritualistic,and,more particularly,Satanic.

I sense that Robert Salem was probably a gay man,and that he was killed by a boyfriend,or ''rent boy''.Then,a setting was constructed,to appear as if it was a ritualistic killing.

Salem was 40 [?],single,and a technical artist,living in San Francisco.

What more does anyone want,in being deliberately prejudicial [!]

We just don't know enough about him,to be sure.

11/1/2018 05:44:44 pm

Yes! Well done! Rubislaw 32 - It looks like a cover up. That Robert Salem murder scene.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/1/2018 06:10:01 pm

It certainly looks that way,BB.

Poor Mr.Salem....he takes in a ''stray'',to tend ''house'',and share his bed....

A ''fraught'' life for the gay community,in those days [?].Even your family wouldn't be seeking justice,too readily,in case word got out.

Yes,the ''symbolism'' does look spartan [?].

11/1/2018 08:21:30 pm

Maybe "cover-up" is not the right term. Maybe "a faked scene" would be better? I don't know. What would be the right term?

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 06:02:44 am

Yes,''faked scene'' could be it,BB [?].

With my comments,initially to Drew,below,I'm starting to talk myself into believing that Zodiac might have killed Salem....particularly,if he was a gay friend of WJGrant and Robert H.Coon.

Just when you think that you have a grasp on the murders that Zodiac actually committed,its starts to slowly escalate.

I'm beginning to think ''Elaine Davis'' for Zodiac's ''self'',and Salem,to remind the authorities that they should be looking at Grant,as ''The Zodiac''.

I'm depressed,to-day......and not surprisingly.

The Stine trip sheet would be a ''giveaway'' on Robert H.Coon,as part of ''Grant's gay inner sanctum''....but ''they'' are never going to give us the trip sheet....nor,the DMV letter.

Oh Well.

Nobody

11/1/2018 11:52:47 pm

I personally think the Zodiac had nothing to do with Satanism. He seemed to have his own "thing" going. I think the 8 balls were never meant to be interpreted as anything remotely Satanic in nature. I personally think his beliefs, at least the ones he suggested in his letters, was perhaps more in tune with ancient paganism than Satanism. But what would I know?

Drew

11/1/2018 11:55:37 pm

Nice work Richard!

Zodiac's potential involvement in the Salem murder is a perplexing proposition and if he was responsible for this heinous crime then our profile of the killer would alter dramatically. If the police did not believe that it could be the work of Zodiac then I'd be interested to hear a consideration for why that might be. It may not have been the blast threat itself in the dragon card that made them decide to publish the bomb threats. I don't think they had concrete evidence of his involvement but behind closed doors I don't think they discounted it.

It was different from his attacks on strangers in or around their vehicles but there are also many parallels to the MO he had demonstrated in his outdoor killings. Salem must have in some way been manipulated by a story or false relationship or persuaded by a weapon to allow the killer entrance. Like Salem Zodiac's victims were trapped surprised and defenceless in isolation. Torso stabbing with a large blade was not new and neither was writing at the scene or taking a souvenir. Considering the kimono and Japanese stylizing in this successful designer's apartment it's possible that knife/sword was Salem's? Without knowing whether the perpetrator carried the large knife into the apartment it is difficult to imagine the narrative.

I think there is little doubt that the April 20 letter was composed with care. If it was completed in a single day its contents were certainly a reflection of longer deliberation. The gematria code connection between the 3 ciphers is highly intriguing and is definitely more convincing than any explanation I've heard for any of those 'ciphers'. It may be the only genuine encryption in the lot. I would say it all sounds too convoluted if the theory wasn't rooted by the context of the Marsh challenge, the likely bogus 340, and the likely aggrandizing motivation of the 13 character cipher. If the gematria business did carry the ascribed meaning to Zodiac then that too must prompt a revaluation of the Zodiac's character and capacities.

My approach to discerning whether Zodiac was responsible is the consideration of the copycat theory. If it wasn't a copycat who cared little about convincing authorities like Baker claimed, then to my mind it was Zodiac.

If the Dear Boss letter date of the Lake Berryessa knife attack is not coincidental and the Exorcist letter with its Yours Truly is legit then these allusions to Jack the Ripper are akin to a possible Lipstick killer message here if not with the Belli letter as well. The ankh is still an odd element and I agree that religious overtones were intended if only as a jarring juxtaposition to the Satan Saves text. Although Zodiac continued to use his symbol on letters he did write that he would no longer be announcing his crimes. Perhaps this is another possible reason for distorting the presentation of the name on the wall. The ankh definitely for me does not make sense in a copycat situation.

Richard

11/2/2018 04:01:51 am

I cannot definitively state that this was a Zodiac crime, but like you say Drew, it really isn't that difficult for a copycat to add some crosshairs or a running victim count to the crime scene, as opposed to the ankh symbol (if that is what was intended). It reminds me of the scruffy codes in both Fairfield letters. It would have been so easy for a copycat to create several bold organized lines of code just like the 340 cipher, if his intention was to be believed as Zodiac. However, the designer of the Fairfield letters effectively went the other way and scrawled a disorganized array of symbols, that may suggest he wasn't attempting to deceive, something a copycat would be attempting to do. The fact that the Salem scrawling and Fairfield letters were widely considered to be copycats, indicated they didn't do a convincing job. But they didn't do a convincing job because that wasn't their goal. If it wasn't their goal, it may be because it's Zodiac.
The template for a Zodiac crime shouldn't be how much it mirrors a previous crime. The first two attacks were similar, but the similarity ends there. Lake Berryessa and Presidio Heights couldn't have been anymore different from each other and the first two attacks, so why do we look for absolute conformity in his writings also.
His modus operandi over just four crimes is a difficult argument to nail, and therefore, as you allude, doesn't indicate that an indoor crime should be precluded from being Zodiac. His confidence in sticking around the crime scene to remove a swatch of Paul Stine's shirt could only be magnified in an indoor setting, in which he had ample time to write whatever he wanted and remove whatever he chose. He did both. Is it possible Zodiac befriended Salem through his artistic leanings, after all, we know that Zodiac projected the idea he enjoyed the theatre and design, by the makeup of his array of correspondence, and possibly his creative leanings in the costume design. Assuming there was no break in, the killer may certainly have gained the confidence of Robert Salem along such lines. Discover the haunts that Salem frequented and you may discover a crossover to his killer or Zodiac. So, your thoughts Drew on the murderer manipulating his way into the residence of Salem through some false relationship is plausible. Zodiac seemed to latch on to celebrity, initially wanting an audience with F Lee Bailey or Belli. If Salem was particularly well known through his design of lamps etc, it is not inconceivable this is what lured Zodiac into this attack. Zodiac's murders got more daring with the car door, costume + phone call, the murder in a built up area + 'trophy', so an attack on somebody with standing, coupled with more writing and a severed ear could have been further escalation. Possibly this escalation continued elsewhere, resulting in Zodiac's eventual capture in 1971. In jail for an unidentified Zodiac crime would certainly have nipped his reign in the bud.
The April 20th letter for me, doesn't appear like something he just cobbled together quickly after reading the morning San Francisco Chronicle report of Salem's death. The fact that the 8's on the code are circled, either is highlighting their significance or is a combination of 0's and 8's (assuming a magic 8 ball or black ball wasn't the intention). These are the only numbers he ever inserted into a cipher (dismissing the backward P as a nine).
But I certainly agree Drew, the idea of a copycat not doing a good job of being a copycat, especially when you have hours at your disposal, could be construed as not being a copycat. The Salem wall and Fairfield letters just two simple examples. However, this is certainly not compelling enough to argue the Salem murder a Zodiac crime on its own.

Drew

11/2/2018 09:24:06 am

Without knowing more case details it is hard to tell whether this was actually a ritual killing or just gruesomely staged like one, not that either scenario would accompany an obvious answer about who the monster was. With Manson in the news there was motivation for an attention seeking killer to up the ante to secure headlines, but to what end if not to promote Zodiac? Clearly there was some mad strategy behind it.

The two most persuasive options may be that A) the madman from Montana with finger bones in his pocket who offered zero information about the crime is responsible for mutilating and killing this complete stranger and desecrating his apartment for as indiscernible a reason as his copping to it out of the blue.... or B) this is result of Zodiac continuing to escalate and evolve in his endeavours. If we believe Baker does that mean we should also take his otherwise completely undocumented story about the four pi serial killer cult extension of the Process Church as the truth? It doesn't sound like a particularly sound solution. The finger bones however do give one pause.

As you pointed out in the article Richard there is a great deal of coincidence that must be accepted if the crime is not viewed as Zodiac returning to his campaign. On one hand it is odd that if it was Zodiac who took this man's ear that he didn't send it to the newspaper with his letter or allude to ear removal in some cryptic fashion (like a Van Gough greeting card perhaps). On the other hand Zodiac was clearly done offering proof of his involvement in crimes and doing so would be difficult to do discretely and would spoil the game of 'figguring' out who he killed.

With almost nothing publicly revealed about the investigation into the murder of Robert Salem after 48 years, and with little media coverage, it seems unlikely we will ever be granted enough information to discover the truth. To my knowledge Baker has not commented further about it. The possibility that it was Zodiac however does as you have offered propose a logical doomed narrative for Zodiac losing his freedom or life within a year of this event. If he had become capable of this he was clearly completely unwound and quickly heading for the clink or casket.

Great article, great discussion!

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 04:21:30 am

Yes,Drew....the ''Dear Boss'' angle is almost certainly linked,also,with the ''yours truly'' in a later ''unconfirmed'' letter,also.

I'm going to have to take a overall appraisal over this...there is just so much about Zodiac,if we accept most of the ''unconfirmed's'',that is about Zodiac,wanting to telegraph to the authorities,that he was WJGrant,a latent bi-sexual,whom the authorities knew about.

This includes the library habits at JFK,Vallejo and Civic,Fairfield,the ''DMV'' letter,the authorities won't let go,on account of it gives clues to Zodiac attempting to gain a drivers licence,in Grant's name [...according to Lafferty..].The ''Edwards'' cut and paste,the postscript of the Benicia High School note,and evidence uncovered by Lafferty,himself,that Zodiac was changing out cars,to copy Grants car,at a given time.

Now,the authorities knew that Grant,a married man,was entertaining young men in motel rooms....but,what if Grant had a more ''civilised'' group of gay friends,for intellectual ''reward''....that Zodiac got to find out about,through his stalking.

It looks to me,anyway,that Robert Salem...and Robert H.Coon,would have been two such friends of Grant,in his private ''gay'' life.

More work to be done....with nothing taken for ''granted'' - excuse pun.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 04:31:26 am

...and of course,the Husted Report,with its ''confidential informant'',pointing the finger of guilt at Grant.

Who was the confidential informant,if not Zodiac [?].

Its all too much.

Riverside

11/2/2018 05:50:51 am

Please humor me. Can you answer the following questions truthfully and honestly with simple "yes" and "no" answers?

1) Are you suggesting the Zodiac was a police informant?

2) Are you suggesting the Zodiac was protected by members of LE?

3) Do you think those same members of LE were heavily and primarily focused on Grant as the top Zodiac suspect?

4) Do you think those same members of LE had an agenda to make Grant pay for the Zodiac's crimes?

5) Can you name these members of LE who were involved in the said conspiracy?

6) Are you suggesting the Zodiac had a personal connection with Grant, in fact knew him well?

7) Do you believe the fact that the official status of being "unconfirmed" attributed by LE to some letters alludes to some kind of conspiracy or police "cover up"?

8) Do you believe the Zodiac extorted Grant in exchange for keeping his sexuality a secret? One protecting the other?

Nobody

11/2/2018 12:00:42 am

I wonder if the authorities have tried to match up Stephen Crawford's DNA to this crime? Considering the ritualistic nature of that killing, I wonder if Arlis Perry was his sole victim? However the scene was possibly staged by Crawford to appear Satanic in order to throw LE "off the scent", in which case Perry may have been his sole victim.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 06:22:55 am

Thanks for your questions,''Riverside''.

There never was a conspiracy,of any sort.

The Vallejo Police,in the main,thought initially,that Grant was Zodiac.

As time went on,they started to realise that,if Grant wasn't Zodiac,then Zodiac was trying to fit Grant up,as Zodiac.

So,the VPD conducted extensive surveillance on Grant.This,because of their [..the VPD's..] belief that Zodiac may have been trying to set Grant up,for personal reasons....as opposed to Grant being an ''unfortunate selection'',by Zodiac.

In other words,the VPD came to believe that Grant might actually know why he was being set up,by Zodiac.....and therefore,know the identity of Zodiac.

But,as history shows,the VPD became too heavy handed,in their approach,to their task in hand.....and Grant subsequently won a court order,stopping the VPD from harassing him.

This ''for ever''.....and the VPD could never touch Grant,again.

To this day,there remains suspicion that Grant ''did'' know the identity of Zodiac.

And,a ''secret'' that he took to his grave,in 2012.

Riverside

11/2/2018 04:05:43 pm

Who are "they"? Please give their names.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 04:25:53 pm

This is actually both the Benicia Police and the Vallejo Police,since suspicions,on Grant,go back to the Lake Herman Road murders.

Naturally,it was the Vallejo Police,who had the greater resources,to conduct the surveillance work.

Riverside

11/2/2018 04:42:23 pm

Not a straight answer to my question.

Anyway, was Grant their only suspect? Was he among many others? Was he very high on their list of priorities? If so, how do you know this for certain? What are your sources?

Riverside

11/2/2018 04:14:06 pm

"So,the VPD conducted extensive surveillance on Grant.This,because of their [..the VPD's..] belief that Zodiac may have been trying to set Grant up,for personal reasons....as opposed to Grant being an ''unfortunate selection'',by Zodiac."

Do you have a copy of the actual police reports stating this as a fact, or are you merely taking the word of Lafferty on this?

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 04:38:13 pm

I gain my information,from a number of sources,including corresponding with Lafferty,who,as everyone is aware was,for many years,in the employment,of the Vallejo Police Department.

As with,almost everyone else,I am unable to have been a ''fly on the wall''.

So,Riverside,,,,there we have it....and have to make the best of what we do receive,with our disadvantages.

Adopting a sniffy attitude,amounting to interrogation,will no get you very far,nor find you favours,in discussions of this nature.

Comprendez vous ?

Riverside

11/2/2018 04:45:49 pm

You know the problems and yet you seem very happy to repeat and extend the innuendo from your less than reliable sources.

Are you going to resort to a personal attack on me for asking pertinent questions? I understand that personal attacks are not permitted on this forum and result in deletion.

Drew

11/2/2018 04:56:55 pm

You might start with the police files Riverside.
http://www.zodiackiller.com/ZodiacPoliceReports.html

Riverside

11/2/2018 05:21:29 pm

Thanks Drew, That is all I wanted to know really. The source of the story, because I do not trust Lafferty at his word.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 01:54:47 pm

Hi Richard.

Just to park a small detail,with you,regarding the possibility that Salem,Coon and Grant,may have known each other,through a ''gay'' network.

For,the likelihood is that Zodiac ''hoaxed'' as Coon,in phoning up the VPD,as first caller,in response to the publication of the Harden's 408 solution.And,Zodiac's numerous ''inferred'' impersonations of Grant.

Coon and Salem,both lived on Russian Hill.They lived approximately 6 blocks away from each other.

Coon lived at 345 Hyde Street.

Salem lived at 745 Stevenson Street,a small cul-de-sac that looks on to 8th Street.

Hyde Street runs into,and becomes 8th Street.

Effectively,Salem and Coon,lived on the same road,about 6 blocks apart.

Richard

11/2/2018 02:37:49 pm

If Salem was homosexual, then Zodiac could have chosen him to prove he had no empathy for gay people. On October 18th 1969 Paul Avery ran a piece in the San Francisco Chronicle describing the Zodiac Killer as a 'latent homosexual'. Under the banner Zodiac-Portrait of the Killer he stated "The killer of five who calls himself 'Zodiac' is a clumsy criminal, a liar and possibly a latent homosexual."

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 02:57:23 pm

Indeed...this gay ''angle'' is certainly worth exploring,even if limited,with regard to how far we can take it.

There is the ''Fag Fee'' possibility,on the Halloween Card....which now appears to be replicated,in Scorpion's ''S5'' cipher solution.

Of course,we may be ''clutching at straws''....but if,as I proffer,the address ''345 Hyde Street'' appears in second position,on Stine's trip sheet,then matters could become ''clearer'' [?].

Coon's mystic teachings,combined Astrology and Christianity,with the 12 days of Christmas,equating to the 12 signs of the Zodiac.

And,we should not forget that,ordinarily,it would have been advantageous for Stine's perpetrator,to remove Stine's top sheet,of his journey details.

The implication,one could argue,is that ''Zodiac'' elected ''deliberately'' to leave Stine's journey details,in tact.

To,in effect,''bait'' the SFPD.

11/2/2018 03:39:39 pm

Back then "latent homosexual" would've been a major slur.

Richard

11/2/2018 03:40:07 pm

The only way to verify the 345 Hyde Street address is an FOIA request. But I wouldn't hold your breath!

Richard

11/2/2018 03:46:49 pm

In the early years of San Francisco it was against the law for men to dress up in women's clothing, but an exception was made for one night only on Halloween, a pagan celebration that would become the adopted day for gay celebrations. Sarria encouraged patrons to be as open and honest as possible, exhorting the clientele, "There's nothing wrong with being gay–the crime is getting caught," and "United we stand, divided they catch us one by one." At closing time, he would lead patrons in singing "God Save Us Nelly Queens" to the tune of "God Save the Queen". Sometimes he would take the crowd outside to sing the final verse to the men across the street in jail, who had been arrested in raids earlier in the night. Raids on gay bars were routine, with everyone inside the raided bar taken into custody and charged with such crimes as being "inmates in a disorderly house". Although the charges were routinely dropped, the arrested patrons' names, addresses and workplaces were printed in the newspapers. When charges were not dropped, the arrested men usually quietly pleaded guilty. Sarria encouraged men to plead not guilty and demand a jury trial. Following Sarria's advice, more and more gay men began demanding jury trials, so many that court dockets were overloaded and judges began expecting that prosecutors have actual evidence against the accused before going to trial. One favored harassment technique, employed especially on Halloween after midnight, was to arrest drag queens under an old city ordinance that made it illegal for a man to dress in women's clothing with an "intent to deceive". In consultation with attorney Melvin Belli, Sarria countered this tactic by distributing labels to his fellow drag queens (hand-made, in the shape of a black cat's head) that read "I am a boy". If confronted, the queen would simply display the tag to prove that there was no intent to deceive. Sarria's actions helped bring an end to Halloween police raids

Mason and Geary Street, the supposed intersection where fate carried Paul Stine to his death, bisects the Nob Hill and Tenderloin districts, and combines both the LGBT and theater influences under one banner, but reference was made by Robert Graysmith stating that Paul Stine picked up the Zodiac Killer from outside the Westin St Francis Hotel situated at 335 Powell Street, relatively close by. Jose Sarria was arrested at the Westin St Francis public restrooms for solicitation, a location frequented by homosexuals, and police in tandem, attempting to clamp down on such activities.

Riverside

11/2/2018 04:10:13 pm

Yes, yes Richard, we all know what the law was like back then.

How it was applied to Grant and Zodiac, if at all, is what is really at issue here. ;-)

Drew

11/2/2018 04:22:52 pm

Jose Sarria sounds like a really interesting guy Richard. I for one did not know what the law was like back then so thanks for the history.

Richard

11/2/2018 04:42:08 pm

I have read very little, if anything about Grant, so I can't comment.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 02:22:35 pm

Just park another thought :

The expression ''A figure of eight'',is actually exclusive to the number 8.

The expression denotes the shape of the number 8,as in a knot or trace of movement.Or,indeed,the symbol for ''infinity'',on its side.

''A figure of eight''.

11/2/2018 03:53:06 pm

"Staged Scene" is the term.

PS - Excellent response to Riverside R32

Riverside

11/2/2018 04:07:47 pm

Actually, he doesn't answer it satisfactorily at all. Too many alternatives and FAR too speculative.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 04:20:17 pm

Interesting stuff,on gay related matters,Richard.

I didn't know about the Halloween exception rule,for ''drag queens''.

And,the Westin St.Francis restrooms,having a gay related reputation,is quite an ''eye opener''.Particularly,with possibilities over Stine's cab,being notified of a potential ''pick up''.

Just on extras,that I've picked up :

Salem was a ''hippie type'',with long gray hair,and decorating his apartment in a hippie's style.

He had a cat,with six kittens,found when friends discovered his body.

He was stabbed seven times,and an Ankh sign,was also drawn on his stomach [ Ayin-Nun-Kak-Hey].

He was apparently,''in'' to Gurus...which suggests that he would have taken an interest in Robert H.Coon,even if he didn't know him.

As a thought,there could be a ''mysticism'' relationship,going on here,as opposed to ''gay''.

But then,there might be both,or none [?].

Richard

11/2/2018 04:31:23 pm

One of the most beautiful depictions of an Ankh was found in the burial artifacts of King Tutankhamen. It happens to be a mirror designed in the form of the Ankh, a wonderful play on words, as the word for mirror is actually Ankh. The Qabalistic work of Gematria numerology shows how similarities between words imply that they all share something, a bond that can reveal the essential meaning behind each of them. With this in mind, what do the following have in common: to swear, a mirror, life and to live? They’re all the word Ankh. Let’s include in this a remarkable candle holder found in Tutankhamun’s tomb, an Ankh with two arms outstretched from it to hold a candle, and a meaning begins to develop.

https://www.gaia.com/article/the-egyptian-ankh-symbol-of-life-and-more

An inscription with Tutankhamun's names, epithets, and relationship to specific gods is written around the loop of the upper sections of both parts of the box and also in a column in the vertical part. Within the loop of the lower part of the case are two cartouches, each with a uraeus at its side. The cartouches, which contain the throne and personal names of the king, and the serpents, are surmounted by solar disks. The corresponding area on the lid has the throne name of the king written with a winged beetle in place of the traditional one. It is flanked by two serpents whose heads are surmounted by solar disks and whose tails terminate in the hieroglyphic sign for "infinity" (shen). Below the name is a lotus, and the entire composition, inlaid in glass and semiprecious stones, was probably meant to be a reference to a myth involving the birth of the sun god.

The shape of the case takes the form of the hieroglyph ankh which can mean not only "life," but also "mirror." Such a use illustrates the adaptability and versatility of the writing system of ancient Egypt.

http://www.touregypt.net/museum/tutl44.htm

11/2/2018 04:37:25 pm

Just to add to this im not gay because i kill gays zodiac theme - is this unsolved murder in 1984.
Kurt Mcfall of concord, a 17-year old found dead on a beach in San Francisco Bay.

11/2/2018 05:05:42 pm

THAT IS GANGSTER RICHARD!

The ankh if for "mirror" - this opens up my understanding of Egypt.

That could mean that one would look in the mirror and see Life - real life per se - reality - actuality - the truth - as opposed to the stuff the culture/religion/law and "powers that be" were cramming down their throats. Especially like in the case of Akhenaten who wanted to be depicted as he was. And, not in the fake stylized customary way.

Drew

11/2/2018 06:25:36 pm

Alright fellas, we are all here to share ideas and have nice constructive discussions. Riverside you pose pertinent questions and Rubislaw you provide interesting commentary and you are both valuable contributors.

Riverside

11/2/2018 06:36:25 pm

Thanks Drew. I thought it was tradition for detectives,be they amateur ones or professionals, to ask questions.

Drew

11/2/2018 06:37:22 pm

William Grant was an interesting early suspect in the case. He was pretty old for the profile but there were reasons why they looked at him. I haven't read Lafferty's book but one of the intriguing aspects about him for me was that he was rumoured to have stalked Darlene Ferrin. In a very questionable years later statement a young lady who did babysitting for Darlene's infant relayed information about a man in a car that matches Grant's sitting in his car outside her house just smoking cigarettes. His name is redacted in the reports (and in Graysmith's book he is referred to as Andy something) but there is a lot to get into with him. I won't attempt to summarize Rubislaw's theory but it is interesting stuff to say the least.

Riverside

11/2/2018 06:41:26 pm

I have read Lafferty's book. I have already expressed my opinion of it and its author.

Grant was dismissed by LE as a suspect shortly before his death. He was not the Zodiac.

I doubt he ever had anything to do with the Zodiac, this is my opinion.

11/2/2018 07:10:13 pm

Until the Zodiac is definitively known we are all just throwing ideas up. So what does it matter Ray? Essentially, we are all - wrong until the DNA results come in. So, why not treat each other with respect? And, on that day when the bastards' name is announced; we can pat the head of the person closest to being right. I don't think anyone is exact nor can anyone be perfect. But, I don't think Rubislaw 32's ideas are half a crazy as mine. That the CIA is out to get us good people. Have I seen JFK one too many times? Of course that is nuts. But, that is the idea I'm cursed with until the dam Zodiac's identity is revealed. Peace.

Riverside

11/2/2018 07:29:42 pm

It doesn't matter. You are right. If you read my posts - carefully - you will see I was being perfectly respectful. I was simply asking questions.

My guess BB -- and please do not take this the wrong way, (which I am sure you will anyway) --- if you have been "cursed" to believe in conspiracy theories all these decades to explain the Zodiac, you will still be believing in conspiracy theories long after the Zodiac is identified. Leopards do not change their spots, as Rubislaw said above.

The present mystery. Why do you keep calling me Ray?

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 05:24:25 am

That's an interesting take,Drew.

Many enthusiasts won't touch the Husted Report,with a ''barge pole'',and I wouldn't blame them.

A report,really motivated by the Vallejo Police,on the basis of ''wounded pride''.

The VPD were so darn sure,that Grant knew ''something'',with regard to the Zodiac's identity.Whether it was a ''gay mafia'' organisation,or just a vendetta out of control....but they [The VPD],just couldn't put there finger on it,and Grant was giving away nothing.

So,when Grant won his court order,for harassment,against,effectively,all Law Enforcement and the press,the VPD were devastated.After all,it had been their responsibility,to try to coax some truths out of Grant.

So,in a way,the Husted Report represents an opportunity to set the record straight,historically,that they [The VPD] had acted in good faith,originally,and with noble intentions.

But,the report was only really ''concocted'',over a few unsubstantiated claims,and new information,at that time,from a ''confidential informant''.

In addition,we now see Lt.Husted,as more of a Col,Kurtz figure,as leader of the VPD,then.Essentially,''mad as a hatter'',and into all things mystic,including the use of Ouija Boards,to catch criminals.

Really,some aspects to the ''Great Zodiac Opera'',tend to beggar belief,save occasional light relief from the,clearly,tragic content.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 06:02:12 am

Just on the matter of Grant,himself.

He and Darlene may have recognised each other,on sight only.It seems that he did visit ''Terry's'' on occasion,for a coffee,and read of the newspaper...but that was it,and may have merely exchanged a few pleasantries with Darlene.The notion that Grant would have attended the ''Painting Party'' is ''poppycock''.

Grant was often in Vallejo for the ''gambling''.Yes,although many associated this with Reno...Vallejo had quite a reputation for illegal ''gaming dens'',in the basements of drinking establishments.These dens were frequented by off duty cops,as well as ''establishment'' figures,such as Grant,who was well known as a gifted speaker,and layman preacher,for Alcoholics Anonymous.

Just on the point of Lafferty's claims on the Zodiac,as a ''demon'' boy racer.Most of it was ''true''....but I would suggest,that Lafferty was calling it wrong,in believing that Zodiac was Grant.

No,Zodiac ''was'' Zodiac,impersonating Grant...and this,I tried to convey to Lafferty,a number of times.

But,Lafferty,s conclusion was always,that Grant had a two distinctly separate personalities.And,included owning two identical looking motorcars,to suit each personality.

Apart from Lafferty's ''flawed'' conclusions,his investigative work,on ''industry'' alone,was phenomenal,and handed over a ''towering'' quantity of investigative findings,about the Zodiac,to the authorities.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 06:56:09 pm

Grant was dismissed as a suspect,in 2003.

Lafferty knew this,and was honest about this,in his book.

It is his contributions to investigations generally,for which he will be remembered,and thanked.

A true legend,and the only Zodiac investigator,that caught the attention of the President of the United States.

Riverside

11/2/2018 07:32:31 pm

Thanks R32. It is amazing how many people have lived extraordinary lives and made huge achievements, been heroes, written books, and been recognized by Presidents - hell, even became a president - who are in fact less than scrupulous or honest people... when it suited them, or... for some of the time.

11/2/2018 07:38:52 pm

Thank god thats over

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 07:44:01 pm

Well,it just so happens that Lyndon Lafferty was the genuine ''honest god cop''.

There appear to be few about,but he was certainly one,and it would serve others well,to pick the correct subject matter,and select the right moment,to indulge in sarcasm.

Riverside

11/2/2018 07:47:59 pm

A very accurate analysis I think.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2144527/Zodiac-killer-91-living-California-claims-Lyndon-Lafferty-book.html

In his own words he called it a cover up. It is in fact the title of his book, no less!

In his own words: "Official corruption and political intervention forced the investigation into a top-secret, covert status, giving the insane ZODIAC killer immunity and a license to kill,' said Mr Lafferty in his new book, published on February 8 of this year.

If not a conspiracy theorist, what exactly?

Pipe dreams from a man with an all too vivid imagination. There was never any conspiracy to cover up anything.

Did he ever come face to face with the killer at one point? That much is possible, I will grant him that. But why the need for such soap opera dramatics? 'I looked into a quivering, snarling face like I was looking to the face of death,' Mr Lafferty said to the Daily Republic. 'It scared the hell out of me.' And yet he did nothing but live to write about it. Good for him!

Undaunted, he decided that it was time to blow the whistle.

'I had to wait until some people, including the suspect's wife, finally died,' Mr Lafferty said to the San Francisco Chronicle. 'But that has finally happened recently, and now it's time to tell the story.' How convenient for him! He should consider writing a book with his two biggest fans, Pam and Sandy.

Nobody

11/2/2018 09:19:30 pm

For a self-proclaimed cryptography expert I simply cannot stop myself from laughing whenever I read Lafferty's attempts at solving some of the ciphers. A good example is found in the link I am posting.

As for his book, I found it entertaining, but for the most part, I could not bring myself to accept his theory. I wonder if the fact of an ex-cop writing such a scandalous book about an alleged "high level cover up" of epic proportions had unforeseen consequences. I wonder if it caused an extremely negative impact on the case. It may have, in fact, directly caused many members of LE to steer well clear of it,who may have otherwise wanted to participate. Meanwhile Lafferty gets to retire on the basis of an entertaining book and came away with his nose completely clean.

https://books.google.com/books?id=QbFEBAAAQBAJ&lpg=PA398&ots=0MqlMFQRG6&dq=I%20SLUT%20YUTH%20HOTEL%20HIDE%20%7Badd%20IQ%20I%20TI!)%20'3'%3F%20...%20I%20_%20_.a..l__young%20girls&pg=PA398#v=onepage&q=I%20SLUT%20YUTH%20HOTEL%20HIDE%20%7Badd%20IQ%20I%20TI!)%20'3'?%20...%20I%20_%20_.a..l__young%20girls&f=false

11/2/2018 08:00:47 pm

You know. GSK's wife is in the news - telling the press to leave her alone. She is a lawyer. Some witnesses said they thought they heard a womans voice when they were tied up. So, journalists just want to ask her if that was her. She used her power as an attorney to permanently censure anyone from asking her.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 08:29:47 pm

By the way,BB,in reading up on the Egyptian Ankh,I also saw the notion that,on Salem's wall,the Ankh depicted by Salem's perpetrator,might be viewed as a substitute for a mirror.

It's a tantalising thought,given the well documented ''looking glass'' associated with the Tate murders [?].

Nobody

11/2/2018 09:22:07 pm

Perhaps this is a good thing BB. The media love a good story and are likely to get it wrong, thus potentially influencing the court case unduly.

11/3/2018 09:23:09 am

My point is - I just want to know if she was his accomplice.
She lived with him all during those years, and had to know.

Nobody

11/3/2018 01:53:39 pm

Well BB I'm not sure what to tell you.The powers that be would of course counter any such a desire from a member of the public or press with an abrupt "Who are you and why do you need to know?" We are expected by legal protocols to await the official outcome of the trial. That is just the reality and I do not make the rules.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/2/2018 08:07:57 pm

Lafferty,like Mark Hewitt recently,had to give his book a ''twist'',to please the publishers.

That is all.

The publication is,more often than not,their ''swan song'',to investigation.A needed ''pension'',to ensure that their widowed wives,don't go without,when they are gone.

I have been through Lafferty's book,at least 8 times,and I am always finding something new,that I had previously overlooked.

Like Graysmith,information may have not always added up,but these two ''stalwarts'' made a greater fist of the subject matter,and particularly as pioneers.....than anyone since.

11/3/2018 09:26:57 am

Very True - R32 - I think I need to get Lafferty's book.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 12:28:08 pm

Certainly worth it,BB,but not in a sort of ''stellar recommendation'' way.

To ''pick the bones of it'',if you will.

Whereas Graysmith,contrary what some might say,''does'' come across,as an accomplished diarist.

Here's the thing....all this historic talk about Arthur Leigh Allen,being or not being Zodiac.But to my mind,with Grant,he actually is the most tantalising ''person of interest'',on account of ''did he,or did he not,know Zodiac's identity ?''.

And,as you have just alluded to,BB,did GSK's wife know,or at least have an inkling,about her husband's secret life [?].Some might proffer : ''Oh,but she must have known something.'' It's certainly a dilemma.

It was ''Marion'',Grant's wife,with her legal connections,that helped Grant secure his court order,against police harassment....and,we assume,that she believed in his innocence....not only as ''not'' the Zodiac,but having no knowledge of who the Zodiac,was.

But,as Lafferty recounts,a short time after,the successful legal injunction,secured for Grant,Marion has a nervous breakdown.

Lafferty surmises that Grant told Marion,that he,Grant,was actually the Zodiac [!],and that they,as a couple,must never allow this to become known.

A bit of a predictable guess,from Lafferty ? One might think so.

Perhaps,closer to the mark is,that Grant told Marion,that he actually did know who Zodiac was,after all [?].

Poor Marion.She would have to keep this a secret,for the rest of her life,to spare their public reputations.

But,at what cost [?],we might think,and how they both had the nerve,to shore up,this ''secret''.

The simple answer,perhaps,is that there is no telling what people might say,or hide,when they feel threatened.

If,as I believe,Grant did know Zodiac's identity,and subsequently felt that he needed to share this secret,with his wife....then he only just got away with it,selfishly inflicting mental anguish,on Marion.

Grant,I believe,''was'' a victim of Zodiac,through prolonged and sadistic persecution.Grant never gave in.

Why ?

Because Zodiac held knowledge of Grant,and,in effect,held Grant to moral ransom,over this knowledge.

When the truth comes out,all the interest will be on Zodiac.

But,when the dust settles,and how the case is viewed,historically,I would suggest that Grant is not going to come out of it,very well [?].

For being a ''victim'',Grant may even be seen,as every bit as bad as the Zodiac.

Nobody

11/3/2018 01:57:25 pm

What if the Zodiac is identified and he never knew Grant?

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 02:32:58 pm

Naturally,this is a possible scenario.

What ''we'' do know is,that Grant only ever made one comment,publicly,following his legal injunction ''victory''.

This was,that from thereon,he was going to keep a loaded shotgun,in the trunk of his car.

So,we must assume,at least,that he,Grant,recognised that ''someone'' had been persecuting him.

The ''rest'' is conjecture,but it does seem that,privately,the Benicia and Vallejo police forces,have always had other ideas,on the concept of ''theory'',with regard to the truth of the matter.

Nobody

11/3/2018 04:05:21 pm

A lot of people back then carried loaded guns in their cars.

Anyone who has suddenly become the center of a criminal investigation and had unwanted attention thrust on to them, be it by the press or just members of LE, they would naturally get a feeling of being "followed" and become edgy and nervous and more than a bit paranoid. So carrying a gun around from then on does not mean he thought the Zodiac was "out to get him".

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 04:58:06 pm

Yes,Ray,that could be construed to mean that....or not

11/3/2018 05:26:31 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etYmg1_k-Dk

The Joker - Alan Watts

"We're all hams - actors who perform in an exaggerated way - to fit in”

"It is all a game" He speaks of many Zodiac things, and then he brings up the RAND corporation. War games. Intelligence.

One comment he made here is descriptive of the term "willow"

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 06:20:51 pm

Interesting that you should bring up ''willow'',BB.

You probably know of the town ''Willows'' [...ex-Willow..] [?].

About 100 miles North-West of Sacramento.

It's livelihood is largely dependent,on it being a regional governmental centre...including CHP...and,DMV.

My suspicions are that the Zodiac DMV letter,is Zodiac complaining that his application for a driver's licence,in the name of WJGrant,was turned down.

Wouldn't it just be the icing on the cake,if the DMV letter's envelope,was addressed to Willow,California [?].

''Tit willow,tit willow,tit willow....''.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 10:44:35 pm

Talking about ''games'',BB,I think our strings,have been pulled,once too often [?].

Peace to you.

Nobody

11/3/2018 05:30:05 pm

Were you replying to me RS?

Sully link

11/3/2018 05:10:23 pm

Rubislaw - The amount of Zodiac books produced the past 50 years probably has set records, I'll bet, huh...
Although a good %% of them belong in FICTION MYSTERY section of the library OR in a fireplace, any Zodiac book/movie exposure has kept LE chasing hot leads, dead end trails and everything in between.

Were you as disappointed as I was with Mark Hewitt's Unabomber story? Guess I set myself up for a let down with his wild stretch of imagination script. As per Gray-smith, I'm sure the goal is to sell books to Hollywood for a lump of big dough huh...

Rubislaw 32 link

11/3/2018 05:45:05 pm

That's a good,but difficult set of questions,to answer,Sully.

I don'y know about Hewitt's Unabomber story.

I presume you buy a few [?[,to make some keen observations.

I respect Mark Hewitt,as a writer.He and I fell out,a while back,and I admit that I haven't been ''jumping'' to buy his books [!].

Graysmith's luck,fell in with Hollywood.But I think he probably deserved it.His ''two'' are well written,and no one has attempted the ''Diarist's'' approach,since.

I used to think that Mr,Kelleher's ''Into the mind of a serial killer'',was the ''Gold Standard''....but parts of it are beginning to look ''dated'',and incorrect.

I have a collection of about a dozen,and I'm not sure that I will add to the collection.

I like ''Solving the Zodiac'',by C.Symons....because it is a good reference companion.I hear that Mr.Morford's new book is largely reference material,and might be interested,in that.

Do you have favourites ?

Some,could be re-categorized,under ''Humour''....or even ''Romantic Fiction''.

Where there is a ''market'',then there is an opportunity,I suppose [?].

Graysmith's two,are still difficult to beat,for a ''quick dip''.

Nobody

11/3/2018 05:36:08 pm

Not wanting to steal R32's thunder Sully, but I agree with your sentiments entirely.

This whole case has gone off into some kind of loony toons cartoon land... and the sad thing is, a great many people seem to be quite happy to see it head there, to the point of contributing to its imminent stylized reworking as a Tarantino epic or burlesque Broadway play!

Cheers Sully!

Tom1

11/4/2018 06:39:59 am

So true. Why do some celebrate the efforts of authors that purposely publish falsehoods under the guise of perpetuating interest in a mystery?

Rubislaw 32 link

11/4/2018 08:57:32 am

I think it just seems to be the way it is,Tom 1,as a combination of publishers ''leaning'' on the author...and the author ''balancing'' everything in their mind,as a sort of ''compromise'' outcome,to how the contents of their book,comes across.

Not wholly satisfactory,granted.

With Lafferty's ''The Silenced Badge'',I gather that he offered an author partnership,to his best friend,and assistant investigator,''Jerry Johnson''.

It is my understanding [...though stand to be corrected...],that Jerry Johnson wanted no part,in the finished ''product''.

Whether,it was because Johnson did not agree with Lafferty's final conclusions.I do not know.

I make no bones of trying to contact Jerry Johnson,over this matter,and Lyndon's library findings,at the JFK,Vallejo and Civic,Fairfield.

Though those,that might be able to facilitate a contact,with Johnson,have so far been unable to assist me,on this matter.I remain optimistic of speaking to Johnson,at some point.

It becomes tiresome to find the truth,in any aspect of the case....when ''some'' just don't want to get involved,for fear of upsetting anyone.

And yet,these same ''some'',are quite happy to sit back,and remain a fan of developments,in the case.

''No fortitude''...and it can become very annoying.

11/4/2018 10:37:14 am

Tom1

I think the answer is celebrity compels idol worship? We emulate those we admire to try to be like them. It is an attribute of survival. As for the "that purposely publish falsehoods" - I don't think anyone knows ahead of reading that the facts in the book you speak of are exaggerated fiction
As for whether the facts are actually effected by exaggerated fiction - the answer is not one bit. Who cares? Those folks lapping it up as fact - not one bit. People whom sit around worrying what others think. Why? The facts are stubborn things. They never change. And, there is nothing that can be done about that. They are set in stone forever. All the lies in the world will never change the truth. Some people are all show.

Believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. Trust - but verify. Talk is cheap. Show me don't tell me. Actions speak louder than words. The truth hurts. Why should lies hurt you? There is nothing to them - but the noise they make.

What does it matter - what they say? Only what you do matters. We are just shooting the breeze - if our words are fictitious. Unless what I say is informative of the facts. If I speak truth. Then we have significance and meaning. Other wise, it's just crap. And who cares? Do your own research. Think for yourself. When you read something - look into it for yourself, and determine the truth for yourself. But, be prepared the truth hurts. The lie feels good. The truth is scary. The lie is safe. The truth is complicated. The lie is a vapid bumper sticker. Most people go though life with rose colored glasses on. Ignorance is bliss. When you are living a lie. Life is like a Gordian knot. But, when your open to the truth - everyday is an epiphany. Scary, dangerous, complicated yes - but you feel most alive when you know it is coming to an end. And, today could be my last so I better make the best of it. The truth shall set you free. The biggest of all the cliche "a good speech writer will steer clear of clichés" I use them to make the point that what I'm talking about has been is existence for long time.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/4/2018 11:21:42 am

Well said,and pretty breathtaking stuff,BB.

Yes,yes.....the ''Cliche''.

Posting,in forum formats,such as here,was ''made'' for the cliche,and ''vicky-verka''.

It succinctly expresses,and facilitates communication.

And....oh yes,the ''scourge'' of fake news.

Now an accepted political ''tool''.....invented by ''Fleet Street'',as a playful sport.

That which gave Fleet Street,forever more,the name :

''The Street of Shame''.

11/4/2018 03:39:37 pm

Woodrow Wilson “Woody” Guthrie

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Guthrie

This Land Is Your Land

Woody died in 1967 - He had a feud with old Trump and even wrote a song about the greedy land lord.

Life time legacy of class warfare by the Trumps

S.O.S.

10/12/2019 04:05:31 am

I desperately need to speak to you regarding the code you came up with where you aligned A-M on top of the original cipher and then put in the numbers 0 -3-11 etc etc.

I have worked out the rest but i need to speak to you as you were the one who came up with this code which helped me CONFIRM my own findings.
This is absolutely ESSENTIAL that you contact me. What i have discovered will blow your mind.

Richard

10/12/2019 08:33:39 am

Hi SOS, I have ceased giving my email out by direct contact because of the occasional threat. Not suggesting that you are in any way anything but genuine, but now I just stick to direct communication through these comments sections. I hope you understand. But please post your findings here - I am only too happy to take a gander.and see how you've developed the idea. I have discussed several options previously to take the above presentation further, but have yet to convince myself with my own ideas. Maybe your idea is better.

Chad William Burke

2/11/2020 10:50:43 am

A little food for thought...

Split Alphabet cipher Backwards and fragmented.

My name is ---

AEN⊕♉K♉M♉λNAM
LINZANATAKNET

TEN KATANA Z NIL

🔑

MANKE λ♉⊕
TLNNI KAZ

Riverside

2/11/2020 03:05:03 pm

Are you suggesting he was a reincarnated ancient Egyptian named ANATANET KATATKATEM MANKETKAZATIN???

THE SALEM CIPHER

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