THE MURDERS GAINING DUST

3/13/2020

The first edition release of Robert Graysmith's book Zodiac was unveiled on January 1st 1986 with respect to the infamous Bay Area murders. Just over 4 months later, a letter arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle claiming the murders of Laotian couple Koy Ien Saechao (48) and Choy Fow Saelee (40) just three miles north of downtown Sacramento. These murders had all the hallmarks of the Zodiac Killer's first two attacks in Benicia and Vallejo, along with a sprinkling of the disputed Kathleen Johns abduction in early 1970.

The couple had been ambushed in their vehicle on the hard shoulder of Highway 99 by an unknown assailant, who fired off fifteen rounds from a small caliber weapon through the driver side window of their car in a seemingly motiveless crime. The question arises, as to whether this crime was the actual Zodiac Killer re-energized by the publicity surrounding the Robert Graysmith book, or whether the Zodiac Killer or a hoaxer had noticed the limited newspaper coverage this crime had generated, and by sheer opportunism decided to lay claim to the double murder. Of all the crimes linked to the Bay Area murderer, these murders are the closest to his Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs attacks (particularly the July 4th 1969 murder). The murders on April 22nd 1986 were exactly "two weeks" prior to the postmarked envelope of May 6th 1986, they occurred in "Sacramento" on a "freeway", and the murderer may very well have interacted with the "blue meannies" shortly after the crime.

The newspapers speculated that Koy Ien Saechao and Choy Fow Saelee may have pulled over onto the hard shoulder to take a rest, when they were possibly ambushed by another passing motorist. They were returning home from visiting their son in a Merced County hospital, an approximate journey of 3 hours from their residence in Dorman Avenue, Yuba City. However, their vehicle was discovered only 3 miles (and a handful of minutes) from downtown Sacramento, where it may have been a more logical place to pull over and seek rest from their journey. They were only 40-45 minutes from home, so passing a major city, where they could have sought comfort in food and a toilet break, only to continue for about 3 to 5 minutes and pull over onto a isolated and dark hard shoulder, seems an unusual choice. They may not have pulled over by their own volition at all - they may have been coerced to the highway edge in similar fashion to the Kathleen Johns abduction on March 22nd 1970 (a crime still not under the canonical Zodiac umbrella). Had Koy Ien Saechao and Choy Fow Saelee actually stopped at a diner in Sacramento and were followed the three miles to the site of their murder? Without knowing the time of their departure from Merced County and the estimated time of their murder, we cannot ascertain whether they had enough time for such a diversion into Sacramento. This timeline would be of crucial importance.

Highway 99 and Merced County was in fact the route taken by Kathleen Johns some sixteen years earlier, before she broke free and headed west on Highway 132 from Modesto. This likely has no bearing on the 1986 double murder, but the possible ushering of the victims to the side of the road in both instances, is nonetheless noteworthy. Despite the usual hoaxer being touted for the 1986 letter, we have 15 small caliber bullet casings retrieved from this crime scene (along with the bullets) sitting in evidence. Was there any other contact in 1986 from the Zodiac Killer, hoaxer or the "hitchhiker" who flagged down an East Nicolaus Highway Patrol Officer and informed him of the accident (that turned into murders) at the said location. Not only did the 1986 double murder resemble the attack on Michael Mageau and Darlene Ferrin on July 4th 1969, the murders were also followed by immediate contact with the police. Was the "hitchhiker" toying with the police or giving assistance - and more importantly, was it the Zodiac Killer to whom the Highway Patrol Officer from East Nicolaus spoke to on April 22nd 1986.

Kristi Hawthorne unearthed a possible link to the Bay Area murders while searching through some old newspaper articles. Taxicab driver Ray Davis (29) on April 11th 1962 was discovered in an alley behind 1926 South Pacific Street in Oceanside, having been shot twice in his taxicab. The interesting part of the story lies in a telephone call to police two days before the murder, in which the anonymous male stated “I am going to pull something here in Oceanside and you will never be able to figure it out". On April 16th 1962, it appears the same man rang the Oceanside Police Department once again, stating “Do you remember me calling you last week and telling you that I was going to pull a real baffling crime? I killed the cab driver and I am going to get me a bus driver next". This 1962 finding has understandably generated much interest in the Zodiac community and on television (and rightly so), yet here we have a potential Zodiac letter mailed twenty-four years later, in tandem with a crime bearing hallmarks to three previous Zodiac Killer cases, and likely thirty pieces of evidence still available for inspection. Despite having tried several times, getting a response from the Sacramento Police Department has proved fruitless - and these murders have been all but forgotten, apart from the family members of Koy Ien Saechao and Choy Fow Saelee, who no doubt yearn for a resolution to this case. Unfortunately, I won't be trying anymore, so hopefully somebody else reads this and picks up the baton.

39 Comments

Roger

3/13/2020 07:41:41 pm

The handwriting is indeed Zodiac's 100% IMHO. If the author was a copycat, I would have to say he was extremely good at it. I think Zodiac did indeed kill Koy Ien Saechao and Choy Fow Saelee. It was his M.O. to a "T". I think it was the Zodiac and he was telling Graysmith in no uncertain terms that he got it wrong. June 25, 1978 through 1987: Allen found sporadic employment in Vallejo, including a stint as an aide to senior citizens. Of course Allen was a free man, working at Ace Hardware on Tennessee Street for several years, and as a buyer for their tool and garden departments, but not a lot is known about his exact whereabouts during this lengthy period. The following timeline comes from zodiackiller.com

June 25, 1978 through 1987: Allen found sporadic employment in Vallejo, including a stint as an aide to senior citizens. Allen also worked at Ace Hardware on Tennessee Street for several years, as a buyer for the tool and garden departments.

Jan. 10, 1989: Bernice Allen died at age 83.

Feb. 14, 1991: VPD executed a search warrant against Allen and found a huge cache of weapons. Amazingly, even though Allen was a felon, no charges were filed. Enraged at the search, Allen began granting interviews with the news media to proclaim his innocence and blast the police. (There had been a huge amount of circumstantial evidence against Allen, including Ralph Spinelli coming forward with Allen's incriminating statements of Oct. 10, 1969.)

Aug. 1, 1991: Allen gave an interview to the Fairfield (Calif.) Daily Republic in which he claimed to have consulted with attorney Melvin Belli. (Zodiac had written a letter to Belli in December 1969.)

July 1992: Definite Zodiac victim Mike Mageau picked Allen out of a police photo lineup, saying "That's him! He's the man who shot me!". Some allege that he later appeared to be less certain when questioned again.

Aug. 26, 1992: Arthur Leigh Allen died of natural causes at age 58. He had been suffering from diabetes and heart problems.

*Aug. 28, 1992: VPD obtained a search warrant against Allen and found many interesting items.
(VPD has been extremely secretive about the results of this search. The objective was to seize a videotape Allen had in his possession that was labeled with a "Z." The exact contents of the video have never been revealed, although VPD has said there was no confession.)

But regardless of all this, there was no DNA match, no fingerprint match, and I have big problems trying to make Allen's handwriting fit the Zodiac's. However I am now quite certain Allen was indeed intelligent enough to have been the Zodiac, despite what others may claim.

Roger

3/14/2020 01:39:13 am

"I think it was the Zodiac and he was telling Graysmith in no uncertain terms that he got it wrong."

That didn't come out right. What I meant to say was the Zodiac was possibly answering Graysmith's book in the only way he knew how. Graysmith had made the Zodiac popular again! Once again he thought he could make front page news. This "sequel" to his earlier crime spree may have come after a considerable hiatus. Richard, was this letter ever published in the papers?

Richard

3/14/2020 09:42:16 am

I have never seen it in any newspaper article Roger.

Richard

3/14/2020 03:14:33 pm

I think it's very likely this communication was aimed at Graysmith in some form or another. I too believe it was likely penned by Zodiac -and if so - then how likely is it he would spot this little detailed crime in a Sacramento newspaper or other publication in 1986, while coinciding with books of Zodiac flooding the market place. Was he a Sacramento resident in 1986 who read the local press, or was he the murderer. From murders to letter was only 2 weeks in this instance.

Roger

3/14/2020 04:53:07 pm

I am sure many people, not only myself, would love to know what was on that videotape of Allen's labelled "Z". VPD have never released that information, but we are led to believe it contained highly incriminating information, although VPD did admit the video was "not a confession". It will be hilarious if the details of this video are released in future and it contains nothing more than a copy of an old Zorro movie that Allen had taped off the TV. LOL! Nevertheless it is interesting that a search of Allen's residence uncovered enough pipe bombs to level a suburb, plus a vast array of firearms, including pistols with exchangeable barrels. Ammunition the same kind that the Zodiac was known to use. Of course, he would not be alone. I am sure a raid on just about any back woods recluse would have turned up a similar array of weaponry. However, home-made pipe bombs would be a rather select "niche group" I should imagine, and does say a lot about the twisted mental state of Arthur Leigh Allen. Why would anyone feel the need to possess pipe bombs, let alone risk their own life constructing them and secreting them away in places they occupy? It kind of suggests he was of shady character and "up to no good", regardless of whether we believe he could have been the Zodiac or not. Why would a person accused of being the Zodiac continue to construct and keep such items? And I am sure he would have kept company with people of similar character to himself. He may not have been the Zodiac but he was certainly capable of being the Zodiac. Suspicion surrounding him will never die, even if the true identity of the Zodiac is ever revealed in future.

Roger

3/15/2020 02:56:57 pm

Richard, we need to keep in mind that the Zodiac case was plagued by very poor witnesses.

Mageau was flighty and a very reluctant witness, prone to changing his mind, or likely to back away from his earlier statements at the last minute and running away. I doubt he could have been trusted in a courtroom to stick to the same story.

Kathleen Johns was also panicky and prone to highly emotional fits and faints. This may have also made her a very unreliable witness, even though she potentially had spent the most time with the Zodiac as she sat right next to him. Granted it was night time, but she did seem to recognize her attacker instantly from the police sketch. But of course, given her emotional state at the time and subjective proclivity, it is possible that she might have pointed to any suspect sketch on the wall and started screaming.

Probably the only reliable witnesses were Cecelia Shepard who sadly passed away but did manage to give a statement, and Bryan Hartnell, who did survive to give some very detailed descriptions of the attacker, despite the fact he was wearing a bag over his head.

The other witnesses were all rather young and/or only saw the suspect at night time or from a distance.

Bob Cheney seemed to have an axe to grind towards his old friend Arthur Leigh Allen, So in a court of law Allen's defense counsel would have focused on this feud in order to have Cheney's evidence deemed tainted and inadmissible.

The same "pulling to shreds" would have no doubt occurred regarding the testimony of Allen's old nemesis Ralph Spinelli.

The anonymous letter postmarked July 8, 1974, which was critical of the writings of the anti-feminist columnist Marco Spinelli, would have been too long of a bow to draw by prosecutors and would undoubtedly have been left out of the evidence entirely. They could not prove the Zodiac or Allen had written it. Handwriting was inconclusive, DNA and fingerprints were a non-match. The only thing they had on Allen were the cache of pipe bombs and firearms found during the search, and, it is rumored, some books on codes and ciphers. If there was any more incriminating evidence, LE certainly has never told the press or public about it. Did they find a pair of wing-walker boots in Allen's belongings, or is this just speculation and rumor?

Nevertheless, prosecutors were still intent on giving Allen his day in court and this trial would have gone ahead if Allen had not died suddenly from a heart attack. I personally think Allen would have been exonerated due to a lack of evidence, as well as the poor character quality or potentially tainted nature of the prime witnesses. Geographically, Allen was well placed to have been the Zodiac, but really, he was no better placed than Robert Dale Edwards (as just one example) when you think about it. The real Zodiac may have never once crossed paths with Allen and may not have permanently lived in Vallejo or the Bay area for that matter.

Roger

3/15/2020 02:59:29 pm

Not Bob, I meant Don Cheney of course. :-/

Rubislaw 32 link

3/14/2020 01:51:35 am

Interesting , Richard , on the employment of '' Ca '' and '' Na '' .

Both officially never accurate .

October 1963 saw the introduction of the '' Two Capital Letters '' use for United States States .

For California : Calif . became CA

For Nevada : Nev . became NV

And , CA has never officially been '' Ca '' , probably on account of Georgia having been '' Ga '' , and the Post Office did not want any confusion .

With NV never having been '' Na ''.

A suggestion , perhaps , that a presumed Zodiac was being '' slap-dash '' , or even mischievous ( ? ) .

Possibly mischievous , with '' Ca '' and '' Na '' standing for Calcium and Sodium .

The Zodiac had employed '' Calif '' before , so he probably knew what he was writing , all too well ,

Mark Hewitt once wrote an extensive article about the Zodiac's employment of '' San Fran Bay Area '' , in the Radians and Inches periodical . The suggestion being that the Zodiac was probably an outsider to the vicinity of San Francisco who , would be familiar with '' Bay area '' only .

Although , more likely , simply '' disrespectful '' use , '' Ca '' and '' Na '' tend to indicate that the Zodiac was an outsider to that part of the USA and , probably only a temporary visitor ( ? ) .

Richard

3/14/2020 03:07:12 pm

Because it was preceded by "all over the state of Ca and Na", I can accept he probably meant California and Nevada (rather than Napa). However, Calcium and Sodium aren't American states, only matter in a particular state. In this respect, I would go for the obvious of more murders over California and Nevada, as opposed to a mischievous Zodiac. It would buy into your roaming Zodiac perspective.

Roger

3/15/2020 03:17:22 pm

The Na is interesting. He could potentially have been playing games with semantics there by implying a possible connection to Napa, as well as more overtly suggesting the state of Nevada. A double entendre if you will?

Rubislaw 32 link

3/14/2020 03:33:13 pm

I sense that the Zodiac picked this crime , out of a newspaper , or similar , Richard .

Something about the '' I have collected about two weeks ago up by Sacramento Ca...'' that doesn't ring true , in terms of the Zodiac's personal involvement .

When a part-time or most-time resident of the Bay area , and probably Vallejo , during his known reign of terror , there is persuading evidence that the Zodiac kept a crime scrapbook , for the purposes of red herring referencing and plagiarising .

But , with this letter , the Zodiac appears to be '' on the hoof '' with probably not that much to go on , with relatively local news .

The crime itself ''screams'' road rage , in to-day's parlance , whether Zodiac responsibility....or not .

I think '' not '' .

Richard

3/14/2020 04:36:07 pm

I can certainly accept that Zodiac may not be responsible for the murders Rubislaw. However, what I advocate for (just like Oceanside), is if there is even a sliver of a chance, there are bullet casings and bullets available for testing. Did they have similar or the same markings as any Zodiac ballistic evidence? They considered the possibility of this in the 1962 Oceanside murder, but in this crime, despite also mimicking a Zodiac crime, we have absolute silence - and the 1986 crime does have a letter attached to it, whether Zodiac or not. If all the furor for comparing the Oceanside crime to the Zodiac crimes, why not the Sacramento murders? The cases are not being treated equally for some reason..I know the reason why, but I don't believe I have to, because it's self evident. While these murders may not be Zodiac, should it just be ignored as a possibility by investigators - I don't think so. A ballistics comparison takes no time at all. My personal opinion is this crime had never been linked to this letter until I made the connection 6 years ago. Everybody got sidetracked by Devon Stuart Olsson claiming these murders along with another 9 murders. None of which he was ever linked to and was roundly dismissed by law enforcement.

Roger

3/14/2020 05:19:04 pm

I agree Richard! I think what has happened is Oceanside PD are presently looking at their cold cases and are willing to entertain theories from the public. Other counties like Sacramento may not be, or are keeping quiet about it. Some counties seem more inclined to "move on" and let the old cases gather dust. I guess it is a problem of numbers - some counties have higher crime rates than others. SFPD for instance are probably so busy trying to catch up on their current case loads, that old cases languish due to a simple lack of resources, the main one being staff. However I did find it interesting that SFPD were interested in catching the Doodler, yet they have consistently showed very little interest in catching the Zodiac. Perhaps it is a question of expenditure? Detective Toschi and Armstrong spent so many man hours on the case that it upset the bean counters higher up the bureaucratic "food chain". They spent a lot of time and money with limited results - gambling it all on a single suspect who would ultimately be ruled out on the grounds of fingerprints and DNA. The bureaucratic rationale is re-told rather too bluntly in the Dirty Harry movie, but in real life Detective Toschi had to also contend with an apparent lack of communication and co-operation between different counties.

What is needed across the board in the United States, is an official resurrection or establishment of cold case units in every county, which possess the ability to freely share their information. This would of course involve an influx of much needed federal, state, and county funding, but I am sure that the American voting public would be in favor of such a policy if it was presented to them.

Roger

3/14/2020 07:15:10 pm

I also agree with you of course about ballistic comparisons and comparing other evidence. It is amazing how these simple kinds of procedures fail to get compared with similar cases in other jurisdictions. Often it is years later that we hear, "The police were surprised to find a match between this evidence and evidence in another crime elsewhere" for example. Just look at how long it took to get comparisons between evidence for the Golden State Killer - a clear case in point if ever there was one!

Rubislaw 32 link

3/14/2020 05:17:00 pm

It is of interest , Richard , that you touch on the notion that the Zodiac might be responsible for murders ,like Oceanside 1962 , where there is no known correspondence reference to it .

I can only suggest that , once the Zodiac had murdered Darlene Ferrin , then he figuratively contracted himself to projection of fear , on the basis of electing to declare himself as a serial killer , by name (...a mass murderer...).

Thereafter , any victims that he could claim for , and get away with having claimed for , was all to the good of his reputation , as he saw himself . Hence , this '' 100 + '' ridiculous boast , as if we would believe that he really was '' into the swing of things now '' being the mass murderer that he set out to be , by reputation .

I believe with this letter , albeit a lie about the crime as belonging to him , he is coming from a '' happier '' place in his private life . Whereas , and on the basis of authenticity , the three 1978 letters see a Zodiac , unhappy in his private life , and simply clamouring to get back to being recognized , as a '' bad guy '' to re-dress his real unhappiness , at that 1978 time .

In 1986 , the Zodiac appears to have been a contented man .

Roger

3/14/2020 05:25:52 pm

Yes Rubislaw, it is very likely the Zodiac was sitting back this time, willing to claim responsibility for crimes that might look like his M.O. He read about this double shooting in the paper and was feeling like he was "famous" again due to Graysmith's book, so he thought he would put pen to paper again to re-ignite the old flames of speculation. He wanted to still be relevant in the minds of the public and let them know he was still out there. Hence his ridiculous boast of "100+ all across California and Nevada".

Rubislaw 32 link

3/14/2020 06:15:47 pm

I think that you are right , Roger , to suggest that this 1986 letter was , in part at least , motivated by Robert Graysmith's '' Zodiac '' book .

There always seems to be a reason behind his '' sporadic '' correspondences , after '' Bay area '' reign of terror . The Celebrity Cipher , I still believe , was motivated by the announcement of the Hardens getting a divorce , but have still to firm that one up .

So , 1986 was when the Zodiac started to realize that infamy in perpetuity might beckon ( ? ) .

January 2nd 2007 was the publication date for '' Zodiac Unmasked '' and , with Fincher's Hollywood film release following , secured that infamy , beyond the Zodiac's wildest dreams .

Roger

3/14/2020 07:07:08 pm

Oh yes, if he was still alive in 2007 he would have relished the appearance of a book and then a movie. Would he have been content to dismiss any inaccuracies as "par for the course" by that time, or would he have wished to set the record straight? If he was still alive, it would seem he was indeed content to allow any misinformation or fantasy elements to become part of the "popular memory" and thus adding perhaps to a sense of possessing a "legendary" status. All just wish fulfillment from someone with an unfillable ego. By that time he had probably become adept at re-writing the history, providing it portrayed him favorably as a more infamous villain than he actually was. So perhaps he felt he could start to claim ridiculous tallies like 100+ with total confidence - a man who was now content to relive his old fantasies with the help of books, movies, and old newspaper clippings.

3/14/2020 11:56:45 pm

Hi Richard,

The possible connection of this crime to Zodiac, while not certain, is definitely possible. I think what you’re missing is publicity. The Oceanside crime and its possible connection to Zodiac was widely publicized in newspapers and television.

You may want to share your insights with the crime writers at the Sacramento Bee, local tv stations in the greater Sacramento area or even Kevin Fagan at the Chronicle. If only one of them picks it up, then law enforcement may decide to pay it greater attention. Otherwise, this case maybe like the proverbial tree that fell in the forest.

Richard

3/15/2020 02:05:29 am

I have and nothing Mo. It is a case of who you are and not what you've found. If you remember the History Channel docudrama, they got interview time with many players irrespective of the fact they found nothing new, and even got into the vaults of Riverside PD. We could find the most earth shattering evidence in 50 years and I can guarantee you Mo, we would be ignored. Any response of "we will look into it" can be translated to "we've just thrown it in the bin".

Shawn

3/15/2020 05:51:05 am

If Zodiac was in the middle to upper range of Stine Wanted Poster....35 to 45. (40 to 45)

In 1986 Zodiac would be 57 to 62.

People aged quicker back then and Zodiac's writing might reflect this in the form of non-purposeful errors.

Like forgetting to put "weeks" in one sentence and adding later.

Plus starting off two lines in a row toward the end of th letter with scratched out words.

Although he has made such errors in the past. Seems to more prevalent in this rather short letter.

Richard

3/15/2020 06:25:21 am

Because of the three sets of eyewitnesses in a 5 minute period after the Paul Stine murder, all giving an estimate of about 40, or 35-45, I believe a generational divide existed between Zodiac and the "kids", "boys" and "girls" he described. If he was 40 in 1969, he was probably about 57 years in 1986, as per your lower estimate Shawn. Of course, the scratched out wording could have been deliberately engineered by a hoaxer to convince, but I certainly accept your point. If he was responsible for their murders (which is far from certain), he would now be choosing older victims in respect to his advancement in years.

Roger

3/15/2020 03:10:44 pm

Yes, he likely would have targeted older and/or more vulnerable witnesses. So an unsuspecting couple in a car, who were 10 years younger than him, would have been an easy target for such a killer. I doubt that the killer doubled as the "hitch-hiker" though. That would seem like a big risk to take for a man of 57-62 years of age. And wasn't the hitch-hiker described as a much younger man, or am I mistaken?

Richard

3/15/2020 05:21:26 pm

There is no published details whatsoever on the age of the hitchhiker. That would be of crucial importance. But remember this is how he was described by the Highway Patrol Officer, so unless he labelled himself as this, we cannot be sure of his purpose that day. A description of age and a composite would answer so many questions. It would also be useful to know the time of the reported "accident" by the hitchhiker and his exact wording when he reported it to the officer.

blue

3/15/2020 03:28:21 pm

The Ides of March. In 44bc. with only one year between 1ad. and 1bc.
that makes it 2063 years ago today JC was stabbed to death.

Corona virus is a true pandemic. It has killed more in the last 24 hours than the last 24 days. The spread is quickening. Until yesterday I thought it was no big deal. I was wrong. It is transmitted through the air. Stay home. Avoid anything public. For now it seems to be singling-out the elderly and smokers. I hope it's not a Bio weapon from China or something?

Darlene's hubby JC was born in 1944 - 24 days after the Ides of March. Did he patiently wait over a year after divorcing her to express his anger by killing her? Did he know that when-ever a woman is murdered it's usually the husband that did it? Is that why he waited? Was he jealous? Was he enraged to the point of murder over her infidelity? Did he want to kill her but also, not want to have to do time for it? Did Darlene marry a serial killer? This is a statement from Crabtree;
"First day of the military I’m told I’m special because of the stability and position of my family.(His Father was Diamond Phillips) I am offered work in the top secret field of cryptography, once I get through basic training. A secret clearance within a week… Top Secret before I’m out of basic. Then on to crypto school… none of your business where… just before graduation from the crypto school I am asked to join a very special group, which I accept and go on to the 16-week training leading to Pineville… you who know… know.. you who don’t… don’t… it doesn’t matter to this story…" (Does this not sound like it could be the Zodiac?) He joined at 17 years old in 1961. And was home from basic for two weeks before getting shipped out for a 16 week crypto training school. That would be half-a-year 26 weeks. He would get another couple weeks before having to report for duty at his new job. Did any of these times on leave allow him time to murder Ray Davis in April 1962?
JC says that he was in the Army's "Airborne Regiment". Size ten Wing-Walkers?

red

3/15/2020 03:51:16 pm

You could be right about the virus being airborne, but there is currently no evidence to support this. The virus has to be captured in the air in order to prove it is airborne and so far no scientist has captured the virus by this means in the wild state. So that alone would suggest it is not airborne in fine particle droplets, but only as large particle droplets. The only journal stating that the fine particle theory is "plausible" (while also unscrupulously headlining it as a "factoid") is livescience, along with its Facebook fear-mongering cohort Genesis Guide - the online home for pseudo-scientific conspiracy theorists.

blue

3/15/2020 04:20:52 pm

I'd rather everyone be home and safe - and angry with me - a fear-mongering conspiracy theorist. Than do what you are telling them to do - risk your life because some nut on the inter-web is wrongly telling you to avoid crowds because he does not have all the facts proven perfectly and therefor you should not listen to common sense. PS. I never said airborne except as it related to JC in the Army in 1961 and 1962.

red

3/15/2020 07:05:08 pm

Your exact words: "Corona virus is a true pandemic. It has killed more in the last 24 hours than the last 24 days. The spread is quickening. Until yesterday I thought it was no big deal. I was wrong. It is transmitted through the air. Stay home."

"Through the air" strongly suggests you mean airborne.

I would strongly suggest people should get their advice from reputable sources like the CDC instead of listen to online gossip, fear-mongering, and rumors. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html

Roger

3/15/2020 08:04:18 pm

I wonder, if Crabtree killed Darlene Ferrin, doesn't that kind of imply he must have been the Zodiac? Or were there many Zodiacs but only one who wrote letters confessing to them all?

It all gets very confusing.

3/16/2020 03:52:28 pm

I think we are supposed to be confused. That is why all the misleading codes and letters etc.To create a case of confusion you put the mind on information overload. It is easy to convolute anything by over-saturating the spectrum with too many contradictory notions. Jim was the best cryptologist that has ever been considered for the Zodiac. But,nobody wants to see him as capable of being the con man called the Zodiac. His brother Rick shot his brother Paul (not Stine). And, on May 24 1969 went with Jim’s friend Jay Eisen to the painting party at Dee's house. Paul/Jim/Rick are names in the top ten most likely to be considered for the Zodiac killer. Jim is smart enough to get others to do things for him. Everyone on a need to know basis. The Art of the Deal. AKA the lie. People are not good with the truth. They don't like it.They always choose the lie over the truth. A sucker is born every minute. And, Hitler used this razzle dazzle too - to get people sucked in. The bigger the lie - the more people will believe it. Facts are boring. People love lies. Grifters know this as their game. The con game. When a lie is told it takes time to get to the bottom of. The truth takes patience to uncover. By that time the lie has worked its magic. The high pressure salesman has to work fast. Shock and Awe works because as you overwhelm your opponent with - too much sound and fury - too fast for them to be able to make sense of that information - you confuse them to the point of giving up. And, when they can't make heads nor tales of things they start getting disoriented.Now you can control them - as long as you keep them baffled. The unsolvable puzzles help do the job nicely continuously baffling the investigator. They work on autopilot...continuous.

blue

3/15/2020 08:47:45 pm

You seem to be asking for further explanation.
So I'll try.
There are three basic states of matter Liquids/Gases/and Solids
Droplets are a liquid.
Air is a gas.
It seems to spread through the action of a cough or sneeze in the form of droplets.The virus is not airborne.
It is in the droplets.
A sneeze may propel liquid in the form of minute droplets.
The transmission is when the droplets are manually picked up
through the touching of those surfaces - and or the introduction
into the body more directly. If the filtration system is not equipt
with a HEPA filter the air conditioning system may act as a
means of transmission. That is why they are recommending that
people stay home - it is not yet fully understood. And of-course verify every thing on your own - ask a medical professional. Fear-monger out.

red

3/15/2020 10:54:07 pm

Yet you were the one who expressly stated that it is transmitted through the air. Now you make it seem as though I am the one who does not know what air or water is. Sheesh! As I have already said, best advice is to check the official sources of information instead of relying on a comment posted on Richard's Zodiac blog page.

3/18/2020 05:44:58 pm

"So… I reenlisted for six years and promptly went AWOL for six months and one day… qualifying me for the top prize… deserter."

James Phillips
Expert Cryptographer
Born in Los Angeles
DOB April 8 1944
I.Q.138

This was the reason for his going to the stockade in the Presidio 1965
He said he did it because he wanted to expose the Army's evil ways.
It did not work - after he starved himself for 22 days - they gave him back his discharge - and let him out on the streets. It made him yet even more angry. Privy to Army secrets but labeled a mental case.

Roger

3/18/2020 06:52:09 pm

I wonder if he would have been able to get back into the Presidio using an old pass or if he knew a "backdoor"? I've often wondered if the Zodiac killer escaped by re-entering the Presidio unknown to the security personnel at the time, or if he was using a fake ID and passed himself off as someone else who may have looked similar? I am sure the cops checked all of the staff who had signed in and out that day and night and the following day, but could he have found a way through the perimeter undetected? I have heard rumors of personnel absconding from the Presidio for a few hours during the night and "not being missed", but I wonder how true these stories are, particularly during the Vietnam War period.

3/19/2020 11:48:15 am

This could be the girl that Darlene witnessed "him" kill.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-murder-of-diane-gerrish

1965 Jim spends 6 months in The Presidio Stockade. His timeline is shady.

He says he only did 4 months and was released when he meet Dee on Larkin st. Aug. 1965

Jim’s Father was D.B. Phillips - rode a motorcycle for 20 years for the CHP.

Diamond-Bell Phillips died April 30 1968. Days after his adopted son James turned 24 years old.

"spent years in the hospital due to injuries inflicted upon him by his service."

James D.C. Phillips was a real big comic book collector and reader.
D.B. Cooper was actually a comic book superhero daredevil skydiver named Dan Cooper.
Could the D.B. actually be a nod to his real hero D.B. Phillips?
And, could Jim have used any of Diamond's vast array of connections to stay out of Prison?
There's a separate legal system for the well connected than the rest of us.

3/21/2020 07:12:25 pm

Richard

I must ask - if Horan wanted to prove his theory. Wouldn't he only need to de-link any of the cannon killings from the rest of the case. As the Hartnell door linked LB to the previous crimes and the swatch linked the letter writer to Stine. By proving that a perp was actually convicted for any one of the Zodiac cases. The whole case of a single Zodiac killer would fall apart. If he could show that any-one of the big four is not linked. The whole thing would have to be a hoax would it not? The Chronicle would be in big trouble if that were the case. A conspiracy to sell more newspapers by the use of yellow journalism aka fake news.

Richard

3/22/2020 01:57:48 am

The problem is he cannot de-link any. As Roger says, the claims of a secondary person surreptitiously stealing a bit of Stine's shirt in the ambulance or morgue is just speculation - and his blood on the shirt analysis about coagulation is flawed. Just ask somebody experienced in the scientific community. The fingerprints tested between crime scenes that didn't match is not evidence the crimes are not linked, just that we cannot confirm they are the Zodiac's. His claims that the descriptions of the killer don't match between crimes is debatable. He claims the 25-30 description by the teenagers doesn't match Donald Fouke's, but the teenagers have never stated the suspect was 25-30 - this was attributed to the sketch by police. He claims that the Washington & Maple attribution on the Stine letter is somehow evidence the letter writer wasn't the killer and didn't know the area very well. The October 12th Chronicle article gave us the location of the cab as Washington & Cherry. Any hoaxer could have just copied this, but it is rather telling that nobody (other than police) knew that Washington & Maple was on the trip sheet, yet Zodiac wrote Washington & Maple on October 13th. The good thing from a Thomas Horan perspective, is everybody loves a good old conspiracy theory rather than plain old boring facts. But virtually everything he presents can be countered. Just presenting an alternative is not evidence of an alternative, or that the alternative is correct - and using the tired argument of everybody else has just bought into the Graysmith narrative of one killer, is disingenuous and untrue. The biggest hoax of them all, may be Horan creating a hoax.

Roger

3/21/2020 08:14:24 pm

I'm not sure what Richard will have to say BB, but all I can suggest is the Horan theory seems to fall apart when we consider the attacker only wrote about things the killer and the police would know relating to the Lake Herman Road crime scene. Horan of course counters this by claiming a cop (Snook or some other old army buddy of Graysmith's perhaps?) who had this inside knowledge was "in on it" too. And when it comes to Stine he has to invent an elaborate plot involving all and sundry stealing bits of bloodied shirt from Stine's body from the morgue or while he is being carted off in the ambulance. It all begins to sound like an episode from "Ripley's Believe it or Not!"

I suspect by the end of this whole Horan investigation, we will have to consider dozens, if not hundreds of people, to account for every possibility, shortcoming, or pothole in what will become an ever enlarging conspiracy.

Richard

3/22/2020 02:04:51 am

Only the killer and Medeiros knew Betty Lou Jensen was on her right side. But if the killer states only things he and the police know, the usual get out clause, is the killer was a copper or read the police report. Anybody can play that game. He claimed that in the Black Box video about the "I did not leave the cene of the killing with squealling tires + raceing engine as described in the Vallejo paper". He claimed this information had to have been taken from the police report when it was in the July 6th Vallejo paper.

THE MURDERS GAINING DUST

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