THE MESSAGE WITHIN THE FAIRFIELD LETTER

2/21/2018

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'Rubislaw,' a regular contributor to this site, inspired me to take another look at the Fairfield letter, mailed on December 16th 1969. The correspondence stated "This is the Zodiac speaking. I just want to tell you this state is in trouble..I will go for the Goverment life, so don't foreget me. I will kill more people than you cops can count, so look for more blood. You better print". The author then added the trademark crosshairs with a small code. The crosshairs had the same symbol in each of the four quadrants, with five symbols to its left. Decoding such a small sample could never be authenticated, however, an attempt will be made later in this article.

The author attached a drawing of blood dripping from a knife, entitled "The Bleeding Knife of Zodiac". Zodiac had previously claimed seven victims in the Bus Bomb letter mailed to the San Francisco Chronicle on November 9th 1969, so it wasn't surprising to see this knife drawing had 7 drops of blood falling from the blade. See here. It is extremely difficult to pinpoint the inspiration for this letter, but here are a few notable events in December 1969.

The first being the murder of Meredith Hunter at the Altamont Free Concert on December 6th 1969 at the hands of Hells Angel Alan Passaro, who fatally stabbed and beat the 18-year-old to death after he produced a revolver. This is not insinuating Alan Passaro was the Zodiac Killer, but bearing in mind the Hells Angels connection on Warren Avenue, Vallejo, and the drugs bust at The Cottage on Lake Herman Road in the run-up to the murders of David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen, it was worth mentioning. Alan Passaro was later cleared of the murder having deemed to have acted in self defense.

On the political front, bearing in mind the author was threatening to go for 'government life,' was the author referencing the troubles of the day. On December 1st 1969 the Selective Service System of the United States conducted two lotteries to determine the order of call to military service in the Vietnam War for men born from 1944 to 1950. These lotteries occurred during a period of conscription from just before World War II to 1973. It was the first time a lottery system had been used to select men for military service since 1942. The lottery numbers assigned in December 1969 were used during calendar year 1970 both to call for induction and to call for physical examination, a preliminary call covering more men. Taken from Wikipedia. For those believing in a Vietnam or military connection to Zodiac, was he responding with outrage to this lottery based conscription- threatening to attack 'government life'.

On December 12th 1969, the Desert Sun ran an article about 'Two Attorneys Jailed in Tate Murder Case.'
District Judge David Brown today sentenced two Los Angeles lawyers to 72 hours in jail and fined them $lOO each for trying to make a “press spectacular” out of the case of Charles D. Watson, charged in the Sharon Tate murders. "I am fining you $lOO and jailing you for 72 hours but I will suspend this provided you take the next plane back to California and shut your mouths,” Brown told the attorneys, Perry Walshin and David DeLoach. “I admonish you for making a circus out of my courtroom,” said the judge. Watson, dressed in green work clothes, made his first public appearance since he gave himself up Nov. 30 in I answer to a California murder I warrant. He since has been indicted on seven counts of murder and one count of conspiracy. Susan Denise Atkins, another, of a hippie band charged in the California murders, told a grand jury Watson was the one who killed Miss Tate with a knife. “Do you want to talk to these men or be represented by them" Judge Brown asked Watson today about the two California lawyers. “No, sir, I do not,” Watson said. “Do you want to see them” Brown asked. “No, I do not,” Watson replied. At least 30 Texas highway 1 patrolmen guarded Watson. At least 20 patrolmen and sheriffs deputies were in the courtroom. Watson, who grew up at nearby Copeville, Tex., was moved into the courtroom before 6:30 a. m. and no reporters or photographers were allowed near him. Leaving the courtroom, officers threw a coat over Watson’s head and hustled him past photographers. Walshin and DeLoach came to Texas last week. Walshin said he had represented Watson on the coast and that Watson’s mother wanted him in the case. link.

This article was published four days before the Fairfield letter and eight days before Zodiac's letter to attorney Melvin Belli.
Was the Fairfield letter actually written by somebody connected with the Manson Family, or an avid follower of the unfolding events? Tex Watson would ultimately be convicted of the seven counts of first degree murder he was charged with. These are three unlikely examples of a possible inspiration for the Fairfield letter. Please post any further ideas in comments.

The final observation is regarding the code. The Zodiac Killer mailed the 'Halloween' card on October 27th 1970. Was the Fairfield letter (if a Zodiac correspondence) the precursor to this card in rudimentary form. The Fairfield letter had four identical symbols in the four quadrants of the crosshairs. The 'Halloween' card contained four methods of death in the four quadrants, bisected by Paradice and Slaves - not dissimilar to the Fairfield letter. Tahoe27 discovered a connection between a Tim Holt comic and the 'Halloween' card regarding the wording By Fire, By Gun, By Rope and By Knife. Is it possible the Fairfield letter symbols around the crosshairs represented these four methods of death? But what of the five symbols to the left. Take a look at the Tim Holt picture above.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/21/2018 04:03:12 pm

Based on Zodiac's ''340'' key code,I have the solution to Z5 as ''CAKIK'.

This would be on the basis that Zodiac,hadn't had time,to think up a new key code,between November 9th and December 16th 1969.

Of course I state this,at the risk of being figuratively mugged by Howard [!].

Funnily enough,Howard,if you are reading,I found your comments inspiring,for the purpose of interpretation.

''CAKIK'' would appear to stand for ''California Kick''.

But,it could be another ''Zodiac play'',and double up,as ''Cack kick''.

That,in effect,Zodiac is revelling in his ''shit kicking'' antics [?].

By that same key code,the four decorative zodiac symbols,stand for ''A''.In effect,''A,A,A,A''.

Like Zodiac's ''venomous and vitriolic'' Z38,we might be looking at another dig at ''presumed'' William Joseph Grant [?].

Mr.Grant was a long time member of,and esteemed speaker for,Alcoholics Anonymous.....''AA''.

So,possibly Zodiac in celebration of giving Mr.Grant,a hard time for being a ''lush''....with ''evidence'' in the Benicia High School note,that ''Zodiac'' refers to Mr.Grant as a ''queer''.

Confused ?

Don't shoot me - I'm only the piano player.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/22/2018 03:35:21 am

Good to see that Fairfield letter shown,Richard.

My intention is not ''to'' confuse.

The essence of my inference is,that Zodiac found himself,and to an extent out of choice,fighting his war,on two fronts.

The ''establishment'',which upped the ''personal tariff'' for him,and....his original ''campaign'',which was a personal vendetta,with a certain Mr.Grant.

Hence,the possibility of seeing evidence of this ''below the surface'',and above,in some of the correspondences.

The ''Grant vendetta'' is not a new theory,as such.More the case,that it as been forgotten about,by most,apart from the authorities,themselves.....and of course,frustratingly,since 1971,they were not able to go near,much less speak to,Mr.Grant.himself.

in 2012,Mr.Grant went to his grave,with his secrets.

Back to the letter....

It appears of interest,all these numbers that ''Zodiac'' posts,in his list of intended ''kills'' [?].

I am looking at the possibility that those numbers constitute a numerical code,of some sort.

It does seem strange that ''Zodiac'' should produce a sort of ''shopping list'',in effect [?].

Richard

2/22/2018 04:46:32 am

A 'shopping list' that he nearly claimed in the Exorcist letter 4 years later. I'm still torn on the letter's validity, but it deserves to be looked at until comprehensively dismissed. The writing of 'knife' in similar fashion to the Bryan Hartnell car door, bearing in mind this information hadn't been released to the public could be argued to its validity, although a hoaxer using the word knife in regards to the Berryessa stabbings could equally be argued. I don't know about any vendetta with Grant, but if this correspondence was the Zodiac Killer, then it would be unlikely that he could separate himself from the politics of the day, which was very turbulent around the late 60s and early 70s. The Fairfield letter is rarely discussed and for the large part dismissed as Zodiac material. We also have to consider why the Zodiac would choose to not send a piece of Paul Stine's shirt with this correspondence as well as the Belli letter. He had shirt pieces over, and could have removed the question of its validity, but chose not to. Either he wasn't Zodiac or he had alternate reasons. Placing the Bus Bomb letter and 340 cipher as a pairing because they were virtually mailed at the identical time, since the Stine murder he effectively sent a shirt piece with every correspondence (3 in a row) but not the Fairfield letter. I'm about 50/50 on this.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/22/2018 07:28:00 am

Entirely valid reasons for scepticism,on your part,Richard.

50/50 from someone with your experience,sounds quite ''glowing'' [!].

I go about 80/20.It certainly would be of interest,if L.E.were to give specific reasons why they were unable to authenticate the Fairfield letter.

Indeed,it could be construed as a mystery why Zodiac would not have added a piece of Stine's shirt,at that time,for ''credulity'' purposes.

There is,of course,the matter of the two ''Day-to-day'' forecasts,from Sacramento,five days before the Fairfield letter....and they didn't ''earn'' authentication,from the authorities,either.

Yes,the ''Grant vendetta'' theory had been on the table,early on,and when Zodiac was still ''plying'' his terror through correspondence.

But local police blew chances of persuading Grant to open up.A successful harassment injunction,and L.E. could never touch him again.

Lyndon Lafferty,effectively,came to the conclusion that Zodiac and Grant were the same person.I believe L.E. have always known that they weren't.But,to what extent there was a vendetta going on,and to what extent,it was more a case of Zodiac impersonating Grant,when it suited him,remains a mystery in the public domain.

John

2/22/2018 07:43:28 am

There is another Tim Holt comic that might have inspired the Zodiac, and that is the October 1952 issue called "Terror in the Iron Mask". In that issue Tim Holt faces off against a villain that's wearing an iron mask. I always thought that issue inspired Zodiac's Lake Berryessa's outfit. Oddly enough in that issue the Iron Mask man tries to kill Tim Holt by hanging him...Zodiac used precut lengths plastic clothesline in the LB attack as well.

Zodiac was indeed a comic book fanatic, and most likely was inspired by them.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/22/2018 08:26:08 am

I agree John....and the Tim Holt comics,in particular....which carried Red Ryder and Little Beaver....and of course,now known for The Wheel of Death,in relation to the Halloween Card,spotted by Tahoe 27.

I read about a character called : ''The man of many faces'',and couldn't help thinking that he would have influenced Zodiac.In this one episode,he was caught by someone spotting that he kept changing his handwriting,from use of left to right hands.

Naturally,he ultimately evaded justice,so that he was able to re-offend,in the next instalment.

John

2/22/2018 08:32:41 am

Indeed Rubislaw, Tim Holt ran from 1948 to 1954. If Zodiac grew up reading Tim Holt, that would give him a D.O.B starting from late 1930s to early 1940s. Another clue to the puzzle...

Rubislaw 32 link

2/22/2018 09:15:02 am

Yes John,I have Zodiac down as a ''war baby'',born 1944.

What is quite strange,perhaps,about ''The man of many faces'' is,that though he was committing crimes in the Southern Mid-West....he was actually from France,with ''real'' name ascertained as Anton La Vey.

Now,where have we heard that name,before ?

John

2/22/2018 09:28:57 am

I as well believe Zodiac was interest in the occult, and maybe a member of the Church of Satan. On a side note: Years ago I was in a used book store and was looking at the books in the occult section. I came across some 1970s books called "The Dennis Wheatley Library of the occult." As I was looking at the covers some symbols found there reminded me of something-- I had seen them before, but I didn't know where. As I was driving back home it hit me-- some of those symbols were found in the Zodiac ciphers. You can google it and see for yourself.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/22/2018 11:54:19 am

Thanks...I'll check it out.

Dennis Wheatley was ''huge'' for occult pulp fiction,and ''B grade'' movies,at the time of Zodiac.''To the devil,a daughter'',the most successful,I believe.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/22/2018 02:06:28 pm

Incidentally Richard,in your illustration,that at least,suggested of a possible connection,between the front of the Dripping Pen card,and the illustration of the ''Bleeding Knife''.....and,apart from the illustrated drips on both....

I had noted the possible ''clever'' link of ''pen'' to ''knife''...as in ''penknife''.

I subsequently checked out ''Mini-subs'' in operation,with navies,at that time....in considering the likeness of the pen,to a mini-sub.

The only mini-sub,that I could find that did ''not'' have a turret...like the pen,was called the ''Sea Dagger''.

A coincidence,perhaps [?].

In addition,it got me thinking about the knife,that Zodiac ''probably'' used to cut away a shirt swatch from Paul Stine.

Perhaps this was a ''penknife'' ?

More particularly,a knife with a retractable blade [?].Like a ''Flick'',fo instance [?].

With all those ''little things'' that Zodiac was going to have to take with him,in absconding from the Stine crime scene,where would he keep a knife,with scabbard,apart from strapped to an ankle [?].

A penknife of some description,appears to be the solution [?].

Richard

2/22/2018 02:34:25 pm

Without doubt, if Zodiac had used a knife to cut Stine's shirt, a penknife is a logical choice, marrying the "dripping pen" and "bleeding knife" and the two shirt pieces subsequently mailed, one only four days after the Fairfield letter. Mini-subs or 'yellow submarine' and blue meannies. It all could be coincidence (as below) but the Fairfield letter deserves a run out, as does the understated Dragon card.

Richard

2/22/2018 02:22:32 pm

On October 22nd 1969 the Oakland Police Department took a call in the early morning hours from somebody claiming to be the Zodiac, requesting that either Melvin Belli or Francis Lee Bailey, high profile lawyers at the time, appear on a chat show hosted by Jim Dunbar later that day. Melvin Belli agreed to appear on the show to which a man would eventually contact via telephone, claiming not only his name was 'Sam', but also by inference that he was the infamous Zodiac Killer.

The Rolling Stones management attempted to locate a site for a free concert. They consulted Jan Wenner, the editor of Rolling Stone, who sent them to several professional concert promoters, who put them in contact with famed San Francisco attorney Melvin Belli, fixture of California's well-heeled "conservative" power base. The result was the Altamont Free Concert on December 6th 1969 and the stabbing of Meredith Hunter.

October 16th 1969-The Fairfield letter was mailed- dripping blood.
December 20th 1969-The bloodied shirt was mailed to Melvin Belli.

In the wake of Zodiac bomb threats, beginning on November 9th 1969, The Dragon card was mailed to the San Francisco Chronicle on April 28th 1970, stating "If you dont want me to have this blast you must do two things. Tell everyone about the bus bomb with all the details. I would like to see some nice Zodiac buttons wandering about town. Everyone else has these buttons like, black power, melvin eats bluber, etc. Well it would cheer me up considerably if I saw a lot of people wearing my buton. Please no nasty ones like melvin's. Thank you."

The reference to "melvin eats bluber" is based on the creation of buttons in the mid to late 60's by Irwin Weisfeld, in the form of a counter culture expressionism. The actual pin button says 'Melville Eats Blubber', which is in fact referring to Herman Melville, the creator of Moby Dick published in 1851.

Ironically, the inspiration for the Zodiac bomb threat campaign may have been Samuel Joseph Grossman, who bombed eight New York targets in 1969- July 27th, August 20th, September 19th, October 7th (before Zodiac's Bus Bomb letter) and three attacks on November 11th and one on November 12th.

Samuel Joseph Grossman was better known as "Sam" Melville, a name borrowed from author Herman Melville. What an interesting sequence of events. "Sam" the fake caller to Belli, the bombing threat campaign by Zodiac, "Melville eats blubber" and "Sam Melville.

Herman Melville, creator of Moby Dick was an avid fan of Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, author of Don Quixote, featured on the Dragon card.
Sam Melville had met and become romantically involved with Jane Alpert, a recent graduate from Swarthmore College, while she was enrolled in a graduate program in journalism at Columbia University. The pair were also close with Pat Swinton and Dave Hughey who assisted them with several bombings. Other members of their group were never identified. Melville and Alpert became increasingly involved with the Weather Underground and the Black Panther Party. Zodiac also mentioned black power in the Dragon card.

Ray Jenkins

2/23/2018 05:43:05 pm

Wow, this reads like a cornucopia of Zynchronicity!

Rubislaw 32 link

2/22/2018 03:50:26 pm

Fascinating stuff,Richard.....and,if it tells us anything,from a generalised viewpoint....I would suggest that it tells us that Zodiac was ''always'' looking at new and ''en vogue'' ways of terrorising [?].

Even if Zodiac realised his ''unrealistic'' chances of becoming a bomb maker....at least he could make it all up.....and provided his threats appeared convincing....then a further form of terror,was achieved.

Naturally,I noted that Zodiac had referred to Black power...but it appears that his reference is limited.

Of course,and as I have referred to,before....Black power has quite a mention in my solution to the ''340''.

Actual references to Herb Caen's opinion to the double assassination,at UCLA,in January 1969.LA strikes,as a demonstration against Hoover's solution on Black power.

Then,subliminally,on the vertical columns of the solution,three different references to Claude Hubert [assassin],and one reference to J Edgar Hoover [Cid,the master].

It really doesn't bother me,what others think....but I'd be interested to know what others might think I laid my hands on to make all fit together [?] [LOL].

Apart from other references to Darlene Ferrin,and a joke about ''Oak Island'',the ''340'' solution,I would suggest,fills in that ''Black power'' jig-saw piece.

In time,it will all come out in the wash....so,what the heck.....chuckle,chuckle....

Judith N Chapman

2/23/2018 07:15:16 am

Yes. I am very amazed at the time and energy you put into these posts Richard your website is almost overwhelming. But keep it very simple because it's all there including the ciphers look for The Simple Solution. WHEN- yes this post addresses the Times. What was going down in the Bay Area during the late 1960s early 1970s was very heavy, very political. And of course my suspect was at Alta Mont that day. He would recount the day many times. Sort of like a macabre Forrest Gump he was there. He also knew Hells Angels road with the Hell's Angels I met officers of the Hell's Angels through my marriage to him. sort of like the song by The Rolling Stones Sympathy for the Devil, he was there. Yes about the draft for the Vietnam War. Yes yes yes. pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name, but what's puzzling you is the nature of my game. Get down.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/23/2018 03:52:29 pm

Some interesting recollections,Judith.

And,great value,for an insight.

In the U.K.,London was swinging...but the closest thing to a California experience,was a caravan holiday in Newquay,Cornwall.

My ''Zodiac'' song,is ''Green Manalishi with the two pronged crown'',by Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac.

They took over a mill,at the bottom of our hill,in Hampshire.

I never saw them once.

''When the day goes to sleep,and the full moon looks....''.

Ray Jenkins

2/23/2018 05:34:22 pm

Groan, another tiny cipher written by someone who probably was not even the Zodiac, and so highly variable that it could say just about anything at all.

Any so-called "solutions" will reflect more about the mind, personality, background and biases of the respective "solvers" than anything about the actual author (whoever he or she may have been), or the Zodiac. Such solutions generally depend on how far one can kick it, in the general direction of the waste paper bin.

So count me out on any further wild and rampant Zodiac and cipher speculations.

About all I have to offer is I seem to recall coming across a Manson doodle somewhere, which was very similar to the Zodiac symbol with four extra stars in each quadrant. Or was it one of Rader's doodles? I forget now, which probably shows how little time I have wasted on speculation about this letter. :-)

Judith N Chapman

2/23/2018 09:50:13 pm

This is my fear if they ever do solve the 340 it will say something like drink your Ovaltine and everyone will feel like a bunch of big suckers once again

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 03:25:15 pm

LOL! Yes exactly. I am inclined to think the solution, if any, will be banal and uninspired. However, I do wonder if he may have deliberately increased the variability to an extreme level on purpose, so that people could make it mean whatever they want it to mean, thereby making him seem a lot smarter and "intellectual" than he actually was (?). Either way, the joke does seem to be on us.

Richard

2/25/2018 03:24:26 am

Yes, it will probably read just like the 408- coherent rambling.

Shawn

2/25/2018 07:00:52 am

Perception is a matter of Perspective.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/24/2018 04:26:47 am

No worries on that score,Judith....the solution is already in the bag.

And proved to be,arguably,Zodiac's finest achievement.

This was a discourse of mature social observation,and delivered with wit.

The ''408'' was more a poor impersonation of Vincent Price.

Even hidden little gems,like ''Sci Son''....science son,with the Patron Saint of Sciences,being St.Hubert...hence,assassin Claude Hubert.

Zodiac poured ''lovingly'' over this solution.He was desperate to be taken seriously,and feel that he could spiritually rub shoulders with the admired newspaper columnists.

But,the ''idiot'' made it too difficult to solve,in his anticipated time frame.

48 years later,it's done and dusted,and ''Mr.Olsen'' knows this only too well.

Next week,marks a third anniversary,and the ''gloves will be off''.

L.E. know this.

Because I have told them.

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 03:30:57 pm

You being the foremost and unchallenged expert on Zodiac cryptography and all. Yesterday when I walked into an FBI office, I soon discovered that the mere mention of your name caused great excitement to the point that several secretaries swooned and several senior officers even passed out at my feet. One officer had a framed copy of your 340 solution on his wall beside your portrait and could not stop himself from waxing lyrical as to its sheer brilliance. So hallowed was your name, I felt awe-struck by the time of my departure.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/24/2018 04:53:54 pm

Well,good for you,Ray.

I wonder why you might have thought it an informative reason to walk in to an FBI office [?].

That certainly isn't where anything,apart from cryptanalysis,is happening,in the Zodiac case.

I know this,because I have to pass any information on to the judiciary bodies,that do have involvement,through the regular cops,that are seconded to these judiciary cold case units.

The real action is behind closed doors.

As jaundiced,and misinformed,as the day is long,it would appear [?].

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 05:39:14 pm

Okay, I will go into the other judiciary bodies, behind the closed doors, and can clearly expect the same reaction.

Judith N Chapman

2/24/2018 07:44:30 am

I would love to see the solution. The computer Carmel appears to be a big let-down on that account. Does the Zodiac Killer give us any clues to what his name is in the solution?

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 04:19:15 pm

I would have to acknowledge that Rubislaw's solution is light years ahead of the "Caramelized Carmel" output. But it is still ultimately not a valid solution, because it reflects more about Rubislaw's own personality, education, background and experience than it does about Zodiac. This is plain to see for anyone who has eyes and can read. He cannot be convinced otherwise, which is not unusual when people firmly believe they are correct about something in the sheer absence of any ability to prove otherwise, regardless of the weight of variability swinging the other direction and tearing their solution apart and to shreds. The 408 has but one solution. The 340 is either not a valid cipher or it was deliberately designed to allow for multiple solutions, or it has a very simple solution that is hidden in plain sight. Sadly, the latter will remain unknown in the absence of the Zodiac's original solution. And so the variability demands that there can be no single solution to this cipher. Perhaps one day somebody will find the Zodiac's original key, hidden in an attic or basement somewhere, and the real solution will surprise us all. Still, there will be those who refuse to believe it, and many will still consider their own solutions sacrosanct. It is like convincing a Christian there is no God - impossible! In the absence of proof no proof is required. Just belief. Such is life in Zodiac land.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/24/2018 08:02:25 am

Yes Judith,it can be viewed at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net

My advise to you,would be to cut through all the technical stuff,and view it,on the very last post,of the thread.

There,I've displayed it,in the form before Zodiac elected to take out a pair of scissors and a proverbial sledgehammer,for use on a dining room table,or similar.

But,really this is not just about the ''340'' solution,and how I put ''Humpty Dumpty'' back together,again.

This goes back to December 2014,when I embarrassed NCIS Washington,causing an ''under the table'' security breach exposure.

This ''lot'' never really ''get it''.It's about working around the clock,to bring this monster to justice,and answer to the bereaved of victims,and the rest of us.

''9 to 5's'',holidays,benefits,and pension plans....is all very well,but it is not focusing on whom they are supposed to serve.

Their most important customer....A member of the public.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/24/2018 08:18:02 am

....sorry,your last question,Judith.

No,Zodiac doesn't leave his name in the ''340'' cipher solution.

But,I personally believe that he does leave his name,by inference,in the riddle solution to the 1988 New Canaan letter cipher [Z263].

And,that Zodiac leaves an anagram of his legal surname,in the solution to the 1990 Celebrity Cypher.

Perhaps,Zodiac was becoming ''braver'',as he got older [?].

Naturally,the two above named correspondences are ''unconfirmed''.

Drew

2/24/2018 10:19:43 am

Hi all, I have some wild and rampant speculations mostly just to annoy Ray!

I've been torn on the authenticity of this letter. If it was Zodiac it is uncertain why he wouldn't have included a piece of the shirt or mention the phrase 'by knife', why the drawn symbols seem of poorer quality than his other ciphers, why he did not write a 'kill count' number as he had in letters sent immediately before and after.

One reason I have always tried to find ways to believe in it is because the POI I have spent the most time on worked at the Fairfield newspaper as well as the Albany Times while married to a Zodiac victim in 1966.

The four symbol approach to the Zodiac sign anticipates the Halloween card, which my bias would like to attribute to the (probably fictional) 4Pi cult that was associated with a scary organization from England who were in SF called The Process Church of Final Judgement who were affiliated with the not scary 'cult' called the Diggers (who my POI was a member of). With my fairly ridiculous Phillips 66 bias aside I think there are a few somewhat legitimate elements that make this an interesting one to consider.

Because the 'by knife' item and most of the bus bomb letter had not been publicly released the author of this possible hoax deserves full credit for the trademark curly lower case f, and because this Fairfield letter wasn't published its claim of 38 victims works nicely as an anticipation of the later Exorcist letter's claim of 37 victims (plus the threat of doing something nasty if not published). The Hartnell door and previously published dripping pen card both utilized a similar form of list making, and the future published Exorcist also uses an elongated postscript composition.

As far as the 5 symbol code (+ four symbols around the Zodiac) and the structure of the correspondence itself there are parallels within the Zodiac's oeuvre (couldn't think of a better word). The My Name Is and bus bomb codes were impossibly short like this one and had not been published at this time, so it did anticipate this new strategy.

Because there are kind of 6 symbols and then the big Zodiac sign it could be as uncreative and pointless as spelling out ZODIAC. Without using multiple substitution methods (like that cheater Richard!) it could spell a name like Steve or Ronan or Gerard but it makes little sense to have a name there. I mention the Steve one because Gian Quasar's suspect is a guy named Steve who was from Kansas and if you read the victim numbers vertically top down they form a 316 Kansas phone number. Another Kansas creep BTK apparently left ridiculous clues like his full address in his ciphers.

I considered that hoaxer or not the author may have used the Harden 408 key, but all you get is YINHN and D for the Zodiac symbol. I tried shifting around the pattern as if on a wheel but failed to come up with anything. Based on a 5 letter word with 3 and 5 the same the best I came up with was JESUS (in keeping with the religious motif) or EVILI (in keeping with the also prevalent creepy nonsense motif).

In conclusion, I am still below 50/50 on this letter and even if it was Zodiac I think a gibberish code with the two repeating symbols included simply to make it appear solvable is the most logical explanation. If it was Zodiac writing just under a month after they refused to print his bomb threat I find it dubious that he didn't mention bombing or explosives or an angry message about being ignored.

Well I hope that diatribe wasn't a complete waste of everyone other than Ray's time (just kidding Ray!). Thanks everyone!

Rubislaw 32 link

2/24/2018 12:02:26 pm

Perfectly well thought out,Drew...and who is to deny you your own opinion.

What is refreshing to me is,that you keep it ''light'',and express yourself,in a constructive way.

Drew

2/24/2018 12:16:53 pm

Thanks so much Rubislaw, I appreciate the kind words! It is nice that you are putting your theories out there and encouraging dialogues such as this. There are so many variables to consider when trying to authenticate these letters from such a distance that it really does demand time and patience and inevitably throwing a whole whack of spaghetti theory at the proverbial wall to see if anything sticks.

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 03:46:09 pm

I am glad you say Diggers were not a scary 'cult'. As for the Diggers being affiliated with The Process Church of Final Judgement, I can only suggest this must have been a very loose affiliation at best, and much of the current online discussion seems to be in the domain of conspiracy theorists today. Most left-wing folkies tended to be rather group-oriented and Marxist in orientation and therefore, by default, non-religious. Religion is about ego and control and power, which were polar opposites of the Digger philosophy. Still, the 60s were a confusing time, and religious nutters of all persuasions did try to infiltrate many groups. Drugs played a big part in making people confused and also confusing people. Manson was eclectic, but he only pick and chose from religions what suited himself. I guess the same could be said for some of the other egotistical "players" back then. Whether the Zodiac had anything to do with any of these groupies or cults is anybody's guess. Why feeling is Zodiac would have been alone wolf who was rather sneering of the lot of them. He would have seen himself and his own beliefs as being superior to all others around him.

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 03:48:30 pm

correction: My feeling is Zodiac would have been a lone wolf who was rather sneering of the lot of them. He would have seen himself and his own beliefs as being superior to all others around him.

Judith N Chapman

2/24/2018 11:48:59 am

Not too sure about this letter the printing looks off. It's a little simplistic but I like the idea of the symbols spelling out the word DEATH. Have you tried to use those symbols now to decipher any of the other codes? what is your opinions of the solution to the 340 in GraySmith's book? We cannot discount anagramming simply because some folks don't like it. Anyone who ever read the San Francisco Chronicle can tell you that Herb Cain's column was on a fun page or section of the newspaper which included always the word game Jumble which was anagramming. My suspect hated Herb Cain he called him Herbie kike, he hated Melvin belli whenever he came on our local news for some reason, he hated Daryl Gates the chief of LAPD just hated them. Called them every filthy name in the book.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/24/2018 12:20:25 pm

Granted your questions here,are directed at Richard,Judith [?].

But,very interested to hear about your suspect's attitudes to individuals.

All things considered,and admittedly my opinion is,that Zodiac did indeed hate Daryl Gates.History does tend to suggest that Mr.Gates was the facilitator for Hoover's ''solution'' to Black power.

I sense that Belli ''interested'' Zodiac.Zodiac must have seen through Belli's ''bluster'' and weakness for celebrity life.But,realised that if he [Zodiac] was to be exposed,then Belli could have his ''uses''.

Here is where we might differ [?].I believe that Zodiac adored and worshipped Herb Caen.Caen was like ''God'' to Zodiac,and wishes he could have been him.

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 04:04:57 pm

I think just the opposite. I think Zodiac adored Belli to the point of seeking personal court with him. He feared that one day he might get caught and hoped that Belli would be there for him, to be his ultimate defense in court, and thus turning the whole trial into a huge media circus. And at his heart and core a hardy Freemason!

As for Herb Caen. Meh!

Black power? Not even remotely of interest to the Zodiac. He probably saw it as little more than an annoyance issue, taking media attention away from himself, but the idea of a black suspect perhaps became helpful to him at one point due to a police blunder, thus allowing him to escape! So maybe he was mildly grateful in a way. Or more likely, he just considered luck was once again on his side.

Drew

2/24/2018 05:16:52 pm

Zodiac may have contacted Belli to distinguish himself from "Sam" the caller who brought Belli into the story on the Dunbar show and put a rather pathetic voice to the Zodiac at the height of his fame. Belli's celebrity status offered a heightened potential for publicity and this may have influenced his choice to send the shirt piece with it instead of the Fairfield letter. He may have felt the Fairfield letter had limited publicity potential, while sending a correspondence to Belli was potentially television news worthy.

Ray Jenkins

2/24/2018 05:55:24 pm

I agree Drew, but I should add that I have always found it very interesting that the Zodiac never bothered to correct the mistake about "Sam".

One would think his ego would have got the better of him and he would have felt the need to pen something to Belli, the police, or media about Sam. He could have said "By the way, I am not Sam. The person calling himself Sam was an imposter." But no such "retraction" was ever offered from the Zodiac, as far as I am aware.

The Zodiac seldom did correct mistakes, however he sometimes embellished them. It was almost as though he did not really care, possibly because such things helped to cause confusion, while still shining the media spotlight on him. He may in fact have "got off" on the idea of being Sam.

So, in effect, Zodiac could bask in publicity and not get caught. Was he having his cake and eating it too?

It is interesting too, if we wish to speculate, that SAM could be seen as an abbreviation of the name SOLOMON. The name Solomon fits the repeated sequences in the My Name Is cipher perfectly. And of course Solomon is one of the great names in Freemasonry - being the architect of the great temple. Could the Zodiac have basked in the implicit irony that the name "Sam" had suddenly created? His mythology was taking on a life of its own through the media?

Richard

2/25/2018 04:07:18 am

The Robert Graysmith version is not a viable solution. I actually go the other way on anagrams being used to solve the cipher Judith - it's left to the observer to decide how to interpret the mix of letters, and that says more about the personality of reader than the killer.If you are left with a jumble of letters such as EDHTAE, you know the observer will see DEATH and totally ignore the other E, rather than find the word HEATED if it doesn't fit the narrative. Anything involving anagrams, from my point of view, I dismiss as viable. To create a cipher that doesn't have a solution, only another pile of jumbled up letters to be interpreted as you choose, is not a solution and from my perspective defeats the entire object of the encryption. With respect to anybody who believes they have solved the cipher, I have yet to see anything that remotely convinces me. I have created some mathematical ideas on the cipher, which I have never asserted are the definitive solution. From my standpoint, you can judge the veracity and likelihood you have solved the ciphers, in particular the 340 cipher, is by the feedback you get. If people are doing back-flips, and the newspapers and police are beating down your door, you may be on to something. Most 'solutions' do not read coherently and are interpretations by the solver. There are now probably 500 definite claims of the '340 cipher solved' and without doubt 1,000 definite Zodiac Killer's, from Kane, Sullivan, Allen etc. At best that is 499 and 999 people wrong, but each and everyone believes unequivocally they are correct. Ray is correct- it's like an atheist trying to convince Pat Robertson that God doesn't exist- it's a futile exercise. I will never claim I have solved the 340 cipher- I will let other people tell me I have. I have personally yet to see a viable solution, including the History Channel.version. The ultimate test of a good solution is when virtually everybody else sees what you see.

Richard

2/25/2018 04:55:12 am

In terms of suspects, you see the way this case has developed. When the common suspects have all been adopted by the masses, the remainder go searching for their unique suspect. Thomas Horan chose Robert Graysmith, Keith Power, Dennis Land and Harold Snook in his ever expanding hoax theory. People accuse Donald Harden, Richard Hoffman and have even accused the late Dave Toschi, in their eagerness to adopt their own suspect before anybody else claims them. And in their eagerness to have an adopted twin to nurture, next comes the cornucopia of circumstantial evidence held together by threadbare facts. Taking Ross Sullivan as an example- people state he was a bit weird, and was the only Zodiac suspect who worked at the library where Bates (assuming she was a Zodiac victim) was killed, and can be placed in the near vicinity of the campus. But he is only a Zodiac suspect because people made him so. Otherwise he just worked at the library and was weird. Well, Cheri Jo Bates frequented her church, the restaurant or cafe earlier that day, the Riverside college, the gas station, supermarket etc. I have no doubt a few weirdo's frequented or worked at these places also. So, I'll name Frank, who worked on the checkout at the supermarket. He is a viable Zodiac suspect- he was not only weird, but was slightly overweight, wore glasses, and had a widows peak. Not only that, but he is the only Zodiac suspect who not only had regular contact with Cheri every time she bought her sprouts, but he lived in Riverside and is the ONLY Zodiac suspect to have crossed paths with Cheri. But, he never could be placed within 100 miles of Vallejo, yet he must be Zodiac. Unless anybody can prove Frank wasn't in Benicia on December 20th 1968, that bolsters my case. It's not my job to prove he was there. Frank is my suspect now, everybody else can get their own.

Richard

2/25/2018 05:13:39 am

In fact, I may claim Pat Robertson as the Zodiac Killer- he certainly has lost touch with reality, has an obsession with religion and is the correct age. Maybe he found Jesus between March 1971 and January 1974 when locked up in a mental asylum.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPlVy85mRAs

Ray Jenkins

2/25/2018 02:48:48 pm

Agreed Richard! I am sure people must be going through old school records all the time for Riverside, finding that janitor or teacher who seemed a bit "off", and then trying to make him fit a Zodiac profile. Add a bit of hearsay and gossip to the mix.

I am actually very glad that I was not born in California and went to school in Riverside, or people might have said "Remember that kid, what was his name, he seemed a bit reserved and strange to me. Must have had something to hide! Look at his photos. He wears glasses! (check!). Let's go after him and question his family until they confess!! Annoy them relentlessly until they provide a blood sample."

Yes, and the now hackneyed words: "I KNOW he was the Zodiac so it is not my place to prove anything. If YOU don't agree with me then prove me wrong. I would like to see YOU do better. Go get your own suspect and write your own book if you think you can do better." LOL!

It all gets a bit laughable after a while.

Connolly

2/25/2018 11:05:57 am

programmed to kill - youtube
MKULTRA CIA black operation
Military-killer-cult-robot-assassin
before the term serial killer was chain killer
this was a time before the SK profile
this was before they knew leopards don't change spots
going from 22 caliber to 38 is not happening.
this is one of many things in this involuted case that
prove the killers were being covered for by the co-opted
media and through the Hearst owned papers (Patty was kidnapped
suspiciously from her UC Berkley dorm by SLA - then they were all killed by FBI when she was conveniently away from the group) the CIA disinformation
tactics provided cover for their murder program that they say they
no longer use on us - ZODIAC - San Fransisco CIA black ops program

Ray Jenkins

2/25/2018 02:15:43 pm

Why do I suddenly feel the urge to put on a tin foil hat?

Rubislaw 32 link

2/25/2018 11:51:04 am

Yes,Connolly....I have read about such things before....and if I am to understand you correctly...the suggestion that ''Zodiac'' constituted a ''phenomenon'' created by the CIA,to explain away certain covert action required,against subversively perceived elements of society [?].

The inference being that,either Zodiac was a combination of creation and reality....or complete creation...by ''Intelligence Authorities''.

And,that ''we'',Zodiac enthusiasts,are only fooling ourselves if,we continue to pursue the idea that an individual is out there,to be apprehended,and prosecuted for murder and extortion.

I do believe that Zodiac is out there,as a murderer and extortionist,to be apprehended....but the ''covert creation'',certainly asks questions [?].

It seems to me,that it would be the case that,and organisation like the CIA,would have to be fooling an organisation like the FBI.....and,for a number of years.

Yes,innocent people can be fooled quite easily....but can these ''devious'' organisations fool each other [?],without one of them calling ''foul'' quite quickly.

It takes one,to know one.

Connolly

2/25/2018 12:14:02 pm

I don't think we are spinning our wheels here.

I just think we got to look at all the angles.

And, the agencies work together as it suits them.

For a quick read "The CIA's Greatest Hits"

Murder is fun and games stuff for these guys.

Mark Felt was deep throat (secretly divulging CIA Howard Hunt's activity)

And Felt was the second in command of the FBI after JE.Hoover died suspiciously.

Felt had to go sneaking around because he knew how compromised the CIA is.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/25/2018 12:42:44 pm

Indeed...these matters should not be dismissed,out of hand.

Just to focus on the Zodiac case....history tells us that,following the murder of Darlene Ferrin,the FBI were awarded jurisdiction on the case,by [officially],the California DOJ.

Thereafter,it was in the interest of the CA DOJ,to ''smooth the way'',and keep local police forces,working in harmony with the FBI,in order to achieve one goal.

That being,to bring one man ascertained as ''armed and dangerous'',to justice,so that he could be successfully prosecuted for a series of [perceived] related crimes.

There was a lot of other sh*t going on at the time...granted.But,I fail to see any real evidence of anything other than the scenario,I have just painted.

J.Edgar.Hoover....despite his ''heinous'' plans for ''Black power'',saw the case of the Zodiac Killer,as a great public relations exercise for the FBI.One that could paint ''his'' precious organisation,in a good light,if solved satisfactorily.

Black power was mostly about dealing with L.A.,in its manifestation.

However,it was certainly the case that much of its ''breeding ground'' emanated from Northern California.

It would seem that Black power's breeding ground problem,was seen as the responsibility of the CIA.

And I believe that history tends to show,that the FBI and CIA managed to dance around each other ''quite deftly'',on this ''war'' on two fronts.

Ray Jenkins

2/25/2018 02:36:18 pm

Having just re-watched the great New Zealand comedy movie "Hunt for the Wilderpeople", I am suddenly reminded of a minor character named Psycho Sam. It seems Sam had became so overwhelmed by the many conspiracy theories in his head that he moved to a remote wilderness as a hermit. There he spent his days dressed up as a bush (literally). He lived a rough existence, surviving on possum stew and of course he sometimes felt the need to wear a tin foil hat. But his hideout was soon revealed after he updated a friend's cell phone in order to get "full coverage". LOL! His good nature was his downfall, as the cell phone was then re-directed to a makeshift police tower so they could track the phone to its source. Ironically, the Government and the police were not even concerned about Sam. They were after his two fugitive friends. But Sam got caught up in the midst of it all and it suddenly turned all of his greatest fears into reality around him. Well Social Services can be pretty scary! Probably more scary than the CIA in fact!

Very funny movie, suitable for young and old. I liked it better on second screening, because I had occasional problems with the "kiwi" accent at first.

I just thought I would provide a break from regular Zodiac transmissions with this light-hearted review. :-))

Connolly

2/25/2018 03:13:40 pm

I don't think that the goal of the armature Zodiac hunter has ever been nor should be to bust anyone for these crimes.

I do think the goal in part should be to reveal the identity of the Zodiac only, as we are not L.E..

If the goal was to get someone anyone then L.E. would have and according to some like Horan they already have.

If anyone was really needing someone to be punished for this (since the actual killers are long dead) you could easily get the agencies to pay for their complicity through civil courts and monetary judgments to the order of millions as they only require a preponderance of the evidence to be presented as apposed to beyond a reasonable doubt, like in criminal court. And, just like they have determined by civil judgment along time ago who had JFK murdered (Malcolm Wallace for LBJ). Same-thing here. No DNA required. Civil courts would prove out. They get judgments all the time here in California. They go by a completely different set of rules which would work to our benefit. This is why the FBI wants control though - to keep California out. Get the corrupt FBI out of the picture and the case can be closed. The FBI excuse is that it crossed over the Nevada border giving the FBI jurisdiction.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/25/2018 03:49:44 pm

I think you have hit the nail on the head,Connolly,over the ''problem'' that the FBI has transpired to prove to be....and in relationship to the Zodiac case,in particular.

Perhaps simplistically,I always think that it of Narlow and Toschi had been handed the case,it would have been solved.

But life is unfair,and ''the Feds'' wanted the action and the glory.....and f**k*d it up,good and proper.

Different days,with ''Dictator'' Hoover,in charge,and the CA DOJ having to pretend that they were grateful,for the assistance.

Move forward to to-day.Can the pieces be picked up,and something retrieved from the ''wreckage'' [?].

Trump's firing of Comey,sent out the right message.FBI Directors are supposed to be answerable to the US DOJ...and in the case of the Zodiac Killer,the CA DOJ.

So,we ''sort of'' know that the judiciary has reasserted itself,and that the FBI are starting to understand that they are ''only'' policemen.

There still may be hope,yet.

Ray Jenkins

2/26/2018 03:46:24 am

And so we saw the fictional Harry Callahan grace the silver screen as the renegade cop who refuses to let anything, including the law, prevent him from catching a killer. San Francisco was chosen for a reason. The film seemed to encapsulate the public's yearning for such a tough cop to seek out the Zodiac and bring him to justice by any means. The idea that things get bogged down due to overhanded jurisdictional processes rang true for many people. Scorpio was perhaps too much of a cardboard cut-out sicko to be the Zodiac. But has anyone ever noticed the handwriting on the Scorpio note in the opening scenes? Whoever wrote that note for the film must have been channeling the Zodiac at the time! The writing is very much like that of the Zodiac. Clearly the similarity was entirely intentional.

Connolly

2/25/2018 04:16:22 pm

Maybe somebody with money could sue (institute legal proceedings against (a person or institution), typically for redress) the crap out of those FBI bastards to start.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/26/2018 03:41:39 am

Yes,a series of private lawsuits could happen,in the future.

But,with such a great time lapse,any judge or court would,more than likely,need proof that Zodiac did actually exist,to be a particular perpetrator.

So,we are really back to needing a conviction,of any sort,on the man who was Zodiac.

It would be irresponsible of me to ''name names'' here,but I have inferred,in the past,that L.E.'s best chance,may well rest,in the re-investigation of one prostitute.

I have tried to reach out to a human rights lawyer over this....so far unsuccessfully....but do not discount his assistance,in the future.

All things said,''that'' conviction has to come about first.

Then,the can of worms can be opened,legally.

Then,the floodgates on private lawsuits,will be released [!].

Drew

2/26/2018 12:07:13 pm

Richard, was this Fairfield letter sent to the Fairfield newspaper? I have always assumed that it was but it now occurs to me that I have never seen the envelope and I'm making a big fat assumption. If it was sent to the newspaper in Fairfield that would be relevant for my investigation of the guy who worked at that paper as well as the Albany Times. If it was actually sent to a San Francisco newspaper I should probably refrain for touting it as a compelling coincidence.

Tahoe27

2/26/2018 01:00:00 pm

It was sent to the S.F. Examiner.

Drew

2/26/2018 01:17:10 pm

Thanks Tahoe, that's disappointing but I am grateful to get the facts straight. For a while there I thought I really had something interesting on a certain ex-husband of a certain Zodiac victim! Much appreciated!

Tahoe27

2/26/2018 01:50:02 pm

Sure thing Drew! Here is a link to the envelope. Please let me know if it doesn't work. Really, unlike Zodiac. https://imgur.com/LsgvpFg

Tahoe27

2/26/2018 01:47:22 pm

I respect everyone's right to their own point of view, but this letter (in my eyes) could not not be more fake. The writing looks nothing like Zodiac and the tone isn't like his either...but of course this is just my opinion. The envelope is nothing like Zodiac either...even uses a zip code. Not to mention the paper itself. ??

My unpopular opinion is that the Halloween card, the Pines card, and the card to the psychiatrist were all sent by the same faker. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this was written by that same person. In fact, the "K" in "Knife" of the bleeding knife looks awfully like the goof on the Pines card (k with the h look that was covered up by the L in Chronicle).

Many people got off on this sort of thing then. So many fakes. Why they do it is beyond me. Some were bad, but some were good and those were the ones that slipped through the cracks, imo.

Those four symbols around the main symbol is interesting and does seem to be like that of the HC card. Nice catch.

Drew

2/26/2018 02:23:48 pm

I definitely see what you mean about the envelope, that is a big red flag. I think you have an interesting theory about the paste cards being hoaxes as I too have issues with all of them but I remain hesitant to accept it. Regarding hoaxing as a past time, I suppose that dates back to Jack the Ripper but I agree it is very disturbing and perplexing that people do that. The only tidbit I have to counter with is this clip of Lt Ellis discussing the lack of Zodiac crank calls received, but he doesn't mention hoax letters. Anyways you have probably seen this before. https://diva.sfsu.edu/bundles/231080
Maybe I just need a few more years of intense scrutiny! I thought Oakland was an interesting mention on the Fairfield letter. Didn't Sam the Dunbar caller initially begin the dialogue with the Oakland police?

Tahoe27

2/26/2018 02:34:02 pm

Going totally off memory here....it seems some people thought the real Zodiac did call the Oakland P.D, but this fake Sam was the one who called the show. Although, I don't know how they'd know the real Zodiac called the Oakland P.D. And why would he? I think there was a kooky guy (or two) out there...

Ray Jenkins

2/26/2018 02:49:10 pm

Oakland PD had one of the most corrupt police departments at the time, and this extended almost until present day. Barrett Wysling was an officer there. He was also a Freemason with strong Pythian connections. I cannot help but wonder about him, as the fit, strong man back in the 60s, not as the sick old man presented to us just prior to his death. It seems to me that a corrupt department could lend itself well to a Zodiac-like element that remained concealed for decades. The celebrity postcard was mailed from Oakland too, although there is every possibility that the sender had stolen a postmark from there, or had the card stamped there before posting it elsewhere. I think this postcard was just another fake, as the solution is extremely simple to the point of being childish and obvious, although many have made it much more complicated than it should be. People tend to be like that. Give them a cipher and they will always come up with the most complicated and impossible solution, when often the solution is right there in front of the eyes. Hidden in plain sight perhaps describes the Zodiac well. But just how much of the correspondence can be attributed to one individual who was also a killer is difficult to ascertain. In a strange way I have my own suspect for posting the Celebrity Cipher. I have often wondered if Bettye Harden posted this card, for reasons of her own. Perhaps she just didn't want the Zodiac story to end unless it ended with her. Or maybe Toschi sent that card? Who would know. Toschi openly admitted to faking his own fan mail, which is kind of funny when you really think about it. Seems to speak volumes about one's desperation to be recognized. So many egos were at play during that era. Too many in fact. :-)

Richard

2/26/2018 03:24:03 pm

I don't know if the October 22nd 1969 call to Oakland Police Department was from Zodiac. The caller asked for F Lee Bailey to appear on the Jim Dunbar Show, and if not he would accept Melvin Belli. The eventual caller may have effectively stole Zodiac's slot-he was Eric Weil, a hoaxer. The show effectively took place later that day, so the question is, how did the news of the Oakland phone call become known to Eric Weil in a mental institution. The fact he appeared on the show hours after the phone call impersonating Zodiac, the phone call must have been made public first. That being said, is it likely Eric Weil made the original phone call off his own back, or it was actually Zodiac-and Eric Weil was just 'cashing' in.
If Zodiac was denied his appearance on the show, this may explain why he followed up with the Belli letter, mimicking the mental patient by stating he was about to 'lose control'. In other words, he was mocking the Dunbar Show and police. He even used the same font on the envelope (1228) to Belli, taken from his actual house number, indicating he had visited Belli's Montgomery residence. This later communication on December 20th 1969 may have been a follow up after being denied his Dunbar experience, or he latched onto the 'call to chat show' episode and wrote the Belli letter containing the tone of a man reaching out for help. I believe he was just mimicking Sam on the Dunbar Show, like he parroted much of his correspondence, such as the Mikado, Red Phantom, Dangerous Game etc.

Ray Jenkins

2/26/2018 05:48:19 pm

Very interesting observations there Richard. Yes it almost seems as though Eric Weil was a serial Zodiac copycat. I recall reading a bizarre conspiracy theory one time that claimed the Zodiac and Eric Weil were known to one another, perhaps because they had both been in the mental institution together at some point, and the Zodiac was intimidating him into writing some of the letters and making the phone calls. I guess anything is possible. But we have heard similar conspiracies involving White Rabbit and Bruce Davis, have we not?

I recall asking a sheriff in one of the smaller offices one time if anyone had ever considered the possibility that Eric Weil might have been considered a suspect, or at least an associate of the Zodiac in some way? He did not know and said he would try to find out. I heard nothing more about it. I realize this sounds preposterous, but a lot of serial killers, once caught, fail to live up to our larger-than-life expectations of them. Take the Green River Killer for example, who many assumed had to be a big strong man capable of lifting multiple bodies and roll over boulders and pick up logs. He turned out to be an unimpressive, small-framed, rather squint-eyed individual. Only one of the many sketches of the Green River Killer actually looked like him. It turned out to be an extremely good likeness in fact. So I wonder, which, if any, of the Zodiac sketches may have actually resembled the Zodiac killer?

Richard

2/27/2018 12:30:37 am

The caller 'Sam' to the Dunbar Show rang in 12 times, and the Oakland PD caller wasn't determined. How does a man have this much free access to a phone in a mental institution, without being monitored. Here ia an extract from the Desert Sun on 22nd October "SAN FRANCISCO (UPI)- A man who said he w'as Northern California’s "Zodiac killer” of five persons talked with a San Francisco attorney by telephone today while television viewers listened .in. Attorney Melvin Belli also talked with the man on another, private line, then said he had arranged to meet with him. Police said they had no way of knowing whether the man was "Zodiac,” who has boasted in notes of five killings in the San Francisco Bay area in the last nine months. But they said they did not consider the caller a prankster. The caller first called a police station at 2 a.m. and said he wanted to get in touch wbth either Belli, the attorney w'ho once defended Jack Ruby in Dallas, or Boston lawyer F. Lee Bailey. He asked that one of them be on the morning talk show of disc jockey Jim Dunbar on KGO-TV. Police contacted Belli, who went to the studio. The man, who said his name was "Sam,” called shortly after 7 a.m and said he was the ‘‘Zodiac killer.” He hung up immediately, but called back a total of 12 more times. While Belli and Jim Dunbar, host of the show, pleaded with him to give himself up, the caller said he suffered from recurring headaches and impulses to kill. Finally, the caller agreed to have Belli go to the San Francisco district attorney’s office to see if prosecutors would assure him they would not ask for the death penalty. Belli said that in another call off camera, the man had agreed to meet him at a secret location after the conference with the district attorney."

The call to Oakland PD was 2.00 am, and the "Sam" caller rang in at 7.00 am, only five hours later, suggesting that if Eric Weil was the responsible who rang Oakland PD, he was making phone calls unmonitored at these times. The KGO station cancelled its regular guests to accommodate the person claiming to be Zodiac. But for Eric Weil to be aware of this suggests, with the absence of a newspaper delivery to the mental institution prior to 7.00 am, Eric Weil must have been listening to the radio or watching TV all night, to have known the Dunbar Show had rearranged their show to accommodate him. I didn't know mental institutions allowed residents to stay up all night making a total of 13 phone calls and listening to the TV or radio throughout.

Ray Jenkins

2/27/2018 01:20:33 am

Yes I agree entirely. There is a lot about Eric Weill's calls that don't quite add up. He does seem to be a speck on the Zodiac radar, but how he connects to the bigger picture still perplexes me. He either connects with the Zodiac somehow or he was just a serial prankster who had far too many privileges granted to him in the mental institution. There have been many horror stories about such places during that era. Neglect was common. Perhaps the hapless "inmates" were given the run of the place, if they were deemed non-violent?

Tahoe27

2/28/2018 11:16:55 am

Perhaps Eric Weil was the guy threatening Dr. Adams. I think the FK I'm crackproof card was an obvious fake (later determined by officials), and after Avery got it published, he had a new fan.

I cannot stand watching/listening to Melvin Belli. I have no doubt Zodiac was mocking him.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/26/2018 02:27:26 pm

Your comments are certainly absorbed by me,Tahoe 27.

I believe that you offer good reasons,but I am not wholly convinced,since I believe that there was the ''agricultural'' and ''sophisticated'' side to ''one and the same'' Zodiac.

The Fairfied letter,naturally,more on the ''agricultural'' side.

A point of interest,in you mentioning the Pines card.

Is it not the case [.....and stand to be corrected....],that when the Pines card first came into the public domain,it was immediately assumed to be a reference to William Grant...in that he lived on Cordelia Road,in a house surrounded by pines [?].

Then,when later the ''Mary Pike'' Christmas card emerged....and that being that she was the sister of Donna Lass....that the ''Lass'' link to the Pines card,became ''the interest'' [?].

Any feedback would be good...your reputation as an archivist,is respected.

Tahoe27

2/26/2018 02:40:02 pm

I don't know when Grant became associated with the Pines card. I hadn't heard any of that until Lafferty's book came out. I think the person who took that to be a reference to Grant was Lafferty. I'd say the connection with the card Donna's sister received came first, but...I don't know. ...and thanks for the kind words.

Ray Jenkins

2/26/2018 02:59:14 pm

In California, pine trees are everywhere. There are almost as many pine trees as men wearing glasses with widow's peaks who looked like the Zodiac... or vice versa! lol!

Tahoe27

2/28/2018 11:18:29 am

Which is why when people refer to peeking through pines in Lake Tahoe...I laugh. "Looks at all the pine trees...this must be the spot"....ugh :)

Ray Jenkins

2/26/2018 02:30:23 pm

You could very well be correct in your estimation of the Zodiac correspondence. I can quite imagine someone like Manson or one of his crazy followers getting high on weed and/or LSD or whatever and one of them deciding to pen a Zodiac letter just for a gag. If they could fake the Zodiac's style of writing for the Dirty Harry movie, it seems to me that anyone could have faked that general style. And as handwriting often reflects the schooling of a generation in a particular place and time, it is not difficult to find many people who shared that style of writing. That style of writing was almost as numerous as the Zodiac-like faces seen wearing horn-rimmed spectacles at the time. The fact that this letter talks about the Government and going after Government employees sounds like something a political activist might write. My bet is that someone was copying the Zodiac in this Fairfield letter, but did a poor job of it. The "Ha! Ha! Ha!" at the end seems rather too childish and amateurish to be from the Zodiac IMHO. It sounds like someone was just trying to parody Jack the Ripper as a parting joke. To me it sounds as though the author of the letter is implying that "If anybody is stupid enough to believe this, they would probably believe anything, so Ha, Ha, Ha, the joke is on them". At least that is the feeling I am always left with after reading this letter.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/26/2018 03:01:26 pm

Thanks Tahoe 27.

So,it does seem that a William Grant link to the Pines card,was inspired by Lyndon Lafferty,himself.

Sometimes its tricky to keep links and theories ''compartmentalised'' [?].

And,with Lyndon Lafferty's book,he was forced,for legal reasons,to use pseudonyms.....which presents ''riddles'',in themselves [!].

But,with the Pines card,we know that William Grant was a member of the Sierra Club.As was Edward Adams and Judge Sherwin.

I believe that it was Edward Adams,who was Grant's therapist.In addition,when Marion,Grants wife,had a nervous breakdown...it was,again,Edward Adams who treated Marion.

One has to wonder if there was a bit more to the Pines card and William Grant,than ''just'' Lyndon Lafferty's opinion [?].

Ray Jenkins

2/28/2018 06:01:37 pm

For such a well publicized and high profile case, I would not be surprised if faked Zodiac correspondence was commonplace, perhaps more commonplace than many of us realize. Faking the Zodiac was potentially quite easy. Even the people who brought us Dirty Harry seemed to be in on the gag.
http://www.nortonsmoviemaps.com/uploads/1/7/4/3/17430233/7303605_orig.gif

Rubislaw 32 link

2/28/2018 01:09:17 pm

I agree with you,Tahoe 27,that Zodiac was,for the main part,mocking Belli,in his letter.

But he had to keep this ''mock'',a questionable mock....since he,Zodiac,realised that there might be a time in the future,when someone like Belli might come in handy....like,if Zodiac got arrested,for instance [!].

The Belli letter,was really a tool,for Zodiac to show a ''sensitive'' side,to him.And,probably enjoyed a good laugh,when the psychologists came out of the woodworm,to defend Zodiac [!].

The Edward Adams letter,is genuine Zodiac,I believe....yet another example of Zodiac,attempting to incriminate William Grant,who was a client of Adams.

Tahoe27

2/28/2018 03:13:34 pm

Where did you get that info? That Grant was a client of Adams? Who would know that?

Rubislaw 32 link

2/28/2018 03:48:20 pm

Well Tahoe 27....Yvonne Lafferty,for one.

I think this idea that L.E. are the ''great arbiters in the sky'' over what correspondences are authentic,and which ones are not....

...handicaps those that buy into,this clearly ''naive'' approach [?].

Ray Jenkins

2/28/2018 05:54:47 pm

Why would the Zodiac write to someone and tell them they are next? The Zodiac's M.O. was more to just go out and do something unexpectedly, then write a letter boasting about it later. This sounds more like something a prankster or nutter might have pasted together, IMHO. As for Belli, "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", and, for that matter, so is a good roast. Yes, Belli was the Ace that the Zodiac kept up his sleeve, just in case!

3/1/2018 01:03:58 pm

Son of Sam - David Berkowitz said he was acting in concert with a cult.

Tahoe27

3/2/2018 02:12:05 pm

When did it come to light that Mrs. Lafferty and Grant were Adams patients? The Adams card (or at least his name on it) is relatively new. Not only that, but people's psychiatric backgrounds are very private. How would she know about Grant? I ask genuinely...not to be a jerk. ;)

Rubislaw 32 link

3/2/2018 02:59:45 pm

I realise that you are trying to understand what I am saying,Tahoe 27.

Firstly,it was William Grant and,latterly,Marion Grant who were patients of Edward Adams....a fellow Sierra Club member,with William.

Yvonne Lafferty was Marion's best friend,and closest person to being a confident of Marion.

Following William winning his harassment injunction,to stop the cops pestering him....Marion had a nervous breakdown.It remains unclear,precisely why she had this breakdown.

But,Yvonne Lafferty is aware that Marion's husband William insisted that she seek therapy from his psychiatrist,Edward Adams.

Marion could not tell Yvonne,what the problem was....in fact,Marion couldn't even bring herself to tell Edward Adams,what the problem was [!].

So,Edward Adams suggested that Marion persuade William to accompany Marion,to visit him,Adams.....and that the three of them sort it out together.

When Marion asked William to visit Adams,with her,he flew into a rage.

The upshot was that Adams just treated Marion,the best he could.

So,neither Yvonne,nor Edwards Adams ever got to the bottom of Marion's problem.

That....remained a secret between ''Mr.and Mrs,Grant''....and they both took it to their graves.

Rubislaw 32 link

3/2/2018 04:58:10 am

Just looking at the Pines card,again.....

This idea that it referred to Donna Lass,is ''close'' to wholly ridiculous...

.....and undoubtedly pushed to the fore,by those who favoured Kane,as a viably suspect.

Kane,the petty crook,who had a penchant for wandering hands up lady's skirts,and rummaging around,in their handbags.

WJGrant had a house on Cordelia Rd.,that could only be seen,by ''peeking through the pines''.

WJGrant owned a luxury chalet in the mountains at Tahoe,where he and his wife,Marion,would often retreat to,at weekends.And invite friends over for B-B-Q parties,and the like.

This would include Lyndon and Yvonne Lafferty,on account that Marion and Yvonne,were best friends and work colleagues.Lyndon went,out of a sense of duty to his wife,but found Grant,uncomfortable company.

WJGrant was a member of The Sierra Club.Edward Adams was a member of The Sierra Club.

WJGrant battled addiction to alcohol and gambling,for many years,and sought therapy in Psychiatrist Adams.As did Marion,latterly,following Grant winning a harassment injunction against the police.

Ray Jenkins

3/2/2018 12:55:17 pm

What a tangled web some people wove!

Maybe Grant did send some of the Zodiac correspondence as a kind of nutty joke, when drunk or otherwise mentally impaired?

Rubislaw 32 link

3/2/2018 01:23:32 pm

Of course the inference is,that Lafferty was mistaken....that,in effect,Grant sent no correspondences,and wasn't Zodiac.

The ''reality'' being,that Zodiac composed the correspondences,in a manner that would be interpreted by L.E.,as having been composed by Grant.

Zodiac,in effect,tried to incriminate Grant,as if being himself,Zodiac.

I believe that L.E. realised this,early on....and therefore supposed that Grant would know who Zodiac was.

Unfortunately,L.E. fell foul of the law themselves,by harassing Grant.

When Grant won his injunction,L.E. could never go near Grant,again [!].

Rubislaw 32 link

3/2/2018 09:09:06 am

Of interest,perhaps,if only as a possible link [?] :

Pines Card 22nd March 1971

SOUGHT victim 12

Monticello Card 13th July 1971

SHOUGHT victims 21

Benicia High School Note Autumn 1972

SOULD have said.....

Rubislaw 32 link

3/2/2018 04:27:27 pm

This ''You are next'' Edward Adams pasted letter.

If,as seems the case that Zodiac composed that correspondence,then..

What it appears to mean is that,again,Zodiac was attempting to incriminate William Grant,as himself,Zodiac.

Zodiac had,more than likely,found out that Grant was in therapy,for his addiction to alcohol and gambling....and that Edward Adams was Grant's psychiatrist.

But,there may have been more at stake to this,in Zodiac's mind [?].

That,for instance,Grant may reveal more to Adams,than just his problems with drink and gaming tables [?].

If Adams turns the correspondence over to the authorities,which it seems that he did,then Grant gets more grief from L.E.....and Adams can't reveal anything of his therapy sessions with Grant,anyway,because of ''client confidentiality''.

So,just Grant on his own on this one [?].

The inference is that Zodiac was beginning to realise that Grant was simply too ashamed about what he,Grant,had to hide.

If the police were smart,they must have realised that Grant was actually being held to ''moral ransom'',by someone that was probably Zodiac.

If only they could get Grant to open up [?].

But,they blew it by being too heavy handed,and,through Grant's injunction,secured the maintaining of his silence,for himself,on the matter.

Rubislaw 32 link

3/2/2018 04:33:08 pm

.....and in addition,Zodiac had,at least,''leaned'' on Adams,to keep his mouth shut,if he did know ''anything extra'',from therapy sessions with Grant.

Ray Jenkins

3/2/2018 05:38:54 pm

I find this interesting and also very plausible, but ultimately how do we know for sure? For all we know Grant may have had nothing to do with Zodiac and vice versa. Neither of them may have known the other man's identity. The suggestion of course is that there was some kind of "inner circle" of people gravitating around the Sierra Club and Zodiac was a member (?)

It would also be plausible to contend that Grant posted the Sierra card during a drunken or loony episode. He would have had no need to imitate himself, if he was the author!

Rubislaw 32 link

3/2/2018 11:29:39 pm

These are certainly pertinent points,Ray.

What further I am willing to add....

Lyndon :

What I have recounted is a combination of Lyndon's book,and what,at a given time,he was able to convey to me.Of course,Lyndon came to the conclusion,that Grant and Zodiac must be the same person,in a sense that Grant had some sort of split personality.

Which personally,I didn't buy into,myself...but was grateful for anything from Lyndon,himself.

Yvonne :

That really is the sum total of what Yvonne ever found out about her friend,Marion's problem.The inference is that her nervous breakdown came about,after ''new'' knowledge learned from her husband,William,following his securing of that injunction.

Zodiac :

Yes,I believe there was a ''clique'' in the Sierra Club,with favours offered,etc.But,I don't believe that Zodiac was a member.A lot of the information that Zodiac picked up on William....was through plain stalking and following.

For the police,it wasn't just about human impersonation.There are indications,that William was being ''clocked'' by the cops,because it was becoming apparent that William seemed to ''change out'' his cars quite regularly...and that the cars appeared to match perceived cars reported in Zodiac's crimes.

William :

What is known about this very private and ''prickly'' man is that he would tell his AA followers that he had done ''terrible things'' in the past.But Alcoholism is about denial....and so have many of them.William wouldn't specify what these ''terrible things'' were.

William is known to have made one comment ''aloud'',following his successful injunction against the police.That being that he intended to carry a shotgun in his car,from there on.Inferring,if you will,that this problem with the police,had come about because someone was stalking him.Which was probably true [!].

Naturally,the police had little or nothing,to hold William on,regarding the Zodiac case....and this is really why they ended up being found by a judge to have harassed William.From what I gather,William was a practising bi-sexual,and had been ''clocked'',entertaining young men in Motel rooms.But,behind doors,it would have been difficult....and perhaps ''beneath them'',to arrest William for sodomy.

So yes,it certainly looks as if William and Marion took secrets to their grave.

The question is...could William have done more,to bring the case of the Zodiac Killer,to an end ?

I believe so.

Connolly

3/3/2018 03:27:39 pm

Rubislaw32

list of serial killers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims

this list also through stats helps show how these killers like to work together

And, it shows that serial killers actually have a lower than average I.Q. unlike presented by popular media narratives. Addiction, mental illness, violence, being kissing cousins. Do you think his Alcoholism was a big factor in his behavior choices? Are there signs that the Zodiac was an alki?

Rubislaw 32 link

3/3/2018 05:21:49 pm

That's interesting,Connolly,in what you suggest is claimed.

If course,I don't believe that WJGrant was Zodiac...that is the claim of Lyndon Lafferty.

But,I would suggest that L.E. have always been persuaded that Grant could have,at least,given L.E. enough information to lead L.E. to Zodiac.

I believe that Grant was pretty bright....a sort of ''not suffer fools gladly'' person.Immensely selfish....a deceiver and ''dodger'' of the real action in WW2.He appears to have treated Marion,his wife,very badly.....''dumped'' on her his real problems,after she stood by him,and assisted him get his injunction,to keep the cops away.

Then Marion was stuck with his ''guilt'' for the rest of her life.His ''guilt'' about knowing who the real Zodiac was.

How could Grant possibly be seen in anything but a bad light.....as far as Grant,himself was concerned...if he did tell L.E. the whole truth.

Perhaps Alcoholism played a part in persuading Grant,to remain quiet on the matter [?].

Ray Jenkins

3/3/2018 06:06:20 pm

You seem to be suggesting that Grant knew who the Zodiac was, or at least had suspicions, but never told the police?

There seems to have been a lot of people who "knew who the Zodiac was". Perhaps this was just some popular syndrome suffered by many, but the mentally ill were more prone to such delusions?

The Zodiac was also at one time Richard Gaikowski, who only became a suspect after his former friend Purple Blaine decided to spill the beans on him. Well we know how that one turned out.

So I wonder, why should Grant's particular delusions be any more realistic, especially seeing we have no real proof that he ever actually knew the Zodiac? This is like a convenient speculation built on what others have implied about a man who was often drunk and mentally ill and he and all the witnesses are now deceased. So you can see how this story comes across today!

I have read through Lafferty's book but find his style of writing rather bizarre. It often appears as though he is exaggerating and embellishing certain instances for full literary effect. I find myself questioning many of the things that he relates.

Ray Jenkins

3/3/2018 04:43:17 pm

Some serial killers appear quite normal on the outside and can even be devout church goers, e.g. Dennis Rader. There are no hard and fast rules. Of course, addiction mixed with mental illness can create a bad brew, and even sane people can do some pretty stupid things when drunk, high, or stoned too. The Zodiac was clever enough to at least make many people believe he had a higher than average IQ.

He wrote about mildly technical stuff, such as bombs and compasses and maps. But his bomb sketches seem like something straight out of Batman or Wile Coyote to my eyes. I cannot even look at them without laughing. He talks about digging big holes in the road and filling them with fertilizer. One wonders if the brand of fertilizer he had in mind was "ACME". LOL!

Likewise, his rants about the apparent importance of radians to an inch while referencing nothing more than a common street map, still keeps everybody baffled to this day, and suggests a lot about how amateurish he really was. The thing is anybody can write something that is really amateurish and stupid, but if people are looking for something greater, they will try to find things that are not really there. The stupid and amateurish writing can then appear like the author possessed the mind of a genius. I mean, if nobody can understand it, then he must have been a genius, right? Well maybe not. Maybe what he wrote was indeed stupid and amateurish, but served its purpose of fooling people into believing otherwise. So it is possible to appear to be a genius while actually being stupid.

It always seems to me that he aspired to some kind of cosmic greatness, and he may have gleaned some basic knowledge from his past experiences: church, hobbies, school, work etc. Criminals can have low IQs but still be adept liars. They can also be sly and cunning, and very manipulative of people and facts.

Rubislaw 32 link

3/3/2018 07:04:55 pm

These are interesting comments,Ray,and particularly with reference to
why Grant,or anyone else,for that matter should believe that they knew who Zodiac was.

On the surface,I am suggesting that there are many indications,inferred in the official documented account of the Zodiac case...that WJGrant was,at least,on the wrong end of Zodiac's ''attention''.And,that weighing the number of those indications [police attention,inferences in Zodiac correspondences,motorcar ''impersonation'',etc.],there are grounds to indicate that Grant was actually the focus of a vendetta,from Zodiac.

''Vendetta'' tends to take us into the ''personal'' arena.That,in effect,the ''attention'' was far from welcome.....and constituted something deliberate and menacing.

From a personal perspective,and different from Lafferty [...obviously..].I am suggesting that,for Grant...this vendetta came out of the blue....and was probably ignorant of its origins,to start with....but slowly it started to dawn on him....just why this was happening to him.

So,there was always a side to Grant that was partially ''in denial'',and felt that he could justify to himself,that he couldn't actually assist the police,with complete confidence of Zodiac's real identity.

So Grant,in effect,took the ''coward's'' way out,and elected to simply stick with ''denial''.

Anything to re-claim a quiet life.

Connolly

3/5/2018 09:20:58 am

So you are saying that WJGrant was the key to Zodiac stepping out of the random serial killer role? He (Zodiac) was finally doing something that cops could go after him for. Am I saying that right?

Rubislaw 32 link

3/5/2018 06:03:04 pm

Yes Connolly,you are indeed correct [!].

It is a relief to me that someone [....you...] actually gets it.

As far as I am aware,and events of the last three years,tell me that L.E. ''get it''.It's just the wheels of judicial process are incredibly slow....and with no certain outcome.

Though I am confident that the truth will emerge,in some shape or form.

Why was Grant the object of Zodiac's attention ?

Why did Marion have a nervous breakdown,following Grants injunction victory,over the cops ?

What did Grant take to his grave ?

Understandably,everyone wants to know who Zodiac was.

I would suggest,with confidence,that in order to know the above,one has ascertain ''Prime Motive'' of Zodiac.

Once the ''why'' is established,then the ''who'' will become apparent.

Sorry I can't be less ''cryptic'',than this [!].

But,I intend that this year....is the year of the ''jugular''.

''We'' haven't got ''Forever'' [?].

Ray Jenkins

3/5/2018 06:19:45 pm

In your earlier comments above you seemed unconvinced about Grant. Then here you say as if with certainty:

"Why was Grant the object of Zodiac's attention ?

"Why did Marion have a nervous breakdown,following Grants injunction victory,over the cops ?

"What did Grant take to his grave ?"

So are your certain or not, or just cryptically "beating around the bush" with this whole Grant scenario? I would like to see some proof that supports any of it. Considering you are now writing with certainty about this hypothesis, clearly you must have proof. Or are you just speculating based on other people's (i.e. Lafferty's?) speculations?

You can't be less cryptic but clearly you could be more! Either way it does not satisfy my desire for proof above wild speculation.

Connolly

3/6/2018 11:21:29 am

Ah! So that is why "they" don't want the Bates connection to be codified. This is the ultimate revelation you can make. Good Job! This shows why they have not solved this case. Lawyers are blocking. And, confidentiality agreements keep peoples mouths shut. Very good deduction. I can tell that if you extrapolate this avenue to its ultimate conclusion you will solve this case. This is yours Rubislaw 32. Cut another millimeter deeper and you will hit the jugular.

Rubislaw 32 link

3/6/2018 01:28:22 pm

Well thanks for your kind words,Connolly.

There seem to be a number of possible complexities,for the judiciary,and their cold case units.

One of them,having to attempt to access confidential data,that is protected by State legislation,for example.

But,I would have thought that,for the ''bare bones'' of information,necessary to,at least convince themselves of a ''case fit'',can be gleaned from organisations,such the IRS.

For the judiciary,it is all about the feasibility of constructing a prosecution case...and one that they feel confident,that they can win.

Bottom line.....don't waste public money [!].

But actually,Connolly,the case is already solved,in theory,and all relevant information,passed on.

A moment of ''epiphany'',about four months,after Grant died,and looking back to ''events'',in the week that Grant actually died [2012].

Can the ''fox'' be prised from his lair ? Hope so.

He has threatened to ''sue my ass''.

Naturally,I would be happy for him to try [!].

Best,that I say no more on the matter.

Thanks again.

Connolly

3/6/2018 03:20:48 pm

You are welcome!
Before you go. I was wondering if what Richard wrote here is along the lines of this dirty connection between LE and the Mob for which you allude.

Darlene had refused to join the Ott drug organization and was selling as a free agent. Her companion, Michael Mageau was with Darlene at the time of her death and he apparently knows who killed her. He was shot several times by the assailant and went into hiding after he recovered. He will not talk about the case. When Darlene’s sister attempted to visit Mageau years later, shots were fired into her house in Antioch – the family dog was killed in the process. Also, a Police officer working with Darlene’s family was also shot at. The drug community indicates that Mageau may actually have set Darlene up.
The Vallejo drug community has forwarded information in Darlene’s case stating that Darlene knew too much about the drug traffic and police connection to the drug traffic and that she would not join the drug organization and provide a portion of her sales to them.
Darlene, like most of the known victims, was not a victim of the Zodiac - she was a victim – as many were – of the Vallejo-Napa drug community. When the original Zodiac letter was sent – six days after Darlene’s murder – the Vallejo Police jumped at the chance of linking it to a serial killer – it fit a pattern that would divert attention away from them. The Police have been in conflict – one officer, who accompanied Darlene to the hospital in the back of the ambulance – says that she was dead at the scene. But two officers who responded to the murder scene state that not only was Darlene alive at the time she was placed in the ambulance, she was also expected to live. She was pronounced dead on arrival at the hospital. She died in the ambulance, attended only by a single police officer, who was the first on the scene to the shooting and also the first on the scene to the Jensen-Faraday shootings. This police officer had also dated Darlene.
One of the strangest events associated with Darlene’s death was that the passenger door handle was missing at the scene of the crime. Mageau could not get out of the car because the door handle wouldn’t work. The handle was not on the car when it was impounded by the Police. The vehicle was under tight compound security and on the next day, the door handle had been placed back on the vehicle within the secure compound. Darlene was not a Zodiac-related killing.
The drug community indicates that Officer Petri shot Darlene, acting as a hit man for the Ott organization. Another Police officer in the ambulance is believed to have finished the job. Darlene knew Kane and Kane knew Paul Stein – all involved in the drug traffic. In the meantime, Donna Lass was entering her fourth month on the East Coast with a prominent and wealthy doctor – Robert E. Hunter, Sr., father of Robert E. Hunter Jr.

Hunter, an ingenious San Francisco banker was a prime suspect in the Zodiac murders – but he never killed anyone. This does not mean that he was innocent or that he was not involved in the case. His house, his clues, his symbolisms, and especially his handwriting lay critical evidence at his door step. Hunter appears to be the architect of the hoax that lead police investigators on a wild goose chase. The purpose would be diversion. Stein had just been robbed while driving his Yellow Cab in San Francisco. He was reluctant about picking up any passengers. Yet the last passenger he would ever pick up was allowed to sit in the front seat. Stein would also have been upset with the murder of Darlene Ferrin, a close friend of his. Stein did not know Hunter but he did know Kane, quite well. Kane also was familiar with Stein’s ties to Darlene and the drug organization. Kane had worked for the mob in Vegas. His Vegas mob boss went to the Midwest for a “mob organization” meeting. He was murdered there. Kane came back to the Bay Area.
When the cab driver was murdered, his log showed the address on Washington Street to be that of Hunter’s. Hunter knew Donna Lass as the woman who ran off with his father for six months to the East Coast. Hunter’s father was wealthy – so wealthy that he donated an entire wing to a hospital in Southern California were Donna Lass worked as a nurse. It was Kane that drove Lass to Lake Tahoe for a new job in the same casino that he was working for. She disappeared shortly after that. A Zodiac letter gave clues to her body, but it has never been found. The clues have been deciphered and the exact location indicated in the last Zodiac letter has been found. A few artifacts belonging to Lass were found in what appeared to be a shallow grave, but no body surfaced.
You put Kane’s relationship to Darlene and Stein, add the fact that Lass was a passenger when Kane and she drove to Lake Tahoe before her disappearance &n

Connolly

3/6/2018 05:00:39 pm

(Continuing)

and you have linkage. Also, Kane fits the Zodiac description given by witnesses to the Stein murder. He also fits the description of the man who flew with Hunter.

Rubislaw 32 link

3/6/2018 05:02:23 pm

Wow...that's quite a lot of ''if's'',''but's'' and ''maybe's'',Connolly.

But,who is to really say,definitively [?].

I have my personal suspicions on the Darlene Ferrin ''angle''.

But,believe that the Grant connection,will be Zodiac's undoing.

Because I believe that Zodiac knew Darlene,then I believe that it was an act of rage,by Zodiac...in that Darlene was not giving Zodiac,clear indications that she intended to stay quiet,on matters,concerning their past.

That being that Zodiac picked Darlene up,as a hitchhiker,in 1965,and they ended up together for a few days,or even weeks.And that probably,Darlene had witnessed at least one act of violence,by Zodiac.

If it is the case that Zodiac and Darlene knew each other,then her murder ''ought'' to have been the act that caught Zodiac out.

But,the FBI were new in on the case.The FBI were awarded jurisdiction,not just because it appeared ''now'',that Zodiac was a serial killer.But also,because the FBI were seen as the experts in Extortion and Racketeering.And of course,Zodiac was already showing signs that he was an Extortionist.

So,when,as I believe,that the FBI found that Darlene had criminal connections to a car theft ''scam'',the FBI immediately presumed this to be one of their specialist subjects...Racketeering.

This scam,I believe was between San Francisco and Chicago...and the FBI knew that they wouldn't have to seek permission,to cross borders,in their investigations.Further to this,that Darlene was the ''bag lady'' for this scam....and was given permission by criminal syndicate members,to do a little pot dealing,with the proceeds,on the side.

Trouble was,that Darlene started to help herself to all the cash,she was holding.Called ''skimming'' or ''creaming off the top'',in criminal parlance

So,at the time of Darlene's death,she knew that she might face the wrath of her criminal employees.Zodiac knew nothing of this,when he murdered her....but later found out,through local word of mouth.

The main point being,that the FBI took the Darlene Ferrin murder,in a completely different direction,from its reality...which was actually committed by a ''sometime'' local man [Zodiac].

So,the FBI made the worst possible of starts to the Zodiac case,as a whole....believing perhaps,that Zodiac was a ''Racketeering assassin'',who killed Darlene,because her embezzling criminal funds,entrusted to her.

But,I underline that what I have ventured ''is'' speculative,albeit plausible.

It will be the Grant link,that entraps Zodiac,though.

Connolly

3/6/2018 05:05:29 pm

Do you know who was in the Ott organization?

Rubislaw 32 link

3/6/2018 05:50:12 pm

I know little of it,Connolly.

But my ears are always wide open,on this truly enigmatic case.

As a general opinion,I am not inclined to think that Zodiac's,or anyone connected to Zodiac was ''about'' hard or serious drugs.

Small pot deals may have come into his life....but that he,himself,was quite a ''straight'' guy,with a ''conventional'' upbringing.

But,always interested to hear any viewpoints or possible ''angles''.

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