THE JOHN EDGAR HOOVER LETTER

4/22/2018

See handwritten original below

This correspondence, dated December 15th 1971, was mailed from Scottsville, New York and addressed to Mr J. Edgar Hoover, first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. In respect to the Zodiac timeline, it was sent 15 months after the disappearance of Donna Lass from Stateline, Nevada on September 6th 1970.

The communication claims to have evidence that with "the proper investigation would disclose the name and identity of the infamous Zodiac Killer of California". The author of this letter would receive a reply dated December 23rd 1971, informing him that the matter was not within the investigative jurisdiction of the FBI and he should advise the San Francisco, California Police Department of any information which pertains to the Zodiac Killer. Signed by Director, John Edgar Hoover.

The identity or signature of this individual is redacted, with a return address of some description, and therefore, determining its sincerity or otherwise is difficult to ascertain. One would like to think this was an extremely concerned citizen or somebody from an official agency, frustrated enough to mail a letter to the FBI offices (handwritten letter below).

SAC - Special Agent in Charge......... Bureau of Files contain no record of this correspondent

Tracers wrote this on the Zodiac Killer Tapatalk forum: "I did find this old reference to a letter: In a letter from J..Edgar Hoover dated 11/30/70 to Senator Karl E. Mundt concerning his interest in finding Donna A. Lass, he says, "In an effort to be of assistance, a search of our Identification Division files was conducted but I regret to tell you no indication of the whereabouts was disclosed. A missing person notice was previously placed in file in behalf of Senator George McGovern. In view of your interest I am having a notification added to the effect that any information we may receive will also be forwarded to you. We do not, of course, have the authority to conduct an active investigation in the absence of a violation of a federal statute within our jurisdiction".

Senator George Stanley McGovern was a U.S. Representative and U.S. Senator born in Avon, South Dakota, approximately 100 miles from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, which may reflect his interest in the case.

Another communication in the form of a Christmas card was mailed to the sister of Donna Lass, Mary Pilker, in Sioux Falls, South Dakota on December 27th 1974. The Christmas card read "Holiday Greetings and Best Wishes for a Happy New Year", followed by the handwriting "Best Wishes, St Donna & Guardian of the Pines". It is unknown whether this card had sinister connotations in respect to where Donna Lass may be buried (somewhere in between the pines), or whether it is just misguided support. There are, however, some similarities in the handwriting of the John Edgar Hoover letter and the Christmas card mailed to Mary Pilker (shown below). Handwriting comparisons in the Zodiac case are the topic of much debate as they are extremely subjective - and as such - should always be used in conjunction with other evidence.

John Edgar Hoover (January 1, 1895 – May 2, 1972) was an American detective and the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of the United States. He was appointed as the director of the Bureau of Investigation — the FBI's predecessor — in 1924 and was instrumental in founding the FBI in 1935, where he remained director until his death in 1972 at the age of 77. Hoover has been credited with building the FBI into a larger crime-fighting agency than it was at its inception and with instituting a number of modernizations to police technology, such as a centralized fingerprint file and forensic laboratories.
Wikipedia.

Drew

4/22/2018 02:32:28 pm

Interesting piece Richard. I'm not sure I have anything to really further the discussion here, but I am struck by the mystery author's (to Hoover) cursive lower case r's that look like printed capital Rs. No big theory just an odd tendency that I believe could be found in any of this individual's cursive exemplars. While it is mostly the slant of the writing that seems a match to the Pilker card author, if this author to the FBI was trying to disguise his handwriting when he wrote the Pilker card that highly identifiable (to someone who knew his handwriting) trait would be the first thing he would try to hide.

Richard

4/22/2018 03:14:12 pm

I just thought I'd introduce something new, because it was noticeable the final letter (Red Phantom) of 1974 the handwriting had changed dramatically. So it wouldn't be unusual if the Zodiac had also changed his handwriting for the Pilker letter. This link was worth a look, however remote. But in truth I'm totally unconvinced by any of the 1974 letters. The Exorcist letter possibly, but a big fat palm print slap bang in the middle of the letter, is unusual to say the least, but the SLA, Badlands and Red Phantom letter are pretty lame efforts for a man who's ego had been away for 3 years. The SLA letter is totally pointless, the Badlands letter isn't saying a lot, and neither is the Red Phantom letter. They seem rather concerned with reviewing films and newspaper columnists.
The capital R's definitely caught my eye as well, but as you inferred disguising your handwriting isn't too difficult.

Bill link

9/10/2018 03:47:28 pm

I claim I have solved Zodiac. The my name is cipher RUAN DODY DIARY. You can friend me on Facebook and I will show you evidence

Karen_C

9/10/2018 04:02:54 pm

http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/topic/25041-new-poll-numbers/

:-)

Rubislaw 32 link

4/22/2018 03:11:05 pm

Excellent presentation,Richard.

Previously,I couldn't get my head around the writing employed,for Mary Pike....apart from the short word ''of''....which I found spooky.

But,now looking at the Scottsville letter,one can,perhaps see some interesting comparisons.The capital ''D'' immediately,anyway.

If anything,at the very least,they illustrate that Zodiac just might have had the gift,to very his handwriting,even more,than we previously thought.

Thanks again,and will spend some more time,analysing comparisons.

Richard

4/22/2018 03:27:53 pm

Yes, the D, M and S definitely caught my eye, even though I'm not a great advocate of handwriting comparisons to prove a suspect. If you find enough suspects you will inevitably find some correlations. When I was young (a long time ago) we were always taught handwriting at school in how to fashion letters. I have noticed how handwriting of the masses has evolved down the years. People wrote in a noticeably different style in Victorian times, to people in the mid 1900s, to the rather less creative style of today. Handwriting evolves just like music, fashion and morals.
The only reason I brought this up, was because one wrote to Lass' sister and one wrote to the authorities (FBI in this case) claiming to reveal the Zodiac effectively. The Zodiac certainly wouldn't be above either.

Richard

4/22/2018 03:29:09 pm

But it's extremely unlikely.

Rubislaw 32 link

4/22/2018 04:43:51 pm

I can understand your scepticism,Richard.

''We'' can move too far away,from the ''nub'',like a close to irrefutable reference,in a letter,to a real crime event.That's when we really believe a correspondence is authentic.

But,no matter what we think,it will be forensics which will make the real irrefutable disclosures.

I am ''mixed'' about the 1974 correspondences.There is ''evidence'',that Count Marco had elected to bait Zodiac,to an extent,with subliminal messaging,with regard to ''The Exorcist''.So,Zodiac's response,appears to serve as credulity,over what is known,as the ''Count Marco'' letter.

Spinelli was probably fired by the editor,for slipping in the ''Exorcist'' comment,without his boss's notice.Unlike Avery,Spinelli didn't really want anything to do with a weirdo,such as Zodiac.

Just good to ''cover all bases'',before coming to an opinion.

Rubislaw 32 link

4/22/2018 05:50:22 pm

While I have it to hand,a part of an article,written by Marc Spinelli,in his ''Count Marco'' column.

This,on July 1st 1974,an article entitled : ''You wives don't own your husbands'' :

Excerpt :

''....You may possess a thing or an object,and you yourself might be possessed,as in the film ' The Exorcist '.But you can't possess another person....''.

One week later,on July 8th 1974,Zodiac's ''Count Marco'' letter arrives at the San Francisco Chronicle.

The ''Red Phantom'' red,with rage.

Richard

4/23/2018 12:16:58 am

That is certainly a good spot on Marc H Spinelli and Exorcist, especially the timing. I'll have to look at this further. The connection is definitely there.

KayElleSF

4/23/2018 02:52:58 am

Well, this sure as hell sounds like Z and his shenanigans. I believe he was plagued with a compulsive need to write fake letters (in various forms) to the police and press on an ongoing basis.

I strongly feel he wrote to The Vallejo Times Herald in the weeks after Betty Lou and David were killed. There's a thread on ZKS where commenter Joku discovered some Opinion Letters published in the VTH soon after the murders. These missives are about Betty and David and how they will be missed, etc. but they reek of Zodiac to me. Of course, no one knew of "The Zodiac" at the time so they wouldn't arouse any suspicion. One is signed "A proud friend"...I mean come on! They're written in a sort of banal tone with a hint of sarcasm...if you listen for it. I don't think the letters were written by schoolmates as I don't see teenagers writing to local newspapers, generally. That's something older people tend to do, imo. I'm convinced they're written by Z. Which is beyond creepy, if true.

The post on ZKS is titled "Letters to the Editor of Bay Area Papers" under the "Zodiac Case General Discussion" heading. They are near the end of the 20 page post.

Check them out, if you haven't seen them already. I would love to know what you all think. They might make a good post for this blog, actually.

Anyway, thanks to Richard...as always!

Richard

4/23/2018 05:52:30 am

Thanks for the link KayElle, I haven't seen that thread before. I'll have a look.

KayElleSF

4/23/2018 02:55:05 pm

Of course, Richard! :)

Richard

4/23/2018 06:39:45 am

Just thought of something quirky Rubislaw. I suggested the Dripping Pen card may have been referencing Lake Berryessa, because it was metaphorically dripping blood after he wrote on the car door, hence why he washed his pen. The pen shown is not a marker pen, but a fountain pen. Fountain pens of old contained a reservoir for the ink. Lake Berryessa was a man-made reservoir. Quirky eh!

Rubislaw 32 link

4/23/2018 07:25:31 am

Yes Richard....I struggle to put that image,you constructed,of putting the Dripping pen card together with the Bleeding Knife,out of my head.

From an introduction to Zodiac's infamous ''340'' cipher....to a hotel room in Sacramento.

It's beginning to look like Zodiac was a very ''busy boy'' with a pen,in the months of November and December 1969.

And,that's not even counting his ''sob sob'' story to Melvin Belli.

Oh how the clinical psychologists rallied,in Zodiac's defence.

Rubislaw 32 link

4/23/2018 07:00:39 am

Thank you also,KayElleSF.

As far as we are aware,this ''extortion by persecution'' seems to have started with Joseph Bates.Sending hoax messages to newspapers,is just a variation of the same theme.

We may only have seen the tip of the iceberg,from Zodiac.

Recently,I uncovered ''telling'' evidence of more messages to Joan Webster's father George....by someone that is increasingly looking like Zodiac,all along.

Often,David and Betty Lou are overlooked,with a connection,in this respect.A ''single'' double murder,had yet to be recognised as the work of a serial killer,let alone the Zodiac.

As you intimate,a compulsion for ''dancing on graves'' seems to have played a large part of the overall thrill,for him.

Schadenfreude for dessert [?].

KayElleSF

4/23/2018 03:32:39 pm

I wholeheartedly agree, Rubi! Z seemed to get a thrill out of residual taunting...even in it's subtler forms. Obviously, it's hard to tell for sure if he wrote a specific letter, but we know he was devious and loved to play mind games. The fake letters are inside jokes to himself and mostly definitely "dancing on graves", as you say.

This is why I think it's entirely possible that Z did stalked some of his victims before the murders, and their families afterwards (I believe most people's names & addresses were listed in public phone directories at the time so it wouldn't be hard to do). The murders themselves were just part of a continuum (if that makes any sense). I don't believe he stalked all of his victims but his behavior with respect to the known letters indicates it was in his personality to do so.

Also, I'm with you on the known and suspected letters being just the tip of the iceberg. Which keeps leading me to the notion of his everyday surroundings. I picture notepads, pens, partially sown costumes (along with guns, knives etc.) at least somewhat visible in his living space. I keep thinking he had to live alone or with a blind elderly parent because who wouldn't have noticed his Santa's Workshop of horrors?

Finally, I want to believe these possessions are still out there somewhere, maybe in an attic or basement waiting to be discovered. One can only hope!

Rubislaw 32 link

4/23/2018 06:16:52 pm

Thanks for your great feedback,KayElleSF,and for some striking observations.

My feelings are that Zodiac was a Vallejo part-time resident,commuting to Benicia,for work.His family home,being greater L.A.He had elected to be in SF vicinity on his own,but his employers had assigned him a family size house,with double garage.

The precise nature and motive,for stalking,is unclear.Mostly,I feel,to gain information,as investment for future nefarious acts.But,he might have gotten bored,on occasion,and fancied a bit of intimidation,just for the sport of it.

A cad and a bounder,the likes of which,the world has rarely witnessed.

Yes indeed,we live for his day of repentance.

Carl Karas link

4/23/2018 08:48:19 am

The two handwriting samples look completely different to my eye. The Christmas card handwriting is that of an artist. The letters are beautifully formed. It is the most notable thing about it. This was someone very talented- wonderful hand to eye coordination. The other is much more mundane. I'm not a handwriting expert but I did teach freehand drawing for many years. Doesn't disprove that one or the other of the subject wasn't involved or in the know. The Christmas card is one of the most mysterious examples of any of the letters- to me

Judith

4/23/2018 09:05:26 am

Good job Richard. There too many similar distinctive characteristics to ignore. But Zodiac did not write in cursive. This looks like a female wrote this. It was reported to me that Peter had female accomplices. One of his past girlfriends is Darlinjune Cromer. She is incarcerated in California for killing a little boy. They also went to High school together. I have thought about writing to her before to see if she would reveal any knowledge about Peter's crimes or the Zodiac, but am concerned for my safety. Perhaps you could write to her Richard, see if she writes back and compare her handwriting matches these items you have posted.

Howard_Miller

4/24/2018 04:35:46 pm

Very interesting! All of the Zodiac's writing has a distinct feminine streak. I have often pondered if he was the killer and he had an accomplice, probably female, who was the correspondent. Food for thought!

Howard_Miller

4/24/2018 04:32:58 pm

Wow, looks to me like the Zodiac could have penned this, using cursive, and perhaps in his more regular style. His printed letters always look forced to me, and I suspect he either held his pen on a high angle, or put the paper on a high angle, to alter his style. It always seems to me as if he did not normally use printing in his everyday writing, except perhaps to write addresses on envelopes, as is the fashion with many people.

Rubislaw 32 link

4/28/2018 05:20:50 pm

Of interest that you felt that the Zodiac's writing had a distinct feminine streak,Howard.

I had a feeling,rightly or wrongly,that the writer of Mary Piker's card could well be female.The capital ''G'' of Guardian is as fanciful,as I have ever seen,and find it difficult to believe that a man would create something so pretty.

Perhaps of interest that an interview with Sherwood Morrill,revealed a few ''trade secrets'' of a Documents Examiner,including complicated analysis of pen inks.

Surprisingly,he revealed that the first suspect,of a received letter,is the recipient,themselves.Hence,one presumes that Mary Piker's handwriting was checked out first.

Morrill added : ''The most obscene letters are written by women,and often to themselves.''.

5/22/2018 03:33:02 pm

We got some things right with our profile of zodiac surely but some things are definitely wrong. There may have been a team or at least a duo - like a married couple, working together.

Lots of serial killer couples in history. Bonnie and Clyde the most famous. And, the "Sunset Strip Killers". Also, Michelle and David Knotek. And, Judith and Alvin Neelley. Happily Married.

There is a lot of misconceptions of serial killers as being loners, and individuals. As anti-social, and shy. But, actually this lonely serial killer is a myth. The truth is that they are the exact opposite of quiet. Look at any one of the thousands of examples that we have. Ted Bundy, Ed Guin, David Berkowitz and Dennis Rader. Very aggressive, loud and social. Anything but the image the cops and the media present us with. They are very outgoing. Type "A" personalities.

So, as they say "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.".

Corey Hagler

5/27/2018 01:11:00 pm

Does anyone know if the Zodiac referred to liking or participating in horse gambling? Maybe his connection to South Lake Tahoe?

Toots

1/2/2020 09:06:58 am

Could the mailing from Scottsville, NY be a hint to look at Scotland?

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THE JOHN EDGAR HOOVER LETTER

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