THE HEARST FAMILY CONNECTION [PT2]

1/21/2019

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We are coming towards the end of the series of articles examining the 1974 letters. This article will be a continuation of 'The Hearst Family Connection' with one final piece of the jigsaw regarding the May 8th 1974 Citizen card to look at. Here is a brief recap of the previous article: "This all began on February 3rd 1974 with the S.L.A letter, postmarked "U.S. Postal Service, CA 913 PM 3 FEB 1974". This was the eve of the kidnapping of Patricia Campbell Hearst, which occurred on February 4th 1974. The letter signed off with "a friend". On February 10th 1974, a Symbionese Liberation Army member mailed a typed letter to the Hearst family at 233 W. Santa Inez Ave, Hillsborough, California, postmarked "U.S. Postal Service, CA 940 PM 10 FEB 1974". It too was signed off with "A friend".

The article argued that the Citizen card had been targeted at William Randolph Hearst Sr, who had previously forbade his newspapers running any ads for the Orson Welles Citizen Kane movie, released in Los Angeles on May 8th 1941. Hence the context of the card and the signing off with "A citizen".

The day after the Symbionese Liberation Army mailed the February 10th 1974 typed communication to the Hearst family, another typed communication arrived stating:
Hearst Family,
(Second Commandment: "For I the Lord as a jealous God and visit the sins of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.)
No, we are not religious nuts, but we hate you for your father's part in starting the Spanish-American War, and also for his later, cheap liason with the trollop Marion Davies."
Our male ancestors were killed in your father's war and their wives were left with pensions of $25 to $50 a month for life. We wonder how you can hold up your heads in decent society, and why your contemporaries can stomach your presence. Our once proud families were destroyed by your father's war.....which he started to boost his circulation
HERE IS WHAT WE DEMAND;
Before we release your daughter Patricia, you must show proper humility by acknowledging the guilt of William Randolph Hearst (in regard to starting yellow journalism and instigating the Spanish-American War. You must publicly beg the forgiveness of your country. This must be done on ALL media and must be expressed in terms of abject humility.
When we are convinced you are showing abject humility for the sins of your father and his papers, we will release Patricia, whose only sin is that she carries the genes of William Randolph Hearst.
The SLA

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The February 11th 1974 Hearst letter focused on the "yellow journalism" employed by William Randolph Hearst regarding the Spanish-American War and called for his forgiveness to be "expressed with abject humility". The following purported Zodiac communication on May 8th 1974 "expressed consternation at the lack of concern for public sensibilities" and demanded some action regarding the "yellow journalism" of murder-glorification that featured in the paper. Yellow journalism is described as exaggerations of news events, scandal-mongering, or sensationalism, designed to boost a newspapers circulation and increase sales - which includes the sensationalizing of murder. Exactly what the Citizen letter was calling out.

"The term was coined in the mid-1890s to characterize the sensational journalism that used some yellow ink in the circulation war between Joseph Pulitzer's New York World and William Randolph Hearst's New York Journal. The battle peaked from 1895 to about 1898, and historical usage often refers specifically to this period. Both papers were accused by critics of sensationalizing the news in order to drive up circulation, although the newspapers did serious reporting as well. An English magazine in 1898 noted, "All American journalism is not 'yellow', though all strictly 'up-to-date' yellow journalism is American" Wikipedia.

"During the Gilded Age, yellow journalism flourished, using fake interviews, false experts and bogus stories to spark sympathy and rage as desired. Joseph Pulitzer’s New York World published exaggerated crime dramas to sell papers. In the 1890s, plutocrats like Randolph Hearst and his Morning Journal used exaggeration to help spark the Spanish-American War. When Hearst’s correspondent in Havana wired that there would be no war, Hearst — the inspiration for Orson Welles' "Citizen Kane" — famously responded: “You furnish the pictures, I’ll furnish the war.” Hearst published fake drawings of Cuban officials strip searching American women — and he got his war". Politico.

We now have a May 8th 1974 Citizen card mailed on the same day as the Los Angeles release date of Citizen Kane, calling for advertisements not to be run about the Badlands movie, just like William Randolph Hearst insisted his paper do with the Orson Welles movie Citizen Kane, and an insistence in both cases that "yellow journalism" was not acceptable, beginning on February 11th 1974 and ending on May 8th 1974.

We could include the January 29th 1974 Exorcist letter featuring the much sensationalized William Friedkin movie "The Exorcist", in which the author plays down its impact, claiming it "the best satirical comedy that I have ever seen." In the final correspondence of 1974, on July 8th, the author complains about the "superiority complex" of Count Marco, who gave outrageous advice to women in a San Francisco Chronicle column geared towards sensationalism - the presentation of stories in a way that is intended to provoke public interest or excitement, at the expense of accuracy. The emphasis exhibited by the author of these three communications, was of somebody clearly irked by the newspapers coverage of events current and past, in the form of "yellow journalism." It certainly brings a new perspective to the phrase "red with rage."

Shawn

1/21/2019 05:51:27 am

"We now have a May 8th 1974 Citizen card mailed on the same day as the Los Angeles release date of Citizen Kane, calling for advertisements not to be run about the Badlands movie, just like William Randolph Hearst insisted his paper do with the Orson Welles movie Citizen Kane, and an insistence in both cases that "yellow journalism" was not acceptable, beginning on February 11th 1974 and ending on May 8th 1974."

Maybe I missed something. Why is the Los Angeles release of the "Badlands" movie on May 8th important (besides cut the ads) when the "Badlands" card is mailed from Alameda 945 area code (near San Francisco) to the Chronicle?

Would not it be more important if the "Badlands" card was mailed to L.A.?

Richard

1/21/2019 06:55:18 am

The Badlands movie wasn't released in Los Angeles on May 8th, it was released in Los Angeles on March 29th.

Shawn

1/21/2019 10:40:02 am

Yea sorry, I mis-stated what I was meaning to say.

The gist was why didn't Zodiac or SLA? mail the May 8th "badlands" to LA or from LA if it had anything to do with "Citizen Kane" opening on May 8th in LA.

It was mailed from Alameda to the Chron with a postmark of May 8th.

Maybe that makes sense. Sorry.

Richard

1/21/2019 10:53:54 am

They didn't mail it to LA because that would have defeated the object of addressing it to William Randolph Hearst/ Hearst corporation. It may not have been mailed from LA because maybe they weren't there that day. In all likelihood Shawn, as you alluded to before, it's probably a coincidence. I saw it, so added that feature, but it isn't the crux of the overall story.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/21/2019 07:50:20 pm

Just great to see another letter,uncovered,Richard,that can only assist in putting pieces together,that might fit.

Though some might still choose to remain,in an ''undecided'' camp.

First impressions ,for me are,that it is Zodiac,as with the Dear Hearst Family/A friend typed letter.

The ''scribe'' pushes the ''religious element'' a little too far,and tries to give a ''history lesson'',simply concentrating on attempting to humiliate Mr.Hearst.

What would be in the SLA's interest,if Mr.Hearst did as ''they'' demanded ? We,the public,would know,anyway,that he had been coerced.

But,a ''clincher'' is ''..the trollop Marian Davies.''At the time of this liaison,it may have been the case,that actress,Ms.Davies was seen as a ''trollop''.But moving forward to 1974,they were changed times.

Hearst's father was in a loveless marriage,and,both he and his wife agreed to part amicably,without divorce,and his wife moving to the East Coast,where she lived out her days,as a busy philanthropist.

Hearst's father and Ms.Davies had a daughter,whom they had adopted by a couple,who were close friends,with their daughter holidaying with her biological parents,on a regular basis.

The ''situation'' was merely kept from ''public gaze''.

The SLA members were about lesbianism,inter-racial marriage and free love.Hardly the ingredients that would prompt them,to call Marian Davies,a ''trollop'' [?].

So,the letter is from a hoaxer,for me...and ''probably'',the Zodiac.

But ''Early Days''....and thanks again for posting it.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/22/2019 07:44:15 am

Just on the matter of ''Yellow Journalism'',and its British equivalent,''Tabloid Journalism''.

William Randolph Hearst was accused of ''Yellow Journalism'',or more specifically ''deliberate sensationalism''....but this,in relationship to crime stories.

Historians tend to assess that,Hearst was no more,nor less choosing of his newspapers words,in describing Spanish colonialist tyranny in Cuba,than any other newspaper.

The ''Tyranny'' that fanned the flames of outrage,by the American people,at ''a perceived'' Spanish atrocities.

In examining the letter,Richard,albeit ''prejudice''....it does seem that the writer,would have come from the Southern States,whom,are ''historically'',more likely to have placed blame,on newspaper magnates,like Hearst.

I'll just do a ''Gareth Penn'',and suggest an equilateral triangle,with its two base points,as San Antonio and Houston.

Where does the third point,lie ?

Answer : ''Hillsboro''

Coincidence ?

Yes,but there is more to it than this.This,I believe,is the ''Texas Triangle'' that explains the story of the Zodiac.And,how he will eventually be exposed.

And some of you thought that Gareth Penn was ''eccentric'',at the very least [?].

Tom1

1/23/2019 07:33:32 am

I are you implying a Zodiac connection to Hillsborough? Randall Clemons has an article about such a connection and it relates to something I experienced. It spurred my interest in learning as much as I can about the Z Man. I have been reading this blog since I read Clemons article.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/23/2019 08:30:32 am

Well Tom 1....I'll have to remain ''cryptic'',to avoid seeming ''sensationalist''.

One ''Hillsborough'' is the then residency of Patty's father,for whom the Zodiac ''may'' have been extorting [...as opposed to the SLA,themselves..]

Another ''Hillsborough'' is the name of a long running public enquiry,pertaining to a stadium disaster,in England.

Another ''Hillsboro'' is a town in Texas.Check out a village,nearby,by the name of ''Bynum''.Bynum is the name of a large police operation,taking place in Scotland,and for almost four years.

Enough said.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/24/2019 03:48:25 am

So as not to be seen,as too mean on information,here is a general fact about ''Bynum''.

Place names :

There are 6 ''Bynums'' in the U.S.A.

There is one ''Bynum'' in Ireland.

There are no ''Bynums'' in Great Britain.

1/22/2019 11:13:08 am

...the assassination of William McKinley... shot on September 6, 1901, critics accused Hearst's Yellow Journalism of driving Leon Czolgosz to the deed. Hearst did not know of Bierce's column, and claimed to have pulled Brisbane's after it ran in a first edition, but the incident would haunt him for the rest of his life...the assassination of William McKinley. When McKinley was shot on September 6, 1901, Leon Czolgosz was executed seven weeks later. From Wikipedia

13 moonth calendar Doomsday

1/22/2019 11:20:38 am

Rubislaw 32

You lost me - who was the eccentric?

Rubislaw 32 link

1/22/2019 01:10:28 pm

Well....Mr.Penn,specifically,BB.

Gareth Penn was/is a gifted linguist and archivist,specialising in Germanic languages.

He is not,nor has ever been,a mathematician.And,no matter how many times one reads his ''17 Times'' book....I vow anyone,regardless of their education....to make head or tail of the contents of the book.

And yet,''somehow'' he hit on to the notion that the Joan Webster case,is related to the case of the Zodiac Killer.Then,''blotted his copybook'' by pointing the finger of guilt,at Harvard lecturer,Mr. O'Hare.

You don't have to take my word for it.....but be in no doubt that,the murder of Joan Webster ''is'' related to the case of the Zodiac.And further,I would claim,is being investigated,as such.

Now,like the case of Cheri Jo Bates,the Joan Webster case may,alone,be seen as ''extortion only'' related.

But,how Mr.Penn managed to find a link,in the first place,remains a close to ''complete mystery''.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/22/2019 12:52:04 pm

Yes,I don't doubt that there was an element of truth about these ''historic'' accusations,BB....with regard to the term ''Yellow Journalism''.

As historians point out,though,the largest circulations of readership,of newspapers,such as Hearst's,were mostly confined to cities,like New York.

Those ''folk'' in the South,only got to hear about what was being written....as opposed to actually having ready access,to the newspapers,themselves.

So,when States,such as Texas,started to lose young men's lives,to a war not fully understood,the focus of blame moved to ''hearsay'' sabre rattling text,from newspapers,such as Hearst's.

Naturally,the ''Yellow'' in ''Yellow Journalism'' had some inference,to the colour of ''cowardice''.

And,the accusations came,predominantly,from those parts of the nation,who sacrificed most.

1/22/2019 02:59:15 pm

Ya - this Penn is a mystery. I don't have any understanding of how he has become such a high level suspect. Except for all the indirect ways of pointing at himself. And, his confession letter is the dumbest thing I have ever read. All he would have to do is - directly say I am not the Zodiac! But, he continues to play word games. Why? If he has the greatest mind of our time as his many top I.Q. memberships seem to indicate, then why not actually demonstrate that superior mind by solving the Zodiac puzzle.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/22/2019 04:47:15 pm

I didn't really know much about Penn,until I started involving myself,in the Webster case.And,that was after I examined the Z263,solved in part,by the FBI.

There are ''apparent'' similarities,with the Bates case,particularly on potential extortion.

L.E. really don't suspect Penn,but at one time,they had to be sure,and did investigate him.Any ''leftover'' suspicions,are largely down,to his ''eccentricity'' status.

The two main differences,between the Bates case and Webster case,is....firstly,geographic ''disparity''...the distance of the width of North America.

And secondly,that Cheri Jo's body,was found,within hours,with Joan's taking nearly nine years.

Personally,I believe that ''The Zodiac'' may have murdered Joan,but did not murder Cheri Jo.

But ,''almost certainly'',extortion,in both cases,related to the Zodiac.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/23/2019 01:10:13 am

.....And,lo and behold,here ''we'' are,with this topic in particular,examining the possibility now,that the Zodiac may have attempted to humiliate Patty Hearst's father,over the kidnapping of his daughter....by menacing means.

When,of course,the inference is at least,that the chief similarity,between the Bates case and Webster case is,that the Zodiac attempted to humiliate Cheri Jo's father [Joseph],and Joan's father [George].....by menacing means.

The probable extortion perpetrated upon Joseph and George,had occurred to me,before.....but suddenly [....and thank you,Richard...],we have a possible ''third'' father of a daughter,in the spotlight,as a victim of a crime,of a particular kind.

Well,I'll be darned....

Rubislaw 32 link

1/23/2019 02:11:29 am

.......and,something else,''for the pot'',Richard.

'' R.A.'' [Hearst].

Now,where have we seen that,before ?

The ''signature'' of the August 26th 1976 ''Deep Real Estate'' personal ad,....no less.

Perhaps,''edging'' the probability back,to the ad being the concoction,of the Zodiac,himself....again [?].

I wonder if that personal ad,appeared in ''both'' the Chronicle ''and'' the Examiner [?].

Lafferty believed that the ad ''needed'' to be in the Chronicle,because Mr.Grant was a daily reader of that newspaper.

1/23/2019 08:56:18 am

Ten years ago the Craigslist Ripper aka LISK taunted his 16 + female victims parents too.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/23/2019 02:26:57 pm

Just on the matter of the Joan Webster case....allusions to investigating Gareth Penn,are made,in the Zodiac Killer FBI files.It appears that the FBI were satisfied with Penn's explanation,of how he became involved,and comment that Penn's work [ 17 Times,plus...] was influenced,by pre-conceived instincts...that,in effect,Penn ''moulded'' his work,for a ''fit''.

Not so ''unusual'' perhaps [?].For ''we'' all might be guilty of that [?].

The problem with assessing the FBI's ''assessment'' on the Joan Webster case is,that it has been ''spread'' over the files,and pages do not fit in the files,in any sort of time chronological order.

Whether this,is down to incompetence,or a deliberate decision,when compiling the files,for public consumption,remains a mystery.

At some point,I will isolate handwriting in the FBI files,that I believe may be attributed,to the Zodiac.The content alludes to then forthcoming LE meetings,to discuss the Webster case.Eve Carson,Joan Webster's sister-in-law,believes that the writing belongs to Joan's father,ex-CIA employee,George,who made ''damned sure'' that he was never left ''out of the loop'',with ongoing investigations,of his then ''disappeared'' daughter,at that time.

Right now,I'm going to examine,any basis,for believing that that,R.A.Hearst,or his then late father,had links to the KKK.Even,if only,on a basis of gossip.

Who is ''The Imperial Wizard'' ??

Rubislaw 32 link

1/23/2019 05:42:09 pm

Some research :

The original ''Imperial Wizard'' was 1924 KKK Nation Leader,Hiram Evans.This was at the height of KKK's popularity,and as a political force.

Political success was short-lived,however,mostly down to their anti-Catholicism being laid bare,with potential voters.

Racially,the KKK was largely ''Nordic Race'' inspired,with a smaller strain,''The Royal Riders of the Red Robe'',associated with those of ''Anglo-Saxon'' heritage.

In the West of America,''King Kleagle'' Luther I Powell,was founder,and unofficial leader of Washington State,California,Oregon,Idaho,Alaska and Montana.

Powell's appointed ''official leaders were ''Cyclops'' John A Jeffrey,a judge....and ''Kiligrapp'' William C Ott,a lawyer.

In the 1920's William R Hearst's newspaper,the ''Seattle Post Intelligencer'' opposed Luther I Powell.Hearst was a Catholic.

However,in the 1930's William R Hearst became a staunch supporter of the Nazi Party,seeing it as a means to rid the nation of Communism.

Randolph A Hearst,William's son,appears to have renounced his Catholicism,but married a Catholic,Catherine,having 5 daughters,including Patty,who were brought up Catholics,with their mother's wishes.

Catholicism,in general then,precluded the Hearst family having any associations with the KKK.But,did have ''right-wing'' leanings.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/24/2019 10:40:00 am

With this ''new'' letter,that Richard has found,perhaps we might be too quick,in focusing on Patty's father,Randolph Apperson Hearst,alone [?].

Patty Hearst's mother Catherine Campbell Hearst,was a politically active Conservative,and personal supporter of the political rise of Ronald Reagan.

Catherine was also a regent,on the board of Berkeley University,where she opposed the rights of known Communists,to speak,on campus....and,is believed to have been,largely responsible for having lecturer and Black activist,Angela Davis,fired from her post.

Following the demise of the SLA,Catherine fought to have her daughter,Patty,pardoned for her perceived role in the organisation.This,she succeeded in doing,in 1979,with President Jimmy Carter's approval.

But the pressure that Catherine is thought to have brought,upon herself,destroyed her marriage to R.A.Hearst.

She retired to Beverly Hills,finding the memories of San Francisco,too painful to bear.

Catherine died in February 1999,aged 81.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/24/2019 11:01:09 am

A ''possible'' angle here is,that in kidnapping Patty Hearst,the SLA always knew that ''ransom money'' had potential opportunity,in financing their cause.

But,how did the SLA,come to focus on Patty,as a target ?

With Catherine's political and educational ''high profile'',one can see,perhaps,that it could have actually have been Patty's mother,who blamed herself,for her daughter being a target of abduction.

And,that this ''new'' letter uncovered,is a ''rant'' at R.A.Hearst and his late father....by a hoaxer,who was actually ignorant of the reality [?].

With a possibility/probability of ''that hoaxer'',being the Zodiac.

''Someone'',anyway,who held ''Southern'' traditional prejudices,against William Randolph Hearst,going back to 1898.

My Name Is Mine

1/24/2019 08:01:40 pm

It is certainly interesting contemplating possible historical connections to Zodiac. Let us face facts:- In the late 1960s, San Francisco and parts of LA were awash with alcohol, vice, petty crime, drugs, racial tension, the Black Panther movement, counter-culture movement, hippies, and a large number of obscure religious and political extremist groups. Many of these did not see eye to eye on issues. Then there were the cops, some trying to maintain law and order, but many officers were not saints either, because SFPD and other outlying county Sheriff's offices had some very corrupt elements in their ranks. The cops either found themselves on the retreat from street and gang violence, or they were forced to take extreme action in their own counter measures, to the point of bashing or clubbing civilians. San Francisco was already doing a pretty good job at self-destruction, and then Zodiac comes along like some lone manifestation of all the city's insanity and wrongs. So I think a lot of things may seem connected on the surface, when really they are all just part of the endemic social anarchy and crisis happening in San Francisco and LA at that time. I don't know if anyone has ever seen the murder map for San Francisco in 1969? It is well worth taking a look at. The Stine killing was only one dot on a map of many dozens of dots. Surely we cannot blame every dot on the Zodiac?

1/25/2019 11:44:09 am

murders that occurred in San Fran 1969?

https://zodiacrevisited.com/interesting-map-of-san-francisco-homicides/

Tom1

1/25/2019 07:01:40 am

Thank you so much for putting an historical perspectve to these activities. I was living there and then, and other posters have somewhat laundered and softened their statements concerning the events of that era. My view is “radically” different from the sanitized versions common to this site.

Shawn

1/25/2019 07:19:45 am

Should be noted...

The Hearst family bought the San Francisco Chronicle in the year 2000.

The Hearst family owned the San Francisco Examiner from the late 1880's until the year 2000.

The San Francisco Examiner and Chronicle had a Joint Operating Agreement during the Zodiac Killer years.

Only one Zodiac letter was mailed to the Hearst Owned San Francisco Examiner. The Aug. 4th, 1969 Proof letter.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/25/2019 08:21:37 am

I think that,over this highlighting of the ''probable'' [since officially claimed] four 1974 letters,Richard....plus these 3,in particular,''extras'' [...since the ''insects'' one must be ''legit'' SLA [?]...],we see what we might be a confronting[....plus BB's valid points..].

In effect,a ''serial extortionist''.It comes down to what extent are we persuaded that ''all'',''some'',or even ''none'',are by the hand of the Zodiac.Also,introducing the notion that,the Zodiac may have been a more prolific typist,than previously thought.

That,in effect,he may have been,quite a ''mixer and matcher''.

So often is the case that,the crimes involving blood spillage,are found difficult to dismiss...and the knowledge that these are the crimes,for which he should be punished.

But,I suspect that,the sheer ''paper trail'',he left behind,including ciphers and puzzles,must surely find him out,in the end [?].If Law enforcement,had known this,from the start,he would already have been apprehended.

Now,as far as I can see,''LE'''s only hope,is,that he can be prosecuted on,at least,one murder.

Where can that come from ?

All too ''ironic'' that we need to hope that he killed more,beyond Paul Stine.

But what sets the Zodiac,apart from other serial killers,I believe,is that,he was the first,and genuine ''serial extortionist''.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/25/2019 08:43:36 am

A valid point made,Shaun.

These ''new'' letters uncovered suggest,that Zodiac may have ''merely'' seen an opportunity.....and ''touted'',for example,''murkier'' sides to the Hearst dynasty.

''Over the piece'',Zodiac must have admitted to himself,that he held no real grudge,and with the press,in general.For ''they'' were his ''vehicle''....his ''facilitator'',in putting across,his most deadly weapon,of all :

''Pen and Ink,to cause a 'stink'.''.

1/25/2019 09:00:09 am

Richard
If that is true - what Shawn is saying
then that's a tell - as they say in poker

Richard

1/25/2019 10:02:23 am

Yes

Rubislaw 32 link

1/25/2019 05:33:51 pm

Here's a [perhaps] interesting thought :

July 31st 1969 - Letter to Hearst's SF Examiner

August 4th 1969 - Debut Zodiac Letter to Hearst's SF Examiner

Then,move forward to 1990 :

September 1990 - Celebrity Cypher to Vallejo Times Herald

December 1990 - Xmas Eureka Card to SF Chronicle

Two 1990 correspondences,both I claim,with Paul Avery,in mind,but neither,to Hearst's SF Examiner....with Avery in the employment of the SF Examiner,at that time.

Move forward to January 2001 :

The SF Chronicle,last month [December 14th 2018],produce the ''2001 New Years Card'',in an article by Hearst employee,Kevin Fagan,

By 2001,the SF Chronicle is now in the ownership of the Hearst Corporation.

Inside the card,a claimed ''Zodiac'',starts '' Mr.Editor ''....the exact same '' Mr.Editor '',as starts the officially claimed 1974 ''SLA'' Letter.

The Hearst Corporation,so far,deny ''us'' the public,access to the signature,on that card.

''That'',I would suggest,is the very least,of what The Hearst Corporation know more about the card,than ''we'' do.

Shawn

1/26/2019 06:37:12 am

Rubis

Yea, I forgot about the July 31, 1969 3 part cipher letter mailed to the Examiner.

One of July 31st 1969 3 part cipher letters was sent to the Vallejo Times Herald which was not owned by Hearst.

To me, the Zodiac Killer was going for logical maximum exposure which included the smallish paper Vallejo Times Herald because the first two attacks had already occurred in the Vallejo area.

Killing Paul Stine in San Francisco made the first Zodiac's first 3 of 4 letters mailed to the SF Chronicle and Examiner even more relevant.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/26/2019 08:16:43 am

Yes,I think that the ''triad'' of July 31st 1969 letters,going to the SF Examiner,is a minor detail,Shawn....and you are right to point out,grounds for suspecting that the Zodiac,may have been inclined,to avoid Hearst's SF Examiner,at times.

Technically,at least,if the recently ''outed'' 2001 New Years Card,is genuine Zodiac....then it will have been,the first time,that the Zodiac used a Hearst owned newspaper,since August 4th 1969.

In examining Richard's recent uncovering of letters,in 1974,and at the time of Patty Hearst's kidnapping,by the SLA,then it is entirely possible,that the Zodiac....

i] Touched a raw nerve,with Catherine Campbell Hearst,over the firing of Berkeley University lecturer,Angela Davis.

ii] Insulted Randolph Apperson Hearst,and his father's memory.

iii] Informed,both Catherine and Randolph,that their daughter,Patty,had lost her virginity to her captors.

Pretty sordid stuff [?]

In addition,it is also possible that the Zodiac,further attempted to humiliate Patty's father,over an association with prominent American Native leader,David Banks.

If,as is likely,the FBI are aware of the authorship of the letters,that Richard has uncovered.....then,it's more than likely that Randolph Apperson Hearst,was informed by the FBI.

And,if the finger of guilt,points to the Zodiac,then the Zodiac would hardly likely to be on Randolph Hearst's ''Christmas Card List'',in the future.

And further,that the Zodiac would see it,as in his best interests to avoid Hearst's newspaper,in the future.

But,with the 2001 New Years Card,a tantalising thought materialises :

Was the Zodiac aware that the Hearst Corporation ''now'' owned the SF Chronicle,when or if,he sent them the 2001 New Years Card ?

Rubislaw 32 link

1/25/2019 05:55:25 pm

....and further,to focus on 1990 :

The 1990 Celebrity Cyper didn't surface,in public,until a copy was gifted to Lyndon Lafferty,by the Vallejo Police,in 2006.Which,Lafferty kindly made available to the internet,before his book was published,after William Grant's death,in 2012.

The Xmas Eureka Card,did not surface until 2007,when the SF Chronicle ''apparently'' came across it,at their offices,and handed it over to the FBI.....who then made it available to the public.

Did,perhaps,the Zodiac send a third correspondence to Hearst's SF Examiner,in 1990 [?].and possibly,with Paul Avery in mind.

Or,did the Zodiac not bother,since he was confident that the Hearst Corporation would not ''give him the time day'',and publish it,anyway [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

1/26/2019 01:50:40 am

Here's the ''not so extraordinary'' story,on the history of the 1990 Celebrity Cypher :

On receipt of the 1990 Celebrity Cypher Card,in September 1990,The Vallejo Times Herald hand it over,promptly,to The Vallejo Police.

The Vallejo Police,promptly,inform the FBI of this new correspondence.The FBI collect the 1990 Celebrity Cypher,from the Vallejo Police,and give The Vallejo Police a copy of it,for their records.

Hence,in 2006,Lafferty was allowed to photocopy the V.P.D.'s copy,and walk off with it,with the V.P.D.'s permission.

I would suggest that,in reality,with the FBI/CA DOJ's permission [?].

After all,if protocol is followed,the FBI are supposed to hold guardianship of all correspondences,related to the Zodiac...in service of the CA DOJ's needs and instructions.

So,really...if we look at any ''angle'' on Hearst employee,Kevin Fagan's ''outing'' of the ''2001 New Years Card''....it has been sanctioned by the FBI and CA DOJ.

And,Mr.Fagan's ''hands'' are tied behind his back,until further ''say so'' from the FBI and CA DOJ.

Perhaps,a further ''message'' can be gleaned [?].

That being,that Detective Poyser's claims in May 2018,of ''envelopes'' and a ''secret laboratory'',was....complete fabrication.

And,on the instructions of......the FBI and CA DOJ.

1/26/2019 09:24:22 am

Richard
According to this recreation on YouTube
Zodiac: Lake Herman Road (Bill Ratekin)
David Faraday fought with the killer

Richard

1/26/2019 09:57:09 am

There is no proof of that. There was a large lump on his right cheek at autopsy and the class ring was found between his finger and thumb. He was also shot from near contact distance, so a case could be argued that he fought with the assailant, in which the ring was dislodged from his finger, he was struck on his right cheek and received the close contact wound. However, the lump on his cheek could have been sustained after he struck the ground and the ring could easily have been dislodged by similar means, or his removal from the crime scene. There is no definitive way to claim either to be the true answer, no matter what people claim, but I certainly wouldn't discount it as a possibility.

1/26/2019 12:43:35 pm

Richard
I see that the first shot ever made by the Zodiac was a miss from the passenger side of his car to the passenger side of Faraday's.
Is this the case or am I mistaken?

Richard

1/26/2019 01:14:02 pm

The first shot that night could never be proven just from ballistics. But if we believe the assailant pulled alongside, exited his vehicle and shot towards the Rambler, then the first shot could have missed, been the one that struck the window or the one that hit the headliner. I think the first shot was fired from the assailant's driver side door the moment he exited his vehicle, and it struck the headliner. I have given a breakdown here, but this is only my opinion. Nobody can claim to know for sure - you would have to be there to know that.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/lake-herman-road-the-sequence-of-shots

1/27/2019 10:11:08 am

The Facts

On December 7, 1967, the body of Ronald Lee Roy was discovered in the Carquinez Heights area of Vallejo. An autopsy of Roy's body revealed three bullet wounds in the head and three facial lacerations. The pathologist who conducted the autopsy testified that the lacerations had occurred before death and were probably inflicted by a hard, blunt object. (This establishes to M.O.of David Wally Ott - he later repeats this on Doomsday 12-20-68)

The coroner of Solano County was of the opinion that the victim had been killed less than 12 hours before the body was found. ( Killed by the Zodiac/David Wally Ott on Doomsday 12-6-67)

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t1134-david-wally-ott?highlight=david+wally+ott

The other killings in the Zodiac case seem to be the co-opting of copycats by yellow journalist/s.
Brian Hartnell never said that the symbol was definite and in that shape - just that it was defined.
And, the writing on his car door could have easily been placed their by a yellow press agent. Or even
them working together with organized criminals to cover for others through the spread of disinformation.

1/26/2019 05:18:00 pm

"Solana Country Investigators at the time had good reason to believe the first attack at Lake Herman Road was drug related. 2 informants, in jail for a similar crime the year before, pointed to a drug-dealing associate of theirs named David Wally Ott as the shooter of Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday.
Police had some corroboration of this ID from another witness and a confirmed account of a confrontation between Faraday and another drug dealer in which Faraday had threatened to turn him into the police."
https://theunredacted.com/zodiac-serial-murders-the-phantom-killer/
David Wally Ott's birthday is 05/16/1941 he is 77 years old and was able to hide in plain sight for quite some time. Pinole, CA. He is a Taurus.
http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t1134-david-wally-ott?highlight=david+wally+ott

My Name Is Mine

1/26/2019 11:39:33 pm

The difference that I can see is the letter written by SLA actually makes sense and its meaning is clear. On the other hand, the Zodiac letters are always crafted in insanity. They are disjointed. They ramble from one subject to the next and their meaning is often obscure and difficult to place with any degree of certainty into a real or imagined context. They drift between reality and fantasy. So when Zodiac rants about Exorcist and Badlands movies and SLA as an abbreviation, the intended meaning becomes more like a game of cat and mouse - with words and their meanings as the plaything - rather than a firm demand that is based in actual fact. Zodiac wrote stuff like "One thing is certain, when I next do my thing you will know about it, so you better guess what I mean by radians, or else!". SLA made overt demands, and those demands were crystal clear.

Tom1

1/27/2019 07:31:50 am

That is why I believe that his “identity” is revealed by his behaviour and not by the coded messages in the ciphers themselves. My name is, connect the dots. Who among us would be likely to taunt LE in the manner that Mr Z. employed? I think that is the reason that LE used the print media to goad him in to sending additional correspondence. Mike R used profiling in this manner in order to come up with his POI. Mr X fits the profile, but I don’t think that he is the perpatrator.

Tom1

1/27/2019 07:35:51 am

My Name is Mine,
Thank you so much. Your posts make way too much sense
TM

My Name Is Mine

1/27/2019 04:28:53 pm

Thanks Tom, but I am not so sure about him not revealing his identity in those ciphers. I think he did. Why? He wanted to prove that he could reveal his identity without getting caught to that pompous "expert" cryptographer, Mr Marsh, who, in the same newspaper most courted by Zodiac, dared him to to reveal his name by way of a cipher. Marsh got cocky and so Zodiac would have felt a need to put him in his place. My bet is he did indeed reveal things about his identity in those ciphers and Marsh fell for the ruse.

Like so many "expert" cryptographers, even today, they reach the "logical" conclusion that the cipher cannot be solved. So they claim it must be a "fake cipher" that was encrypted in a state of total madness. For all they know, the killer's identity could be staring right back at them from somewhere in those ciphers. It is easy to dismiss something as fake when you do not fully understand it, or the intentions behind the encryption. Yes it may be encrypted in a state of madness, but Zodiac may also have been a "clever madman" (when it suited him).

tom1

1/29/2019 03:15:33 pm

It is not solvable by conventional means, so if by definition is it not a true cipher? Could it be a word puzzle requiring an overlay to reveal the operative characters? Randall Clemons has done extensive research and writing on this possibility. I don't begin to understand all of his works, but his theory seems very plausible.

My Name Is Mine

1/29/2019 04:03:17 pm

Hi Tom1, My personal hunch is this cipher is operating on many different levels beyond the scope of accepted cryptography. It is in effect a cerebral puzzle, as you suggest. I think it is part pictogram, part homophonic, part word puzzle, but mostly it is a crazy kind of artwork dedicated to the author's fascination with numbers and shapes that concern the number 3. The four quadrants, like 0,3,6,9, positions (or N,E,S,W) with paradise/slaves at its center - there is meaning there - just not in the traditional sense of a conventional cipher. This is why the American Cryptogram Society and FBI etc. will never understand it. This is why they have stupidly resorted to calling it a fake cipher. The cipher was designed to challenge their sensibilities. The Zodiac correctly predicted that they would arrogantly apply their rigid and prescriptive rules to the cipher and they would fail miserably. He beat them at their own game. It is like he was telling Marsh that if he is so smart, then go ahead, try to solve this and prove yourself!! Marsh dared him, so he dared Marsh in return.

I personally think the killer's identity will be there too, garbled in some way, perhaps initials, perhaps his first name or surname, but nevertheless sitting there for all to see. We cannot understand it of course because we do not know his identity. If we did I am sure it would then seem very obvious.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/27/2019 10:30:09 am

Just to add,that there is extra [ HEARNAP file 5 Page 700...plus],on the ''same'' ''The General and Der Furher'' to Sammy Davis Jnr.,''The General'' to Harland Sanders,and ''Red Chief'' to Randolph Hearst.

This time,a number of people,including The Editor of ''Esquire'' magazine,in New York.

All from ''North Hollywood'' vicinity,and connectors,like ''Sherman Oaks''.

For these targeted people,the hoaxer was now ''The Sorcerer'',and claiming that the Mafia were responsible for the murders of Sharon Tate and Marcus Foster...and faked the kidnapping of Patty Hearst.

One would have thought [?].....one hoaxer,on ''that'' scale of hoaxing.The authorities surely must have apprehended him [?].

But,if he was the Zodiac.....then,''they'' clearly were unable to.

So,who knows [?].....maybe this recent 2001 New Years Card,with its ''Hearst'' links,is ''telegraphing'' the Zodiac,that ''they'' now know,who he is.

For,as far as I am aware,''Operation Bynum'' is doing the same thing.But,in relation to actual murders,post ''Bay Area''.

The ''heat'' may be in on [?].We just don't know,how close,LE is,in terms of time.

Wouldn't you just know it [?].The Zodiac will ''nerver'' give in,until they actually place some handcuffs,on him....and read him his rights.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/27/2019 01:51:53 pm

I see now,that the FBI refer to an initial demand of $15 Million from Randolph Hearst,for the release of his daughter.

It does seem quite apparent that,none of the correspondences related,and discussed,mention money [?].

And,the ''hoaxer'' with a collection of connecting ''North Hollywood'' clues,seems absolutely relentless....jumping on to the SLA/Hearst bandwagon,and milking it from every possible ''screwball'' angle.

Apart from asking for money.

The Zodiac was about ''upper hands'',''victories'' and showing off,his self-consuming array of many talents.

He never was about money.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/27/2019 02:01:17 pm

.....''F*ck knows what's the price on me now ? ''

That was about ''value''.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/28/2019 01:13:52 am

Just to note further,Richard,....this ''North Hollywood Hoaxer'' Came up with the ''The Sorcerer'' letter to the Esquire Editor,and a confectioner in New York,plus electronic message to a firm in Oregon....on February 13th 1974.

Seven days earlier,and as inferred by the FBI,he had also sent letters to the SF Examiner and Oakland Tribune,as ''The Admiral''.

Also inferred,that the SF Examiner one,was actually addressed to ''The Traffic Manager''....which we might compare to the ''Red Chief'' one for Randolph Hearst....that ended up in Hong Kong [!],similarly addressed.

If,of course,knowledge of an association,between Randolph Hearst and Native American leader,David Banks,was known about,before April,at that general time....then the ''Red Chief'' tag,might have extra meaning [?].

This unknown signature,for the public,on the 2001 New Years Card,becomes even more tantalising,with the SF Examiner/The Admiral link [?].

Kevin Fagan merely claims that the card ''...was signed by the Zodiac.''.Well,it could have been..but what if there were ''extras'',like a butterfly,for instance.Allusions to the ''Red Admiral'',perhaps [?].

You get the picture.....

Rubislaw 32 link

1/28/2019 03:10:09 am

I can see that I'm going to have to go through these ''HEARNAP'' files,a second time.All sorts of clues suggesting that the ''North Hollywood Hoaxer'',is one and the same person.

The ''name changing'' game doesn't get any easier,but these leopards don't really change their spots [?].

From the files,''a person'' has been fingered,by two witnesses,residing in ''Canoga Park'',and standing out,on account of having Oregon Licence Plates,on one of his vehicles.

So,maybe the authorities know now [?].

Perhaps,the 2001 New Years Card,was a ''message'' to ''Zodiac'',that ''the game'' will soon be up.

''Something very strange'' has recently happened to one of my cipher solutions.

I know,that much...anyway.

1/28/2019 09:11:58 am

The Facts must be weighed.

Is it more likely that the Zodiac descriptions changed so greatly from scene to scene over the course of less than a year from 12-20-68 to 10-11-69.

Or, is it more likely that their was a corrupt government man or yellow press agent able to make his way into an evidence locker to cut a swatch from a shirt.

It would seem that if you knew the initial size of the cut out space on the Stine shirt that you could compare that to the current size.

Science is based or measurement. Zodiology is pseudoscience.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/28/2019 11:05:18 am

Certainly an interesting comment,BB.

I believe that what we can be fairly confident about [...and Richard,please step in to correct,if wrong...],is....that the Zodiac used up two swatches,that we know about.

The first being for his ''Tuesday'' confession letter,after Zodiac's ''Saturday'' slaying of Paul Stine.

The second,for Melvin Belli's December 20th 1969 letter.

A general opinion is,that the Zodiac still held enough of Paul Stine's bloodied shirt....for two more swatches,of similar size.

''Candidates'' for the Zodiac's remaining shirt sample,could be the November San Jose Letter and Cryptogram,the December 16th Fairfield Letter c/w Bleeding knife etching....or even,the April 1970 ''My name is ----'' cipher letter.

Correspondences,anyway,where the Zodiac would wish for immediate belief,and possible action,in response to that correspondence.

Photographic ''evidence'',with regard to Stine's shirt,is all we have....so,you could be right about the ''corruption'' inference,BB.

I do tend to believe Graysmith,though,on the account of the SF Chronicle contacting Toschi and Armstrong,on receipt of the Zodiac's ''Washngton and Maple'' letter...for ''starters'',anyway.

Richard

1/28/2019 03:31:50 pm

Zodiac used three swatches [1] October 13th [2] November 9th [3] December 20th. Here is the FBI file.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/little-3.gif?713

The Thomas Horan stories of people in the morgue or reporters surreptitiously removing a piece of shirt are totally groundless. He uses an analysis of the blood on the shirt to make a claim that the shirt was torn after it dried. This is scientifically baseless and has no merit. The multitude of fanciful claims over 4 jurisdictions involving a team of hoaxers, is akin to creationism, flat earth, 911 truthers and Sandy Hook conspiracy theories. His claims are easily debunked, but when people live in an alternative reality, facts have no bearing on them. Of course, now he has solved the 340 cipher as well. The delusion knows no bounds.

My Name Is Mine

1/28/2019 02:36:52 pm

I never cease to be amazed when people talk about the facts in the absence of any.

I wish SFPD would release the actual police reports relating to the Stine murder scene. Seems this will be the only way to quash the loony stories about Stine's shirt mysteriously being stolen by a "merry band of co-conspirators" some time after his body was removed from the car.

This bizarre theory about stolen swathes of shirt is just another one of Thomas Horan's fanciful tales!

If it does turn out that the shirt was intact until some time later, well that kind of indicates the killer must have been on the police payroll, or he worked in the morgue, and, as such, the culprit should have been easily caught... and furthermore this evidence would have been so ground-breaking, it would have been sufficient to rule out Leigh entirely - something that never happened! So the theory falls flat right there, unless we are willing to entertain the idea that Toschi and Armstrong were either very stupid or were "in on" the conspiracy too. I do not believe either was the case.

The internal corruption theory of Thomas Horan and co. serves no useful purposes in this case, apart from providing the gossips and rumor-mongers, and the easily led, with sensationalist fodder fit only for the Tabloid press.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/28/2019 06:57:39 pm

Just some information gleaned on the 2001 New Years Card envelope :

The zip code indicates that ''Zodiac'' posted it,within 2 km of the SF Chronicle offices.

Hence,the partially obscured postmark,should read ''San Francisco'' [....and not another ''San'',like ''Mateo...].Also,of course,the ''patently clear'' January 10th date.

The postage stamp is not franked...and may be an addition,by the FBI [?].Might even,obscure something written,or marked [?].

''Zodiac'' employs a ''fine point'' ink release pen....as a draughtsman might use.He starts the address : ''Letters to the Editor''.

So,it is possible that there was more than one correspondence,inside the envelope.Or,there just wasn't....or it was wordplay,that ''Alphabetic'' letters,were inside.

Is this really,''credible journalism'' from Mr.Fagan,in this day and age ? [....I ask rhetorically...].

Judith

1/28/2019 08:37:13 pm

Imagine Belli when he received his little piece of bloody shirt. No, this is not yellow journalism, no handy-dandy reporter wrote on the car door at Lake Berryessa or stole pieces of Paul Stein's shirt. These are the acts of a terrorist. The kind of person who would frighten you in a way that really makes you uncomfortable to think about now. Statements were being made.
Far flung ideas get us no where.
What do we know for sure.
Fingerprints? There are no confirmed zodiac fingerprints. No one set of prints matches another from one letter to a single crime scene. He knew enough to not leave fingerprints.
Eye witnesses? I have now read every form of denial of the eye witness accounts of the Zodiac Killer. Instead people would like to insert the account of a police officer who saw a random guy walking down a street in San Francisco. Old guys, fat guys, guys over 6ft tall. Anybody that wears a pair of horn-rimmed eyeglasses. The guy at Lake Berryessa the girls saw. None of these accounts are eyewitness accounts. Ear witness accounts? they said his voice sounded Young. But you have people accusing 45 year old men of committing these crimes.
Vehicle description? We have Mike stating that at Blue Rock Springs the car looked like Dee's brown Corvair. Then you have every random account of any car seen that night going along Lake Herman Road and what people think they saw maybe parked in the turn out as they flew past. A light blue Chevrolet.
Well at least we know he was a white male.
And then there was somebody writing letters taking credit for all of these crimes, likely the killer himself, but how do you prove that?
Not that long ago Napa Sheriff's sent the Lake Berryessa evidence to the Richmond labs for DNA testing and were unable to come up with any type of profile.
Everybody and their brother touched the evidence in the various police departments.
Let us hope that law enforcement withheld enough evidence and information and letters from the public, that there is something that they can test and cross reference to solve these crimes.
There is quite a tangled web.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/28/2019 09:39:41 pm

Well....that was interesting,to say the least....

I was about to settle down to File 6 of HEARNAP....and found that it was missing.Same,with File 7.

So,I checked on the first 5 files,again....and found that File 3,has just been removed.

Ever had the feeling,you were being watched ?

Anyway,I did have access to File 8 [....thank you,''FBI''...]

Lots more hoaxers emerging....but,''Our Friend'',The North Hollywood Hoaxer,turned up ''trumps'' again.

Following letters to the SF Examiner and Oakland Tribune,on February 6th,as ''The Admiral''....he sends another two letters,on February 16th [....with ''The Sorcerer'' ones,in between,on February 13th.]

On February 16th,the two letters go to the Oakland Tribune and the Hewlett-Packard company,in Palo Alto.This time,the same hoaxer reverts back to ''Red Chief''.And,this time he accuses the Mafia of murdering ''Ray Priest'',son of Ivy Priest,the California State Treasurer.Also,murdering an unnamed 8 year old boy.

It also emerges that the FBI are aware that ''our'' North Hollywood Hoaxer,has used the name ''Sergeant XXXXXX'' [...could be ''Pepper'' [?]....].

By this time [February 16th],the FBI have gotten around to speaking with ''KGIL'' Radio Station,whom The North Hollywood Hoaxer claims association.But,''KGIL'' have no idea,who he could be,and,like Sammy Davis Jnr.,simply refer to him as a ''nut''.

I wonder how many HEARNAP files,that the FBI will leave available,by to-morrow [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2019 04:24:32 am

Hi Richard...I was about to settle down to HEARNAP,file 8....but that's gone missing....also file 9.

So, I thought I would note,for the record that,on this day,January 29th 2019....out of 42 FBI files,which constitute HEARNAP,the following,are currently missing :

Nos. 3,6,7,9,10,12,16,30,41.

It might be interesting,to see if any changes take place,with the files,from this date forth.

Richard

1/29/2019 04:48:17 am

Just checked, I can get file 8, but not 9.
The important file, is 34. Scroll to near the end, where you can view all the crucial letters an envelopes from around the Hearst kidnapping. The February 10th 1974 (a friend) letter and its follow up were retrieved from a postal annex in Burlingame, California. Burlingame is in San Mateo, which is where I believe the Exorcist letter was mailed from. The FBI files detailed the Exorcist letter having been mailed from Santa Clara or San Mateo County, but with the February 10th and 11th letters being routed through Burlingame, San Mateo, California, there is a good possibility the Exorcist letter was mailed from here also. The 'four 74 SLA' letters were all mailed on the fringes of San Francisco unlike all of the Zodiac communications. If you believe the Zodiac mailed the Exorcist letter, what is important is to ask, is why would Zodiac reappear after 3 years just to give his opinion on The Exorcist movie, while incapable of giving us his opinion of two Zodiac based films in 1971. It is odd, is that The Exorcist film/book and The Mikado were created by three Will's- William Blatty, William Friedkin and William S Gilbert, and the verse chosen by Zodiac or otherwise, contains three Will's, in the form of Tit-Willow. Why did Zodiac or hoaxer choose this specific, non-threatening verse, under the heading "Signed, Yours Truley." Was he giving us a name (if not Ko-Ko The Lord High Executioner).

Remember the Hearst letter:(Second Commandment: "For I the Lord as a jealous God and visit the sins of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.)

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2019 05:20:01 am

Thanks for the information,Richard....and will home in on File 34,first.

Yes,I believe that I meant to say ''9'',having gleaned ''the second coming of 'Red Chief ' '',from File 8.

Just on a general overview,some sort of ''Paternal complex'' pattern seems to keep cropping up [?].

I think he would have settled for Herb Caen,as his ''Dad'',though.

That's if he thought anyone else's advice,was worth hearing.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2019 06:11:34 am

Thanks,Richard,and I'll home in on File 34,first.Bearing in mind,what you say,and then also look to see how the North Hollywood Hoaxer ''might'' fit in,dates wise,with the ''Exorcist sender''.

Yes,sorry...File 8 is ''OK'',and gives the ''second coming of Red Chief'',for February 16th,to Oakland Tribune and H-Packard.

The missing files are ''as is''....and ''know'' that File 3 went missing,after I had read it.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2019 07:17:34 am

Yes,the Exorcist Letter,is a bit of a mystery,on what spurred ''Zodiac'',if it was him.The recent archive footage,covering the first month of release,does focus on the quanity of fainting fits and vomiting occurrences,from audiences.

''Zodiac'' might have thought that amusing [?].

In File 34,I was ''quite taken'' by the letter from ''The Lord God''.A bit of ''Zodiac action'' going on there [?].....that,''Patricia'' was being kept in San Francisco,''...in a black people part of town.''.....and,in a ''bedroom facing west''.

What was it,with Zodiac,and his ''obsessions'' with orientation ?

And then,some biblical spiel,naturally,with ''Who is this,that even wind and sea obey him.'' [Mark 4 - 41].

Plus,handwriting is quite persuasive.

If ''1974'' was a second coming of Zodiac,then I think it must have been a conscious decision,to rid himself of the ''shackles'' of that persona....and ''re-invent'' himself,as ''something'' else.

So,we might be just seeing glimpses of his former self.And probably,it was a ''personal failure'' for him,as a hoaxing extortionist [?].

''That'' he,the person formally known as ''The Zodiac'' just became enveloped,with other weirdo hoaxers,in a news story,that was way bigger,than he could ever have imagined.

However much he tried,using other guises,''The Hearst Kidnapping'' made him feel ''small''.

And,ordinary.

Judith

1/29/2019 10:40:23 am

Why not reach out to Bill Harris and ask him? Do you know the Zodiac?

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2019 11:54:07 am

An excellent idea,Judith,if these individuals feel inclined to talk about the past.

My inclinations are,that the SLA's focus on what they planned to achieve,would not have included using a legacy of notoriety,from a serial killer,as the Zodiac.

But would be happy for this to be found otherwise the case,if we could get closer to the truth.

Before I go back to HEARNAP,I just wanted to mention the Count Marco letter.

If the Marco letter [July 8th 1974] is from the Zodiac,I have always felt that its artistic style was a ''steal'' from a publication,such as a comic.I continually keep my eyes peeled....for,if the style of writing was stolen,then it might enlighten us more,to be persuaded of its Zodiac authenticity.

Personally,I believe that the Marco letter,was the Zodiac's ''sign off'',before returning to Europe,where he had been residing,for most of 1972 and 1973.

And,he did end up,with a ''minor dividend'' pay off,by having Spinelli's column,shut down.''This'',after missing Patty Hearst's kidnapping,by one day.....and the May 16th ''shootout'',by one week,with his claimed ''A citizen'' card.

I suspect that,the Zodiac,hiding behind a number of ''nomes de plume'',between November 1973 and July 1974,had felt that the gods had not been on his side,as an effective terrorist.

In comparison to the SLA,''The Zodiac'' was just ''playing at it''.

And,not very well.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2019 05:28:14 pm

As a general description of the script font,employed in the ''Count Marco'' Letter,I have found that it would be categorised as :

''Missiva'' - 16th Century Italian letter writing script.

Missiva means ''message'',in English.And hence,the derivative word,''Missive''.

''Count Marco'' itself,then,was a clue of a sort [?].

1/29/2019 05:37:12 pm

Richard

Here you state "# There are some additional features of interest:"

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/340-cipher-embedded-symmetry

When talking about the alphabet letters M and K in all of the ciphers. One possibility is the radio station KTM

Born in the state of Texas in 1928, Richard Marshall developed a fascination with electronics and old films, and he eventually worked as a projectionist at a movie theater. He also worked as an engineer for the Bay Area radio station KTM. ( With his pal Bob Vaughn thought to best fit the handwriting. He and Marshall they possibly were a duo writing the letters? Or is that movie fiction?)

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/marshall.htm

PS. I hope everyone knows - the (The Facts) comment is not mine - it is a copy and paste from the following URL
I don't subscribe to any theory I've learned to just follow the evidence.

http://zodiackillersite.forummotion.com/t1134-david-wally-ott?highlight=david+wally+ott

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2019 07:44:43 pm

At the time of Patty Hearst's abduction,she and her fiance,Steven Weed,were sharing an apartment,in Berkeley.

Steven Weed was injured,when Patty was abducted.He was nevertheless,seen as a suspect,as well as victim,by the FBI.

For his protection,initially at least,he moved into Randolph Hearst's Hillsborough residency.Clearly,the FBI had to concern themselves,with regard to protection of ''peripheral'' family,linked to the Hearst family.

This protection,included Steven Weed's aunt,Dorothy Hopper,and his mother,Margaret Pepper,residing in Santa Rosa.

Perhaps we might be getting closer to the reason that the FBI elected to redact the name of the ''Sergeant'',employed by the ''North Hollywood Hoaxer'' [?].And,that the use of actual correspondence,was never disclosed.

How ironic that,the hoaxer may never have known,the full ramifications,of a possible use of ''Sergeant Pepper''.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/30/2019 08:55:57 pm

Certainly a depressing business,Richard,wading through the mass of hoaxers,at the latter end of the HEARNAP files.

Once,''Death to the Fascist Insect that preys on the life of the people'',had become known as the motto of the official SLA....then the floodgates just opened,with every strange person imaginable,wanting to put across a political viewpoint.

The few interesting letters,were more the sort,that wanted to blow things up.A Brigadier General Matrix,posting from Templeton,Texas,on 20th September 1975,claimed that he held ''Patricia''.Perhaps he had not realised that ''Tania'' had been apprehended,two days prior.

Another notable correspondence,was from ''Robert'',who sent a ''Get Well'' card to Betty Ford,and wished her ''sh*t head husband'',President Gerald,would catch what she had,but worse.This card,ending with ''SLA rules''.The writing did look quite persuasive,as being that of the Zodiac's....but how could we really be sure [?].

In the words of ''Eleanor Rigby'' :

''All the lonely people,where do they all come from ? ''.

And indeed,''Belong'' .

Rubislaw 32 link

2/1/2019 07:26:57 am

Card,plus :

HEARNAP File 42,Pages 217 - 224.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 04:37:56 am

Reappraising ''Brigadier General Matrix'',I think it's definitely worth another look.

Great efforts for the typed letter,to look formal,though the content descends into ''warped humour'' quickly.And,of course,the knowledge that this ''nut'' was oblivious,by two days,that ''Tania'' had been arrested.

Templeton is halfway,between Austin and Hillsboro,and halfway between San Antonio and Dallas.

After his formal signing off,''Matrix'' has written '' Pat Mac Jew ''.

'' Patricia MacDonalds Jew '' [?].

Reference : HEARNAP File 37,Pages 573,574,575.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 04:50:45 am

....that should read : '' Temple Texas ''

[...all this file reading is making me blind...]

Yes....addressed to R.A.Hearst,at the SF Examiner.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 05:09:05 am

....I was confusing ''Temple'' with ''Templeton Woods''.

The ''latter'' being The Puppet Master's domain.

[...I really must stop this..it's very naughty of me...]

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 04:59:49 am

.....or,maybe ''Matrix'' means,that the ''southern wing'',has given Patricia up [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 05:46:05 am

The ''Mac'' could refer to Berkeley graduate ''Robert McNamara'',who was Secretary of State for Defence,under both Kennedy and Johnson,and seen as the architect for the modernisation of U.S.Defence.

He resigned from Johnson's staff,to become President of The World Bank....promoting an image of the bank's duty,to exist for the benefit of the world's poor.

Perhaps,referred to as ''Jew'',simply because he was now a banker [?].

After all,''Matrix'' 's letter is presumed to be intended,as humorous.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 05:49:20 am

....and,maybe the ''Robert'',who is supposed to have written the ''Get Well'' card to Betty Ford..is mean't to be ''Robert McNamara''.

The work of the same hoaxer,as ''Matrix'' [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 06:11:45 am

Robert McNamara's middle name was ''Strange'',which would have appealed to the Zodiac.

Plus McNamara's involvement in the Cuban Missile Crisis...perhaps reawakening the cause of the Spanish-American war....for ''less trusting'' Texans [?].

I'll see if I can find any links,between R.A.Hearst and Robert Strange McNamara.

One can't dismiss the ''Dr.Strangelove'' factor,also [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

2/1/2019 06:39:09 am

Prior to joining the Kennedy administration,Robert Strange McNamara had been the Chairman of Ford Motors.

From boss of the largest automobile company in the world...to guardian of the world's largest nuclear arsenal....to President of the World Bank.

Talents,no doubt,that would have appealed to the Zodiac [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 06:53:25 am

While I go do some more research,perhaps someone from Texas,might like to chip in,here.

From your ''Yellow Journalism'' expose,Richard,it does seem as if ,with the Patty Hearst Kidnapping,that some Texans,at least,felt that the Hearst Dynasty was finally getting some long overdue ''come uppance '' [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 07:05:28 am

'' Pat Mac Jew ''....could be ''Pat McNamara,the banker,on the back'' [?].

From a ''Texan perspective''.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 08:50:00 am

Well,well,well....I believe I have solved the mystery,of the 2001 New Years Card....as sure as I can be anyway.

Just need some more research,to be that more confident,and will reveal shortly.

It won't hasten anything,though....but believe that it will make the wait,a little easier,knowing that the Zodiac has,figuratively,''now been told''.

And ''sucks'' to Mr.Fagan,who probably doesn't even know,nor has enough curiosity,to find out.

Just a ''Flag planter'' for his ''precious'' newspaper,that bears no ''teeth'',as it used to,in the days of the late Mr.Avery.

1/31/2019 01:09:26 pm

Since Boss Radio was an instant hit in LA, RKO brought it to San Francisco in 1966 under PD Tom Rounds. Although KYA called themselves "The Boss of the Bay" in 1965, Drake gave KFRC its official Boss Radio sound. Tom Rounds left KFRC in 1967 and founded a radio syndication company with KHJ PD Ron Jacobs. The company was called Watermark, Inc. and three years later they launched the popular syndicated show American Top 40, hosted by Casey Kasem.
http://www.playlistresearch.com/history/sfradio1960s.htm

Were there is smoke... by fire - there be links to RKO
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RKO_Pictures
The Tim Holt comic is an RKO Production which is the #1 piece of evidence to define The Zodiac.
The Movie Citizen Kane was an RKO Production which was the #1 thorn in the side of Hearst
The top POI in the Zodiac case was an engineer for a bay area radio station KTM RicKMarshall
The main claim to fame for RKO is bringing sound to the silent film. Radio was their thing.
Silent film was RicKMarshall's thing.
During its heyday, KSAN had maintained a strong counterculture reputation. News reports often contained political commentary, with stories about the Vietnam War, the Nixon Administration, growing marijuana and drugs. When the Symbionese Liberation Army kidnapped heiress Patty Hearst, they used KSAN to communicate their message and demands, via cassette tapes. The station enlisted the assistance of the Federal Bureau of Investigation during this ordeal, as they became an unwilling go-between in the Hearst kidnapping.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KYLD
Most of the bay area radio stations seem to be owned or intertwined with RKO in the late 60's and early 70's
Looking online for one reference to radio station KTM ??? Can't find anything.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 01:45:45 pm

Yes...well I just want to firm up,on some information,generally available,Richard.

For,that is all the FBI are leaving me with,now that I'm on to their ''little game''.After their HEARNAP file 3 trick....they've just pulled another file,elsewhere.

But,too late....because I've figured it out.You see,I have always tried to play with a straight bat,with ''LE'' generally....''that'' way,one can reap the consequences of their subsequent actions,in relation to what one tells them.They are no less of a bunch of ''scallywags'',as the rest of us,''mere mortals'',anyway.So,one just plays on their arrogance,to get more out of them.

Yes....to get to the point....the Zodiac is ''A friend''...is the ''Russel and Little'' scribe....is the ''North Hollywood Hoaxer''...and,is Brigadier General Matrix,and sender of the the letter from Temple,Texas,on September 20th 1975.

The 2001 New Years Card is designed to let the Zodiac know that ''the authorities'' have him ''banged to rights'' and ''stitched up like a kipper''....as,an extortionist.

And,quite plainly,as one who extorted the Hearst family.

But...they have ''more''...and,that being,actual death threats,against a specific well known person.It is the ''Brigadier General Matrix'' letter,that provides the clue,to a ''crossover'' on to the Zodiac's ''other'' extortion target.

Zodiac has known,for the last four years,that ''LE'' are struggling to pin enough evidence,on him,for an actual murder.

But,the 2001 New Years Card is ''telegraphing'' to the Zodiac that,he really should start considering giving himself up,because......

If,after a given time,''the authorities'' are still unable to arrest te Zodiac,for murder,with confidence,then.....they ''will'' arrest him on multiple extortion charges,anyway.

''This'' is why ''LE'' are still trying to ''buy time''....to give public prosecutors a chance,to nail him for murder.But,''Extortion'' is already,a viable ''option''.

I will return,with the ''mystery person'',for which ''the authorities'' have enough evidence,to put the Zodiac away,for actual death threats.The clue,in this case....was right under our noses.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/31/2019 10:05:12 pm

The typed letter sent to R.A.Hearst,at the SF Examiner,on September 20th 1975,by a ''Brigadier General Matrix'',was two days following the arrest of SLA member ''Tania'',a.k.a. Patricia Hearst,Randolph's daughter.

The content of the letter,posted at Temple,Texas,soon transcended into a farce about setting off an atomic bomb.

The influence of the hoax,seems to have come from ''Brigadier General Jack.D.Ripper '',in Stanley Kubrick's film ''Dr.Strangelove''.

''Dr.Strangelove'' was a ''Cold War'' tale of an unhinged Brigadier General,who orders a first strike nuclear attack on the Soviet Union,with the subsequent ill fated attempts by a U.S.President and his staff,to recall the bomber aircraft.

Stanley Kubrick is regarded as one of the greatest,and most controversial film directors,in the history of cinema.A Jewish recluse,from New York,who emigrated to the UK,in 1961,where he proceeded to make most of the rest of his films.

His distinguished work,included the film,''A Clockwork Orange'',in 1971.A futuristic tale about a gang of sociopathic English thugs.Such was its controversial subject matter,that Kubrick received death threats,which led him to request that it be withdrawn from UK viewing,in 1973.It was not until after Kubrick's death,that the film was re-released [2000].

Was ''The Zodiac'' responsible for death threats against Stanley Kubrick ? It is beginning to look likely.

The Zodiac was known to mark anniversaries,with correspondences.Perhaps,with the recent publication of a ''2001 New Years Card'',by the SF Chronicle,we might be looking at,more of a ''coming of age'',than an actual anniversary [?].

In 1968,Kubrick made the ''ground breaking'' film,'' 2001 A Space Odyssey ''.Although caught up in noting possible ''Hearst'' links,to the New Years Card,it seems as though the FBI may have used its publication,to send the Zodiac a message of ''knowledge''.

Specifically,that they,the FBI,are now aware that,in addition to the deployment of various ''nomes de plume'',as a hoaxer based in the North Hollywood vicinity,in 1974,that he is also responsible for extortion,perpetrated against.....Stanley Kubrick.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/1/2019 07:34:36 am

Postscript on letter,'' Pat Mac Jew '',could be :

'' Patricia McNamara Kubrick ''

My Name Is Mine

1/31/2019 03:13:36 pm

Conspiracy theories aside, I do agree with the contributor Rubislaw 32 that the FBI have a nasty habit of pulling files from time to time. This is interesting when we consider they are generally the first to scoff at any individual who dares to mention the Zodiac case. They claim the case is "cold" and "inactive" - nobody is actively working on it, they say - and they dismiss anyone with "information" as a raving loony or nutter etc. etc. They ignore or fob off anyone who says they may be able to help with the case or the unsolved ciphers, which they have now relegated to the rubbish bin in any case - by labeling it a "mere fake encrypted in a state of madness". So we can only take this to mean that, by definition, they will now similarly label anyone who believes they have solved the 340 cipher as being "mad".

As with SFPD, the FBI have removed all contacts for Zodiac-related information from their websites, while also maintaining the charade on their annual reports that the Zodiac case is still "active". Most intelligent people would beg to differ. I personally tried to reach out to a retired FBI person who at first admitted to me he has historic links to SFPD, but I was basically threatened into desisting by this rather angry and hostile individual, who suggested I need to learn some "humility" and should just "forget the whole thing" and "leave the Zodiac to rot in hell where he belongs" etc. Then he ranted on that I do not want to be in the position of "fearing for my life" or "going crazy" by absorbing the Zodiac's insanity! As if!! I took his point for what it was - a veiled, insulting, and intimidating threat - and never again contacted this angry, paranoid and slightly unhinged fellow.

I once found a file in the FBI vault which clearly pointed to a certain individual's guilt in writing under the guise of Zodiac and I even mentioned it on an online forum. Much to my chagrin, I tried to locate the file at a later time on a request from another poster. I could not find it. I knew it was towards the end of a certain folder, but no, it was no longer in their files. I had neglected to save a copy and so I came away looking very red-faced indeed. I could no longer prove what I knew to be true. This has the effect of making amateur sleuths seem delusional and paranoid.

We tend to think nobody but a few "amateur stalwarts" bother to read the posts on Zodiac-related forums. I am now convinced that 'Big Brother' is indeed watching, and I am not what anyone would call a paranoid person. The reason for their "stalking" the forums should be obvious - one would hope that these "anonymous eyes" are expecting the real Zodiac to stop by for a chat and they can catch him "in the act". But such scenarios are of course total folly. More likely, they have a greater agenda than this, and that agenda does not even remotely involve snaring the Zodiac killer. Really, they are only interested in covering their own arrogant asses and saving themselves from any further humiliation and embarrassment that this case has already caused them. I believe this is their only present priority in the Zodiac case.

But still LE like to "sit on the fence" with regards to the Zodiac case. They too are secretly hoping for a miracle to come by way of old and degraded DNA evidence. If a culprit is revealed, all of these anonymous eyes will suddenly have names and they will be fighting over the microphone at news conferences to report on their earth-shattering "victory" and praising one another for their great detective work, decades after the fact.

For a case that LE frequently call "cold" and "inactive", I must say they are often very closeted with their information. How many times have people asked various police departments a simple question, only to be told by LE they cannot comment about the case? They then contradict themselves by saying the reason they cannot comment is because the case is still active! Other PDs will use the cryptic wording "on the verge of becoming a cold case" and cite this as the reason why they cannot reveal any information.

Law Enforcement have thrown the amateur sleuths very few crumbs, except to those few like Tom Voigt or Graysmith who have seemingly developed some kind of special rapport, perhaps by not rocking the boat too much, while also entertaining fanciful theories that authorities know can only lead down the fathomless depths of numerous rabbit holes - all ultimately ending in red herrings, e.g. the long-running "Sandy" epic saga, or the bizarre and unprovable Blaine-Gaikowski theory, or the entertaining but equally fatuous Ross Sullivan theory.

It seems if someone does manage to scrape together enough crumbs by way of leaked newspaper reports or private FOI requests, or online FBI files, and formulate them into a theory that does not show LE in a favorable light, LE will often then seek to stone wall the individual at every turn. They seem to resent the fact that members of the public should be

My Name Is Mine

1/31/2019 05:26:24 pm

[Ha! I got cut off in mid-rant!]

They seem to resent the fact that members of the public should be allowed to stick their noses into business that they believe should be "internal" and therefore not available for public thought or discussion. They often use the excuse that such information may be "sensitive" or injurious to the case or to persons still living, when actually the information is rather trivial in nature. For example, I once tried to obtain a simple answer whether or not the Timex watch found at the Riverside crime scene was still ticking at the time it was found or if it had wound down and stopped. I did not receive an answer. Well the Cheri Jo Bates case is still active [apparently] but it actually appears to be about as cold as the Friendly Murders case, which, by the way, was actually SOLVED but one of the wealthiest Counties in the USA was reluctant to pursue the case on the grounds that it could break the County financially! So in such a strangely pathetic and impoverished judicial environment, what hope is there for justice for poor Cheri Jo?

I could rant on and on about this, but for the time being I will simply wander off in a very sullen and disenchanted sulk!

Tom1

2/2/2019 01:41:15 pm

Not meant to justify supposed lack of interest by LE, but the number of unsolved murders in Calif. from the the relative perirod of the Bates murder, through MR Z's reign of terror, until the present is staggering. The total is in the thousands.

My Name Is Mine

2/2/2019 02:48:17 pm

The question Americans should be asking themselves is "Why such a high number?"

The second question, I have already pointed out: Why is it that at times there are cases that are actually solved, in a manner sufficient to send the guilty parties to court and satisfy any jury, but it seems the wealthiest country in the world suddenly becomes "too poor" to extradite guilty people to face charges? Is this a sign of an endemic corruption or are the Counties really that impoverished?

Yet when it comes to someone like Julian Assange, I am sure those same authorities would go to the ends of the earth to bring him to court in the United States, if ever he took one foot outside that Embassy. He is already a prisoner in exile, so one would think that his time inside those walls should be seen as "time served". He has already suffered years of punishment for uncovering the "dirty dealings" of the American Government. But I am sure the greedy and vengeful in power will still demand he face additional punishment. The millions of dollars spent would be mere fodder for sake of preserving what is essentially just a mythical political "ideal". In reality, most average Americans could not care less about Julian Assange or what he did. They would prefer to see him a free man.

It does seem to me that if anyone wants to kill someone and get away with it, California is the best state to do it in. The murderer only has to flee to a foreign country and the USA will be "too poor" to extradite them. Even if the foreign power captures them they will be allowed to get away, because human life is not as important in the USA as "state secrets", which have top priority. Humans become expendable in such a broken system and this replicated belief from on high has no doubt contributed to the unusually high crime rate.

If Zodiac was indeed a foreigner, what hope could there ever be for justice or closure for the families of the victims? I would say slim to none.

We can only see things for what they are. Justice is fundamentally skewed and broken in the so-called "Land of the Free"! How can anyone expect justice when money and political point scoring are always the primary concern? And moreover when the people remain silent and seem incapable of protesting to change their obviously broken systems, what hope is there for change?

I at first wondered how the Zodiac and so many other killers could escape justice for so long. Now that I understand how broken the legal system is in the United States, and the endemic lack of co-operation between different jurisdictions, the reasons are now very plain to me. I am not sure why they should still be such a surprise to most Americans!

Richard

2/2/2019 03:14:37 pm

https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2015/04/backlog_of_sex_crime_kits_will.html

The problem is people in power care more about money, corruption and lining their own pockets. The harsh reality is they don't give a damn about ordinary Americans. The fact that Jane Doe gets raped and shot to pieces is inconsequential to them, while they are eating caviar and having their arses wiped by servants. The politicians, no matter what persuasion are full of platitudes, yet people still hold those placards and vote for these morons. America is awash with wealth - it is just in the hands of the wrong people. The above link shows exactly what they think regarding the victims of crime. Flint has a backlog of 16 years of untested DNA, and still doesn't have clean drinking water. It's not only the Zodiac that has been confined to the dustbin of history, but so many recent cases as the above story demonstrates. For anybody worldwide who believes the vast majority of millionaires and billionaires give a rats piss about the plight of the homeless, impoverished, medically disadvantaged and the copious victims of crime, need a reality check. But they still vote these arseholes in year after year. Hopefully one day people take to the streets, but I sincerely doubt it.

2/3/2019 11:39:56 am

Richard https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/%27Birthplace_of_a_great_city%27_plaque_at_823_Grant_Avenue%2C_San_Francisco.jpg

Follow the Radian line from Mt. Diablo to the Dragon's Gate on Grant. There is a plaque here.
Founder of Yerba Buena was William A. Richardson -18 letters. This is San Fran's AxisMundi.

Tom1

2/5/2019 06:27:09 am

I am on this site to learn about the Zodiac case, and not be subjected to politically based rants. The fact that I disagree with the viewpoints expressed is not the main issue. Their analysis of the issue of unsolved murders in Calif is totally flawed.

My Name Is Mine

2/5/2019 01:58:22 pm

Tom, if you read about the Friendly murders in depth, you will soon realize that everything I said is absolutely true. The stench of apathy and indeed corruption in that case is rife. Beyond belief in fact! It is very plain to see.

The fact is politics and money effects EVERYTHING in American life - the very culture - as much as religion does, which also tends to function on an oddly political and monetary level in the USA as well! So politics, religion and money are all indelibly a part of the criminal milieu, whether we like it or not.

America is awash with religion and political corruption on a scale that greatly offends much of the rest of the world, but having been born and raised in this environment, the majority of Americans remain totally clueless about it. Apologies in advance if this offends you. I am sure Richard does not mean to offend. He is just telling it straight because he values the right to free speech, something that seems to be becoming far less of a right in our modern day world. I have been called a "socialist" and a "communist" and "non-American" (whatever that is!) by Americans in the past simply for expressing my views. I can assure you I am neither a Socialist or a Communist, although I do have leanings towards the democratic left, which in the USA would probably be seen as the extreme left. The USA has been dominated by Conservative politics for so many centuries that it now seems to have its "left and right" confused. From my point of view, there is a 2-party oligarchy operating in the USA and both sides are fundamentally Right wing. In reality it does not have a left wing, and even the Greens party seems rather tame in the USA compared to other parts of the world. In any case, in the oligarchy of the United States, what chance has an impoverished party like the Greens have, with no links to religion or the very wealthy? None.

So in exercising my right to free speech, if Americans wish to entertain multi-millionaires in the White House who likes to play emperor and waste billions of dollars on a stupid wall across thousands of miles of empty desert, while so many in his own country go without, and while there is a chronic lack of social security or basic medical care for people on low incomes, well they are welcome to all of this. They are welcome to its many negative consequences, and that includes trampling over their nation's own constitution. If things continue the way they are, the US might as well melt down the so-called Liberty bell and send the Statue of Liberty with its now obsolete words of welcome to downtrodden foreigners back to France from whence it came. Just don't expect the rest of the (actually-more-free) parts of the world to sit back and be silent about it. The fact that many parts of the world are in fact more liberal and more free than the USA and have superior forms of Government with far less corruption and monetary waste often surprises many Americans. In fact most seem conditioned to not believe it.

Richard

2/5/2019 02:21:56 pm

Now we've had our excursion into politics, back to Zodiac now. These political debates never usually end well. That includes me.

Richard

2/5/2019 03:09:09 pm

No politics will be approved henceforth (and that includes me). As I stated above it never ends well. Much appreciated.

My Name Is Mine

2/5/2019 03:26:28 pm

Point taken and I would have to say "Now that I have had my rant, same goes for me too!" I should have learnt my lesson long ago, but for some reason I never do.

It seems to me there are a number of topics that never end well for those who start them:

1) emotive political issues,
2) baseless conspiracy theories,
3) far-fetched Numerology "connections",
4) Supernatural/psychic "connections",
5) Zodiac suspects and "pet" theories pertaining to them,
6) Zodiac cipher "solutions".

These are perhaps the 6 things best avoided on public forums. :-)

Rubislaw 32 link

2/6/2019 10:01:34 am

...if I might possibly add....I do think it important to bear in mind ''politics'',in a ''historical context'' to the case of the Zodiac [?].

''Contemporary'' politics serves its place elsewhere.

But on this current topic,for example,I think it important to understand such matters,as Texan's [...albeit justifiable...] historic prejudices against certain newspaper magnates.

That would include Joseph Pulitzer,as well as William Randolph Hearst,with regard to ''Yellow Journalism''.

''We'' have to be free to expose ''human frailty'',if it is pertinent,to understanding the case [?].

As for the most expensive divorce settlement,in history [Brexit]....or,the ''Great Wall of Mexico''....I would wish no part.

Comments are closed.

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