THE FOUR DOTS OF DEATH

8/29/2018

On December 30th 2013, Tahoe27 gave us the Wheel of Death from the Tim Holt comic book. It contained a Rota Fortunae style game in which Redmask would discover his fate based upon twelve methods of death.

The Zodiac Killer appeared to be inspired by the comic, either before or after his canonical crimes began on December 20th 1968, writing the words "by knife" on the car door of Bryan Hartnell's 1956 white Volkswagen Karmann Ghia. He may have hinted towards this comic when designing a crude code and drawing on the Fairfield letter, mailed on December 16th 1969. However, on October 27th 1970 the Halloween card contained a design depicting the four methods of death, all of which mirrored the cover of the Tim Holt comic book. In total, the twelve methods of death ran around a Zodiac styled wheel:

"In medieval and ancient philosophy the Wheel of Fortune, or Rota Fortunae, is a symbol of the capricious nature of Fate. The wheel belongs to the goddess Fortuna (Greek equivalent Tyche) who spins it at random, changing the positions of those on the wheel: some suffer great misfortune, others gain windfalls. Fortune appears on all paintings as a woman, sometimes blindfolded, "puppeteering" a wheel. The origin of the word is from the "wheel of fortune" - the zodiac, referring to the Celestial spheres of which the 8th holds the stars, and the 9th is where the signs of the zodiac are placed".

Nevertheless, the Zodiac Killer only chose four - death By Gun, By Rope, By Knife and By Fire. He also added a strange symbol to the card that has perplexed many an observer over the years - a symbol that has prompted many suggestions, including cattle branding, a depiction of Mount Diablo and a form of victim running total. The symbol may possibly be a joined Z and F, indicating that Zodiac is claiming fourteen victims, or maybe a joined Z, V and F symbolizing Zodiac Victims Fourteen. However, the four dots accompanying the symbol have always been difficult to explain with any degree of confidence. We have four methods of death chosen by Zodiac, therefore the possibility exists that the four dots are somehow related. What we may be looking for, could be Zodiac Victims Fourteen By Gun, By Rope, By Knife and By Fire. The Zodiac Killer in all likelihood drew inspiration for his 'methods of death'/Paradice and Slaves configuration from the Tim Holt comic book, so why should the strange symbol be any different.

If we superimpose the strange symbol Zodiac designed over the four 'methods of death' on the wheel of the Tim Holt comic book, the four dots land squarely over the four prescribed methods of death.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 05:46:44 am

Fascinating to see the four dots superimposed,on the comic page's image,Richard.

I had never realised,this before.

I have always seen this presumed abstract image symbol,as the Zodiac's eyes and car headlights,emerging from the ''scape'' of the Diablo mountains.

Everyone,to his own [?].

Of perhaps greater importance,is the significance of the employment of Rope,Gun,Knife and Fire.

The Gun and Knife,presumably self explanatory [?].

But ''Fire'' could be admissions of being an arsonist....or,the ''Chariot of Fire'',which represents the Zodiac's accomplice - his motorcar.

With ''Rope'' possibly referring to the Zodiac's washing line ties,with with which to secure his victims.

However,I have ''The Zodiac'' down for three murders,post Bay Area,where the victims were ordered to strip,with the perpetrator then strangling them,by method of ligature application.

Whether this be rope,or another form of cord,I do not know.

For another time,perhaps.

Richard

8/29/2018 08:06:09 am

If you take the 6 most commonly linked Zodiac crimes, you have the four canonical attacks, then Modesto and Lake Tahoe. The Kathleen Johns abduction didn't result in death, but was his intention death by fire, hence the burning of the vehicle. If so the Tim Holt wheel has the correct order the weapons were used.The first weapon was a gun at LHR and BRS, the second weapon was a knife at Berryessa, the third weapon was fire at Modesto. Was Donna Lass strangled by the Zodiac Killer?

Richard

8/29/2018 08:11:42 am

Possibly the mention of "by knife" at Berryessa was informing people he had an agenda to kill with different weapons, after all, it was pretty obvious the couple had been stabbed. Therefore, it isn't difficult to believe that the statement of "by knife" meant something more to the killer.

William S Carter link

12/21/2018 12:20:38 pm

Rubislaw, unfortunately you are not seeing a superimposed image over the cover of Red Mask. You are seeing someone "stretch" the facts to fit their ideas. That is not the original image. If the original image were laid over that cover it would not mark those points at all. I believe the mysterious VF symbol, which you are referring to, is actually a map. The problem being that the only people who know where that map applies...can be counted with one hand.

Merry Christmas All

Rubislaw 32 link

12/21/2018 01:43:19 pm

William S Carter,I was merely remarking ''of'' the observation.

I was not necessarily agreeing with the observation.

As stated : ''Everyone,to his own [?].''.

Richard

12/21/2018 02:29:06 pm

The idea proposed was presented as a thought or possibility. There was no stretching of any facts, because I don't endorse it as "solved" like the thousands of claims over the internet. When the Zodiac placed the mysterious symbol, it could just be a clue or pointer to the answer and didn't necessarily have to have been created to scale. It could be related to a map, but in reality, it is so vague, it is highly unlikely we will ever find the answer. You will get many claiming a definitive solve, as you do for virtually every aspect of the case. The word "solved" has unfortunately become meaningless in the Zodiac case.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 08:48:34 am

Good call,on ''Fire'' for the Johns abduction.

After all,Zodiac did own up for ''the woeman'',but it was hardly a frank admission.

Was Donna Lass ''strangled'' or by any means,by Zodiac,is the question.

My focus,at present,is more on the Betty Aardsma murder,as an ''extra'',in late November 1969.Although others might hurl things at me,I am inclined to believe that the Donna Lass disappearance,has,to an extent,been ''engendered'' by the Zodiac site fraternity.More particularly,those that believe in Larry Kane,as a viable suspect.

''Betty'',of course,was ''By Knife''.

Just on an entirely [..diplomatic word..] ''speculative'' matter,with regard to the three ''garottings'' previously mentioned,one would have been ''stripping and binding ankles and wrists'',under threat of a knife.

The other two,could have involved a knife,or a gun.

Richard

8/29/2018 09:11:58 am

On November 28th 1994, exactly 25 years after Betsy Aardsma's murder an employee of the library found a candle had been lit and placed in the location of the murder. A message written on the floor using a marker pen read "RIP Betsy Aardsma, born July 11th 1947, died November 28th 1969. I'm back."

Ring any bells: 1978 letter "I am back with you". Betsy Aardsma was murdered on November 28th 1969. Zodiac claimed 7 victims up to the end of October. Therefore, if the 'bleeding knife of Zodiac' was referencing the Aardsma murder, the 8 drops of blood from the knife drawing, would fit in with this stabbing. Four days later when the Belli letter arrived he was searching for number 9 and 10 for his victim count. Betsy Aardsma would have been victim 8 had Zodiac committed the crime or even claimed it.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 09:35:28 am

Extraordinary information,Richard.

I had not heard of the candle and ''I'm back'' story,which sends shivers down my spine.

Such a seemingly lovely young woman.

Given that I have compelling evidence that ''another law enforcement agency'' have taken custody of Joan Websrer's case file [March 2nd 2015],I have to wonder if Ms.Aardsma's file,hasn't similarly,been ''transferred'' [?].

Though Ms.Webster was abducted,in November 1981,both young women were,essentially,''East Coast'' and University girls.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 09:19:11 am

Yes,on the ''By Knife'' point,for discussion,Richard,what we probably can say,is a likelihood of Zodiac employing a bayonet,on Bryan and Cecilia,at Berryessa.

More specifically,a ''sword'' bayonet,which strictly speaking,isn't a knife.

So,''By Knife'' could have been written,on Halloween Card and Bryan's car door,in an ''ironic'' context [?].

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 10:03:14 am

And,if I might add....until we accept the Fairfield letter of December 16th 1969,with its ''The Bleeding Knife of Zodiac'',as genuine....

It will keep coming back,to haunt us.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 03:37:46 pm

This is great,Richard,and at least ''gives a dog a bone''.

Melvin Belli letter :

''....if I hold back too long from no nine [number nine] I will loose all controol of my self....''

So, Betsy Aardsma could be the missing ''number 8''.

''Geography'' throwing us,but time after time,Zodiac presents himself,to us,as a traveller.

Richard

8/29/2018 03:48:20 pm

The murder of Betsy Aardsma was, to one day, three years after The Confession Letter, mailed by the alleged murderer of Cheri Jo Bates on November 29th 1966. The Riverside Desktop Poem read "blood spurting, dripping, spilling all over her new dress. Oh well it was red anyway." Betsy Aardsma was wearing a red dress on the day she was killed, that temporarily disguised the severity of her injury.
Maybe the Riverside Desktop Poem was later to be enacted.

Richard

8/29/2018 03:51:35 pm

A postcard was also mailed to police sometime in the 1970's with the wording "You never did catch the guy who killed that c**t in the library."

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 04:19:39 pm

''Wow'' on the postcard,also.

Perhaps getting ahead of myself,but Joan Webster was last seen,leaving Logan Airport,on the evening of November 28th 1981,and is believed to have been murdered,within a few hours...into the early hours of November 29th 1981.

''That'' composite of ''The Bearded Man'',is based on the witness account of a taxi driver,at Logan Airport,who had a face to face argument,with ''The Bearded Man'',accompanying Ms.Webster.

Spooky.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 05:10:26 pm

A D.A,'s explanation,to an inquiry into Ms.Webster's case file,March 2nd 2015,and,in the public domain :

''As we then informed you,this office in co-operation with other law enforcement agencies,had renewed the investigation into Miss Webster's murder,prior to your request.This coincided with the renewal of investigations into other unsolved,and possibly connected murders,from that era.''.

4 days prior,on February 27th 2015,a ''senior advocate'' ordered the re-investigation into the murder of Brenda Page [July 14th 1978].

Brenda Page was a University lecturer/researcher,and moonlighting escort.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/29/2018 07:13:42 pm

Betsy Aardsma's red dress,may have cost her,her life [?].

I'm stunned.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/30/2018 02:25:45 am

....Of course,I've been heavily into reading up on Ms.Aardsma's murder,this morning.Possibly the same with you,Richard [?].

A huge library,the murder took place,n the second floor.Normally,there would have been 100's of students....but it was Thanksgiving,with an estimated 90 students,inside.

Her perpetrator,a right-handed man,came from behind her,and plunged a 3 3/4 - 4 inch hunting blade into breastbone,requiring estimated immense strength.Her heart bled mostly into her lungs.

Not a single cry uttered,and someone only became alerted,when some library books fell to the floor.An estimated six minutes elapsed,before she was found,and it is likely that her killer told someone that knew her,where to find her....before vanishing.

A lot to take in....not least,a possible link,between the Desk Top Poem,and Zodiac's ''eighth'' victim [?].

Richard

8/30/2018 05:21:31 am

The murder of Betsy Aardsma was certainly a daring attack, committed in a library during the day. If I had to guess, I would say the perpetrator was known to the victim and the stabbing likely unplanned. The individual, by the fact he was carrying a knife in the first place, is likely an undesirable of low morality and unfortunately for Betsy Aardsma became acquainted with him in some way. He becomes fixated on her, similar to CJB and suffered rejection badly. The fact the crime was committed in an open and risky setting showed little forethought to the crime, but equally restricted the killer to one deadly strike. Unless the perpetrator was some random lunatic, I tend to go with a killer who knew the victim, and vice versa. I doubt therefore it was the Zodiac Killer, nevertheless, the Fairfield letter is interestingly timed.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/30/2018 05:59:07 am

Good that you take a balanced approach,to this possibly tantalising event,and how it could fit in with,what we usually view,as a ''Bay Area'' phenomenon.

The rejection/fixation angle would,one would think,be the first ''motive'' angle,for investigating police [?].

I gather now,that Betsy's medical student boyfriend,received a pretty heavy ''going over'',on police interviews,but came out clean.

Predictably,I'm going back to that Fairfield letter,Richard.

''By Knife'' still might have more to yield.

Richard

8/30/2018 06:29:45 am

''By Knife'' still might have more to yield."
I believe your 100% correct. I have been looking exhaustively over all of Zodiac's material over the last two days, particularly the Halloween card, as you can guess by my last 2 posts. There is definitely more to this "by knife" than just two scribblings. The search goes on. I'm certain there is one massive thing just waiting to be discovered.

Tom M

8/30/2018 07:45:03 pm

There are not 12 methods of death on the wheel. What am I missing? This stuff is confusing enough for an oulde guy.

Richard

8/30/2018 10:56:01 pm

If you go to the second post on the forum, the wheel shows 12 methods of death
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=1275#p13032

Rubislaw 32 link

8/30/2018 01:46:38 pm

Just to possibly add something [....before it drives me batty,and I must move on to other aspects....],on the ''By Knife'' conundrum :

In writing,we have :

Bryan's car door : by knife [authenticated]

Fairfield letter [12/16/69] : The bleeding knife of Zodiac [unauthenticated]

The Halloween Card : By KNIFE

If we believe Zodiac,on his claim of 7 victims,and his fear of a ninth victim,express to Melvin Belli....then there is an eighth victim ''missing''.The eight drops of blood,in the Fairfield etching,could be a confirmation,from Zodiac,of acknowledging the ''8 count''.

The ''8 count'' may even have inspired Zodiac,into introducing the ''8 Ball'' symbol,in the ''My name is ----'' cipher [?].

If Zodiac did kill an eighth victim,with a knife,such as Betsy Aardsma,it may have signified the point,where Zodiac admitted to himself,that he had ''crossed the line''.....parlance,in police investigation,when there is recognition,that a serial killer,starts killing for the pleasure of the act,itself.....as opposed to a reason for killing,in the first place.

I tend to feel that ''By Knife'' does have extra significance for Zodiac....but it could be,because ''By Knife'' represents ''the being'' of Zodiac,as a person,himself.

''That'',perhaps,Zodiac is ''By Knife''....a product of a Caesarean birth.

Only surviving,on the basis that he was cut from his mother's womb.

art

8/30/2018 02:02:13 pm

Ok, slide 10 here (see link below) is interesting regarding that odd symbol on the postcard...

https://zodiacconfessed.wordpress.com/cards-letters/halloween-card/

Rubislaw 32 link

8/30/2018 04:07:03 pm

Interesting site,and nicely laid out graphics,art.

Do you have an opinion,yourself ?

art

8/31/2018 10:10:25 am

Hi Rubislaw, well the explanation of the symbol on that website seems reasonable; I'm not sure I've seen any other reasonable explanations anywhere else (?). The symbol definitely seems to be a signature/identity based on its placement on the envelope and card. So to find that the symbol translates to initials is more or less what I was expecting...

Rubislaw 32 link

8/31/2018 02:53:37 am

While I see it,Richard,the J Edgar Hoover letter : Did you notice that it was signed ''I remain yours truly'' ?

I realise that not much gets past you,but thought it worth noting.

Although I am a ''refuter'' of Zodiac's responsibility for the disappearance of Donna Lass,he nevertheless,saw opportunities to ''buy in'' to the misery of those associated,with bereavement.

The schadenfreude,wrapped up in his sadism [?].

So,it seems to me that the handwriting,linked to Mary Pike,J Edgar Hoover and Kimberly Lawrence [....''The Silenced Badge'',page 251..],are worth a ''butchers''.

On another style of handwriting,that which is featured in ''murderpedia'',as possibly attributed to the New York Zodiac,appears to have remarkable similarities to correspondence available,in the FBI files,which sends out directives for various law enforcement agencies,to meet,with regard to the murder of Joan Webster.

Someone claims,that it is from Ms.Webster's father,George....an ex-CIA man,who was quite a dominating person.

I think it is from the person,''impersonating'' the New York Zodiac [Seda].

The [Bay Area] Zodiac Killer,did appear to adopt ''spidery'' handwriting,if his later [unconfirmed] correspondence,is to be believed [?].

Was variety of handwriting styles,a real gift of the Zodiac ?

Could be .

Richard

8/31/2018 04:06:13 am

The 'Yours Truly' is interesting within Zodiac believed letters, although in a wider context it is such a common way, along with "yours sincerely" to sign of letters we have to be guarded in attributing too much significance to it. The Joan Webster story I have not read to any great detail, so might have to change that. I have grave doubts about some of the proclaimed letters of 1974, not only based on handwriting, but their brevity. Admittedly, I did do a comparison of handwriting in the John Edgar Hoover letter to the Mary Pilker letter, despite the fact I take handwriting analysis with a pinch of salt. It's not an accredited scientific discipline, and as such, should only used as corroborating evidence in any trial.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/31/2018 04:44:09 am

Yes,agreed on the ''pinch of salt'' overview.

I believe that there are some handwriting experts,that are well trained,and can offer something meaningful,in the domain of criminal forgery.

One of the ''eye openers'' for a case,such as that of the Zodiac Killer,where constant extortion is enacted,with the written word,is that handwriting experts have shown themselves,woefully short of all the perceived necessary skills.

The greater range of skills,that a Documents Examiner acquires,is perhaps,another kettle of fish.

''We'' are probably still short on entirely grasping the entirety of ''By Knife'' [?].

But personally,I feel I have a greater understanding of the nature of Zodiac's ''whining and moaning'' to Melvin Belli.

I think that Zodiac realised that,for all the ''highs'' and ''victories'',that he had achieved,in exactly one year,since LHR....that it hadn't made him feel better about himself,overall.

And,that he now realised that he had actually acquired an addiction to killing,as a pleasurable pursuit.

No hope for him,then,without getting caught ?

Unfortunately for the law abiding pubic,Zodiac hadn't banked on Law Enforcement's propensity for incompetence.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/31/2018 11:20:19 am

Hi art - most interesting,what you have to say.

I'm looking at that site,in general terms,with its variety of potentially pertinent visual explanations.I don't think,for example,that we can really dismiss the Swedish/Nordic symbols.

But the VF or ZF symbol,is likely to be a ''modification'',on Fred Harman's ''Flying VF'' symbol.

So...then it comes down to ''what'' precisely,has the Zodiac modified it to [?].

There has always been a part of me,that thinks ''signature'',as you have pointed out.But ''what'',specifically.

So,I've moved my position back to this,on account of your suggestion.

The ''VF'' part,I think,could be a slightly abstract form of ''MR'',which,of course,stands for ''Mister''.

Hence,''MR.Z''.......the shorted form of ''Mister Zodiac''.

This,in essence,is what I concluded,lies behind the Marianne Moore postage stamp,on the 1990 Celebrity Cipher Card.

With of course,the FBI,and agencies,having full knowledge of this,since they naturally removed the postage stamp,to have a look.

Thanks for this ''signature'' suggestion.....and genuinely so.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/31/2018 11:30:04 am

.....the evolution of ''influence'',comes in all sorts of ways.

Richard

8/31/2018 12:29:49 pm

The first generation Firebird had characteristic Coke bottle styling shared with its cousin, the Chevrolet Camaro. Announcing a Pontiac styling trend, the Firebird's bumpers were integrated into the design of the front end, giving it a more streamlined look than the Camaro. The Firebird's rear "slit" taillights were inspired by the 1966–1967 Pontiac GTO. Both a two-door hardtop and a convertible were offered through the 1969 model year. Originally, the car was a "consolation prize" for Pontiac, which had desired to produce a two-seat sports car based on its original Banshee concept car. However, GM feared this would cut into Chevrolet Corvette sales, and gave Pontiac a piece of the "pony car" market through sharing the F-body platform with Chevrolet.

The 1967 base model Firebird came equipped with the Pontiac 230 cu in (3.8 L) SOHC inline-six. Based on the standard Chevrolet 230 cu in (3.8 L) inline-six, it was fitted with a single-barrel carburetor and rated at 165 hp (123 kW).

Zodiac arrived at Berryessa in his Firebird (by fire), held up the couple with a gun (by gun), tied them up with washing line (by rope) and stabbed them (by knife). The exact order on the Halloween card. The Firebird was similar to the Chevrolet Camaro, and the three girls spotted a Chevrolet. The fire component is a bit weak I know, but to keep the Halloween card in order the fire part of Berryessa must come before the gun.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/31/2018 12:51:26 pm

Fascinated about The Firebird,Richard.

So good that something extra,has been put on the table.

Must have taken a fair bit of research [?].

8/31/2018 02:36:15 pm

Rubislaw 32 and Richard

Also, The Exorcist letter symbol is surely the word "Knife" jumbled up.

And, his identity could be by the words "By Knife" in the Cipher.

Another thing. The knife was not crackproof on Oct.30, 1966 ... it broke.

Richard

8/31/2018 02:53:34 pm

Can get the k,n,i and f, but not the e.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/31/2018 03:05:49 pm

Latest news,on a ''suspect'' :

''If Mexico convicts him,they could keep him for a very long time.I would like to see him tried here !''.

With regard to protecting the ''news'' :

''The trolls are quickly removed by Tom V.,so there are not the insulting comments that take away from the story,like at Grinell's site.''.

You know that you have ''arrived'',when they only refer to you,by your surname [?].

8/31/2018 03:47:16 pm

The line with the dot on top is obviously the letter "i" while the little dot underneath and aways below is the "e" (it is off by itself to hide in plain sight as a mistake).

It can be seen better viewed under a magnifying glass.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/31/2018 04:25:55 pm

It's always worth pulling the Exorcist doodle out for examination,BB.

Many interpretations offered.Fair do's.

My only annoyance is when ''some'' start moving bits about.

A personal take is,that the letter ''i'' to which you refer,is actually a tadpole.

The whole ''ensemble'' is one great big doodle,from the Zodiac,designed to keep us guessing.Naturally,he has succeeded.

I see the complete doodle,as representing an bird's eye view of San Francisco Bay,where a submarine,is being attended to,by tugs and support vessels.The extra ''spore'' and ''tadpole'' is in jest,just to remind the observer,that the doodle has a maritime theme.

What I believe that Zodiac is indicating is,that although usually commuting to the Bay Area [Vallejo],by motorcar [...probably from Los Angeles....]....that,on occasion,he would fly instead....and this sort of view would capture his attention,while his plane was preparing to land,at San Francisco Airport.

Simply,a personal interpretation.

Richard

9/1/2018 04:21:35 am

I've always seen the Exorcist symbols as a continuation from the last paragraph. "If I do not see this note in your paper, I will do something nasty, which you know I'm capable of doing." Knife.
This above example doesn't flow. If it had said "If I do not see this note in your paper, I will do something nasty, which you know I'm capable of doing." by knife. This has a better flow, as does "If I do not see this note in your paper, I will do something nasty, which you know I'm capable of doing." To Kill- suggested by Kevin Robert Brooks and the example I like the best. I'm not keen on a map idea, as these symbols could be overlayed over hundreds of different map images with a correlation, and claimed to be the correct one.
Each to their own, but I believe they are a partially disguised word.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/1/2018 04:59:01 am

Often,whatever anyone chips in with,can appear patronising,at best.

But I sense,Richard and BB,that we are getting to the crux of the point.

That being,that in all probability,Zodiac was wanting the observer,to figuratively see,the word ''Knife'',or possibly even ''KIll''.

This form of abstract ''false telegraphing'' is observed ''countless'' times.in his work.

The ''My name is ----'' cipher,with ''want to know name''/Vietnam.

The 1990 Celebrity Cipher,with ''Oakland,CA''.

Just last week,I spotted[....similar to...] ''HEMUARRK'' on the ''408'',which is ''more than probably'' a play on famous disc jockey,''Murray the K'',also known as ''The Fifth Beatle''.

The ''list'' really does go on,and to call Zodiac,''The Picasso of Lexicography'',is not underestimating,his inclinations on mind set.

I'm sticking with the submarine and tugs [...and even a pontoon bridge,with which submariners disembarked...].

But I do see,so often,others falling ''hook,line and sinker'',for Zodiac's little traps...his red herrings.....his ''clews''.

9/1/2018 09:32:43 am

The flow makes sense - and the map is creative but I don't think Zodiac was either logical or with heart like the two of you gents represent in my mind. I think the Z was crazy. As such, I don't think it was a flowing thing he wanted to convey. But always a new symbol. In this, I think he was trying to morph into a new thing. He had to change and distract in order to move-on. Those thoughts of how they fought back, and it was horrible - kept playing over and over. The wheel in his mind would never stop spinning long enough to let him rest... The Knife was the new symbol he was preoccupied with. It was his pacifier. His new toy.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/1/2018 10:05:54 am

I think you are close,BB.

If we consider it too long,we start to accuse ourselves of believing that we are psychologists.

Interesting that we are back on the ''Knife'' subject [?].The ''Knife'',as you infer,could have represented a transition,for Zodiac.

If he used it,he really was at ''close quarters'' with the victim,who would be spilling part of their physiological selves,on to Zodiac.

A bit different,from the bullet of a well aimed gun [?].

And,possibly,an eighth victim,whom we have yet to identify,was ''by knife'',and the one that confirmed Zodiac's fears,as he tried to articulate to Belli.

Now,Zodiac actually enjoyed the ritual,which technically or otherwise,had become ''sado-sexual''.

But,as a general overview,we might be able to conclude that,Zodiac had recognised that the ''belligerence'' inside him,wasn't going to go away.

The ''one man army'' against the world,would continue.

BB short for blue belly

9/1/2018 06:50:57 pm

I apologize for coming across as weird. But, it appears the Knife symbolizes the Zodiacs penis. Sex and violence are fused in his psyche. Death morphs into the orgasm while - as you say. "Now, Zodiac actually enjoyed the ritual, which technically or otherwise,had become ''sado-sexual''." For which I very truly agree.The Knife represented the sex organ, and killing was then the act of sex - for this lunatic.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/1/2018 11:58:23 pm

Within the context of what we are discussing,BB,you don't come across as weird,at all.

And,if you did.....then ''we'' are all weird [!].

I think you have come closest,with the knife being symbolic,of something transitory.To what extent,and how that is wrapped up,in something sexually related,is up for debate.

The knife could well represent Zodiac's sexual organ.

My feelings are that ascertaining that eighth victim,and its circumstances,could be the missing piece,in the jigsaw puzzle of understanding.

We just seem to be shy,on absolute confirmation.

Betsy Aardsma seems to tick the boxes....late November 1969 date,Co-ed,red dress,.....and ''by knife''.

Paul Stine was the assumed seventh victim.Zodiac back to using a gun,out of necessity related to the nature of Zodiac's particular crime.

But,had Cecelia Shepard's murder awakened something in Zodiac,that he did not expect ?

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 12:26:52 am

.....maybe Richard,you can confirm that Zodiac stabbed Cecelia,24 times [?].If so,that is quite a ''by knife'' job on her.

After Stine,I don't believe Zodiac ever killed a man,again.

If Betsy was his eighth,the beginnings of a possible pattern of change,could be seen to be emerging.....and,in light of what Zodiac wrote to Belli....plus accepting the Fairfield etching as genuine....plus the selection of the ''Eight Ball'',after ''accepted'' eight drops of blood,on that ''Bleeding Knife'' etching.

''Come in number 8 - your time is up.''

Richard

9/2/2018 01:09:36 am

No, but I can confirm she was stabbed 10 times and despite not playing dead Zodiac left.
http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pid=939#top_display_media

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 03:56:31 am

Thanks,and I'm glad I checked with you.''24'' was my last reading.The way numbers are just banded about.....

Yes,we could really do with finding Zodiac's eighth victim,and the circumstances of that person's death.

By [seemingly] Zodiac's inference,I don't think that he made it up.

He just failed to actually mention it,and more than probably,for a reason...along the lines of what BB has indicated.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 07:48:19 am

If anyone takes a further interest in the subject of ''Zodiac's Eighth Victim'',then I suggest the following time parameters :

i] November 9th 1969 : Zodiac's Bus Bomb letter - Zodiac in a joyful mood,still alluding to Paul Stine's murder.Essentially,six pages of showing off.

ii] December 16th 1969 : ''Zodiac's'' second Fairfield letter - Zodiac in a joyful mood,telling the people of California,that their State was in trouble.''The Bleeding Knife of Zodiac'',plus '' ha! ha! ha! ''.

Hence,the likelihood of a time frame,between November 9th and December 16th.This represents 37 days,or approximately 5 weeks.

Betsy Aardsma's murder falls close to the mid-point,of this time frame.

Any further candidate murder victims,would be gratefully received.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 01:11:42 pm

Robert Graysmith alludes to two victims,in that time frame :

Elaine Louise Davis -Aged 17-went missing December 1st 1969,while babysitting her infant sister-Walnut Creek,CA-Her coat and shoe,found on Highway 17,near Santa Cruz-Though not identified until 2001,her body was recovered,December 19th 1969-Believed to have been strangled-Had complained of being stalked by a man,with a ''small blue car'',in the days leading up to her disappearance.

Leona Roberts,aged 16-Appears to have been abducted from her boyfriend's home,in Napa,December 10th 1969-A man reported as about 25,blonde,driving a blue Station Wagon,was seen in the vicinity-Her body found December 28th 1969-Technically,died of exposure,but is believed to have been choked-Stripped naked,with wrists and ankles bound-Believed to have been held captive,for up to 14 days.

Graysmith had Ms.Roberts down,as Zodiac's 10th victim.In light of Zodiac's letter to Melvin Belli,''this'' just does not add up.

Perhaps we can say,then,that Ms.Davis[strangulation],and Ms.Aardsma[''by knife''],remain possibles,for ''Victim No.8''.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 02:20:42 pm

If we examine the case of Elaine Davis,we find that when her body was recovered,on December 19th 1969,from waters of Light House Point,local to Walnut Creek,she was mistaken for a woman in her mid twenties.In addition,her teeth had been bashed out.

Therefore,unidentified,she was eventually interned in a graveyard for the homeless.A cold case detective came cross records,thirty years later,with her body then exhumed,and identity revealed.

But,full transparency of the circumstances of her death,by then,were clearly ''speculative''.

One is tempted to think that,if Zodiac was responsible for the death of Ms.Davis,then,he may have heard of the recovery of ''a body'' on December 19th....prompting him to immediately write to Melvin Belli,expressing his despair of his new found addiction,to killing for pleasure.

As BB alludes to,it is very possible that the symbol of a knife,had come to represent,this addiction ''awareness'' for the Zodiac.

Whether Zodiac's [possibly] eighth victim was ''by knife'',or not,the symbolism of a knife thrusting and penetrating a woman,was akin to having sex...but maybe,even better.

My personal inclinations are that,like BB,the knife had become an extension of Zodiac's ''private member''.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 05:03:19 pm

....I see now that ''Lighthouse point'' is just north of Monterrey Bay.The same jurisdiction[Santa Cruz county],as where Elaine's coat and shoe were found.

So,in keeping with Zodiac's decision,probably,to move outside his home base,for killing,after Blue Springs Rock.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 03:16:30 pm

Hey....and I recommend that a closer look,at Bryan's car door,is made.

Check out the ''scorecard'',then....

Question : What is pointing at the ''scorecard'' ?

Answer : The car door handle.

Question : What does the car door handle resemble ?

Answer : One guess....it's obvious.

9/2/2018 03:21:19 pm

http://www.scsheriff.com/Home/UnsolvedHomicides/Homicides69-1574.aspx

By rope Deborah Lee Shelton was strangled literally with her panties.

This murder was on Doomsday aka Daliday January 3, 1969

She was last seen on Rio Del Mar Blvd. near the golf course [upper class officers like golf and the Mikado and Greek life, secret codes, the horses, hazing/bulling]. Always these golf courses in the near by area makes me think he may have had a number of memberships to area golf clubs. This may have been the Zodiac - the killer called the victim's mother possible to taunt and get another kind of thrill terrorizing, and wanting someone to see his work. Like a predator the Zodiac liked the hunt and the kill, but like my cat leaves dead animals on the porch to impress, Z liked to show off.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 05:31:15 pm

Interesting,and terribly sad case,BB.

I'm not sure that Zodiac liked his victims,that young [12] ?

Also,the ransom angle,doesn't fit Zodiac.

I wonder what made Santa Cruz County,''The murder capital of the world'' [?].

I do struggle to concentrate,when I hear the word ''Psychic''
[...slightly in jest....not..]

9/2/2018 05:55:32 pm

Ya, the ransom was certainly never going anywhere since he never planned on giving her back. I think he was just playing with his prey.
By the by, wasn't Ross Sullivan living near by? ''Psychic'' I didn't get that reference?

Rubislaw 32 link

9/2/2018 06:09:04 pm

Possible that it was a false ransom....that's the sort of thing Zodiac might get up to ''after'' killing.One wonders if this perpetrator,might have already killed Deborah,by then [?].

Interesting about a possible Sullivan link.

The ''Psychic'' reference,was only to the site....they obviously have a thing about that side to True Crime.

I gather Lt,Husted,who was Chief officer of the Vallejo Police,in the seventies,was heavily into psychics,hypnotism,and even Ouija Boards.

A complete eccentric,who constantly smoked a pipe,apparently.

9/2/2018 07:07:09 pm

got it - thanx
About the # 24
* the Greek alphabet has 24 letters*
Maybe it is a Zodiac hint.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/3/2018 02:11:25 am

Just to make a point,on age of victims....and obviously up for discussion and debate :

In law,an expression,such as ''age of consent'' is precisely ''that''...and often,the law applying to criminal perpetration of a 5 year old,might be exactly the same as a 15 year old.

''Statutory Rape'',for example.

When Zodiac talked,in menacing terms,about ''kids'' and ''kiddies'',it was,like his bombs,a complete ruse....merely to maximise fear,by buying into the worst of people's fears....like the concern for their children's safety.

This was Zodiac,''perfecting'' the ''art'' of terrorism.

But,when he did make such threats,in writing,as an act of extortion....the authorities could not afford to take him,anything less than seriously.

The ''art'' of ''threats by menacing means''.

One of the reasons that Arthur Leigh Allan became a high proile suspect,was because he was a convicted paedophile.But really,it was a case of the authorities loosing sight of the ''reality'' of their obligated ''policy''.

Zodiac was never into young ''kids''.

And,sometimes wen he used the word ''Cid'',it was,in his mind,deliberately ambiguous.

''Cid'' means ''master'' or ''lord'',in Spanish,and I believe I have given compelling evidence to L.E.,that he had used ''Cid'',in reference to J Edgar Hoover.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/3/2018 02:45:13 am

.......and,if I might add [,,,accepting,of course,that it is up for discussion...] :

Zodiac's ''bombs'' and his bomb diagrams,are ''Heath Robinson'' nonsense,and would have never worked,in the way Zodiac suggested,that they might.

Again,the authorities knew this,but could not be seen to take Zodiac,anything but seriously.

The diagrams and his explanations serve a purpose,in that we might better see,into the mind of a serial killer....and,as BB has intimated,a ''lunatic''.

There is possible evidence,that,later on,Zodiac had perfected the science of damaging incendiary devices.But these devices are a long way short of what we perceive,as a ''bomb''.

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