THE 'CONCERNED CITIZEN' CARD [PT2]

11/5/2018

As explained in the previous article, there appears little doubt that the author of the "concerned citizen" card had read the August 9th 1969 San Francisco Chronicle article entitled 'A Murder Code is Broken'. The article clearly stated that Donald Harden's worksheets had been forwarded from the Chronicle to the Vallejo Police Department (which would obviously contain the cipher key and method of decryption). It stated "Vallejo Police Sergeant John Lynch, in charge of the investigation of the murders and of the cipher letter writer, asked The Chronicle to send Harden's code breaking worksheets to him for further checking; which was done." The wording "cipher letter writer" is an unusual combination of words, that apparently didn't go unnoticed by the "concerned citizen" author, who used the same sequence in his opening gambit: "I hope the enclosed "key" will prove to be beneficial to you in connection with the cipher letter writer." This should be proof enough that the "concerned citizen" had read the Chronicle article, knew the code had been broken, and knew Donald Harden's worksheets had already been sent to the Vallejo Police Department and Sergeant John Lynch. Therefore, do you have to question the integrity of the "concerned citizen" regarding the motivation behind his August 10th 1969 mailing?

Click for full article

The Vallejo Times-Herald also broke the story on August 9th 1969, stating "Lynch talked to Harden and said, "I'm convinced he has it solved". He said he would talk to him again today. Meanwhile Lynch has Harden's worksheets and is studying and comparing them with the three-part cryptogram and the translation."

So, having presumably read all this, was the "concerned citizen" just a helpful member of the public attempting to corroborate the Harden's solution, or did the Zodiac Killer, knowing his cipher had been broken quickly, begin playing a game of 'cat and mouse'. The author of the "concerned citizen" card didn't want to give the Vallejo Police Department his name for fear it would be published in the newspapers, just like Zodiac stated in the 408 - but did the anonymous card reveal his identity?

The "concerned citizen" card only contained 69 words, so why did the sender bother to type the message rather than write a handwritten message or simply capitalize the text. When he wrote the cipher key he capitalized the alphabetical letters to mirror the 408, so what purpose was behind him choosing not to do this in his message?

The sender would certainly not have given away his identity by using upper case lettering in the message (as he had already done it in the key), nevertheless, he chose to type it anyway. If the author was the Zodiac Killer, did he believe, that by using capitals in his message rather than handwriting it may have been construed as suspicious, so opted to use a typewriter for a more professional approach and give the card a level of credibility. Opting to write the message in his normal handwriting would obviously have given the game away. He also may have thought it easier to type the message rather than make the effort to disguise his handwriting. The cipher key was obviously written rather than typed because of the unusual characters present within the 408 cipher not being available on a standard typewriter.

Click to enlarge

This is all very speculative, however, with very little to indicate one way or another as to the identity of the "concerned citizen", feeding on scraps may be the only avenue. Was the sender of the August 10th correspondence simply being a helpful citizen wanting to corroborate the Harden's solution, or Zodiac attempting to regain a semblance of lost pride by surreptitiously offering a lending hand to the Vallejo Police Department, declaring "I do not wish to have my name in the papers".

This may have been the Zodiac Killer's idea of a joke after having previously stated "I want you to print this cipher on the front page of your paper. In this cipher is my idenity." This contradiction certainly wouldn't have been lost on a killer who craved attention at every turn. A killer who was prepared to confuse with "name" and "identity" in his first communications with the newspapers would not be averse to creating similar parallels with "signature" or "name" in the "concerned citizen" card, just ten days later.

THE CONCERNED CITIZEN CARD [PT1] THE CONCERNED CITIZEN CARD [PT3]

Courtesy of Mike Morford

Concerned Citizen Key

Drew

11/5/2018 11:07:37 am

Nice work on this tricky issue Richard. I wonder what Sherwood Morril's thoughts were. I don't believe they were publicized. I agree that the Concerned Citizen had read the article, which is how he knew to address his work to Lynch, and copied the awkward cipher letter writer phrase. Taking to the typewriter (possibly a Royal), using proper English and postage do seem like plausible precautions that Zodiac could have taken to avoid transparency. If it was Zodiac though the intention remains unclear. Perhaps it was an inside joke as you suggest or rather pathetically he wished to downplay the Hardins' achievement in print by suggesting that they were not the only ones to solve it.

I wonder if police would find the same characteristics under the stamp as the confirmed letters. Apparently one latent print was found on the envelope. Would a citizen concerned about his anonymity be so concerned as to wear gloves, even while preparing the worksheet? To my knowledge they have not made public what they found on the letter itself, only the envelope. If fingerprints/no prints were one of the main determinants used to authenticate the Zodiac correspondences it may be telling that this Concerned Citizen letter remained in the box with the rest of the evidence that was made viewable to Tom Voigt last year. If it was revealed that no unaccounted for prints were discovered that would surely pour doubt on the idea that it was sent from someone else who had cracked the code and wanted some version of credit or sense of closure. I suppose that even though its importance was known at this time that tracking down and comparing any mailroom handlers would possibly be too daunting and time consuming a task to undergo. Has any law enforcement official ever commented on this correspondence to your knowledge?

Here is a link to Tom's video where the latent print is mentioned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TebQb8ioL8A

Richard

11/5/2018 11:44:41 am

Good point Drew about downplaying the Harden's achievement, that is certainly possible. Apart from criptograms, one missing comma, and the mistyped "mentiond" which was more likely accidental, the fact his grammar was relatively good, this could indicate an innocent mailer, or Zodiac could really spell after all. He, as you point out, would be careful to apply only one stamp to the letter.
Since we've been discussing the lack of salivary amylase on literally all the early Zodiac communications, probably a testing of this stamp could provide a good comparison. If it has plenty of DNA, such as the Exorcist and 78 letter, it may indicate that the "concerned citizen" card was really from a concerned citizen.
The fingerprint issue has been so contentious, I highly doubt we can prove much on that front to everyone's satisfaction. Obviously fingerprints on the exterior of the communication would likely be meaningless as a reliable indicator.
I don't know if law enforcement has commented on this correspondence. If they have, I haven't seen it as yet. It would be handy to get some inside information Drew.
It's a crying shame the Riverside Confession letter wasn't in lower case. The FBI files mentioned the typewriter had errors attached to it. I could find the "a" but didn't look any further into the typewritten message any further because I was scouring the internet for other typed letters attached to murderers. It would be nice to get the typed July 19th 1978 typewritten letter from Los Angeles arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle stating:
"I am the ZODIAC and I am in control of all things. I am going to tell you a secret. I like friction tape. I like to have it around in case I need to truss someone up in a hurry....I have my real name on a small metallic tape. You see, while you have it in your possession, I want you to know it belongs to me and you think I may have left it accidentally. I am athletic. It could be swim fins, or a piece of scuba gear. But maybe you play chess with me. I have several cheap sets in closets all over. I have my name on the bottom of the lid with the scotch tape....My tape is waiting for me all over California. Do you know me? I am the ZODIAC and I am in control."

Drew

11/5/2018 12:15:06 pm

It would be interesting to read a comparison to the typewritten friction tape letter. I wonder why a photo of said letter was never released. Perhaps it did indeed have a leftward leaning lower case a. That would certainly be an eye opener impressively kept under wraps. Imagining for a moment though that Zodiac and the Riverside Killer were one in the same, the Confession letter author did take the precaution of photocopying the crap out of his typed message and disguising the letterhead and/or original paper size so we might view any continued use of the same uniquely identifiable typewriter (after the lower case Concerned Citizen letter) as a rather boneheaded oversight in an otherwise carefully laid out ruse. Nevertheless it would be interesting to see and considering how much of the case has been publicly revealed it remains curious that they haven't let us see it.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/5/2018 12:20:46 pm

Just good to see the July 19th 1978 letter,written up,again.

I tried to get a British newspaper interested,recently....but,they don't seem to have the patience,until something Zodiac related,actually breaks.

I'll see where the Sacramento Bee leads me.

Mr.Graysmith,an honest citizen,should have nothing to fear [?].

Perhaps,he requires a financial incentive [?].

I should be so cheeky.

Richard

11/5/2018 03:20:05 pm

Dave Oranchak stated the concerned citizen of the key is saying “the cipher text symbol Q is used to represent plain text letters F, K, L, and M.” There is a simple error here, because there are actually two Q symbols. The symbol is used for the plain text letter F, and the symbol is used for the plain text letter M. OK, so the author of the key combined both symbols. But where do “K” and “L” come from? How did the key author deduce those from the Hardens’ plaintext solution?

Why would the Zodiac Killer mail in an incorrect section of cipher key. Had he thrown the draft away as soon as he mailed the 408, so as to rid any evidence from his residence [1] in case law enforcement came knocking or [2] because his wife or family members didn't spot the cipher key. Then when the newspaper showed the solution he cobbled together a cipher key based upon the newspaper article. Whether a concerned citizen or Zodiac, they got this section horribly wrong.

Shawn

11/5/2018 06:08:42 pm

I think there is not much suspicious regarding the concerned citizen card.

A serial killer was on the loose. Most people would not want their name published in the newspaper in regards to the Zodiac case.

Many long term investigators on the internet, even today, do not give their full name because of potential harassment that has occurred to people involved in researching the Zodiac Case.

Richard

11/6/2018 12:51:50 am

I agree, I don't fall either way on this topic. It could be Zodiac, or could be a conscientious citizen wishing to help. It just falls under the banner of another intriguing discussion of many. With the limited information available on the "concerned citizen" card, it is more down to feelings rather than facts when assessing such material. Anybody claiming 100% certainty one way or the other is not being truthful. You may suspect it is Zodiac, but that is the best one can deduce.

Richard

11/6/2018 01:06:58 am

The temptation with many of the dubious material, is a wanting for them to be Zodiac. It is much more interesting if they were Zodiac material than not, and it is this wanting that can cloud your judgement into belief. The Riverside letters and desktop, 1986 letter, 1978 letter etc add to the flavour of the debate surrounding the Zodiac mystery, so the willingness to want them to be true Zodiac correspondence can tilt you into needing them to be, rather than accepting that they may likely not be genuine. The same could be applied to the murders - the more he committed the more talking points we have. The question marks that have arisen over certain Zodiac crimes, in particular Lake Berryessa is almost an affront to remove 25% of Zodiac's confirmed attacks in one fell swoop. The search often lends to expanding the Zodiac case, not reducing it, and as such, we are often more open to new Zodiac influences as being credible rather than not. Keeping a neutral stance is not easy when evaluating anything Zodiac when immersed in a burgeoning mystery.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/5/2018 03:43:23 pm

I worked through ''concerned citizen'''s cipher keys.

Laborious stuff.

He had allocated 8 polyphonic symbols.

But,he didn't use all the allocations,for each polyphonic symbol,that he had sectioned off,from the rest of the symbol allocations.

That's all.

Some had questioned this.Perhaps,justifiably,in light of that which didn't use.

For why had he set out some ''choices'',that he never actually employed [?].

The answer is only known to ''concerned citizen''.

But I didn't work ''against'' him...merely using that,which offered a ''correct spelling'' completion,according to what was offered.

Although it was a boring task,I'm glad that I did work through the keys,that ''concerned citizen'' had,on offer.

''concerned citizen'' was ''Zodiac''....just an unanswered question,why he had made certain allocations,that he never actually employed.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/5/2018 04:04:35 pm

Yes,I am sure that allocations,''superfluous to requirements'',will be a question,a ''buff'',at the FBI's crypto unit,would want to ask ''concerned citizen''/Zodiac....if /when.he is arrested.

Personally,I wouldn't be,in such a hurry.

The conviction for just ''one murder'',would be ''dandy'',for me.

Tom1

11/8/2018 04:27:05 pm

I am an oulde and I struggled mightily with it myself and sent you a PM on another site. I couldn't figure out what that column on the right was. You just splained it for me in your post. I feel better already.

Drew

11/5/2018 06:36:31 pm

Nice work there Rubislaw! Dave's observation was astute and his evaluation of the concerned citizen's accuracy is a valid offering, but your deduction too is interesting. Considering how much he used the + sign in the 340 (which I will admit could possibly function as cipher text) it seems reasonable that had the 408 message gone longer that the Q symbols could have represented additional letters.

This polyphonic business must be considered a cheat in the cipher doesn't it? A code could consist of just one symbol ten times in a row and presto a crackproof cipher! The fact that this occurs in the real 408 cipher just proves that Zodiac made up his own rules and that when it comes to the 340 which goes 19 characters before a repeat that all bets are off. In my mind it would seem pointless to a message into such a scheme and expect someone on the other end to ever receive it.

After only a few days the concerned citizen did seem to be in possession of the solution which even on its own strongly suggests he was Zodiac. If he was the killer then we can also learn from this that Zodiac likely created his code key before composing his message. Considering how inane and sloppily written the actual 408 message was this seems to make sense.

With this polyphonic scheming in mind... So many of the 63 symbols in the 340 look confusingly similar (flipped letters, varieties of squares, circles, triangles, etc) that it seems a good bet that if there is a coding scheme in there that each of the confusion groups as I believe Dave calls them could represent the single letters and that he could have sketched in the distinctions perhaps randomly at the end.

I still think that the other ciphers are at least in practical terms bogus and that Zodiac didn't have much in the way of creative prose to produce or thoughts to express, but if he did, he probably did it with a key code laid out in advance. At any rate good effort Rubislaw. I admire your addiction I mean your dedication!

Nobody

11/5/2018 11:45:50 pm

I agree Drew. I am now contented to believe the 340 cipher is simply an abstract work of art containing mystical glyphs that are placed in a nicely balanced way.

At least I am going to maintain this position until someone can satisfy all of the essential elements and criteria of a genuine solution. To date nobody has come close to doing that. I must have read dozens of solutions. For the most part, none of them have "done it" for me. The ones that rely on anagrams, acronyms, backwards J's, missing text, etc. or sound like I do after consuming too much green liquid on St Paddy's day, all go straight into my reject pile.

Incidentally Drew, many people, including myself, have tried matching up those similar letters. So far, nothing, zero, ziltch, nudda.

But that is not to say it cannot be solved, and I am sure the enormous odds against finding a solution will never deter many people from chipping away at it.

If you need a good laugh, please take a look at one of my early, more crapulent attempts. Well the hilarious thing is it is probably better than the recent solution claimed by that cryptography guy. I am actually embarrassed to be posting this crap, but at least it is anonymous to a certain degree and I thought you might like a laugh.

ASIXSCENTOPERATES A sixth sense operates.
ISTILWELARMDIHAVN I still well armed, I have
EWVANTOCARTMOREGU now a van to cart more guns.
NSXPECTINGHITTHAT Expecting a hit. That hunter
HUNTERIMPARESMEOF impairs me off the
FTHEXCISIMPORITAL Excorcism portal
TOTALLYSOICANNOTP totally, so I cannot play.
LAYIVISITSELFTORU I visit self-torment
MENTATUNSTEADYSEA at an unsteady sea,
SOCONTENTISPAREDB so content I spared both
OTHFORSLAVESANDAT for slaves and at a
BEACHIPLANENDTOHE beach I plan an end to
RSANDSTEPSREALYDO her sand steps. Really do
CAREIVOTEAGENERAL care. I vote. A general
DECEIVEDUSANOCOST deceived us and cost
BADGREALISEDINBAT bad. Realized in combat
CANTRUSTHERCRAPAR can't trust their crap, a rat
TTORPERATINGIFLOS operating if lost (Viet)nam.
TNAMREPRESLIEISPA Reprisal is pain,
INAGESONECITYPAYS as one city pays.

Nobody

11/6/2018 03:32:42 am

Incidentally Drew, there is a guy on YouTube who believes everything the Zodiac wrote, both official and unofficial, was a coded message from the Zodiac himself, and that includes the Desktop Poem. Yes even that poem scratched into a desk is apparently a cryptogram that he has solved! And get this, the solution contains an anagram. Enough said!

Some people have problems with coincidences, in that they believe every single thing must have meaning. They refuse to believe that there could be an explanation that does not conform to their own theory. In essence they echo the angry words of a certain fictional detective: "There are no such things as coincidences!!" The problem is, there are.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/6/2018 12:39:59 am

Thanks for your feedback,Drew.

If I come across,on the assessment,of going through ''concerned citizen'' 's keys,as ''it's no big deal'',in one sense,it isn't a big deal.

As an overall assessment,''concerned citizen''/Zodiac just had marginally ''grander'' plans,in his execution,of laying out the cipher,than actually transpired.And,in effect,decided ''not'' to deploy quite as much of his ''cheat mechanism'',than he had originally intended.

But,for a ''complete buff'',it would be understandable that,they would like to see ''concerned citizen'' held accountable,to everything,based on ''keys description'',that he gave Sgt.Lynch.

To really do this,the best option,would be,for someone else,apart from me,to go through the laborious process,as I did....and then compare ''notes'',with me.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/6/2018 04:43:04 am

...in fact,if anyone knows Mr.Oranchak,then they might like to pass on,from me,that if his concerns over ''concerned citizen'' 's ''cipher execution''are troubling him,then,he might wish to do,as I did....then we can compare assessments.

He is a worthy ''documentor'' of Zodiac's cipher work,just as Mr.Morford documents Zodiac general aspects,well.

That,they both chose to get in bed with the Hearst Corporation,over the ''downmarket'' TV series,is mystery,known only to themselves.

Yes,I welcome some input from Mr.Oranchak.He is certainly my biggest follower,for cipher posts,at Ricardo Gomez's site,and appears to loiter,like a groupie,waiting to read my latest cipher ''expose''.

I warm to him,in this respect.

A genuine fan,indeed,of my work.

Thanks Mr.Oranchak,for your interest.

Respect to you,in return.

Nobody

11/5/2018 11:00:08 pm

My personal opinion is this was just someone who thought he (or maybe she) could help. I am really not surprised that even though Harden's input was declared "a likely solve", this person thought "Oh well, it probably can't hurt sending in my two cents anyway". I wonder if LE and the newspapers received any other letters containing possible solutions that were never published? My personal feeling is they would have, and many of them were so ridiculous they were just put in a file somewhere where they lingered. I agree the wording of the letter is a bit odd, but then again, cipher people do tend to be a bit eccentric, or so I have discovered (self included).

Drew

11/7/2018 09:32:54 am

Jarvle, a very hard working cipher guy on Morf's board, has done some investigating in the FBI files and believes that he has discovered pretty solid evidence that the Concerned Citizen fingerprint belonged to Hardin after all. I was/am too lazy to read all of the reports he linked to but I know you guys have a passion for such activities! Oranchak seems to have given his conclusions the thumbs up. At any rate if you'd like to check it out, here is the thread:
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=4088

Richard

11/7/2018 09:54:03 am

Thanks Drew, but I am puzzled. The Chronicle article states Harden's name, so why would the "concerned citizen" (if Harden) state "Please forgive the absence of my signature or name as I do not wish to have my name in the papers and it could be mentiond by a slip of the tongue." Also the Chronicle article stated that Sergeant Lynch was already in possession of Harden's worksheets, so why would he then mail them again, but wanting to remain anonymous. Very strange.

Drew

11/7/2018 10:05:50 am

I totally agree that the motivation of Harden sending it is truly baffling. Apart from the groundwork laid out in all of the keen observations discussed here over the last few days Rubislaw had convinced me that it made sense to view the submitted key as Zodiac's. I am at a loss to explain it, but there's not much wiggle room in their phrasing describing the sender revealed through a print match, 'school teacher cracking cryptogram'.

Richard

11/7/2018 10:15:11 am

And the key by the "concerned citizen" doesn't tally with Harden's key.

Drew

11/7/2018 10:21:32 am

I know! I guess maybe he hadn't sent in everything they had previously. Okay, but although I can imagine that there were errors in their worksheets and initial attempts to lock down the key, after all of he and Betty's efforts I would imagine that he would be careful to re-write the code key properly and error free before sending it in.

Richard

11/7/2018 10:27:22 am

Page 3 shows Zodiac's handwriting throughout, so isn't it possible that "Q16 - Q18 Not involved, letter from anony. (school teacher) cracking cryptogram" means Zodiac not involved with regards to letter from anonymous in respect to school teacher cracking cryptogram.
The language really isn't that clear. Is there a clear statement of Harden fingerprints match "concerned citizen" card. Thanks Drew, I'll see what everybody else says.

Richard

11/7/2018 10:30:31 am

Or Harden wasn't involved with the letter from anonymous.

Drew

11/7/2018 10:31:06 am

Good point. I can agree that the identification remains uncertain.

Richard

11/7/2018 10:36:19 am

"Not involved (Donald Harden)-letter from anonymous. ie: schoolteacher cracking cryptogram.

Jarive wrote "About 2 months later (10/17/1969) an examination is requested of several documents including Q16 to Q18. By then they knew that the fingerprints belonged to Donald Harden."
Why didn't they just ask Donald Harden if he wrote it, why did they need fingerprint analysis to prove he did.

Drew

11/7/2018 10:47:10 am

A phone call certainly would have been quicker. The fact that they did run the test perhaps indicates that they did ask Don and he said that he didn't send it.

Richard

11/7/2018 11:05:14 am

Exactly. All the FBI file documents mentioning the "concerned citizen" card being photographed and analyzed through August, September and October, sent off for fingerprint analysis, along with the statement saying the typewriter used had many defects which would identify the suspect machine if located, when all they had to do was ring or ask Donald Harden "did you send the letter". The fact they didn't, is because they knew he didn't send it, as you stated.

Shawn

11/9/2018 07:13:14 am

Armchair Detectives such as the Harden's (solving the 408) could have gave rise to the idea, the average Joe might be able to solve the Zodiac case.

Anon

4/19/2019 10:59:03 am

Because he was playing a third person to divert attention away from Lynch studying the codes and worksheets. You can see this is the same writer. https://postimg.cc/Whpq5GRp

Rubislaw 32 link

11/7/2018 12:45:27 pm

Everyone is entitled to opinions,on this matter,particularly with regard to a ''concerned citizen'' might be the hand of Don Harden.

I side with Richard,here.

There is just no ''way on earth'',of this being the case.

What is all too apparent is,that Don Harden was very bright,''Ciphers'' wasn't really his thing.He and his wife were crossword puzzle addicts,with occasional interest in other mind puzzles.

He did own one cipher reference book,but he owned a collection of reference books,to assist him to solve crossword puzzles.

More to the point,perhaps,is that The Hardens solution,made Zodiac's solution,to the ''408'',about 98.5 % correct.It was the ''concerned citizen'' 's solution,that made Zodiac's solution,close to 100% correct....with just,really,a debate over the ''THosE'' or ''THAt'' perceived ''unforced error.

The reason for The Hardens solution,falling short of ''100%'' is,that they failed to see,nor understand,the concept of Polyphonic symbols.

It ''sort of'' beggars belief,that Don Harden would present a ''98.5%'' correct solution....then,shortly afterwards,present anonymously,a ''100%'' correct solution.

And,all the ''forensic details'' reported...are mere ''hearsay''.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/7/2018 01:53:19 pm

.....just to add,if at all relevant....following The Hardens ''408'' solution publication,they rightfully sat back and basked,in their glory.

They won a ''Sleuth'' award,apart from the public plaudits,which must have been gratifying.

On reflection,it may not have happened for them,had the FBI been at the helm of the case,at that time.Technically,the FBI were at the helm...but only just....and had not got down to matters,such as the ''408''.....not least find their feet,and start having Bay Area police forces understand,who was boss...in matters related to perceived ''extortion'',anyway.

So,it was Sgt Lynch of the Vallejo Police,who supervised the coordinating of The Hardens solution,with the newspapers.

Naturally,we can perceive now,and undoubtedly was the case,that Don and Bettye took a real interest in ciphers,thereafter...and believing,like many others,that this ''cipher lark'' was achievable.

But when the ''340'' materialised.....what happened ?

Everyone,including The Hardens,ran into a brick wall.

Tom1

11/8/2018 04:40:05 pm

This may not make any sense and I might be missing something, but what if the 340 is not a cipher at all, but instead is a word puzzle of some sort? Without a key and and overlay to go with it, it is not solvable.
It is not designed to be solved, so it does not meet the true definition of a cipher.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/8/2018 05:00:58 pm

No doubts,that is a pertinent point,Tom 1.

Discounting a personal take,on the ''340'',I believe on a basis of dates,that most agree that,the ''340'' represented a personal celebration,for the Zodiac,following successful attacks,at Berryessa and Presidio.

So,whether Zodiac had ''upped his game'' with his cipher skills,or landed us with a ''dummy'',for further self entertainment,has yet to be proven.

Nobody

11/8/2018 06:16:35 pm

Hi Tom, Whether it be extremely difficult to solve or just a stage prop, it hardly matters. Either way, the Zodiac achieved his aims.

One way to be "forever un-crackable" is to throw out the rules of etiquette for cryptography, as if there ever really were rules. Ciphers often originated as a result of warfare and spying, so the rules were only for the "victors" to know. The enemy just had to keep guessing.

Another way to be un-crackable is to draw row after row of nice-looking symbols that were never intended to be decrypted at all. If we accept that the Zodiac was a sociopath or psychopath with a somewhat bent and insane way of viewing the world, my guess is "the rule book" meant very little to him. So when cryptographers dismiss possible solutions as being invalid because the method falls outside the bounds of known cryptographic methodology, I think they are missing the point entirely. Since when did a serial killer play by the rules? A sociopath, for example, may "get off" on hiding a detail in plain sight. This may be nothing more than a single letter or symbol. I have long been puzzled by what that strange looking "dotted I/J" symbol is towards the end of the bottom line, immediately following ZODAIK. Something as simple and banal as this could be the solution. Only the Zodiac knows. And the thing is, such a cipher would indeed be perfectly valid. The "self-proclaimed victor" knows the solution. The "enemy" are left guessing. The self-proclaimed victor wins.

Drew

11/7/2018 02:41:31 pm

Just so you guys know I have stolen everyone's ideas and entered the conversation on Morf's site and have relayed a lot of the thoughts expressed here over the last few days.
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=75&t=4088

Rubislaw 32 link

11/7/2018 04:40:17 pm

Thanks for the mention,Drew.

It's good to spread debate across the ''community'',since this should be a celebration of purpose and intention,also.

But,it would be even better for us to be sure of an ''end game'' [?].

''It ain't over,till it's over.''.

Tom1

11/8/2018 06:10:30 pm

I have read a lot of Randall Clemmons work on this. I think that I might be getting some of it , but am not sure. what if there are a fixed number of operative symbols in the 340? These symbols are randomly placed in the "cipher". They can only be revealed with an overlay. A key would be required to decode the symbols. Then the message would have to be created out of the resultant jumble. I've gone around the bend. I will see ya on the way back around.

Nobody

11/8/2018 03:27:34 pm

I am sure most people would think my ideas expressed on Part 1 of this topic are totally loony. I do not care. But it will be interesting to see what others think.

Tom1

11/9/2018 07:13:54 am

Not sure about part 1 but your comments in part 2 are impressive.

Nobody

11/8/2018 03:24:47 pm

As many will notice from my chain of comments on Pt 1 of this topic, I am finding myself having a serious re-think on this.

Judith

11/8/2018 07:05:49 pm

What are you hoping for with these ciphers? If solved the answer could be another riddle, or say something like "Drink your Ovaltine" I wouldn't waste too much time on it.
Having said that, there is a real Paradise and it is here in California. And Peter used to go there frequently to party with friends. Today it burned to the ground

Rubislaw 32 link

11/9/2018 01:12:17 am

Yes,what happened at ''Thousand Acres'' was terrible,Judith.

The world turns,and we are still concerned about the 50 year old case of an urban terrorist.

Zodiac's ciphers were an extension of his acts of extortion.We are just looking for clues....whether it be solutions,or just how he set about constructing them.

In the scheme of things,one murder is infinitely more important,than all of Zodiac's ciphers,put together.

But in terms of potential clues,to catching Zodiac,anything gleaned from any aspect of his crimes....has precisely equal value.

Now,why did Mr.Trump accept $27 million from the National Rifle Association,as funds for his Presidential bid ?

Because his campaign needed the funds.

11/9/2018 05:00:33 pm

The Boston Massacre, known as the Incident on King Street by the British, was a confrontation on March 5, 1770, in which British Army soldiers shot and killed five people while under harassment by locals. The incident was heavily publicized by leading Patriots, such as Paul Revere and Samuel Adams.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The USA began with this massacre - it was a political football to get colonialist divided so the hate whipped-up would drive the war effort for the separation of the colonies. It was all whipped-up in the newspapers by this event. Sound familiar? A secret group later met at the Green Dragon to plan "The Boston Tea Party" a political and mercantile protest by the "Sons of Liberty" in Boston, Massachusetts, on December 16, 1773

Richard

11/9/2018 01:12:21 am

The cipher is difficult to solve Judith, the California solution is easy.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/10/2018 08:08:10 am

Yes,a very fascinating part of history,BB.

And maybe all too easy,to pinpoint the specifics of what lead to the War of Independence.Though we can be sure that it had more to do,with unfair taxation,than anything else.

The USA was very divided,on this issue,and it is my understanding that,it took a fourth vote,by the political elite,before electing to declare war against the colonialist British.

Tom1

11/9/2018 07:10:12 am

Not sure about the peter connection but the links to Paradise Ca. are clear. Did he have any involvement with E Clampus Vitas. There are a couple of hints in some of the Z material that lead to to the Clampers.
Did you and Peter have any involvement with the Pairadice Motel? The down side to this is that your credibility just suffered a major hit as a result of your political bias revealed in your post about Trump.Oh Well.

Lori F

11/9/2018 10:37:14 am

Does Richard impose any rules about what can be discussed on this site, i.e. politics?

Judith

11/9/2018 06:32:15 am

Don't get me going on Donald Trump. He is a sociopath. He reminds me of somebody. There is actually a town called Paradise in Northern California which burned to the ground yesterday.
With regards to the guns I have been terrorized at gunpoint more than once in my life. I have no use for guns.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/9/2018 08:48:25 am

....sorry,I was a bit behind,on the fires,and thought you were referring to the gun control issue.

Strange how the TV reporters,on the ground,seem to be enjoying themselves [?].

Here's another ''reveal'',from Scorpion's S5

''.....UNIVERSITY UGLIES.EXPRESSO NYP....''

Implies :

''.....university ugLIES,exPRESSo nyp....''

Scorpion,ahead of his time,on ''Fake News'' [?].

Nobody

11/9/2018 01:33:18 pm

I am so sorry to hear the tragic news about Paradise. A lovely town now in ashes. And as for Trump, his watch has resulted in the 307th mass shooting in 2018, and the year has not ended. A new breed of psychopath with complicit support from on high. The old argument of "guns don't kill people, people do", is wearing thin. It should be obvious that people AND guns can and do kill people, and it can be impossible to know if the person buying a certain kind of gun is a sociopath who may explode at any time in the future. Many people these days follow strange and extreme politics or have extreme quasi-religious ideals. All it may take is for something to go wrong in the person's life, financial or relationship breakdown for example, to cause them to lash out. If they own a gun capable of killing dozens of people, they may use it. And this is exactly what is happening in the America of today. We live in uncertain times, which have been made more uncertain by those in charge.

Back to the fires, do you think the widespread planting of highly flammable Australian native shrubs and trees could be partly to blame? Whenever I look around Google Earth using Street View I sometimes see quintessential Australian-ized landscapes, supporting large groves of Eucalyptus trees - there would probably be enough there now to support a healthy koala population if they were introduced! Also Australian wattles, bottle-brushes, she-oaks etc. I guess they were planted so widely because they grow considerably faster than a lot of the trees native to California. But they appear to have gone completely feral and dominate your hills and woodlands in many places. They are rich with oils and have dry flaking bark and constantly dump their leaves on the ground. All parts are extremely flammable. A bad ingredient for California, which is prone to those strong, dry winds blowing in off the deserts and mountains.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/9/2018 09:34:06 am

''Wishful thinking'' quote of the week,from someone who suspects Zodiac,to be a man out walking his dog,when a taxi driver was murdered :

'' There is no Zodiac DNA,there never was any Zodiac DNA,and there never may be any Zodiac DNA.''.

Long may this claimed state of affairs continue [?]....so that the man out walking his dog,will remain,a Zodiac suspect.

More books need selling.

Nobody

11/9/2018 01:12:53 pm

Yes Rubislaw, I now refer to it as the "Scooby Doo theory". It is yet another "convenient" theory that needs - and will continue to need - more "convenient" theories to keep it propped up. A true house of cards without foundation.

Lori F

11/9/2018 10:07:14 am

Just curious and trying to catch up on all things Zodiac, other than the Harden's and the "concerned citizen", do we know if anyone else actually submitted the same or similar key to police or media (at that time)?

Rubislaw 32 link

11/9/2018 10:29:16 am

I don't believe that we do,Lori F.

No doubt Lynch would have received some,that just weren't ''in the ball park''.

There appears to have been many suggestions,for the 18 character anagram,presumed to be left at the end of the ''408'',as a second puzzle.

From the checking on the ''concerned citizen'' 's solution,I claim to have concluded that,the reality was,that 8 different sets of 18 character anagrams,were actually left.

Which indicates that ''concerned citizen''/Zodiac never actually left a defined single solution,to that second puzzle.

But it would be helpful,if someone else,went through the same work as I,in order to make my claim more convincing to others.

One thing that we can always be sure about is,that the FBI are not going to help the public out,on aspects of a case,that remains active.

11/9/2018 02:15:07 pm

True - The FBI is just like the NRA nothing but political. The NRA has not been a rifle club for a long time. And the FBI could not care any less about unsolved cases. And - sorry Tom - political credibility is an oxymoron. These days nothing about politics is credible.

Rubislaw 32 link

11/9/2018 02:38:13 pm

I just read a staggering statistic that,there have been 307 mass shootings,in the last 311 days,in the U.S.A.

How on earth can this madness continue ?

To-day marks the 100th anniversary,of the end of ''The Great War'',more commonly known as ''World War One''.Thought to be the war,that would end all wars.

In two months time,it will be the 50th anniversary,of the Lake Herman Road murders of David Farraday and Betty Lou Jensen.

This puts the elapse of time,in perspective.The distance in time,to The Great War,is just twice as long,as the distance to the Zodiac's first official attack.

Hopefully,the distance in time,to a Zodiac judicial conviction,will be not long coming.

Nobody

11/9/2018 03:55:07 pm

346 mass shootings occurred in 2017.

The 30 deadliest shootings in the United States dating back to 1949, 19 have occurred in the last 10 years.

From 1966 to 2012, nearly a third of the world's mass shootings took place in the United States. In 2016, if we look at 292 of the incidents in which four or more people were killed, 90 of them occurred in America. Put another way: While the United States has about 5% of the world's population, it had 31% of all public mass shootings. And this appalling statistic only continues to grow year by year.

Nobody

11/9/2018 04:15:02 pm

At least Australia took the pre-emptive step some years ago to significantly tighten gun control after the Port Arthur massacre. There was a perceived danger that Australia could be heading the same way as America. There were plenty of people in Australia who grew up around guns, myself included, and we could freely walk around the bush carrying one. I recall a relative of mine got through a fence one day with a loaded rifle and got caught in the barbs and shot himself in the hand. Since guns have been largely outlawed except by those who can prove they are experienced and capable or require a weapon for their livelihood, people like myself have not missed them.

Of course now the would-be killers just use knives or cars or trucks as their instruments of death, but the thing is a knife or car or truck is perhaps less likely to injure or kill as many people at one time as a lone nutter with an automatic rifle or machine gun.

Cars do of course kill many people in accidents every year, and should be regarded as a potentially dangerous tool in the wrong hands. The same can be said for most household machinery that we use in the garden, eg. a chainsaw, a hoe, or a digging fork. Hell even a kitchen fork could be construed as a lethal weapon in the wrong hands. But when it comes to the question of intent to kill, a loaded gun has the capacity to kill dozens of people in a very short space of time in the wrong hands. In the hands of a nutter a loaded gun is potentially far more dangerous than any car or truck ever will be. America needs to have a close look at how and why these raving lunatics are getting their hands on weapons so easily.

The irony is not lost on the rest of the world. Bush invaded Iraq on the premise of weapons of mass destruction. They found none. All they found were lots of poor people and oil wells. The REAL weapons of mass destruction have always been in their own country, but they have been too blind to see them.

Tom1

11/10/2018 05:58:32 am

Don't really need the lecture. "Political credibility" are your words and have nothing to do with my statement, the point of which is abundantly clear.

Lori F

11/9/2018 02:34:18 pm

It is a shame about the FBI. After all these years one would think that if everything was released, someone out here may be able solve the crimes. Maybe we in the US should write our Congressmen. ;)

11/9/2018 04:18:26 pm

Good idea Lori

Rubislaw 32 link

11/9/2018 03:06:22 pm

The case has always been about '' Lies,damn lies,and forensics.''

It is mostly about the third reference,that keeps the case,in the hands of the judiciary,with the police forces doing their bidding.

But what are the judiciary,up to ?

What I believe to know is,that the responsibility of the case,just through ''circumstances'',lies in the hands of one man,whom I refer to,as ''The Puppet Master''.

The Puppet Master spent seven years,bringing to justice,his last serial killer.The 4th serial killer,in his career,as a public prosecutor.
The Puppet Master has now spent four years on cases,thought to be related,to the case of The Zodiac Killer.

We must remain hopeful.

That's the best I can offer,without meaning to sound too cryptic or speculative.

Nobody

11/9/2018 03:58:47 pm

I am very naive. I presumed that November would be the likely month for the release of the long awaited Zodiac DNA evidence and any subsequent findings. Will I be so optimistic on this day next month and we have still heard nothing? There is no deadline or pressure with a cold case. It just gets done when it gets done, and that may be never.

11/9/2018 04:03:00 pm

Rubislaw 32 - You're on fire my friend. Keep on trucking!

Rubislaw 32 link

11/10/2018 03:46:37 am

Well thanks BB.

And to Nobody and Lori,whose inquiries are certainly relevant.

From what I understand,in the last 4 years,that the Zodiac case,has been ''ceded'' back to the US DOJ,out of necessity.

The two main reasons are this :

Firstly,it is accepted that,the Bay Area attacks,as crimes of murder and attempted murder,are not,or no longer winnable cases,on their own merits,in a court of law.Therefore,will have to ''heaped on'' to a crime,committed by the man who was known as the Zodiac,that ''is'' or becomes a winnable proposition.

So,''they'',the judiciary,are trying to nail Zodiac for,perhaps,just one murder,elsewhere.And,if ''they'' can construct a prosecution case,so robust and compelling....then hopefully,Zodiac's defence counsel will persuade Zodiac,to throw in the towel,and plea bargain on admission of ''all'' his crimes.

It is looking more and more likely,that the CA DOJ,are really only ''facilitators'' now,and no longer in a position to enact prosecution,in the Zodiac case.

I would suggest,anyway,that not only do the authorities have Zodiac's DNA....that they also have a match....and have known who Zodiac is,conclusively,for two years...having suspected it,a further two years back.

Police,such as the VPD,are just making up stories,at the behest of DOJ's,in order to buy time.

Any cold case units one hears about,to do with the case,working on anything meaningful,are actually doing this,within the confines of DOJ buildings.

And,only Quantico and Gartcosh are playing a role in delivering forensic requirements,to DOJ's.

Who are the DOJ's ?

Well,obvioulsy California,for one.But I would suggest that MA and TX,have also contributed.

Also,one other.

Lori F

11/9/2018 06:20:19 pm

I think we need a mole inside the company that is investigating the DNA. Does anyone know for absolute certainty:

1. Who submitted the DNA to the lab and under what case profile?
2. Which lab at which location has the submission?

Tom1

11/10/2018 06:04:41 am

It is patently obvious that this site is a haven for those of a particular political persuasion. So be it. There exist many forums for the posting of politically based statements. They have no role in the discussion of Mr Z.,and his activities, unless his motives were somehow tied to a political point of view.

Judith

11/10/2018 08:39:10 am

"Denial... is a powerful thing"

Peter Plante

Nobody

11/10/2018 04:49:47 pm

Nobody is in denial Judith We are all just asking for one thing: proof beyond all doubt.
Hurry up DNA results!!

Nobody

11/10/2018 09:26:10 pm

How come every time I Google "Zodiac DNA" and do a search on the last few days or week, a page about Joseph Newton Chandler III always comes up high on the list?

He may end up being the perfect patsy to pin it all on!

Nick No Nora

2/29/2020 10:34:14 am

Isn't the "slip of the tongue" part a pun, and maybe a double entendre? Is beneficial a pun on Benicia?

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