THE ALBANY LETTER

8/7/2013

CLEANED UP VERSION OF THE ALBANY LETTER BELOW.
Mailed to the Albany Times Union newspaper and postmarked August 1st 1973, this correspondence was secured by Zodiac researcher Tom Voigt of the hugely successful website Zodiackiller.com. The letter suggested an impending threat of murder on the precise date of August 10th at 5.00 pm during a shift change at the Albany Medical Center. An FBI cryptanalysis unit deciphered the material at

the foot of the letter to reveal the following: 'ALBANY MEDICAL CENTER. THIS ONLY THE BEGINNING.' The targeting of a nurse at the end of her shift would seem eerily similar to the disappearance of Donna Lass from the Sahara Tahoe Hotel on September 6th 1970.
This is a debatable Zodiac letter, in which the author failed to follow through on his threat of murder.
Rumblings of a Richard Gaikowski connection surfaced, due to his familiarity with Albany, having worked for the Knickerbocker News from 1966 to the latter part of 1968, before traveling to Europe and then returning to America, relocating in Haight-Ashbury in San Francisco.
There were however notable crimes in the months and years surrounding the August 10th 1973 timeline, relative to the Albany Medical Center.
The first was the murder of prostitute Gloria South (18), shot once behind her left ear with a .25 caliber pistol. Her body was found close to Morris and Lark Street, behind the Veterans Hospital. However, this murder was committed approximately two years prior to the Albany letter, on June 29th 1971, despite the location being very close to the Albany Medical Center. Investigators had a prime suspect in this case, but without any solid evidence tying him to the crime, they were unable to make good on their suspicions.
The second was a lot closer to the timeline, occurring four and a half months after the said date of August 10th 1973, on December 27th 1973, when Barbara Smith (24) of Hamilton Street, was murdered close to the St Philips Day Care Center on Road Street. The perpetrator had shot the young woman in the head, although it had failed to penetrate her skull. He had then used a rock to inflict the severe injuries noted at autopsy. This location was also close to the other murder, along with the Albany Medical Center.
On November 2nd 1974 Kathleen Kolodziej vanished after leaving the Vault Bar in Cobleskill, having turned down the chance to return to her dormitory with a roommate- last seen heading along Main Street. The village of Coblekill lies approximately 40 miles west of Albany. Although not a confirmed sighting, she was last seen getting into a yellow Volkswagen Beetle just before 2.00 am. Twenty six days later on November 28th 1974 she was discovered on MacDonald Road, Richmondville, lying on a stone wall. She was partially clothed, having been brutally stabbed in the back and shoulders numerous times. Kathleen Kolodziej's autopsy was carried out at the Albany Medical Center.
These murders occurred from June 1971 to November 1974. The Zodiac's hiatus in confirmed correspondence occurred between the March 13th 1971 'Los Angeles' letter or questionable March 22nd 1971 'Pines' card, and January 29th 1974, with his last confirmed mailing to the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper, in the form of an 'Exorcist' letter.
Is it possible the Zodiac switched from one location to another during this timeline, or is it more likely that the Zodiac Killer is simply being credited for crimes far and wide, with little other than letters as evidence.
Many researchers question the nature of certain crimes having been committed by the Zodiac Killer, despite the fact he did once claim in the November 9th 1969 'Bus Bomb' letter that he would "change the way the collecting of slaves. I shall no longer announce to anyone. When I committ my murders, they shall look like routine robberies, killings of anger, + a few fake accidents, etc."
The murders of Doreen Gaul (19) and James Sharp (15) provided another link, in that the Gaul residence was located on Myrtle Avenue, Albany, within touching distance of the Albany Medical Center.
Doreen Gaul and James Sharp had been brutally murdered and disfigured- their bodies found on November 21st 1969 in a Los Angeles alleyway, between Arapahoe Street and Magnolia Avenue- although it was thought they had been killed at a secondary location. They had been stabbed over 50 times and their eyes were slashed.
Doreen Gaul had been resident at the Scientology Thetan Manor hippie commune, having graduated one year earlier from high school in Albany.
A note found in her room was claimed to have been authored by the Zodiac Killer.

The letter found in in Doreen Gaul's belongings read
"SO YOU THINK YOU CAN FOOL THE OLD KILLER HA HA
I KNOW ALL YOUR MOVEMENTS AND THE TIME THEY ARE MADE
TIME IS SHORT, ENJOY LIFE WHILE YOU CAN
YOU ARE TO BEAUTIFUL TO LIVE AND I MUST KILL YOU.
THE ZODIAC KILLER."

Was the Zodiac a resident of Albany at some point, or had close ties with Albany, having known, or known of Doreen Gaul. The Zodiac link to Albany can be argued through both letters, but whether the Zodiac Killer ever set his Wing Walkers down in the streets of Albany, we may never know.

75 Comments

Robin Smith

1/3/2015 02:57:02 pm

Bruce Davis dated Doreen and reportedly was very upset over the fact that she had been dating a black guy...that aside Scientology plays a large part in the saga of Bruce Davis as does the Process. Bruce spent time in England also.

One of these commenters asked the question, "Why did Bruce become a minister in prison instead of a lawyer?" He has earned several degrees while imprisoned. The answer is simple...BD was heavily involved with the Scientology 'bunch' and this is what caused him to turn himself in....N0t Charles Manson.

Investigation into some of Bruce's activities, especially the suspected murders in Nevada (bombing of Richard L Chartrand Aug 27,1968 and the disappearance Donna Lass Sep 6,1970) were going to lead straight to COS (Church of Satan) Anton LaVey and Scientology's L Ron Hubbard.

As a side N0te COS Blanche BARTON (The Magic Circle/Order of The Trapezoid)

Alex Lewis points out that Lawrence Kane used the alias BARTON one time and one time only...5-24-1954 complaint withdrawn 7-8-1954 in POUGHKEEPSIE, Ny.

Church of Satan P.O. Box 666 POUGHKEEPSIE, Ny 12602-0666

Alex Lewis

8/6/2016 05:56:22 pm

"Alex Lewis points out that Lawrence Kane used the alias BARTON one time and one time only...5-24-1954. . ."

To Clarify, I stated He only ever used this alias once when He was arrested and asked who He was. His arrest history shows it only being used on only one occasion by Lawrence, that isn't to say He never used it elsewhere in another time & place for other reason's, can't know that to be true or false and only Larry Himself could answer that.

What I can say as fact is: From 1946 rite up to 1954, Lawrence used one of two Aliases every time, the two being Lawrence Kaye and/or Lawrence Klein when encountering Law Enforcement and being arrested. Then, in 54, He uses the Alias 'Lawrence Barton' when arrested in New York, before returning to 'Kaye' for His next arrest.

Alex Lewis

9/8/2016 08:49:24 am

In fact, from 1946 to 1954, He uses His correct Name when Arrested. Klein, His birth Name, then Kaye, His Legal Name after He changed It. It's only after 54 that He begins to used assumed names/aliases.

Robin Smith

2/21/2015 04:01:02 am

Doreen Gaul was residing at SCIENTOLOGY Thetan Manor hippie commune when she was murdered, Nov 21, 1969....

The L Ron Hubbard connection can N0t be overlookes as the F.B.I. had extensive files on him including a 1951 interview with an agent who considered him a "mental case"...1958 IRS withdrew the Washington DC Church of Scientology's tax exemption

Z letter found in her belongings....

has anyone researched L Ron Hubbard's connections to Bruce Davis?

Robin Smith

3/14/2015 06:01:57 am

The Bruce Davis Scientology connection PRECEDES his Manson connection by several years.

Bruce Davis was also involved with The Process Church in England.

L Ron Hubbard said, "If you want to make money, start a religion."

Robin Smith

3/14/2015 06:04:10 am

Bruce Davis did N0t tell Manson and any of his people to STOP any communication with him until 1974.

Alex Lewis

8/7/2016 12:56:48 am

" the F.B.I. had extensive files on him including a 1951 interview with an agent who considered him a "mental case".

Well that is at odd's with Chief of Homicide Inspectors M. Lee's opinion/declaration of zodiac being: 'Legally Sane" also going on to suggest He knows what He is doing is wrong because the man Himself knows right from wrong. Lee declared Zodiac competent in ability to understand the nature of the charges against Him thus, He's also fit to stand trial.

How Lee knew all this is another question entirely. Doesn't know who Z is, yet diagnosing Him and His Mental Health as A1.

Shock jock

8/17/2015 05:39:50 pm

Only upon the death of Manson will we have some of the questions answered. Davis or Watson might want to "talk" once ol' Charlie is dead and buried.

Robin Smth

8/18/2015 12:47:02 am

Shock...according to one of Manson's "roomies" in Leavenworth , Manson was a stinky little car thief.

It's not Manson Bruce Davis is afraid of, Church of Satan and Scientology. L Ron Hubbard and Anton LaVey. LRH was raised in Helena, Montana. LRH and Anton were friends and Susan Atkins knew Anton up close and personally BEFORE he was famous.

Diane Hegarty and Blanch Barton are still going strong so don't hold your breath! Diane reportedly has the name of Z in a lock box.

Mike Morford link

8/28/2015 02:55:10 am

For this letter to turn up all the way across the country from CA, in the very same town that Zodiac Victim Darlene Ferrin had lived in for a short time, as well as Zodiac Suspect,Richard Gaikowski, seems to be more than a coincidence. This is worth investigating further

Robin Smith

8/28/2015 04:33:58 am

MM...I agree 100% but haven't the wherewithal:(

If you do find anything please post back:)

BTW FYI Bruce Davis was approved for parole 8/27/201. Now Governor of California has X number of days to decide whether or not to turn him loose

Robin Smith

8/28/2015 04:37:26 am

That parole hearing was yesterday 8/27/2015

sandy betts link

4/8/2016 12:36:37 am

I do believe that Richard Giakowski worked at the Albany News paper, because there is proof of that. But I have yet to see any real proof that Darlene and Jim were there at that same time Gaikowski was. When I questioned that , I got a response of a type written note that stated they were, but it wasn't dated or signed by the person who was making that claim. I like to know who the people are that make these claims, other wise it is hear say. Just because it is written on a piece of paper, doesn't make it a fact in my book. When you take into account how long Darlene and Jim were together and how many places they went to in such a short time , the odds of them being in Albany at the same time as RG, are very slim. They were in Rosemead Ca. in Jan 1966 , SF, Lake Tahoe and the Virgin Islands, then Vallejo living with her parents. Soon after, Darlene was in Reno NV for at least 6 weeks getting her quickie divorce in 1967.

Phillips 66

6/17/2016 11:28:03 am

I don't know why no one mentions that Jim Phillips aka ... Dee's x-husband worked at the Times Union in Albany in 1966 for a couple months (same paper this letter was sent to) while he was traveling across the country with Dee. That is what Jim said when he was on the Zig boards. Jim of course was a suspect in the Z murders in 1970. He was also a US Army cryptographer.

Richard

6/17/2016 11:58:58 am

Darlene Ferrin, murdered on July 4th 1969, had moved to Albany just prior to Richard Gaikowski, and as it turned out, her husband worked in the very same building as Gaikowski, for the Albany Times Union newspaper. The Albany Times Union newspaper received a letter some years later, postmarked August 1st 1973, pertaining to be from the Zodiac Killer and threatening to murder his next victim on August 10th at 5.00 pm.

http://www.zodiacciphers.com/richard-gaikowski.html

sandy betts link

6/19/2016 07:57:17 am

What we have been told and what are the true facts is not always so. I believed Jim Crabtree when he said he worked for the Albany newspaper , he said he wrote about the fires there. I looked for many hours for those articles he said he wrote about. There were none to be found. I do not believe anything he has to say. He had a problem with holding a job for more than a few days, I doubt that he was working at the same place the same time as RG. He may not have worked there at all for all we know.

Phillips 66

6/22/2016 09:44:47 am

Jim actually said he took the pictures of the fire, I don't believe he said wrote the article. He did say it got picked up by AP. I think most of the newspapers he mentioned working for in 1966 he worked at as an assistant not a reporter. But I also have not been able to find the story about the fire at the textile plant in Albany in 1966. That being said the fact that there were 2 people in Darlene and Jim's address book that were in Albany NY, one of which who worked at the Time Union strongly suggests that he was telling the truth about being in Albany. If he was lying about being there one would have to assume that he is lying for a reason. I don't know what that would be. Do you think he was somewhere else and didn't want anyone to know?

I think pertinent question is why did Jim and Darlene decide to go to Albany for California in the middle of winter on a motorcycle? He said he worked as a bartender first, then got the job at the news paper. So they did not go there because of the job and they certainly didn't go there for the warm weather.

Alex Lewis

8/6/2016 06:07:37 pm

Ok, what are we saying or implying if we say Jim and Gaik worked at the same paper, or at least within the same building, as each other for a short time?
Is the implication 'Obviously, Jim approached His colleague He had met twice with a proposal of "How would you like to make an easy 10 G's Richie? All you have to do is eliminate a problem called my X Wife for me......are you in?"

I mean serious, what's the suggestion being made here?

sandy betts link

6/26/2016 11:13:52 pm

I was told that there was another person who went with them to NY and to the Virgin Islands, with named Honcho. How do we know for sure that they went on a motorcycle? Thanks for letting me know that Jim took pictures and didn't write for the paper. When you find a fire at the textile plant in 1966 , please let us know. If Jim lied about that ,what else did he lie about ? There were fires in other towns but like you said , didn't see one in Albany at the place Jim mentioned.

Phillips 66

8/10/2016 11:38:09 am

We don't know for sure that they went on motorcycle. That's just what Jim said. I wonder if it is even possible to drive a motorcycle from San Fransisco to Albany in January?

Here are some quotes

"Then back to San Francisco... bought the bike and took off for Albany... Now my zany recollections may be dim here... If you want a solid time line go here.... I got a job first, in a club there as a bartender... after a very few days I applied for and got a job as a copy editor at the Albany Times Union... midnight to eight... My executive responsibilities included fetching coffee for all of the deaf linotype operators at about three in the morning... for that task I had to drive to a local coffee shop and pick the order up...."

"I was oblivious at the time, but I was really suffering from a form of ptsd... I was freaked... I was carrying some heavy information that just caused my whole... my whole... world to come completely apart... Everything I had believed in my whole life had just completely collapsed... I didn't believe in the country... I had been lied to forever... My concept of marriage and family was just completely shot... shredded...

I simply could not stay in one place... I just had the compulsion to move... move... move... I wasn't running away from anything in particular... more like running towards something and not even knowing what that might be... I just had to move...

I don't think we ever paid rent more than once in anywhere we lived... Not much stuff... just pick it up, stuff it in the car or motorcycle and move... The only thing I carried, for sure, was a Royal portable typewriter... but I couldn't even get my mind focused enough to write a single word... "

Rebecca Tokier link

9/5/2016 08:46:19 am

Would like to speak with you in regards to the case.Please contracted me.Thank You.

Alex Lewis

9/8/2016 08:55:21 am

Rebecca, who would you like to speak to regarding this case specifically? Could you give Me a contact email? If you don't wish to gie it out publicly, feel free to email me at WelshChappie@aol.com and put as your subject RE: REBECCA so I don't overlook your email as I am lazy and rarely delete email so have a sizable inbox.

Samantha Flojed

8/2/2016 07:10:22 pm

I am related to one of the victims that is still not solved and never will be. I am so sad about that and hate that my loved one is talked about so much with guesses about her.

Samantha Flojed

8/2/2016 07:18:47 pm

Well I didn't check my comment: pretty bad grammar! What I am trying to say is my family member was murdered by possibly the Manson family. Evidence for her murder was thrown out and therefor the scumbag(s) who killed her will never pay here on earth. She is in the book as a Manson victim and she might be, but unfortunately we will never know the whole story. ): There is a lot of speculation about her on the internet. Most of it is guessing. It's very difficult to see.

Richard

8/2/2016 09:39:55 pm

Thanks Samantha for your comments. In cases such as these there will always be speculation regarding the crimes, but what is important is that these cases are kept in the public eye and never forgotten. This crime is likely never to be solved, but there is always hope, and it is important to keep crimes such as these in the forefront of peoples minds. Let us pray, however slim, one day you get the answers you deserve. Richard.

Alex Lewis

8/7/2016 12:43:34 am

"Most of it is guessing. It's very difficult to see."

It is, that is very true.

Does't help mind when people come here and offer what is essentially useless information in terms of fact checking ability.

You drop hints and clues such as "I am related to one of the victims. . ." and I was hypothetically asking myself "darlene? Cecelia maybe? What about Betty-Lou. . ." when you posted 2n time to reveal the victim you speak of isn't Zodiac's but poster boy for pure evil, Ol Charlie Manson's.

I say with utter sincerity that if you have lost anyone close to you by way of Violence, then allow Me to say how sorry I am for you loss, and my sympathy and thoughts will be with you. But please Sam, if you say your related to 'A Victim' then you will know that this statement will cause us reading to wonder who you refer to. If your not willing to say which one, then need not mention your relation to A Victim at all.

Rebecca Tokier link

9/5/2016 08:47:47 am

Would like to join your website.

Richard

9/5/2016 09:07:05 am

The website doesn't have any members, there is no joining policy like a forum, anybody is free to comment Rebecca.

sandy betts link

9/5/2016 04:33:46 pm

Samantha, I agree with Alex. If you are looking for some help in your relatives murder, you should give us her name. She might not be a Manson victim, it may have been Zodiac for all we know?
Zodiac did say that the police found only the easy ones down south. That tells me there are more we don't know about. Learning about her case could open up doors .

12/29/2017 05:39:04 pm

does dennis rader look like zodiac?

Ray Jenkins

12/29/2017 06:05:32 pm

BB, your question seems strangely out of place. I can only answer it by asking another question: Who knows what the Zodiac really looked like?

Alex Lewis

1/17/2018 11:57:05 pm

Dennis 'BTK... odiac' Rader?

What, you me kinda Similar to He thatwas Ted Bundy aka Green River Killer who was not dissimilar to Sams Son: John Wayne Pogo who's defence was "Set-up! Police stealthy leading to them covertly entering my property & planting 30 corpses in the crawl space of conspiracy in. . . .. Operation Take Down a Clown° Jr who said to his attorneys who asked him to sign paperwork for his wishes and worldly good to go to designated people on the day of, an hour befor His scheduled Execution, quote; "I am busy today. . . . come back & i will sign them tomorrw" Said Pogo, before His meeting with 'The Unholy Trinity' Drug concoction:

The Barbiturate,

The Paralytic

and The Holy SHITof Potassium Heart Bursting to me that hurt-a-thon!

Rest ona Gurney In peace, Miss Eileen Walrus aka: The Self defence' Serial Killer who got Pogo's trinity of death, too!

I will plunge my sceptical self in dismay

As an echo arouse from Ol Sparky they say. . .

Where's my pillow
My pillow, My pillow!

Me: Face without Name, no place I came:

Yours Truly Sorry: I am back...

back with . . . you!! I think, anyway!

Yep...
I am So plz do Tell Herb & Lawrence Cain that I have always been here because I have Wing-Walkers so there!!!
;Hey Blue Boohoo . . . I was in the park and a Cipher, too that was printed on sum 'frunt' pages!

The code cup old with the Mapflap, will tell RubingmySelf-is-Law Troll fan... Look at That! That abov?? Rant of nonsense! Thought you 'Zed' which you said I would not be allowed to post and yet, turns out . . . I actually still can it appears.

No Fair, is it?

Ray Jenkins

1/18/2018 03:20:39 pm

Well this thread really went strange and crazy all of a sudden. I'm not sure if this was Alex Lewis's attempt at parody or if someone was impersonating Alex Lewis? Or maybe someone was channeling the ghost of Charles Manson while drunk or high on something? Whatever the case, it failed.

Rebecca Tokier link

9/5/2016 07:45:32 pm

I believe Zodiac Murder much more than just 5 that is claimed. I believe, as much as people disagree with GraySmith. He has a list at the back of his yellow book with a number of Z related murders.
Also, sandy Betts, I would like to send you a pic of someone to see if u recognize him
In the 68-70s

Ian IMHO

5/21/2017 08:06:03 pm

In my honest opinion, this letter was penned by none other than Robert Durst.

Tahoe27

11/23/2017 11:48:28 pm

There sure are some similarities to Durst there! That capital N...Wow! I in NO way think this was written by Zodiac. I'd argue a professional handwriting analyst all day long. I'd like to share this...thx Ian.

Ian IMHO

11/24/2017 02:29:10 pm

By all means, feel free to share far and wide!

Ray Jenkins

11/24/2017 03:04:56 pm

Has anyone come up with any meaningful solutions for that piece of code (apart from the strange and forced Oranchak "solution" I mean)?

12/31/2017 10:37:54 am

My ask is more a comment. A person named Mcgath wrote a book about all the circumstantial things which point to the btk as either the Z or the zodiac or both or all of the above being the same person. My point is if you were to go on mere circumstantial stuff the the man to fit more than any other is dennis rader. info@kimberlymcgath
he was in the airforce
he was in radio communications
he was stationed in Japan
he spoke of killing couples on calif beaches
he wrote taunting letters
he had identical handwriting
he was born at the right time
he changed his M.O.
he started his kansas kills at the same time the calif kills end
he wore glasses unlike many of the top suspects
he wore an police officer looking outfit
he actually killed people unlike the other suspects
he had the right wingwalker shoe size
he ect. ect. ect..
we know that none of this is evidence but they are clues which can lead you to the discovery of proof/evidence.

Richard

12/31/2017 01:22:53 pm

Dennis Rader was stationed in Okinawa for six months. In July 1968 he moved to Tachikawa Air Base in mainland Japan located near Tokyo. He appears to have been based there until the end of his service in 1970. By his own description, he also spent time in Korea, Greece and Turkey while serving in the Air Force. Unless he traveled back countless times to murder and post letters, he simply cannot be Zodiac. I pointed this out on the Sue Coletta article here, but it was rejected by the page moderator for no other reason than it disproved Rader as the Zodiac. This is convenient when your peddling a falsehood.
This is what Kimberly McGath said "Some have also proposed that Rader had an alibi because he was “stationed overseas” during some of Zodiac’s killings or letter writing. I have yet to see any evidence of a specific alibi on the specific dates, and Rader himself admits he traveled often during his time in the military. I have found several sources that not all military flights or personnel on board were logged and, in fact, some were intentionally avoided on covert missions."
The problem here is, its not our job to prove where Rader was on specific Zodiac dates. It's the job of the person proposing the suspect- and nobody can put Rader anywhere near Northern California. It's another blind alley.

Richard

12/31/2017 01:23:40 pm

https://www.suecoletta.com/who-is-the-zodiac/

Ray Jenkins

12/31/2017 02:15:05 pm

Thank Richard, You saved me having to answer this.
McGath is a nice enough person but I think she is barking up the wrong tree with this one. She has taken a gigantic leap into the unknown and believes she knows who the Zodiac was. As she is ex-law enforcement, I find it a bit ironic that she has left such gaping holes in what is essentially just a "pet suspect" theory. One would expect better from someone who was in law enforcement, to cross their t's and dot their i's before making extravagant claims. Her book reads more like the work of a sensationalist Tabloid journalist than a serious piece of peer-reviewed evidence. What ever happened to "beyond reasonable doubt"? Or do we just lock people up and throw away the key, based on a few similarities and coincidences and a "hunch"?

Ray Jenkins

12/31/2017 02:56:15 pm

https://www.suecoletta.com/who-is-the-zodiac/

That link is very revealing and is perhaps a great educating tool on the pitfalls of Zodiac research. :-)

The thing is, we could draw up a similar checklist of similarities and coincidences for about a dozen suspects and claim that any one of them was the Zodiac, based entirely on circumstantial evidence. And whenever we encountered some holes, we could just throw a rug over them and call them "convenient alibis". lol!

Take Lee Erwin Shackelford as just one example:

* he was a morse code and radio operator and proficient with radar.
* he was in the navy during the Korean War and took part in the Bay of Tonkin incident.
* he served on board USS Ticonderoga which is ship number 14 (i.e. "4-teen")
* the navy symbol resembles the strange symbol on the Halloween card and envelope.
* he had to leave the navy due to a nervous breakdown.
* he was often in trouble with the law and stole cars.
* he had a violent disposition who reputedly abused his wife and kids.
* he lived in the right place at the right time.
* he wore horn-rimmed glasses.

I am sure someone could write a neatly packaged little book which could provide a very convincing case that he was the Zodiac. Still, none of this would actually make him the Zodiac. There is the little problem of a thing called evidence.

One could also write a similar book about Barry Wysling and focus on his links to the Pythians, Freemasons and Elks. But ultimately, without any evidence, none of the coincidences with Zodiac symbolism would make him the Zodiac.

Ray Jenkins

12/31/2017 02:59:05 pm

Ha! Of course the Bay of Tonkin incident was Vietnam War. lol!

Lori F

1/1/2018 11:09:50 am

I caught the last two episodes of "Hunt for the Zodiac Killer" on the History channel and I am afraid I am hooked. I have been on the computer delving into endless information for weeks.

I find your forum helpful. Do any of you veterans out there have any great suggestions for sites that will bring me up to speed rather quickly?

I am an attorney with access to a lot of information so if you can direct me, you will know what I will know...

Lori

blue

1/1/2018 11:44:47 am

If I had your kind of access I would start with the Darlene Ferrin case.
a majority would say that that case could be the key. I better let you take it from there so you can be 100% objective. Don't listen to opinion.

Ray Jenkins

1/1/2018 11:58:42 am

War weary veteran here! lol!

Yes, by all means do your own research and take no notice of the history channel or anyone on the internet... least of all me. lol!

Do your own research and avoid getting lead astray, as there are lots of people out there who are only too willing to tempt you with their pet suspects or lure you down their particular rabbit hole.

There are more yarns getting spun daily than a 5 decades old ball of string that several alley cats have fought over many times and inter-tangled.

There is a vast warren of misleading and dimly lit burrows with dead ends just waiting for you. Descend into them at your peril.

Good luck! :-)

Lori F

1/1/2018 12:34:20 pm

Thanks for the direction. I had no intention of following the History Channel which is why I posted. Although Manson is interesting, I would rather concentrate my time on the Zodiac. Per Blue's instruction I will start on the Darlene Ferrin case. Anything you guys can give me as far as "true background" , "true and verified facts" would be helpful.

Lori

Ray Jenkins

1/1/2018 01:28:04 pm

The "true background" , and "true and verified facts". Golly, that is a difficult ask. Even the eye-witnesses seem to contradict one another at times. I'll leave this for others more qualified (such as Richard) to answer.

I've been separating fact from fiction for many years and still not sure about a lot of it. The case is a mess, made more messy by a multitude of amateurs getting in on the act over so many decades, and it will no doubt get messier as time goes by. The story continues to sprout new branches in the popular culture all the time, taking on a life all of its own. Some will even try to tell you the Zodiac is still alive and well and stalking them. (Whenever encountered, I can only suggest a grain of salt needs to be liberally applied!). There are lots of time wasters and "needy" people out there. Basically, if it sounds too extravagant to be true it probably is not true.

To avoid all potential pitfalls and problems, perhaps you should look only at the existing police records and familiarize yourself with the witness statements first. Have you looked at the FBI website? They have a a lot of redacted stuff relating to Zodiac, but be warned there are lots of dead ends on there as well.

1/2/2018 01:37:44 pm

Dear Lori F
I agree with Ray Jenkins and blue - with your access - were you to incorporate with Richard and his resources you guys could possibly solve this weird convoluted case once and for all.

Lori F

1/3/2018 09:24:45 am

Unfortunately Richard has not responded.

Richard

1/3/2018 12:00:59 pm

The best place to start is with the four confirmed crimes. I have written a comprehensive run down of the crimes under Lake Herman Road, Blue Rock Springs, Lake Berryessa and Presidio Heights available from the menu on this site. All crime scene photographs are available in color. This will give you a solid grounding of the facts. The next best thing to do, is flesh out this information using the police reports here http://www.zodiackiller.com/Victims.html
Then watch the Zodiac 2007 documentary here http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-documentary.html
This will bring you up to speed quickly. If you want to ask me any specific questions let me know here
grinsnort@googlemail.com

Lori F

1/7/2018 01:55:51 pm

Got it thanks

Lori F

1/16/2018 06:04:40 pm

So Richard, I have many questions. First though is how much it costs to maintain everything on the web. I would like to make a donation but I have no idea what it might cost.

My second question pertains to the 340 cipher and that will come under a different message.

Thanks,

Lori

Richard

1/17/2018 01:01:48 am

It is not a lot Lori. The cost of running the pro website is 86 dollars over 2 years. The same for the domain name. Until this year I also paid for a RSS feed box of approximately 70 dollars/year for unlimited feeds to world news that I have now downgraded for free. This is not a lot of money over 6 years, and I enjoy maintaining the website. I could plaster the site with Google ads and other paid links to retrieve that revenue like I did when I ran a Speedway site, but based on the content of the site I feel it's inappropriate to profit on murder. Not withstanding the fact, it would affect the loading and presentation of the website. That is why I choose to leave an optional donation button to just cover the running. I want to do a lot more in the future, possibly even creating a Kindle e-book, but I stick to a small and limited budget. As Tom Voigt and others would attest to, running a website is not about getting rich, it actually costs money, particularly if it's run ad free.
I certainly don't expect visitors to the site to donate anything, but if they do, only what they can afford.
You certainly can ask me a question about the 340 cipher, although I don't profess to be a cipher expert like Dave Oranchak. Many people ask therefore, why did I call the website Zodiac Ciphers. It's about presence in the search engines, by accommodating two key words- but fire away. Cheers, Richard.

Lori F

1/17/2018 03:45:14 pm

Well, I am making a contribution. I can see how much work has gone into this already. Just maintaining would satisfy me.

However, my 83 year old mother insists that I am corresponding with the Zodiac himself and that I have already provided too much information to my identification. I was very young when these crimes were perpetrated. If the Zodiac was only 20-35 years old as reported by some then he could still be with us.

So I must ask, if the real Zodiac is on this site, will you please stand up? And of course in doing so provide a swatch of shirt or keys or something to allow us to make certain that you are the Zodiac. Maybe a key to a cypher or a key to a cab? As I am coming into this 45 years late I would appreciate some new direction. Lori

I would be thrilled to get a clue (Clew) in the 21st century !! Please?

Richard

1/18/2018 12:42:47 am

You can assure your mother Lori that I am certainly not the Zodiac Killer, as Arthur Leigh Allen once said. I would have been 6 years of age in 1968 and resided in Coventry, England, so it would have required immense efforts of disguise and endeavour on my part.
I don't believe the Zodiac Killer will ever show his face- he was likely incarcerated or died in the 1970's. That is my take anyway.
He could be still with us, but I think uncovering his identity is the best we can hope for. Justice is long gone from a standpoint of punishment. Cheers, Richard.
Wish your Mom all the best, and I hope this puts her mind at rest.

Ray Jenkins

1/18/2018 05:43:00 pm

I think Richard is correct in his estimation that, given the huge amount of time that has elapsed, the Zodiac is no longer alive. If he is alive, I strongly suspect he would be grossly overweight and so physically and mentally ill he would be in a wheelchair. Perhaps he might still clobber someone with his walking stick or try to run them down with his mobility scooter, but it is very doubtful he would be alive and in good health.

The only people trying to convince us he is still alive and well seem to be very unreliable in their testimonies and consistently fail to provide any real evidence. It is of course possible that some of these people are being intimidated by others who have assumed the persona of the Zodiac, either because they know the person is interested in the Zodiac case or fear him, or both.

Most of the real crazies are well known to members of law enforcement, who, rumor has it, once kept a Top 10 List of Zodiac Loonies to refer to. By now the list has probably blown out to about a hundred or more, but law enforcement are no longer keeping count. It has been nothing short of amazing the way this case has attracted so many loonies. From a case about a serial killer it seems there has sprung a phenomenon known as "serial victim syndrome", ranging from people saying they have been stalked by the Zodiac to others believing he was their own father or relative. I guess this is due entirely to the fact that it was so well publicized by the media - too well publicized some might say, giving a voice to the egos of not just the Zodiac, but his copycats and the various wannabes in society. A lot of people seem to crave the spotlight and/or lead others to believe they have intimate knowledge of the suspect in order to project attention to themselves.

But with all this aside, there are still many good people researching the case, who do not gigantic egos or other agendas. Good luck in your endeavors!

blue

1/29/2018 02:33:57 pm

I gave the suspect Kane a chance and was fully convinced when I read what Alex put here http://www.zodiackiller.com/KaneReport1.html

blue

2/5/2018 10:07:11 am

Oops! To read a comprehensive analysis on Lawrence Kane, visit Alex Lewis' site at https://welshchappie.wordpress.com/
Sorry! Got things criss-crossed! That last thing is from his rival Tom.
To be fair I read both, and I like Alex's more.

Lori F

2/3/2018 05:15:41 pm

Well, when not working at my real job I have been reading as much as possible about this fascinating case. There is so much circumstantial evidence against so many suspects that I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that we will not be able to solve this case without forensics. I too have considered Kane but it is circumstantial like the others.

It really does not resonate with me that the forensics back then did not match, i.e. fingerprints or dna of those who were tested, because my recollection in practicing law in the 90s is that the DNA was very new and unstable and even fingerprints were not considered as an exact science. Eye witness and other witness "testimony" was pretty much thrown aside by the 1980s or early 90s as not a reliable and exact science, and so unreliable and unstable. I mean this is all you get when you look at the suggested suspects.

Several of you commented when I began this adventure that perhaps my status as an attorney in the US would be helpful in getting evidence released that has previously not been released. I am very willing to help with that but I am not sure what that would be. If you can give me some direct requests I will try to help.

Otherwise I think I am hoping and waiting for the History Channel to release a series again in which they get a match for their supposed Zodiac DNA.

I do have to say that I was entertained by that info/search/video done by that guy Captainfun. I found it very weird that the suspect would stand and talk with him, even to the extent of indicating that one of the weapons may have been made by his dad.

And Captainfun was a bit weird as well, and then disappeared. This is all very captivating but not solvable without DNA.

Shoot me a note if you would like me to pursue some type of info.

Lori

Ray Jenkins

2/3/2018 05:46:03 pm

I tend to agree with your conclusions entirely Lori. Like you, I am quite amazed of the sheer number of suspects and the good circumstantial evidence that can be pinned on almost all of them. This has led many researchers to ask with some disdain "Will the real Zodiac Killer please stand up?"

About the only suspects that the authorities ruled out on the basis of forensics (fingerprints, DNA) are Allen Leigh and Rick Marshall. But as you say, the evidence was unreliable and unstable, possibly only partial and highly contaminated too.

Basically, my feeling is that unless some old man steps forwards one day (assuming he can still walk) and confesses, the whole case will remain a mystery. But even then there will be doubters. I am sure the man will have to be able to provide a solution to the unsolved cipher and his prints and DNA will have to at least be a close match. The thing is, after so many years, even if the REAL Zodiac came forward, what if he says "The 340 cipher was just something I made up out of random characters. It has no solution." Very few of those who have grappled with solving this cipher for decades will believe him. The man will have to now things that only law enforcement knows. I am sure there must still be some secrets LE have withheld from the public all these years, which they have retained in the hope of catching the Zodiac.

As for Captainfun, he chose a bad pseudo to use online, as it tends to suggest he was taking everyone for a ride and having some fun in the process. That may not have been the case of course, but the names people use to anonymize themselves do sometimes speak volumes. I personally think that Captainfun was serious, but he went about the whole recovery of evidence backwards. Instead of confronting the owner he should have called the police as soon as he found the alleged knives in the wall and photographed everything in situ. People just don't seem to understand that evidence tampering and contamination will lead the police to think they are being taken for fools, and when someone combines such evidence with a wild and emotive theory about the Zodiac, well this is likely to turn them off completely. Captainfun may have been on to something. But why he chose to go about it the sensationalist way he did is anybody's guess.

blue

2/5/2018 01:36:11 pm

Lori - The info we need is - One: Was Kane related to Georgie Kaye the comedian and or the singer Danny Kaye both were billed with Kane's girl Eileen Barton. Two: Why did his marriage with the singer Eileen Barton end? Did Kane continue to "pine" for her afterward? Can you FOIA any of his mental hospital records? Can you get his DD-214? We need to find out the autos he owned, and the houses too. Also, Passports and business and gun licenses. Ect. ect. whatever you can dig up will help. I am desperate to find out anything you uncover. The idea is that for someone to get away with this so long he would of had to be well connected. I can see this - knowing how corrupt our system here in California is. The ruling class are untouchable.

Ray Jenkins

2/7/2018 02:44:08 pm

Wow, so many years have gone by and so much water under the bridge, but I must always admire the hopeful. I find the above interesting and, to be honest, also a little humorous. I do not mean to burst anybody's balloons, but, I wonder, even if you find all of that information, i.e. that he was related to famous people, he was "pining" for a lost love, he had mental health problems, he owned various autos that might have looked like the ones Zodiac drove, he lived at various locations that may or may not be associated with Zodiac activity, he had a gun license etc..... None of those things will be able to prove he was the Zodiac.

Similar circumstantial evidence has been drawn together for quite a number of potential suspects other than Kane, but still the case has stagnated. Although your efforts are commendable of course, I just wonder if you are fully aware of the problem? Even if we can pin vast amounts of circumstantial evidence on to a suspect, none of it will ever make him the Zodiac. It will just succeed in making him an interesting person, and most people accept this already. I guess we can but succeed in making him a bit more interesting? So long as you realize that this is about all such research can hope to achieve? As for attracting the attention of LE with any new information you may uncover, I can only say "Good luck with that". My bet is they will not be interested or at least will feign an interest in order to be polite. :-)

blue

2/8/2018 10:29:19 am

Maybe Kane said something to one of his shrinks?

blue

2/8/2018 01:45:19 pm

Lori

Could you please look into how Citizen Kane died? I mean can you get his death certificate? I know he was 86 but it would still be interesting to know how the American psycho Lawrence (Larry) Klein/Kaye/Kane/Barton/Cane died. And, if there was an autopsy? And, who and what did he leave behind? I here people are already visiting his grave in Nevada https://welshchappie.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/lawrence-cane-grave.jpg

2/13/2018 02:03:33 pm

The Church of Satan is a religious organization dedicated to Satanism as codified in The Satanic Bible. The Church of Satan was established at the Black House in San Francisco, California, on Walpurgisnacht, April 30, 1966, by Anton Szandor LaVey, who was the church's High Priest until his death in 1997. In 2001, Peter H. Gilmore was appointed to the position of high priest, and the church's headquarters were moved to Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan, New York City.[2] SIX months exactly before Bates Murder.

2/13/2018 02:12:53 pm

The above came from Wikipedia

1966 - Six month anniversary - obviously refers to the number of the beast.

Ray Jenkins

2/13/2018 03:30:07 pm

I am not denying a possible connection with Satanism, but it seems to me that the Zodiac never actually stated overtly (nor did he ever imply) any such connection. We also find lots of possible connections with Masonic symbolism... yet the Zodiac never actually claimed to be a Mason. However he did tend to reference and even court a few notable persons with Masonic leanings, which gives us some pause to consider the possibility. I note that some researchers try to blur the lines between Scientology and Satanism and various other churches/cults, but I suspect any such connections are more the realm of fantastic conspiracy theories than reality. These kinds of theories inevitably go nowhere, which is why people are still employing them after so many years. No possible resolution increases the intrigue and mystery, allowing such fantasies to continue their flight through the popular imagination. For all we know, the Zodiac may have been a lowly grease monkey employed in a garage, or a janitor at a school. He may have alluded to all manner of things greater than himself without actually belonging to any such groups, cults, religions... He may have been a loner on the fringes, looking in on the society of his time, and trying to make sense of his mental illness using the ideas his society and culture presented him at the time. Courting various fringe ideas from popular culture may have been all part and parcel of what constituted the Zodiac's mental state at the time. Perhaps Zodiac was merely reflecting some of the insanity in America's popular culture during that era in order to understand and legitimize his own.

2/14/2018 04:20:36 pm

Three letters were mailed on the six months anniversary of the slaying of Cheri Jo Bates. April 30, 1967 - Mt. Diablo and Phillips 66 O' Maje to the 1966 killing or + six(months) 666 for # of the beast reference. Zodiac animal Taurus - the bull often associated with the devil. Did Kane DOB 4-29-24 Taurus ware same mask as Crowley at Lake Berryessa?

Ray Jenkins

2/14/2018 08:41:04 pm

Nothing is conclusive. One could also argue that the multiples of 3 represent the "rule of 3" that is common to Masonic teachings. The costume could hearken back to something Medieval and therefore vaguely Christian in origin. The Zodiac sign could be White Supremacist, it could be Satanic, it could be Occult, it could be Medieval, or it could be Celtic Pagan. Nobody knows for sure. We can only speculate at best.

2/15/2018 02:39:43 pm

Walpurgis Night is the English translation of Walpurgisnacht [valˈpʊʁɡɪsˌnaχt], one of the Dutch and German names for the night of 30 April, so called because it is the eve of the feast day of Saint Walpurga, an 8th-century abbess in Francia. In Germanic folklore, Walpurgisnacht, also called Hexennacht (Dutch: heksennacht), literally "Witches' Night", is believed to be the night of a witches' meeting on the Brocken, the highest peak in the Harz Mountains, a range of wooded hills in central Germany between the rivers Weser and Elbe.[1] The first known written occurrence of the English translation "Walpurgis Night" is from the 19th century.[2] Local variants of Walpurgis Night are observed throughout Europe in the Netherlands, Germany, the Czech Republic, Slovenia, Sweden, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, and Estonia. In Denmark, the tradition with bonfires to fend off the witches going to the Brocken is observed as Saint John's Eve—essentially a midsummer celebration "with witches" (from Wikipedia). The Black House is near Donna Lass's house.

Ray Jenkins

2/15/2018 03:43:52 pm

Are you suggesting the Zodiac belonged to a Coven? lol! I am sure even the Zodiac would have been amused by that suggestion, but I am sure would have gleefully parodied the idea if it helped bloat his already inflated ego.

I know Manson once said that if you do something historic, make sure you leave something behind that is "witchy". But somehow I can't quite grasp a strong connection between Mansonism, Satanism, and the Zodiac. The Zodiac was more of a lone wolf, with his own crazy ideas.

2/16/2018 10:23:29 am

programed to kill (part 1-93 on Youtube ) zodiac called himself "sam".

blue

2/25/2018 12:20:40 pm

for yet another suspicious guy

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/dna-leads-to-arrest-in-30-year-old-sex-slayings-1.176374

THE ALBANY LETTER

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