THE 32 SYMBOL CODE- HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT

9/4/2018

The Zodiac Killer gave us a map code on June 26th 1970, stating the "map coupled with this code will tell you where the bomb is set." To this day no bomb has been unearthed and the threat was likely an idle one, designed primarily to create fear within the American community. However, the map and code were real, and the answer to both has probably been sitting in plain sight for nearly fifty years. The Zodiac, aware that the '32 Symbol' cipher was unable to be broken because it had 29 different characters, gave us all the answers one month later when he mailed the July 26th 1970 'Little List' letter.
The numerous suggested bomb threats were all mailed to the San Francisco Chronicle, so it was evident that his threats were focused on San Francisco itself - which is why the Mount Diablo map included San Francisco and Vicinity rather than just the area around Mount Diablo. The 'Little List' letter was replete with all the information required to crack his map code.
In the 'Button Map and Code' letter the author gave us the "map coupled with this code will tell you where the bomb is set," and just one month later, clearly told us that the code "concerns Radians & # inches along the radians" Therefore, the code will at least contain the words "radians" and "inches" in the answer - and that may very well be the case. In fact, it tells us exactly where the intended bomb was to be set, within the design of the crosshairs with the bold black circle. With the threats geared towards schoolchildren and police it is apparent that these are the likely targets. The reference to SFPD = 0 being incorporated within the crosshairs, along with an accentuated black, bold zero suggesting a location, should be the biggest clue of all. His intended target was the San Francisco Police Department - the location of which can be found within this bold circle.
The Zodiac Killer referenced "radians" and "inches" (not parts of radians and inches), so with probably just the use of a ruler back in 1970 the Zodiac Killer would measure his intended target this way. Therefore, if he is one eighth of an inch off in his measurements we can forgive him this textual indiscretion. Fortunately, we have Google maps, so the task is much easier.
With an intended target in San Francisco, there is only one answer possible to the "radians" and "inches" conundrum, and it's governed by geography. 1 radian = 57.3 degrees, 2 radians = 114.6 degrees, 3 radians = 171.9 degrees, 4 radians = 229.2 degrees and 5 radians = 286.5 degrees. This is detailed crudely on the map below.
It is apparent that Zodiac wasn't referring to 5 radians, as a line subtended from Mount Diablo at this angle would pass north of San Francisco. The same applies to 3 radians which runs parallel to San Francisco. Therefore, the answer has to be 4 radians or 229.2 degrees. The lines drawn below are only approximations, so are not pinpoint. 4 radians or 229.2 degrees passes over San Francisco somewhere in the vicinity of the airport - but this isn't the answer. If we add back the magnetic north value of 17 degrees in 1970, it equals 246.2 degrees. After all, Zodiac stated on the map, it was "to be set to Mag.N."
How do we know 246.2 degrees is the correct angle to be subtended from Mount Diablo? The answer is simple - Zodiac told us so. Place the crosshairs above over a compass rose. A line subtended from the center of the compass rose passes exactly through the center of the bold black circle. In other words, the bold black circle is positioned at 246.2 degrees around the crosshairs. This is 4 radians + 17 degrees (magnetic north). Now all we have to do is find the inches subtended along the 246.2 degree line. This is even easier.

The map scale is 6.4 miles to the inch, so the geography of San Francisco is self-constraining.
It is approximately 26.5 miles to the eastern edge of San Francisco from Mount Diablo (using the angle of 246.2 degrees).
4 inches would equal 25.6 miles, therefore, 4 inches subtended from Mount Diablo would land in the sea. Unless the Zodiac Killer had a submarine to bury his bomb this is not very likely.
It is approximately 34 miles to the western edge of San Francisco from Mount Diablo (using the angle of 246.2 degrees).
6 inches would equal 38.4 miles and again would land in the sea.
Therefore, the answer has to be five inches along the 4th radian (plus magnetic north of 17 degrees). If this lands over the San Francisco Police Department we are in business. But first, we shall fill in the '32 Symbol' code using the words or clue given by the Zodiac Killer in the July 26th 1970 'Little List' letter.
The section below is almost the complete solution to the '32 Symbol' cipher. Note how the Zodiac Killer inserts a hashtag style character between the "&" and "inches", with an arrow pointing between these two pieces of text. He is telling us to insert something here. We know from the above calculation it must be five inches, thereby completing the phrase:
"P.S The Mt.Diablo code concerns Radians & five inches along the radians"

The Zodiac Killer wasn't totally accurate, because the phrase should have read "P.S The Mt.Diablo code concerns Radians & five inches along the radian". The five inches to be subtended along the 4th radian (plus magnetic north) = 246.2 degrees.
There are only three repeating characters in the code below, the triangle, the letter C and the letter O. With the inserted solution, these three characters are now represented by R, A, N, N, E and N.

It was there in the Zodiac Killer's words all along; "The Mt.Diablo code concerns...... Radians & inches along the radian"
The last thing we have to do is place the large crosshairs with the black circle over the map of Mount Diablo, San Francisco and Vicinity. The location where the intended bomb was to be set should be 246.2 degrees and 5 inches subtended along a line drawn from Mount Diablo. It should also land over something to do with the San Francisco Police Department. Bearing in mind this was 1970 and the Zodiac Killer was using a ruler over a map, one eighth of an inch or so would be an acceptable margin of error, based on a map scale of 6.4 miles to the inch. The center and style of the black bold circle may be representative of a designer who intended the target to fall within this circle.
There was no room on the map below, but we can see that if the superimposed crosshairs were expanded over the city of San Francisco, the center of the bold black circle subtended at 246.2 degrees for 5 inches would fall over the San Francisco Police Department at Ingleside Station.
Ingleside Police Station is 31.06 miles from Mount Diablo. There are 6.4 miles to the inch. So Ingleside is 4.85 inches along the subtended angle of 246.2 degrees. Allowing for the leeway of crude measurement, this is 97% accurate in respect to 5 inches over the distance involved. This is why the Zodiac Killer placed SFPD next to the bold circle - it represented zero in mocking fashion, but more crucially, it represented the location of where the bomb was intended to be set - Ingleside Station or somewhere close by.

Click for Google maps. Distance between as the crow flies - 31.06 miles.

Richard Radetich, the fallen officer, possibly referred to in the Zodiac Killer 'Button' letter was initially assigned to Ingleside Police Station, before moving to Park Station and eventually to Accident Investigation.

101 Comments

Carl Krash link

9/4/2018 11:08:23 am

Bravo, Richard! You really hit it out of the park with this one. I came to inches along the radians by a different route but wasn’t looking for the bomb location. So I think you convincingly solved the 32 letter cipher. Congratulations! I say so because it matches the idiotic logic behind the 340 Cipher key- see my solution at ZodiacKMAK. This key was also ‘hidden in plain sight’. Cheers!

Richard

9/4/2018 11:29:32 am

I would love it to be so Carl, but I'm sure many will disagree. The more you look at these letters and codes the more you actually see. Often we look for complex answers, when the truth may be staring us in the face.
I have lately been looking into the language of the Zodiac Killer, from his past and present tense usage, to the types of communications he wrote or designed to what was topical in San Francisco at the time. There was a rudimentary bomb set off in the January of 1970, five months prior to the Button letter and 2 months after the Bus Bomb letter." KPIX Eyewitness News report from January 20th 1970 by Dave Monsees in San Francisco, featuring views of the damage to Hunters Point police station by a bomb attack. Includes views of the station and an interview with a police representative, who describes what happened."
This was an attack on a police station. However, their was much turmoil in San Francisco during this time, so attempting to make a connection to Zodiac is fraught with danger.
https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/217280

If you like Carl, just place direct links to your articles when posting for easy access. Your welcome to post links whenever.

9/4/2018 03:04:09 pm

Richard
This is great! I agree with Carl - I think you did it.
I took my time, and read things through carefully.
And, I could understand everything - even though I'm not a math guy.
I'm looking forward to hearing what a cipher guy like Rubislaw 32 says.

Richard

9/4/2018 03:58:18 pm

Rubislaw has his own solution to the 32 Symbol cipher which is different from mine, so simply on that basis our ideas are incompatible. Therefore Rubislaw won't agree with my attempted solve of the Button code. Differences of opinion are inevitable, but should never be seen as a problem.

Carl Krash link

9/4/2018 03:51:15 pm

I’m not saying Z actually planted the bomb at the police station. I think he may have only been taking credit for it. I laid out the inches along the circle to create a sort of dart board placing a circle at each inch. I thought for him to use the inches very significant. When I placed the locations of the murders on this ‘dart board’ overlay and drawing a circle at each inch I discovered something very curious. The Gun murders all occurred within the 5 inch circle. The Fire crime, the burning of the car, occurred between ring 5 and 6. The next ring would be Rope- nothing there. The Knife murder fits within the 7th ring. I propose that there were 4 killers in the group, each had been assigned a different weapon- some were more successful than others. The letter writer was the gunman. I believe there were motives in every case. Having trouble creating a link to the article “My Name is KMAK” but here’s the website ZodiacKMAK.com

See also the post there: ‘Z 340 Cipher Key Hidden in Plain Sight’. What I find very exciting is the way the logic and language in the Z 32 you’ve proposed above, like a key, giving the solve ‘five’, matches the Z340 Key I’ve proposed in it's logic, language and hiding-in-plain-sight goofiness. So well hidden...like a glitch or misspelling or an optical illusion- “but he can’t have meant...too ridiculous”

Richard

9/4/2018 04:00:00 pm

https://zodiackmak.com/2018/05/02/my-name-is-legion-under-construction-%F0%9F%94%A8/

Richard

9/4/2018 04:20:08 pm

The Rope segment (6th) encompasses the area of the crime at Berryessa. The rope wasn't the murder weapon but was integral to the crime, so could be placed in the 6th ring you want. Fire wasn't the murder weapon at Modesto. So on that basis, rope could be included in the sixth ring.

Carl Krash link

9/4/2018 05:41:47 pm

https://zodiackmak.com/2018/02/23/fon-cypher-references/ my own post on the Z32

Carl Krash link

9/4/2018 06:02:18 pm

Hmmm. I get Berryessa in the 7th. Unless you include the whole lake? I’ll recheck. I didn’t consider the rope to be integral but you’ve always made strong points about it. I’ll reconsider the 6 and 7 ring of the target.

Here is the post that shows the 340 key most clearly though it still needs some touch up (all blogs and site done on a very small iPhone) https://zodiackmak.com/2018/02/16/the-z340-cipher-solved-complete-with-patsy/

Toots

9/4/2018 07:16:51 pm

I've always felt that what Z meant with "where the bomb is set",
was "where I am located, where I live".

Draw a straight line 5 inches along the radian from Mt. Diablo and you get Mt. Tamalpais.

Take a look at the first 3 letters of each line of the code.
I believe it is the Z's initials (JFC)
C triangle J
X (marks) spot F

JFC triangle marks the spot.
The triangle is Mt. Tamalpias.
Of course, my suspect lived on that mountain during the Z years.

I'd like to pass you my research that I sent to a Sacramento police officer recently who felt it had enough weight...it was passed onto the FBI ViCap unit.

Richard

9/5/2018 12:54:24 am

I have had to refrain from handing out my email anymore, because I simply haven't got the time to look all the research people want assessing. If you want to expand on your suspect and theory, either link your blog or site here, or expand upon your idea in comments. Feedback from everybody is more important than what I think. The true test of an idea is the reaction it generates in the Zodiac community, and gives everybody a chance to assess it.
Countless people have sent their research off to police officers, the FBI and other investigators down the years. No doubt they have become swamped with researchers like us claiming to have the answers, and either reply in kind or flat-out ignore us. And besides, they are no more qualified to assess the validity of a solution than many of the researchers on the internet, who know much more about the Zodiac case than they do. From my experience they have effectively closed the book on this case, but still receive a bag load of correspondence every week. This avenue, in my opinion, will get you nowhere. The true test of a theory, is to place it in the public domain and guage the reaction.
If somebody places an attempted 'solution' to the 340 cipher on the internet and the reaction is equal to the Harden solution by overwhelming consensus, then you're onto something - otherwise not likely. My point being, what I think, or a police officer thinks is not important. I used to contact investigative bodies and police departments, but I soon found that they never reply. The reason being, they're not interested with Zodiac anymore, or the hundreds of emails they receive on a weekly basis. If they do reply once in a blue moon, I guarantee it is out of politeness. The route to validate any theory, is to open it up to the masses and if it's the answer you'll soon find out by the reaction or otherwise.
The problem with the Z32 code is it's simply too short to claim 100% a solution without a validated key. That goes for my attempt too.
Hopefully you will link or post it here so everybody can assess it.

Tom

9/5/2018 06:40:41 am

Randall Clemons has done extensive research on the above topic. It looks like your conclusions and his align. Your explanation is a little easier to read. Great job, Richard.

Toots

9/5/2018 08:22:35 pm

Using the work/solution of Randall Clemons on the "My Name is" cipher...I used his solution of "ConectTheDots" to physically connect the 4 dots of the symbol on the return address envelopes. Randall made a V, I make a C, which can make JFC, could be his initials. Not a big deal, you might say.

My theory on Z is that he researched his victims by reading newspapers, wedding announcements in the newspapers, phonebooks, school yearbooks found in libraries at the time, etc.

He targeted victims that had similar names to either himself, his family members, or his past.

I realize these crimes aren't all confirmed Z victims, but some law enforcement at one time believed they may have been.

Vern C. Smith - 6/2/63. Accomplice was JC Reed, Jr. My suspect's father was called JC.

Johnny Ray Swindle - 2/5/64. My suspect's first name.

Cheri Josephine Bates - 10/30/66. My suspect's mother and sister were named Josephine.

Lake Herman Rd - 12/20/68. One of the "eyewitnesses" had the same last name as my suspect.

Darlene Ferrin - 7/4/69. DOB = St. Patrick's Day. Suspect's family is extremely Irish.

Cecelia Shepard - 9/27/69. Suspect's mother's middle name was Cecelia.

John Franklin Hood - 2/21/70. First name of suspect.

Judith Hakari - 3/7/70. Lived in the Arden neighborhood of Sacramento, CA. Suspect's sister was Judith. Suspect's boyhood residence was on an Arden Dr.

Kathleen Johns - 3/22/70. Suspect's first name.

Thomas Victor Dolan, Thomas Hayes - 7/4/70. Suspect's brother was named Thomas.

Donna Lass - 9/6/70 - Suspect's ex-wife was a native Scot, a "Lass", a young women.

Nancy Bennallack - 10/25/70 - Same Arden neighborhood as the above Hakari.

Suspect was ex-military. Suspect lived in North Bay.

Richard

9/6/2018 12:14:35 am

I presume your suspect is still alive Toots.

Toots

9/9/2018 07:37:02 pm

Richard,
I think your solution to the 32 cipher is excellent.

Has anyone ever considered this as the reason why Z wrote
"is to be set to Mag. N”?

The North pole is really a South Pole (and vice versa)

In Physics, all magnets or compasses have a north-seeking pole. It is the end that points north. This is often colored red on a magnet or compass. The opposite poles of two magnets attract. Therefore, when the red end of a magnet or compass is pointing north, it is because it is being attracted in that direction by the south end of another magnet (often colored blue) – this is the imaginary magnet inside the Earth.

I turned the Phillips 66 Map upside down (setting the zero to the blue, south end of a compass)

I then overlayed the Halloween Card skeleton to the northern section of the SF Bay.

The feet of the skeleton fit (which make an equilateral Triangle, which is important) into Marin County and Mill Valley, CA, specifically.

The Earth is a magnet that can interact with other magnets, so the north end of a compass magnet is drawn to align with the Earth's magnetic field. Because the Earth's magnetic North Pole attracts the "north" ends of other magnets, it is technically the "South Pole" of our planet's magnetic field.

Richard

9/9/2018 11:55:01 pm

There have been multiple solutions given for the 32 symbol code and map. It all depends on what location you think he intended the bomb to be set. I concluded it was San Francisco because virtually all his letters and cards were centered on San Francisco and only 4 radians and five inches could fall within San Francisco, coupled with the SFPD=0 taunt.
Mount Tamalpais is 37.50 miles from Mt Diablo, so is 5.86 inches from Mt Diablo, Using this as the template, the radian would be 6 inches. The magnetic north value has been covered many times before Toots. Here is one http://zodiackillerfacts.com/The%20Mt.%20Diablo%20Map.htm
Everybody has a valid opinion - I have tackled this problem numerous times, originally coming up with San Francisco International Airport as the target, because its 229 degrees before you add the 17 degrees of magnetic north, but it didn't incorporate the threat on police, which I believe is crucial to all the material he mailed at that time. If you have a theory you believe in, go with it. If it differs to mine, then we have two competing theories. The world would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything.
Randall did a lot of work on the overlay theory and I have nothing but good things to say on Randall. He has done extensive work on the Zodiac and deserves much credit. Obviously our theories again conflict, but you take you pick, or none at all. I think the 32 symbol cipher and map code maybe beyond proving to everybody's satisfaction. It still lacks the crucial number of characters. Not to mention 29 unique characters, meaning you can literally make it read whatever you want.

Carl Krash link

9/5/2018 07:39:56 am

Richard, I understand somewhat where you’re coming from. But...there are other avenues popping up now for Zodiac investigation: filmmakers, reporters investigating the DNA GSK Z link, new tv reports. I have a perfectly good 340 solution but find I had to take alternative routes to get it looked at. The Zodiac community has devolved into ego mush and so I felt I had to avoid the websites. Not to say discoveries weren’t made but they are few and far between. So I started my own website. Even there I run into a wall of skepticism, though I’ve had visitors from many different countries. It will take a lot more than what it took for the Hardens at this point to have a solution recognized because there have been 50 years of wrong solutions building up the skepticism. But here’s the deal- if you believe you’ve found the code KEY as I think you have now with the 32, then you have to fight for it. Because that is how these ciphers will be solved- and they will be solved- the keys are there I’m convinced. Zodiac wanted them solved because he wanted to see if anyone could play the game of deception as well as him

Toots

9/6/2018 03:15:16 am

Died a couple of years ago.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/6/2018 04:26:44 am

''Zodiac wanted them solved because he wanted to see if anyone could play the game of deception as well as him.''

I believe this is ''so true'',Karl.

It's just that,with the ''340'' Zodiac overextended himself,on ''degree of difficulty'',but in time,was content for settling for the ''340'',to find an enigmatic life of its own.

After all,Zodiac could have posted the solution to the ''340'',had he wanted to....but,after an elapse of time,he realised that the solution's purpose,no longer had pertinent meaning,for the period of ''enlighten ment'' envisaged.

Zodiac adored engaging with Paul Avery,but had a ''hissy fit'',when Marc Spinelli,wouldn't play ''ball''.

Carl Krash link

9/6/2018 03:50:01 pm

Thanks Rubislaw33. Btw I think the letter re Spinelli is a fake. But yes I get your point.

Meanwhile here is another new Zodiac exploration on the way
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/iheartradio-teams-with-atlanta-monster-producers-on-season-two/ar-BBMXkbe

Rubislaw 32 link

9/6/2018 04:32:05 pm

A pleasure,Carl.....and sorry about spelling your name,with a ''K''.

Most certainly,''each to his own'',but I have enough trouble,trying to persuade others,that some ''unconfirmed'' correspondences,such as the Fairfield letters,are genuine Zodiac......without realising that some folk are refuting ''confirmed'' correspondences,such as the ''Count Marco'' letter.

Perhaps,we should just all agree,that we don't trust the word,of the CA DOJ [?].

It would certainly be easier.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/7/2018 01:13:19 am

On the matter of ''confirmed'' and ''unconfirmed'' correspondences :

In can be difficult to take the distinction seriously,following the debacle over the ''Toschi Fan Mail'' scandal.

First and foremost,though Toschi admitted to being responsible for fan mail being sent to himself....there really wasn't any doubt,that he was responsible for ''purported'' Zodiac correspondence.

But of course,the CA DOJ were rightfully mortified,and concerned with how it might affect the legitimacy of the Zodiac case.

The CA DOJ believed they needed to alleviate fears,that they might be taking the case,anything but seriously.

Sadly,the April 1978 letter,was given an extra airing of suspicion,and this turned into a media circus event,and public relations nightmare.

As a consequence,the CA DOJ,with assistance from the FBI,never re-visited the issue over validation of Zodiac correspondence again,in public.

So,post April 1978 correspondences,we the public,just don't know whether the authorities ''know'' whether the correspondences,are genuine,or not.

The ''nub'' of this is that,whatever opinions are offered by the so called experts,in the field of handwriting analysis....the true litmus test,will be decided by ''Forensics''.

My assumption is,that any correspondence,that has been officially authenticated,by the CA DOJ.....is because it has been ratified,through a forensics link.

So,I have to admit to seeing it,as a bit on the ''indulgent'' side,for some people,to simply ''elect'' not to believe in the authenticity of correspondences,officially ratified by the authorities.

Carl Krash link

9/10/2018 04:01:14 am

Rubislaw 32 (I always think of some combo between coleslaw and rhubarb when I see that name- forgive me) the Count Marco letter seems to have lead others down many a blind alley. It either is or it isn’t. The Toschi conspiracy is one of the weirdest things in the whole investigation. Just having reread Zodiac Unmasked it seems to me the case was driving him nuts by the late 70s.
Toots I’m curious as to why you’d place the skeleton over the map. What’s the connection? First thing to come to mind is ‘skeleton key’. The 14 in the hand of the skeleton from my Investigations refers to Revelation 14. I see it as being a significant clue due to its emphasis.
Richard every time I try to look at Randall Clemons work online I get caught in a jumble. Is there a link or a summary somewhere? As regards the 32 tho- if you have such doubts that it will ever be solved, why do you keep trying? I still think you’re really on to something this time.

Toots

9/10/2018 05:05:30 am

Thanks Carl,
When I turned the map upside down and looked at the north Sf bay area I immediately saw the outline of the skeleton's lower half. Its pelvis fits into bay north of the GG bridge. Its triangle feet fit into Marin County. I believe Z spread out his clues across various correspondence, just like mailing his 3 letters to 3 different newspapers

Really interesting on the Revelation 14. Its the fourteenth chapter of the Book of Revelation or the Apocalypse of John in the New Testament of the Christian Bible. The book is traditionally attributed to John the Apostle.

This fits my suspect even more.

Carl Krash link

9/16/2018 10:50:08 am

Toots, I tried overlaying the skeleton and while analyzing the Halloween Card I think I may have made an additional discovery. If you turn the (inside) card so that the eyes face downward the ‘Z + target/register mark’ becomes a N arrow found on arch’l and site plans. Placing the target over Mt Diablo as shown on the Phillips 66 map the skeleton lays sideways over Pittsburg/ Antioch. This is the neighborhood of my suspect. Anyway I’ve posted a new blog about it. If you wish to be credited for something just tell me https://zodiackmak.com/2018/09/11/from-antioch-%e2%9b%aa%ef%b8%8f%f0%9f%95%8d%f0%9f%95%8c-under-construction-%f0%9f%9a%a7/

Sigmund

9/16/2018 03:06:25 pm

Here's a thought. Maybe you have to stand on your head on to of Mt. Diablo lookout and hold the compass upside down between your feet while whistling Dixie in the dark and facing your posterior towards SFPD as the point of absolute zero while turning the card sideways and superimposing the eye holes from the Halloween card on to the suspects on the distant horizon?

Carl Krash link

9/17/2018 06:48:04 am

Hey Sigmund, I’m a-Freud I didn’t quite get that. Tried it a few times and each time I end up with ‘Eddie Munster’! But seriously folks, if the Z is actually an N, then maybe the weird brand symbol should also be looked at turned 90 degrees

Sigmund

9/17/2018 04:33:03 pm

It goes without saying, it is very easy to make too much of this whole Zodiac persona and you can end up turning him into some kind of ubiquitous, legendary, megalomaniacal, genius, who was bigger than Jesus and the Beatles combined.

As for the Halloween Card, it's identity still remains a mystery, so it would be almost impossible to draw any conclusions about the skeleton representing a map, for example.

It often surprises many people to learn that the card which has become so well known to us on the internet is in fact a replica from the movie about the Zodiac Killer. It is currently NOT known how accurate this replica is compared to the original one received by Paul Avery all those years ago! It is also NOT known whether it was embellished with artistic license for the movie. Was it merely a stage prop designed on the fly and shown to Paul Avery who, after so many years, believed it looked close to the one he had received all those years ago? We really have no way of knowing how accurate it is or, for that matter, if it is to scale. Perhaps it merely looks "something like" the original one?

As far as I know, it is still not known if the Zodiac meticulously hand drew the skeleton, perhaps by tracing an outline from some other source, or if he simply purchased a sticker and pasted it in. Also, nobody has been able to find an original of the same stock Halloween card in the wild, although it must have existed. Perhaps there are people out there who are sitting on their originals because they understand their value. But it does seem very unusual that the stock card, which was perhaps only produced as a small run, has disappeared from the world.

Dave Oranchak tried to research the source of the card at one time.

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=2899

Others have also pondered its reality from time to time.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?t=2893&p=44694

Question: Did Tom Voigt ever get to see and photograph the original Halloween card when he was given privileged access to some of the Zodiac files in recent years? I cannot recall seeing it, but the Zodiac universe keeps expanding at an exponential rate. It is a very difficult task separating fact from legendary fiction at the best of times. It is sadly becoming more and more difficult to do so. Everyone wants to throw their own "brand" on the case and in so doing they often keep fueling up the myth mills. It just gets crazier and crazier.

Carl Krash link

9/17/2018 07:11:30 pm

My comment regarding the Halloween Card was not so much concerning the skeleton itself. I was aware of many of the theories about the origins of skeleton and the original greeting card. Some who’ve been on the case for awhile now quote from the older websites as if they were quoting Jesus or even John Lennon! Are you putting the following in question:

-The word Boo and it’s positioning?
-The Boo Radley knothole in the tree, its text or the positioning and number of the other eyes?
- the brand, the Z and it’s placement and the target/register size and placement?

I find Richard’s post about the card’s tie in to ‘Kill a Mockingbird’ compelling. Are you saying his theories there are based on an inaccurate reconstruction of the card only?

My suspect fits with the Mockingbirdtheories. KaRADanis contains RAD. He was born Dec. 26th the release date of the movie. His name fits perfectly into the 13 character cipher with the letters N A M E left over.

Orienting the skeleton over a map using Mt Diablo in the way I’m suggesting is simply shifting the focus and locus to the Pittsburg, Concord, Martinez and Antioch stretch where Karadanis lived, went to hs, met his wife, married, had an office and kept his Anatolian Greek family. He employed Larry Kane along with partner Robert Maloff- and may have known Greek-American POI Xenophon Anthony. His wife’s family was from Arkansas....

Sigmund

9/17/2018 07:27:15 pm

You make it fairly clear that you have already made your own mind up, so there is really no point in anyone else suggesting otherwise. :)

Karen C

9/17/2018 07:36:49 pm

Richard, The legitimacy or at least reliability of the Halloween Card as it exists ad nauseum on the internet would make an interesting topic in its own right! I must say I have never seen an example of the Halloween card posted on the net with an SFPD validation number and stamp! Has anyone ever tried to get to the bottom of this? I know I can only speak for myself when I say I only trust evidence from the "horse's mouth" rather than what has been digested and passed from its rear end. HaHa! Validating the source of evidence should be the prime objective of any investigation. Making conclusions based on what is potentially a corrupted or inaccurate version of real evidence, however slight, is fraught with dangers that should be obvious to any researcher or investigator.

Richard

9/18/2018 12:50:38 am

I shall have a look, but here is an image from the newspapers of the day, 37 years before the movie.
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/published/halloween_1.gif?1506102186

Karen C

9/18/2018 02:40:29 am

Thanks Richard, This is excellent. Seems like the replica must be a fairly accurate representation of the original. The scale is of course still the great unknown. It seems Randall Clemens has pondered this scale problem in the past and did resolve the issue to some extent by making comparisons with the newspaper photos.

http://340cipherhalloweencardconnection.blogspot.com/2015/05/the-facts-about-zodiac-killer-halloween.html

Richard

9/10/2018 06:26:37 am

I actually agree to a certain extent with what you previously posted Carl in that, if somebody did actually find the definitive answer to any cipher or card it would probably fall under the radar, in a Zodiac scene awash with multiple theories on the same topic. We all probably disagree on the 340 cipher, but it's down to others to decide which is the most compelling argument.
I actually enjoy the challenge of unsolved mysteries, Zodiac or otherwise. I honestly believe there is about a 0.01% chance this case will be solved, without access to the sort of information available to police. Information that will never become available to us. The Cheri Jo Bates case being case in point. It is 52 years cold, but the records are still locked and gathering dust. Why not release all the information (minus the names of people still alive) and give people with more time than them to investigate for free. The police are strapped for cash and manpower, but fail to utilize the power of the public. The alternative is what we have seen - a case going nowhere. I remember the police appeals for help regarding the Golden State Killer. This is all very well, until you contact them, and get no reply ever. It's a two way street - something they fail to appreciate. Nevertheless Carl, I just enjoy the challenge - but I am realistic enough to understand that we are no nearer to identifying the killer than we were on December 21st 1968. That is not heartening progress. In fact, I believe we are further away than ever before. But without access to all police records, a database of vehicle records, homeowner records, prison records etc, which is needed to push this case forward, we are left with the internet, and that isn't enough to crack open this case. I try my best when looking into the codes and ciphers, but I wouldn't be so bold as to claim the definitive answer. That is not for anybody to claim on their own behalf. Subjective opinion is never a good indicator of a solution and hence we must remain objective at all times, even if it is difficult to do.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/10/2018 01:47:51 pm

Certainly some interesting points made and ideas offered.

Just to pick up,on a few details....

The Count Marco letter,was,of course addressed to the Editor,and not Marc Spinelli,himself.Perhaps,Zodiac wishing to ensure that Spinelli,got to hear about it.With both 1990 correspondences,for example,there is some evidence that,they were both intended for Paul Avery,but deliberately sent to the Vallejo Times and SF Chronicle....with Avery working for the Examiner,at the time.

It seems,that sometimes,Zodiac feared that a screening system for newspaper incoming mail,would see his correspondence,in the hands of the police,before intended recipients,''received'' Zodiac,first hand.

The ''Marco'' letter certainly appears to be a new style of writing.But it is officially ratified,and there is some evidence,that Spinelli had started to bait Zodiac,with subliminal messaging,in ''Marco'' columns,leading up to the apparent death threat.

To,perhaps,turn the Phillips map,on its head....if you do turn it upside down,the arrow is pointing to a circle and ''Clayton'',But,instead of ''3,6,9'',we appear to be seeing ''E,g,b'',at the three points.

''E g b'' stands for ''Exhaust gas boiler'',which,at the time in 1970,was being touted as a possible introduction to motorcars,in the fight against reducing exhaust emissions pollution.

Indeed,a very sad affair,regarding the Toschi Fan Mail scandal.Toschi had been on the Paul Stine murder case,for nearly ten years,and a combination of complacency and despondency on failure,to date,may have contributed [?].

If anyone is ''bothered at all'',Rubislaw derives from ''Rub'' is law,I presume.''Rub'',as in ''There's the rub''.....the ''obstacle''.

With Zodiac research and investigation,the ''Obstacle'' tends to be ''Law'',or a ''Given'' [?].

''Obstacle is a given''.

9/10/2018 05:11:12 pm

Rubislaw 32

I wanted to ask you about the Egb - is this boiler - like a catalytic converter?
Also, I wanted your thoughts on -
The Hearst mansion in the Amador Valley near Pleasanton, California was destroyed by fire in 1969
Could Randolph Hearst with his News Paper empire have been mixed up in this boogie man slash "villain" called the zodiac?
The Mansion was a few miles directly south of Mt.Diablo.
Also, that is interesting about Rub is law being separate words at-one-time
What about 32 - is that a reference to the 32 cipher?

Rubislaw 32 link

9/10/2018 06:24:43 pm

Some interesting questions,BB,and I could be stretched to give you conclusive answers.

I think you are close,on the ''catalytic converter'',not being very technically minded,myself.The ''Egb'' had proven a success,with maritime vessels,and,in 1970,it was big news for keen motorists.But,I don't think it worked out as a viable solution,for road vehicles.

So,could be Zodiac,up to his ''duplicity'',again [?].

Very interested,to hear about the Hearst mansion.I have picked up,albeit unsubstantiated information,from a number of books,that Zodiac may well have been an arsonist,as an extra feather in his cap of terror.

So,''By Fire'' may mean precisely that [?].

The Great Fire of Lynn 1981,could have been his,and since it seems likely,that the Zodiac is the No.1 suspect,for Joan Webster's murder,then he will also be suspected of the 1981 Fire.

In addition,we have the Hearst ownership of the SF Chronicle,to consider also.

''Rubislaw 32'' is really part of an address of a mansion house,I once carried out renovation work,for.....with Scottish ''roots''.

Yea...more and more,I am seeing this ''arsonist'' angle,coming into play.

[...we already know that he was an ''a*sh*le''....]

Toots

9/12/2018 06:04:24 pm

BB, you also have Patty Hearst and the SLA mentioned by Z.

Toots

9/10/2018 06:12:17 pm

Rubislaw, nice find on the EGB, check this out...

1865 - APPALLING DISASTER; Boiler Explosion On Board the Albany Steamer St. John. Ten Persons Killed and Seventeen Scalded and Wounded. Harrowing Scenes

https://www.nytimes.com/1865/10/30/archives/appalling-disaster-boiler-explosion-on-board-the-albany-steamer-st.html

Interesting that this steamer boat from Albany, NY, was named the St. John.

Too many "John's" coinincidences in this Z case.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/10/2018 06:31:21 pm

Thanks Toots,and I'll read up,on the 1865 Albany Steamer explosion.

Karen_C

9/10/2018 04:14:39 pm

How can that cipher "solution" be even remotely correct???

Karen_C

9/10/2018 06:02:16 pm

Oh, I like your ideas about the Mt. Diablo map Richard. I'd say there is even a good chance that you could be correct! If the Zodiac didn't mean exactly that, he probably meant something LIKE that. The Zodiac loved to be obscure and what better way to be obscure than to use a little known and basically obsolete method of determining angles and distances on maps. He wanted to appear smart. Well IMHO he succeeded in being a huge smart ass, if nothing else. Basically I think he was just your typical "wise guy". :-)

Sigmund

9/10/2018 09:10:40 pm

The only problem I have with the radians theory presented here is that radians by definition must go counter-clockwise. The angles depicted by Richard go clockwise, so they cannot technically be termed radians. See the following animated gif.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4e/Circle_radians.gif/300px-Circle_radians.gif

Radians also geometrically begin at the 3 o'clock position, or East (E), with 0 at North (N), just as the Zodiac told us. Radians do not begin at Zero ("North"). The start position must be determined when North is set to Zero on your compass.

In terms of distance, a complete revolution is 2π radians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian#/media/File:Degree-Radian_Conversion.svg

Here is a radian wheel showing corresponding degrees.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian#/media/File:Degree-Radian_Conversion.svg

Sigmund

9/10/2018 09:15:55 pm

Correction. In that one link above:

In terms of distance, a complete revolution is 2π radians.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radian#/media/File:2pi-unrolled.gif

Richard

9/11/2018 02:33:28 am

This is very true Sigmund. Because Zodiac referenced magnetic north and labelled the crosshairs 0,3,6,9 in clock form, with the beginning point at zero, I considered that he was using radians in the negative, using the basic measurement of 57.3 multiplied by four around this clock face. In other words, he is just interpreting 4 radians as 229 degrees and using this measurement for the purpose of his clock. I accept always my idea was not the intention.

Richard

9/11/2018 02:35:57 am

"I accept always my idea was not the intention."
Correction;
I accept my interpretation of what Zodiac meant, may not necessarily be the case.

Richard

9/11/2018 05:45:44 am

Even from the 3 position anticlockwise, only 4 radians would still fall over San Francisco (including magnetic north).

Richard

9/11/2018 05:55:13 am

"The word “survey” is defined as determining and delineating the form, extent, position, etc., of, as a tract of land, by taking linear and angular measurements, and applying the principles of geometry and trigonometry. As noted earlier, navigators and surveyors measure radians by degrees in accurately determining the precise geographical locations on a map as well as on the earth itself. Therefore, if the radians are intended to indicate a geographical location, these radians would most logically be measured in degrees. The radians would somehow be located and marked on the map, possibly using both Mt. Diablo and Magnetic North as references. Once the radians were located on the map, it would be necessary to measure a number of “inches along the radians” in order to narrow the search for the location in question. Of course, it would also be necessary to decipher the “Mt. Diablo code” to determine its true meaning and accurately place these radians on the map."
http://zodiackillerfacts.com/myths-legends/debunking-the-radian-theory/

This is closer to what I meant Sigmund, using Mt Diablo and magnetic north as the reference point to subtend 229 degrees clockwise.

Richard

9/11/2018 05:57:24 am

The black circle supports the premise of 4 rads.

Karen_C

9/11/2018 04:10:37 pm

Maybe so, but I personally think that the Zodiac was "full of it". This was just another taunt from an insane man designed to waste people's times by engaging in pointless and unsolvable mental games. This is possibly the most logical explanation! So on that crude scale he pointed to San Francisco from Mt. Diablo? Some might correctly say to the Great and Almighty Astrological One "Well so %$^*&#@ what?" I tend to think this whole "radical radians" rubbish merely provides evidence that the Zodiac was in fact an amateurish moron who pretended to be clever. A typical "wise guy" in fact. It is about as pointless a pursuit as Zodiac buttons.

Sigmund

9/11/2018 04:38:36 pm

A valid point! A Zodiac button is of course a full circle and with the symbol in the center it divides the circle vertically and horizontally into 4 rads, thus proving that the Zodiac knew how to count. Haha!

Evidently he also knew which way was "up" (north) on his compass, which is probably beneficial when hunting critters in the woods. Otherwise the hunter might quickly get lost.

So what can we really deduce from all of this?

1) He probably never got lost and

2) he could count and

3) he could probably average crude distances using radians and inches, if he had a compass (or he could have simply used a watch!), and

4) he also knew how to draw a straight line.

And provided we have interpreted his radians idea successfully, we could add:

5) He had a "thing" for cops and San Francisco.

To presume from this that he had a good understanding of geometry and calculus is really to take a gigantic stab into the dark. The evidence that he was well educated and an expert in mapping is simply not there. But there is ample evidence that he was in fact no more highly educated than the average Joe in the street. Most "average" people have a keen interest in something, be it a sport they play or a hobby. I think Z was simply rehashing things he was familiar with in a way that made him seem more learn-ed than he actually was. He was perhaps a bit of a bookworm when it suited him, but only in so far as the books were related to his particular interests. But really, even the average back woods "Cletus" would likely possess a greater knowledge of orienteering than the Zodiac.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 06:59:15 am

It seems apparent that Zodiac was drawing ''freehand'',when telegraphing clues on geometric angles.

I think,Richard,you are pretty much ''spot on'',with perceived calculations,as Zodiac intended to convey.

It certainly suits my perception,that his pronounced circle,was indicating a ''pointing'' line,to fall over ''Hunter's Point'',and the then location,of Candlestick Park.

But,to state the obvious,these things will remain debated,until Zodiac informs us,himself.

Many cryptic clues,but really,only three [homophonic] cryptographic ones.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 07:29:52 am

Just on a general observation about Zodiac's extent of Science education,and learning.

[....for,on the academic Arts side,the sky's the limit,for all we really know.].

Zodiac was well grounded,in the fundamentals of geometry.Hence,at least a solid school education,in mathematics.

In addition,he may have had a decent grasp of fundamental Algebra,which would have stood him in good stead,for the purposes of ''Cipher making''.

But,it has to be said,that there is no evidence of a solid grasp for,at least basic trigonometry.And,certainly not,an advanced understanding of Calculus.

Had there been,I am sure that Zodiac would have displayed some,given that Calculus rendered Geometry obsolete,apart from for the purposes of basic mathematical learning.

Hence,I would conclude that Zodiac worked,in an environment,that required ''Applied Mathematics'',with ''almost'' compelling evidence,that he was a [largely] ''indoors'' Engineer.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 08:20:43 am

.....yes,the science of Calculus,could be the ''giveaway'',on Zodiac's limitations.

As the poet,and first admitting atheist,Alexander Pope,proclaimed :

''And God said,'Let there be Newton'.And there was light.''.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 12:37:46 pm

Hi Richard

Though BB has justifiably brought up the subject of ''By Fire'' again,I have to admit,that the murder of Elaine Davis,has not been too far from my thoughts.

Her body being discovered,in Pacific waters,off Lighthouse point,on the December 19th 1969,having gone missing,three weeks earlier,from Walnut Creek.And,having complained of being stalked,by a man,driving a ''small blue car'',in the days leading up,to her disappearance.

Significantly perhaps,we see Zodiac probably writing a letter to Melvin Belli,either the day of her discovery....or the following day....and possibly showing more humility and remorse,than in any letter,that he ever sent.

Given that you have recently put on the table,the possibility that Zodiac,had or did own a powder blue Pontiac Firebird,do you think that ''Power Blue'' is significantly blue enough,to just call ''blue'' [?].
And,do you think that a Pontiac Firebird,is significantly small enough,to just call ''small'' [?].

Any comments about this subject,would be of interest.

Richard

9/11/2018 01:12:57 pm

His vehicle at Berryessa was described by the three girls as sky blue or light blue and had long taillights. The Firebird suggestion was a real stab in the dark (sorry about the pun), but it had horizontally shaped long taillights. The only thing about Elaine Davis that remotely resembles anything Zodiac has been connected to, is his possible abduction of Kathleen Johns and Donna Lass, but from what we can confirm, never from a home residence. I have read just about all I can on this crime and see little to suggest any Zodiac involvement. The Melvin Belli letter, rather than Zodiac pleading for help, has to me anyway, a rather more sarcastic element to it.
There were many newspaper articles preceding the Belli letter asking Zodiac to contact the newspapers, offering advice and generally pondering his mental state. The Belli letter was simply taking the piss. I don't like to say this, but the Halloween card arrived after the disappearance of Donna Lass, with the "by fire" reference. Had he killed or disposed of her body in the snowy recesses of Lake Tahoe using such a method. Probably unlikely, but unless the burning of the Johns vehicle was the meaning of "by fire", it isn't impossible. In regards to Elaine Davis, I doubt much progress can be forged to implicate Zodiac as a likely suspect in her murder. I have looked at it extensively.
On another point Detective Poyser said this in the Sacramento Bee "Poyser declined to identify the lab, but said it would attempt to obtain a full DNA profile from saliva on the envelope flap and stamps. He said he expected to have results back from the lab as soon as in the next few weeks, and almost certainly by summer."

Summer ends on September 23rd, which means approximately 6 months since they mailed the July 31st letters. This case is effectively dead in the water. Unless they concentrate on what they do know of the killer and cross check it with likely geographical locations of his residence, then this case finishes here. Sad, but realistic.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 01:42:17 pm

Thanks Richard,and I take on board the sober and ''reality check'' nature of your comments.

The ''small blue car'' and your Firebird suggestion,came at the same time,for me....and I am probably just putting a few things together....that ''appear'' to fit.Not least that Ms.Davis could be ''victim No.8'' ,and the point at which Zodiac realises that he has ''crossed the line'',on his mental approach to killing.

With regard to the ''6 months up'',at least it is now the time,whether we see if any newspapers have the balls,to start asking more probing questions....starting with ones directed at the Vallejo Police [?].

Somehow,I don't think that its going to happen.But you never know [?].

After posting some unkind comments about the CA DOJ,on your site,I mysteriously lost contact,with the internet,for two hours....even though my hub was working just fine.

These ''glitches'' have only ever been of 5 minutes duration,in the past.

''Just my imagination,running away with me'' ?

Probably.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 04:53:27 pm

On a matter of case morale,we must remain hopeful.

All the things,I said about ''Departments Of Justices'',are genuine observations,and stand by them.

By my estimation,knowledge of a match,between a DNA profile of the Zodiac,and ''ownership'' of that DNA,has been known for at least 18 months.....with ''suspicion'' of that ownership,going back,about 4 years.

When some sort of resolution is found,it is more of a case of ''you do the math''.But,it is not unreasonable,to surmise ''the ticking time bomb'' scenario....and I know of one journalist that has used this expression,though unlikely to be aware of the ''scale'' of crime,to which the remark was aimed.

The wait continues.

9/11/2018 06:13:24 pm

Of the suspects at our feet ALA would have to be the most likely for the murder of Elaine Davis. He was a hell of a swimmer and scuba diver. Her body was found the day after his birthday in the ocean. The girl was still intact to some degree which means she could not have been dumped longer than a day. As the conditions are so brutal - when ever I swim out in that same area my skin starts to peal off my hands after only an hour.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 07:29:45 pm

It's difficult,BB,to glean that much information on the case.But the basics are that she went missing on the evening of December 1st.

Undocumented items,that did however include a button from her coat,were found,close to her home.Possibly indicating a struggle,with abduction resulting.

Then,shortly afterwards....probably the next couple of days following....her coat,and a shoe,were found on Highway 17.

So,the likelihood is,that her ''person'' had moved,from Walnut Creek to Santa Cruz County,in a short space of time.

Then,her body recovered,from the ocean,on December 19th.

Given that her body was missing part of a leg,and that investigating police could not recognise her....and mistook her for a woman,in her twenties [...Elaine was 17...],it does seem that she had been in the ocean,for the majority of the 18 days,from disappearance,to discovery [?].

As you suggest,the ocean's movement and salinity,has a very abrasive affect on human skin.

Naturally,one can't be certain...but it does look as if she was murdered,shortly after abduction....then,taken to a secluded coastal spot,and dumped into the sea.

With May 2001 being,when Elaine's identity was finally ascertained,it was difficult to tell,the cause of death.But strangulation is considered,to be the probable cause.

In addition,the perpetrator had likely attempted to remove her teeth,which had contributed to non-identification,in the first place.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 09:26:10 pm

If anyone can add details,to Elaine Davis' murder,it would be good to see.

If you access a map of the area,it does seem that her perpetrator,in offloading her coat and shoe,by Highway 17,at Scott Valley,would have done this,after disposing of her body,and beginning his return to the Bay Area.

Where did he put her body,in the ocean ?

I would suggest Wilder Ranch State Park,up the coast from Lighthouse Point,4 miles west.It is a popular picnic and trekking spot,during the day.

9/12/2018 09:23:16 am

My half hour of read lead us no where for Elaine Davis.
But, the Wilder Ranch State Park idea seems right.
I suppose we look for info on currents and tide directions in that area.
I was under the impression they generally go south.
Of course we should ask the opinion of a scientist.
Oceanographer?

Rubislaw 32 link

9/11/2018 10:04:23 pm

It just seems to me,that whatever Zodiac wrote,or appeared to write,in his letter to Melvin Belli,with postmark December 20th....below the surface,Zodiac may well be ''bricking it'',that investigating police,are going to be able to link him,to a murder.

That,in effect,news of the uncovering of a murder has,at least in part.motivated Zodiac to write a ''pleading'' message to Belli.

From a possible ''high'' of his [presumed] December 16th Fairfield letter....to the fearful reality of getting caught out,just three days later.

And,all this fear,for having changed tack,on his method of killing.

Yes,one could say quite rightfully....that it doesn't fit in,with the Bay Area attacks.

But,that may have been Zodiac's ''new'' intention.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/12/2018 07:52:54 am

Just extra thoughts on ''By Knife'' :

Historically,''knives'' and ''knaves'' have been seen as interchangeable,on derisory naming of persons.

The ''knife''...the blade,the cutter,the carver,the boner.

The ''knave''....the rascal,the scoundrel,the liar,the one who exposed fools who acted naively.And,as opposed to the ''knight'',who was noble.

When Zodiac wrote ''By Knife'' on Bryan's car door,it could equally have been ''By Knave'',in Zodiac's mind [?].

If Zodiac was the scribe of the ''Bleeding Knife'',it could equally have been the ''Bleedin' Knave''....and with his eight drops of blood,denoting his victims.

The ''Knave'',the ''Jack'',the ''Cutter'',the ''Knife''.

9/12/2018 10:18:28 am

The J.C. Higgins brand in 1961 was dropped off sporting and recreation goods after 1964 Sears introduced the Ted Williams brand for the same items including rim fire pistol J.C. Higgins model 80 which was the same pistol since WWII the High Standard model 101. Ted Williams nickname was "The Kid".

Just a possibility - could the Exorcist symbol be "The Kid"?

Also, another strand of pasta to throw up against the wall - I can't help but point to the original use of these Pistols was for silent kills by the OSS. in the WWII period.

Toots

9/12/2018 04:31:12 pm

Regarding the JC Higgins gun, see my post about my suspect's dad's nickname was JC.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/12/2018 12:24:49 pm

These are good thoughts,BB,since I suspect,''we'' are thinking in the right recesses,of Zodiac's mind.

For example,''The Kid'',as you suggest....but it could have been ''The Knife'',or ''The KIll''.

Nothing.or rarely anything was specific,or had a single solution.

With the Halloween Card,for example,''sorry no ciphers'' was also ''The Southern Cross'',of the Confederate flag,as well as a sarcastic apology.The back of the card was like the layout of a ''playing card'',with four suits.....four ideas on killing,that ''suited'' Zodiac.In addition,the notion of ''To Kill a Mockingbird'',with Mr.Avery,seen as ''Mr.Aviary''.....the bird who mocked Zodiac.

With Zodiac,it was visual ''impressionism''....an abstract world,where anything,wasn't exactly,as it seemed.

''Zodiac through the Looking Glass''

And,with his major crimes,and his ''collecting of slaves'',he took us to the different jurisdictions...Solano County,Vallejo,Napa County,San Fran.....and possibly now....Santa Cruz County [?].

Keeping everyone on their toes....and sometimes tripping over themselves,and arguing with each other.

The purveyor of ''Mayhem''.With attempts to ''define'' him,and pin him down,always falling short,of success.

''Close'',but not close enough.''Nearly'',but no cigar.

9/12/2018 02:34:15 pm

Rubislaw 32

Hey! Could it be "2Key"? Like the pic of 2 keys. Is it possible to have a 2 key cipher?
The History Channel had a top and a bottom to their 340 solution. But, they had no middle - while this Azgorh 340 solve has just a middle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaMP1o9F1CU
Perhaps they complete each other.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/12/2018 03:57:45 pm

Curiosity can lead us ''all over'',but I wouldn't be too inclined to spend too much time,pondering the ''Two Keys'',as appearing in the 1990 Christmas card,as xerox photo.

This,I believe,alludes to Algorithmic philosophy,in Cryptography.

The ''Public Key'' and the ''Private Key'',related to cipher encryption and cipher decryption.

Zodiac had obviously read an article about it,in a science journal,and,though he didn't fully understand it....thought it a good idea to ''telegraph'' the FBI's Cryptanalysis Unit,that this could be a way,to solve his ''340''...at that time,21 years unsolved.

Just Zodiac,showing off....again.

There is only one solution,for each of Zodiac's ciphers and cryptograms.

The ''My name is ----'' cipher,at 13 characters,is personal to Zodiac,and too short to prove solved.

The rest can be solved,including Z32,since it leans on cryptic clues,as well as Zodiac's ''short changing'' of cryptographic ones.

I know,because I have already solved them.....so I claim.

[.....chuckle,chuckle....]

Toots

9/12/2018 05:58:00 pm

A theory I have on the 2 keys. It's a bit of a stretch, but...
Z could have made or have engraved those 2 keys.
If you combine the numbers, you get a phone number that was typical of Stinson Beach prefixes during that time.
415-868-####

Rubislaw 32 link

9/12/2018 04:07:01 pm

....about to read up,on the Hearst Mansion fire,BB.

See if i can't find more inroads,into Zodiac,as an arsonist.

I suspect that Zodiac never actually killed anyone,''By Fire''.

I believe he accused William Grant,of being an Alcoholic,and an ''Arse Bandit'',but was Zodiac,himself,an Arsonist ?

A ''Fire Starter'' [?].

Toots

9/12/2018 04:33:35 pm

Also, Stinson Beach schoolhouse was arson, I believe in 1979. Was the "punish the school children" a foreshadow by Z.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/12/2018 04:40:56 pm

Thank you,Toots.....I'm going to check that schoolhouse,also.

Toots

9/12/2018 05:53:28 pm

correction, 1978

9/12/2018 04:44:53 pm

From Wikipedia
"Arson often involves someone deliberately burning their own property, or having someone else do it, to collect the insurance"

Also, to cover up other crimes.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/12/2018 05:53:17 pm

That's an interesting quote,BB.

It's probably mischievous,in one sense,to distract readers from the Bay Area terror.But,Zodiac's possible antics,post Bay Area era,should be addressed and considered.

The Joan Webster case of 1981 comes back again.And not only,that her perpetrator may have been responsible for the Great Fire,at Lynn,as a diversionary tactic.

In addition,the inference that Lenny Paradiso,was ''fitted up'' for the murder of Marie Iannuzi,and convicted of Ms.Iannuzi's murder,largely on the basis of,not only being suspected of Joan Webster's murder,but also evidence that was a drug dealer,physical abuser of women,generally.....and,that he had defrauded insurers,by torching his own boat....which would have destroyed evidence of murdering both Joan Webster and Marie Iannuzi.

Bearing in mind,that ''Zodiac'' is suspected of ''fitting up'' Paradiso,on most of the above,then one could be forgiven,for thinking that ''Lenny'' became Zodiac's ''Slave of Paradiso''.

One couldn't make this stuff up....surely not [?].

Toots

9/12/2018 06:27:59 pm

The 1st Great Fire or Lynn, MA was on Christmas night, 12/25/1868.
The 2nd Great Fire of Lynn, MA was on Thanksgiving weekend, 11/28/1981.

Typical of Z's holiday events. Detached from family, nowhere to go on holidays.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/12/2018 07:08:23 pm

Amazing,Toots,that the first Great Fire of Lynn,was on a Christmas Day.

I had no idea....and am,deadly serious,about Zodiac's possible/probable involvement,in Joan Webster's murder.

Often,it is dismissed,because Gareth Penn accused Harvard lecturer,Mr.O'Hare of this heinous crime.

But the FBI have always had their eyes,on the case,and there is compelling evidence,of a renewed assessment,by a ''DOJ''....and,for the last 3 and a half years.

Toots

9/13/2018 05:24:03 am

Rubislaw,
I need to read up on Joan Webster, didn't know about this case. I do know that my suspect moved from Marin back to the East coast in approx 1980.

My theory on Z's "name association" also involves Gareth Penn. Guess which state my suspect grew up in? Michael O'Hare got his degree from the JFK School of Gov at Harvard. Those initials are really important. Gareth Penn was really close, but had the wrong suspect.

Toots

9/16/2018 05:58:34 pm

Rubislaw,
I know my suspect played with matches as a kid.
I also know my suspect's dad's company burned to the ground in 1953 in Philadelphia, 8 alarm fire. Another fire in 1965. I couldn't make up this coincidences.

Karen_C

9/12/2018 06:41:03 pm

Well if we are looking for things "in plain sight", I suggest people look straight above the Zodiac symbol and the obscure "ZODAIK". We find the obvious words "POSH BOY" glaring at us. If not a snide reference to Detective Toschi, who had a penchant for wearing bow ties, who else could the Zodiac have been referencing? One person comes to mind and that is California native (but English educated) Robbie "Posh Boy" Fields, a young man of many talents, who was already making his presence known in the counter-culture movement of the time.

I am not of course suggesting that Robbie Fields was the Zodiac. I think he would be far too young in any case. I just wonder if the Zodiac was referencing him. Posh Boy was not very well known at that time, so this could potentially narrow down the list of possible suspects to those who knew him or worked with him in some capacity. It could have been someone who knew him closely enough to know him by that nickname. I believe Posh Boy also worked as a journalist, but his main interests were in the counterculture and the music scene.

Toots

9/13/2018 05:28:44 am

Karen C,
This "posh boy" is really helpful, thanks! I believe Z was referring to himself, having grown up in a family with money, but later became estranged from his family.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/13/2018 06:45:04 am

Yes,I agree with you,Toots,that Penn had the wrong suspect,and I am sure that the FBI agree,too.

Lenny Paradiso's trial for the murder of Marie Iannuzi,was on reflection,shameful,and a disgraceful miscarriage of justice.

Some of the ''evidence'' included ''prisoner's talk'',by some hoping for more lenient sentences,women of ''ill repute'',hoping for some of George Webster's reward money.....and even,by ''virtue'' of Paradiso's dealing of marijuana,had defrauded the IRS,out of income tax revenue.

Paradiso my not have been,a particularly likeable individual....but it does seem,that he was figuratively ''hung,drawn and quartered'',on the basis of,mere speculation that,he was responsible for the disappearance of Joan Webster,a ''High Society Princess''.

Paradiso spent the remaining 28 years of his life,behind bars,and protesting his innocence,to the end.

Ricardo Gomez and I,document the bones of the case,in the ''Bearded Man'' thread,at zodiackillermystery.freeforums,net

For a ''potted'' read,perhaps [?].

Sigmund

9/13/2018 06:03:34 am

We can but guess. Serial killers are odd in that they can be the most normal and average of people. They are frequently the people who nobody would have ever considered to be a serial killer. So really, the Zodiac could have been just about anybody. About all we know for sure is he was male within a certain age group, but even the descriptions are conflicting. His correspondence is rather too vague to be entirely meaningful. In one place he speaks of hunting his victims in the woods and tying people to ant hills. In another place he is waxing lyrical with lines from an opera. Truth is, without making things up, we really don't know anything about him. Of course that never stops people from believing they understand him.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/22/2018 08:00:39 am

Hi Richard.

It just occurred to me,and granted I have a thing about ''Hunter's Point''.

Judging by your calculations, 240 degrees would be ''slap'' over that part of the SF headland.

240 degrees,is equivalent to ''8 o'clock''.

Another ''8'',to add to the 8 drops of blood,the ''8-ball'' symbol.....and the mystery of the missing 8th victim [?].

Richard

9/22/2018 03:18:51 pm

That is correct Rubislaw, I covered Hunters Point in three of my earlier articles. It is also around the 8 mark, by Hunters Point Shipyard.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/22/2018 04:10:02 pm

Thanks Richard....the ''target'' is freehand,and couldn't be more ''8 o'clock'',really [?].

I have a little more on Elaine Davis....her second shoe was found at Alamo.Also,she was religious,never dated,never touched alcohol,and a straight ''A'' student...but had a soft spot for a cigarette.The feeling is,that she went out on to the porch,for a smoke,putting her coat on,since it was chilly....then got mugged.

Her parents were out,for only 45 minutes.

Anyway,on the hunt for more ''8 symbolism''...may go back to the Day-by-Day forecasts,also.

Thanks

Richard

9/22/2018 04:21:52 pm

The 8 o clock X mark on the Bus Bomb crosshairs when rotated align with the murder sites at LHR and BRS, when rotated. The murder sites at PH ( 6 o clock) and LB (9 o clock) also match up.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/280364.gif?725

http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/bomb5_orig.gif

Karen_C

9/22/2018 04:55:42 pm

Rubislaw, look at it this way. You could be completely right or you could be completely wrong. I like those odds!

Toots

9/22/2018 09:55:59 am

Rubislaw,
Hunter's Point.
Also, one of the Hunter's at LHR, last name = the last name of my suspect.
Coincidence?

Rubislaw 32 link

9/22/2018 11:08:52 am

That's an interesting coincidence,Toots.

So many cryptic clues,about where Zodiac planted his bomb.Some a bit ''red herring'',like the ''radians and inches'' one....which nevertheless,are two units of measurement,used to calculate a ship's extent of stability,in the water.

My respects to those that make efforts,to solve the ciphers.The correct solution can be found at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net

In the cipher section,with thread entitled simply ''Z32''.

Naturally,I would claim this [!].

There is so much more to argue about,than a single cipher....but,with this particular cipher,Zodiac was a ''Cheeky Monkey''.Yes,that ''Mag N'' is a ''right royal pain in the a*s''.

Magum,Magnificent,Magnanimity....could even be ''Magna Carta'',with both a law and map link [?].

The ''bomb'' anyway,was just a ruse.....and the solution to ''Z32'',is likely to be ''comedic'',also.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/22/2018 05:37:53 pm

Thanks for the encouragement,Richard and Karen.

I'll just try to cover all bases,on this ''8th victim'' angle.

About 36 hours,after Elaine Davis' body recovered,Melvin Belli's housekeeper receives the Belli letter.Which mentioned ''9th victim'' twice [!].

Just hope LE don't forget about her.

On a personal level,it just has ''too many'' similarities with ''The Templeton Woods murders''

It's ''Zodiac and his motorcar'' everytime...or so it seems.

Karen_C

9/22/2018 07:19:15 pm

The Templeton Woods case is interesting from what I've read online. I know very little about it. Seems the prime suspect is Angus Sinclair, who was dubbed "The World's End killer". Committed his first murder at the age of 16 and went on to carry out an horrific spate of sexual offenses and murders. To look at him I doubt if few would have ever suspected him of being a cold-blooded killer, although his stare is rather cold and distant. Otherwise he just looks so very ordinary, perhaps even a bit Zodiac-ish, re the Stine sketch.

Toots

9/22/2018 07:48:09 pm

Interesting that my suspect's ex-wife was from Glasgow, Scotland.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/22/2018 08:22:32 pm

Interested that you know something of the Templeton Woods murders,Karen.

A bit of a specialist subject,for me,having spent three years on Carol Lannen's murder,alone.....and know a fair bit about Elizabeth McCabe's.

Carol was a popular ''good time girl'' and prostitute.

Elizabeth a nursery nurse,just opening her eyes to adult nightlife,and men.

Both forced to strip naked,wrists and ankles bound....then garotted.

Angus Sinclair was found guilty of ''The World's End Murders'',the second time around.....the first serial killer,in history,to be subjected to a new ruling on ''Double Jeopardy''.

The police have subsequently admitted that,they hold no interest in Sinclair,for the Templeton Woods murders.

Carol and Elizabeth's murders have the Zodiac's ''muddy paws'' all over them,in my opinion.

For another time.

Toots

9/22/2018 07:39:00 pm

Does anyone know what the relationship was with Frank Gasser and Robert Connelly, the hunters from LHR? Were they related, co-workers? A 27 yr old and a 69 yr old out hunting together at night? Seems strange. Are there any photos of them?

Rubislaw 32 link

9/22/2018 08:04:32 pm

Though stand to be corrected,Toots,I think those two were just doing a spot of night fishing,or similar,and checked out OK.

Toots

9/23/2018 07:25:46 am

I don't believe Gasser & Connelly were Z. I believe Z researched Connelly, then followed him and knew. Z got a kick out of the police interviewing someone with his last name. So close, yet so far away. I read the hunters were racoon hunting and were asked to bring their firearms back to police for checking. I still question what 2 men 40 yrs apart were doing together at 11pm hunting? Did Z also target them for un-catholic reasons?

Rubislaw 32 link

9/23/2018 08:18:07 am

Interesting ideas,Toots,and who is to say that this is not possible.

I see Gasser and Connelly as ''the experienced one'' and ''the apprentice''...but beyond that,it's difficult to tell.

I have Zodiac down for palming off blame on Arthur Leigh Allen,in both the July 19th 1978 letter,and the 1988 New Canaan letters.

And,it seems that Zodiac was regularly attempting to pass blame on William Grant.

But this was in writing....that we can feel confident,to know about.

The ''physical'' element,as you suggest,is certainly worth considering.

Karen_C

9/22/2018 08:59:40 pm

Despite his terrifying ordeal, I do often wonder why Bryan Hartnell could never be more specific about that accent he heard. Surely a Scottish accent would be obvious to just about everyone. America was perhaps a bit insulated from the rest of the world back then, but even so, one would expect a Scottish accent would have been about as recognizable as Kellogg's Pop Tarts.

Rubislaw 32 link

9/22/2018 09:27:42 pm

Simply on what I perceive,but am aware of certain investigations,or ''assessments'',the Zodiac has or is being considered as a travelled killer,beyond the USA,not least California.

But the likelihood is,and has always has been,that he is an American.

Though one that spoke English,with a relatively neutral accent,and was,almost definitely,an Anglophile.

''The first active trans-Atlantic serial killer ?''

Maybe.

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THE 32 SYMBOL CODE- HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT

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