ZODIAC CIPHERS
Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
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PRESIDIO HEIGHTS- INSIDE THE TAXICAB

3/14/2018

 
Picture
"At this time, Lindsey went downstairs to get a better look at what was happening, while one of the kids upstairs called the police. Downstairs, the lights were off, so Lindsey knew he could not be seen from the outside. He got close to the window and watched his actions. He was shortly joined by Rebecca. They both watched and observed in silence as Zodiac pushed the driver to an upright position behind the steering wheel, exited the car and walked around the rear of the car and opened the driver's door. Stine had fallen over onto the seat and Zodiac pulled him back up into the seated position and had some difficulty keeping him upright. Once upright, he was seen to have a rag, or something like a handkerchief and began to wipe down the door area and leaning over the driver, part of the dashboard. When he was finished, Zodiac calmly walked to Cherry St. and walked north".

This is a brief section from the account of the three teenagers who observed the subject in the taxicab at Presidio Heights on October 11th 1969. But why was the Zodiac Killer spending valuable time attempting to hoist Paul Stine into an upright position behind the steering wheel, when he should have been making good his escape? If the Zodiac had been aware of the three teenage eyewitnesses, it seems unlikely he would have spent an unnecessary period of time tearing a piece of shirt, then compounding the situation by trying to maneuver Paul Stine into an upright position, before casually walking north on Cherry Street and taking no evasive action upon seeing the approach of Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms' patrol car. But what was the purpose of raising Paul Stine, who was covered in blood, into a more visible position to the casual passerby? It would seem the taxicab driver out of view would be the better option in delaying his discovery and any resulting search. Here is one possibility.
 
After Paul Stine had been shot - and either slumped or was pulled into a lying position - the Zodiac Killer had to gain access to the back of the taxicab driver's shirt. The Zodiac Killer, having entered the right front passenger seat, likely gripped the jacket of the victim and pulled him towards and to the right, with Stine face down in the passenger side floorboard. This is where the largest pooling of blood was located and where responding officer Armond Pelissetti ultimately discovered the stricken taxicab driver.
It is evident that the jacket of the victim has been pulled upwards - an obvious necessity to gain access to the rear of Stine's shirt and tear a portion of the fabric. But in maneuvering the body into this position, the jacket had bunched up and may have become wedged between the victim and passenger seat. Once the Zodiac had acquired the shirt piece, he may have wanted to conceal this fact by pulling the jacket back down over the victim. However, there is one big problem - he cannot easily achieve this with the jacket trapped between seat and victim. The Zodiac Killer attempted to elevate the victim upwards to free the jacket and pull it back down over the shirt, but from the passenger side, with dead weight, achieving the leverage is extremely difficult - and Stine inevitably fell back. The Zodiac Killer exited the vehicle, traveled around the taxicab and opened the driver side door - and with his right hand braced on the dividing panel (leaving the blooded fingerprint) attempted to haul Stine back into an upright position, to where he can now release his right hand in order to pull the jacket down over Stine's exposed back - but he ultimately failed. The teenagers may have mistaken the killer simply attempting to elevate the victim, as trying to prop him back behind the steering wheel. This cannot be proven as the objective of the killer, but it could be argued that the only function of altering the position of Paul Stine inside the taxicab after the fact, was to alter the visible scene viewed by responding investigators.​

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The police report stated "R/Os immediately checked the interior of the cab and found the victim to be slumped over the front seat with his upper torso in the passenger side, head resting on the floorboard". Armond Pelissetti did not interfere with the crime scene.

​The next portion of the police report is crucial: "
P.E.H. ambulance #82 responded, steward Dousette, victim was examined and pronounced dead at 10:10 pm." Later Toschi and Armstrong would arrive: "A check with the Yellow Cab Co. revealed the victim arrived at work at approximately 8:45 pm and had only one fare prior, that being from Pier 64 to the Air Terminal. Sgt. Falk responded in G-10. Homicide inspectors Armstrong and Toschi responded and took charge. G-40, Lt. Kiel also responded". But by the time Inspectors Toschi and Armstrong had arrived, the victim had been pulled from the floorboard of the passenger side into the position seen in the crime scene photographs. This was undertaken by responding medical personnel to determine the status of Paul Stine (likely to check for vital signs), before pronouncing him deceased at 10.10 pm.
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With Paul Stine in this position it would have been impossible for Dave Toschi and Bill Armstrong to notice a section of the taxicab driver's shirt had been removed. The police report continued "The coroner responded, Deputy Schultz and Kindred and took charge of the necessary photographs of the preserved scene." The crime scene had not strictly been preserved, because the body had been moved prior to Toschi and Armstrong arriving. Furthermore, the "crime lab's initial investigation showed that the victim was devoid of any U.S. Currency, nor did he have the possession of a wallet; the ignition keys for the cab were also missing". But no mention of any missing shirt.

Once the police had finished their assessment, the victim was taken away from the crime scene. At what point in the investigation did they become aware of the missing shirt piece? Was it the Zodiac Killer's intention to somehow delay its discovery, so his declaration in the October 13th 1969 letter had the maximum impact and shock value, upstaging the police, who believed this crime was nothing more than a routine robbery and taxicab murder at this point. The whole reason behind his attempted crime scene manipulation.

According to Robert Graysmith "Stine's body was the first to be autopsied that morning, a little after 9:30 am. Before the blood and grime are removed, close-up photos are made of the body fully clothed, under the guidance of the pathologist. Stine's blood-stained clothing had been removed, an identification tag wire put on each article, and placed under a drying lamp. When his clothes had dried completely, they were laid flat, with butcher paper between each article to avoid the possibility of any sort of transfer. The clothing was listed on a clothing slip and turned into the property clerk's office to be safeguarded for future lab tests". So, at what point did investigators learn of the missing shirt piece - before Zodiac mailed the October 13th 1969 letter, or afterwards.     


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On October 14th 1969, the  Zodiac Killer's letter arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle. Robert Graysmith outlined the reaction of investigators: "Toschi saw the fabric and remembered it from Saturday night. "Jesus Christ" he said. "This looks like Stine's shirt Bill, I think this is Stine's shirt." Armstrong stated "We're going to bring this shirt down to the coroner's office. Stine's clothing is being held there". ​On the main floor annex, Toschi and Armstrong saw the coroner, Dr Henry Turkel, who got all of Stine's clothing out of the property clerk's office. They went back upstairs and told Lee that the cloth enclosed with the letter had come from the left lower portion of Stine's shirt". It appears from the wording above that David Toschi and Bill Armstrong only checked on Paul Stine's shirt at the coroner's office to see if a piece was missing after receiving the Zodiac letter. Therefore, it seems that investigators were unaware of the torn shirt piece of Paul Stine at the point it was received by the Chronicle. Was this the intention of Zodiac when attempting to maneuver Paul Stine in the taxicab?

On October 12th 1969, the San Francisco Chronicle ran an article on the murder, entitled  'Robbery Victim' - "A Yellow Cab driver was found shot to death in his cab last night, the victim of an apparent robbery attempt in Presidio Heights". On October 13th 1969 the police issued a wanted poster, lumping this crime in with other taxicab robberies, with the poster carrying the message "Wanted for murder and robberies of cab drivers. Suspect takes cab in downtown area at 9:30 pm and sits in front seat with driver. Tells driver destination is Washington and Laurel area or area near park or Presidio. Upon reaching destination, suspect orders driver to continue on at gunpoint into or near park where he perpetrates robbery".
 
The police still appeared to consider this a simple matter of robbery, with the suspect possibly having taken a small amount of cash, the driver's wallet and the keys to the taxicab. But what thief would take the time to carefully tear a rectangular portion of the victim's shirt and remove it from the crime scene? This fact alone, should have told investigators they were not dealing with the routine robbery of a taxicab driver and thereby associating it with other robberies committed in recent weeks. The removal of the shirt piece should have set this crime apart, had they been aware that a piece was missing. Is this what the Zodiac Killer had envisioned when he mailed the October 13th 1969 letter, gaining the element of surprise and getting one over on the police? Or did the police know all along that a section of shirt was missing - with the removal of the shirt piece being deliberately withheld from publication as to verify any future contact by the killer? But why label it as a routine robbery to both the press and public alike, when it was anything but. 

Shawn
3/14/2018 07:02:02 am

I believe the coroner would have notice the shirt piece missing the next morning and maybe noted it. I do not think Zodiac was trying to get one over on the police.

I think he wanted to put a slam dunk exclamation mark on his murderous activities (before going undercover as a killer) by sending undeniable evidence the letter writer known as Zodiac and the killer were the same person. He sent the evidence in the three different letters which allowed writing experts definitive proof of his writing style in three different letters.

He talked about killing school children in the Stine Letter. I wonder if he notice the teenagers staring down at him during his time around the cab.

Tom Voigt suggests the Stine Letter was written in advance and was to be mailed at the mail box at Washington and Cherry he said it was there back in 1969. (along with police telephone box) As seen at the beginning of this 2014 Zodiac Killer Task force meeting in San Franciso. Below the youtube video is a link to a static google picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeuNln94T-s

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Washington+St+%26+Cherry+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94118/@37.7886918,-122.4571922,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sA9uVT86G_v3kSW280_7-JA!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x808587301b6b6cc5:0x8ad56b1d3e042f1

monarch link
3/14/2018 07:14:53 am

My guess is they noticed the shirt piece missing but did not think it was related to the crime, I think they thought the shirt was in that condition when Stine put it on.

Who would jump to the conclusion that a common mugger would cut off a piece of his shirt tail ?

Rubislaw 32 link
3/14/2018 02:08:12 pm

I agree with you,monarch.The shirt just didn't produce alarm bells,in itself.

Paul Stine's murder was ''high profile'',from the start.A ''servant'' of the public,and the city.His murder was not good ''public relations'' for the tourists [!].

Murdered on a Saturday evening,it became apparent by Tuesday afternoon,that his probable perpetrator,was Zodiac.

Three days ain't so long,before the importance of Stine's murder,was cranked up,another notch.

Drew
3/14/2018 08:25:50 am

It was important that they get the sketch out to the public as soon as possible so that would have been the obvious plan once they secured the witnesses and it would have required a lot of confidence in the relevance of the discovered torn shirt to change that plan.

While it seems odd that they could miss such a detail during examination I agree that the police allowing the article to run about a killer of multiple cab drivers suggests that they were following the reasonable hunch that the string of cabbie murders were related (and in an opportunistic sense it may have been) and that they were not yet aware of what kind of animal they were dealing with. If they noticed the substantial piece of missing shirt that should have indicated that this crime was motivated by more than robbery but they still would have wanted the sketch released.

I wonder when they realized that Paul Stine wore glasses. Did they have photo ID in taxi cabs back then or would they have had to wait for a photograph? Glasses were not listed in the released report (but of course they didn't list every item of Stine's clothing either) and If they didn't know he had glasses they would not know that they were not recovered. Man, it doesn't take me long to get off topic! Anyways, interesting article. Thanks Richard

Connolly
3/14/2018 01:08:12 pm

I wonder when they are going to realize that this is not all the works of an individual loon, and therefore is a conspiracy? Is the idea of a group of two or more just too crazy? The signs and clues of collusion are everywhere in this disconnected convoluted involution. There are many connections to secret groups. The signs in the ciphers are connecting to Booze Allen. The killer of Darlene knew her name - showing she was marked for the hit. The costume at LB bore a striking resemblance to the Knights Hospitallers another secret organization but not nessisarily this one. Possible drug gang thing being established with the LHR massacre. Paul Stine was killed next to the home of Robert J. Hunter Jr. who was a member of the Bohemian Grove and his bank were he worked was hit by the SLA. The killings were on a Dali day ect...The CIA was proven to have a secret black operation at that time that used cult like tactics to brain wash broken military men into the role of being a killer. Youtube - Programed to kill. There are tons of things crying out CONSPIRACY! Or, am I just one lone voice crying in the wilderness!

Greg
3/14/2018 10:41:27 pm

Here's a question I considered while reading the article: had Fouke and Zelms arrested Stine's shooter on the street that night, at what point, if at all, does the SFPD realize they have caught the individual whose been writing to the media calling himself "Zodiac"? Does the killer volunteer he is Zodiac? Is it something that's uncovered during subsequent interviews and investigations prior to his court trial?
Then again, it's entirely possible the connection never gets made that this guy is Zodiac. In fact, it could even be argued, this scenario is exactly what might have happened during one of his next murders; he might have been caught, convicted and put away without coming forward he was Zodiac and no one picking up on the fact, either. Would obviously help in explaining why he seemed to stop and eventually disappear.

Richard
3/14/2018 11:57:03 pm

Agree entirely Greg- I believe Zodiac may very well have been arrested in 1971 or 1974 for murder and obviously kept quiet about his exploits.
He then died in prison. How many murder documentaries do you watch where the perpetrator of a cold case has already been banged up for a subsequent crime.

BB
4/4/2018 04:39:48 pm

What do you infer is the probable religion which the
Zodiac was brought up in?

Rubislaw 32 link
3/15/2018 04:54:35 am

Yes indeed,Richard and Greg.

But the point needs to be stressed about the forensics,that was gleaned from Stine's crime scene.

We are aware that prints were found....but whose were they,and do they count for anything,related to that,and other crimes,believed to have been committed by the single individual,known as the Zodiac.

Murders...correspondences...and relating forensics....that's where ''we'',as amateurs,are so disadvantaged.

Eric
3/15/2018 08:46:41 am

The prints found on the divding panel of the cab have to be from Z. Just like you said, who else could they be from? Maybe someone from LE accidentally got them on the door during investigation of the crime scene? Z stated he didn’t leave prints behind, could his model glue worn off or did he forget to put it on? Then the question comes to mind, why not just use the gloves if they were indeed Zodiac’s.

BB
4/3/2018 04:42:48 pm

Robert Francis "Bobby" Kennedy (November 20, 1925 – June 6, 1968)
John Fitzgerald "Jack" Kennedy (May 29, 1917 – November 22, 1963)
Martin Luther King Jr. (January 15, 1929 – April 4, 1968)

All were murdered on Dali days

According to Wikipedia
COINTELPRO was a series of covert, and at times illegal, projects conducted by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting domestic political organizations. FBI records show that COINTELPRO resources targeted groups and individuals that the FBI deemed subversive, including the Communist Party USA, anti-Vietnam War organizers, activists of the civil rights movement or Black Power movement (e.g., Martin Luther King Jr. and the Black Panther Party), feminist organizations, independence movements (such as Puerto Rican independence groups like the Young Lords), Black-owned bookstores, and a variety of organizations that were part of the broader New Left.

I think Doctor MLK Jr. was murdered on April four 1968 by rouges in the government.

J. Edgar Hoover considered him a radical and made him an object of the FBI's COINTELPRO which tried to get MLK Jr. to commit suicide.

There is the Dali day signature of 4/4 being the murderers signature day same as Zodiac.
There are many commonalities with the smear campaign of liberal causes such as the shutting down of the Good Times Newspaper by the FBI.They made accusations that the paper's editor Giakowski was the Zodiac. Why - because the Good Times hippie commune was trying to stop the war. The Gulf of Ton-kin was a black project false flag operation. Proof the war was a crime. The Pentagon Papers were released in 1971 by RAND employee Daniel Elsberg. The Gulf of Ton-kin incident was on a Dali day 8/2/64 but no Americans were harmed. Just innocent Vietnamese were. 3 were killed and 6 were injured.

Former FBI Agent Robert Mahue introduced the CIA to the Mob. In mob connection shadow government parlance the terms "the commission" or the "committee" are used when referring to the coordinating of mafia associates (which was first and for-most boss Sam Giancanna) with any government intelligence. But, since the black budget of these secret groups is off the books we can only speculate as to who exactly was involved. The members of these groups are secret too. JFK was killed by this Mob/CIA group.He called for the secret organization to be "scattered to the winds".His last speech was about the dangers of these groups.
The Plumbers were all mob'd up CIA guys who perpetrated "Dirty Tricks" against the Lib's to get right-wingers elected. CIA Howard Hunt worked for Bush when he had an office in the Nixon WH. Watergate was all CREEP. Peace loving liberal hippies were their number one enemy according to former FBI man G. Gordon Liddy. And, how they combated them was through establishing guilt by association smear campaigns. The Charles Manson's had long hair therefore hippies are evil. The Hells Angels look like them therefor hippies are evil. Therefor be scared of hippies and vote for right wingers and there causes.
Remember at this time circa 1969 the hippie was the symbol of left ideal free American.
The hippies are evil according to right winger Hoover. To him the peace protesters had to be stopped. He wished hippies would go die in Vietnam the way they were supposed to.
Hoover was the ultimate hypocrite - gay but against the Gays. In the Mob but he was the top cop in America. His nick name was the "Bulldog" but he wore womens panties.

Zodiac was the perfect boogie man for their causes, like we need to allow for police brutality, which was one of the biggest social causes of the day. Their answer was the hero introduced in the movie "Dirty Harry". The Movie sold tons of guns as the 44 magnum was shown off. Clint Eastwood was the biggest movie star in the world. They got him to portray the tough-on crime cop that you supposedly need. The Scorpio was representing Zodiac he had long hair - hippies are evil, be scared, you should vote-in a tough on crime right-winger. Scorpio paid a criminal to inflict some police brutality on him to get this good cop Harry smeared as a dirty cop.I think they (this mob fused group) terrorized left leaning San Fransisco to get voters to think they need to vote for more cops, brutal with bigger guns, to stop the Zodiac. But guns aren't the answer. The ultimate weapon of all time is the pen. Its' ammo is the truth.

BB
4/3/2018 06:16:16 pm

SPOOKY SCIENTOLOGY RITUALS bull baiting scientology training routine orientation TRO let the brain washing begin.
I just watched this video on you tube
TRO was this what Pam told us about?

Rubislaw 32 link
3/15/2018 08:01:34 am

Just as a possible interest to anyone,the BBC recently aired a series of ''fly on the wall'' programs about public criminologists and prosecutors,who meet on a regular basis,to discuss ''high profile'' cases.

To ascertain,where they are,in relation to the likelihood,or otherwise,of a potential prosecution going ahead.And,if ''otherwise'',then assessing what extra information they would require,for further consideration.

Effectively,what is going on ''behind closed doors'',at these judiciary offices,in between actual processing of any new case information,incoming.

Given certain cases,and at certain times,attaining ''enhanced'' status,through political pressures,for example,these judicial ''bodies'' nevertheless,have to keep their composure,and enact their responsibilities,as they have traditionally done,and according to their professional creeds.

The questions will always be...if they have enough information to construct a prosecution case....and if that prosecution case represents a justifiable financial burden on public monies.

BB
4/5/2018 04:06:07 pm

Ozwald was a spook

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxYGe-95FAk

BB
3/16/2018 12:25:43 pm

Anton Szandor LaVey
Was LaVey CIA?
He was a cultleader, and
lived near Washington and Cherry
He was obsessed with numerology
the dates of the kills lined up nicely with the natural calendar
the natural realm was the devils world, the animals world
the realm of the Zodiac (Zoo/animal cycle)
tons of satanic symbolism in this case
Was Anton's job in part to provide us a boogie man?
His doctrine did not make sense proving he was a fraud.
Witch craft has nothing to do with devil worship.
Ask any Wiccan - The association with satanism is done
by the Christian fundamentalists.
He was like a CIA handler. The CIA, Mob, and FBI are one.
The CIA does not divulge who is an operator in the agency
They used MKULTRA and Sam Giancana to kill JFK & RFK
The Zodiac was covered for by unseen powers
The leader of the FBI did not acknowledge the
existence of the Mob. That is proof of collusion.
The lord high executioner was Albert Anastasia.
The true church ritual is carried out though the Mikado
The priests of Satan pretend to be actors and perfom
their service metaphorically right in plain site.
Anastasia was literally the murderer most high.
while the Zodiac was in a sense playing like an actor.
The ruling class through murder Inc. killed thousands
literally taking out contracts allowed them to get away with
murder for money. Logical deduction - Zodiac was Mob'd up.
Yes I realize this is all supposedly history.
And we are told by our government that these groups no longer exist.
But, if that were the case then why are they still covering up
the Zodiac.

Drew
3/16/2018 01:13:17 pm

Is this a Blind Bat attack? If so, awesome! If not, please disregard this insane question.

BB
3/16/2018 04:16:31 pm

Ha! my handle is blue belly. I just get lazy.sorry about that.
you asked about a 61 Ambassador by Rambler
It was a bad ass with 275 hp. Though you could blend in with the looks of a family car when driving one. It had the best muffler going but was quiet inside and out. The car of choice for hit men at that time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Classic-Car-AD-RAMBLER-Ambassador-V-8-Sedan-and-red-Station-Wagon-083015/401494494206?

For your well planned hit the weapon of choice for a hundred reasons is the .22 cali - If you do a quick ammo study on Google you can verify this for yourself.
With the .22 there is no need for a silencer. Idiot know nothings think you have to have large cali to kill. But, people in the know - know that even the most proficient killing machine on the planet a marine with an M-16 carried essentially a 22 caliber.
- Robert McNamara perfected the M-16 which is essentially a high powered .22 In the beginning of the Vietnam war, testing was done in the real time and people died to bring him this data.
This all is to say that a hole the size of a pea is just as effective as a
baseball sized hole. Dead is dead. There are many kinds of 22's but the two very basic are the low powered and the high powered.
The tests were carried out and mainly showed the grunts were more apt to fire their weapons when they were not hurt by the noise and the recoil. And it showed that the weight of the M-16 played a factor in the equation as well since it was so light the grunts thought it to be more toy like. And as a result Marines were more likely to shoot. At any rate the #1 reason for choosing the weapons low powered 22 for hit men or high powered for Marines is a cost effective one. The basic 22 cal is the cheapest and is a big concern for hit men. It is very difficult to throw away a thousand dollars as most weapons exceed. And, since that is the first step a hit man takes in the aftermath of a hit disposing of the weapon, it's got to be cheap.
Marines and all military use a .223 caliber. M-16. The cost here is saved in weight of transport as this is how we won the cold war. Efficiency. Peace.
PS I was a jar-head back in the day.

Drew
3/16/2018 05:23:12 pm

Interesting stuff Blue Belly and an excellent name!

Rubislaw 32 link
3/19/2018 12:03:39 pm

Hey BB....something that might interest you....and as,perhaps a novelty.

The solution to Zodiac's ''408'',laid out in grid fashion,as with the cipher,itself....and as solved by the ''concerned citizen'',displays the following word,down the central column :

BELLY

Now,there is a chance that this could be a coincidence.But,I am persuaded that ''BELLY'' is intentional.Since Zodiac,I maintain,formed a ''13'' character message,on the central column,of his solution to ''340'' :

COON U U DID UCLA [...an accusation directed at Claude Hubert..].

The implication,I would suggest,is that Zodiac already had his eyes on ''the uses'' of Melvin Belli... and as early as July 1969....though not daring to actually write to him,until another five months had elapsed.

BB
3/19/2018 03:42:23 pm

TRO

https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Temporary+Restraining+Order

Is this what Pam was talking about was written above her door?

Rubislaw 32 link
3/19/2018 04:44:41 pm

It could be.

Realistically,we are looking at either ''Temporary Restraining Order'',or ''Time Ran Out''.

We know that Pam claims a number of threats,of various kinds,over the years.

Up to recent years,she campaigned hard for justice for her sister.

Unfortunately,that sort of exposure,can attract ''all sorts'' [?].

Rubislaw 32 link
3/19/2018 07:41:22 pm

Just as an extension of ''BELLY'' down the central column,of the ''Z408'',we are looking at : ''MR ERTT BELLY''

One of Melvin Belli's favourite quotes,in self-deprecation,was :

''I am not an Ambulance Chaser - I usually get there before the ambulance.''.

Now,''ERTT'' is known to stand for ''Emergency Response Technical Training''.This is the knowledge that hospital or community sponsored medical staff require,for local emergencies....which involves the use of ambulances.

Is it possible that ''MR ERTT BELLY'' was a sarcastic reference to Melvin Belli ?

The celebrity lawyer,that Zodiac,perhaps reluctantly realised,he might need,in the future [?].

Rubislaw 32 link
3/20/2018 02:26:43 am

This really is looking promising....

''ERTT'' does stand for ''Emergency Response Technical Training''.

It can encompass firefighting and responses to chemical warfare and spillage,also.

We can even extend that central column to :''I'M MR ERTT BELLY''.

Even greater sarcasm,by stating Belli,as himself [Zodiac].

And,as with the central column in the ''340'' [ COON U,U DID UCLA ],13 characters,in length.

[.....thanks for the applause...[!]....].

BB
3/20/2018 11:38:48 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw1SzgxO3q0

here Belli between 33 min and 36 he talks about when the dirty righty's use the term Belly to do their thing - sabotage - in this particular case they use adhominimal rhetoric to smear.

Rubislaw 32 link
3/20/2018 01:26:31 pm

Fascinating to hear Belli speak,BB.

In that sound footage,he alludes to his experience in Dallas,representing Jack Ruby....whom the Texans called ''that Commi boy''.With Belli,himself,being called ''that Jewish boy'',Belli knew he didn't stand a chance of giving Ruby,a fair defence.

Probably,more to the point about ''The Deep South'',from Belli's perspective was what he considered a ''hypocritical'' attitude to segregation.Bringing races together,was just dressed up,so that business could continue,as normal.

So,indeed a ''right wing thing'' going on.

In the ''340'',I have Zodiac referring to,in effect, ''COINTELPRO''.An organisation that was really the tool of J.Edgar Hoover,in order to counter subversive elements,such as ''Black Power''.And,I maintain,that Zodiac,with reference to Herb Caen,names that organisation,in general terms,as ''Neo Fascist Cops'',

The question really seems to be,if a ''Phenomenon'' that represented right wing elements,became the creation of them...which they called ''Zodiac''.

Or,that a person,who used terror,for personal gain....and called himself ''Zodiac''.....''bought in'' to many ''tools'',such as Church of Satan,Black Power,Right wing police,Freemasonary,etc.

The whole notion and spectrum of ''Secret Societies'' to assist him in the spreading of fear.

BB
3/20/2018 02:43:02 pm

YES!

For that you make me feel like I'm not alone at this.

Starring into the abyss. It is a scary thing.

OPERATION Paper Clip brought all these Nazis here to this area.

And, they did a lot more than lie about their experimental aircraft.

Cover stories about UFO's. They have pits dug out in the desert.

They have covered over a lot more than just the Zodiac.

The USAF AND THE CIA origin was 9/18/1947

William Blatty (13symbols) was a black operator for both

He worked in the Psychological Warfare Division

His movie the Exocist was edited at 666 Park Avenue

Rubislaw 32 link
3/20/2018 03:32:41 pm

Some interesting references,BB.

In a way,they give an insight into the ''unseen government'' that ''lurked'' behind a society,looking optimistically to the future,after WW2.

Belli's views on the Jack Ruby trial were ''sobering''.It has often been reported that Belli made a ''pigs ear'' of his defence of Ruby.....and ran out of Texas,in judicial disgrace.But that seems,far from the truth [?].

Belli maintains that he had always come,with a mitigating ''epilepsy'' plea for Ruby.But whenever he brought this up,in Ruby's trial,the judge read a comic [!],and none of Belli's pertinent defence statements,ended up transcribed,in the trial records.

Extraordinary.

BB
3/20/2018 04:09:14 pm

Have you seen the document that shows how Richard Nixon got Ruby off of a prior crime. Prescott Bush hired Nixon to run his dirty tricks campaign then Poppy Bush took over from Nixon leading the plumbers (saboteurs). One member G. Gordon Liddy bragged about
leaving bus loads of hippies stranded in the middle of the Sonoran desert. And, Ruby was murdered by an injection he was given.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NlJQJUUqR4&list=PLu7xSE3POhUy5-TVprf9bHuA8QwR8tGv3

Rubislaw 32 link
3/21/2018 09:09:04 am

Yes,some truly strange characters,from that era.

Perhaps,never a surprise that Ruby was ''bumped off'',when some feared what he might have say [?].

Watergate,if anything for the public,at large,exposed the sort of people working for the ''figureheads''.

They seemed to have little humanity....professional psychopaths,if you will.

When the dust had settled,Gordon Liddy created a school for training mercenaries.....''Private Army for hire'' [!].

BB
3/24/2018 05:19:34 pm

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/darlene-ferrin-and-the-unknown-man-t5653.html

Zuspect has on boots. And looks in control with legs spread out stance. Is this Phillips 1966?

Rubislaw 32 link
3/25/2018 01:46:15 am

That picture has been doing the rounds,for some time,BB.

Those that claim that they either knew,or knew of Jim Phillips,tend to claim that it does depict Phillips.

Of anyone that L.E. ran a fine tooth comb through,with regard to Darlene's murder,alone,I think it was Phillips.

So,most unlikely to have been the perpetrator [?].

L.E. get knocked from all sides,in the case....simply because it remains unsolved.

There is probably much that they have got right [?].

This recent ''gossip'' over 2002 forensics not counting anymore,is a case in point.And,only to suit those,whose favoured suspect was officially eliminated.

If there is one physical characteristic that seems to ''defeat'' everyone,it is ''height'' [?].

Zodiac,anything from 5ft 7in to 6ft 4in [!].

I think that we are generally agreed that he was ''burly'',and prone to overweight [?].And probably,''wide of face''.

Connolly
3/25/2018 05:25:08 pm

http://santamariatimes.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/goleta-murders-tied-to-unknown-serial-killer/article_9c332d7e-77a3-11e0-bc2d-001cc4c002e0.html

What is your take on the Goleta murders?

Rubislaw 32 link
3/26/2018 05:38:08 am

If on the right page of the Hymn sheet,Connolly.....we are talking ''East Area Rapist'',from the Sacramento vicinity,in the 70's.....who then possibly became the ''Original Night Stalker'',from Southern California,in 80's.

This man,or men,do not persuaded me,as the Zodiac.

I believe that Zodiac,pre Bay Area,killed out of anger and lack of self worth.During Bay Area,for purposes of persecution of another man,and his subsequent psychological battle with the authorities.Post Bay Area....back to periods of lack of self worth,as a compensatory tool.

All crimes of Zodiac,come down to ''empowerment'',really.EAR/ONS crimes are ''keenly'' sexually motivated [?].

The only real comparison,on the surface,is the ''skilful burglary''.

With Zodiac,burglary was about ''information''.


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