ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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NOT F - - KING CRACKPROOF

6/1/2020

 
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Without any additional information the April 20th 1970 code is unsolvable. The Zodiac Killer was many things, but he wasn't a  half-witted imbecile with the brain of a gibbering lunatic when he designed this short 13 character code. In a newspaper article authored by Will Stevens on October 22nd 1969 in the San Francisco Examiner, Dr. D.C.B. Marsh challenged the Zodiac Killer no less than four times to supply us with his name in a cipher. Dr. Marsh stated in one section "The killer wouldn't dare...as he claimed in letters to the newspapers...to reveal his name in a cipher to established cryptogram experts". He added: "I invite Zodiac to send The American Cryptogram Association, care of Dr. D.C.B. Marsh, a cipher code - however complicated - which will truly and honestly include his name", quoting Edgar Allan Poe "that any cipher devised by man can be solved by man". Therefore, it was no great surprise when Zodiac's April 20th 1970 letter landed on the desk of the San Francisco Chronicle with the contemptuous opening line of "By the way have you cracked the last cipher I sent you? My name is------".  He knew his last cipher had not been solved, yet in mocking fashion was replying to the claim "that any cipher devised by man can be solved by man". The phrase "by the way" is used to introduce a new subject to be considered or to give further information. The Zodiac was effectively saying to Dr. Marsh he was wrong, now try this new cipher for size.
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The Zodiac Killer chose to include eight characters from the English alphabet in his cipher, with 26 to choose from. Bearing in mind the challenge by Dr. Marsh was for Zodiac to reveal his name in the cipher, what are the odds of "NAM" forming consecutively, along with seven of the eight letters chosen from the alphabet being present in the word "name", being unintentional? Thereby leaving only K surplus to requirements. Although not impossible that this was just coincidental, one could argue that the N, A, M and E were chosen deliberately, considering the challenge by Dr. Marsh and the mocking introduction to the cipher by the Zodiac Killer. Did the Bay Area murderer, responding to the proposition of the eminent cryptographic expert to supply his "true identity" and "name", include his "identity" on line 20 of the 340 cipher, and use the word "name" in the Z13 just five months later?

Was the Zodiac Killer was just playing games with The American Cryptogram Association, determined not to have a further two ciphers cracked in a matter of days? - and thereby avoiding the acute embarrassment of creating "a cipher designed by man that can be solved by man". After the challenge on October 22nd 1969, the Zodiac Killer was going to design the remaining ciphers on his terms, to which he would ultimately reveal the answers. He wasn't going to allow Dr. Marsh the satisfaction of using cryptographic techniques to pry open his ciphers, so used the wording of Dr. Marsh "to send a cipher code, however complicated" against him, by sending two of the most infantile ciphers possible.

If we strike out the seven letters that have now formed "NAME" we are left with "NAME K". If this was the beginning letter of his surname, then the first circled 8 could represent his forename. So, if we are looking for an expanded declaration of his name using both forename and surname in later communications, we would be looking for a two letter combination, ending in K. But in addition, this would have to be accompanied by some pertinent text alongside the two letter declaration. This occurs in only one subsequent communication of the Zodiac Killer.   
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You will notice how he begins this section of text, with "There are reports city police pig cops are closeing in on me". The text refers to the notion that law enforcement could possibly be close to capturing him, with the last word of "me" followed by a comma. One would therefore expect the next line to be a reaction by him in relation to this news. This has long been thought to be the abbreviated word "fuck" - an approach he didn't take in the August 4th 1969 Debut of Zodiac letter, when he wrote "When I hung the phone up, the damn X@ thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car". The two letters of Fk may very well have been his initials - and a declaration that he "Fk, was crackproof". It may also be the answer to the 13 Symbol cipher, when responding to the challenge of Dr. Marsh.

If "Fk, I'm crackproof" was the answer to the 13 Symbol cipher, then one would have expected the Zodiac Killer to have designed the cipher with some markers present, that the answer could be fitted around later. Especially if no cryptographic technique was required. The phrase of "Fk, I'm crackproof" was the perfect response to Dr. Marsh, in that Zodiac could satisfy the request of Dr. Marsh by giving us his name, albeit in the shortened format. He began the April 20th 1970 letter by stating
"By the way have you cracked the last cipher I sent you? My name is------". He responded immediately with his name (FK), before rubbing Dr. Marsh's "noze in his booboos" by declaring he was crackproof, having also just taunted the cryptographic expert with the mocking introduction of "have you cracked the last cipher I sent you?". The Zodiac Killer knew that Dr. Marsh would never solve his Z340 and Z13 ciphers when he designed them, because they couldn't be solved using standard cryptographic methods - and more importantly - the answers were 6 months in the making.

The circled eights (The number 8 in the Bible represents a new beginning) seemed to have extra significance compared to the other characters in the cipher. Because the Celtic Cross and Anchor have relevance in Christianity, it was considered that the number 8 was the beginning of each word. The three circled eights, along with the K and M inside them, were the markers I described earlier, so that his later solution would be understood. All we had to do now, was place the phrase "Fk I'm crackproof" into the 13 Symbol cipher, with each number 8 beginning each element of the phrase.
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The completed introduction to the April 20th 1970 letter now read perfectly with respect to the Zodiac Killer giving us his name: "This is the Zodiac speaking. By the way have you cracked the last cipher I sent you? My name is Fk, I'm crackproof". And so did the phrase "There are reports city police pig cops are closeing in on me, Fk I'm crackproof". Placing his real name in the 13 Symbol cipher was never a realistic proposition - and even if this had been done - it would never have been revealed and could never be proven. The only way a solution to the 13 Symbol cipher could be proven beyond any doubt, was for the Zodiac Killer to give us the answer. He obliged on October 5th 1970, as he did for the Z32 on July 26th 1970 and the Z340 on October 27th 1970. Proving this is the answer to the Z13 in isolation, is nigh on impossible, but when all three ciphers can be answered in three consecutive communications using only the words of Zodiac, it exposes a killer unable to resist temptation. The Zodiac Killer simply didn't have the temperament to take his secrets to the grave. 
Drew
6/1/2020 03:58:18 pm

Hi Richard, I have been through your articles following this angle and I think you have a very compelling argument. He definitely wasn't about to deliver a second cipher that followed the same rules after the first was deciphered so quickly (even though I believe he intended it to be solved at some point) and he certainly wasn't about to give up any more than initials in any fashion, and yet couldn't resist the opportunity to pretend that he was crackproof. I use to struggle to find solutions in phrases ending with the words "target" or "slaves" but couldn't make it work. For a moment though after reading one of your articles I thought I cracked his joke and had it all figured out when I noticed all of the repeating letters in the 13 character name Edgar Allan Poe, but unfortunately it doesn't quite fit in a verifiable way... unless he spelled it Edgar Allan Doe in which case it fits perfectly! Anyways, I thought that might give you a laugh. I hope you are safe and doing well.

Richard
6/1/2020 04:27:27 pm

Nice to hear from you Drew. Yes, Edgar Allan Poe nearly fitted the cipher, but not quite. I always think people expected Zodiac to react to his original cipher being cracked fairly quickly, by creating one much harder, but underestimated its difficulty resulting in a 50-year search. But I think he just altered his technique and created alternative and far simpler formats which were overlooked primarily for the cryptographic approach. Throughout his letter writing campaign he showed little restraint, reacting to newspapers and police statements, sometimes supplying extra details and other times reacting to law enforcement he accused of telling lies about him. He was a braggart with an inability to resist putting pen to paper. This makes it all the more unbeleivable (if we believe he lived for several decades after 1969/70), that not once did he get the temptation to drop us a clue to his "so called" unsolved ciphers. The only way I could envisage this being the case, is he had already given us plenty of clues. In fact, I maintain he gave us the answers word-for-word, hence why it was impossible for him to give us any extra clues. Anyway, hope you are well and staying safe, Richard.

~Bill
6/2/2020 05:42:48 pm

Hey Richard, looks like the word "close" is pasted over a piece of text. What was the newspaper that the clippings came from? If you can recall.

~Bill

~Bill
6/2/2020 06:21:22 pm

Also Richard, why would people not think that the "Red Cross" in the center of the 13 Hole Card does not line up with the center of the Z340? I'm not sure if it does, but I don't think I have ever heard it. This would put 2 of the quadrants with prominent "text" upside down, as if by folding. Z340 clue?

~Bill

Richard
6/2/2020 11:22:39 pm

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-dick-tracy-340-cipher

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-crackproof-cipher

Richard
6/2/2020 11:28:04 pm

Take a look at this thread
http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=72&t=59&start=40

~Bill
6/3/2020 04:46:19 am

Thanks for the links Richard! I will check them out in depth.

~Bill

~Bill
6/3/2020 06:33:52 am

Richard, re: the thread. There are abounding correlations. They are just so sporadically noticed by most that, when enough time passes, they are "forgotten". These are some of the most under-explored topics regarding this case, and there is a wealth of information. Many connections will easily be made by the "yungus amungus". This referenced thread, and related sub-threads with links, should be revisited with intense scrutiny for an "information roll-up". All informational indicators should be considered "guilty until proven innocent". It also is becoming further apparent that there is something held back from the public (forensically speaking) and it is a little frustrating. Thank you again for the reference.

~Bill

~Bill
6/1/2020 04:32:00 pm

Richard, very nice Sir! The post has two paths: The interpreted solution to the Z13 and the "games" played. The interpreted solution is good, but it is somewhat subjective. I still appreciate looking at it from this angle. What you have said about the games Z played, it is perfectly obvious to me that he did indeed. Proven by Z stating things in the letters that we know did not "happen". I often have wonder what would have been different had the "citizen's" Z408 key would have arrived first and gotten the limelight. Makes you think.

~Bill

Richard
6/1/2020 04:46:56 pm

I suppose it depends on who you believe sent the citizen key. Do you believe it was a helpful citizen or Zodiac?

~Bill
6/1/2020 05:12:12 pm

I think it possibly was an attempt to transform to the helpful citizen earlier than people usually think. I think he was always a helpful citizen, At which ever "starting point" you choose, I think he put on this Z villain "mask", and easily took it back off after a "life-time significant" personal event changed his perspective. In answer to your question, I believe it was one and the same.

Richard
6/2/2020 01:33:54 am

In other words Bill, again supplying us with extra pointers in addition to the Harden solution and key. That is why his lengthy description on November 9th of heading into the park I believe is accurate. Nothing whatsoever to be gained by lying one month after the event, unless we contend he was doing it primarily to mock police. His timing of seeing the two cops can be corroborated by Fouke, and his entering the park 1 1/2 blocks further can be corroborated by the eyewitnesses at Spruce Street, detailed in the October 12th 1969 San Francisco Chronicle. He was very animated in his letters when people challenged his claims - his entering the park being one such example. I would like to think police actually called him a liar deliberately, so as to invoke a response and discover new information about their subject, but I suspect this wasn't the case and it was more about egos.

~Bill
6/2/2020 05:54:12 am

Very well put Richard. I see him using the "truth" when the "truth" is more embarrassing to the police than his "misinformation", and he loves it. Another thing that seems a little strange is that he says "the SF Police" instead of just "the police", he references those kids in the "Bay Area", and he says "the good times I've had in Vallejo". This strikes me as an outsider looking in and attaching himself to these areas. He also references "Riverside", once the connection is made, but you can see it is a little awkward. He says there are a "hell of a lot more down there". I doubt this statement very much as we've not seen the conclusive indicators of "a hell of a lot more". I think he was trying to establish himself artificially as being a local to the North and was caught off guard with the Riverside connection. With BRS, if he was local, he would have just said "BRS" on the phone, not a description of traveling directions. Another think he says is "come out of cover". People do say this sometimes, including hunters, but the vast majority of people who would use this term would be LE/Military. Just stuff to toss around and think about. It is speculation, and I could be way off.

~Bill

Richard
6/2/2020 08:29:56 am

I see S.F. Police as more formal than "Vallejo cop" or "good times I had in Vallejo", probably because I've come to the conclusion he was a Vallejo resident. The use of S.F. Police was almost respectful, but when Chief of Police Martin Lee accused Zodiac of being a liar in the following weeks, there was a noticeable change to "blue pigs" and "cops". This continued into his following communications where he claimed there "was more glory in killing a cop".

With BRS I don't think we can read too much into Zodiac not saying Blue Rock Springs Park. Often people state he wasn't a resident of Vallejo because he didn't name the park specifically, just public park. Often these people think Zodiac was a resident of San Francisco, but fail to accommodate the same argument when Zodiac stated "The S.F. Police could have caught me last night if they had searched the park properly instead of holding road races with their motorcicles". In other words he didn't use Presidio Park, so the same argument could be levelled.

It is like the claim that Zodiac got his directions wrong in the BRS phone call, whereas a simple full stop after "east" changes the whole context of the phone call. But notice the bias people apply to the phone call. They say Zodiac got his directions wrong, while automatically assuming 100% that Nancy Slover heard and transcribed the message perfectly, despite them talking over each other for the first part of the call. A lot of people have no problem assuming the dispatcher at Presidio Heights heard and relayed the message incorrectly from "white" to "black" male. If this dispatcher can get it wrong, then so can Nancy Slover. I actually don't think she got it wrong, but the message was incorrectly transcribed without a punctuation mark between "east" and "on".

The "cover" element, along with his compass awareness such as "feet to the west", "one mile east", "two miles north of park headquarters" and "the dogs were to the west" are important features to remember when he complimented this with his use of radians and Mt Diablo map. This guy exemplified directional awareness through his communications, likely derived from a profession/ training, or as you said military.The Zodiac will accidentally and inadvertently leak his "ordinary life" into his "criminal life" through the wording and phrases he chooses, no matter how hard he attempts to disguise the fact. You know that more than most when looking at language. The use of compass directions to describe things in his communications could point to an organized man, like a military person - or may point to somebody interested in hunting, fishing, hiking and orienteering in their spare time - and hence the locations chosen for his attacks, in which he was eminently familiar.

~Bill
6/2/2020 11:02:47 am

Richard, I'm completely on board with just about everything you just said there! VERY good reasoning!

Hey, I ventured to another site and saw that you had posted this-I've never heard it put any better. I hope you don't mind if I paste it here so it can get a view or two?

The configuration of paradice and slaves can be generated in the 340 cipher, bisecting it vertically and horizontally, 17 by 17 in cruciform, so either the Halloween card author discovered this connection, or he was the creator of the 340 cipher, which means he was the author of the Bus Bomb letter & sender of the shirt piece. It would also mean he was the author of the October 13th 1969 letter and Melvin Belli correspondence - and the murderer of Paul Stine. Also, the Halloween card has "by knife", which was written on the car door at Berryessa and wasn't released into the public domain. If you chuck out the Halloween card from the Zodiac communications, then you have to chuck out all the above communications too - along with the Stine murder. The Halloween card was 100% Zodiac

Excellent!

~Bill

Shawn
6/1/2020 07:35:22 pm

JackTheRipper who Z probably fancied himself after is 13

Adolf Hitler was born 4/20 - original last name is 13
Schicklgurber

Richard
6/2/2020 01:00:49 am

For me Shawn, the key is not finding one answer, but finding them all. That is, all answers written by the Zodiac himself. If we supply an answer such as "Fk, I'm crackproof" for the Z13, then we have to supply the answer to the Z340, Z32 and Z38 using only phrases used by Zodiac. I have seen other answers such as Alfred E Neuman, but this isn't written anywhere in Zodiac's subsequent communications and could never be proven. The crux of the argument is not supplying one answer, but supplying them all in only Zodiac's words. Then supplying all the answers subsequent to the final cipher on June 26th 1970. With only the Little List letter, 13 Hole postcard, Halloween card and Los Angeles letter remaining, what odds do we place on every answer being found in just three of them consecutively. We would have to assume the 13 Holes, red crucifix, Fk I'm crackproof, paradice and slaves configuration, sorry no cipher configuration, crosshairs with black circle and crosshairs with the Mt Diablo reference had no purpose. I believe they all gave us the same answer, the solution to the three ciphers. I do however understand, that most people disagree with my assertions. That is no problem whatsoever - we have to go with our own ideas and thoughts. I only say from my standpoint, that my search has finished for the answers to the ciphers. Others will have different conclusions and some will still be searching for answers. Each to their own. The Zodiac will never be identified or apprehended - and even if he was, my guess is he would never be forthcoming anyway.

Shawn
6/2/2020 08:55:40 am

"I have seen other answers such as Alfred E Neuman, but this isn't written anywhere in Zodiac's subsequent communications and could never be proven."

I understand. I like to sometimes throw stuff up on this message board and see if it stick or rings a bell for someone else or someone who might read this website years later.

Something else....I read on another forum years ago...

Some people think an 8 is circled while others think it is a Taurus sign. Some people think the 10th symbol is a upside down Aries sign.

If the 10th character is a upside down Aries sign and the 9th symbol is a Taurus sign. In astrology, below, this is what the sun did in 1970. Which makes some sense from an astrological point of view reading cipher left to right.

Mar 20, 1970 7:56 PM Sun enters Aries
Apr 20, 1970 7:15 AM Sun enters Taurus

shawn
6/2/2020 09:05:23 am

"Which makes some sense from an astrological point of view reading cipher left to right."

CORRECTION - Right to Left

~Bill
6/2/2020 11:40:23 am

Shawn,

The symbol analysis is interesting. I myself have looked at it some, but have not conclusion. Sometimes I look at it (the tenth symbol) and can't help but see an "anchor" followed by NAM. I think someone on some other forum back in history originally posted it, but I thought that was also a good proposal. I think it will eventually make sense when we have that next piece of the puzzle, but your points are good, and it puts context to the astrological perspective.

~Bill

Judith
6/2/2020 09:30:44 pm

Or he meant to say, "F**k I'm crack proof".
His initials were P.S.P.
Don't you see all the P.S. in the letters. Over and over. I sent you a handwriting sample from my suspect Peter Plante.
He uses P.S. on the card I sent you.
Compare that to Zodiac letters.
Thanks.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 06:41:35 am

Just on research that I have carried out , for the time , I can only conclude that '' Fk '' should be interpreted , as '' Fuck knows ''.

Perhaps little different , from '' F**k '' , but giving slight favour to the Zodiac's sense of modesty .

An alternative , for the time again , might have been '' French kisses '' , sometimes included in a letter , to a loved one - but most unlikely in this instance .

Apart from '' Fuck knows '' , I'm looking into whether any folk , perhaps from a specific area , employed '' JFK'ed '' , as in '' messed up , permanently '' . But , yet to find any evidence .

A sensitive issue , perhaps ( ? ) .

~Bill
6/4/2020 06:55:08 am

Rubislaw32, another angle that I've been juggling around is the "Fk" could mean "Fouke", as in the Stine killing. His name should have been in the paper of course as the Officer interviewed who stopped "Z". Then "Fouke" would definitely know he's "Crackproof"- under even the most "stressful" situations. Just another theory though.

~Bill

Richard
6/4/2020 08:21:44 am

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/fouke-knows-im-crackproof

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 07:13:32 am

Indeed , Bill , and I think a good point ...for , what was the Zodiac , if not duplicitous , as in '' duplicity '', as well as '' deceitful '' .

The research required , in what you have suggested , might involve proving that the Zodiac was aware , at the time of his writing '' Fk '' , of Fouke's transparency .

~Bill
6/4/2020 07:22:54 am

You bet it would Rubislaw32 :) I'll try to "wrassle" up the info. Good to see you again by the way.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 07:44:18 am

Thanks , I suppose newspaper reports are the way to go , on that point ( ? ) . Can be a '' long and winding road '' .

~Bill
6/4/2020 07:48:14 am

Lol right, long and winding road for sure :) There's a "Foukes Scratch Memo" thread at another site. Posts from Mar, 2012. I don't want to plagiarize. But the reporters name- what he says- it's "public". In my opinion.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 07:50:25 am

....and , pardon the Beatles pun . But ,he really was a fan . They were the '' Gold Standard '' , for their time . But , admittedly sometimes sounded as if their music had been taken out of a refrigerator , compared to the '' sunny '' West Coast sounds , at the time .

~Bill
6/4/2020 07:54:38 am

Did you ever think about the "average age" for a "Boy" who was a "Beatles" fan at that time? Leads me think were looking for someone on the younger age of the profile spectrum. Just a thought.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 08:14:46 am

Another good point , Bill .

1964 - 1967 , the Beatles were mostly seen , as a '' Boy Band '' for adolescent girls , but gradually their true greatness , as song writers in particular , started to attract everyone from the 5 to 95 . I think that the Zodiac grew up on Rogers and Hammerstein , but the Beatles had a theatricality and melodies in abundance , that gave the more straight-laced youth , a '' buy-in '' to what was hip and cool . Simon& Garfunkel achieved this also , I think .

This tends to place the Zodiac as middle-class , tertiary educated , and a bit younger that many perceive .

I was examining a letter , in the FBI files , last night , that spoke '' overly '' complimentary things , about J Edgar Hoover and , suggested that the writer of the letter was born in 1944 ....the same year that the FBI became '' fully fledged '' . If the Zodiac , then he would have been 25 in 1969 ..

Not so difficult to see , given that he probably moved into a '' trainee manager '' job , straight out of college or university.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 08:46:38 am

Here we have '' evidence '' I believe , of the Zodiac . Three typed letters - all dated April 22nd 1968 .

The first - to Senator Eugene McCarthy , supposedly from Los Angeles .


The second - to J Edgar Hoover , supposedly from Los Angeles .

The third - to Senator Eugene McCarthy , supposedly from New York.

It's all the same guy , and claiming to have just visited the FBI HQ , in Washington D.C. , as a tourist....and by inference , that he was born in 1944 .

I think these three letters certainly gave the FBI '' food for thought '' .

Ref : Eugene McCarthy FBI File 4 , Pages 76 , 77 , 78 , 79 .

~Bill
6/4/2020 08:50:12 am

Just as caveat to your post, I believe he "grew up" on "Saterical Comedy". Just my opinion.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 09:41:46 am

I agree...ironic wit , deadpan humour , but wisecrack also - the Jewish version of irony and deadpan , if you will .

The '' not all is as it seems '' take on life , with even '' gallows humour '' permissible .

Bound to give the Zodiac , an early start , on understanding the hypocrisy in politics and public service ( ? ) .

~Bill
6/4/2020 09:50:31 am

You Bet!

~Bill
6/4/2020 09:54:31 am

The "good citizen" should ask the "Great Pumpkin for a new battle plan". Hey that producer probably had some other cool bands. Pumpkins, incoming. :P

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 12:39:36 pm

My suspicions , Bill , is that the FBI have carried out a complete review on their files vaults in the last 5 years , having accumulated suspect correspondences , over time , and new leads giving them better information .

The Zodiac may well have been , one of the better behaved compulsive hoaxers , for the most part , but some dark moments , for which we the public , are no longer privy .

An example is threats against the life of Stanley Kubrick and his family . These files were once quite large , which then became locked , and are now available....as 4 pages , only ( ! ) .

In addition , the public decision 3-4 years ago to close down the D B Cooper case . They are now only interested , if the public can bring forward '' physical evidence '' . Perhaps content , with their '' correspondence evidence '' ( ? ) - and back to believing that the '' jumper '' more than likely died in the fall .

If the Zodiac is alive , and brought to justice , like GSK , it will only be for his murders - but there may be exceptions , such as the Stanley Kubrick threats , Kubrick's wife and children are still alive .

~Bill
6/4/2020 12:47:40 pm

That's probably about right Rubislaw32. BTW, Not speaking about DBC, but did you really listen to the song "Snoopy vs, The Red Barron"? The Zodiacs link? The Peanuts comic strip? The Great Pumpkin? Hey, just curious, did they find anything under that pumpkin on the Halloween card that you know of? Sorry, just a question.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 01:18:34 pm

Well , the FBI have never disclosed the pumpkin enigma , of course . Though a well-known seasoned contributor is now claiming that he has further information on the Zodiac's Halloween Card . Piffle ( ? ) .

This same contributor claimed that he carried out '' two interviews '' with William Joseph Grant . More '' piffle '' . Perhaps two quick phone calls where , he was told in no uncertain terms , to '' go forth and multiply '' ( ? ) . For , if this contributor really understood the circumstances that lead to Grant's court injunction victory , then he might understand that , there was no way on earth that Grant would ever talk to anyone on the matter - ever .

Interesting that you mention Snoopy vs. The Red Barron , Bill .
The last line of the Desk Top Poem might give a clue ( ? ) :

'' Just wait till next time . r h '' . This seems to have been plagiarized from the last page of a Peanuts Christmas Special book , with Snoopy atop his doghouse .

'' Just wait till next time Red Barron .''

Could be that '' r h '' stands for '' richt - hofen '' . Manfred von Richthofen's surname .

~Bill
6/4/2020 01:27:45 pm

Not sure on the "r h". However, Snoopy makes a "good citizen" i think. These connections with "Peanuts" and "comics" again point to a person on the younger end of the profiling spectrum. Bye the way, that really is a cool song :)

~Bill

~Bill
6/4/2020 01:40:08 pm

"The Bloody Red Baron" is really "rolling out the score" eh? Does this remind you of someone?

~Bill

~Bill
6/4/2020 02:02:08 pm

lol, that is almost like "Rich Hoffman"

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 02:05:07 pm

Yes Bill , but possibly in the Zodiac's dreams , until '' Bay area '' came about ( ? ) .

Looking back in history , the Red Barron's combative deeds are really most extraordinary . But , it cannot be underestimated that a '' one-hit wonder '' song , gave greater knowledge of his exploits in the sky .

Charles Shultz was a California resident , well-known member of the '' Sierra elite '' and friend of Ronald Reagan . (..though a liberal conservationist...) .

~Bill
6/4/2020 02:11:44 pm

Sorry, not sure if the other post came through. I was saying yes, i agree with you, either way you look at it there is a "Peanuts" connection. :)

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 02:17:50 pm

I suppose one could make a case for the Red Barron being one of the greatest '' legitimized serial killers '' in history ( ? ) . 80 '' credits '' to his name .

~Bill
6/4/2020 02:45:20 pm

Hard to prosecute that one Rubislaw32, I believe Z possibly values being a "hero" and a "good citizen". In this case, the Z "mask" was only worn for a couple of years. I really think the LE community should have been looking for a "good citizen" who turned in to a "Zodiac killer", then back to a "good citizen". Meaning, since he spent the majority of his life as the "good citizen". It just feels like he was a "social avenger" of sorts. Its just more speculation on my part. Take it with a grain of salt.

~Bill

~Bill
6/4/2020 02:50:22 pm

Definitely a "working class" "young" type of "social-avenger" in my opinion by the knowns.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 03:22:54 pm

Yes , I think that the Zodiac did turn back , into being a '' reasonably good '' citizen , again . But , couldn't resist the compulsive hoaxing which , as the FBI Files teaches us , time and again , amounted to small-time extortion , and almost impossible to prosecute .

But , I believe that the parameters of the Zodiac's behaviour were dependant on his '' happiness'' factor , in his private and real life .

1978 , it seems to me , was the first '' glitch '' on his journey in life , where the wheels came off again . More than probably , because of the end of a marriage , and possible separation from a previously settled family life .

1978 saw the Zodiac wanting '' back in '' to a previous feared past , which had compensated him , for his hurt inside , at that previous Bay area time .

But , counter-intelligence gave the Zodiac '' short thrift '' .

~Bill
6/4/2020 02:56:22 pm

But I think he is more accurately "student" class. All crimes were committed against "students" and "student age" peers. Even down to the threats on the "school busses" and the bombing of one. He is killing his "student peers". The connection to High School, College, and Military is high probability in my opinion.

~Bill

~Bill
6/4/2020 03:18:53 pm

In 1969, if Z was a student in the "college" bound traditional sense, H would be nearing his completion, or completed with a 4 yr program or less. If he was military, he would be in the "lower-enlisted" junior ranks. IMO.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 06:56:45 pm

Indeed , I read you on the Peanuts link , Bill . I think that the Zodiac no longer bought comics , but held on to a collection from his childhood , and could still indulge in the syndicated strips , like Peanuts , that appeared in the newspapers that he read .

Wouldn't we all just love to know what was under the pumpkin , on the Halloween Card ?

Those FBI guys just steer us , and only offer extra when they are uncertain that they have the full picture , themselves .

~Bill
6/4/2020 07:06:15 pm

It's hard to see if things are missing due to "Him" or from jurisdictional discretion. Hey on the demographics, this guy is "very formal". If between MIL and College, in my opinion, I would lean MIL.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 07:36:43 pm

Instinct tells one , that it was a '' boner '' of some sort ( ? ) .

After all , The Zodiac needed to extract his '' Fag Fee '' from Mr.Avery , for suggesting unkind things about him .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 07:42:21 pm

The Zodiac was probably pigeon toed , and blind as a bat . Not ideal credentials for passing a military medical . But , there is always the possibility of being a military cadet , at college ( ? ) .

~Bill
6/4/2020 07:48:48 pm

Rubislaw32, ya maybe with mil cadet at college, but military made lots of "exceptions" for people in Viet Nam era, for draft or volunteers. Where do you get pigeon toed and blind as a bat? just curious.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 08:05:05 pm

Well , I've heard '' shuffling '' as description , but could be overweight in relation to size of feet .

With eyesight , there could be grounds for thinking that he was both hear and far sighted . Not often , the '' tidiest '' person , with his correspondence '' presentations '' , with postage stamps placed , more in a '' take aim '' manner ( ? ) .

~Bill
6/4/2020 08:12:04 pm

Also don't forget "Wounded Warriors". There would be plenty of them visiting The Presidio, even for specialty clinics in the area.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 08:26:25 pm

'' Good accountability '' by the military , and in their support of the police , over the Zodiac case....as reported , anyway .

Individuals that were military linked , and suddenly under the spotlight , could probably be eliminated quite quickly , if the local relationship between the police and military was on good terms .

After all , the military would not have wished that the Zodiac was '' one of their's '' . But , had the Zodiac proved to have been , then the military would have wished to have been seen to have been supportive , in law enforcement's efforts to apprehend him .

~Bill
6/4/2020 08:37:29 pm

He hates police-he taunts them, he hates students-he kills them and threatens them- he hates most of the "public", and hippies in particular, probably because he could not go to school and served his Country. I believe he resented not have the normal chance at girls and school. The sarcasm in the Z408 about "killing being so much fun" is very "overt". He is angry about these things. But he never says anything against the Military.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 08:51:04 pm

I agree that the Zodiac had trouble with intimacy with girls , at school , not least struggled to find real friendship with his fellow males .

Despite being well read and quite generally knowledgeable , the crux of the Zodiac's problem was probably expressing himself , in a manner that brought desired attention .

Once the Zodiac found his expressiveness was accepted in the written word , then his '' calling '' came to him . Hence , a thrill with hoaxing , but sadly led to him becoming a small-time extortionist , then a murderer , when he struggled with '' menacing means '' .

~Bill
6/4/2020 08:55:55 pm

I will agree with 2/3 rds of that statement.

~Bill
6/4/2020 09:14:17 pm

Hey Rubislaw32, do you know if the cops checked to see if the battery was actually dead in CJB's bug? Not just a cut distributor wire, which would make it misfire, but the "coil wire". If it was cut early, CJB's battery may not be "ran dead" and have charge. Just trying to get a "picture" of her running down a car battery in front of a relatively busy library for that amount of time.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 09:27:37 pm

Not up on that , Bill . Other contributors may be better placed to comment .

~Bill
6/4/2020 09:40:44 pm

Sure! Any info is appreciated!

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/4/2020 09:23:56 pm

Certainly see the keeping the military out of his written agenda , as conspicuous by its absence , Bill .

Despite his digs at the establishment , he probably was a patriot at heart . And , it perhaps might be noted that many young men wanted nothing to do with foreign affairs in South-east Asia , but preferred to stay silent over the matter ( ? ) .

~Bill
6/4/2020 09:25:35 pm

Bet!

~Bill
6/5/2020 10:27:05 am

lol, "Bloody Reddit Barron". Oh well, it was "Reddit" anyway. Sorry for the humor. Quiet around here.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/5/2020 07:35:59 pm

Yea...32,000 membership now , at the main Zodiac website .

A huge escalation in interest of the case , since the public humiliation of '' Dr. Voigti '' , by the Bay area cops . 14 months ago .

That's something he has contributed , anyway ( ? ) .

~Bill
6/5/2020 10:09:24 pm

Rubislaw32, your terrible. lol

~Bill
6/5/2020 10:21:37 pm

Anyway, *cough , I hadn't heard anything about that.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 04:09:37 am

It's a bit of a tiresome tale , by now , Bill , but '' Dr.Voigti '' had been attempting to emulate the Zodiac , as a compulsive hoaxer , for a number of years , and got caught with his pants down , over a series of gun violence and racist hate threats , to colleges and schools in the Bay area .

Because it became Zodiac related , the FBI became involved and , as a consequence , '' Dr.Voigti '' has been black-balled by the Bay area cops , for ever more .

He wanders around now , like the Emperor with no clothes , as if nothing happened ( Lol ....though its far from funny . ) .

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:49:20 am

I think that is a good observation, and I am a huge fan of your punctuation. Leaves the post off on a "good" note :P

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 07:07:12 am

Thank you Bill , compliments can get us through the bad times .

'' Dr. Voigti '' still never understands how information was relayed to the FBI , so quickly . That is for him to find out .

At the time , there were college kids and young adults on the news , in tears over real fear about what might happen to them , and '' Dr.Voigti '' was '' hiding behind a bush '' , still touting his Zodiac hoaxes .

Even the psychology fraternity can't believe that he hasn't already been sectioned under mental health legislation .

~Bill
6/6/2020 07:10:34 am

"Bloody Reddit Barron" indeed. I will now go wash my pen. lol

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/5/2020 10:37:12 am

For anyone that might take an interest , Richard , the BBC's award-winning documentary , Disclosure : Who Killed Emma ? , has finally been made available for viewing , at the BBC iplayer website , and available internationally , with the correct VPN facility .

Disclosure : Who Killed Emma ? , documents the mistakes made , in the original investigation into the murder of Glasgow prostitute , Emma Caldwell , in 2005 .

In May 2015 , The Lord Advocate of Scotland formally requested of Police Scotland , that they re-investigate the murder of Ms.Caldwell .

In June 2018 , Police Scotland formally submitted a report to the Crown Prosecution Service , naming whom they believe is responsible for Ms.Caldwell's murder .

Two years later , and to date , an arrest is still pending .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/5/2020 11:05:56 am

Regular readers to this site might note that the murder of Emma Caldwell , is believed to be one of a series of murder re-investigations , in a law enforcement exercise , known as '' Operation Bynum '' .

There are no places called Bynum , in Great Britain .

There is one place called Bynum , in Ireland .

There are 6 places called Bynum , in the U.S.A .

One of which , forms an equilateral triangle with San Antonio , TX , , and Houston , TX .

~Bill
6/5/2020 11:09:36 am

One does indeed. :)

Ethan Martin
6/5/2020 07:40:28 pm

Keep it coming Bill. Tell us more

~Bill
6/5/2020 09:19:41 pm

Most people think there is a "connection" to Riverside by the fact he mentions it in "feedback". Bates indicator link is #2. Shepard link is #3 We know he is a fan of auto racing as proven by select text on the "Stine" letter. One of the best in CA would be Riverside. In my opinion that is 4 links minimum to Riverside, not 1.

~Bill

~Bill
6/5/2020 09:35:29 pm

He's saying "there's a hell of a lot more down there" to establish himself as "northern" and to take your "focus" off THAT murder. It is deception.

~Bill

~Bill
6/5/2020 09:49:23 pm

He was "personal" with at least one of these girls. Possibly 2. I pick the 2 from Riverside, by "Knife".

~Bill

~Bill
6/5/2020 10:45:54 pm

Or the two "Brownett's" by "bayonet".

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:30:26 am

~What I mean by that is that we know Z is a "driver" himself and knows "cars". He is a "fan" of raceing. He may "call out" raceing or driving behavior in his letters ;)

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 09:58:03 am

Another reinforcement that he was "good" with cars, besides "Johns" and "Bates". Different tire tracks mean different tires, which means he saved the money instead of buying new ones, or he didn't have it. So if he saved the money buying new tires, he probably saved the money of having them "put" on. He would have done it "himself".

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/5/2020 02:04:42 pm

Well , the BBC have suddenly sneaked this documentary in , without any '' song and dance '' , having originally pulled it from public viewing , in February of last year , having denied anyone from seeing it since , and believing they owed no one an explanation why .
Perhaps the Crown Prosecution Service got to them ( ? ) .We are still none the wiser .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/5/2020 02:37:14 pm

Hey Richard . How did you come by the Santa Claus Card , to show ?

Was it Mike Morford ?

Richard
6/5/2020 02:53:02 pm

No, I accessed them via Zodiac Revisited. Then resized and cleaned them.

http://zodiacrevisited.com/zodiac-killer-fbi-document-release/

Click 2nd link, then top right file.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/5/2020 03:27:30 pm

Thanks . I'll check it out . How long has Michael Cole had it for , and does he have any idea how he acquired it ?

Of interest , naturally .

The BBC documentary won its third major award , yesterday , and perhaps the Crown Prosecution Service felt that they had to give way ( ? ) .

Or, comfortable with its release....any mistakes made , in a murder investigation , are never '' pretty '' to watch ( ? ) .

Richard
6/5/2020 03:46:57 pm

Since 2012, accessed from Mike Morford, who used the FOIA.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/5/2020 07:13:45 pm

Interesting set of events ( ? )

True Crime in the U.K ;

Mon.June 1st - Disclosure : Who killed Emma ? Available to general public , for first time , after 15 months .

Wed.June 3rd - News breaks on Madeleine McCann case , in Germany .

Thurs.June 4th - Disclosure : Who Killed Emma ? - wins best current affairs documentary , at Royal Television Society awards .

Ever since , all True Crime news has been dominated by the Madeleine McCann case .

The Crown Office moves in mysterious ways ( ? ) .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 04:29:07 am

I'm not sure if it will assist everyone's needs , but the Zodiac contributor , Ricardo Gomez , has set up a direct link to the BBC's iplayer site , for access to Disclosure : Who Killed Emma ?

This , at the zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net site , in the thread called : '' Zodiac Killer in other Countries '' .

~Bill
6/6/2020 10:45:25 am

Hey Rubislaw32, any "leaked oil" at any of the suspected parking sites at the crime scene? Fresh or old? Antifreeze? Just curious.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 04:49:00 pm

Beyond the usual firearms evidence , we are not that much the wiser ( ...but others please contribute , if you know more .

Lake Herman Road was quite interesting , because of the weather conditions . Sub-zero temperature , but extreme high (air ) pressure . So,no discernible tyre marks on a gravel-like surface .

It seems that there was regular vehicle activity , on Lake Herman Road , that evening , with a reasonable amount of feed-back to investigating officers .

Ordinarily , the car park was known to be used by lovers and adolescents holding impromptu car parties . It seems that the Zodiac was stalking the car park , waiting for the appropriate '' bait '' , while driving up and down the road....and sometimes parked up an embankment close by .

As for a car employed , there are conflicting reports , but personally go with William Crow , who was a bit of a dab-hand with motoring and car mechanics . Crow stopped at the car park , to check his engine that wasn't firing properly , and noticed the car that had seemed to be stalking him - a blue and white Plymouth Valiant . Then , likely a 2-door hard-top 1966 model .

~Bill
6/6/2020 11:46:26 am

Also, Rusislaw32, i was thinking. you would find service members all over the SF area at this time. The young ones love the "night life". In the darkest corners of the City, the fear-less would venture. Combat vets and killers alike. But for a "social avenger" righting a perceived wrong, these crimes from '68-'69 would have been his 'hunting" area. Lover's lanes included. He doesn't like it, because he doesnt "have" it. BTW, why did Paul Stine not serve in Viet Nam again? If you know. Thanks.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 12:19:10 pm

Look for a significant change in late'70 or '71. Marriage/School, GI benefits coming through, etc. He gets the "school" and/or "he gets the girl". In my opinion.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 02:10:05 pm

It will always be a difficult call , with a military link , Bill .

We know that they were generally supportive towards LE , in their efforts to expose the Zodiac . But we don't know to what extent that the military investigated their own , in terms of personnel movements , and any individual serving man , that might have given cause for particular scrutiny .

But , we know from police reports , that POI's did crop up , that were currently ( then ) serving in the military , and it must be presumed that LE then lent on the military for assistance on particular individuals .

~Bill
6/6/2020 12:13:32 pm

Turn page please. lol

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 01:01:45 pm

Rubislaw32, totally unrelated. Another fantastic Beatles song is "The Ballad Of John And Yoko, Take 7". Gold standard for sure.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 02:16:14 pm

I think that there is a possible John and Yoko link to the '' message in a bottle '' unconfirmed correspondence . I'd have to check again , but I think John and Yoko ...and Marvin Gaye and Badfinger ( on the Beatles Apple label ) .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 03:22:04 pm

Here we have the '' message in a bottle '', found by a Stockton woman , off Paradise Point , in May of 1973 .

Dated : February 2nd 1973

'' The war is over , thank God . Please help me . Am still the Zodiac and going to kill a baby . P.S. Help ! Save the world .''

In December 1969 , John Lennon and Yoko One rented 12 Billboards in major cities , including New York , for the displaying of :

'' The War is over if you want it . Happy Christmas from John and Yoko .''

And , at Christmas 1972 , Lennon released the single :

Happy Christmas ( war is over ) .

~Bill
6/6/2020 04:00:03 pm

Another cool song is "I Feel Like I'm Fixin' To Die Rag" by Country Joe and the Fish.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 09:13:09 pm

Jeez! Especially when viewing the Halloween card! lol.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 10:39:49 pm

And don't pretend you don't see "by by F A G" at the top. :P

~Bill
6/6/2020 11:57:07 pm

Rubislaw32, the best of all Beatles songs though I think might be "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band-Reprise"- The "real" gold standard. :)

~Bill
6/6/2020 04:58:00 pm

Just on the offhand, "The Government" does fit the 13 hole right? But its anyone's guess I think.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/7/2020 08:58:56 am

Yes Bill , that latter part of the sixties ,represented a cross-over from Pop singles , to Rock albums , and the Beatles were both pioneers in the transition of the popular music , as well as the Art form , that it represented .

And, Sgt.Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band being notable , in this respect .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/7/2020 06:28:37 am

One might well note that the '' Paradise Point '' seems a bit tempting , in this instance . There are examples in the FBI files of hoaxers that appeared to use every available means , to put a specific hoax across .

Phone , telex , telegram , written note , typed letter etc.

So,it is possible that the '' message in a bottle '' came to someone like the Zodiac , as a novel means of conveying a message . The bottle and message would have been pre-prepared , naturally .

Then, something simple , like throwing a tennis ball into the water , first , to see where it ended up .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/7/2020 08:09:39 am

....or,indeed , did the bottle ever actually enter the water ( ? ) .

Just strategically placed , beyond the normal tide-line , at a spot where dog-walkers were known to frequent . And , the note actually being written , much closer to the date that the bottle was found .

These are the little tricks , that small-time con artists are forever dreaming up .

A snarky Zodiac contributor ought to know ( ? ) .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/7/2020 08:48:46 am

I've just looked at Paradise Point , at Stockton . In essence , it is a marina , popular to visitors , with easy access from roads .

~Bill
6/6/2020 05:39:29 pm

Hey Rubislaw32, I've got 3 guesses at what might be under that pumpkin on the Halloween card. But it might get a little crude. One of my guesses is maybe a "Pair of Dice" representing "nuts" or something from the "boner" class (lol). What do you think? Do you have a guess? Anyone eles?

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 05:47:23 pm

Like the '' Pair of Dice '' .

What's the betting that Graysmith actually knows the answer ?

~Bill
6/6/2020 05:49:26 pm

I don't gamble Rubislaw32. ;)

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 06:07:14 pm

I used to think that the FBI had added the pumpkin ,themselves .

But , someone told me that the Zodiac had fashioned it as a flap , and that it had detached , when the card was first examined .

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:13:26 pm

Well, barring anything like the FBI adding it, it has been asked if there is something there. Silence. If there is "nothing" there, then I think this would have been most likely stated. It is confirmed by silence IMO. This can be an indicator of a "piece" of information withheld at jurisdictional discretion, as opposed to withheld from the killer.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 06:26:48 pm

Indeed , there's something there .Probably just appealing to the Zodiac's sense of humour , at Paul Avery's expense .

A few items remain a mystery . Paul Stine's journey trip sheet , that the Zodiac appears to have deliberately left behind , when he could so easily have removed , comes to mind .

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:33:12 pm

Takes a lot of "handling" of a trip sheet. Probably on a clipboard or something. Pressing it down, taking the paper, wadding it up in your pocket. Or, carrying the whole clipboard down your parka sleeve. I think it was "easier" to leave it in my opinion, if he even thought that about it. But, i don't think its a showstopper.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:38:32 pm

I would check though to see if those gloves are "MIL" issue.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:40:10 pm

Any idea on Stine's service record? He was going to school, IIRC.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:54:54 pm

Sorry, I'm being lazy. I'll look it up. I'm just trying to "build" up a conversation between these two.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 06:49:36 pm

Not sure about that .At the time of his death , the taxi work was to pay for his education , and new career .

I have two brother-in-laws that are American .One from Texas and one from Florida . Their take of that time was to either be in work , or be in college - that way the military would have no reason to want you .

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:59:39 pm

That is cool. Small world. I only have 1 brother-in-law who is American.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 07:03:21 pm

Hey you know the Military tears off tail pieces of t-shirt for "field dressings" in the absence of a packaged pressure dressing., Idea for Paul Stine's shirt piece in addition to the 'wiping down" and "proof" ( ? )

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 07:15:56 pm

Gyke was a medic - even if we felt so inclined to be that interested in him , as a Zodiac candidate , we wouldn't have to do any research - '' Dr. Voigti '' has already done it for us .

~Bill
6/6/2020 07:11:42 pm

By the way, what was playing at the Marines Theater at Mason/Geary area?

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 07:18:03 pm

No idea .

~Bill
6/6/2020 06:57:47 pm

If he had a passenger who was a killer and proud of his Service, and had said "anything" about the war being a "waste" or "that he skipped and went to school" would have "pissed" him off IMO. Significantly.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 07:09:41 pm

I suppose there is a subliminal suggestion of '' Vietnam '' in the My name is ---- cipher text , but , apart from that , the Zodiac seems to avoid any mention of anything military .

Putting the establishment , on the back foot , seems to have been his thing .

~Bill
6/6/2020 07:13:09 pm

He over-compensated. In "anger" and in "good deeds".

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 07:27:50 pm

Hey Rubislaw32, i'm sure you know that 1 song was a "Double A" release right? They are both cool. I would love to see CJB diary pages. Wishful thinking though.

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 07:36:57 pm

Yes , we won't be seeing that .

Darlene's address book has never really given extra answers . But , it is supposedly the one she kept as '' husband and wife '' . There is rumoured to be one that she kept for herself and , we are unlikely to see that , also .

~Bill
6/6/2020 08:27:42 pm

Hey, what about Shepard's diary? Did she have one? Any personal papers? I mean since the "connection" to the college with She and Bates.

~Bill

~Bill
6/6/2020 07:38:17 pm

Seriously though, does that "Reddit thing" look like a "funny-looking dog" with a "big black nose" ( ? ) Anyway, I'll talk to you all later. Have a good one. I am off to do My THING!!! (listen to music).

~Bill

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 07:45:29 pm

I'll just check on the main Reddit Zodiac site .

A doctor writes ( ? ) . More like tramples on new and optimistic contributor's hopes and ideas .

Shameful stuff .

~Bill
6/6/2020 07:53:51 pm

Bet.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/6/2020 07:59:42 pm

I've just seen the quote of the week :

'' I don't think Voight ( sic ) wants it solved .''

~Bill
6/6/2020 08:41:18 pm

You guys are alright ;)

Rubislaw 32 link
6/7/2020 09:43:42 am

Blindness is a relative thing ?

Zodiac internet exchange of the week :

'' shicetea 22 '' : '' I have a seizure disorder and can't go to Voigt's site , because of the flashing avatars . ''

Mr.Voigt : '' Where are they ? I don't see any .''

Rubislaw 32 link
6/7/2020 09:56:13 am

'' shicetea 22 '' : '' Voigt has Gaikowski's name highlighted and flashing , and insists that Gaikowski is the prime suspect .''

Mr.Voigt : '' Where is Gaikowski's name flashing ? ''

Rubislaw 32 link
6/8/2020 08:39:52 am

'' shicetea 22 '' : '' Butterfield , at least , doesn't sit there and push his agenda on anyone . ''

Mr.Voigt : '' Who ? ''

Tom1
6/7/2020 08:45:29 pm

you guys are on it like a “bass on a june bug”. This is the best comments section I have read. I posted prior about the Pair o Dice Motel, and E Clampus Vitus Paradise Calif. Help me out. He is hiding in plain sight.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/7/2020 10:56:58 pm

Some nice words from you , Tom 1 .

Of course , we can't all be right about who the Zodiac is , but , I'm sure it isn't Gyke . And , until the Cipher Slayer is brought to justice , then no one will really believe anyone else's claim .

Speaking for myself , I stand by my belief that Lyndon Lafferty did stare into the face of the Zodiac , at Hunter's Hill car park .

But ,it wasn't Bill Grant .

Tom1
6/8/2020 04:26:07 am

Me too, but very puzzling how the “imposter” was able to get away with taunting the CHP.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/8/2020 06:46:09 am

Well , by way of possible explanation , the Zodiac had been playing '' cat and mouse '' with Lyndon . and this had not been the first time . In this time , Lyndon had got close enough , to satisfy himself that the Zodiac's car , in question , appeared to have the same licence plates as Grant's car , and was the same model .

So, when Lyndon entered the car park looking for this '' joker '' , Lyndon had already decided in his mind , who he was looking for . And . when the car pulled up beside Lyndon's , Lyndon's mind was already focused on whom he believed he was going to have to deal with ( Grant ) .

The last time I e-mailed Lafferty , I told him that I was confident that the Zodiac was far more scared of Lafferty , than the other way round . This was probably no consolation to Lafferty , because the experience had irked him , and felt sure in his mind , of what had unfolded in that car park .

I was really referring to the intervening years . I believe that Lafferty had the capacity , in his investigative work , to expose the Zodiac . But , was just too set in his ways , in believing that the Zodiac was Grant .

Tom1
6/12/2020 12:12:08 pm

Back in the day suspects were picked up for less it seems.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/8/2020 09:42:17 pm

Another interesting postcard , Richard , sent to the National Rifle Association , in protest against their perceived underhand lobbying habits .

Sent from the coastal resort of Virginia Beach , Virginia , to the NRA in Washington D.C. , postmarked April 2nd 1981 ,and just three days following the attempted assassination of President Ronald Reagan , by John Hinckley Jr.

On address side :

'' N.R.A.''
MAN OF THE YEAR
HINCKLEY

On other side :

CURSE OF USA LOBBIES
I WOULD GIVE $100 NOW TO
HELP BOMB YOUR OFFICES
-PLUTOS-WEALTH OF LOBBIES

The Zodiac humour is there , and quick to seize on an event .

Handwriting , includes the '' seahorse '' lower-case '' f's '' .

Ref : NRA FBI File 1 , Pages 83,90,91 .

Richard
6/9/2020 01:43:32 am

Thanks for the link Rubislaw, I'll check it out. I have temporarily ceased trawling through those files. It doesn't half play havoc on the old eyeballs.

Rubislaw 32 link
6/9/2020 05:43:30 am

Agreed on the eyeballs ( lol ) .

The caustic humour is here , with the Zodiac....but another example where , the hoaxer isn't necessarily anti-right of centre politically ( ? ) .
More a case of '' This is what guns can do , in the hands of those that should never be allowed to acquire them '' , and '' If we allow organizations to offer politicians monetary donations , this how it can manifest itself , in the eyes of the world .''.

The enigma of the Zodiac ( ? ) .

A prude and socially and morally responsible , when it came to him .

Being the Zodiac , was largely an act .

'' Core motive '' of the Zodiac will reveal how he fit in with the other players , in the Bay area opera that emerged .

Rubislaw 32 link
6/9/2020 06:13:00 am

And I realize now , this hoaxer's postcard came only three months after the murder of John Lennon .

And , we know now , that 10 months on from this , the Zodiac was still touting his hoaxing trade , as '' S C '' .

ZN
7/28/2020 12:37:04 pm

same amount of letters as in ROMAN POLANSKi ;)

therese
9/10/2020 09:55:55 am

And like Polanski, Z was probably a pedophile too,

therese
9/10/2020 10:22:08 am

I always figured that the "Fk," stood for "frankly"," If his name is "Frank", he couldn't very well have used "frankly". I knew a guy named Frank once and he would often get a big hoot out of referring to himself in the third person as "frankly, Frank says.. . blah, blah, blah". My Frank's first and last name consist of 13 letters, and the guy's background, tendencies, personality, and criminality, and travel history, early stomping grounds, work locations and other profiles ticked off all the boxes.

Chad William Burke
10/5/2020 01:25:44 am

homophonic - ♉/ circled 8's shift 8 in Greek alphabet

My name is ----

AEN⊕♉K♉M♉λNAM
AENVSKAM⊕ONAM

AENVS K.A.M. ⊕ ONAM

AENKM       ⊕♉♉♉λ
AENKM         VSA⊕O


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