NOBODY IN THE TURNOUT

8/27/2015

This is what Pierre Bidou said in the 2007 documentary 'This is the Zodiac Speaking'; "During that night we had served a search warrant at what we call The Cottage at Lake Herman which was owned by the city of Benicia, a narcotics search warrant my partner and I, we confiscated about a pound and a half of marijuana, which in the 1960's was a big drugs bust, today it wouldn't get very high on the Richter scale. We had left and were heading back to the police department to put the marijuana into evidence and as we drove by we didn't see or observe anybody in that area, there's a turn there (the crime scene turnout) and your headlights shine right in there as you go by. As I was pulling into the lot at the police department we heard the Benicia Police Department dispatcher put out a call of a possible shooting and victims on Lake Herman Road and described the location. My partner and I turned around at that time and responded to the call." https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=3m5s
In the Benicia Herald online this is confirmed "Bidou and his partner had served a warrant on a Lake Herman Road cabin Dec 20th 1968 and were on their way to deposit some marijuana in the police department's evidence locker when they were dispatched back to Lake Herman Road." http://beniciaheraldonline.com/citizens-police-academy-signs-of-the-zodiac/
In True Crime with Aphrodite Jones (2010) he states at 11:58 into the video "And you can see she is dead and the bloods still fresh, her heart was still pumping the blood out when we got here."
By all accounts it appeared Pierre Bidou responded pretty quickly to the crime scene and was one of earliest officers at the Lake Herman Road turnout. But there is one very big problem when we look at the timeline of Frank Gasser, Robert Connelly, Peggy and Homer Your, Stella Borges and James Owen.

The timeline of the above eyewitnesses are often questioned as to what exact minute they passed the crime scene turnout. However, what we are fairly certain of, is that David Faraday's Rambler is observed for at least a 15 minute time period from when they were observed alive by the Your's around 11.00 pm until Stella Borges passed the turnout around 11.15-11.20 pm, when she observed the bodies of the young couple lying on the turnout floor and raced off towards Benicia to alert Officer Daniel Pitta. We know Stella Borges passed the scene at around 11.15-11.20 pm, the exact minute is not important, but she sped off towards Benicia and attracted the attention of Officer Pitta. He arrived at the crime scene between 11.22 pm and 11.28 pm, depending on whose opinion you read- but you can see the rough timeline.
Pierre Bidou stated he passed the turnout on the way to the Benicia Police Department, his headlights illuminating the turnout and nobody was observed. It takes approximately 8 minutes to arrive at the Benicia Police Department from this location traveling at 30 mph- at which point he receives the dispatcher's call of a possible murder. Pierre Bidou by all accounts had to have passed the scene before the murders, yet how can 8 minutes, or even 10 minutes later, a possible double murder have been reported. The timeline of the above eyewitnesses is 15-20 minutes. In other words, after Pierre Bidou had passed the turnout David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen would have had to park up, been spotted by six eyewitnesses over a period of 15-20 minutes, before and after the murders, before Stella Borges raced off to notify Officer Daniel Pitta a further 3 to 4 minutes later. He was the first officer to have been informed of the crime. This means 18 to 23 minutes had elapsed from the first eyewitnesses spotting David Faraday's Rambler, to the reporting of the crime to Officer Daniel Pitta. So how could Pierre Bidou have been notified as he pulled into the Benicia Police Department just 8 to 10 minutes later after passing an empty turnout and stating "We had left and were heading back to the police department to put the marijuana into evidence and as we drove by we didn't see or observe anybody in that area." There is simply not enough time for all these eyewitnesses to have observed and done what they said they did, and for both David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen to have been killed in approximately 8 minutes.
Furthermore, considering the slender timeline- if Pierre Bidou had passed the turnout and spotted nothing- then for the Zodiac to have entered the turnout shortly after David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen had arrived, committed the crime and left without being seen, would suggest he not only arrived from the Vallejo area but had returned that way afterwards- any other scenario would have him passing Pierre Bidou as he was traveling towards Benicia and this was not mentioned by Pierre Bidou. However, had the Zodiac chosen to turn left and head towards Vallejo after the murders, he would have passed Stella Borges along Lake Herman Road, and she reported passing no other vehicles en route to Benicia. Again the timeline breaks down.

Also, in this article http://beniciaheraldonline.com/citizens-police-academy-signs-of-the-zodiac/ it stated "Bidou and his partner had served a warrant on a Lake Herman Road cabin Dec. 20, 1968, and were on their way to deposit some marijuana in the police department’s evidence locker when they were dispatched back to Lake Herman Road. Initially, they were told a woman was lying outside a car; they thought they were being sent to a crash. Police at first speculated it might have been a crank call, but the officers headed back north. But when they arrived, Bidou realized it was no crank call and no car accident. Instead, it was a sinister crime scene"
Who sent this 'crank call'- it certainly sounds from reading between the lines, that this wasn't an official police radio dispatch relayed from Officer Daniel Pitta. Could it have been an early Zodiac phone call? The only other two people to have known about the Lake Herman Road crime scene at approximately 11.18-11.23 pm was Stella Borges and Officer Daniel Pitta. However, if Officer Pitta had called in the crime, it would have been an official radio message, not a crank call- possibly indicating a third party was aware of the scene at Lake Herman Road. So either somebody else of innocent persuasion had also passed the scene near to the timeline of Stella Borges, or the Zodiac himself had called it in.
Finally, in the True Crime video with Aphrodite Jones (2010) https://youtu.be/TFp9s3cwkms?t=11m9s Pierre Bidou twice mentioned David Faraday being inside the car, at 11:17 and 11:45 into the video. He stated "The young man was still in the car" and "you see the male in the car still breathing." In the https://beniciaherald.wordpress.com/the-zodiac-case/ article it stated "Inside the car, the officers found a boy in the passenger’s seat who appeared as if “he was trying to get out” of the car. Bidou remembers seeing the shattered glass of the car window, pierced by a bullet. More poignantly, he also remembers that the boy was still breathing." Additionally, on the 'Richard Gaikowski-The Case of the Zodiac Killer' video, we get a further example at 13:22 where Pierre Bidou stated "The male was still halfway in the vehicle and he was showing signs of breathing." https://youtu.be/vdVJH1OVk-Q?t=13m22s. I suppose we will have to put these four examples down to a slip of the tongue.

49 Comments

Robin Smith

8/26/2015 11:17:42 pm

UH..OH!! and just what did Officer Bidou do with... "The young man still in the car" and "you could see the male in the car still breathing"???

Seriously big uh oh's !!!!!!!!! I wonder what his parents would think of this revelation...my my my...

Alex Lewis

9/14/2015 11:00:24 pm

Faraday being shot while still in the Rambler is not only possible, but maybe even probable. Zodiac does not like male to male confrontation and this is seen in His actions at Lake Berryessa in demanding Cecelia totally bind and incapacitate Hartnell before Zodiac will come within 6 foot of Him, and this is Zodiac with A gun! Hartnell says He whispered to Cecelia that He thought He could maybe get the gun off their gate-crshing mad man and Cecelia said "Oh no, don't try anything..." and then, Bryan says, Zodiac stepped back another two to three ft.

This is clearly a man who is not at all comfortable or confident with male to male confrontation, struggle or fight even when the hooded man is armed.
Mike didn't only refer to the first shot fired at Blue Rock, but Zodiac himself confirmed that "When I fired the first shot at His head, He leapt backwards at the same time thus spoiling my aim."
Knowing from Hartnell's statements how Zodiac kept His distance until Cecelia had restrained Her Male friend before Zodiac would come within arms length, coupled with Mikes account of the first shot fired and confirmed by Z as being through the window at the Male occupants head, why shoud or even why would we have any reason to believe Zodiac didn't do exatctly to David what He said He tried to do to Mike, eliminate that which can resist and fight back should the unthinkable happen and gun jams.

In fact if I was asked to bet on the notion of Zodiac having a reserve backup pistol strapped to his shin, down rear of his trouser waisteband etc, I would say it's almost a certainty.

Robin Smith

8/26/2015 11:42:43 pm

There are soo many things soo wrong with this I can barely stand to read it again!

A lot of people LYING here and many of them cops across jurisdictions.

People wonder why the 50/60's generation is soo fed up and pissed off?

Look at what "they" did with our children.

"A grain of sand will lead to the fall of a mountain when it is time for the mountain to fall."

Alex Lewis

10/13/2015 02:54:39 am

"There are soo many things soo wrong with this I can barely stand to read it again!"

Nothing wrong Here Robin, it is quite clear to me that when witnesses report that there was nobody in the victim vehicle nor any sign of both David & Betty nor a 3rd and unknown offender then when we ask where are they and who is responsible I will offer....

"Them little bastards greys have done this! GREYS! Them little shit-heads that have come from a Galaxy far, far away!"

Leave it with me Robin I shall resolve this and am dialing Toschi as we speak....

"Dave? Hi Dave, are you available if I pick you up in an hour? What for? You & I are going to see the Judge for today David we will secure Arrest warrants for those responsible. We shall ask the Judge to please issue a warrant of arrest for The Greys. The Greys David! Just ask the judge to sign a warrant and the charges are Inter-Galactic Conspiracy to Kidnap, and the accused are named "The Greys", address "Planet X, 385 Zeda Reticuli star system Zip code, ZDA RTULI340. I am unsure at this present time what their area code is but am confident one of my Criminal Informants will furnish me this at a later date.

Now I am sure Robin you will join Richard in congratulating The Welsh One for once again supplying you with what is, the most rational, logical, extra-terrestrial option to consider in the Lake Herman Road mystery.
Yes, you are privileged to know such a modern day Genius such as myself, and I wish sometimes that I could be someone else just so I could claim to know me.

Your Humble Friend: Alex.

Robin Smith

10/13/2015 09:15:21 am

Alex:)

Speaking of our little grey friends I will tell you that my Mother was born and raised in FALLON, Nevada. Long story, she graduated Childrens Hosp SF 1941 as RN and I was born in Iowa during the war...father was a conductor and brakeman on RR in Iowa and I was born there.

Moving to FALLON when I was 10yrs. Believe it or not many sightings of your grey friends out there. Maybe that' what's wrong with me!?

Back to the point...all the crooked stuff going on with the Vallejo, Martinez, Pleaston etc area it would be impossible to get through it if you were not an insider and if you are an insider of the Vallejo area bunch you are either in mortal danger or dead by now.

Interesting that the same scenario is pervasive. People fear for their lives and even more so the lives of their families!!! TRUE TRUE TRUE.

Then there are the POWER players...Kjell Qvale Robert E Hunter et al

Richard

8/27/2015 03:50:42 am

one shell casing found inside the car and of course had Zodiac been standing between the cars firing it is not implausible a casing ejected into the open passenger door. It just surprised me that the fatal shot to Faraday was actually beneath his left ear exterior, an unusually close position to adopt when you have both victims at your mercy. However had Zodiac approached the male threat first at the driver side window asking for ID Faraday could plausibly reach forward for ID from the glovebox and Zodiac being right handed pressed the gun into the region behind his left ear and fired. The gun may have been inside the vehicle when fired and the ejected shell casing ricocheted onto the floorboard of the vehicle. But for whatever reason no close ups of the interior were shown as they were at Presidio Heights and the police report never mentions any blood in the car. However Zodiac states in the Chronicle letter "the boy was on his back with his feet to the car", so why does Bidou twice state he found the male in the car, it's a pretty big slip of the tongue. Were the photographs of the crime scene with both body positions shown in the newspapers before Zodiac's Chronicle letter. If not and Bidou had discovered Faraday in the driver's seat and Faraday's body had been moved then Zodiac must have passed the scene later to view the altered position. I know it's a long shot but something isn't right. Had Zodiac ordered Faraday out of the car there is no need to make a contact wound behind the back of Faraday's ear, a shot from 6-12 inches would work, but that would have damaged the ear itself but the wound is such that a gun was pressed behind the ear, not a natural position to achieve if Zodiac is to the right of Faraday as he exits the Rambler. I'm also not convinced both were ordered from the passenger door.

Alex Lewis

9/14/2015 11:24:29 pm

Rich is that a known fact and found in the LHR Police Reports that A spent casing from a fired bullet was discovered in the actual rambler?

If that is the case then I would move from my position of 'Favouable over and above He being in a Vehicle of His own' to one of 'Almost Certain in my own mind that He was on foot and likely surprised Dave & Betty by simply getting into the back seats of the Rambler and fired lethal head shot from the rear seat.

This would be consistent for many many reasons.

Firstly, it's assumed that Z was pumping a couple round into the Ramber to force the occupants out. Well ok but, why? What did He want to have happen? He does not do man to man confrontation, so if anything, He'd likely want David remain in the Rambler if He is outside of it.
Secondy, if someone is outside of the vehicle your inside of and that someone starts demanding you exit it and starts shooting at you who the fk is going to comply by turning the ignition & engine off, opening door, and stepping out? Nobody would, nor likely could do that because if lead is being fired at and into your vehicle, rational decision making and time to think this over then react goes out the window. You don't think and weigh up the best options, you simply go into auto-pilot and adrenalin and endorfins flooding the body's blood stream will initiate the 'Fight or Flight' response automatically. Fighting isn't even a possibility, and while I openly admit that I have never had someone firing 9mm, 38, 45 or any caliber of bullet at me but I don't need to have someone do that for me to just know if someone even pointed a pistol at my car, I'd be flooring it instinctivley. Same as I know if an armed and unknown man just walked up and got into the rear seats of a car I was in, Instinct agian would see me try and get out and away from the danger.

Alex Lewis

9/14/2015 11:44:36 pm

Z being in back ducked out of view aswers and expmains much that otherwise makes little sense....

Betty is allowed by her Father to go on first ever date that night with one stipulation attched, that being, David bring her back home by 11pm at the absolute latest. Yet 11.05, 11.10. 11:15 ticking by and David & Betty still sat out there doing nothing not caring about any curfew. Or, they are not out there still via their own free will but are being held.

Faraday & Jensen's vehicle is observed by two sets of witnesses, each passing by the trun-out between 11 and 11:15pm and one is absolutely sure the car was facing front end out onto Herman Rd, the other is adamant it was parked facing the gated entrance. This is seen by many to this day as a case of witness discrepancy but it is likely to be accurate and both observations correct. If Z enters and is in rear seating area, He would wan't clea view of LHR and any potential people approaching and so Having David turn the car to face the road would be a likely order He'd give David. Also the two front seat occupants were said to have reacted in a way I have always seen as odd by sitting up straight, Faraday's hands both gripping the steering wheel and He and Betty just sitting ridgid as vehicle passes by. Odd? To me it is. Yet if I am offender i rear ducked peering betwee the gap in between front driver and pssenger seats I want to ensure nobody tries signaling this approaching vehicle and it's driver for Help. How would this be best achived? Ordering Faraday to keep his hands where Z can see them, locked safely in view on steering wheel which, as it happens, is exactly what Law Enforcement are trained to order drivers to do when stopped.

Richard

9/15/2015 01:02:00 am

Yes a casing was retrieved inside the front of the Rambler, shown here http://www.zodiackiller.com/LHRPR5.html, there are two possibilities, it was either fired inside the Rambler or if it ejected outside the Rambler and landed inside, although I don't find this scenario likely. As you say his other crimes show extreme caution with the male, dealing with Mike Mageau and Paul Stine while they are contained within the car and Bryan Hartnell is secured first. Why on earth would he even allow to risk losing control at Lake Herman Road, it is far easier to shoot the victims in the car, maintaining and securing their limited movement. If he had wanted to deal with David Faraday first then an approach to the driver side door was required, probably firing the two shots into the Rambler as he circled round the vehicle. One of the shots entered the right rear window and entered the left rear wheel well at an angle of 17 degrees to the floor, see here http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/2372692_orig.gif
This, based on a 5'10" man had to be fired within two feet of the Rambler to create this angle, any further and it would have travelled straight through both windows. Pierre Bidou stated three times Faraday was found sitting in the passenger seat, as far as I am concerned this isn't a slip of the tongue, it has some relevance bearing in mind Faraday was killed by a contact wound. From this position in the passenger side, it is obvious he shuffled over from the driver side, but if Zodiac was waiting outside as everyone believes, a contact wound to his left ear from here is impossible and what I don't understand is considering the other crimes, how would Zodiac have allowed David Faraday to get so close to him on the gravel turnout to put a bullet through his ear. Some people say that as Faraday exited the passenger side Zodiac stuck the gun into his head and fired, well Faraday as you know was supposedly found feet virtually touching the right rear tyre not directly outside the passenger door and secondly Zodiac showed a propensity to keep a buffer zone between him and the male unless he is on the blind side like Presidio Heights. My only problem with the rear seat scenario is if Zodiac was right handed as I believe a shot to the left ear of Faraday is not a natural shooting position and if he was felled then and there, then Betty Lou would have already exited the car at that point. December 20th was a cold night of 22 degree, there must have been some condensation on the windows and may have forced Zodiac to open the driver side door for a clear shot, either that or David Faraday initially tried to exit this door, but as Zodiac closed in his reaction and that of Betty Lou out of panic was to flee from the passenger door, Betty Lou made it out, but as Faraday was halfway out (remember what Bidou viewed, Faraday halfway in and out of door) Zodiac extended his arm and struck Faraday by his ear. There is one big problem with this scenario however, had Zodiac then exited back out of the car to deal with the fleeing Betty Lou he would be now positioned on the driver side door and all the expended casings were on the passenger side.

Richard

9/15/2015 01:53:02 am

If Faraday was found halfway in and out of the car still breathing and evident bullet tracts in the car, isn't it logical responding personnel or ambulance staff would extricate David Faraday from the seat and place him on the ground to facilitate better access to his injuries, something that would have been extremely awkward clambering into the car and in the process compromising any evidence within the Rambler. But then marking a chalk outline around David Faraday becomes superfluous, especially considering he is still alive. It seems a bit unprofessional on the part of one particular police officer. I know above I stated Bidou mentioned Faraday in the vehicle 3 times, but it was actually 4 times, this by some people is put down to a slip of the tongue or memory, but rarely does any victim found on the ground suddenly jump back into the passenger seat by a poor recollection, people forget details but rarely add them to this extent. It would be like Pelissetti saying he saw Paul Stine upright in the seat.

Alex Lewis

9/15/2015 02:18:34 am

Some really good points made there Rich. In response to several of the points you highlight, the answers or responses will as always be kinda along the lines of "Well....In theory...."

Why would Z apprear to have used left hand to shoot David if He is in rear seat? Answer could be as simple as, 'Cause He's left handed' or a circumstance forcing this to be His only choice if, lets say, David has grabbed at Z;s right hand which He holds and point gun at Dave;s head with, not knowing Z has another concealed gun on him and pulls that one with left hand.

Zodiac firing into the Rambler with a motive to get Faraday to come out make little to no sense to me at all. If Zodiac thought it would be a wonderful idea to fire random shots into the Rambler because He was determined to force David to exit the vehicle, then obvious question is 'why?' What for? To do what, ask David if He'd like to dance?
At Blue Rock Z pulls in kinda behind Dee and stops her ability to simply drive off, why not pull up and block David in the same or similar way? James Owen would have us believe He didn't want to use his car to ensure the targets can;t simply drive off and parked his car down the other end of the gated turn out. And even then, as a car pulls in, lone male gets out with something in hand and is walking toward He and Betty, no alarm bells seem to ring for David.

Zodiac Himself makes a statement that seems to me rather odd and as if He's reply to something that has been suggested or implied by others. He said: On the 4th of July: I did not open the car door. The window was rolled down already."

That comment, to me anyway, can come with a possible implication underlying it as far as the context in which it is said by the writer goes. I mean to me He is making a statement that July 4, "I did not open the car door!" said with tone suggesting it may mean "July 4, I did not open the door this time, as I had done in the Dec incident written of in the previous paragraph. This time I had no need, the window was already rolled down.

And as you point out mate, if the accepted theory is the correct one, that being 'David is attempting to exit and is shot at this moment' then,
A: How does He not see Zodiac lift, aim, place gun in proximity of 1 to 3mm of Dave's head, and David not see it coming and grab for, duck under/side leap away or whatever, like Mageau had done. And how David's exiting and facing the shooter standing outside looking straight face on at each other and Zodiac fire 'The magic bullet' that somehow arch's and curves around the front and impacts David behind the ear.

And shooting to get the Male out is, in my opinion, completely the wrong way around and the opposite to what Z's intent was because if He's firing into the car then for me, He's trying to stop David Exiting by shooting at him to force him to retreat into the vehicle. I tell you Rich, if you shoot 9mm rounds at me while im sat in my car, I assume you mate I will not likely respond by immediately opening my door and stepping out to confront you about your bahaviour.

Alex Lewis

9/15/2015 02:28:53 am

I assume you mate?? Lol. I really am a complete muppet sometimes and will never learn or have patients to proof read over a statement I may make checking for typo's or my transferalization (Yes, my Invented word) of one word, substitutinalized for another and incorrect one.

I did, of course Rich, mean "I can assure you" not I assume you. Quite how one even assumed another is not clear to me, the person saying it.

Richard

9/15/2015 02:38:37 am

There is no way Faraday's Rambler was found facing into the fence and perpendicular to it. Take a look at this photograph and the line of the fencing and verge on the left side. http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/3810493_orig.jpg
The Rambler's rear end is facing as though it is trying to reverse from the turnout, explaining maybe why Zodiac fired warning shots into the vehicle, because David Faraday attempted to escape by reversing. The policemen in the photograph are at the entrance to the turnout and the rear of the Rambler is facing them. If you look at this photograph http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/7097446_orig.png the turnout complies with the road, it is slanting westwards, hence the blood flow from both victims is westwards also; see here http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/2003000_orig.png
The Rambler cannot be parked facing the fence of the turnout because it would be aligned on the east/west axis in the same direction as the blood flow and it is not, it is 90 degrees to it, here this is shown three times
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/8788296.png?347
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/3810493_orig.jpg
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/2003000_orig.png
Therefore David Faraday's Rambler was found facing its rear end towards the entrance in a north westerly direction. The police sketches in the Lake Herman Road report are based on eyewitness recollections passing the turnout prior to the events of the shooting, but the photographs clearly show the Rambler is not facing the fence anymore, it is now appearing to be be in a reversing position, even the tyre directions indicate this.

Alex Lewis

9/15/2015 08:42:26 am

I know Pierre said David was breathing but it was not his will to survive grasping for Air, but, " was just because His brain hadn't qute shut down yet which would shut him down."

See the fact Faraday is not yet deceased as Pierre arrives on scene has to surely suggest that David's Brain & it's death had yet to occur. Brain starved of oxygen supply can usually last a maximum of 4 minutes before permanent irreversible Brain Damage starts to take hold, full brain death ceasing electrical activity completely will then usually occur within 2 to 4 minutes of The Brain Damage stage being surpassed.

And so....

...if that is a correct and accurate time frame from 'bullet penetrates Skull to Clinical Brain Death' then Pierre, maybe another unit responding, who it was is not the question, it's how they drove passed Him and failed to spot two strategically place beaming round thins called headlights coming toward or seen driving away from Cops coming from Napa & Benicia.

"Innocence Lay dead, police arrived literally within a few minutes of Suspect clicks heels "There's no place like home, there's no place....." and vanishes from upon the miles and miles of curving country lane/roads. Where He go? Nobody knows, He must have deployed a Presidio Like Weapon of Mass Destraction.

Robin Smith

8/27/2015 03:57:18 am

Excuse me Richard...I'm the dense one in the group:( A Police Officer Bidou found a dead girl and a dying boy in a car and HE did what?

Richard

8/27/2015 04:22:27 am

Who knows probably nothing. At the moment the only mistake he made was a slip of the tongue. Still trying to work this one out, and probably never will.

Robin Smith

8/27/2015 04:30:19 am

This definitely fits into "local" jurisdiction and I think that some one or more of these "local" assets should be cleaning their own houses.

Mayor Alioto had lotsa "local" assets in towns like Martinez, Vallejo, and the rest of those slime/crime ridden towns.

Robin Smith

8/27/2015 05:11:26 am

This revelation, to me at least, just adds credence to my position that Paul Stine was targeted by Z, he was not just some random cabbie shooting and that there is plenty of collusion between agencies and Hunter and Qvale and Kane.

Kane's benefactor was from Martinez by the way and one of Darlene Ferrin's people said to leave Kane alone because he was Bob Maloff's Mob juice.

Maloff and Karadanis owned and operated the Lake Tahoe Inn as well as The Timbercove Marina in South Lake Tahoe.

Richard

8/27/2015 05:43:57 am

Actually Robin it is alleged the only door open was the passenger side door and Faraday was found in the passenger seat, possibly half in, half out. I have added above this: On 'Richard Gaikowski-The Case of the Zodiac Killer' video we get a further example at 13:19 where Bidou says "The male was still halfway in the vehicle and he was showing signs of breathing." https://youtu.be/rO0u4e3qS9s?t=13m19s
Couple this with the Benicia Herald statement "Inside the car, the officers found a boy in the passenger’s seat who appeared as if “he was trying to get out” of the car. Bidou remembers seeing the shattered glass of the car window, pierced by a bullet. More poignantly, he also remembers that the boy was still breathing." That is now four times he mentions Faraday in the car, not only in the car, but likely in the passenger seat.

Richard

8/27/2015 05:50:28 am

Since it was Faraday's car and he was supposedly driving, being found in the passenger seat with a bullet wound on the inside of his left ear is suggestive of Faraday attempting to move away from a killer approaching the driver side door.

Alex Lewis

9/14/2015 11:58:03 pm

Rich you said:

"Since it was Faraday's car and he was supposedly driving, being found in the passenger seat with a bullet wound on the inside of his left ear is suggestive of Faraday attempting to move away from a killer approaching the driver side door."

Could be, and Killer fires a hell of a lucky shot hitting a moving target behid the ear and through the vehicles window or, He isn't approaching anyone from anywehere, He's fired this round so accurately to hit the victims right behind the left ear, exactly the same place He shot Stine only opposite side of the head behind the right ear in that case, becaue as with Paul's fatal shot, both were fired by a suspect sat directly behind them.

Clear and straight forward, to my mind anyway. And if your arm is rresting on the supporting back rest of the persons seat sat in front of you and your wanting to shoot them, the hand held gun would be at a level consistent with where we know the fatal two rounds hit the target's head.....right behind or close to the ear level.

Richard

8/27/2015 05:56:25 am

This is maybe why one bullet casing is found on the passenger side floorboard.

Alex Lewis

9/15/2015 12:09:06 pm

Sheer coincidence Rich but I just happen to stumble across a book I bought earlier in the year and, it seem, the author doesn't offer His belief in or claim evidence himself for an on foot offender, but reference the finding by the on scene Investigators as determining from the scene, bullets and vehicle that the shooter, whom ever He were, came up and approached Faraday's Rambler on foot from the rear.

Then, when the two did realize He was there behind The vehicle, it's suggested that David then may have tried to pull away and spurs the offender to shoot out the right rear side window and the left rear tyre of the car. It's alleged that because of the placements of the 22 Calibre casings found and scene as a whole, the guy came up from behind them on foot and surprised them it seems the on scene belief and what the evidence seemed to be implying.

Book if anyone wants to check for source material is "The Case of the Zodiac Killer" Authored by Diane Yancey

Richard

8/27/2015 07:29:37 am

The Zodiac pulls alongside the Rambler. Zodiac fires two shots into the Rambler as a deterrent.. Zodiac walks around to the biggest threat first as he has done in all his crimes attacking the male victim first. He approaches the driver side door, as he does Betty Lou grapples with the door to get out and Faraday shuffles over to the passenger side to get away. Zodiac opens the driver side door and as Faraday is half in, half out the passenger door Zodiac thrusts the gun with his right hand behind David Faraday's left ear and fires. One shell casing is retrieved from the floorboard on the passenger side. David Faraday in his panic to exit the door could possibly have struck his right cheek on the door panel of the door accounting for the lump on his right cheek at autopsy, however this is likely as a result of trauma from the bullet. Betty Lou Jensen starts to run and Zodiac warns her to stop. He walks round between the cars and shoots her in the back 5 times. Faraday is bleeding from his left side and the blood falls inside the car. When Bidou arrives he finds David Faraday in a seated position still breathing. They do not just leave him, but in a desperate attempt to see the full extent of his injuries or to stop him falling out of the car, after all he is half in and half out, decide between two of them to support his torso and legs. In this position they have to shuffle away from the door and lay him down by the rear wheel on his back. Remember the police report only mentions Betty Lou Jensen and a chalk outline, not where David Faraday was first discovered and there are no close up shots of the car interior as there was at Presidio Heights. But why was blood never mentioned being present in the car in any police report. This is one for the conspiracy theorists, maybe it was withheld to verify any potential false claims. The biggest problem with this theory mind is the Zodiac claims in the 1969 July 31st - Chronicle Letter that "the boy was on his back with his feet to the car." However this was 7 months later and he could have just regurgitated what he read in the newspapers. If this was not the case he most likely was somehow familiar with the crime scene or was a police officer privy to such material. Hence the use of a flashlight, parking to the rear of the victims car at BRS on July 4th and his odd statement in the Bus Bomb Letter "To prove that I am the Zodiac, Ask the Vallejo cop about my electric gun sight which I used to start my collecting of slaves". This theory needs a lot more work and do not claim this to be the answer, but something is very unusual about four statements saying Faraday was in the passenger seat.

Richard

8/27/2015 08:02:17 am

If Pierre Bidou was correct and Faraday was discovered in the passenger seat, Zodiac should have stated this in the Chronicle letter 7 months later. But he stated the lying down position "feet to the car." If Pierre Bidou is relaying the true facts and I have no reason to disbelieve him, he seems a genuine guy, then that means Zodiac was either a police officer with access to police reports or he passed the scene again that night while the crime scene was still in situ ie; the chalk markings and car and assumed that maybe David Faraday had somehow ended up in this position in his final moments, so relayed this information in the Chronicle letter.

Robin Smith

9/15/2015 11:25:47 am

Two things are bothering me here:(

One of the responding SFPD changed his description of Z, down to the brown shoes and elastic waist band to match literally word for word that description of Z given by one of the victims to a Vallejo cop.

Brown shoes?...I thought many times that shiny military style shoes fit the description of Z's favorite foot wear.

Alex Lewis

10/24/2015 06:31:51 pm

Lets assume Rich for a moment anyway for the continuity of this article. Well if He (Zodiac) knew that when He left the scene David was slumped in the Rambler and that it was only when first unit arrived that David was led out on the ground for purposes of CPR then, indirectly and by default, He is telling the authorities that He either came bk to the scene or knew a cop that was there and could tell Him the sequence of events as they unfold. As soon as the ambulance arrives remember David is taken & rushed to Hospital as a pulse has been discovered so it's not as if He was led on the gravel there for half an hour or more, minutes at the most in reality, minutes inwhich Zodiac must see David or know somehow that He's led with feet to the vehicle awaiting the paramedics.

I don't understand this error or inconsistency in body position like I am baffled still at Betty found with 5 shots thumping into her lower to upper right side of her back yet she's fallen, it would seem, facing the person we are told that is shooting her from somewhere adjacent to the Rambler. We have to imagine Betty gets hit times, stops, turns to face the shooter who doesn't fire again because Betty falls facing the gated turn out in a manner that for all intent and purposes would seem to put any shooter shooting from the Road itself if she fell and ended up that way naturally.

Alex

10/24/2015 06:44:46 pm

The Laws of The Universe are, as you know Rich, constant without exception. Sir Issac's Law of Motion is no different that an object that a 100M Hurdle Runner in the Olympics will always fall, should his foot collide with a hurdle and cause loss of balance and no longer maintain the ability to remain vertical, then, without exception, He is going to fall forward ie, in this case, toward the finish line. I've not come across a participant in the Hurdles race yet that collides with the second hurdle and crashes to the ground backwards and toward the starting blocks.

As I have suggested on other threads using other examples, Universal Laws don;t apply to Zodiac it appears, He can suspend them in his favour at Will.

Richard

10/26/2015 01:03:48 am

That is very true Alex and as you said we don't suspend the laws of motion for Zodiac, so it is fairly obvious that Betty Lou was neither running towards Zodiac or away at the time she fell. She most likely was virtually stationary, brought to this position by 5 bullets. Almost certainly after the final bullet struck her, she had probably staggered to a full stop. If you stand up straight and push your knees forwards, simulating her knees buckling beneath her, your natural body position causes you to fall backwards and this is what happened to Betty Lou.

Richard

10/26/2015 04:15:09 am

Also when people are shot running away they don't always simply fall straight down forwards or straight down backwards. Sometimes they roll or gambol forwards ending up facing backwards. Take a look at this shooting of a fleeing suspect, it shows you can fall any way. There is no universal law. There are many other examples on Youtube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwbADwzeh1Q

welshchappie@aol.com

8/27/2015 11:43:40 am

It wasn't just Dave and Betty that had a propensity to appar in person and then 3 seconds thereafter then do vanish into thin are but, it seems, David was able to make His Rambler do likewise because according to everyone who was anyone that drove by that night that rambler was there from at least 10:30pm that night. Now if we are to take the sttements of these same witnesses then David was moving around the tur-out 15 yards this way, 30 years then the other way, reversing out and turning vehicle around facing out onto Herman rd before then again turning to fae the fenced off barrier overlooking humble oil yes, this is what these witnesses statements seem to suggest David was busy doing but, being undecided as to which area in the turn out He deemed most suitable to park and facing what direction while doing so, this may well be, however, this is not important to discover why Dave is unable to stay parked in one place facing certain diretion for more than 4 seconds because Pierre comes aong to add "We hadn't long driven by that area and, again, your lights shine right into that area as you go by and we did not see any vehicles there at that time."

I am writing the Biblical tale of Zodiac as we speak.....

"And so it came to pass that in the late 20th Century, A Serial Killer did discover how one may make oneself invisible at one's own will. For He was devious and evil, and did consult One Lucifer Satan, residential address - Appt. No. 666, Hades, HellFire Cove, as to how this could be done. For the Artist called Satan, formery called Lucifer, and Devil on weekens told The Horoscope themed one: "Incantation Zodiac, thus will render invisible. Repeat the chant 'Al-a-ca-zoobe al demite, al-a-ca=now-me-do-vanish-from-sight...." And POOOOF! Gone from the detection of human vision.
Presido Hights was escaped from using similar evil secret code chant, "Zoo-b-de-April and Zoo-be-de may, here-come-the-city-pigs, they'll get the finger watching me fly-away."

I am just kidding obvously about the above, and I hear whispers alrready 'This Welsh Person is a complete lunatic, with psychotic outlook and views in life. . ." etc but I am, of-course, not intending to be taken and read as literal, good God No, that would be just ridiculous! I couldn't be speaking in literal terms with direct quoting silly, I don't know what the chant code is to enable humans to fly! Taking me Literal, what's wrong wth some people?

*Grin*

Alex Lewis

8/27/2015 03:13:42 pm

But how they were killed (sequence), why they were killed and by whom etc, are all questions that can and should come after the initial question of..... "Why were they even out there at that time allowing them to become victims?"

This was not simply 'A' date for Betty-Lou this night, it was Her 'First Ever' that she was given permission to go and have with a young man. Faraday was aware of this and when Betty's Father told David He wanted Him to bring Betty back by absolutely no later than 11.00pm, David agreed that He would do just that.

Now if I am David going on first date with a girl I really do thinka lot of, and Her Father only gives me one thing I must do in order for me to gain His trust and respect and accept me as a boyfriend of his Daughter and that one thng was the most simplistic thing of wanting me to bring His Daughter Home by a specified time, I'd first think "What, that's it? No other list of rules or you may vs you may certinly not?" and then I would really ant to make a good first impression and i'd be pulling up to drop Betty off at 10:40 - 10:45ish just to score an extra bonus point.

Witness claim states that even at 11:15pm, 15 minutes past the deadline they were not dashig to Betty's home realising they were a tad late, but both still just sat in the Vehicle appearing to be just sitting there.
This is why I have questioned Z's 'on foot' approach and did so by simly coming up from beind the car, opening the rear door and getin in and ducking out of view with gun pressed into the back of drivers seat, for example. If there were not still there gainst their own will and held by a 3rd armed person then why are they still there this late when David will not want to make a very bad frst impression which likely result in His not being allowed to take Betty out again, and Betty I would have thought would Herself not want to have the 3rd degree read to her after arriving home at least 30 to 45 mins after the deadline given by Her Father.

Richard

8/27/2015 04:05:54 pm

Yes Alex it seems a simple request to have her back by 11.00 pm and it wasn't actually difficult to do, being allowed to stay out until 11.00 pm when she is only 16 seems pretty generous by father standards. The on foot theory I don't totally rule out, but this would mean another third party parked up besides their Rambler at around 11.10 pm, if we are to believe James Owen's version of a car hopping back and forth between 3 and 10 feet alongside the Rambler. It is logical that they were detained sometime before 11.00 pm by Zodiac and a short time afterwards by a Zodiac concealed in the rear of their vehicle and James Owen's testimony is unreliable, after all it is only his version that ever puts two cars in that turnout and even then despite describing the Rambler he has no recollections of the characteristics of the other vehicle whatsoever despite it supposedly being right next to the Rambler and as Pierre Bidou stated your headlights illuminate the turnout as the bend approaches and not to mention Zodiac's inexplicable good timing with such a short window. But I still cannot understand how Bidou cannot see any vehicles in the turnout. People say maybe his timing is wrong and he passed the turnout at 10.00 pm, but on countless occasions he refers to virtually just turning round at Benicia Police Station not sitting round for an hour and a quarter. If as you said the Rambler was there from 10.30 pm his timing has to be out by 45 minutes, you simply do not get these facts so momentously wrong in such an important investigation.

Alex Lewis

9/16/2015 01:18:58 pm

Rich in regard to James, and your commenting: "The on foot theory I don't totally rule out, but this would mean another third party parked up besides their Rambler at around 11.10 pm, if we are to believe James Owen's version..."

I don't believe Owen and his claims what-so-ever and while it may be assumed I take this position because I have long leaned toward Z on foot this is not at all why my chips have fallen and come down on the side of not believing him because the things He claimed to have seen that night out at and/or near the scene were things that simply would have had to have been confirmed by other witnesses driving out there. For example: James tells the police in interview that just as He was approaching the Gated Entrance, a vehicle came from the other direction and passed him just seconds prior to Himself passing the Pumping Station Gated area.

Well before we thank James for this crucial secondary potential witness we should consider what Stella Borges said because she was only a few minutes behind James going in The same direction. See Stella is that she did not see nor pass any other vehicle just shortly before she came upon the scene. Yes Rich, we have yet another car that was but was not. Well lets say I can put my ever cynical and suspicious mind at ease by simply talking to a second witness who will speak to confirm that they too saw the same 2nd vehicle and in doing so, back up the account as given by Owen and thus, confirming as a seconder to the claim of a 2nd car there. This will be most easy Rich because as you, there were others who drive by just before and after James sees the 2nd car....,

Result of Investigation: Of the other passing vehicles and their witnessing drivers, the exact number of people who confirm that they also saw this 2nd car was ZERO, none, nil!
Wait, maybe they just didn't recall seeing 2nd car or didn't pay close attention,could that explain this? Well, in a word, No.
Other passers by recall seeing exactly what was there and it was one vehicle and one alone and that vehicle, some of them correctly remembered was a station waggon. Well now something is not right here, there are now not one, but two vehicles that only appear to and are seen by, James Owen. . .

Well if I am taking his statement and discovered the above I now going to jump in at this point with: "OK Mr Owen before we go any further Sir I will remind you that you have the right to remain silent and anything you say now can be used against you in A Court of Law. You are here o your own free will and are not under arrest and you are free to l;eave any time during the statement and questions there-of. With these rights in Mind James, are you happy to continue?"

That in itself would be grounds for mde to suspect this man to be involved in the crime itself or is at the very least, lying to cover for the man that He knows is.
My final straw would be James then telling me the correct Make, Model, the Color and Type (Boxy) of the vehicle everyone else saw and knows was there but this other 2nd car is now absolutely crucial and James as only man to report sighting it there now becomes of absolute vital importance as to what He can tell us about it!
And so after rather proudly confirming every detail of Davids rambler other than the Reg/Plate, He then tells cops that it is most unfortunate but, He cannot even ONE Generalization of this other car, not even what shape it was. So my conclusions baseed on knowing the above is this:

James Owen is not confused, nor misremembering, but rather (In my opinion) James is lying. Because I believe James is deliberately lying, then in my mind, logic will dictate James is lying and has reason and/or motive to try misrepresenting and then inventing things that did not exist.

Do I think James is Zodiac? No.

But who was that Man Owen randomly drops into the laps of Police.... ,Some guy by the name of Prentis, who, Owen added, can be found residing at the Appts. at the end of Springs Road."

Police didn't follow this up and ever ask this Mr Prentis one question, which I believe could turn out to be something they may one day be seen to regret when the consequences of not brought this guy in for questioning becomes painfully clear

Richard

9/16/2015 02:50:32 pm

In recent months I have come to believe James Owen's story to police as unreliable. I always found it unusual that in one statement he places the vehicle's 3 to 4 feet apart, describes the Rambler, but remembers absolutely nothing about the second vehicle, not to mention the shot he heard after initially not mentioning it in his first statement, plus nobody else at the Marshall Ranch or Borges Ranch or anywhere in the vicinity heard anything that night. I am not suggesting this is the case here but it is not unheard of that eyewitnesses embellish their stories with each statement to increase their importance to the investigation, sort of acquire a little bit of fame being the key eyewitness. Hence the magic bullet, cementing himself as major factor in the timeline and investigation. You often see witnesses and even family members playing up for the cameras when you view many murder documentaries, often over dramatizing their recollections and observations, using hindsight and false memories that can often blur investigations. That is one of the key problems with having cameras in court, people think their auditioning for a film, seeking their 15 minutes of fame and can often embellish and exaggerate events. Eyewitness testimony is not the most reliable in the day, never mind 11.00 pm at night on a dark deserted road. I had the discussion with somebody via email about Bidou and they stated that Bidou passed the turnout earlier than thought, but because they had just achieved a big drug bust of the day, they didn't head straight back to Benicia Police Station, they most likely parked up at a fast food shop or eatery, took in a bit of grub before heading back, but could hardly put that in the report. Now that is definitely possible as cops stop off for grub all the time, you see it depicted in many movies, however if this was the case and Bidou and partner failed to disclose this, then this fucks the whole timeline up and renders common sense and reasoning that people like us try to formulate and get to the bottom of what really happened useless. If the police cannot be honest in their timeline in such an important investigation as a double homicide, then there's no hope for anybody. There is absolutely no way on planet Earth that Pierre Bidou passed an empty turnout then got the call of the murders as soon as he got to Benicia Police Station, not unless everybody else were travelling on a fast forward time zone. If he genuinely saw no cars in the turnout, then he most certainly passed it before the young couple arrived, that means for certain he didn't go straight to the police department and must have gone elsewhere first, if not a fast food outlet, then somewhere. Maybe they got stoned on the drugs in a Lake Herman Road turnout and took only half the stash back. Just kidding Pierre.

Alex Lewis

9/17/2015 05:56:43 am

"I always found it unusual that in one statement he places the vehicle's 3 to 4 feet apart, describes the Rambler, but remembers absolutely nothing about the second vehicle, not to mention the shot he heard after initially not mentioning it."

Exactly. Now unfortunately for James, He cannot explain the above inconsistencies by claiming too much time had elapsed and these seemingly glaring contradictions and account altering are down this.

Owen First Statement given December 21 (day after incident) at 8:15am. Some 9 hours after the incident take place in which he remembers 2nd car and it's position (even sketching a lovely little drawing to illustrate for us) and at a time when His His recollection is at it's most clear as only several hours have passed at the moment He is recalling the events, doesn't mention hearing any shots fired.

That same evening, 21st Dec, Owen contacted by Responding Officer on telephone with Owen stating fellow Humble Oil Employee Mr P claims not to have driven to work via that route on Lake Herman that night, and the call is terminated.

Owen now lays down a baseline for Fouke and Pelissetti to follow later down the line as Owen gives His second Statement to police:

Dec 24, 12:20pm.

Owen now claims here that his lovey little drawing He and police had created is not really worth the paper it's incorrectly sketched upon and now declares that while He did say 3 days ago the two vehicles had about one vehicle's width between them, it's actually now more like 3 or 4 vehicles width. And James is in the midst offering his apologies when He has an epiphany and wishes to add it to his statement: "Oh yea, I heard a shot fired too. Forgot to mention this in first interview when it would have been a shot heard 9 hours ago from previous evening. . . . " This is why I say it was an Epiphany James had because the definition of which is: 'a sudden, intuitive perception of or insight into the reality or essential meaning of something, usually initiated by some simple, homely, or commonplace occurrence or experience.'

Then James was asked is there anything else He'd like to tell the Detectives....change, add to/take away from, amend or alter before He they end the statement and James says He doesn't think there is but ca't really remember and will need to go home for several days to think about it. The End.

OK, so I may have slightly exaggerated the last bit :-)

I know Mike (Morf) has personally interviewed James years later and James responses to questions were mostly 'Yes' 'No' 'Don't know' etc (that is jst me paraphrasing to make a point to show how short and non elaborating his responses to questions were.) If I were Mike and Owen had agreed to answer a few questions I'd be waiting with polygraph machine.."Have a seat James and my colleague here will hook you up to this device here called A Polygraph Machine, which James, has only one function... LIE DETECTING! It detects lies James! But I know you'll have no objection to James because you are telling us the absolute truth, right?"

Alex Lewis link

9/21/2015 08:10:00 pm

You wanna know what I think explains James Owen's amendment's in the second statement given to police?
Seems to me James went away after giving the first statement and speaks with someone who knows more of the scene and detail, sequence in which shots were fired even, and James tells this mystery man what He had told cops and this person then tells James the 2nd vehicle was not 3 ft away, but much further and more like 10. The shots fired sequence consisted of one initial and single shot fired followed by a minute gap before next burst of shots let loose and these 'updates' are updates given by James based on a 3rd party's corrections who knows things only the offender, or someone very close by to scene, would know

Alex Lewis

9/21/2015 08:23:06 pm

These corrections in the 2nd statement, along with the adding of extra facts etc, were not remembered on the 24th by James who's forgotten on the 21st that He'd heard a shot fired and saw a car in certain postion other than where He had originally stated at all. You don't forget hearing gunshots a fe hours after you hear them when you are aware two teens were shot to death at the time and place you heard the shot fired, only to suddenly have a light bulb go on in your head 4 days later.

Who could have told Him any extra details, or corrected his incorrect vehicle placings? Only one of two people, A Cop who was there (but this couldn't explain the remembering of and extra detail of a shot fired being introduced as cops were not there on scene then) or the killer himself.

Don't forget mind, Prentiss said He did not drive to work Via this route on Lake Herman Rd that night.....as He very likely did all other nights.....He isn't trying to distance Himself and establish an alibi or anything by saying this.
How else can one get to Humble Oil if not via Lake Herman Rd? I see only helicopter as other potential travel option *said with sarcasm*

Richard

9/21/2015 10:20:57 pm

I don't believe James Owen or Prentiss were connected to the murders, however what I do find interesting is the statement above "Bidou and his partner had served a warrant on a Lake Herman Road cabin Dec. 20, 1968, and were on their way to deposit some marijuana in the police department’s evidence locker when they were dispatched back to Lake Herman Road.
Initially, they were told a woman was lying outside a car; they thought they were being sent to a crash. Police at first speculated it might have been a crank call, but the officers headed back north.
But when they arrived, Bidou realized it was no crank call and no car accident. Instead, it was a sinister crime scene."
Who dialed this in, it would mean somebody else other than Stella Borges was aware of the crime scene and the bodies on the ground in the same timeframe. If Zodiac had placed this call, that would mean he called in for each of his first three crimes, only Presidio Heights after the murder was a call then absent and we know why that was, the heat was on after nearly being apprehended.

marcelo leandro

9/7/2015 06:42:11 pm

Dear Richard, I am very happy for the smooth running of your site (for good performance in the ranking "ALEXA"), is the result of your hard work to have a website whose subject however controversial it may be, one approached the case and studied all possible ways, but you my noble friend, always manages to give it a refreshing and new lease of creation and moderation.
This undoubtedly is a direct result of his intelligence, charisma, in which you are largely democratic and genuinely attentive to everything and everyone.
Congratulations my good friend.
I am sincerely happy. And you get more time.
You can always count on me

Marcelo

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 07:28:46 pm

My peformance given a test and score of sort? And my graded result, you say, was an 'A'? I can see why I would be awarded the seal of approvoal, I stop and give thanks to myself sometimes for being me.

But anyway, my always humble nature and personality aside, I wish to address what I see as a misconception,or misrepresented proposed idea. That being, I am or have often been seen to say things that are deemed 'controversial' in nature. If being honest and saying that which you really believe, or stating an opinion that I know won't be popular with the majority, if that is being controversial, then I suppose I shall have to be controversial.

It does, as you point out, stem from a routed belief in freedom of speech and the right to it, without any stipulations placed on it depending on who you are, what you may say and to who you say it. Me, I see all having equal right to say what another may say, but that freedom like any other enjoyed privilage, comes with a responsibility.and common sense approach.

I do have to say it amuses me when I make a statement or comment and someone replies 'I am offended by that remark' as though it should mean something. I can't help how someone else takes and interperets something I may say, and if people decide they are now going to become very offended then I would say I am offended that a hypocrite call Jeremy Kyle and the face belonging to said bloke appears on my tv each morning but I doubt ITV are going to remove him and canel the show if I ring up and tell ITV Producers "I'm offended" becaue you what the'll advise I do?? Switch over or off if Jeremy is offensive to me

marcelo leandro link

9/7/2015 08:21:40 pm

Alex, forgive me for "Quiprocó", I was referring to Richard and the site in rank alexa".http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/http://www.zodiacciphers.com
sorry again

marcelo leandro

9/7/2015 08:25:31 pm

sorry , I wanted to say "quid pro quo" (quiprocó)

Robin Smith

9/7/2015 07:33:11 pm

"It's not what you say Robin, it's how you say it." Mother

Robin Smith

9/22/2015 08:55:08 am

Bill Harrah quote:

"Robin is the only person I know that can make 'Thank You' sound like a swear word."

Alex Lewis

9/7/2015 07:52:08 pm

Robin is that always applicable though Robin?

I mean, if I found myself in front of a firing squad and ordered "Sit down Inmate now, comply with death!" I hardly think my first though is going to be "Well, some people have no manners. Say please and I'll think about it..."
How I am ask/ordered to take the seat will be slightly overshadowed by the fact I am about to be shot to shit. Hehe

Robin Smith

9/7/2015 08:43:12 pm

I've made it through some pretty hairy stuff in my long life;)~

Alex Lewis

9/8/2015 02:50:37 am

No need to apologize Marc, I was just yanking your chain.

Serious Though, I jhad never given mush considerstion watching Chalie Chan at Treasure Island until you posted the link to it Rich and I was almost speechless as to how it was akin to watching an account based on real life events of Zodiac Killer, but the film being made before a full 30 years prior to Zodiac Killer bursting onto the scene.

If it were easy to dismiss with 'Well the Zodiac in 1969 was obviousy a fan and based his kills and the accepted case facts we know today on the films plot' this wouldn't be being written by me.Yet I am and do because there are plot stories, statements, suggestions made and just much seen within the film that Zodiac could not have control over in order to emulate or ensure this would mirror the film plot and yet and it still seems to do just that time and time again. End quotes just to take a coule examples:

"There is another woman here, she is helping Dr Zodiac. She fears him, only his Death can bring Her freedom." Could be recognized as Lass.

"I see another man here, a rival, He has steaked his reputation on unmasking Dr Zodiac." Graysmith maybe?

"There is another, He fears his loss of position because Dr Zodiac has outwitted him." Clearly, Dave Toschi.

"And there's a young man, who believes Dr Zodiac is interfeering with his romance, trying to seperate him from the girl he loves." Obviously, suggestive of David Faraday.

Dr Zodiac is natve of San Francisco, specific reference made to St Francis Hotel also. Dr Zodiac victim is a man named Paul.

This is just some of the astonishing parallels in the plot of CC @ Treasure Island and Zodiac the very real Killer.

Richard

10/26/2015 03:28:45 am

To the right honourable Reverend Welsh Chappie, MBE, OBE, CBE, professor of all things Zodiac I have a question. We both believe Zodiac spoke to the cops, and they pulled a goof. But that would mean Zodiac is a schizophrenic, he boasts about this, highlighting it in the Bus Bomb Letter but what the hell, he will lie about everything else in both letters about entering the park. He has nothing more to gain after already embarrassing them with the so called 'goof' on Jackson Street. Your right honourable Welshness, are you sure it is not presumptuous of you questioning the Zodiac's credibility, when clearly he told you the truth about the police stop in Jackson Street, to now pour huge scorn on his Boston Tea Party in the park. Zodiac would be disgusted by you doubting his letter, when clearly he was telling you the truth all along. Shame on you !

NOBODY IN THE TURNOUT

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