ZODIAC CIPHERS
Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
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"JUST WAIT TILL NEXT TIME"

11/24/2019

 
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Not wanting to just copy the entirety of Ricardo Gomez's article, I suggest you take a look at the article entitled "The Taft Theory" that I believe is the true inspiration for the Riverside Desktop Poem discovered on December 1966. Whether the writing on the desktop was the Zodiac Killer or not, we do know that the writings or thoughts of people are often inspired by previous experiences - and in the case of the Zodiac Killer, things he read in the newspaper. In brief, Rolland Taft was arrested and jailed for the stabbing of a Riverside woman at Riverside City College on April 13th 1965, subsequently reported in The Press and Daily Enterprise on April 17th 1965 under the title Clean-cut Youth Sought For Stabbing and possibly the inspiration for the beginning of the poem and its overall contents. See Ricardo Gomez's follow-up article here.

Despite the Riverside Desktop Poem being diacovered in December 1966, it is unknown when this poem was written. I highly doubt it was authored shortly after the story of the stabbing broke on April 17th 1965 because of its contents on the final line, but suspect it was etched into the plywood desk with a blue ballpoint pen shortly before the murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30th 1966. The newspaper story of Rolland Taft and the stabbing of the young woman at Riverside City College must have been vividly remembered by the Desktop Poem author, which inspired him to create the morbid offering. The writing on the desktop is telling regarding the April 13th 1965 attack, because the poem is reflective upon past events such as "she won't die, this time someone'll find her". The young woman did seek help and ultimately survived her brutal attack. The notion of a copycat killer is nothing new, and it appears that the author of the Desktop Poem may have been one such person.


PictureClick image to enlarge
It is highly unlikely that the author of the Desktop Poem, had they been reminiscing about the stabbing of the young woman and subsequent newspaper coverage, would have been someone other than a Riverside resident at the time of both the newspaper coverage and the authorship of the poem. If this was the Zodiac Killer and he was resident in the Bay Area in 1965 and 1966, then his knowledge of this crime would be slim at best. This person had to have knowledge of the young woman's stabbing a year earlier and must have had access to the Riverside City College library, thereby spanning an extended period. So may have lived locally.  

The reason for believing the Desktop Poem was authored just prior to the murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30th 1966, is not only the reflective tone of the writing, but the ominous projection forward of "just wait till next time" followed by two inscribed alphabetical letters. When you are proclaiming a further attack in similar fashion to the stabbing of the young woman and immediately following it with "rh", one cannot be too surprised when a further knife attack results in the death of another young woman on Halloween eve in Riverside. Hence the attribution of "rh" meaning "riverside halloween". This was the promise of "next time". 

Remember, the author of the Confession letter had suggested he was trying to lure Cheri Jo Bates into his vehicle. This could indicate that he had planned to murder Cheri Jo Bates later than the believed 10:30 pm, when screams emanated from the nearby alleyway - likely on Halloween Day itself - but something clearly had resulted in the unplanned struggle in the alleyway and her 'premature' murder from the perspective of the killer. Had he achieved his objective in luring the young woman into his vehicle, the likely prediction of the Riverside Desktop Poem would have come true. "Just wait till next time. riverside, halloween".

The choice of present tense in writing
"she won't die, this time someone'll find her" rather than "she didn't die, last time someone found her", is indicative of the author reflecting as opposed to claiming the previous knife attack. That was because Rolland Taft was incarcerated shortly after the April 13th 1965 attack and was still in jail at the time of the Cheri Jo Bates murder. The author knew this fact - and why he made no direct claim to the attack on the young woman by using the past tense.

For those believing the Riverside Desktop Poem was authored by the Zodiac Killer, may now be able to place the Bay Area murderer in Riverside as early as 1965, and quite possibly up to April 30th 1967 when the three Bates letters promising even more killing arrived. The Zodiac Killer was an avid reader of the newspapers, often inspired by articles not only about his murders, but other attacks as well. Was this the case during 1965 and 1966 in Riverside?  

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Rubislaw 32 link
11/24/2019 10:11:13 am

Nice highlight on Ronald Taft, Richard.

Well....we are ''getting there'',on complete plagiarizing,in my opinion.

The title attributed to ''Edward Hyde'',British P.M. and Earl of Clarendon.

The ''signing off'' attributed to Charles Schultz,with '' richt hoffen '',a substitute for '' Red Baron''.

And now ''Ronald Taft''.

That's almost half the poem covered.

Thanks to Ricardo.

Richard
11/24/2019 10:35:47 am

Yes, good article by Ricardo - it's clear the content of this poem wasn't plucked out of thin air and therefore was drawn from an experience by the author. Since the author is referring to malicious intent by knife, it was very likely the experience he was drawing upon carried similar traits - an attack using a knife. The verbiage used does suggest he is not referring to something he previously did, but definitely something he was going to do. If the "rh" was a predetermined date for murder, one would have thought the poem was written subsequent to Halloween 1965 and before Halloween 1966. Halloween is a celebration observed in several countries on 31 October, the eve of the Western Christian feast of All Hallows' Day. It begins the three-day observance of Allhallowtide, the time in the liturgical year dedicated to remembering the dead, including saints (hallows), martyrs, and all the faithful departed. Therefore, the author of the poem may have chosen Halloween because he thought it would be a fitting day for murder. A penchant for the dramatic if you will. The poem showed a flair for the dramatic, emphasizing blood, dripping, cutting and draining, so the idea he deliberately chose the festival of the dead to commit his grisly act is not too far-fetched. If it was Zodiac, we know for a fact that he was inspired by things he read in the newspapers. If you couple this with the handwriting and the date of Rolland Taft's attack it makes a good case for Zodiac being a Riverside resident. If you don't believe Zodiac was responsible for the murder of CJB or the writings, then the above interpretations are meaningless.

Richard
11/24/2019 10:48:54 am

What is the betting the stabbing victim in 1965 wore a red dress. If the Desktop Poem author knew this, then surely he must have heard or read newspaper reports stating this fact. Getting hold of newspaper reports from around April 1965 could answer this question once and for all. The author could have chosen a green, blue, yellow or pink dress, but specifically chose "red dress", even above just "dress". He also stated "new dress" indicating that this may have been mentioned in the newspapers. Was the young woman returning home that evening from a special function - something that required her wearing a new dress?

Richard
11/24/2019 10:53:29 am

Or was the "new red dress" just symbolism connected to the colour of blood.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/24/2019 01:52:49 pm

Yes indeed....some interesting thoughts from you there,Richard.

Just harking back to your highlight of the '' 6:30 '' time on Bryan Hartnell's door....to me,it is proof positive that the Zodiac,was accustomed to cutting out,and collecting certain news items,to ''potentially'' employ in hoax/extortion pieces he might write,at a later date.So,the Zodiac may have kept news items involving Taft ( ? ).

I think that the Desk poem,along with the ''confession'' letter and notes to Joseph Bates/Enterprise ''are'' the Zodiac,before officially adopting the persona.

I further believe that the Zodiac had made that Riverside vicinity,his ''home base'',at the time of the murder of Cheri Jo Bates...but was away working abroad,at the time of her murder.So,what we often refer to,as the ''Bates correspondences''....was the Zodiac,catching up on some ''extortion'',on return from his working ''away from home''.

I have made no secret of my belief that,at least,a ''subconscience'' part of the Zodiac,was gearing himself up,at that 1966 time,for a confrontation of one sort or another,with a certain man,with ''persecution'' being an inevitable consequence.

So,any figurative ''blood letting'' in the Zodiac's mind,at that time,might be construed as ''limitless'' anger boiling up,inside of him.

Richard
11/24/2019 02:25:17 pm

I can certainly see the Zodiac clipping his own articles for his personal scrapbook Rubislaw and hence was able to recall details quickly. If him at Riverside, the Taft stabbing must have possibly struck a chord in his early steps into murder. If the Riverside Desktop Poem and Confession Letter was the Zodiac, then his statement of "she is not the first and she will not be the last" leaves us a victim pre-Oct 30th 1966. If not one he perpetrated, another murder involving a stabbing he was hoping would be inferred from the above statement. He did like to plant a seed.

I did consider the 6:30 by knife statement on the car door could have been reference to CJB, who was discovered on Halloween morning by Cleophus Martin at 6:30 - but quickly dispelled the notion because of the Examiner article and Snoozy/Furlong. Although the August 3rd 1969 murders, the Cheri Jo Bates murder, and the Lake Berryessa muder all had 6:30 in common and the only murders he claimed with a knife.

[1] Lake Berryessa 6:30 by knife.
[2] When the girls failed to come home by 6:30, Glen Furlong called police.
[3] It wasn't until 6:30 am the following morning her body was discovered by Riverside City College caretaker, Cleophus Martin.

Four murders by knife, all claimed by Zodiac, all 6:30.

We'll find something extra Rubislaw.

JD
11/24/2019 05:43:04 pm

Not sure you're going to find the answer to the red dress. Not really finding anything on the incident. Doesn't mean someone else won't easily find it. Obviously Ricardo found it. The Roland L Taft (son of the Reverend Taft) of Riverside, listed in the article, really screwed up, though. He married Louise Black at the end of August 1965. So if he was arrested for the crime, it would have been after that date, and not a good way to start out a marriage.

I thought I found an intriguing case involving a stabbing in Riverside back in 1960, the stabbing deaths of Charles and Sylvia Duvall. It was a very brutal case, but turns out former mental inmate David Sieterle, Karl Gentry, and Thomas O'Hara were involved in that crime.

Richard
11/25/2019 01:45:39 am

It's a shame Ricardo didn't clip the entire article. Maybe Rubislaw can ask Ricardo if he still has the newspaper article. Rolland Taft didn't last long anyway - he was shot and killed by police in 1974.

JD
11/24/2019 05:45:21 pm

I missed the extra L. I meant Rolland

JD
11/25/2019 02:04:44 am

Here's one of the few articles. All state he was sentenced to state prison for murder in 1966 and released on parole in 1970.

https://www.newspapers.com/image/606127802/?terms=rolland%2Btaft

Richard
11/25/2019 02:51:47 am

Thanks JD, but that page won't allow me to view it without an account.

JD
11/25/2019 02:06:24 am

Of course, that could be a mistake. Maybe they meant attempted murder.

JD
11/25/2019 03:17:27 am

Basically the officer spotted Taft drinking beer at Peck Park in San Pedro, warned him it was against the law to be drinking in public, questioned him further, Taft became nervous and the officer attempted to handcuff him. When Taft jerk away a concealed .25 caliber auto fell to the ground. The two fought for the gun and when Taft pulled it away from the officer, the officer drew and shot him five times. An undisclosed amount of marijuana was found in the trunk of Taft's car, which may have been one of the reasons he was nervous. That, and public drinking, being on parole with a loaded gun...
The article only mentions the 1966 murder sentence and doesn't go into detail.

Taft's parents sued the department, but I didn't bother to look up any further details as to the outcome. It would have been nice if they had elaborated on the murder he was sentenced for. Whatever the circumstances, he was sentenced within the year after his August wedding.

Richard
11/25/2019 04:01:05 am

Thanks for the information JD. It would be nice to get that Ricardo clipping, especially because of the apparent play on words in the title (clean-cut). Seems a bit too much of a coincidence, and I bet there is other pertinent clues. I don't know whether the newspapers in Ricardo's article would be found in newspapers.com, but that seems our only hope unless Ricardo has retained the entire clipping. It's funny how they refer to these people as clean-cut having attacked a woman and stabbed her. I know the headline would have read something completely different if the person was of colour or different ethnicity. This guy didn't live up to his supposed clean-cut image, and clearly wasn't a likeable guy.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/25/2019 04:52:55 am

Just to emphasise,Richard,that there really is little doubt that '' Just wait till next time r h '',comes from the line :

'' Just wait til next time Red Baron '',in the animated film :

'' It's the Great Pumpkin,Charlie Brown...'' created by Charles Shultz.

The film was originally commisioned for national TV in the US,in 1966.And,was an extraordinary success....with a book and further spin off commisions.And even an inspiration for top selling pop single,''Snoopy vs.The Red Baron''.

The story line is largely about ''regular'' Peanuts characters spending their time at Halloween,and a sideline story about Snoopy taking on The Red Baron,on his flying doghouse.

And further ''perhaps'' solves the mystery of '' r h '',in that it simply completes the line,as :

'' Just wait till next time richt hofen ''....alluding to Von Richthofen,The Red Baron's surname.

On a personal point,this is the Zodiac giving ''his own'' warning to a man,whom he had been misinformed,previously,to be a WW2 fighter pilot ace....but was actually ''only'' someone who had done a little training,as a bomber ''radio op.''.

I think you can guess who ( ? ).

Richard
11/25/2019 05:23:08 am

I'm glad you're even more confident than me Rubislaw. I'll plumb for Riverside, Halloween and you can plumb for Red Baron or "richt hofen". I doubt either could ever be proven unless we discovered the author's identity - which is exceedingly unlikely. No doubt others will disagree with both of us. That is the Zodiac case for you.

Here is some background for others: Manfred Albrecht Freiherr von Richthofen (2 May 1892 – 21 April 1918), also known as the "Red Baron", was a fighter pilot with the German Air Force during World War I. He is considered the ace-of-aces of the war, being officially credited with 80 air combat victories.

Originally a cavalryman, Richthofen transferred to the Air Service in 1915, becoming one of the first members of fighter squadron Jagdstaffel 2 in 1916. He quickly distinguished himself as a fighter pilot, and during 1917 became leader of Jasta 11 and then the larger fighter wing unit Jagdgeschwader 1, better known as "The Flying Circus" or "Richthofen's Circus" because of the bright colours of its aircraft, and perhaps also because of the way the unit was transferred from one area of allied air activity to another – moving like a travelling circus, and frequently setting up in tents on improvised airfields. By 1918, Richthofen was regarded as a national hero in Germany, and respected by his enemies.

On a side note, can you enquire with Ricardo on the full Taft article - it would be great to read it in its entirety. He may have some useful extra information. If you can't, no worries.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/25/2019 05:36:47 am

Thanks...I'll see if I can catch Ricardo at '' ZKM '',where he is administrator,as well as his personal site.

Yes...The Red Baron was a truly extraordinary man....and only finally taken out,by Australian ground artillery....if anyone is interested.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/25/2019 12:09:19 pm

Well,well....another ''little coincidence'',thanks to you,Richard,for which I was previously unaware.

'' The Flying Circus '' is the name of the war veterans site ,for some wings of US bomber squadrons,with some Australian attachments.

No secret really,that I discovered who held the military records of all past and present suspects and POI's involved in the Zodiac case - NCIS Washington.

I was trying to figure out how the Zodiac found out about a particular suspect's death,six weeks ''before'' the media and press were given news.

Well...it was because a ''well oiled machine '' of a government agency ; NCIS Washington ,had posted this information at ''The Flying Circus '',almost immediately.

And,further believe,therefore,that the Zodiac regularly checked on ''The Flying Circus'' website,in order to uncover the death announcement,before interested newspapers in the Bay area,in particular.

Just to make it ''spicey'' for anyone interested,''The Zodiac'' that I believe that I know.....was rushed to hospital,with a suspected heart attack ,on reading the death announcement.

As it happens,the true diagnosis was ''heart palpitations'',and ''Zodiac'' was released from hospital,after about three days of monitoring.

No doubt the shock ( ? ).

Rubislaw 32 link
11/25/2019 04:53:54 pm

Just to add a little to the above...what I consider to be the real reason behind the ''heart palpitations'' was a fear of what Lyndon Lafferty might reveal in his long awaited book.

But,the ''surprise'' really,to those who had some idea what Lafferty was up to was,that Lafferty hadn't actually changed his position,in the case,since 2003....even though the CA DOJ had told Lafferty that WJGrant did not share enough of a convincing match,in DNA,to the Zodiac.

So,Lafferty just stuck with his theory,and ''bemoaned'' the fact that he had been informed that Grant's DNA failed a match,on three out of five major areas.

Well...this had the ''honest'' Lafferty baffled,and ''appealed'' that at least Grant and the Zodiac might share a 40% match.But,the CA DOJ weren't willing to comment further.

Given that a human and a daffodil share nearly 70% of the same DNA structure....then Lafferty was always backing a ''loser'',there.

But I have always sensed that the ''real'' Zodiac feared what Lafferty might come up with.And yes,Lafferty did come face to face with the real Zodiac....but it wasn't WJGrant.

Lafferty just presumed that it had been.

JD
11/25/2019 05:05:02 pm

Okay. I found it. San Pedro, April 24, 1974. They printed a correction. He was not sentenced for homicide. He was sentenced to 20 years in prison in December 1965 for attempted homicide. That is the stabbing of a young woman near Riverside College on April 3, 1965. It says he was arrested several days later. And the wedding date was in July, not August. So, he got arrested for attempted homicide, posted bond, got married, and the rest is history...

JD
11/25/2019 05:44:34 pm

Another case that might be worth mentioning is the murder of Sharon McBride, 24 yrs of age, in March 1966. She and her boyfriend had a slight misunderstanding while at a tavern, he left and went home. She stayed, and later left the tavern on foot at 12:30 a.m., 2 hours before her body was found 6 miles east of Fresno. She had been stabbed 25 times.

https://www.newspapers.com/image/25818291/

Samantha
8/28/2020 01:51:34 pm

Hi, I am the granddaughter of Sharon McBride mentioned above. I have all the newspaper clippings as well as other information regarding her death. In 2010, we had DNA pulled from her pants and it was ran through the federal database with no hits. I want to see if I can have the ex-boyfriend's DNA sampled.. or have it run through something like 23 and me. Please, if you have any advice on how to go about this or open up her case, please let me know! I want justice for her, and my mom.

JD
11/25/2019 06:41:39 pm

I still think the desk poem reads more like a regret of existing with suicidal tendencies. So many live in that gray fluctuation area -- sick of living, but not quite ready to die. Someone who doesn't want to live feeling the way she does, but hoping for some alternative to death. The periods after the words in the beginning tend to create independent notions. Cut (myself), Clean (red dress), Even If (blood is) Red (still clean)... there's that blood spilling all over that new red dress. The red dress she purchased while feeling good about herself, but ruining it with spilt blood the way these feelings are ruining everything else in her life. Doesn't mean the person even tried to commit suicide in the past. The poem might be a way of putting the fantasy / miserable state out there for someone to see. A cry for help. Maybe?

Roger
11/26/2019 04:38:47 pm

Clinches it for me Richard. I now doubt if that desktop poem had anything to do with the death of Cheri Jo Bates or the Zodiac. Just another coincidental folklore relic, of which there are far too many.

BB
11/27/2019 02:50:56 pm

This guy CARROLL EDWARD COLE said

"It was the first time, but it would not be the last."

https://murderpedia.org/male.C/c1/cole-carroll-edward.htm

He was born May 9, 1938 Dali-day
And he chose to be executed on December 6, 1985 also Dali-day

An IQ test administered in February 1953 ranked Cole at the “genius” level of 152

In 1970, he once again surrendered to authorities -- this time in Reno, Nevada -- confessing his desire to rape and strangle women.

His first attempt at murder failed in 1960, he attacked two couples with a hammer as they parked alone in a lovers' lane area.

Cole did not want to be tried in California because - since 1972 they no longer had the death penalty. He would not talk much about his killings that took place in California, and he wanted a non-jury hearing because he wanted to get the death penalty sentence. It's more likely to be given by a judge. So that is probably why we don't know of the probable killings before 1971. It is as though he was beamed up to an alien space ship in the 1960's.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/27/2019 05:06:51 pm

Nice spot BB.How did you come by it ?

Could be that the Confession letter,as with the Desk Top poem,is full of ''scrapbook'' plagiarism ( ? ).

BB
11/28/2019 11:05:19 am

Officially his first attempt at murder though it failed was in 1960. He attacked two couples with a hammer as they parked alone in a lovers' lane area. This and the drowning of the boy in 1946. Proves he was probably killing others, and in ways other than strangling. We could yell at each other til the cows come home. The DNA is all that matters. Peace

Rubislaw 32 link
11/28/2019 01:06:55 pm

Yes,Cole's is quite a story.A terrible childhood that turned him into a monster.

It seems that he could have been spared the death penalty,but wished to be put down,like the sick dog that he had become.

Such tragedies , all round.

''They've'' had the DNA for many years ,with nothing revoked ,since they found it.....so,I cannot for the life of me,understand why others continue to debate this point.

And,I believe,a match,in the last three years.But can they ''convert it'' into a murder conviction ( ? )....and if they decide that they can't,then what else will they settle for,that they can convict the Zodiac for.

And further,will the Zodiac still be alive,when they make up their minds ( ? ).

This truly might become a ''behind the doors'' political decision.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/28/2019 01:38:55 am

Just trying to establish when Carrol Edward Cole said :

'' It was the first time ,but would not be the last ''

Officially,Cole is documented as not having started killing,until 1971.I suspect that he was quoting ''from'' the Bates Confession letter ( ? ).

Interesting that his first wife , Billy Whiteworth ,was a stripper ,in the employment of Jack Ruby.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/28/2019 02:57:17 pm

The latest I have heard on the GSK case is ,that defense and prosecution teams are fighting like ''cats and dogs'' behind the scenes.

The prosecution team believe that they will be ready to go to court,within 5 years (...yes..),with no judicial wise men allowing GSK to be going anywhere,until the prosecution are ready.Clearly,both the prosecution team and the bereaved of vicims hope that GSK's team ''throw in the towel'' and plea bargain,on an admission of guilt,before a case is ready,that would accomodate a ''not guilty'' plea.

Equally,the bereaved of victims ''do'' hope that GSK does not die,before a judicial ''solution'' is reached.

This is what has transpired,by arresting GSK ''before'' the courts were ready for a criminal of such ''prolifigacy''.

I would venture,at this stage that,the thinking behind the Zodiac is,that the authorities ''may'' only consider an arrest ,once a well thought prosecution strategy and judicial purpose '' is'' in place,so that he may be ''processed'' almost immediately after arrest.This would cut down the possibilities of perceived ''prejudices'' and legal ''compromises'' that might come about,through ''media talk''...if his remand period was lengthy.

In the interim,the authorities keep an eye on him,through covert agencies....and subliminally ''telegraph'' him to give himself up,as much as they are able.''This'' on the basis of his likelyhood to plead guilty,for a relatively fast judicial processing.

BB
11/30/2019 04:46:24 pm

Rubislaw 32
It is actually up to the defense when the trial is to begin.
The accused has the right to waive their right to a speedy trial.
Lawyers always advise their client to do so because they are
programmed in law school to drag it out as long as the law allows.
But the accused would be better off never doing that. Because that always favors the prosecution. It bleeds the client
of the defense dry. And gives the prosecutors all the time in the world to get their case in perfect shape for trial. At the time of trial the accused is rendered helpless and has no chance of putting up a fight. It happens every time.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/30/2019 04:58:33 pm

The point being,BB,that the GSK case represents exceptional circumstances.

It may well,and is usually the case thatthe defense have to be ready,but they will have been given dates by,to be ready,and would have to appeal for extensions.

The ''exectional circumstances'' could be construed to be that LE never expected to be in a position ''to'' prosecute a suspect,and it goes without say,perhaps,that defense team can only ''defend'',once a prosecution team is ready to prosecute.

BB
12/1/2019 09:41:31 am

Rubislaw 32
Sorry I may have come across like I was giving a lecture. That was not my wish. What you said was correct but it provoked a response from me that was directed at the subject matter. Not that I was disagreeing or that I was annoyed with you in anyway. I just find the subject matter so frustrating that I don't take into consideration the feelings of others. You are hitting the nail on the head. I am nit picking at the sound that the hammer is making. I should have said that the problem seems to be inept greedy lawyers. They have the leverage and they are not going to give it up. Clearly someone very powerful is going to have to take the power away from them. Only senators, governors and presidents have that sort of gravitas. Peace

JD
11/28/2019 06:22:27 am

Roger, I noticed some of your questions regarding Zlaket in a previous post. I only skimmed, so not sure if you were questioning the items you listed, or if you were mentioning them to make a point. Mary Pat Hautz was in the same class as Zlaket at Pacific High School. There is a 1964 yearbook photo of Zlaket with the name Zodiac written in ink next to his name. I'm sure this is old news floating around the internet; I'm sure I've seen it on someone's site before. Maybe it was on this site. Here is a link if you have an account. Who knows when or why someone wrote the name next to Zlaket's. Could have easily been someone wanting to mess with him as opposed to Zlaket's use of the name.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/1265/31916_b033212-00249?pid=16615293&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=vit67&_phstart=successSource#?imageId=31916_b033213-00094

The Mikado was a staple at the Redlands Bowl, a hop skip and a jump from San Bernardino. Every other year if not yearly. The Mikado flourished throughout California during that time period.

Richard
11/28/2019 07:08:30 am

I was just looking at the Zodiac July 26th Mikado letter and considered whether the Zodiac mailed it on a particular date deliberately, and so making him a connoisseur of The Mikado, rather than a casual theatre goer or having a passing interest. It's a real long shot and I don't really like the marrying of dates to promote theories anymore, because these connections are ten-a-penny, but I thought I'd mention it nonetheless. I noticed that that in one line of The Mikado, the Zodiac quoted "And the lady from the provences who dress like a guy who doesn't cry". The Mikado opened in London on March 14th 1885, but the first provincial production of The Mikado opened on 27 July 1885 in Brighton, with several members of that company leaving in August to present the first authorised American production in New York. I wonder if Zodiac wanted his Mikado letter to feature in the newspapers on July 27th. No reply needed, just thought I'd document this useless bit of information.

BB
11/28/2019 11:13:25 am

Richard

Did you mean he may have wanted history to repeat?

Richard
11/28/2019 04:03:27 pm

I doubt it means anything BB, I was just wondering whether the Zodiac Killer may have had more than a passing interest in The Mikado. Maybe he was closer to the theatre than we care to imagine - after all, he seemed proficient in making costumes.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/30/2019 01:09:54 am

I presume , Richard , that you saw the Mary Pilker died very recently ?

Not so good ,for solving the ''Donna Lass '' conundrum ( ? ).

Since there hasn't been much of a show,on the ''Florez/Powers'' front,one's thoughts turn back to Detective Herminghaus ,and a possible ''problem ongoing'' between the South Lake Tahoe Police ,and the FBI.

Richard
11/30/2019 01:52:37 am

That story appears to have run its course Rubislaw, although one cannot deny the likeness. Unless Detective Herminghaus adds any additional information I cannot see it going much further.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/30/2019 02:37:51 am

Yes,its looking that way.And,one could imagine that CA DOJ would want to '' sit on '' Herminghaus ASAP ( ? ) ( ! ).

Armed with duct tape,for Herminghaus' mouth.

But...there is still Mary Pilker's son,who assisted his mother,to collect Donna's belongings.

The ''problem'',if there is one is ,that Donna Lass represents a real human being,if still alive....and,if the Zodiac is still alive ,and is arrested.......then one might think that he will immediately inform his defense team of ''weaknesses'' in Law Enforcement....like Kathleen Johns and Donna Lass.....perhaps ( ? ).

Rubislaw 32 link
11/30/2019 09:47:44 am

Just to add....a perception of a ''blame game'' going on,behind the scenes with law enforcement....does actually ''augment'' well for a resolution in the case,eventually.

It tends to suggest that ''they'' are aware of ''something'' materializing,and each agency that has ''history'' in the case,wishes to ensure that they will be seen in reasonably good light,when the whole history of the case is written.

This started with the ''pathetic'' and disgraceful attempt by the Riverside Police,to place any blame,over the Bates correspondences ending up in the Post Office Fraud Department's hands.....on ''elderly'' amateur sleuth,Phil Sins.

Historians won't let the Riverside Police get away with that....the Riverside Police knew,all too well that,as a matter of course,any correspondence related to a murder investigation regardless,should have been handed over immediately to the FBI.

A certain ''jockeying for position '' I sense....but when a resolution to the case actually emerges,will ultimately be in the hands of the US DOJ....since,for the most part,the case of the Zodiac Killer,has always really been a Federal one.

Emma
11/30/2019 02:27:41 pm

One thing I have noticed is that after a cold case is solved (by DNA), the press and people instantly suffer from short memories. As we saw with GSK, all past transgressions and failings on the part of L.E. are instantly forgotten and forgiven. A few "heroes and heroines" are named from among the ranks of law enforcement. Once the initial media frenzy and excitement dies down, the entire issue becomes "case closed". I am certain that if any case does persist to haunt Riverside into the future it will most likely be the unresolved case of the Friendly murders. If anyone cares to read up on this travesty of justice they will soon realize that the case was in fact solved by detectives many years ago. But was anyone ever arrested, charged, tried? Short answer, "No".

Rubislaw 32 link
11/30/2019 04:17:04 pm

I note already ,Emma,that GSK is to be prosecuted on his murders alone.

So...any victims raped by him,will have to accept that escaping with their lives,has precluded them from receiving justice.

In principle....a downright disgrace.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2019 01:34:45 pm

I certainly take your point ,BB,and have only respect for you as a regular contributor at this site.

As a general sense,I think that there is added stress to a disappointing year for internet sleuths.

Firstly that it being full of 50th anniversaries surrounding the case,that didn't materialize into something that we can readily hang on to as ''hope'' in finding a resolution to the Zodiac case.

And secondly,the disappointment in events of March 26th,and the failure of influentual figures within the Zodiac internet community to heed the warning given,though not articulated in words....by law enforcement,themselves.

At least,in the case of GSK,there is a good chance now,of a resolution,that should satisfy most interested parties,in finding a form of justice,worth having.

But,in the case of the Zodiac,there are still unknowns and uncertainties.And,a genuine fear that this case will end up in folklore,for good.

We just still have to stick to ''our'' gameplan of pouring over the facts of the case,to find as many ''truths'' as we are able.

Here's to pure sleuthing.....and ''peace''.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2019 02:50:19 pm

If anyone happens to be interested,I did actually appeal to the Zodiac,whom I believe that I know,to give himself up.

To be more precise,I appealed to his wife.This is the second time.The last time,I heard through a third party,that he was threatening to '' sue my ass ''.

I may be mischievous,at times...but I never knowingly offer B.S.

Roger
12/2/2019 01:30:51 am

And what if you are completely and utterly wrong?

Somebody should start a club for those who claim to know or have known the Zodiac. You could be member no. 1056, and they may nominate you as president. :-)

Rubislaw 32 link
12/2/2019 02:18:58 am

What is so wrong in trying ? At least I am prepared to put my ''ass'' on the line.

''Smart Alec'' comments,such as yours,will find you little favour,among the many that seek the truth

Why indeed,are you here,then ?

BB
12/2/2019 11:12:14 am

Roger
You should not be afraid to be wrong.
So much that you never at least try.
I have been wrong a million times.
I try to just wipe the egg off my face and try again.
Only, this time I know something I did not know before.
We err as humans but we can learn from our mistakes.
Other than the Hardens everyone has been wrong.
So far, however, only the Hardens are crack proof.
Have you seen all those Don Harden is Zodiac videos on
YouTube? I don't know who the guy is behind those?
But I think he may have figured it out. I just think that he
would have had to have worked along with a dirty cop or
hit man to do the killings. The descriptions were half of
the time of someone over 40 and the others under 35.
I really can't figure him acting alone. I know his wife is
supposed to have cracked the code. But, she could have
been coxed by him. Bettye was a schizophrenic. Don may
have used her as cover. Pointing reporters and cops to
her as a deflection technique. So to answer their testy
questions that could lead to other things he would
get caught up in. What do you think? Is this nuts?
I am a little worried that you will just tell me how
dumb I am for falling into that rabbit hole. Peace. Take
it easy on me. Still wiping egg off from last venture out.

Richard
12/2/2019 12:15:13 pm

It's obviously up to you BB what you ultimately believe, but I pay no attention whatsoever to those Harden videos. If you disagree with any of the observations he makes you will be met with wrath. It is absolutely inevitable that whoever solved the 408 cipher somebody would be digging into their private life unearthing all sorts of skeletons, perceived or otherwise. Say for example, somebody called Peter Johnson solved the 340 cipher in January 1970, you don't believe somebody would be accusing him of being Zodiac. Richard Hoffman got accused of being Zodiac because he attended the BRS crime scene first, Thomas Horan has accused Hal Snook, Robert Graysmith, Dennis Land and a Chronicle reporter, David Toschi has been accused of being Zodiac, along with just about everyone connected to the Zodiac investigation. I've even read Paul Stine being accused of Zodiac, having been killed by his partner in crime. One word sums this up - ridiculous. What we need is good old fashioned gumshoe evidence, not just a bunch of nonsense dreamt up in the minds of conspiracy theorists. The fact of the matter is, it appears flavour of decade to just snap up people close to the case who haven't yet been accused. If I posted tomorrow a 100% solution to the 340 cipher, verified by every cryptologist, how many days or weeks do you think it would take before I was somebody's pet suspect. Somebody recently accused me of pretending to be American because I write articles in American English. Who you choose to believe on Youtube or anywhere else BB is your right to choose, and that is your absolute right to do so, as is the person on the Donald Harden videos to believe he is Zodiac. I'm just saying, I pay no attention to these groundless claims, because rest assured BB, if you solved the 340 (if it had a solution) you would become the new Zodiac BB.

Richard
12/2/2019 12:19:43 pm

Come to think of it I have been accused of being Zodiac, but I'M GONNA KEEP YOU GUESSIN'! HAPPY HOLIDAYS, ANYWAY".

Richard
12/2/2019 12:42:40 pm

In fact, it's very tiring writing about yourself every day. My next article will be about how I gave you all the cipher solutions in 1970, but I was ignored. And you know how I don't like being ignored. Could you imagine that BB - some people believe Zodiac may have posted on some of the forums - but Zodiac having his own website would be one hell of a turn up. The greatest scam of all.

Roger
12/2/2019 05:28:51 pm

Hi Richard,
How about we both fess up? I was your Zodiac accomplice (I called myself Zaniac backn then, even though neither of us had leanrt how to speak). Somehow we understood one another's baby babble. At 3 years of age I crawled along in my diapers and committed all kinds of mayhem, thousands of miles from where I was born. And oddly you lived many thousands away from me. Somehow we managed it. Take no notice of those skeptical negative Nancies who won't believe us. They are just stupid morons. Haha!

JD
12/1/2019 06:06:52 pm

I wouldn't give up hope just yet, Rubislaw. As you have mentioned with GSK and, as Emma mentioned with the Friendly case, I imagine LE is a lot closer to the truth regarding Zodiac than we are aware of. Maybe. The fact that they haven't revealed anything to the public makes me wonder if ol' Z is still alive. Certainly a lot older than DeAngelo, I would presume. Maybe we'll know something by March 2020?

Rubislaw 32 link
12/1/2019 07:14:28 pm

Fingers crossed,JD....as some are aware,I follow up on what LE seem to be up to,as well as the actual criminality of the case....and can only conclude that they are desperate to for,at least one murder conviction.

Not likely to come from the Bay area...but if a single murder conviction is acheived....then the rest of the Zodiac's crimes might follow beyond,on a plea bargain basis.

Personally,I believe that the Zodiac was responsible for actual death threats against Stanley Kubrick and his family.And,this sort of crime might be a ''next best'' option for prosecution.

But I do think that LE are holding out for ''murder in the first degree'',at present.

(....check out ''Operation Bynum'',as a ''possible''....)

JD
12/1/2019 09:19:18 pm

I just finished reading the BBC report "Who Killed Emma." How very sad. Not just her murder, but how her life spiraled in such fashion as well. But very good point made. So much goes on behind the scenes that one hopes for the right investigators to pick it up and bring it to its correct and satisfactory conclusion.

Barring what happened in Emma's case, if they do have what they need regarding Zodiac, it is important to have all ducks in a row, t's crossed, and i's dotted. And, if he is alive, I do not want to see a repeat of the Arlis Perry case.

Rubislaw 32 link
12/2/2019 02:00:20 am

Yes....the BBC documentary accompanying that report,was ''shelved'' before full viewing,in the UK,and remains unavailable,and without an official explanation from the BBC.

Newspaper reports claim that the Crown Office already know whom they wish to prosecute for Ms.Caldwell's murder,and have known this for more than two years.

It does beg the question of why the suspect is not arrested now,and held on remand until a trial is ready.After all,the implication is that there is a killer on the loose,whose identity is known to law enforcement.

It's dragging on,at a snails pace....that's for sure.

Roger
8/28/2020 05:11:43 pm

The Sharon McBride case is chillingly reminiscent of the Cheri Jo Bates case. Probably not the same perp, but in both cases the murder of a young woman seems like it could have been committed by ex-boyfriends or those within their social circle. I am quite convinced I know who killed Cheri Jo Bates and it took me a lot of years of reasoning to come to that conclusion based on the evidence, but it seems that due to contamination and deficiencies in the DNA evidence and the poor quality of fingerprints that the perp may get to live out the remainder of his days a free man. Let's hope a similar travesty of justice does not befoul the Sharon McBride case. I understand that in that case they have good DNA but have been unable to match it to a perp. The police need to do their jobs and make sure that any possible suspects are re-questioned and submit to a DNA test to rule them in or out.

Samantha
8/28/2020 05:47:30 pm

Hi Roger. I am the granddaughter of Sharon McBride mentioned above. I have seen her mentioned here before, but I recently began digging into her case again. She was murdered when my mother was 2 years old. In 2010, we were able to get DNA off of her pants and had it ran through the federal database.

Many factors point to the ex-boyfriend. I have all the newspaper clippings along with other documents. Do you have any advice as to how we could get this DNA tested against the ex-boyfriend? Any advice how to go about this?

Roger
8/28/2020 06:27:18 pm

Hi Samantha, The only advice I can provide is to keep the pressure on the police. Has a detective been assigned to this case? If so, that is the person to consult, or that person's superior. District Attorneys can sometimes be sympathetic and offer advice. They should at least help you to negotiate the correct legal avenues. Community pressure can also help, as can fresh reports in newspapers. News reports not only refresh people's memories, they highlight the fact that the case has not been forgotten and is still very relevant, and this can cause people to come forward with new information.

Samantha
8/28/2020 07:43:54 pm

Hi Roger! Thanks for your response!! I have a name of a someone from the Fresno County Sheriff's office, along with her case number, from when we spoke with them in 2010. We are nervous to reach out and begin.. I am one year older than my grandmother was when she was murdered. Maybe I should start by calling the Fresno office.. Feel scared to open Pandora's box. But my mom and I are amazed at strangers mentioning her name on random posts.

Her ex-boyfriend lived in the same apartments with her.. I assume after their argument he would have known she would be walking home. The walk probably would have been an hour, with a car, he surely would have been able to catch up to her. Plus, both worked together at the meat packaging company and based on where her body was found, she bled out somewhere else. Also, looking at google maps, the bars, her work, and her apartments are all in a close radius.

Who knows what this will lead to. But we thank you for keeping her story and memory alive. I hope I can share some answers soon...

Roger
8/28/2020 07:53:30 pm

By all means, please reach out to the Fresno office. You should find that they have assigned old but still active cases to a detective. This would certainly be the first step you should make. I can understand the hesitancy you may be feeling right now, but some big positives could come from doing this. Put it this way, the worst that can happen is they will not be able to provide much help. The best that can happen is it may provide a resolution and closure for you and your family.

Roger
8/31/2020 01:49:58 am

Hi Samantha, I would like to have a more in-depth look into this case, if only to prompt some interest from cold case detectives and possibly a few newspaper editors and investigative journalists in the Bay area. I wonder if you can please tell me, what high school did Sharon go to and was she using the name Pedersen or Bertoli at this time. I have searched a number of yearbooks in the Bay area but cannot find her with any certainty. Also, would you know if there is a photo of her online? I would like to get more of an understanding of the case. I have found several newspaper clippings online which were very informative.

Dave
10/5/2020 08:52:45 pm

Hmm, I see there are some possible (though obscure) mob associations here, regarding the "ex" and a meat "bait and switch" racketeering operation which extended across many states from the 1960s through to the 1980s. In all cases the same surname keeps appearing over and over again in the records, and the ex was convicted for playing a part in the very same "bait and switch" racket. Someone on another forum has also noted that the ex was advertising for meat freezer space in one of the states in which the racket re-appeared soon after. This may have had nothing at all to do with the murder of Sharon McBride, but is interesting in the greater scheme of things, particularly if we consider that the ex moved about the country a lot. That same family had "tentative" ties with the Gambino crime syndicate. And Sharon did have an argument with her ex prior to her death. It would be good to know the details of that argument! They were in a tavern at the time. I am sure somebody must have overheard them. And what do we know about the origins of "by gun, by knife, by rope, by fire"? These are mob-inspired prison expressions. They have mob origins, but they also relate to cowboys, which is perhaps the reason why those ideas were used by Tim Holt in that comic book. So if we go by what the Zodiac wrote about, we see clear references to the mob and cowboy western themes. He may have also made one reference to an obscure Bay area cattle brand and this could suggest a circumstantial link to the beef industry. So we have someone in the meat trade who may have been familiar with cattle brands from the Bay area? We can only hope the detectives in Fresno will follow all possible leads that may tie in to the DNA evidence.

Samantha
9/8/2020 03:46:05 pm

Hi Roger, it's good to hear from you again! Thank you so much for your additional response and interest in my grandmother's case. We are fairly certain that she attended Burlingame High School. At this time, her name would have been Sharon A Keefer, as she took a new last name once her mother remarried. I know her sister attended Burlingame, and Carole stayed in the same house until her death. As far as photos go, can I upload them to this site? If not, I can create a google drop box to share some photos. Let me know your thoughts. Thanks again!

Roger
9/9/2020 01:41:21 am

Hi Samantha, If you email the photos to Richard he has kindly offered to forward them to me.
grinsnort@googlemail.com

Roger
9/10/2020 04:34:26 pm

Also Samantha, if the DNA you obtained is good quality and a complete profile, you really should ask the sheriffs office to submit the DNA to Parabon Nanolabs for DNA Phenotyping. This will give them a fairly accurate facial reconstruction of the person from the time, and is very useful in cases where there are no fingerprints. I would consider that a priority, particularly if the test from her pants provided a complete DNA profile of her attacker. https://snapshot.parabon-nanolabs.com/phenotyping

Chad William Burke
9/1/2020 09:25:17 am

Been thinking a lot about this... What if it is a direct reference to Bates?

"Just wait until next time - Research Happens."


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    The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians & # inches along the radians. The code solution identified was Estimate: Four Radians and Five Inches To read more, click the image.
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