IS THE LOS ANGELES TIMES LETTER A HOAX?

6/4/2024

Contra Costa Times, Wed, March 17th 1971

Inspector David Toschi made reference to the Zodiac Killer drawing from Presidio Heights by stating that its significance was overrated and it almost certainly wasted valuable police time chasing down tips based upon it. The sketch today is often argued as an accurate representatiion of the killer by individuals whose "suspect" looks like it, whereas it is rejected as accurate by individuals who see no likeness. Undoubtedly, many calls were received by police from concerned citizens who believed they had spotted the Zodiac Killer walking around town, with these calls more prevalent subsequent to recent newspaper coverage about him.

One major story about the Zodiac Killer broke in the San Francisco Chronicle on November 16th 1970 about the connection to the Riverside murder of Cheri Jo Bates in 1966. Four months would elapse between this story and the mailing of the Los Angeles letter from Pleasanton on Saturday, March 13th 1971, which hit the newspapers on Tuesday, March 16th 1971 On March 18th 1971 a woman working at a Dublin, California store claimed she rang police on March 11th 1971 about sighting a man who looked just like the Zodiac sketch, but her phone call to Santa Rita police was ignored. Unfortunately, this claim was made after the newspapers released the breaking news of a new Zodiac letter - and with no record of the March 11th 1971 call - this could have easily be dismissed as a woman piggybacking off renewed Zodiac activity. However, an Alameda County sheriff's offiial confirmed that numerous calls were received the weekend before the recent Zodiac letter was published in the newspapers, from persons saying they had spotted the Zodiac Killer in the Dublin area. The Google map location of Dublin is shown as 4 miles north of Pleasanton, where the Los Angeles letter was postmarked. This distance is irrelevant in this case because the two cities actually border one another.

CLICK IMAGE TO ENTER GOOGLE MAPS

The police received many phone calls from American citizens claiming they had seen the Zodiac Killer wandering about town, but in this instance there were "numerous calls that poured in" from the Dublin area at the exact time a Zodiac letter was postmarked from Pleasanton, which sat alongside the city of Dublin. Every single Zodiac letter (according to many esteemed Zodiac researchers) was postmarked from San Francisco in 1969 and 1970, until this letter broke with tradition. Downtown Dublin is situated 40 miles (about 50 minutes journey time by car) from San Francisco, from which "numerous people" called in Zodiac sightings over one weekend, as a "confirmed" letter arrived at the Pleasanton sorting office from the Bay Area murderer.

There are four viable options. [1] The Zodiac Killer was in the Dublin area and was spotted by numerous independent individuals who contacted police, [2] Somebody who looked like the Zodiac Killer sketch was in the Dublin area and was spotted by numerous independent individuals who contacted police. [3] The Zodiac Killer made the phone calls for self-publicity (negated if the calls were established as different people), or [4] The numerous individuals who rang the police were known to one another and manufactured a story that they saw the Zodiac Killer in town, while simultaneously mailing a letter from neighboring Pleasanton and fashioning a hoax. In other words, the Pleasanton letter has nothing to do with the Zodiac Killer. Alternatively, could it be possible that the Zodiac Killer sketch was that accurate, it generated numerous calls from the public, who recognised the Zodiac Killer in Dublin the weekend he mailed the Los Angeles Times letter? As stated previously, sightings of the Zodiac Killer in public were not unusual, but in this instance we had "numerous calls that poured in" from a location 40 miles east of San Francisco, four months after any notable Zodiac activity, in one weekend, when a "confirmed" Zodiac letter was mailed from the neighboring city of Pleasanton.

CONTRA COSTA TIMES, THURSDAY, MARCH 18TH 1971

Rubislaw32 link

6/4/2024 03:25:49 pm

Is the L.A.Times letter a hoax ? Confirmed authenticity from CA DOJ - but still worth asking the question, Richard.

I believe it was authentic Zodiac, with postmark date March 13th 1971 - the 1st anniversary of the known makeshift burial of Judith Hakari, by three men yet identified.

The compulsive extortionist in the Zodiac, couldn't resist a letter in response to now knowing that some Bates-related correspondences were being eyed up by law enforcement. A bit of teasing bravado from the Zodiac, toying with them now, as to whether there were more - or indeed, bodies as well.

Note that with the L.A.Times letter, the Zodiac is claiming ''17 plus'' such bodies. Then, just 9 days later, the FBI facilitated by the SF Chronicle, lay claim that Zodiac has sent a postcard (Pines) banging on about seeking victim ''12''. Surely a contradiction there, alone ?

If CA DOJ ever get to question the Zodiac, I believe they will only be interested in one question, in particular, as a priority:

''Did you murder Reet Jurvetson ?''.

Anything to do with Hakari, Lass and Bates (with all due respect) can wait.

Richard

6/5/2024 12:52:44 am

As you know Rubislaw I don't subscribe to the confirmed authenticity claims of 50+ years ago by handwriting examiners. Although I do believe the Los Angeles letter is genuine (and have never shifted on that) we have to give reasons why, other than I was told so. There were people calling in sightings of Zodiac back in the day but I just thought that "numerous" sightings over such a short period carries more weight. Was it an orchestrated prank for example?

The 17+ could easily have been an added Hakari, Lass and Kanes, with the + sign meaning more down south. I don't see any contradiction in the victim totals - he claims 3 extra victims beyond the Halloween card and 9 days later indicated that he sought Donna back in San Francisco, thereby tying South Lake Tahoe to San Francisco. However, if you don't believe Donna was the inspiration for the Pines card, then never the Twain shall we meet Rubislaw. But I certainly agree that the Los Angeles letter is genuine, but I do find it odd that people just accept authenticity for communications without ever giving a good reason why. And I don't mean handwriting and tone, which means absolutely nothing.

When we all get into the Zodiac case for the first time we are subtly indoctrinated into what the consensus beliefs are. This goes for the vast majority of people, who just accept what has gone before. That is why the Los Angeles letter creates no resistance in the minds of people when looking at it. When you present a letter such as the 1986 or 1987 letter to people, they automatically adopt a resistance to not wanting to believe it's genuine because of the consensus view they have adopted as the default position. In other words, they adopt a negativity in their approach to certain letters over others. But can never give a valid reason why the communication in their eyes is not authored by Zodiac. And again, handwriting and tone is not a valid answer.

It's the same concept when having a suspect. Ross Sullivan died in 1977, so do you think there is any point whatsoever in asking a staunch Ross Sullivan advocate whether they think the 1978, 1986, 1987, 1990 and 2001 communications are genuine. Even if they had never seen them, they are going to reject them. They will adopt the air of impartiality and look at the later letters but you know that their mind will have an automatic resistance to accept them. And they never will. Ask anybody to give one good reason why is the Los Angeles letter from Zodiac? But yes, Rubislaw, I do believe it's genuine and it's not because I just looked at it.

Richard

6/5/2024 01:07:27 am

Cragle (and a handful of others) have offered a good reasoned argument why the 1978 letter may not be from the Zodiac Killer by offering alternative authors such as Graysmith or Toschi, but as yet no compelling evidence why it is extremely unlikely to have been penned by Zodiac. These alternatives are possible, but so is Zodiac. .

Rubislaw32 link

6/5/2024 02:34:53 am

Very well articulated position, Richard, and I read through your comments three times, to be sure of understand where you stand on this.

One important inference drawn from the L.A.Times letter, I believe, not often voiced is : If the letter (March 13th 1971) is authentic, that the likelihood is the Zodiac was then L.A. vicinity based, as a primary home. i.e. no longer any residing ties with the Bay area, and Vallejo vicinity, in particular.

So (?), by March 13th 1971, the Zodiac had left the Bay area. But, the Pines Card claim of arrival at SF Chronicle offices, then on March 22nd 1971 - provides another conundrum to grapple with.

In addition, if we hark back to the Bates murder - then the Zodiac would appear to have had previous ties with the L.A. vicinity (Riverside area), circa Autumn 1966.- Spring 1967 - just on Bates related correspondences, alone.

All this aside - I believe the Zodiac moved primary home to the L.A area in Aug/Sept 1969 - although continuing to work in the Vallejo vicinity. His breaks from work (long weekends etc) spent in his new set-up home in L.A.. And, this puts him in line as a suspect for Reet Jurvetson, Mulholland Ave L.A., November 14th 1969. Jurvetson aka Jane Doe 59 - an L.A. victim, known regular hitchhiker, and subjected to a frenzied knife attack.

The Zodiac's ''8th victim claim'' - but was she his 6th real victim ?

Richard

6/5/2024 03:21:03 am

As you possibly remember I did a piece on her murder down south. While I don't believe she is a Zodiac victim, she cannot be 100% ruled out. Zodiac was claiming 8 victims prior to December 20th 1969, so he certainly was insinuating somebody, whether it be Reet Jurvetson, Elaine Davis or Leona Roberts. But if the 7 drops of blood on the Dripping Knife of Zodiac drawing were significant, then number 8 had to be killed between December 16th and December 20th. Neither Fairfield letter upped the count. But if one doesn't believe the authenticity of the two Fairfield letters, then the above reasoning is irrelevant. Without evidence of any notw, it is easy to conclude victim number 8 was pure fantasy in the mind of Zodiac. There are many connections to Los Angeles including two of the 1978 letters, so a shift in resistance is not beyond reason (or a second home for that matter). He could have roots in LA. Whatever the case, the 6th victim is doubtful to some, but certainly not to others. I doubt we could ever prove it one way or another in 2024. I never believed the Zodiac case would be solved 12 years ago, and I'm less optimistic now.

Rubislaw32 link

6/5/2024 03:58:25 am

Yes - I tend to go along with you on the improbability of the Zodiac actually murdering Reet Jurvetson. At the time of the Zodiac's (definite ?) San Jose letter of November 21st - there had been no media mention of Reet's (Jane Doe 59's) murder. But - her investigators on November 16th, had been very quick to put up fly-posters seeking public assistance for information related..

I believe that the Zodiac, ''back home'' now in the L.A. area had spotted a fly-poster while driving around - and noted the potential for him of using Reet as an ''8th victim claim''. She ticked boxes for him, at the time - the ''Hollywood'' angle, as well as a knife victim - and wanted to tease that he might be moving his ''terror operation'' to L.A..

But - soon after sending his San Jose letter & cryptogram, the Zodiac realized that it had likely been suppressed from public eyes. This made him very depressed - and the subsequent 2 Fairfield letters & 2 ''Day-by-Day'' forecast cut n' pastes - all in December 1969, sees the Zodiac up and down in temperament ''like a yo-yo''..

A true manic depressive - who had also run out of guns. But, also one (?), who had only recently moved primary home to Los Angeles.

Rubislaw32 link

6/5/2024 09:07:10 am

For me, Richard, it's the fullness of the San Jose letter & cryptogram, which I have wanted to see made public, more than any other Zodiac missive. To date, we have only been informed of snippets from it, through the FBI's Zodiac Killer files.

From accounts, the San Jose PD took the threat to a ''widow'' very seriously, and believe that it was Diane Kennedy Pike - who may still be oblivious to the fuss made about her. It's as if San Jose PD knew immediately, that the threat should be taken seriously, and was from the Zodiac.

Real Zodiac ? How ? There have been reports that the missing piece of Paul Stine's bloody shirt, would have accounted for 4 swatches. And yet only 3 (?) have been accounted for.

Could be (?) that the November 21st 1969 San Jose letter & cryptogram was accompanied by the '' 4th swatch'' - making the Zodiac so sure that the missive would be published. And, so disappointed that it wasn't.

Rubislaw32 link

6/5/2024 09:36:58 am

I suspect that the Zodiac only finally got his revenge on the FBI, to his satisfaction, with the 1234567 on the Channel 9 envelope of May 2nd 1978. As if the Zodiac was saying to them: '' What's wrong with you jokers - can't you even count to 8 ? ''.

And that, as well as Melrose Ave, ties in with Reet Jurvetson, who rented a room at a cheap hotel neighbouring Paramount Studios.

Rubislaw32 link

6/5/2024 10:57:29 am

Some might argue: ''What's all the fuss, if his 8th victim claim was a lie, anyway ? ''.

I would say that the fuss is, that he chose a victim from Los Angeles.

And, if I dare add - the Zodiac's inferred claim in the the Scotch Tape letter was ''probably'' Brenda Page, an Aberdeen, Scotland resident (July 14th 1978)..

Just maybe (?), a homing in on the Zodiac's primary residences at given times.

Richard

6/5/2024 11:01:06 am

Cragle searched for recently widowed women prior to November 21st for me and found the best candidate. I knew Zodiac wasn't going to target Mrs Smith from nobody street, he wanted attention for his threat, and the best way of achieving attention is to target somebody well known. It had to be somebody well known because police gave them 24-hr protection. What did lowly Daniel Williams get after being stalked for 2 weeks, threatened with being shot, his house being broken into, and his attempted murder with arsenic. He didn't get 24 hour protection just a few extra patrols. Diane Kennedy Pike was pretty well known through her outspoken husband, who had recently died in the desert. We don't know for certain it's Diane, but if it is, a FOIA would fail because she is still alive. I left her a Facebook message about 2 years ago but nothing.

Rubislaw32 link

6/5/2024 11:08:23 am

That's interesting that you left her a message, albeit not returned.

Until someone comes up with a more convincing claim, I think Cragle has found the right widow.

Rubislaw32 link

6/5/2024 04:54:44 pm

A further aspect that has occurred to me, Richard, regarding Reet Jurvetson - and her ''candidacy'' as the lie (?) that the Zodiac selected for his ''8th victim claim'' in the San Jose letter:

I recently read up on everything I could about her murder, and related investigations in recent years. Now seemingly, a joint project with CA DOJ and LAPD. No further fortunes, unfortunately, as of the last two years. But, still trying to solve it.

The sketch of Reet used for the initial fly-poster is widely available to view. BUT - with no wording available, that went with that fly-poster. Could be (?) that in the San Jose letter, CA DOJ realize now, that the Zodiac could have only have known certain info on her murder, at that early Nov 21st time, by reading the wording that went with the fly-poster. Therefore - the Zodiac would have had to be ''on the spot'' in the vicinity of the Mulholland Drive vicinity of Los Angeles - to have known certain ''early info''.

In February 2015, Lord Advocate of Scotland Frank Mulholland announced the re-investigation of Brenda Page (subsequently a successful conviction, as a result). For ''Jane Doe 59'', who turned out to be Reet Jurvetson - investigations jointly by CA DOJ.& LAPD started in June 2015 - just over three months after Brenda Page's, in Scotland.

Richard

6/6/2024 03:32:15 pm

The only problem I have with Zodiac claiming involvement in Reet's death (not identified back then) is his failure to up his count on December 7th and 16th, along with the seven drops of blood from the knife. The only victim that possibly fits December 16th to December 20th as victim 8 is Leona Roberts. She was also connected to the Zodiac phone call through the Tormey Avenue address. To me, this outweighs anything else to date. Nothing in the November 21st letter points to Reet, but for speculation it might. Her address was interesting bearing in mind the May 1978 letter many years later, but that is it unfortunately. .

Richard

6/6/2024 03:44:58 pm

We have to ask the question, did November = 8 indicate (like the Nov 8th card using the months = 7) an already claimed 8 victims, or was he implying Diane Kennedy Pike was to become his 8th victim before the month was out. Because she wasn't murdered, realistically leaves number 8 unaccounted for between November 21st and December 20th.

Rubislaw32 link

6/6/2024 05:36:51 pm

Certainly all pertinent points to consider, Richard.

The only ''thing'' against, in my book to date, is that there are indications that Leona Roberts was held against her will for a period of time. The ''quick kill'' appears always to have been in the Zodiac's remit. And, I believe the only body he ever became attached to was Joan Webster's (strike me down if I am wrong).

For Reet Jurvetson, beyond reasonable doubt from investigative reports that have been offered: Her death came from a perpetrator pinning her down through strength and/or body weight - then inflicting multiple stab wounds with a knife. After death, her body was placed in the back seating of the perpetrator's car. The car then driven to a lay-by on Mulholland Drive. The perpetrator then dragging her body out and around to the boot end of the car, before pushing it down an embankment. A pair of spectacles was found close by the point of entry of Reet to the embankment - that may or may not have belonged to the perpetrator - who likely performed the manoeuvring of her body in the dark.

It;s likely the perpetrator rid himself of Reet's body ASAP.

I would think that investigators still don't know enough to exclude the Zodiac as the possible perpetrator. But from what I've read, perhaps only a 20% chance that it was him.

But I believe, close to a certainty that Reet was Zodiac's ''8th victim claim'', and likely a deceitful one. And, putting him in the picture of having become an L.A. resident at that time.

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IS THE LOS ANGELES TIMES LETTER A HOAX?

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