ZODIAC CIPHERS
Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
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"I JUST WASHED MY PEN"

7/19/2018

 
Picture
There are many ways to interpret the Dripping Pen card mailed to the San Francisco Chronicle by the Zodiac Killer on November 8th 1969 and here is another. ​Some people use the 'evidence of absence' argument to suggest the Lake Berryessa attacker was not the Zodiac Killer - articulating that his lack of mailed correspondence after the double stabbing was evidence for his absence from the crime scene. ​His communication on the car door just six minutes after the attack, probably to him, seemed like unassailable proof he was placing himself at the crime scene, just like inserting a piece of Paul Stine's shirt in his October 13th 1969 letter.

​At Lake Berryessa he took his handwriting to the crime scene, while at Presidio Heights he took the crime scene to his handwriting. A reverse signature one might say. However, not many people question Zodiac's involvement in the murder of taxicab driver Paul Stine. The idea that the Zodiac Killer never communicated his involvement in the Lake Berryessa crime is patently false, despite our need for a more comprehensive attribution to the events of September 27th 1969. Yet, his correspondences on October 13th 1969 and November 8th 1969 may very well have both referenced the Lake Berryessa attack, but in different ways.

The author of the October 13th 1969 Paul Stine letter opened with the words "This is the Zodiac speaking. I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St + Maple St last night, to prove this here is a blood stained piece of his shirt. I am the same man who did in the people in the north bay area". The Zodiac Killer on the car door of Bryan Hartnell's white Karmann Ghia clearly attributes both of his first two attacks under the banner of Vallejo, despite the fact David Faraday and Betty Lou Jensen were murdered in Benicia. In fact, the Zodiac Killer never referenced Benicia in any of his communications, while he mentioned Vallejo several times. If the Zodiac Killer played no part in the Lake Berryessa attack, then his above introduction could have read "This is the Zodiac speaking. I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St + Maple St last night, to prove this here is a blood stained piece of his shirt. I am the same man who did in the people in the Vallejo area". However, he chose to use the "north bay area" for the first time, which incorporates the Napa and Sanoma wine regions. ​

Picture
Despite the claims that an impostor could have faked the Lake Berryessa phone call to mimic Zodiac's rhetoric of the Blue Rock Springs call, by reading the transcripts widely publicized in the newspapers, it appears the copycat would then fail to read the newspapers of the Benicia attack, and bundled both attacks under the banner of Vallejo on the car door, in complete harmony with a Zodiac Killer who always failed to document the simplest of facts - that his first crime was perpetrated in Benicia. The implication being, they are one and the same person.
​
The divergence from Vallejo in the October 13th 1969 Stine letter confession, therefore proof of his admission to the Lake Berryessa attack. The Zodiac Killer would then further indicate his involvement in the attack by the lake, in the cryptic November 8th 1969 Dripping Pen card communication, not only by the addition of "Sept"  in his running victim count, but possibly through the image he chose on the card and the wording contained within it. The style of the card may have been purposely chosen in reference to the Lake Berryessa attack, and mailed in unison with the 'November 9th 1969 Bus Bomb letter which elaborated upon his recent murder.

On October 18th 1969, Attorney General Thomas C. Lynch implored Zodiac to turn himself in, stating "We will see that he gets help and all his rights are protected. He is obviously an intelligent individual. He knows that eventually he will be taken into custody, so it would be best that he give himself up, before tragedy is written in blood". Three weeks later, the Zodiac Killer mailed a greeting card, depicting a fountain pen having been washed by its owner. The card itself read "Sorry I haven't written, but I just washed my pen...and I can't do a thing with it." Zodiac then added the words "This is the Zodiac speaking. I though you would nead a good laugh before you hear the bad news. You won't get the news for a while yet. Could you print this new cipher in your frunt page? I get aufully lonely when I am ignored, so lonely I could do my Thing".

PictureClick to enlarge
It is clear the Zodiac has simply parroted the word "thing" from the prewritten wording on the card, and began to write the letter 'T' in lower case. It is equally probable the Zodiac wrote the entire word "thing" in normal writing, before emphasizing it in bold fashion, to highlight its importance. ​The phrase "and I can't do a thing with it" is referring to a pen that now cannot be used, having been damaged by water. This is often taken as a pen accidentally left in clothing and washed, but it may very well have a more sinister implication. 

The threat of "I could do my Thing," is obviously referencing murder - but by parroting the word "thing" from the card, which is explicitly referencing the pen, the Zodiac Killer may be associating the pen with murder. More specifically, the murder of Cecelia Shepard. The Zodiac Killer's dominant hand would certainly have been covered in blood after the Lake Berryessa double stabbing, so any pen subsequently used to write on the car door would equally have been smothered in blood, thereby making the November 8th 1969 Dripping Pen card depicting a washed pen, not an unusual choice by the killer. The killer may have worn gloves and removed them before writing on the car door, but the implication of the card remains. 
​
The six exclamation marks after the word "Thing" are as notable, as they are excessively repetitive. The Zodiac Killer has also deliberately or accidentally underlined the word "Thing" exactly six times. These two characteristics may be purely unintentional on behalf of the author, but considering the Zodiac Killer is claiming 7 victims at this juncture, it would be remiss of me not to mention that the Lake Berryessa murder of Cecelia Shepard would have been the Zodiac Killer's sixth victim. One theory behind the origin of the exclamation mark, is that it is derived from a Latin exclamation of joy, which may not have been lost on a killer bereft of empathy. 

Rubislaw 32 link
7/19/2018 01:33:50 pm

Virtually everything in this article,Richard,speaks of truth and genuine Zodiac.

The North Bay Area is undoubtedly a reference to Lake Berryessa,and ''Benicia'' remains conspicuous,by its absence.

Two small observations,with the Dripping Pen card,to add,perhaps :

The derivation of ''I've just washed my pen'' seems to allude to ''I've just washed my hair''....which is an expression that women,with long hair used to use,to cover a multitude of excuses,with ''hair washing'' being a major event of the week,including its drying and grooming.

What appears apparent is that Zodiac originally wrote ''Thing'',as ''thing'',then accentuating and emphasising it ,using a capital ''T'' and layering it with more ink.

Perhaps the exclamation marks,and underlining,was then added,for ''stand out'' effect [?].

Richard
7/19/2018 02:01:21 pm

Certainly, I appreciate the exclamation marks and underlining may have nothing to do with a particular victim total and created solely for the attention of the observer. This is probably the likely answer, but it was worth mentioning for consideration. I would like to nail down the "Aug" reference, but keep returning to Furlong and Snoozy. I'm not sure how strong the evidence is against Karl F Warner, but other than the Leno and Rosemary LaBianca murders on August 9th, later attributed to the Manson family, it keeps drawing a blank for me. I'm sure Zodiac was pretending to have murdered somebody in August.

Tom
7/19/2018 08:57:32 pm

Hope not to burst anyone’s bubble but LB was never considered to be any part of the Bay Area. I grew up in the Bay Area and fished LB inumerable times. Vallejo is definitely North Bay.

Tahoe27
7/20/2018 10:02:35 am

I agree, Tom. No way. No mistaken Berryessa for the North Bay. All you have to do is drive to the Lake to lose any association.

Tom
7/19/2018 09:15:10 pm

You nailed the hair washing part, but LB has never been considered to be part of the “Bay Area”.

Rubislaw 32 link
7/19/2018 11:20:22 pm

One could look at this Zodiac reference [ North Bay Area ],as writers,such as Mark Hewitt,have noted,Tom :

That,it is an example of Zodiac ''not'' being from that area,originally,but trying to get away with sounding as if he does,with a ''casually put'' reference that,as you say,is inaccurate.

Zodiac appears to do this elsewhere,when he mentions ''The San Fran Bay Area''.

Anyone,born and bred,or a long time resident of ''The Bay Area'',would never say ''The San Fran Bay Area''.

I would suggest that Zodiac perceived Vallejo,as part of ''The Bay Area'',and Napa as part of ''The North Bay Area''.

He was an outsider,wrestling with correct terminology.

Sigmund
7/20/2018 04:51:00 am

I tend to think that everything the Zodiac could see from the top of Mt. Diablo he considered his domain.

KayElleSF
7/19/2018 03:01:49 pm

This notion that the LB crimes were done by a Zodiac copycat is nothing more than a silly meme. The "argument" that just because an event employs a degree of variation, it should be wholly discounted (and replaced with a ludicrous alternative theory) is at best, a sign of poor critical thinking and at worst, plain old trolling.

Thank you, Richard, for pushing back on theses "nouveau theorists". They're merely a step or two up from the flat-Earthers, imho.

Sigmund
7/20/2018 04:52:23 am

Well said KayElle!

Sigmund
7/20/2018 05:49:43 pm

*Sigh* I am glad most detectives are more open minded than those who hold derived "opinions" on forums. You only have to read back at all the online theories about GSK, most of which have turned out to be wrong. But at the time the posters were certain they were in possession of all the facts. DNA always says much more than biased and formulated online opinion. ;-)

Tahoe27
7/20/2018 09:58:44 am

I have to disagree KayElleSF. Critical thinking sometimes means stepping outside the box, not just taking things at face value. There is plenty to question about Lake Berryessa.

Valid questions have been brought up and clearly explained why they are worthy of discussion. One has to look at this LB with an open-mind and be willing to evaluate what makes some of us question it. I too, used to not even begin to question it as a Zodiac crime. It was THE Zodiac crime. But, after years of evaluation of this case, have come to a different conclusion...far from trolling. ;)

On a side note, while Napa may be considered "North Bay", no one would ever say that of Lake Berryessa. Drive there...you'll know why.

Rubislaw 32 link
7/19/2018 03:09:20 pm

Absolutely understood,where you are coming from,on the ''presentation'' of ''Thing'',Richard.

Funnily enough,I have something similar,in my possession.A birthday card alluding to the coincidence of achieving 55 years of age,and a specific speed limit of 55,for regular roads and highways.

All dressed up,with exclamation marks and underlinings...just like the Dripping Pen card.

Yes,that specific time in August,with the Tate/La Bianca murders,coinciding with The Hardens' ''408'' solution published,and the V.P.D. receiving the cipher keys from the ''concerned citizen''.

One evening Sgt.Lynch was checking the Hardens' solution,at the offices of the SF Chronicle....the next day he was confronted with ''Zodiac's'' solution.

Looks like it was a traumatic time for the Zodiac ?

The combination of humiliation over the ''408''....and the new threat of a breaking news story [....the Tate/LaBianca slayings...] that promised to kick Zodiac off ''first billing'' in villainy,with the local newspapers.

Zodiac would have to spend his energies focused on ''strategy'' to maintain his terror momentum,and,as a consequence,''Lake Berryessa'' didn't come about,until late September.

BB
7/19/2018 04:06:44 pm

Numerology specifically here germatria
t=20 r=18 o=15 y=25
Added together=78

Take the "6" alluded to in the letters 6 exclamations
Times the Zodiacs favorite number 13 and get 78

Zodiac adds up to 58
t=20 Together it's 78

The letter "t" could be the first letter of his name.
Paradice Slaves design makes a large "t"
Possible reference to Troy Houghton

Troy's saying was "13 bullets"
referring to the time he shot a girl's car putting 13 holes in it
He often bragged of being an agent for the CIA.
Before he went underground he faked his death with his wife and
Minutemen as cohorts.

Rubislaw 32 link
7/19/2018 06:02:03 pm

Interesting about Troy Houghton's ''13 bullets'',BB.

Particularly in relation to the ''cut and paste'' 13 holes card,in October 1970....which lead up to the Halloween Card,and its 13 victims ''to date'' inference,about three weeks later.

I'll go back again to the minutemen.Even though I'm more inclined to Ron Karenga's ''Organization US'',as the predominant problem for The Black Panther Party.

Compromised Black Power vs.White ''Rotary Club'' Supremists [?].

Could be a difficult call,on Zodiac influence [?].

Tom
7/19/2018 09:11:53 pm

Don’t have a horse to ride in this quandry, but was he a left wing radical or a person opposed to a perceived threat to American Society?

Rubislaw 32 link
7/19/2018 11:49:54 pm

This is a valid point,indeed,Tom.

Personally,I believe Zodiac was actually ''neither''.

Not wholly ''apolitical'',perhaps....but someone who wished to sound as as if he saw both sides of the fence....for Zodiac wanted to put across that he was a man of the world,and of a number of years of maturity,standing.

Zodiac,I believe,was well educated,but younger than many might perceive.

Physically,he was probably mistaken for being older....but in his writing,he was passing himself off,as a wise man.This,he could do,by staying in touch with current affairs,and reading daily editorials,in the newspapers.

I put Zodiac at ''25'',in 1969.I think that he was happy to not be part of the hippie movement,like many of his contemporaries.

But,he still enjoyed the popular culture.

BB
7/22/2018 04:28:53 pm

Tom - Not sure if you were referring to:
Ron Karenga - Left
Troy Houghton - Right
The Zodiac - unkown
So I put all of them for you.
By the way - What just came to me is
possibility for the {In your face letter "t"}
Tarrance would make more sense than
Troy because we tend to get an ID for
someone from their last name not first
Jack Tarrance, Born February 24th 1928 in Lubbock Texas
Served in both the Navy and the Air Force.
He wore size 10.5 boot
He was a hunter.
He is the only suspect to confess
His confession is recorded.
According to cops there is a high likelihood the suspect
Used a HAM or CB radio as Jack did.
http://thezodiackiller.digitalzones.com

Shelli
7/20/2018 01:58:24 pm

Rotary club met weekly at Terry's.

Karen C
7/20/2018 04:34:27 pm

Rotary Club? I always love it when people present a vague singular title or idea, as if is somehow meant to signify a great deal. What do mean precisely by "Rotary Club met weekly at Terry's". I am sure bowl's clubs met weekly at some place too.

Rubislaw 32 link
7/22/2018 05:00:19 pm

Really good,BB,that you put in the work,and come up with all this information.It allows you to venture down avenues of possibilities.

Don't let others,put you off.They are usually ''windbags'',that just sit on a wall,believing themselves to be wise owls.

They couldn't be more wrong,for it becomes all too apparent how little research,or actual investigative work,they are willing to do.

I won't comment on Jack Terrance,since it does seem that L.E. were pretty certain,early on that he was just someone,who self-perpetuated being the Zodiac,by leaving false clues around,to be discovered,after his death.

It seemed to appeal to his warped ego.

But Ron Kerenga,is I believe,certainly of note.

Claude Hubert,an ex-FBI agent,is known to have been the assassin of BPP leaders Bunchy Carter and John Huggins,at UCLA Campbell Hall,on January 17th 1969.

But there were three ''decoy'' men also...George and Larry Stiner,and Donald Hawkins.All three were subsequently found guilty of conspiracy to commit murder....and,all three were members of Ron Karenga's ''Organization Us''.

This whole episode ended up uncovered,in my solution to Zodiac's ''340'' solution....mostly in ''Zodiac's Bident'',which I uncovered,inspired by some the covert information,that you had mentioned.

So,thanks for that.

Also,my belief that the decoy ''UCLA Three'' are the redacted names in Zodiac's [...albeit unauthenticated..] ''Steve McQueen'' letter,containing a death list of Democrat politicians and Hollywood ''A-listers''.

I will be passing this information on to the FBI,also.

So,thanks again for your inspiration.

Judith
7/19/2018 08:35:06 pm

I feel the number count represents dead people only.
So we have December, Lake Herman Road. 2 dead people.
July we have Blue Rock Springs one dead person.
Then you have Sept.,Lake Berryessa one dead person.
And then October you have Paul Stein one dead person. Who are the two dead people from August? Throw a wider net than just California, look for murders in Nevada too. Don't forget to check for murdered children. He threatened to kill children.

Sigmund
7/20/2018 05:08:32 am

Yes Judith, I agree. The numbers were nothing more than a tally intended to function as a taunt. The Zodiac was either just boasting or he was deluded enough to believe he had killed more than he actually had, OR he did, as you suggest, actually kill more people to make up the tally.

I very much doubt that the Zodiac had any interest in numerology. He certainly was no CIA puppet with "Minutemen cohorts" - and whatever that is supposed to have to do with numerology is anybody's guess. But of course popular mythology demands that the CIA must all be covert Satanists, right, so I guess that includes numerology too? And, if anyone believes that, well chances are they will also believe that the CIA are bombarding the population with Chemtrails which is giving everybody Morgellons. LOL!

BB
7/20/2018 01:20:25 pm

Since the letter "t" is so in your face. What do you propose it signifies?
The first letter of a name.
Since I was looking for patterns and commonalities I came across

' Tandy '

http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/html/1966/h001.html

It could be that the Zodiac was just throwing out things he thought were cool and wanted to share. Wanting to share in this new toy. He talked about being lonely and all.
Perhaps killing couples because he was jealous of not having what he saw as the ideal companionship he longed for.
Tandy Radio Shack was a hobby shop of sorts - perhaps Zodiac's childlike world perspective lead him to spend time and money here.

Shelli
7/20/2018 02:08:34 pm

Stop it Sigmund. Your insults and jibes are counter productive to this process. There were high ranking Satanists in S. F. There were high ranking Satanists running the U. S. Army psych warfare dept at Presideo. These are established facts in California history, whether it Impacted Zodiac is the question at hand. I am not laughing out loud.

Sigmund
7/20/2018 05:14:22 pm

As the great American singer Don McLean once wrote: "I believe what I believe ain't worth a dime!" It is at least refreshing to find some American people who are sufficiently switched on to reality to understand the fantasy land of non-deconstructed mythology that otherwise surrounds them. Sadly most others fall knee deep into it and get so swept along that in time they simply take all the mythology for granted.

So I must ask, who exactly is being counter-productive?

The educated part of the world's population is indeed laughing at the mostly home-grown American crowd who insist on turning every single event in their history into an elaborate conspiracy theory.

Americans who believe this kind of crap must have crooked necks, because they are forever looking back over their shoulders, thinking their Government and authority figures are constantly plotting against them.

Of course, it goes without saying that there are "fringe elements" like Satanism in California, as there are in just about every part of the Western world. Such groups are mostly haphazard and very uncoordinated. But whether any particular group or sect has ever been so powerful as to influence major historical events, that is the question. I very much doubt that their influence has extended beyond the activities of lone radicals and eccentrics, some of whom may indeed have killed in the name of their "religion".

I would tend to think that popular mythology and whatever appears on the American idiot box (television) has had a far greater influence on what happens and what people choose to think and believe in modern day America. And now we have the internet with its own special little "interest" areas, with countless websites set up by fringe dwellers and their narrow perceptions, all with their own little agendas and axes to grind. I am sure even the Satanists have found their own comfortable little niche on the internet somewhere where they can proclaim their world dominance, while the conspiracy theorists who believe this and other nonsense have found other little niches that fit their particular take on reality. In all cases such webpages tend to be funded by radical or eccentric individuals who have very limited world views.

Satanists can probably be found just about everywhere on the globe, just as conspiracy theorists can be. A nearby lookout in fact has large stones covered in various Wiccan and Satanic graffiti. I daresay the Wiccans do not appreciate those pesky Satanists interfering on their turf, and vice versa. Most of the attendees at the Satanic rituals turn out to be stoned teenagers, not business executives or members of the police force or intelligence agency.

In many ways, this fake proclamation of Satanism has become a great deterrent to those pesky Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons who sometimes arrive on my doorstep attempting to convert me away from the apparent "evils" of science, rationality and reason. I tell them "Sorry, you are wasting your time, because I am a Satanist!" They generally leave so fast they leave nothing but a trail of dust in their wake, but still bend their crooked necks and glare back at me like owls from the bottom of the driveway as they go off to test out the neighbors.

And yes I will LOL at such people! I will LOL very, very loud and hard.

Richard
7/19/2018 11:30:09 pm

While some, if not many may not have considered Napa part of the Bay Area, it actually was.

The North Bay is a subregion of the San Francisco Bay Area, in California, United States. The largest city is Santa Rosa, which is the fifth-largest city in the Bay Area. It is the location of the Napa and Sonoma wine regions, and is the least populous and least urbanized part of the Bay Area. It consists of Marin, Napa, Solano, and Sonoma counties.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Bay_(San_Francisco_Bay_Area)

Richard
7/19/2018 11:44:17 pm

The borders of the San Francisco Bay Area are not officially delineated, and the unique development patterns influenced by the region's topography, along with the presence of unusual commute patterns caused by the presence of three central cities and employment centers located in suburban cities, has led to considerable disagreement between local and federal definitions of the area. Because of this, professor of geography at the University of California, Berkeley Richard Walker claimed that "no other U.S. city-region is as definitionally challenged [as the Bay Area]."

Locally, many of the regional governmental agencies and districts recognize the nine counties that border the San Francisco, San Pablo, and Suisun estuaries as part of the Bay Area: Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, Napa, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Solano, and Sonoma counties. These agencies include the San Francisco Regional Water Quality Control Board,] Bay Area Air Quality Management District, the San Francisco Bay Restoration Authority,] the Metropolitan Transportation Commission, and the Association of Bay Area Governments, the latter two of which partner to deliver a Bay Area Census using the nine-county definition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay_Area

Sigmund
7/20/2018 05:14:54 am

What I said before. The Zodiac supplied a road map showing Mt. Diablo as the most prominent feature on the landscape (for him). It goes without saying that this map represented what the Zodiac considered to be his domain.

Tom
7/20/2018 06:16:54 am

Well,whether it is or isn’t, Rubislaw makes a valid point that Mr. Z may have considered LB to be in the “North Bay”.

Sigmund
7/20/2018 05:16:18 pm

This sounds like one of those "toe-may-toe" vs. "too-mar-toe" arguments if you ask me. ;-)

Alka-Seltzer
7/20/2018 06:46:09 pm

Sigmund - will the real Ray Jenkins step forward ?

Sigmund
7/20/2018 08:51:58 pm

Who could give an F about Ray Jenkins? Not me, that much is for certain!

Karen C
7/20/2018 09:16:53 pm

Sigmund, you don't get the joke. Everyone who disagrees with anybody else on this forum in a rational manner is presumed by some of the more pea-brained and paranoid on here to be "Ray Jenkins", who is evidently in league with the CIA and a whole host of other nasty people like Satanists. He must go by about 60 different pseudonyms by now. I can only conclude that some moron on here must be using word and grammar matching software to come to the moronic conclusion that anybody who uses the same style of language must be Ray Jenkins. Well duh, there are many people in this workplace all sharing the same IP address and we were all educated in Australia in the same place and time. Of course, we will all use the same style of language and expressions!

I know Ray Jenkins personally, and "no", that is not his real name. One thing I can state with absolute certainty is that Ray only ever posts under his own name when he does, and he has not posted on here for a very long time. He could no longer see the point. Ironically he got fed up with one braggart constantly big noting his apparent abilities and connections, and several ratbag conspiracy theorists. I agree with him 100% and, in light of this, I am also beginning to wonder "What is the point?".

In case anybody wonders, we are a legitimate private investigation company who have an interest in the Zodiac case. And "no" I will not tell you our business name for obvious reasons! "Yes" we always publish under pseudos.

Maybe we should start calling anyone who disagrees with us the name "Sandy Betts" or "BB". That would be just as stupid and childish.

Tahoe27
7/20/2018 11:40:46 am

Richard,

You mention the copy-cat would fail to read the papers about the Benicia attack, but the papers don't mention it as a "Benicia" attack. It's more clustered in with Vallejo. "East of Vallejo"..."Vallejo Couple"...in a Vallejo paper.

As you stated, Zodiac never mentioned Benicia. In the first letter...he only mentions "Lake Herman", and when referencing Darlene, says "the girl near the golf course in Vallejo".

He later mentioned the "good times" he had in Vallejo, but doesn't necessarily say the Lake Herman incident was in Vallejo.

My point being, it's the paper who lumped it all into Vallejo..for whatever that is worth...which could be why an impostor would do the same thing.

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=165

Richard
7/20/2018 12:37:40 pm

That is certainly possible Tahoe, connecting the Vallejo teenagers with the crime, thereby influencing his decision in referencing Vallejo.
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/lake-herman-road-newspaper-articles
Above are the written versions of the newspaper accounts. One states "FRIENDS QUIZZED IN SLAYING OF TEEN PAIR NEAR VALLEJO by George McEvoy". Another headlines "Two Youths Murdered in Benicia". Other text includes "near the entrance to the Benicia water supply pumping station". "two Vallejo teenagers, found shot to death on a lonely stretch of road near Lake Herman and the entrance to the Benicia water supply pumping station.". "Mrs Borges then flagged down a Benicia police unit". "The bodies of the two teenagers were found at 11.24 pm by Mrs Manuel Borges, who relayed her discovery to the Benicia Police Department."
The Zodiac got the position of Betty Lou Jensen correct, stating "feet to the west", coupled with his Presidio Heights knowledge of compass coordinates and the Mt Diablo map, it seemed odd that a man clearly proficient in compass directions and radians would make such a basic error, much like the Berryessa writer on the door. But I believe the best argument against a copycat is this:
https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-myth-of-the-berryessa-copycat
But I accept it won't convince everybody.
I still think the Tim Holt find is the business, and have explored it thoroughly in my latest article. It certainly could be much more valuable a find Tahoe than you ever imagined. Great discovery back in 2013.

Sigmund
7/20/2018 05:29:50 pm

I agree with what you are saying here Richard... but when you say he was "clearly proficient in compass directions and radians" I nearly choked on my soup. Compass directions maybe, but as yet nobody has been able to fully explain the Zodiac's particular take on radians. There have been lots of competing ideas thrown around over the years, but nobody knows for certain. I personally think he was just spouting more nonsense and pretending to be smarter than he actually was. It was just another Joker and Riddler-esq riddle that only Batman with his Bat Computer could solve. In other words, it was basically just nonsense, or it might have meant something to him personally, but only he could ever understand the significance.

But at least it seems he could read a road map and a compass!

Tahoe27
7/21/2018 10:31:35 am

Not sure if this will go under Sigmund's comment, but that is who I addressing here. You previously mentioned Mt. Diablo and his domain. I agree with that in a sense. I do think he was knowledgeable about Radians. It's basic stuff in a few formats. Even modern calculators transfer radians to degrees. Since Mt. Diablo was used for surveying, I think there is some significance there. Certainly, nothing is "known" for sure.

Here is a link where I discuss some ideas about it:

http://zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2252

Sigmund
7/21/2018 03:09:30 pm

No problem Tahoe. We all have our own ideas on the case. I came to the conclusion long ago that nobody on a Zodiac forum or blog will ever solve the case, so what the hey?

The police will just have to do their job and test and re-test all of the evidence for DNA cross matches. That is the only hope of the killer ever being identified. In reality, the majority of online sleuths like me are just whistling in the dark. That has been the case since the very first internet post relating to Zodiac was uploaded. And how long ago was that? I personally think the only worthwhile discovery in all that time has been your Holt comic book connection. In reality, nothing much else has changed. We still know as little now as we did back then. The internet being the popular domain has become a place of shared information, which sadly has produced a negative consequence. It has merely served to create more randomness and chaos with regard to the case of the Zodiac killer. And yes, as you point out, conspiracy theorists have got in on the action and sent it so far off the rails it has left the solar system.

Tahoe27
7/21/2018 04:58:00 pm

I do agree, it won't be anyone on the internet who solves it. Providing some good new leads might be a plus, but at this point, too many who think they know who it is have hurt more than helped.

Sigmund
7/22/2018 05:46:46 pm

"Too many who think they know who it is have hurt more than helped."

Wow, that statement really does encapsulate it for me. So very true! How many people have come and gone over the decades claiming to be 100% certain they know the identity of the killer? Some have continued their campaigns long after most other people have found gaping problems in their theories and moved on. And yes, as you say, a lot of good people have been ridden roughshod over in the process. People have even been banned for life from some forums or stalked and trolled aggressively online simply for asking relevant questions that others have deemed "counter-productive" to the preservation of a particular theory.

Judith
7/20/2018 08:47:46 pm

I'm pretty certain that Lake Berryessa was the doing of the Zodiac Killer. What you want us to believe is that another brutal murderer dressed up in a Zodiac costume and managed to copy the Zodiac Killer's handwriting on a car door. Really? Where is this guy? Lake Berryessa is Zodiac all day long. In fact right after I married Peter when I was still just 19 years old, we drove from our home in El Sobrante up to Lake Berryessa for the day. Most disturbing little day it was. He took me to the location of the zodiac murders unbeknownst to me. We would return many times over the years. We went to a lot of effort to pack a picnic and drive up there. We unloaded the car in the warm summer weather walking down towards the Lake. We had just settled in when Peter left on his own and went around the cove and came running back and told me," hurry hurry get everything NOW let's go, we got to go!" and made me run with the ice chest and everything back to the car.
He screeched out of there with a loaded handgun on the console of his mother's Pontiac Grand Prix. Everything was black, his shirt, the interior of the car, his mood.

Karen C
7/20/2018 09:30:58 pm

I agree with you Judith. Without venturing too far into the briar patch of unknowns, it does seem very unlikely to me that a copycat was ever responsible for the Lake Berryessa thing. So someone reads the Zodiac name in the paper relating to a crime committed elsewhere and decides "Gee that is a cool name". This person then goes to the trouble of manufacturing an elaborate costume and he writes on a car door in the same style of handwriting as the real Zodiac using the same symbol. I don't buy it. Plus, wouldn't the real Zodiac have had something to say about this? He did after all have a big ego and I doubt very much if he would have applauded a copycat for doing his work for him. The whole suggestion seems about as preposterous as suggesting Donald Harden was the Zodiac.

Tahoe27
7/21/2018 10:43:51 am

Apparently the person at LB didn't even acknowledge the name Zodiac. If someone wants to commit a crime and divert attention to someone else, what a better way than to lump it in with the Zodiac case.

The person who made that elaborate costume was a different kind of crazy, imo. Zodiac, in all other cases, in the evening, came and went. Did his deed and left. Lake Berryessa is beyond different. Zodiac, with Stine, reverted back to his typical hitman type of behavior. If that isn't enough to question it, I don't know what is.

Even prominent investigators have strong differences of opinion with this case, but good ones explore all avenues and don't shut-out the possibility they could be mistaken. What if it WAS a different person? Someone could be left to roam the streets simply because they couldn't be placed at the scene of a crime. That would be unfortunate.

I am extremely anti-conspiracy. I can't stand that crap. I know many who have a POI won't even consider the possibility that LB was an impostor--they have to much vested in their guy, but to close one's mind to the possibility is not a good way of investigating a case.

Karen C
7/21/2018 03:13:45 pm

He didn't acknowledge the name Zodiac? Who asked him if he was the Zodiac? Only Bryan and Cecelia were there. Only Bryan and Cecelia spoke to him. lol!

Tahoe27
7/21/2018 05:00:40 pm

I simply meant he didn't say he was Zodiac--to Bryan and Cecelia, or when he made the phone call and spoke to Officer Slaight.

Karen C
7/22/2018 05:05:56 pm

Umm, the obvious question is "Why would he have to?" Was he supposed to pronounce his arrival to Bryan and Cecelia with a robotic "I am the Zodiac speaking!"?

As for LB not being connected to the Zodiac, I just don't get it. Seems far more likely, given all the many very obvious connections and similarities with writing, that the attacker was one and the same person. The "By Knife" written on the car door is what really clinches it. If the attacker was someone else, chances that this individual could tie into the other correspondence would have to be billions to one. But then you say that piece of correspondence did not come from the real Zodiac, but from the copycat. Seems rather convenient to me, especially when you consider that the handwriting is the same.

The Zodiac wrote about hunting in the woods and Mt Diablo for a reason. He was an outdoors kind of person, which again fits very well with LB. He was also apparently adaptable in a city environment, or at least he tried this with mixed success, but almost got himself caught on Presidio Heights.

I am sure many people thought the GSK was many different culprits and they would not accept that the POI was the same individual simply because of the different MOs and geography of the crimes. I am sure some of these people still do not believe the DNA evidence.

These people all have egg on their faces today.

If it swims like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it seems most likely that it is a duck.

ILKP
9/25/2018 08:45:18 am

He was the Zodiac.

BATMAN
7/21/2018 04:37:15 am

Seems like "zodiac" was into killing in times of collective/national festives: IF he killed Cheri Jo Bates in October 30th, 1966 it was on Halloween; the Lake Herman Road murders of David Farady and Betty Lou Jensen took place in christmas, the 4th of July murder of Darlene Ferrin and attack on Mike Megeau; the 27th of September, 1969 was the first day of the Jewish Holiday of Sukkot: http://www.hebcal.com/hebcal/?year=1969;v=1;month=x;yt=G;nh=on;nx=on;vis=on;c=off NOT that I'm suggesting he was Jewish but perhaps he was aware of that and used that as a motivation for killing on that day.

Karen C
7/22/2018 05:15:06 pm

Interesting! I did at one time consider a POI who was a Jewish student attending Stanford University at the time. But he just didn't mesh with what we know about the Zodiac. Of course his photo was a lot like the Zodiac sketch, but then, everybody around that age who wore glasses looked basically the same. I guess this is why the Zodiac became the "man of many faces".

I do agree with you that most of the crimes were committed during or close to holiday periods. Maybe this was simply because he had the opportunity during those periods? Perhaps it was during those periods that he got bored and made preparations? Perhaps this suggests he was otherwise employed and this employment took up most of his time and kept his mind occupied on other things besides killing? As soon as he was left to his own thoughts he got restless?

BATMAN
7/21/2018 04:56:30 am

7 Victims by the end of October 1969 IN 6 EVENTS? (November 9th, 1969 letter): https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/7-victims-by-the-end-of-october-1969-in-6-events-n-t8104.html

Judith
7/21/2018 07:22:56 pm

Looks like we may never know for sure if Lake Berryessa was the doing of the Zodiac Killer. I don't believe there was any viable DNA evidence retrieved.

Karen C
7/22/2018 05:31:28 pm

I am astounded to hear there was no DNA evidence.

Did I read somewhere that a police officer or some other person had bundled up all of the picnic stuff by the lake and disposed of it? Apparently this occurred before investigators could even see the crime scene? Is this true??? There is so much fact from fiction that must be separated!

If this story is true, it suggests the LB crime scene was basically contaminated and erased out of existence. This not only suggests very bad procedure, it also suggests, dare I say it, possible collusion.

It means they lost the potential for DNA in the way of hair and skin samples and any sweat or blood (if he cut himself) that may have dripped off the attacker on to the fibers. Even prior to the knowledge that DNA is a valuable tool in crime fighting, most police were aware of the critical need not to disturb a crime scene before it can be properly investigated, photographed, tagged, catalogued and bagged. This has long been standard police procedure.

I cannot believe the Zodiac would have taken so many precautions that he left nothing behind. Or was he once again just very, very lucky, and the police were all somehow totally incompetent?

What about the ropes used to bind the couple? What about the clothes they were wearing? Unless the evidence was badly stored and highly contaminated today, something should still remain that contains traces of the attacker's DNA on it.

Rubislaw 32 link
7/22/2018 02:35:20 am

What anyone should see,Judith,who ventures into the world,of the case of The Zodiac Killer,is that :

Though we might argue the toss of the coin,or otherwise,over the authenticity of correspondences....and even claims of abduction,stalking and even ''missing bodies''....what is abundantly clear is....that ''LHR'',''BRS'',''LB'' and Presidio Heights,were all committed by the ''one and only'',''The Zodiac Killer''.

Real blood spilt,and palpable heartache for the bereaved of victims.

If positively electing to confirm the perpetrator of these acts of manslaughter and attempted manslaughter,Law Enforcement simply do not mess about.And,as everyone ought to be aware,L.E. will have the forensic evidence,to back this up.

If anyone is inclined to denial of these 4 attacks,by that same urban terrorist,then they should go investigate '' Who killed Bambi''.

Karen C
7/22/2018 05:34:17 pm

Very eloquently and succinctly put Rubislaw.

100% agree with you on this!

Rubislaw 32 link
7/22/2018 06:05:06 pm

Well thanks Karen...I noted in your comments that you were thinking along the same lines....or at least,perplexed at the ''copycat theorists'' for Lake Berryessa,in particular.

This isn't meant to have a good old bash at their ''strange'' stance,but it does become deflating,when a minority appear to be ''expanding'' speculation,based on ''nothing in particular''.

Part of the investigating of this Zodiac case,is having one eye on decisions made by Law Enforcement,and the reasons for those decisions.In the indisputable knowledge that L.E's knowledge exceeds that of our own,as amateur investigators [?].

Given that artists in the past,such as Edgar Allan Poe and Aleister Crowley were known to be addicted to ''Absinthe'',which was an hallucinagenic and alcoholic beverage,also known as ''The Green Fairy''.....then perhaps we might refer to the Lake Berryessa copycat theorists as believing ''Absynthe of evidence'' regarding the real Zodiac [?].

From now on,the copycat theorists shall be named ''The Green Fairies''.


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    The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians & # inches along the radians. The code solution identified was Estimate: Four Radians and Five Inches To read more, click the image.
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