HOW INTELLIGENT WAS THE ZODIAC KILLER

12/31/2017

For nearly half a century law enforcement, newspaper journalists, television commentators and the Zodiac community have speculated and argued on the likely intelligence of the Bay Area murderer. So, I have created a poll using the Current Wechsler IQ classification with seven categories. Here is your chance to vote.
'The Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scale (WAIS) is an IQ test designed to measure intelligence and cognitive ability in adults and older adolescents. The original WAIS (Form I) was published in February 1955 by David Wechsler, as a revision of the Wechsler–Bellevue Intelligence Scale, released in 1939. It is currently in its fourth edition (WAIS-IV) released in 2008 by Pearson, and is the most widely used IQ test, for both adults and older adolescents, in the world'. Wikipedia.
https://vote.pollcode.com/39137563

Rubislaw 32 link

12/31/2017 08:33:52 am

Very difficult to quantify.Particularly as we don't yet know who he is,and therefore our knowledge of him,will always be ''on the surface''.

Individuals who are regarded as geniuses,still have weak sides to their overall intelligence.Albert Einstein avoided public transport,because he was embarrassed about his weak mental arithmetic,and concerned himself about counting out the correct money for a fare.

And yet,he set the world alight,as a Natural Philosopher.Assisted by his partner,the mathematician,Godel,I might add.

Zodiac was no genius,and probably not even ''super bright''.But I think he was well above average,and around the ''superior'' range.

Zodiac's ''gift'' to himself was that he was a voracious reader....of almost anything and everything.One could argue that it gave him greater choice,with which to take an interest [?].

Much that is on view,in his communications,is a ''parodied'' version of his real self....the ''theatrical'' version.

I think it is just difficult for ''us'',that he could actually go through the ''blood and cruelty'',as he intimated....and really not appear to be that concerned about it.

Greg

12/31/2017 03:38:28 pm

My theory is that he may have sustained a brain injury in Vietnam, or elsewhere, and this induced 'acquired savant syndrome' which allowed him to produce the complex ciphers. In other, everyday cognitive facets, such as his poor writing and spelling, as well as his utter carelessly during the Stine murder, he appeared rather inferior.

http://www.traumaticbraininjury.net/acquired-savant-syndrome-and-tbi/

Alex Lewis

1/2/2018 12:05:40 pm

Funny you should write this bow Richard as only last week I had an email from an individual who introduced Himself by name and stated his occupation as Commercial Airlines pilot. He emailed after he had searched Lawrence Kane after watching the recent Hist. Channel & said He didn't know Kane had suffered a brain injury till He came to start reading it on my site said Lawrence became even more solid a suspect, in his mind anyway, after he read it on my page.

He went on to document that he had had personal, first hand experience of left lobe injury, and its associated symptoms post trauma. He spoke of his own personal experience in which he knew after observing a close friend post TBI & how the symptoms manifest in several ways and alter dramatically persons behavior and persona, there is no change\impact upon the persons intellectual functioning. I will ask his permission to post his email in full here as it is a very interesting, if somewhat sobering, read.

Chad

1/28/2018 12:52:03 am

i do not know how larry kane could not have abducted donna lass... it is way too coincidental im very sure it is him! he is creepy and called donna's work to tell them she would not be in because of fam emergency or some creepy crap.. i always wondered if it was true about kane gettin pulled over with a dead woman in passenger seat but told cop she is asleep and got away? sooooo creepy kane gives me heebie jeebies

Ray Jenkins

1/1/2018 01:54:18 am

Borderline to average at best, but also clever enough to know what "window dressing" is. lol!

Rubislaw 32 link

1/1/2018 05:38:52 am

Yes [!]....I can see this article not attracting too many comments.And,with probably wide variances of opinion [?].

So much comes down to [...quite obviously...] perception of what is on the table,with regard to ''confirmed'' crimes and correspondence.

I see the Paul Stine murder as a ''tour de force'' in planning,for Zodiac.....and he still almost didn't get away with it,on underestimating the quick response of the police,of around only 3 minutes.

With Zodiac's writing,it can come down to what is perceived as ''below the surface''.Apart from identified,quantified and ''qualified'' references to knowledge,there are other considerations,such as assessing Zodiac's social and economic background.

To put it ''starkly'',was Zodiac's background ''unsophisticated'',but he possessed core intelligence....or,was his background sophisticated,but his intelligence,average at best [?].

In western culture,fifty years ago,there were really five main social class.....working,lower middle,middle,upper middle,and upper.

I sense that Zodiac was from ''lower middle'',aspiring to,at least middle.So,some of his references and statements might have appeared ''naive'',and some unnecessarily ''pompous''.

In both cases,masquerading,by accident or design,a perceived ''intellect'',or otherwise.

KayelleSF

1/1/2018 01:13:57 pm

With the Paul Stine murder, Z didn't seem to anticipate any witnesses from the nearby housing either. His prior "known" crimes took place in rural settings so he appears to have underestimated the city dynamic. Even so, I think Z was of superior intelligence with respect to puzzle solving etc, but was stunted in the areas of social interaction...kind of like a serial killer savant type of thing. But of course it's all conjecture.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/1/2018 01:37:27 pm

I agree entirely,KayelleSF.....all the evidence supports what you say.

Not that much ''conjecture'',really [?].

KayelleSF

1/1/2018 02:49:05 pm

Good point, Rubislaw32. There are things we can glean from the facts we know. There rest is conjecture ;)

Alex Lewis

1/2/2018 12:24:53 pm

Kaye, its not the witnesses he should be either anticipating or concerning Himself with avoiding having see Him. . . Its that Vehicle with red and blur flashing lights atop its roof 3-5 second away from bring close enough to slow or stop totally and call him over to them. That is the thing I probably be more concerned with than if witnesses saw me or Not.

Having omitted the crime where he did, and when in terms of the time of Night it was (9:55pm) and his having no choice other than to walk the distance of Cherry then down Jackson with this entire journey seeing him flanked by residential properties both sides of the street he's walking. . . I think its a safe assumption to make that he knew in advance there would be a better than average chance that hed br spotted by at least one person along that escape route, question is for me, why didn't he care nor seem to see this as running a unnecessary gauntlet.

He could have chosen to shoot Paul one road over on Wes t Pacific Avenue where there are no streetlights, nor homes overlooking it ( and them that are from a rear window will not have a clear street lit view of male) and he could walk off West Pacific and within one or two steps....Presidio of San Francisco and/or Julius Kahn Playground.

Its almost as if he wanted to be spotted killing Stine in the middle of a Four street intersection where vehicles and\or citizens on foot can come from N,SE and West!

Alex Lewis

1/2/2018 03:41:52 pm

Things can be gleaned from the facts as they are known. . .

Yeah, these same facts you refer to knowing have been known for coming up to a half century now, and what discovery of excellence or breakthrough of significance have the facts you are sticking to led you to, please disclose?

The facts are ever non changing attesting to the truth of that which is known beyond any doubt, and when these unchanging certified set of known things lead to Fifty Years of nothingness in terms of moving half a step forward, for you to suggest we simply continue staring at these facts hoping that somehow a suspect will come from somewhere within it, well good luck with that.

Whatever you do, do not speculate, as speculation based on or built from a known fact or two, cant hurt and may even lead to something yet to be discovered.
You may, If it be your wish, continue to stare at your facts as they have been know to you, Me & all who have intimate knowledge of this case, and see everything that is and has been known for 50 years now and then, well you tell me, what are you to do with these facts tomorrow when they tell you the same as they have today, and did yesterday, and day before and the day before and etc etc and etc.

The best Scientific discoveries of fact almost alelways, without exception, come from scientific theory. You statement is not only absurd, its absurd and ridiculous!

Alex Lewis

1/2/2018 03:58:12 pm

Stick to hard fact boy, do not derail into speculation!

Lets all agree with the 'facts as we know them to be' because other people have told us the facts are fact and thats for a fact!

"Good morning Sir, happy 2018 to you too my good man, how pleasent and wonderful it us Richard that We are members of A flat Earth Society, you know that same one that is the Flat Earth Center of the Universe, of which all other thing revolve around. Yes, for speculation of anything to the contrary is the work of Satan, and you who suggest The Earth is A sphere shall be burnt at the steak as heretics. Have a nice day, yours truly: Forever factual factoid fumphtybabble!

Sully link

1/1/2018 12:18:17 pm

Agreed, Greg. SF shooting gave us a glimpse of a serial killer who didnt quite think it thru that evening. Reminded me of the movie called 'The Matador' where the hitman loses the required ability to continue the job. Maybe Z realized he didnt have the smarts to think on his feet after a gimpy hike down Jackson St right past those lowered IQ patrolmen.
A savants brain would register a double digit IQ. Z was certainly nobody's fool. The cipher codes were just smoke n mirror doodles in mom's basement...
Z had too much time on his hands. Nothing to do and all day to do it.

Alex Lewis

1/2/2018 12:34:33 pm

I don't think its simply lack of planning or oversight by Zodiac at all. I think He knew very well where he would shoot Paul and for whatever thee reason, just didn't care or had a reason to believe he could get away from the scene no matter what obstacle were placed in his path and that includes one with a "Red Light & Siren"

Sully link

1/2/2018 07:30:56 pm

Best of 2018 to you sir. Forgive me for past ramblings in midnight hours! What makes sense then can become twisted pretzel logic by daybreak lol!

Enjoyed your flat earth vs ball earth analogy above ^^^ . I do realize us newbies will beat 'dead horses' daily but you know Z. Here goes: Would Z have fired at officers Zelms/Foulke if detained or just drop his gun to live and battle a murder charge in Court?
Brain chemicals were all jacked up so... with guns blazing or no ?

Alex Lewis

1/2/2018 09:36:25 pm

The post and statement wasn't directed or meant in response to you, Sully.

The question you ask, albeit a hypothetical one, is one I myself often pondered. What would Zodiac have done if approached by Don or more likely Zelms, Zelms because he's closer to Subject on North side of the street & sidewalk, and tell the guy that there's been a homicide involving a firearm and because of that, asks does this man have any objections to his being patted down?

Then I think the question switches from would Z have done in response to one of, why didn't they do that as standard anyway? When A radio broadcasts gives a crime in progress (because it was when Lindsey and Rebecca speak to SFPD dispatcher) there's a armed assault of a cab driver that Armond upday within seconds of arriving on scene is a homicide via shooting, any unit now responding knows two things minimum: 1, Offender is in immediate vicinity as per witnesses calling crime in and secondly, that suspect is armed with a firearm. Whether you bull shit about incorrect BMA description issued is not really important as surely, no matter what color any individual spotted is, the approaching cops are going to adopt a policy of stop and search anyone and everyone in that area where they know the armed and dangerous un-sub is? That's what cops always do when I have seen cops in The States responding to radio broadcasts and for far less than crimes of homicide, too. Any report of violent crime from simple basic assault with any weapon, cops adopt a better safe than sorry attitude if and when they come across anyone.

Are We really to believe that Don pulls to a stop, Eric calls to a man who just true his best to appear extremely nervous and suspicious by looking at the cops and immediately turning and trying to avoid having to bypass their car and see and speak to them as they approach him? Did Don and Eric not interpret that as highly suspicious behavior and therefore stop, wind Down Erics passenger window and call over to the man who's clearly acting nervous and suspicious and sit in their patrol car watching this guy rite on them in their patrol car literally lowing themselves to become literally sitting targets where He has the advantage and draw on the two cops if he is armed and pulls a pistol and opens fire on them.

They wouldn't get their own serice revolvers unclipped and outa their holsters before they'd have been shot two or three times each and incapacitated or worse, dead instantly if hit in the head.

Pelissetti is, in his own words "Using every technique I knew of so I didn't get my head blown off..." and that is without any suspect in his physical sight but is using such extreme caution as he knows suspect is in the close proximity and armed with a gun, and at the exact same moment Armond shows such extreme caution, Don & Eric are screeching to a stop: "Oi! Yeah you...get here and stand there while I stay seated here for you to get the draw on me, shots fired, none by Don or Eric, they are now waiting for Armonds Arrival and discover then deceased.

Really????

Rubislaw 32 link

1/1/2018 01:13:13 pm

I can't imagine very vividly,where you think Zodiac ''failed'',in executing a taxi driver,and getting clean away,Sully [?].

And,all on a Saturday....the busiest tourist day of the week.....and a weekend day,for Zodiac.

Do please.....explain away.

Do you really think he was on a suicide mission,to ''take down'',as many people,as he could ?

Sully link

1/1/2018 03:11:22 pm

Happy 2018 Rubislaw! Hope you enjoyed the Holidays as well.

Earlier ramble was to say Z cudve had a taxi drive him anywhere in SF to ensure a cleaner getaway. Strolling down a busy Jackson St. (wearing blood ?) wasnt a wise decision. And if either Foulke or Zelms had a clue that night, well... but SF Cops were so focused on black panthers SHOOTING THEM, they cudnt think clearly. I'm sure its why Z got a free pass to slip into the night.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/1/2018 03:38:33 pm

I take your points on board,Sully.....and a happy new year,to you,also !

It had occurred to me...with a mention of ''Maple and Laurel'' in the History Series....I wonder if that has something to do with a previous ''dress rehearsal'',for Zodiac [?].

The possibility that the Presidio vicinity had always been his planned getaway area....but he had done a ''dry run'' with a taxi,a previous Saturday night....and considering different ''drop off'' points,for a taxi driver's execution [?].

Sully link

1/2/2018 01:59:28 am

14 days from LB to the Stine execution right? Z was calculating escape routes how to get to the GG BRIDGE ASAP. Maple/Laurel Streets in SF both run parallel to Cherry St, but more east and with more traffic so, a no-brainer why Z took Stine 2/3 blocks further west.

If Z parked his car in the Presidio (Letterman Hosp) then hiking there was a big risk as he cudnt even jog. How he was able to drive to the Bridge and not get stopped was against the odds too.

Having used only 1 bullet on Stine, Z was loaded to shoot Zelms/Foulke if they detained him on Jackson Street. Zodiac wudve lost that gunfight.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/2/2018 03:34:25 am

Some interesting thoughts,Sully,on Zodiac's possible considerations,regarding a ''city murder''.

I feel that the Presidio vicinity,and possibly Letterman Hosp.,as you have suggested,was a crucial part of Zodiac's plan.In essence,he placed a priority on the ''getting away'' part,first.....and that he had concluded that parking a car in that vicinity,would facilitate best,his access to the ''Golden Gate'',to remove himself completely.

Even if it meant a bit of a walk...but in a mostly shielded area.He had probably calculated,and indeed practised,the time needed to abscond his crime scene and drive as far as the north end of the bridge,and out of SFPD jurisdiction.

If the SFPD had considered ''road blocks'',the whole process would have taken up to half an hour....so Zodiac knew he had ''reasonably ample'' time [?].

After Mike and Darlene,at BRS,Zodiac was at least 10 weeks,before striking at ''Berryessa'',and 12 weeks before Stine's murder.

There is certainly a sense that Zodiac had planned a ''costume murder'' and a ''city murder'' as a ''double project'',a long time prior,therefore.

So,any ''dry runs'' for the ''city murder'' could have been taken,as early as July or August....for a ''projected'' October murder [?].

I believe,in effect,Zodiac took a long time to figure out those two ''projects''.

Early August saw the ''World Headline'' news of the Tate-LaBianca murders....which Zodiac knew would eclipse anything he did,any day of the week,in the newspapers.

So,after his ''July 4th'' murder of Darlene,it seems that he ''took stock''.....and with the Tate-LaBianca murders,knew that he would have to come up with something ''special''.

Sully link

1/2/2018 11:07:20 am

So Z had summer of '69 scheduled in advance with SF shooting as a finale? All the world was just a stage to him...

KayelleSF makes a good point that Z had operated in rural settings prior and the SF witnesses were another 'variable' he didn't factor in (besides the hair dye)

The Presidio wasn't SFPD jurisdiction back then so Z knew his odds of escape increased exponentially once he entered that military base, and then the drive to the GG Bridge was 5-6 minutes or so.

Read up on Tamalpais attack in '72 of a young lady stabbed just 10 minutes north of GG Bridge. Was the Presidio the nucleus again for Z trolling there?

Rubislaw 32 link

1/2/2018 12:34:40 pm

That is an interesting piece of information,regarding the Presidio,Sully.

If true,then it may well have influenced Zodiac,in his temporary parking arrangements [?].And,if it might have been the case that the SFPD,would have had to ask permission of the military,to enter their ''space'' [?].

The ''summer of '69'' is when Zodiac started to create himself,as the self-branded ''The Zodiac'',with letters in late July and early August,culminating in his first real set-back.....the humiliation of the facile nature of his ''408'' cipher,at the hands of Don and Bettye Harden.

By August 10th of that summer,Zodiac had to concern himself,that the press were actually laughing at him....and to make matters worse,the Tate-LaBianca murders,were just breaking,as a world news story.

How could he ''compete'',now ?

''Berryessa'' on September 27th,and a ''city cabbie'' on October 11th,would be his response.....

John

1/2/2018 01:39:18 pm

I would just like to start off by thanking the posters for the great conversation on this post. Regarding the Zodiac's intelligence, I believe he was of average intelligence, maybe above average. He was certainly no genius. It's important to keep in mind that the people who were tasked in catching him were, not inept, but the case was certainly out of their league. Just by association the Zodiac comes off as a genius.

Regarding Stine's murder and Zodiac's planning or lack of, has it ever crossed your mind that maybe he wanted to be seen by someone? Chasing(killing) and being chased was the Zodiac's "trip" and he got some sort gratification out of it. Zodiac might have wanted to prolong that "high" or achieving the "ultimate high" by giving the authorities a "face," knowing that they would still not be able to catch him even if they knew what he looked like. Just a thought....

Ray Jenkins

1/2/2018 01:40:19 pm

Amazing how many people think he had smarts. Crazy people can often appear to be very clever in their particular field of expertise (lying, thieving, killing, fraud etc.), but those same people may appear slow and awkward in the everyday working world, especially if faced with the difficult or unfamiliar. Legends always appear much smarter than they perhaps were with the benefit of hindsight.

Did the Zodiac not get caught solely because of his smarts or was this due mainly to sheer dumb luck? This commentator thinks the latter is more likely.

Where is the evidence that he was a great scholar of the classics and had a fondness for the arts and literature? He recites some mixed up lines from The Mikado, constructs some half-assed attempts at ciphers that are so small they are useless, and he shows he has the engineering skills of Wile E Coyote in his bomb diagram.

He really wasn't that smart. He was only clever enough to work the media and taunt the police. So many less intelligent criminals have done better.

It is sad when undeserving criminals become legends. TV and books immortalize them. So we get the likes of The Great Train Robber, Jack the Ripper, and Ned Kelly etc. Such people in hindsight can seem like larger-than-life genius masterminds. Again this is mainly due to the huge benefit of hindsight, their exploits having been mythologized by human beings who came later. In actual fact they were just thieves, cold-blooded killers and hoodlums who in some cases got lucky. In the case of the Zodiac, I would say "very lucky", but not lucky at all for those whose lives he summarily destroyed.

Drew

1/2/2018 04:04:30 pm

Hi there, I think he is perceived by some (including myself) as intelligent because he chose to leave nothing to identify himself and endless material to fuel speculation. He could be anyone with any motivation. Personally I think he may have had CIA affiliations and had mastered disinformation tactics, but there is no real evidence to support that theory or any other.

A lot of people know fishing areas, have heard the most successful opera in the world, know cryptography from the war or books, and have a firm grasp of how newspapers and police operate. Not a lot of unintelligent people, but a good portion of the population could fit that profile.

Our most curious clue may be that he left almost all of his victims alive even though he could have easily made sure they were all dead. I think his motivation was to inflict pain on strangers to terrorize the community and elevate himself in his own mind... but of course that doesn't really get us any closer.

Do you think he was lucky that police didn't do a better job, especially in San Francisco? I'd be curious to read a list of how he may have benefited from dumb luck if you have time to compile one.

The possibly bogus dispatch for a black perpetrator certainly could have been a lucky break. The fact that Bidou was distracted when he passed by the site at Lake Herman Road could also have played a part. The rookie cop who allegedly wiped the prints off the Vallejo payphone and the rain in Lake Berryessa that compelled police to just wrap up the scene in a blanket are examples as well I suppose. Anything to add Ray?

Thanks

Ray Jenkins

1/2/2018 05:40:54 pm

I personally think he got a lot of his inspiration from watching Batman on TV and reading semi-intelligent snippets from comic books. Really he was no more intelligent than the Joker or Riddler from the Batman shows. There is a great scene in which the Penguin steals the Batmobile and while driving along a quiet country road he breaks into song. Guess what song he sings? None other than Tit-Willow. I can't recall the exact words so will paraphrase: "Oh to be gay and free, it's a bachelor's life for me, tit-willow, tit-willow, tit-willow!".

People tend to read a lot of stuff into what the Zodiac wrote, and I guess to some degree the Zodiac was clever enough to know that within the paradigm of social media and popular culture, this would happen. So he courted the media, pretending to be an intelligent jester, all to feed his ego and taunt the police and send them running around in circles. Other criminals of low to average intelligence have managed to appear just as clever.

When it comes to dumb luck, where would you start? Chance favors the bold and he was very bold.

As for the possible CIA connections. If that was the case, we have nothing to worry about, and it is "case closed", because he would have been summarily "dealt with" anonymously by his peers a long time ago and the public would have been told absolutely nothing.

I am sure if the police had better forensics back then and understood the critical importance of DNA in the near future, the Zodiac may have been caught. At least the chances of him being brought to justice may have been significantly higher.

As someone recently commented, it seems the Zodiac spent a lot of time around Lake Berryessa. So much time in fact that he possibly left behind a lot of DNA residue at the scene. He no doubt also had to relieve himself at some time, perhaps a few times, and it is highly likely he did this behind trees or rocks. He possibly even vomited. He may have also cut himself and dropped spots of blood. A modern forensics team would have wasted no time bringing in sniffer dogs to track the entire movements of the killer around the lake and sampled every speck of DNA that was found, no matter how tiny.

As far as I know, in those days they never brought in tracker dogs to Lake Berryessa. In any case, in those days I doubt they would have understood the significance of bottling any residual liquid evidence on the ground. They would have in all likelihood walked straight over the top of it. The collection of evidence had an entirely different focus back then, and the methods used were very prone to contamination.

Drew

1/2/2018 06:12:45 pm

Thanks for your thoughts Ray. I am pretty new to true crime so it is difficult for me to confidently assess the level of competence of late sixties police work. It sure seems like one or more jurisdiction dropped the ball or that something deeply nefarious was going on behind the scenes. I sure hope a verified DNA profile of Zodiac emerges soon.

I have not seen that Batman episode with the Penguin's Tit-Willow segment so thank you for that bit of info as well.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/2/2018 05:18:52 pm

Certainly pertinent points made,Drew.....and has John also alluded to,the mistakes that police appear to have made,seem to make Zodiac look ''smarter'',than he actually was.

I do think he was quite a bit brighter,than some choose to give him credit....but the extent of his own self assessment,was falsely elevated by failing to understand that everyone,including the cops,tended to be looking in another direction,when he came calling,with nefarious intentions.

In a previous article,that Richard presented,called ''The Smoking Gun'',I have argued,and do believe that Zodiac made a contrived ''pit stop'' with Paul Stine,at 345 Hyde Street.

If anyone remotely concedes that this may have taken place,then they will understand how absolutely devious,Zodiac was capable of being.

Just on a last point.....''humour''....again I have made a contentious ''claim'',that Zodiac was the ''concerned citizen'',and therefore the author of the ''408'' cipher....which is marginally,a more correct solution,than that of the Hardens [....but their's was published first...].

Those final 18 characters might have actually [....and surprisingly...] been an anagram for ''to me,Herb is pithiest''.

But,I prefer an alternative....which could have been :

''Best Hemp - I wrote shit''

Some might argue that that summed up Zodiac's letter's [?].

And,his humour.

Ray Jenkins

1/2/2018 06:07:58 pm

Something that I find rather convincing is a proposed solution by Tony Polito in 2014. If you use the "double mapping" technique from the Harden solution, the last line

E B E O R I E T E M E T H H P I T I

becomes...

R G R T I L R M H N H A E E U L A L

anagram for...

M R A R T H U R L E I G H A L L E N

Source: http://www.tonypolito.com/zodiac.pdf

I have never liked Leigh as a suspect, but I find this rather interesting nevertheless.

Interestingly, the most convincing solution I ever came up with myself for the "My Name is" cipher was a repeating sequence of "ALLENLEIGH". So go figure! :-/

Rubislaw 32 link

1/3/2018 03:53:14 am

Interesting Ray....those last 18 characters is something that I left to last,on account of The Harden's 98.5 % accuracy....and therefore,what we know about the ''408'',apart from the ''final anagram'',is already ''in the bank''.

Yes,time and again,Arthur Leigh Allen seems to come back to haunt us,if we ignore him for too long [?].

On paper,the best suspect.....but ''forensics'' says ''No''.

A ''cohort'' of Zodiac is still a remote possibility [?].

Ray Jenkins

1/4/2018 05:17:04 am

Granted, everything about Leigh did seem to fit. His periods of incarceration mirrored the hiatus and re-emergence of the Zodiac. I recall reading that he remained the favored suspect of LE right up to his death and the confidence of a conviction was so high that LE were at one time considering arresting him so he could stand trial. But then he dropped dead suddenly.

I am sure that LE do possess evidence on Leigh that they have never revealed to the public and it must be highly incriminating. Still the matter of the potentially contaminated and partial DNA not providing a match would have gone against the prosecutors, as would the lack of a match with the partial prints.

The sad thing is that the DNA and prints may not even belong to the Zodiac and therein lies the problem.

Incidentally I notice that many people these days think DNA and prints are the "be all and end all" of the Zodiac case. It is like "If only we can find a match then we have him!" If only it was that easy.

A partial match could be found but the individual still might not be the Zodiac. A lot of people unfortunately do not seem to get this.

When this logic is taken to its extreme it can result in people attempting to deposit all manner of paraphernalia with the police. This seemingly altruistic action by interested members of the public has resulted in all kinds of suspect and contaminated "evidence" being brought it to sheriff's offices and SFPD. The police get handed knives that people claim to have found hidden in the walls of an old house, or old books that members of the public claim were left on a car seat decades ago, or present them with a glass that the person claims the Zodiac drank from in recent times. All quite laughable after so many years.

What is it about "contaminated evidence" that these well-meaning(?) individuals do not understand? It would be the same if I said I knew a friend of a friend who knew Leigh who sold a knife to a pawnbroker and through a relative I bought it and two years later suddenly noticed a speck of what looks like red blood or paint on the handle. Then I took it to SFPD demanding that it be DNA tested because it might be the Zodiac's or victim's blood. There is little doubt that I would be laughed out of the building. There is a right way and a wrong way to present evidence, or tell the police about evidence. Do it the wrong way or try to trick them and they will instantly give you the brush off. Sadly, people often do it the wrong way and there have been a large number of fraudsters, about which Butterfield frequently laments.

Drew

1/2/2018 06:16:38 pm

Well, I certainly need to read about the Hyde Street pit stop Rubislaw. Very intriguing.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/3/2018 04:16:18 am

Recommended,Drew [!].....Richard was patient enough to give me the floor,in order to explain what was a ''brief'',but crucial event in what took place,that evening.

As becomes apparent,''evidence'' will have been left on Stine's ''trip sheet'',or journey log.

So,we might get to find out about it.....in time.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/4/2018 06:46:41 am

Yes Ray,I can understand LE getting to the point of pressing the Judiciary,to put a case against Allen.

They had probably come to the point of concluding that Allen,was the best chance of a conviction....and,to ''force'' a judge and jury,to decide [?].

But,there is a question,which you have touched on.....what did ''they'' really have on Allen [?].

It seems to me,that in any similar scenario,there are two main considerations :

Firstly,is it worth the public expenditure.[?].....when the outcome,is far from certain.

Secondly,is there a chance of ''mortally wounding'' the case,itself.[?].....if a prosecution fails.In other words,the ''prejudicial'' interpretation of a failed prosecution,can ''prejudice'' another prosecution brought against a future other suspect.

In Law,sometimes you only get one bite at the cherry.

Ray Jenkins

1/4/2018 02:03:55 pm

You are spot on correct Rubislaw.

alexost66

1/3/2018 02:01:21 am

Was there a zodiac smart? Definitely not.
What level of intelligence we can measure in this situation? Only the level of criminal and emotional intelligence. Let's look at the facts.

1. Two victims remained alive. The victim immediately turned into witnesses.

2. The choice of a knife as the murder weapon. The Zodiac chose the knife as more complicated than a gun an instrument of crime. This scene unfolded during the day, could be the first episode with a knife.
3. Correspondence. Zodiac really wanted to communicate, so left behind many letters and react to the headlines. Remember the story of how the found Ted Kaczynski. Ted Kaczynski showed his intelligence in choosing the murder weapon and conspiracy, but miscalculated the fact that it can give a banal phrase.
4. Paul Stine as a victim. It was an accidental victim , where the Zodiac had not thought of ways to escape and risked the most.
5. A large amount of evidence. The Zodiac left behind a huge amount of tracks: fingerprints, a few calls, handwriting samples, genetic material. Even in his letter, he tried to pretend that looks different than the sketch.
6. Calls to police stations. The main thing here is to understand one detail - the Zodiac called with the smoking gun every time or run away from the crime scene with a piece of Stine's shirt.
7. Typical items of clothing. Military boots, for example, was quite a strong characteristic on which to search for suspects and to calculate the size of the shoe more or less accurately.

In his letters you can often find the following facts, which are related to emotional intelligence:

1. The desire to be led by the nose, lots of different puzzles and ciphers. This discern children's desire to be smarter and better than his peers, intimidate them.
2. Competition with the bad guys - the police. It was like he was trying to punish someone and each time led a secret account of his "achievements." This shows the extremely precarious position of the man who is competing where there is no competition.
3. Borrowing. Found quite a lot of borrowing of books, movies, newspapers, comics. He's like a child copied what attracted his attention and tried to pass off as his own.
4. The desire to attract more attention. TV shows, headlines, phone calls. It behaves often lonely man, who tries to attract little attention and receive recognition. Yeah, I forgot about the badges on the chest.

Ray Jenkins

1/4/2018 02:34:38 pm

+1. I tend to agree with just about all of your points alexost. Yes, he showed an almost "child-like" way of viewing the world in order to justify his own desire to kill. Then there is the "scout-like" approach to maps and codes, and the way he frequently "spat the dummy" about seemingly trivial things like buttons. If he did not get any attention from the "grown ups" in society he would throw a tantrum and threaten to kill more people. Plus he maintained a belief that he was smarter than everybody else. In our more modern context, he comes across sounding a bit like that "Haha!" kid from The Simpsons. Then there is the way he tried to cover up his mistakes by making up comedic stories that would not be out of place in Keystone Cops, as if seeking justification and implying self-perfection. Also we see the banality of things stolen from popular culture, like the Tit Willow references and various comic book references. This all speaks volumes about his intellectual immaturity I think.

Intellectual and emotional impairment and intelligence are not a one way street of course. People can still function with reasonably high intelligence within the boundaries of their intellectual and psychological impairments.

Drew

1/4/2018 06:55:14 pm

Hi Alex, you may not be aware of this, but six of Zodiac's seven confirmed victims had vitals when police arrived, so I don't think killing his victims was his objective. Many of course would agree with you that it was, but it doesn't quite fit for me, especially in the Lake Berryessa scenario. How difficult would it have been to cut the throats of two restrained people lying on the ground? Perhaps that didn't occur to him, but I kind of doubt it. If it was his intention to slay these captured young people and leave no witnesses then you are certainly right, he wasn't very good at it and therefore must not be very bright. It's possible that he didn't care too terribly much about leaving witnesses. I think he cared enough about witnesses to wear the hood, but I don't think he stopped killing because of it. Anyway, I do thank you for your thoughts Alex and hope that you won't take my contrary opinion as anything but fodder for conversation. Cheers

Ray Jenkins

1/4/2018 07:16:30 pm

Yes indeed Drew. This is certainly a "thing to ponder" that has sometimes kept me awake at night. The fact of the matter is, if Bryan and Cecelia had not lived through their ordeal, nobody would have ever known about that elaborate costume. For the Zodiac it almost seemed vital to his whole persona (and therefore his immense ego) that they survived, at least long enough to report on what they had seen. And the Zodiac seemed to operate on the presumption that it was only by way of their survival, albeit it "short-term", that the story would make the headlines. However if the pair had simply been found dead by the lake, even if the Zodiac admitted killing them in a later letter, this would never had carried the same impact. This suggests a degree of planning and it is difficult to know if it worked out to the Zodiac's advantage by design or by sheer dumb luck. I suspect a bit of both were at play, but I do pause and wonder if he perhaps had sufficient knowledge of anatomy to know how to completely incapacitate a victim and elicit a drawn out and somewhat agonizing death. It seems to me that even the Marines would probably not be taught this as part of their training, although I have little understanding of their training programmes. Generally, Marines are taught how to kill and kill quickly.

Drew

1/4/2018 07:44:15 pm

The planning at Lake Berryessa was remarkable. Did he have the black marker on him just to write on the car door? I wonder if he saw Hartnell's white car before he decided to attack them. If Hartnell had a black car would they have spared? Probably not. The strange thing about his preparedness at LB though is that I don't believe he brought gloves. Hartnell says he doesn't remember if Zodiac had gloves but in the long dialogue transcript he wrote in the hospital he noted that Zodiac's hands were shaking. Combined with the latents found on the car door I think we can say he was gloveless. Maybe he had airplane cement on his fingers.

Ray Jenkins

1/4/2018 08:09:35 pm

That is a great point you make about the color of the car door and the black marker. Makes me wonder if he took some white paint with him too, just in case the victim's car had turned out to be a dark color. (?)

Frosty

1/4/2018 03:24:13 pm

The more complex words he spelt correctly, I have a feeling he was a smart ass playing dumb so even though the cyphers may turn out to be simplistic the logic behind them is ridiculously complex?

Ray Jenkins

1/4/2018 05:56:46 pm

Possibly, but you would have to ask yourself, why would a smart ass play dumb?

Drew

1/4/2018 07:20:02 pm

Hi Frosty and Ray, I think the Zodiac persona developed through the correspondences was more a character the killer made up to screw with police and entertain/terrorize newsreaders than it was a reflection of the author.

He may have been a legitimately awful speller but I don't think so, and if he was I doubt he was too concerned about it. Was he too lazy to get a dictionary, even when taking hours or days designing his 408 cipher?

The misspelling of kid as cid seems fishy to me, as do other misspells. The "adress" mistake in the debut letter that he fixed seems like an earnest attempt to disguise an embarrassing mistake, but the backwards K fix in the probably nonsensical 340 may have been his most clever manipulation. The spelling is definitely a mystery to me.

Frosty

1/5/2018 04:15:08 am

Hi Ray, I think Drew nailed it below ( and put it much better than I ever could ). It seems like a type of role play for some sense of gratification.

Also what better way to upset the 'blue pigs' than to have them think a simpleton was behind everything, a simpleton that they couldn't catch.

The guy definitely liked to stroke his own Ego.

Kevin

9/27/2018 12:24:11 pm

Iq is something that I would consider as a soft representation of intelligence. But there have been many cases of people excelling in certain areas based off brain activity. Personally I am well beyond the scope of an average brain for things such as math and psychology. When I was in middle school I was given a test in all subjects covered in school. My reading and writing ability was a grade below my peers but my math skills showed I should gave been in my senior year in high school. The same can be said about someone like Albert Einstein his understanding and abilities in math and physics was on a unseen level but many people don't know he had many difficulties in reading and writing growing up. So I would say that based off a brain that can complete ciphers that to this day bogel the greatest minds can be considered genius in its own right.

Nobody

9/27/2018 05:14:35 pm

Hi Kevin,

What you say is true, but how about if we consider the 340 cipher as a fake cipher? I think most anybody of low intelligence could come up with a set of symbols and draw them on a page randomly. I personally think the only clever bit was when the Zodiac crossed out one symbol and replaced it with another. I think he only did this to make it look like he had made a genuine mistake in transcription. He did this to make us to believe the cipher is genuine. A simple slight-of-hand trick. So yeah, I guess that could be called "clever" in a way.

John

8/17/2020 06:27:06 am

He must have been at least above average intelligents I still don't see why they can't catch him the is not complete they but if they narrowed it down enough then used the finger print you would still think they could find out who he is. I bass most of thinking he's so smart on the fact that he has never been caught.

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HOW INTELLIGENT WAS THE ZODIAC KILLER

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