CREATING AN INSURANCE POLICY

7/29/2020

When determining the usefulness of the partial bloody fingerprint on Paul Stine's taxicab, located on the dividing panel between the driver side and rear passenger door, it is important to bear in mind whether the opinion is objective or subjective. Is the analysis of the bloody fingerprint, its location and origin based purely on grounded reasoning, or does the person giving their views on the fingerprint have an ulterior motive for arriving at the conclusion they did? In other words, had they already reached their conclusion beforehand and just worked backwards.

Let us assume for a moment that the partial bloody fingerprint was the Zodiac Killer's, and was of sufficient ridge detail to eliminate suspects. How many people with an unwavering belief in a particular suspect, or who had written a book naming a suspect, would want this assumption to be correct? If your suspect is Kjell Qvale, then the idea that this fingerprint was Zodiac's and had enough ridge detail to eliminate your suspect, is simply too unsettling to consider. Therefore, it's in your best interests to discredit the fingerprint as originating from Zodiac at all costs. Never could you declare it was a genuine Zodiac Killer print, because your book has the potential to go up in flames. Effectively your position is cemented from the get-go. If the bloody print doesn't eliminate your suspect, then that is the ideal scenario and everything is great. However, why risk the possibility that it could eliminate your suspect when it is far easier to discredit or question the fingerprint and keep your suspect in the frame for murder (hopefully indefinitely). Whichever scenario unfolds doesn't matter, because you have crafted for yourself a no lose strategy. You have essentially created your own firewall of protection.

The teenagers across the street from the crime scene stated that nobody approached the taxicab in the time between Zodiac leaving the scene and the arrival of Officer Armond Pelissetti. When Pelissetti arrived, he claimed he saw the bloody fingerprints on the left side of the taxicab, stating "I seen the bloody prints as I approached the cab - I mean, it was totally visible". This was before the arrival of any other people, such as emergency personnel, additional police units, reporters and bystanders. However, if you choose to discredit the bloody fingerprints, then you have to consider the possibility that Officer Armond Pelissetti was mistaken or lying, police had no protocol for securing a crime scene, ambulance crews had reason to attend to the stricken Paul Stine - and then having done so - travel around the taxicab and check what size shoes he was wearing, depositing their bloody fingerprints on the taxicab exterior in absence of any gloves (that one would assume was imperative at a crime scene). If you fear these partial fingerprints ruling out your suspect, then it is probably circumspect to believe that the whole crime scene was a circus of wandering individuals following no rules whatsoever. If you believe these fingerprints were left by the killer and were to find they subsequently ruled out your suspect, then it is very difficult to employ a sprinkling of revisionism later, and now disingenuously declare the fingerprints invalid rather than your suspect. The bitter pill of being wrong is usually too hard to swallow, so it's probably best to hedge your bets and discredit them first.

The question has to be asked, as to why Arthur Leigh Allen was pursued right up to his death in 1992 for the Zodiac killings, if law enforcement believed the bloody taxicab fingerprints were deposited by the Zodiac Killer and had enough ridge detail to eliminate suspects in the case? One possibility, is that certain individuals in law enforcement were so blinkered in their belief that Arthur Leigh Allen was Zodiac, they themselves started questioning the origin of the fingerprints - unable to accept the fingerprints were that of the killer, having excluded Allen.

The real question is, if the fingerprints have enough ridge detail to be declared partial, or were deposited by the Zodiac Killer, would this possibility become too unpalatable to consider for certain people, when it could conceivably bring about the downfall of the suspect you have so carefully crafted over many years? Isn't it better to discredit the fingerprints first, then in the unlikely event the fingerprints don't eliminate your suspect, you can claim the spoils either way. The progression of crime fighting tools with the advent of DNA testing has made little impact in the Zodiac case. They are the new and improved fingerprint, but the same rules apply. Make sure you get your excuses in early - and if by some miracle a DNA fingerprint is procured from a stamp or envelope seal and rules out your charge - claim your suspect knew that biological material could be incriminating (or one day more so), or claim he didn't like the taste of glue from the stamps or envelopes, thereby recruiting random (can't remember) acquaintances to do the task for him - but above all - never accept a result will ever prove anything.

If a piece of Paul Stine's shirt was mailed, along with his driver's license in a letter postmarked 1990, then you would expect that the majority of individuals would relinquish or question their indefatigable belief that Ross Sullivan and Earl Van Best Jr were the Zodiac Killer (and other suspects depending on the date of the communication). That would be a mistake. Their first thought would not be, let's examine the mailing and side with the preponderance of evidence. Their first thought would be, let us do everything humanly possible to discredit the mailing at all costs. An admission of being wrong, simply a step too far for some individuals. The inability to accept we may be wrong has become an inescapable feature of the Zodiac case, whereas it should be viewed as a strength. Whether it be fingerprints, DNA or hard circumstantial evidence, for some the case will never be closed. Unless of course, it points to their suspect and no other.

46 Comments

Shawn

7/29/2020 01:54:39 pm

"If you believe these fingerprints were left by the killer"

The Zodiac wiped down the car. But he missed these prints evidently. Maybe the street light (if there was one) would not have illuminated this area.

This seems like an odd place for prints...back driver's side door handle area. Unless he got blood on his hands from blood splatter in the backseat or he re-entered the back of the car.

Richard

7/29/2020 03:15:36 pm

Well, you know my opinion on the fingerprints on the vertical dividing panel Shawn. Graysmith was in all likelihood correct when he wrote they were from the perpetrator's right hand. The Robbins kids did expand on their early testimony when they stated that the killer opened the driver side door from the outside and attempted to lever Paul Stine back into an upright position. The reason I believe their version of events is because if the killer had leaned into the driver side door to haul Paul Stine up, he would most certainly have had to brace his right hand on the dividing panel to create leverage. His fingers would have been exactly where the fingerprints were found. This corroborates the testimony of the Robbins teenagers and the correct statement of Robert Graysmith. This extra detail wasn't in the original police report, along with many other important details that night. Why the killer attempted to reposition Paul Stine is open to conjecture, but the kids witnessed it, and all the evidence supports their eyewitness recollections. The Zodiac remembered to wipe down all the door handles he touched, but unfortunately for him failed to remember to wipe down the dividing panel after unsuccessfully attempting to haul Stine back up. This is why I am extremely confident those were the blooded fingerprints of Zodiac and nobody else. The Robbins kids have never sought publicity and their testimony is wholly reliable.

Shawn

7/29/2020 05:03:00 pm

Were the fingerprints on the vertical divide recorded? I always thought the fingerprints above backdoor handle were the only fingerprints....recorded by police.

Seems like these documents at Butterfield's site suggest the police did record the vertical divide fingerprints.

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=59&pid=770#top_display_media

Richard

7/30/2020 12:46:45 am

They were recorded Shawn, on the site you linked. There were also blooded prints on the front right passenger door handle.

Scott

7/29/2020 02:00:52 pm

Well put Richard. It's always seemed to me that guys like Rodelli who are transfixed on a suspect must wear their socks inside out. Every piece of inculpatory evidence is hammered home while the exculpatory bits are carefully excluded or undermined because they threaten the franchise.

True crime buffs know the corruption that hops on the lorry when profit and notoriety are sought.

Richard

7/29/2020 03:41:50 pm

I have always stated Scott, that people are perfectly entitled to believe in any suspect they choose, but it will inevitably slant your perspective. If you have no suspect Scott, and I ask you to use geographic profiling, in accompaniment to the movements of Zodiac, and the letters he wrote, I would expect you to give me the likeliest location or home residence of the Zodiac Killer from your studies. If you had a suspect Scott, who lived in San Francisco, it wouldn't matter if you used the letters, geographical profiling or anything else, because I know you would have San Francisco in your mind already, and therefore would mold the evidence to the fit your desired result. If your suspect lived in Napa, your studies would reveal Napa etc. Home location is only one aspect of a suspect's bio, but somebody suspecting Ted Kaczynski would always arrive at Berkeley or thereabouts. It's counterintuitive to have Arthur Leigh Allen as your prime suspect, write a book about him, and then conclude via geographic profiling and the letters that the Zodiac Killer lived in San Francisco or Sacramento. If you have no suspect, then you don't give a damn where he lived, you can approach the subject with complete impartiality.

Judith

7/29/2020 10:34:57 pm

What I can tell you is this my suspect Peter Plant had been arrested multiple times in the state of California and convicted of crimes, and they had his fingerprints on file.
after his death,
California Department of Justice out of San Francisco came to see me in Sacramento regarding Peter as the zodiac. So I'm thinking if fingerprints meant anything they it would have either confirmed or eliminated Peter. I can also tell you this in all certainty that he would have never left fingerprints at any crime scene ever. He demonstrated to me on more than one occasion on how he could hide his fingerprints with a couple of coats of model airplane glue. He studied Criminal Justice at San Jose State and knew what the police would look for.
If I recall correctly this is a print made in wet blood as opposed to a latent fingerprint? could blood have brushed up against a print that was already there and made a print appear?
Anyway you slice it it seems as though no one has ever been eliminated based on their fingerprints.
Me myself I would like to see these crime solved one way or the other. thank you

Richard

7/30/2020 12:56:37 am

If blood had brushed up against an already present print, it would likely destroy the print and create a smear. Also, prints made with blood are distinct from prints with blood deposited after the fact. Everybody is different Judith, but if Peter would never have left fingerprints and it turned out that Zodiac did, there would be only one inescapable conclusion. If that turned out to be the case and Peter wasn't Zodiac, I suspect that would be welcome news for you. The thought of somebody you knew being Zodiac, totally different from being a stranger.

7/30/2020 03:14:03 am

Apart from people trying to discredit the validity of the fingerprints to keep their suspects in the race for Zodiac, the fact is that after 51 years these prints have not been matched to anyone, which is amazing, perplexing and frustrating.

Most of the major Zodiac suspects had brush-ins with the law and probably have/had copies of their prints already on file. Yet, nothing.

People like William Joseph Grant and Larry Kane worked in Real Estate, which requires fingerprinting. Again, nothing.

Many young men during that era served in the military, which started fingerprinting its members back in the early 1900’s. Again, nothing.

While it is definitely possible that Zodiac did not fall into any of these categories, you inevitably start questioning either the source of the fingerprints, or even if they were correctly filed and recorded by SFPD in 1969. Unfortunately, sloppy record-keeping by the police cannot be ruled-out.

One thing that may help resolve the issue of the validity of the fingerprints is a possible match between the fingerprints on the cab with fingerprints left on the pay phone at Napa, items possibly touched by Zodiac at Lake Berryessa or even on some of the conirmed letters he sent. A match would of two or more prints would solve this for everyone. However, for now we wait, ponder and doubt everting.

Richard

7/30/2020 03:50:18 am

12 points were required once to conclusively match a fingerprint. According to Pelissetti they couldn't come up with 9. However, they could be used to eliminate people, but not to conclusivey say one person was responsible to the certainty required. But if they had 6 matching points on one fingerprint, you could say that this print didn't match any of the fingers or thumbs of say Allen.

I remember Mark Hewitt stating in his now unavailable Napa bookstore appearance on Youtube that Allen had been ruled out via fingerprints and mentioned the blooded fingerprint as an example. The overarching takeaway from that video was that Mark Hewitt believed the blooded print was deposited by Zodiac. Fast forward to the advent of his third book naming Ted Kaczynski as Zodiac. We have a problem Houston. Mark Hewitt stated that fingerprints had ruled out Allen (therefore including the blooded print) in the video, but this presented him with a big problem - we have Ted Kaczynski's fingerprints, so if the fingerprints retrieved in the Zodiac case could rule out Allen (as he clearly stated) then they could rule out Ted Kaczynski. I believe Mark knew that, so rather than ditch Kaczynski as a suspect, he deleted the videos instead - and now has a completely different take on the fingerprints, essentially selling the argument we don't know whether any of the prints belong to Zodiac. A complete 180. People can change their minds, but just prior to the third book release indicates it was driven by less than an objective approach. You cannot sell the notion of Kaczynski being Zodiac and believe any Zodiac prints are on the letters or taxicab. Therefore, you question the prints while simultaneously pushing Kaczynski. The swift 180 by Mark is seemingly suspect driven, rather than a completely transparent change of heart. What other reason to remove these videos from Youtube.

Tim Reiterman published an article entitled 'Zodiac: 4 years later. What happened to the killer who kept the city in terror?'
In the article Dave Toschi laid out his thoughts on the Zodiac case, with one notable section: "Although he took care to wipe his fingerprints and boasted that he took other precautions, Zodiac made mistakes. Toschi said "police have enough fingerprints from the Stine murder scene and from a Napa County telephone booth, where Zodiac once called police- to make a positive identification if he is captured or surrenders."'

Richard

7/30/2020 04:09:14 am

I don't believe any of the high profile suspects in the Zodiac case match any prints because they aren't very good suspects. But that is just my personal view. It is not a route I like to take, putting all your eggs in one basket. Let the evidence drive the investigation, not the suspect you choose - Kim Rossmo.

Many people do question the source of the fingerprints, but again, what drives that doubt. None of us with 100% certainty can prove any of the fingerprints collected were Zodiac, I just attempt to go with the preponderance of the evidence, that the blooded fingerprint identified by Pelissetti was there before any other personnel arrived. I prefer that, rather than the notion the crime scene resembling a Black Friday shopping stampede with everybody randomly splashing blood around the crime scene.

Richard

7/30/2020 04:46:09 am

Got any topics you feel need covered Mo, I'm extremely fed up.

7/31/2020 05:27:56 am

Hi Richard,

You have been tremendous in your exhaustive coverage of the Zodiac case. You have done more insightful analysis with the limited publicly available information available to you than all the relevant law enforcement agencies combined.

The above being said, perhaps the following may be relatively "new" material that may be relevant to the Zodiac case:

1. Crimes Committed Before/After the Zodiac Persona: I know you covered a lot of possible Zodiac cases such as Koy Ien Saechao and Choy Fow Saelee's, Betsy Aardsma, Reet Jurvetson, Robert Salem,etc. However, as Zodiac himself explained, he killed much more people, including many in Southern California. Remember, he said "there are a hell lot more down there". If Zodiac did not leave enough evidence related to his confirmed killings in LHR, BRS, LB and PH, then another ray of hope is that he left some physical evidence during his other evil exploits. For instance, a "recent" case is that of the 1962 killing of a cab driver in Oceanside, CA. I believe there were another couple in San Diego killed by the beach (Johnny and Joyce Swindle). As mentioned, California was fertile ground for serial killings during that era and a few of those killings were probably committed by the man later calling himself Zodiac.

2.Confirmed Killings: There are people who believe that each of Zodiac's confirmed killings may actually not be a Zodiac crime. I'm not talking about Thomas Henry Horan's hoax theory. But there are people who think LHR was a drug deal gone bad, BRS was directed specifically at Darlene Ferrin, LB was a crazed copy cat and SF was a different serial killer than the ones in the North Bay. While I don't personally subscribe to this theory, I'm not sure that all of Zodiac's canonical crimes can irrefutably be connected to each other, except by way of comparing handwriting from his letters, which leaves some doubt.

3. While you were on vacation, I read some of your older posts. There were two posts that I especially found fascinating. The one regarding the Equinox Letter as well as the other covering the Eureka Card. In both cases, a person of interest was identified, but was "cleared". While neither of these individual maybe Zodiac, it would be very interesting to see if they can be associated with the Zodiac. If I recall correctly, a co-worker of the author of the Equinox Letter claimed that he was present at the Stine murder???

Anyways, thanks again for all your contributions to this fascinating case.

Richard

8/1/2020 02:08:01 am

I believe Michael Morford identified the author of the Equinox letter and provided the information in comments. The Zodiac, I highly doubt, began his criminal activity with a double murder in 1968, but I have my doubts about the Domingos, Edwards, Bates and Swindle murders. But certainly Mo, there should be a trail of this killer (in possibly lesser form) before the advent of Lake Herman Road.

I don't know about you Mo, but I've never had any doubts over Berryessa. Mainly because the reasoning given isn't backed up by anything factual. The evidence for the Zodiac far in excess of reasoning such as he used a knife, it was committed in the day, or somebody could have copied the phone call and handwriting. By the accounts of the reliable Hartnell, the killer had crafted a well made and carefully stitched costume. A copycat didn't require this level of tailoring, he would have mimicked the Zodiac handwriting on the car door and mimicked the payphone call to pretend he was Zodiac. Why would a copycat go to the lengths of creating a well tailored costume, only to kill both victims (which was the intention), thereby leaving no witnesses alive to corroborate it was the Zodiac he was attempting to mimic. A phone call and writing on the door should have sufficed. A copycat could have just worn a stocking or mask if he wanted to protect his identity from other eyewitnesses in the area. The only person who had reason to manufacture an elaborate costume well beyond what was necessary for concealment, was a killer who had believed his own press and was actually playing the genuine role of Zodiac. A narcissistic, ego driven killer who designed a costume worthy of his standing. A copycat has no such investment, he could have manufactured any old bag, stuck it on himself and painted the crosshairs. This killer had pride in his role, and the costume reflected that. Something a copycat had no requirement to achieve. A phone call and writing on the car door, in absence of any surviving witnesses, would have been enough. Besides, if people believe this was a copycat, who they don't believe was Zodiac - not only was he not a very good copycat - but they have to give some reason as to why the writing on the car door and the payphone call wasn't Zodiac, other than just saying it could have been somebody else. That isn't very compelling, just as dissecting the sample of writing on the car door isn't. Up to Berryessa, we have two crimes, which is hardly a resounding sample size to dismiss Berryessa because it differed. Especially when you consider that Presidio Heights would never have been considered a Zodiac crime in absence of what followed. For me personally Mo, I have never heard one valid reason to doubt that Berryessa crime as Zodiac.

We cannot irrefutably link these crimes, other than to say, the Zodiac Killer provided information only known to him and the police for crimes one and two. He left his writing at scene three, and took the crime scene with him at four. Nothing before or after. This unique information and the variance of 3 and 4, from 1 and 2, not that of a killer who deemed it necessary to keep killing couples to convince he was sticking to an MO, yet provided good proof of a letter writer and killer who was one and the same. He could have just used the same weapon throughout and saved us a lot of time.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/30/2020 06:16:00 am

I think that you are right about any of the high profile suspects being good suspects , Richard .

These '' suspects '' were largely concocted by the original internet researchers , as a choice for newbies . A bit like runners and riders for a horse race , as opposed to realistic identities for the Zodiac .

A main problem , I feel , is that these so-called suspects were too high on an Aspergers syndrome factor , and not high enough on a genuine humour factor .

The failing of the original researchers was that they barely had any humour between them , themselves , so it was unlikely that they would ever see any humour in the Zodiac .

Hence , the '' motley crew '' of dead-beats that were offered up , as potential Zodiacs , to new and unsuspecting site members .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/30/2020 12:43:39 pm

Within the context of the Zodiac case , as a study , I am forever finding little gems of humour , even though one accepts that anything humorous about the Zodiac , could be argued as in bad taste - simply because of what he represents .

Research on a probable Zodiac link to the letters attributed to D B Cooper , has shown that the Zodiac probably employed the expression '' Sent With Love '' , thereby adding some '' James Bond '' imagery to Dan Cooper's escapade . And a postcard from Longview from someone ratting on a perfectly innocent motorist with Oregon licence plates , a signing with '' An Opera Fan '' , immediately puts the Zodiac in as the No,1 suspect .

With events on Washington Street , in particular , it does seem that Mr.Qvale was viewed no more than a POI , by investigating police . They had wished to interview him with respect to that evening's tragedy , but it was something that a busy and wealthy businessmen had handed over to his lawyers , and wanted no further part of ( ? ) .For , if Qvale had been a serious suspect , then the police would have come for him , with the possibility of even making an arrest .

It was only many years later , and when Qvale was considering retirement , that he realised that the police were never going to let the matter rest , without interviewing Qvale in person .

Guilty of arrogance ( ? ) , and no more . It certainly appears that investigators' considerations on Qvale were that he could have been a pedestrian '' look-out '' for the man who murdered Paul Stine . And nothing beyond this .

Little wonder then , that when Qvale acknowledged Mr.Rodelli's interest in him , he was quoted in newspapers as accusing Rodelli of being '' insane '' at Rodelli's over-zealous attempts to speak with him , which had turned into inferred suspicions that Qvale could actually be the Zodiac .

Judith

7/30/2020 10:42:58 pm

Here is my issue with the fingerprints. No one set of prints matches any other set of prints from crime scenes to the letters. If you could show me that prints from the phone booth match prints from a letter or prints from the cab match prints to a letter then you might have something but right now I don't think you have anything that you could present in court.
Could have the zodiac cut off someone's hand or fingers and then use that to make the prints on the cab? Somebody shot that idea down once saying it was impossible?

Law enforcement has a suspect Matrix and I can assure you that most of the traditional suspects featured on these websites have been eliminated and are not part of the Matrix. I have been told Peter Plante is in the law enforcement suspect Matrix.
Would I like to know that it wasn't Peter? yes. but the damage is well done.
Do I believe that I got into bed every night for 20 years with the Zodiac Killer? Yeah I do. "Mommy Cat!" He would call me.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/31/2020 12:01:58 am

Certainly points taken , Judith , and I for one would not dispute what you say , nor infer that others refute this , either .

What we can be confident , I maintain is , that CA DOJ criminologists and senior FBI agents agree that the 4 Bay area attacks are the work of one man , In addition ,that forensics work carried out in 2002 / 2003 , by the FBI at Quantico laboratories on behalf of the Zodiac case's legal custodian , the CA DOJ , eliminated Arthur Leigh Allen , William Joseph Grant , and Don Cheney as suspects , by DNA profile comparisons . Work that has never been revoked , and signed off by officials including Dan Olson who still works for the FBI , and Robert Mueller who only recently retired from public service .

Whatever else anyone says to discredit the aforementioned information , is simply blowing cold smoke .

And , I would think it highly unlikely that the CA DOJ and FBI don't hold a full set of fingerprints from the '' one and only '' Zodiac Killer .

Nor indeed , a DNA profile of the Cipher Slayer , that has not changed , in any shape nor form , for at the very least , eighteen years .

Judith

7/31/2020 10:44:46 am

When oh when are we going to finally get a break in this case?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/31/2020 11:15:07 am

Well Judith , that rumour of announcements in a break in the case , amounted to the Crown Office's decision to arrest 79-year old Kit Harrison , for the 42-year old murder of moonligting escort and scientist , Dr.Brenda Page .

Brenda Page's murder does seem to have been the inspiration for the Zodiac's presumed July 19th 1978 typed letter to the SF Chronicle . Dave Toschi's fall from grace , and finger pointing at Arthur Leigh Allen , as additional content to that letter .

Brenda Page's murder re-investigation had started , five years prior .

So , Zodiac followers are left to assume that an '' un-peeling '' process has started , in order to nail the Zodiac for at least one murder . With other cases solved , along the way .

Unfortunately , uncertainty and the expression '' Snail's Pace '' seem to be very real .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/31/2020 01:02:27 pm

There is a well-known poster that goes on and on about the Zodiac stealing Bill Grant's car , and playing regular road games , with ( then ) Highway Patrol Officer , Lyndon Lafferty .

What on earth does she not understand about the Zodiac , much more likely to have bought a car similar to Bill Grant's , and then putting Grant's ( false ) licence plates , on this car ( ? ) .

'' Impersonation '' of someone else's car - not difficult to understand .

7/31/2020 01:21:51 pm

Hi Rubislaw,

Grant’s name sure keeps popping up a lot.

Do you think Grant knew who Zodiac was? A coworker, neighbor, disgruntled lover/admirer? With both Grant and Lafferty long gone, how difficult would it be to track down some of Grant’s “acquaintances” down? Shouldn’t Grant’s name appear in some non-Zodiac related police reports somewhere that may shed some light on his acquaintances?

I wonder if late 1960’s gay venues in Solana and Contra Costa counties hold some answers?

Rubislaw 32 link

7/31/2020 02:19:10 pm

I sure do believe that the Zodiac knew of , or indeed knew Bill Grant , Mo .

An interesting aspect of the Zodiac's first ( retrospectively ) official murder , was the double murder at Lake Herman Road .

And , which person emerges as the first adult suspect for the attack on Lake Herman Road ? William Joseph Grant .

BB has recently alluded to the mystery over a police report , on witness testimony by William Crow who , claimed initially that he was stalked by a Plymouth Valiant , which then changed to a Chevy .

Car use of LHR was not as quiet , that December evening in 1968 , as some might believe and , bearing in mind the quantity of witness statements gathered by the Benicia Police , does start to look persuasive that investigating police were left with high-probability of perception , as to the model of car employed by the Zodiac .

Almost , as if the Zodiac didn't actually care too much about his car being identified ( ? ) .

So , we then ask ourselves , how is it that Bill Grant came to become the prime suspect , for the murders of David and Betty Lou ?

We can only guess the answer to this , but there may be factors , such as lack of alibi and items belonging to Grant , left at the crime scene . Bill Grant , for example , was well-known for being a chain-smoker of Pall Mall cigarettes . Perhaps Pall Mall cigarette butts ( ? ) .

But , most damning of all , could be that Bill Grant's car was identified by licence plates . But , what the investigating police may have overlooked , initially , was that Bill Grant's car may have been impersonated - by the Zodiac's car .

7/31/2020 02:39:19 pm

So, Zodiac was trying to frame Grant?

But why wouldn’t Grant talk all these years?

Or, maybe he did but there wasn’t enough evidence to charge the suspect? It seems the answer may lie in police reports revolving Grant that have yet to become public.

For the record, Graysmuth claimed that detective Lundblad also questioned ALA sometime after LHR and long before the October 6 meeting with officer Lynch.

Sometimes you get the impression that Zodiac’s identity was a lot closer to being revealed than the 51-year cold case suggests.

Rubislaw 32 link

7/31/2020 10:22:22 pm

On the matter of Grant's prospective knowledge of the Zodiac , all I can say is that any extra knowledge on this , I made sure went to LE more than five years ago ( NCIS Washington ) .

So , that is in hand , should it come to anything .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/31/2020 03:04:22 pm

Absolutely the case , Mo , that the Zodiac was trying to frame Bill Grant , as he himself , the Zodiac . In fact , that apart from finger-pointing Allen , on three occasions ( by inference ) , the Zodiac was constantly trying to frame Grant . And , right up to the mid-1990's , when the Zodiac briefly assumed the role of Scorpion .

The information that the Zodiac held on Grant's past , appears to have stopped Grant '' running '' to the police , to '' tell all '' . With Grant even prepared to take the Vallejo Police to court ( and winning ) , for Police Harassment , in 1973 .

It seems that Grant believed that he could tough out this persecution from the Zodiac , believing that the Zodiac would eventually leave him alone .

If one reads '' between the lines '' in Lafferty's book , it does seem , and unbeknown to Lafferty , that special agents at the CA DOJ were , to an extent , hanging on to Lafferty's coat tails , in the knowledge that Lafferty was focused on Grant .

For , I would maintain , and continue to do so , that the CA DOJ have always believed that the best chance of exposing the Zodiac , was to follow Grant , as was the Zodiac often doing , himself , and making Grant's life a '' living hell '' , in the process .

Rubislaw 32 link

7/31/2020 05:09:06 pm

The ZodiacKiller Reddit site's survey on whether the Zodiac is still alive or not , is almost over and , it seems that approximately 20% of those surveyed , believe him to be alive .

SS Actuarial tables currently show a 20% chance of American males living until 87 years old .

If , as seems likely , there has been a general upsurge in official Zodiac-related investigations in the last 5 years , then the Zodiac , if alive at the point of upsurge , has probably evaded another 5 years of arrest and conviction .

The likelihood is that we are close to the cusp ,when the chances of real justice for families of victims will diminish rapidly .

How will it look for the authorities if , in explaining the truth surrounding the Zodiac , are found to have had at least five years when they might have been able to arrest him , but made their own judicial decisions , without consultation with anyone else ( ? ) .

I think the message should be made loud and clear , to the so-called authorities :

'' Either pull your finger out , or arrest the Zodiac for spitting on the side-walk , if necessary .''

Richard

8/1/2020 01:16:54 am

That is why I believe he is dead Rubislaw. I am not a great fan of determining age by voice concept because I have a tape recording of me at 57 and 33, and I cannot tell the difference. Of course you can tell the difference between somebody of 25 and 75, but 35 and 50, 28 and 40, over the phone, I very much doubt it. Could you imagine trying to work out if the caller at BRS was 30 or 40. Michael Mageau admitted he only saw a side profile for a split second, blinded by a flashlight. The only prolonged views of the killer was three sets of eyewitnesses at PH in a 5 minute window of time. Collating all their estimates, we arrive at at a killer around 40, thereby making him about 91 if still alive today.

The average age of life expectancy for a male in the USA today is 76, so the Zodiac would very unlikely be alive. It's been 19 years since his last possible communication that we are aware of. He could be younger, but although eyewitness testimony isn't the most reliable, we have 3 teenagers, Donald Fouke and the eyewitnesses described at Spruce Street noting the man entering the park. At least 6 eyewitnesses in a small window of time describing a similar age, more compelling than the sketchy testimony of Mageau or the use of voice concept over a phone. Wishing the Zodiac alive for some belated justice to be rendered, a far cry from what is most likely. I think any meaningful justice for the families has unfortunately long passed. I believe the only realistic justice that could be gleaned from this case, is identifying the killer and giving him the name of Zodiac and informing any of his children (if any) or friends of the true person who lived in their midst.

Mr Grumpy

8/5/2020 01:12:51 pm

Trying to make something of Lafferty's Zodiac encounter. If he knew Grant and saw Mr Z at the car park would he not have first hand knowledge if they were one and the same person? I am not understanding somehow the details of his encounter.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/5/2020 05:54:00 pm

We can only surmise on the '' encounter '' , Mr.Grumpy , but it does seem as if Lafferty was psychologically primed to believe that he would be dealing with Grant , once he spotted what he believed to be Grant's car .

As Lafferty has recounted , also , this wasn't the first time that a car with Grant's number plates had played '' cat and mouse '' games with Lafferty , as a patrol officer .

So , Lafferty had simply got it into his '' noddle '' , that this '' joker '' was Grant . It does , of course , ask the rhetorical question as to whether the '' joker '' ( Zodiac ? ) , perhaps looked a bit like Grant , facially , to have completed the '' illusion '' , as such , for the fooling of Lafferty ( ? ) .

Vanessa

7/31/2020 04:41:16 pm

Richard, I understand your frustration with the lack of published facts to work with. However, I have been reading your posts for years, and you are by far the most evidence-based, intelligent thinker/writer on this case. You think like a detective should- you follow the evidence only! You are also very kind and respectful. Don't quit on us... Take breaks but don't quit.

Richard

8/1/2020 12:50:09 am

Thanks very much Vanessa, I certainly won't quit because the case is so intriguing. What becomes more and more difficult as the years roll on is finding new and fresh ideas. The more you cover the case, the less remains for future discussion. Regardless, we'll keep plugging away. Take care.

Shawn

8/1/2020 08:28:38 am

"I certainly won't quit because the case is so intriguing"

You never know what might turn up if you keep plugging along.

I'm pretty sure that evidence will turn up in the next 5 years that will
progress the case significantly.

And you will only be 62?

Richard

8/1/2020 09:16:09 am

You mean old!

8/1/2020 11:24:37 am

Your old self is younger than your new self today August first.
I have 2020 vision only because that is the time we are in.
Other wise let us see if today will be the day.
If it is it is if it is is if it is it is if
What?
It irks that the legendary status for which he sought has now been achieved.
The August 1st 1973 letter threatened to kill somebody from the Albany Medical Center
on August 10th at 5.00 pm during a shift change. It was an empty threat though.
But, could he have meant the Albany next to San Francisco instead?

Rubislaw 32 link

8/1/2020 12:53:54 pm

Given that we accept the authenticity of the Albany ,BB , then your rhetorical question is as pertinent as any ,in the whole case .

Albany , CA is considered a beauty spot , and high-end residence , for some attached to Berkeley University . Much there , to attract the Zodiac , even if only a day visit .

There are 28 '' Albany's '' in the USA , and there is every chance of the Zodiac having elected to pick this place name for his ambiguous games .

The part-solve of the Albany cipher leaked by the FBI , allows some manoeuvre ,and my interpretation , points to the Zodiac's inference that he was familiar with a '' young '' Don Henley ( Eagles ) , when working for his father's auto spare parts business . This puts the '' Albany '' as being on the west side of Dallas , TX . The '' beginning '' as such , as the Zodiac's love affair with motorcars .

And , even a D B Cooper link , with '' Am alive and well...'' .

Rubislaw 32 link

8/1/2020 01:11:50 pm

...yes , some scoffed at that '' solve '' , but Henley's father was called '' Con Henley '' , whose business was part of the '' NAPA '' franchise .

And '' Vehical '' fits just as easily as '' Medical ''

Bespoke Zodiac misspelling - what more could anyone want in a solve ? ( lol ) .

Rubislaw 32 link

8/1/2020 06:18:32 pm

Some extra information , Richard , and for anyone interested in examining a cross-over , in the work offered by the FBI , as attributed to Heriberto '' Eddie '' Seda ( NY Zodiac ) , and the ( SF ) Zodiac :

There is available online , an article from New York Magazine , April 9th 2004 , with title : '' Kiss of the Scorpion Woman ''' . This is an article on Eddie Seda and his then new trans-gender wife and inmate , '' Synthia '' .

The article includes a love letter , from Eddie to Synthia , which concludes with '' I am the Zodiac The Zodiac I am . Sleep my little dead how we loathe them .''

It's the same Edgar Allan Poe misquote , as appears , superimposed around the Flag/totem pole cipher .

Worth a look , despite my opinion that the actual cipher , is the work of the SF Zodiac . And , a cipher that the FBI's Cryptanaysis Unit would have solved , with ease , before publishing it .

Why did the FBI publish ? I believe because , and in the knowledge that the cipher wasn't the work of Seda , they wanted to see if the SF Zodiac had actually decided to give up on having become '' Scorpion '' - which they suspected that he , the SF Zodiac would do , and revert to being '' The Zodiac '' again .

This , in the wake of Heriberto '' Eddie '' Seda's arrest , June 18th 1996 .

Richard

8/2/2020 01:28:06 am

I have tried Rubislaw, but unfortunately cannot make the Scorpion connection. I will leave this one for other readers to explore.

Rubislaw 32 link

8/1/2020 06:33:56 pm

As a postscript , when NY Time journalist , Kieran Crowley , and his father-in-law claimed that they had solved the Flag/totem pole cipher ,they had....but , in believing it to be the work of of Seda , was merely that .

The FBI can be '' very conservative '' in their responses or replies .

Rubislaw 32 link

8/1/2020 10:18:34 pm

Yes , the publishing of the Flag/totem pole cipher ,the reason for which I probably haven't made clear enough :

Essentially a '' goading '' of the ( SF ) Zodiac , by the FBI . Along the lines of : '' We are assuming , at this point that the cipher is Seda's doing , because we can't actually be sure what you are calling yourself , these days....is it '' Scorpion '' ? Or, is it The Zodiac ? . It would be very nice of you to let us know .''

Given that the FBI also published writing from Scorpion , and two ciphers , S1 and S5 , in this instance , is the FBI actually struggling to solve Scorpion's ciphers , and offering the public the opportunity to assist them .

Rubislaw 32 link

8/2/2020 08:26:16 am

Damning with faint praise ?

With a certain internet pioneer's fall from grace , in the last year or more , one assumes that he will be grateful for any contributions forthcoming ( ? ) .

One such donation today - but with the adage :

'' Long-time Lurker and infrequent poster ''

Hmmm.....

Does an insult come with the '' territory '' , Richard ?

Rubislaw 32 link

8/2/2020 12:56:04 pm

And , a reminder perhaps , of a recently discovered candidate for the Zodiac , in his persecution of Rev.Billy Graham .

Sent from Las Vegas , using a Billy Graham Business Reply envelope , which contained a Billy Graham Business Cheque , made out to Billy Graham , for the sum of $100 which , so clearly bounced .
And , accompanying this December 27th 1987 correspondence , was a handwritten note :

'' Billy Graham , you phoney want to be preacher , do you really think that a sane man would send you money ? A sane person would send you a bomb to blow your fuckin ass from here to oblivion . You want to know why ? Because you are an Asshole !!! - Your friend , The Grim Reaper .''

Refer : Billy Graham FBI File 2 , Pages 52 & 53 .

Rubislaw 32 link

8/2/2020 08:12:47 pm

Anyone notice , what looks like a cross-hairs symbol , beyond '' The Grim Reaper '' ?

Most strange .

Rubislaw 32 link

8/2/2020 11:19:54 am

Internet exchange of the week :

Poster A : '' Richard Gaikowski was 37 years old , on the day that the Exorcist Letter was sent .''

Poster B : '' He was also 37 years old , for about 300 days leading up to it , as well . ''

Rubislaw 32 link

8/4/2020 11:51:36 am

A recent claim at the Reddit site , is that ALA , Ted K and GSK have all been eliminated , as the Zodiac , by DNA profile comparison .

It is not my purpose to belittle the claim , but one really has to ask :

'' What actually is new , about this information ? ''

More specifically , can anyone name a high-profile serial killer who , when offered a plea deal , and accepted it , was later found to have reneged on the terms and conditions of that plea deal which , in almost all cases , involved being spared the death penalty ( ? ) .

Green River , BTK , Ted K .....these people aren't stupid , and their legal representation certainly aren't , either .

Everything has already been put on the table , in return for a life sentence - in the land of the living .

CREATING AN INSURANCE POLICY

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