CLOSING IN ON A KILLER

1/21/2018

The Zodiac Killer changed his approach from Lake Herman Road to Blue Rock Springs, in that, he decided to open fire on Michael Mageau and Darlene Ferrin on July 4th 1969 while they remained seated in their vehicle. Did his plans at Lake Herman Road backfire to some extent, that forced such a change. He may have wanted more control over the victims by keeping them boxed in their vehicle. But did the weather and the actions of Michael Mageau ultimately force the Zodiac Killer into a critical mistake, when he decided to return to the 1963 brown Corvair of Darlene Ferrin, to fire off his final four shots. A choice that would inadvertently reveal the likely home location of the Zodiac Killer.
We have previously examined the possibility of a phone call being placed after the Lake Herman Road double murder, at the exact same payphone at Springs and Tuolumne, described as a 'crank call' by Pierre Bidou. It was determined, that this being the Zodiac Killer, it had the possibility of shifting the time of the Lake Herman Road murders approximately 5-6 minutes earlier than previously thought, allowing the killer to head in the direction of Vallejo before Stella Borges left her ranch and declaring that she had passed no vehicles en route. After the first two attacks the killer would be heading toward Springs Road on both occasions, turning west and heading for the payphone to place his call, before taking refuge at his residence. The early murders of a serial killer are more likely to be closer to home, before he gains in confidence and ventures further afield, placing the area around the payphone of great interest.

1963 brown Corvair

Despite the understandable sketchy recollections of Michael Mageau, he may very well be the unlikely savior here. His description of the assailant's clothing and his reflex decision to seek refuge in the back seat of the Corvair may have been the undoing of the killer.
Michael stated two things in the police report. Firstly: "Subject appeared to be short, possibly 5'8", was real heavy set, beefy build. States subject was not blubbery fat, but real beefy, possibly 195 to 200, or maybe even larger. Stated he had short curly hair, light brown, almost blond. He was wearing a short-sleeved shirt, blue in color. Cannot remember if it was light or dark blue." Secondly: "States that he tried to climb over the back seat to get away from the shooting and subject kept shooting him again and again. States subject finally quit shooting him and apparently turned the gun on Dea and started shooting her again and again. States subject then turned around and started to walk back to his vehicle which still had the headlights on. Michael stated he could not tell if he meant to yell at the subject or if he just yelled from pain, but he let out some kind of yell. At this time, the subject apparently hearing him, came back to the car and shot Michael two more times, once in the back and once in the left leg. States the subject then turned the gun on Dea and shot her twice more." This final action by the killer may unwittingly have changed the course of the next 40 minutes.
The time of the year couldn't have been more different from the Lake Herman Road attack- the murders at Lake Herman Road committed in sub-zero temperatures of 22 degrees Fahrenheit, and Blue Rock Springs in very agreeable temperatures that averaged above 80 degrees Fahrenheit for much of the day, which is why the killer was described as "wearing a short-sleeved shirt, blue in color," something he was unlikely to have been wearing the night of December 20th 1968.
It is my guess the assailant's shirt was relatively light in color, and when Michael Mageau "let out some kind of yell", it forced the killer into something he hadn't planned to do- interact closely with the crime scene.

At Lake Herman Road the killer shot David Faraday once in the head, and Betty Lou Jensen while she was running for her life. His contact or interaction with the Rambler and victims was kept to a minimum. This was likely his intention at Blue Rock Springs when firing through the open window of the Corvair, but Michael Mageau effectively refusing to die and letting out a yell, would inadvertently scupper his well laid plans.
The first shots at Michael Mageau struck him in the neck (facial area) and once in the shoulder, before he clambered over the seat to the rear of the vehicle, in an attempt to escape the initial barrage. The killer also fired three direct shots at Darlene Ferrin, but struck her far more. Michael Mageau would have been bleeding heavily at this point, more than likely coating the passenger seat in blood as he clambered over it to seek refuge in the rear of the vehicle. The killer after firing five shots, retreated, but after hearing Michael Mageau yell, returned to the vehicle and leaned into the open window and over the front passenger seat, in all likelihood smearing blood on his "light blue short-sleeved shirt" and arms from the top of the seat. To angle the gun, striking Michael Mageau in the lower regions, and leaving two spent casings on the rear floorboard of the Corvair, he likely had to lean a reasonable distance into the vehicle. He then delivered the final two shots into Darlene Ferrin. This final action by the killer may very well have created blood transfer to his shirt and body, and ultimately transferred it to his vehicle. The wise choice, is now, not to make his planned phone call immediately after departing the scene of the crime, exiting his vehicle and entering the payphone covered in blood, but to travel home and get cleaned up, thereby minimizing the obvious risk when placing the call.

Click to enter Google maps

Investigators must have considered the possibility of the Zodiac Killer living in the proximity of the payphone because of the time disparity of a payphone only 10 minutes from the crime scene, yet a phone call being placed 40 minutes subsequent to the attack. They must have toyed with the idea, that the killer had remained in the vicinity.
They certainly must have searched for eyewitnesses to the phone call, and likely canvassed the surrounding area. It is highly probable that they knocked on the door of the killer and chatted with him briefly. Although Michael Mageau's description of the killer and his vehicle were sketchy, they had some loose indicators to rule out certain people. The investigators probably combed the area around the payphone for a brown Corvair, or a vehicle resembling it.
Nearly one month later, the Zodiac sent three coded segments in three letters on July 31st 1969 to the San Francisco Examiner, San Francisco Chronicle and Vallejo-Times Herald, giving details of the first two crimes to prove he was the actual killer. However, the Zodiac Killer was doubted as to whether the letter writer and killer were one and the same, and Police Chief Jack E Stiltz still wanted more proof, as detailed in the Saturday August 2nd 1969 San Francisco Chronicle. He requested the writer to send a second letter "with more facts to prove it." This may have proved the perfect opportunity for the killer to switch the emphasis away from his home locality.
He created the perfect phantom witness of a "negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed," who he would not only describe in unnecessary detail, but fortunately a witness that would verify twice that Zodiac was in a car, and it was brown in color. The Zodiac Killer has never been so forthcoming. By placing himself in his vehicle, he gives the impression he could have lived anywhere, as opposed to a killer who probably walked to the payphone. The unaccounted time between the Blue Rock Springs attack and the placement of the phone call, may be indicative of a killer cleaning himself up and removing the bloodied clothing, resulting from his return to Darlene Ferrin's Corvair for the final four shots. And Michael Mageau was the trigger.

Kim Rossmo talked about the possible home locations for the Zodiac Killer using Rigel: "There's a number of possibilities. But remember, Rancho Vallejo was possibly 26,000 people at that time, of which only 13,000 will be male, and only a certain proportion of those are of the correct age, and a certain portion of those are only going to be white. Then we start looking at the neighborhoods involved, we have a pretty small subset. Then we start combining that with some of the personal and behavioral descriptors, and then we work in the vehicle information. If this case was active today, it would not be too difficult to find this person." Apply this to a 20 minute walking radius of the payphone and you can see it's a very real avenue of investigation, if you can acquire the details of residency. Zodiac Killer-Geographic Profiling.

See also: A Stone's Throw Away.

49 Comments

Drew

1/21/2018 09:08:58 am

I've never been fully convinced that the BRS attacker went home or elsewhere to change and/or dispose of his gear before making the S&T phone call, but I had also never considered how vulnerable to mess he would be leaning in for his second round of fire. Like the situation Pelisetti imagined in Pacific Heights it would be a difficult mess to hide from observers and a foolish risk to incur after escaping a crime scene undetected.

I'm still not positive he lived near the area that he went to so much trouble to call attention to but this potential bloody elbow scenario proposes a mess he could not clean - it's one he could only cover. He wouldn't have had any option other than going home, unless of course he had an extra sweater in his car in the middle of summer.

Anyway you slice it making the phone call and cementing Vallejo as his area of activity was very important to him at this point if only because establishing a link to the LHR attack had to be the first part of his planned public campaign. Challenging as always Richard!

Richard

1/21/2018 09:38:41 am

You may very well be right Drew. As always I'm trying to wrap my head around Zodiac making a call 10 minutes away and taking 40 minutes to achieve it. He clearly went somewhere, either to ditch his weapon inside or outside, parked up somewhere mulling his options. The Zodiac has the option of driving, let's say, 30+ minutes away from the scene into relative obscurity and placing the call, Let us say he lived in Napa (17 miles from BRS) then placing a call about 10 miles from BRS on the way home makes sense. He leaves a good buffer zone from the crime scene and home. The same could be said if he lived 40 miles away in San Francisco- make the call 20 miles, equidistant to both. But here, he calls Vallejo police dispatcher Nancy Slover from Springs Road, extremely close to the police station and on a road cops may be responding along. He likes to take risks, but whether this is the case, we still have unaccounted time that needs filling in. Assuming he didn't live close to the payphone, but in Napa, then did he travel somewhere such as the lake on LHR to toss the weapon before making the call, or park up somewhere, contemplating whether to make a call or not. Possibly he took the latter option, but always intended to make the call, so as to deliberately square the focus around Vallejo. The problem is Drew, I'm probably considering the likeliest scenario based on what I would do, but I doubt Zodiac's mind operates like mine, and therein lies the problem. What do you reckon Drew-I'll always keep my options open.

Richard

1/21/2018 09:46:17 am

You state it may have been important to him to establish the link to Vallejo and LHR. Do you believe he ditched his weapon before the call, or kept it for insurance purposes-just in case he was challenged?

Drew

1/21/2018 11:23:08 am

I believe Zodiac showed enough cleverness that one should first consider the most intelligent strategies when trying to reconstruct the narrative - he may have made some sloppy mistakes but it is hard to deny the efficiency of the mystery he concocted.

My zodiac geek brother has always contended that Zodiac was residing outside the area he drew focus to but knew Vallejo well enough from a previous relationship. If my brother is right and the killer was some twisted CIA type (a profile I think you would be reluctant to assign) then I would anticipate a residence along the outer perimeter defined by the murders, possibly in the relative security that a commune would provide.

One idea that may lend some credence to this theory is that LB scenario you proposed a while back which saw the LB attacker en scene for several hours waiting for his opportunity. If Zodiac was this patient at the lake and patient enough to sew a costume and create tidy ciphers and write so extensively... he may have been patient enough to drive significant distances to achieve a safe buffer zone as well as a subterfuge plot suggesting he was a Vallejo man (adding the SF connection to avoid obvious detection of this).

If we build from the idea of a gloveless killer who wasn't terribly concerned with killing his victims it seems doubtful that a Vallejo local (at least one with priors in the area) would embrace this level of risk. The bloody elbow scenario trips me up because although I think he may very well have retained the weapon for insurance I think making the call in public locally covered in blood could have ended his campaign in embarrassment or worse yet put him in a fair gun fight and I believe he would moved mountains to avoid those scenarios. Assessing the level of risk this guy was willing to take on however is tricky indeed. Santa Cruz (known for its communes and crazies) is an hour and a half from Vallejo and is about as far as I would be willing to follow the outer-perimeter theory. Thanks man

Rubislaw 32 link

1/21/2018 03:41:36 pm

Nice to see the Vallejo map shown,Richard.

As with the possibility,that you have inferred,Zodiac,more than likely,returned home,put is ''war car'' back in his garage....cleaned himself up,then walked to the pay phone.

This probably places Zodiac,as a resident of the residential area between Springfield Road and Georgia Street.

It was a mild evening,with many people out and about,Bar-B-Q parties and fireworks...so,Zodiac would not overly be noticed as a pedestrian,as he made his way to phone.

I can never really understand why Zodiac would have extended his risk of being caught,by leaving his residence,to make that call,that he clearly felt,compelled to make [?].

Suggestions welcome.

Richard

1/21/2018 04:06:05 pm

That's the point Rubislaw, I believe he felt compelled to make the call. He didn't have to, he could have just written a letter carrying far less risk, as he did with the July 31st 1969 letters mailed 27 days after BRS.
He did it, because he enjoyed the attention and taunting it brought.
As Drew pointed out, there are many possibilities after he left BRS. At this particular moment in time I heavily lean to a killer living on the north side of the payphone at Springs/Tuolumne within a 15-20 min walking radius, possibly less. But I admit, it's just a hunch based on the unaccounted time and the 'Debut' letter, which to me, is attempting to sell us a story.
Did you know Leslie Lunblad lived at 1016 Ohio Street, 0.8 miles from the payphone. Zodiac was literally placing the call under the nose of the LHR investigator- if you can call 0.8 miles under the nose. I wonder if he knew this?

Rubislaw 32 link

1/21/2018 04:30:32 pm

I would imagine that Zodiac had no idea,that Lunblad,was a ''relative'' neighbour,Richard.

It does look as if that neighbourhood,was ''high density'',even then [?].

Yes,there will always be other opinions,but I certainly go with Zodiac residing,half way between Vallejo and Benicia....and assigned temporary employment at the Benicia Oil Refinery,during its construction,circa 1967-1970.

The Darlene Ferrin murder,was when the FBI were awarded jurisdiction on the case,as one now seen as the work of a serial killer.

I believe that they got off to a wrong start,by uncovering criminal links,between Darlene,and a ''car theft scam''.

The FBI were ''relative'' outsiders,and went with their gut instinct....when the reality was that this murder had a personal and local connection.....albeit,committed by a ''serial killer'' [!!].

For my ''tuppence,ha'penny worth'',anyway.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/22/2018 02:07:38 pm

Yes,your conclusion on the phone call made,seems to be the only answer really,Richard.

It's so important to keep an eye on the chronological order of things.....and this is before Zodiac got into his stride,on the letter writing side.

It is possible that Zodiac,had had an offer of a gathering/party in the vicinity,and made the phone call,before slipping into a group of revellers,most of them ''happy and inebriated'',with him making out that he had been there longer,than he actually had [?].

If Zodiac was [at least] a temporary resident of that area,he must have ''slipped through the net'' a few times,on accountability for men,of a certain age group,when police did ''post murder'' checks [?].

My feelings are that a major crime would be committed,by him,just before heading home,to his more permanent residence,in the South of California.

Drew

1/21/2018 04:55:30 pm

I just read a comment from Tom Voigt that's sure to raise some discussion about the Holt sample in his thread called "There is no Zodiac DNA profile -- and there never was". I haven't seen the primetime segment in some time but this sounds rather scandalous and hopefully unfounded:

"The partial DNA profile that was obtained back in 2002 by Dr. Cydne Holt for the ABC television show "Primetime Thursday" was collected from the outside of the stamp. No genetic material was obtained from behind the stamp, or the seal of the envelope, or anywhere else that would have most certainly belonged to the Zodiac.

What Holt found could have been left by the mailman who held the letter. Or any of a number of others.

Arthur Leigh Allen, Kjell Qvale and every other suspect "cleared" via a comparison to the Holt evidence sample is back in the running. And had "The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer" been successful in using said DNA to compare to Sullivan and Kane, it wouldn't have mattered had the result been negative.

My source is a retired SFPD inspector. His information was confirmed by Holt."
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/viewtopic.php?f=182&t=7945

Rubislaw 32 link

1/21/2018 05:20:11 pm

Very interesting information,Drew.

So ironic....just when ''we'' think that speculation is being refined,it appears to expand again.

Maybe Zodiac was a mailman [?].

Joking,of course.

Drew

1/21/2018 05:59:58 pm

I find the claim Tom Voigt's source has made difficult to believe. Allegedly Dr Holt found nothing under the stamp or on the sticky part of the envelope and rather than making this clear in the program (that Zodiac didn't leave a trace of DNA anywhere that would criminally implicate him or if he did a sample can no longer be detected) they say he did leave DNA and then they shoehorn in test results of materials found on or around the stamp. I'm going to have to re-watch the segment again but that doesn't sound purposeful to me. I thought they found an incomplete profile from under the stamp that was formed enough that it could include/exclude suspects. The DNA test that this claim proposes was done wouldn't have carried that significance at all and it would be very misleading to imply that it did.

Anyways, sorry for the rant Rubislaw I just read "Arthur Leigh Allen is back in the running!" being championed on Tom's message board and I became very frustrated.

Cheers

Greg

1/21/2018 05:15:10 pm

Interesting to consider how close Lundblad lived to the payphone. Was reading the other day that Lundblad's son is a convicted murderer. He apparently shot his wife in 1992 when he was 53 years old, making him 30 in 1969. No idea whether he was in Vallejo at the time, but his parents' house being so close to the calling point is certainly curious.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/21/2018 06:16:06 pm

No apologies necessary....what you have mentioned,is of course of potential significance,Drew.

Just to add to speculation,what is happening in the ''rotten'' Nation State of Scotland'',with regard to policing,is certainly worth following....anytime between now and Spring.

I keep a precised diary of events,at zodiackillermystery.freeforums.net

It could be ''everything'' and it could be ''nothing''.

All it takes,is one conviction,on one case.

But,that could be asking for a whole lot [?].

Richard

1/22/2018 03:30:58 am

Cydne Holt is an expert in her profession. But if we believe what's being said, then she would be throwing her reputation down the toilet by playing along with a TV show. I am not a forensic DNA specialist, but even I know the futility of swabbing the exterior of any envelope or stamp-it is utterly meaningless.
Email From Tom Voight: Update on Zodiac DNA testing:
"Dr. Cydne Holt recovered a partial DNA profile used by the show to "eliminate" Zodiac suspects Arthur Leigh Allen, Kjell Qvale, and Charles Clifton Collins. However, television trickery aside, the recovered DNA profile was actually taken from the OUTSIDE of the envelopes and stamps; for some reason Holt had instructions to not go under the stamps or envelope flaps. So, that profile could be from anyone who ever touched the outside of the envelope, such as the mailman, etc etc etc. It eliminates NOBODY."
So, are we to assume that the hair they found underneath the stamp
was television trickery and this clip doesn't show the rear, cut portion of the Stine letter stamp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCYbAdzCAjE&feature=youtu.be&t=24m52s

Richard

1/22/2018 03:33:29 am

If she was under instruction not to go under the stamps, why can we see the underside of this stamp with a portion removed.

Richard

1/22/2018 03:40:55 am

This is from ABC Primetime "However if Doctor Cydne Holt can find enough genetic material from Zodiac's stamps and letters, she can compare it to a wafer thin slice of brain tissue from Arthur Leigh Allen's autopsy." Dr Cydne Holt "This brain tissue from Arthur Leigh Allen is the reference sample that I would use for the comparison." Narrator "Dr Holt has already detected the possible presence of Zodiac's DNA in the seal of the envelope that contained the greeting card (Dripping Pen Card and 340 cipher), and just in case that test fails to provide a full DNA profile, she also prepares to look for DNA beneath the stamps on two of these three letters (July 31st letters)." Dr Cydne Holt "Depending on whether those DNA's match each other, might allow me to include or exclude Arthur Leigh Allen as potentially contributing the DNA on the Zodiac letters."

"Dr Holt has already detected the possible presence of Zodiac's DNA in the seal of the envelope" and "she also prepares to look for DNA beneath the stamps on two of these three letters (July 31st letters)." So this was just a ruse also. The letter seals on the envelope have been cut out in the video, which I'm sure would ruin the letters far more than just teasing away the edge of a seal.

Richard

1/22/2018 03:52:14 am

The three July 31st letters were later retrieved from an investigator who had them in his personal files. Here is an excerpt of the three letters with the envelope flap seals broken away from the rest of the envelope. So if they couldn't go under the envelope flaps, this short video clip suggests that is not true.
https://youtu.be/LCYbAdzCAjE?t=25m41s

Richard

1/22/2018 04:30:48 am

Tom from email:
"Dr. Cydne Holt recovered a partial DNA profile used by the show to "eliminate" Zodiac suspects Arthur Leigh Allen, Kjell Qvale, and Charles Clifton Collins. However, television trickery aside, the recovered DNA profile was actually taken from the OUTSIDE of the envelopes and stamps; for some reason Holt had instructions to not go under the stamps or envelope flaps. So, that profile could be from anyone who ever touched the outside of the envelope, such as the mailman, etc etc etc. It eliminates NOBODY."

Tom from forum when asked:
"Tom - do you know why the DNA wasn't taken from underneath the stamp?
I am assuming they didn't do this, because they couldn't? Or they tried but had no luck so resorted to the outside of the stamp instead?"
Reply: "Holt attempted to, but couldn't locate DNA from those places. Which makes for a crappy show, so they asked her to keep looking. It worked, but for TV purposes only."

If she wasn't allowed beneath a stamp, how was she unable to locate DNA from those places.

Alex Lewis WelshChappie

1/22/2018 01:36:54 pm

I don't even know why there is anyone in this amateur community still tasking Tom even semi seriously after seeing the way He goes about reaearching, settling upon & supporting suspects & evidence the way he does. He has no serious desire to get to the facts and find the true and accurate answers to questions still posing a challenge we answer them, he simply can't do. It may have began as a genuine desire to find the truth but a show requesting his appearance or two later it's bye bye objective thonking or Jon bias suspect or evidence and hello Ego!!'

Ignoring a piece or several pieces of evidence that is absolutely suggesting there is little doubt your suspect is innocent and your theory flawed because it makes sense to do this as it will mean, yes, you will not have to announce you were wrong (To me this would qctually bl an admittion I would make with no concern for my own credibility as I would assume it can only serve to help my crwdibility to admit I had a theory, turned out that theory be incorrect and let's move on)

To Tom, this very concept or it to be a possibility that ghee wrong is terrifying do it does not exist! Therefore to Tom Voigts narcissistic need to prove himself infallible he thinks it saves face and ensures the credibility house he has built doesn't cave into its own footprint by ignoring evidence he doesn't like, refusal to acknowledge any constructive criticism a d as with weather it be ABCs Primetime or the recent History Channel series it doesn't matter he will lie, lie again and then post anything he can that he assumes people are stupid tverefore believe it.

If you don't come out and bqsically declare Tom is God, God is never wrong, so lets support his theory never question anything God says and that is how to investigate!" then your not in Voids club.

All he is doing is giving imself approx. 100% chance to be wrong and while to a Moron like him it saves his credibility, it just astonishes me at how wilfully ignorant and totally dumb you would have to be not to see the seating yourself up to get shot down in hail of critical dismissive tutting when it is officially declared Gaik is not Z.

See, to me when I see him lying As he did direcly to me about Bob Loomis, then ignore Irish papers proclaim the arrival of American Journalist Richard GAIKowski on the first stop of His touring The European Continent proof GAIK was over my neck or fhe woods in Britain in for that period so can't send that Z letter from Postbox in any US State and Robert Loomis has a letter deform GAIK when LHR happened and is post marked Albany, NY just to give two examples. The Void answer?

Bob Loomis admired off camera to me Tom Void he had mixed up the letter dates before, and I quote, "recanted his testimony for Mty.Qst show and No proof Richard was out of the Country because I have searched and searched for Richards passport & it's elusive and 'missing' Chappie! I find this highly suapicious, don't you?"

Me: Umm, No! No i do not Thomas. Reason I don't is simple Voidey... Rich GAIK has been deceaaed just passed a decade now TooMassss. How many deceased individuals do you know Tom that Jet off here there & everywhere with American Airlines?

Greg

1/22/2018 08:17:26 am

According to the 1970 census, Vallejo had about 11,000 black residents who made up 16% percent of the city's total population of 66,700. I'm unsure the exact parameters of the city Rossmo is referring to when he specifies Rancho Vallejo and it having a population of 26,000. I've looked on Google and there's not much about Rancho, outside of some real estate sites.

I suppose since it was the 4th of July Zodiac stood a heightened risk of not being able to make his phone call unseen. Even after midnight on Independence Day people are still typically filling the streets as parties and fireworks begin to wind down. This is especially true if the holiday fell on a Friday night as it did in 1969. One could probably successfully argue, in fact, this would be the most active, crowded night of the entire year. The worst night for Zodiac, or anyone, to commit a murder and hope to slip unnoticed into the darkness. An alternative suggestion for Zodiac's 40 minute delay is that he was biding his time and waiting for the streets to be free of any (actual) bystanders who might see him making the call.

If the shabbily dressed negro witness was a ruse, it's interesting what this reveals about Zodiac's prejudices. Why not just say "a man" saw me and my car at the phone. Why is he a negro and shabby? Is Zodiac suggesting an impoverished member of the city's underbelly, as blacks in general often were only a few years after the Civil Rights movement came to a head in the mid 1960s and segregation concluded. As mentioned earlier, blacks only comprised 16% of Vallejo in those times, making the reality of this individual less likely, at least from a statistical standpoint. But again, Zodiac may have reasoned it more probable or believable to play into the hands of latent social prejudices and create a witness in the mold of a poor, vagrant black man, roaming the streets late at night. There was no doubt plenty of racial tension at the end of the 1960s and I do wonder how it factored into Zodiac's story about the phone call.
The other night in question, Oct 11th, of course involves another phantom black male adult. This episode has obviously been a controversial one as to its veracity, but nevertheless somehow an imaginary black male once again becomes the scapegoat. Maybe I'm going to too far with this, but I think the paranoia toward blacks was fairly evident.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/22/2018 10:09:00 am

Interesting to lay the ''Race Card'' on the table,Greg.

I note that the ''unconfirmed'' 1988 New Canaan letter has ''Zodiac'' playing on lyrics to ''Little List'',quite deliberately.

This includes : ''....and that n**g*r serenader and the others of his race....''

Albeit in a theatrical context,the writer of that letter chose those words.

In addition [....and I accept,controversially...],Rubislaw 32's solution to Zodiac's 340 cipher,alludes to Herb Caen making sarcastic comment on the assassination of two Black Power leaders at UCLA.

Down the middle column of the solution emerges :

'' COON U,U DID UCLA '',as an accusation of Claude Hubert,the presumed black assassin of Bunchy Carter and John Huggins.

Claude Hubert,being in the presumed payroll of J.Edgar Hoover.Hence ''Coon''.

So it is possible that Zodiac employed the words ''n**g*r'' and ''coon'',also.

But difficult to assess,where Zodiac actually stood,on the issue of race [?].

Greg

1/22/2018 08:34:57 am

I don't know if it was your intent or not, Richard, but I like the wordplay of your title. Closing In On A Killer sounds an awful lot like *Clothesing* In On A Killer, which us fitting given the article's content.

1/23/2018 03:09:29 pm

Alex - The reason Richard takes Tom serious is he is a polite host. And, Richard treats everyone with respect. By the way I agree with you that Gaik is not the zodiac killer. In fact, he should be eliminated as that type suspect. Gaik was editor of the underground newspaper that helped stop the Vietnam war. The paper was called the San Francisco Good Times. Which the fascist FBI shut down in 8-72. And, Gaik was smeared as the zodiac. Gaik was an American hero who railed against Nixon. He may have pointed to Richard M. Nixon as the zodiac in one of his ciphers though. He was a hippie and was a resident of the Good Times Commune. The FBI demonized commies as subversive enemies of the state under Nixon. As vise-president and as president too, remember Nixon's buddy was McCarthy. Still to this day the propaganda they put on us is so suppressive that people are scared and or confused about communism. They associate communism with the USSR but they were not communist. That was their propaganda. The USSR were lying when they proclaimed to be communists. Their whole thing was to keep the poor down. True communism is just like in good hippie communes - where egalitarianism and reciprocity are the thing. Sharing and caring and helping one another and all that peace free love honesty and good times sort of stuff is what communism is really about. This is what Gaik was trying to help us achieve. I think Richard Gaikowski was the hero opposite of Richard Nixon the villain. And, maybe Gaik created this zodiac boogie man character to sell newspapers. But, he never killed anyone. Also there are no suspects who fit every case. The best fit it seems for Edwards and Domingez is George Gill. For Bates it's Ross Sullivan. For Faraday and Jensen it is Phillip Bucky Stewart. For Darlene it is George Waters. For Cecelia Shepard it points to Arthur Allen. And, for Stine it seems to point to Lawrence Kane. They seem to be compiled into one comic book (Tim Holt) character the Zodiac.

Alex Lewis

1/26/2018 08:18:02 pm

BB: I know which counter culture magazine Richard was Editor of. The fact that He was editor for 'Good Times' Magazine has been used as 'Evidence' for his guilt based on Zodiac once writing that He shall be even more happy to recall details about the good times he'd had on LHR & BRS.

Personally when I discovered GAIK was in Europe stopping first in war torn Ireland and his visit was subject of a newspaper article in which it made mention that the former editor of a counter culture magazine Richard GAIKowski was visiting and had spent time with the writer of the article who stated he saw Richard physically shed tears for the state of poverty children were forced to endure because of adults disagreements, well it eliminated Richard there and then for me because if there is one single thing Zodiac was not not had an ability to be, it's compassionate or empathetic.

On the contrary, Zodiac shows exactly the opposite: Mercilessly killing kids then relishing in the act as he recounts it for readers. GAIK and Z are as different as Night is to and Day, or Ying to its opposing Yang.

1/27/2018 11:12:54 am

WOW! You rock Alex! Thank you! You and Richard Grinell are doing good for America. Thank you both! I say this with this in mind; A former big wig in the CIA William Casey said " Our job will be complete when everything the American people believe is a lie." This is to say we here in the States need you guys (outside the USA) to help us because the press and the police are fused here and we cant't tell what is truth. The FBI is just like the Gestapo they completely control us. The intelligence groups have all the power locked up and that includes the media. The people have no voice and no power anymore.

Drew

1/25/2018 11:06:17 am

Richard, do we know or would you suppose that both responding teams of Pelisetti & Peda and Fouke & Zelms would have arrived with their sirens wailing? I don't know if this would be protocol or not when responding to a robbery at night in a wealthy neighbourhood.

I wonder if Zodiac was rounding the corner of Jackson and Cherry when he first heard Lindsey's footsteps approaching from Washington and Cherry behind him. If Zodiac then heard sirens coming down Cherry and pausing at Washington, and then from Jackson near Maple I wonder if Zodiac would/could have hid in the bushes and listened for the coast to be clear while viewing Fouke & Zelms encounter the WMA.

Have you developed any opinions about whether the aural signifiers of the unfolding action may have influenced the Zodiac during this escape to Spruce?

Richard

1/25/2018 11:52:37 am

They almost certainly were arriving red light and siren, even Pelissetti admitted it.https://youtu.be/HI0jnsbZwys?t=1h13m45s
Zodiac could easily have hidden from Fouke & Zelms Drew, but I believe he chose not to, because he had his back up "man waving a gun" story ready, backed up by a gun if necessary. I have never considered the Zodiac spotting another person being stopped by Fouke as a realistic possibility. The timing Zodiac left the taxicab matches perfectly with a Jackson/Maple meeting with Fouke. In addition, the facial description and clothing of the WMA by Fouke, near matches the description given by the teenagers. To believe a random person existed other than Zodiac, who just happened to match the teenagers description is highly unlikely (this is obviously regarding the one assailant theory).
I believe Zodiac feigned the move into Maple, then continued to Spruce (approximately 2 mins journey time). If Fouke continued to Arguello, as he contended in the 1989 documentary, then got the update to a WMA, he probably realized the man he had just passed may have sold him a lie. Believing the man may have entered the park via Maple, he swings around into West Pacific Avenue, still red light and siren. Scouring the park slowing, heading to Julius Khan playground, the neighbours in the area of Spruce, obviously alerted to the red light and siren, likely peer from their curtained windows. An equal time has elapsed (around 2 mins) for Fouke and Zelms to arrive here. I believe Zodiac waited for them to finish their search and drive off. When the coast is clear, Zodiac departs Spruce into the Julius Khan playground. However, the neighbours are still likely looking out of their windows and spot Zodiac running into Julius Khan playground. These are the eyewitnesses described in the October 12th newspaper article, describing a man resembling the descriptions given by Fouke and the teenagers. It was Zodiac. The red light and sirens of Fouke's patrol car was the reason more than one eyewitness saw the 'running man' at 10.01-10.02 pm at night, when normally curtains would be closed. The lights and siren was the reason that Zodiac was spotted. That is my belief Drew, but the timing does tally with Fouke's later recollections in the 2007 documentary.

Drew

1/25/2018 12:43:12 pm

I completely agree with this logic Richard, the odds heavily favour an interpretation that Fouke indeed eyed the Zodiac. I wonder if Fouke knocked on the door he believed the WMA approached that evening and no one answered leaving him to forever speculate. If he did knock and someone other than the WMA he saw answered then I guess he would have known if he was correct. The way Fouke has presented the information in front of cameras seems to render the idea that he followed up doubtful. Pelisetti's statement that he didn't believe the Fouke suspect was Zodiac suggests that other LE representatives that evening may have felt the same way, so Fouke may not have been encouraged to follow up and instead was put to work on one of the park search teams. I assume as a patrolman rather than a detective or determined movie character Fouke probably never felt obliged to follow up. Thanks for your thoughts Richard.

Richard

1/25/2018 01:05:14 pm

Fouke's claim of a man walking up steps to a residence, if it ever happened, likely wasn't followed through at any stage Drew. In the 2007 documentary he was challenged on this, and said "let the inspectors follow through." It never was, or at least nothing supports it ever was. Pelissetti stated in the 2007 documentary that he felt sorry if Fouke believed he had seen Zodiac, because he certainly "would have seen the shine of blood on his clothes." But, other than possibly a little bit of blood on Zodiac's hands, which can be easily wiped off, there is no reason why Zodiac should be covered in blood. The teenagers were 50-60 feet away at night, in less than perfect lighting, so to take their recollection of Zodiac cradling Paul Stine's head in his lap as fact, rather than their perception is misleading. I don't know that any killer having shot a person in the head, in the manner Stine was executed, creating massive blood loss, would then place the victim's head in their lap. Zodiac was an evil bastard, but he wasn't that stupid. Zodiac only had to stoop over Stine to tear or cut the shirt. The vast majority of blood inside the taxicab was in the passenger footwell, with remarkably little on the passenger seat, so Zodiac had no reason to be covered in blood as Pelissetti assumed him to be.

Drew

1/25/2018 01:34:46 pm

Yes, the killer cradling the victim in his lap idea has never sounded likely to me, especially for Zodiac who seemed reticent to get too close to his victims.

Regarding the imperfect lighting conditions in which the Zodiac was witnessed, I posted a nutty idea in one of your earlier articles, offering that an interior light centred overhead may have backlit the killer's face rather than illuminate it. The dispatcher may have misinterpreted a description that 'the face was dark' (due to his head blocking the light). Unless the NMA dispatch was fiction, the dispatcher must have misunderstood something said during that call which seemed to be made while the killer was still in the cab. If the nervous caller didn't specify the culprit's race then the dispatcher would have asked. If the caller did specify it's hard to imagine how the dispatcher could have misunderstood.

I have been unable to determine what kind of interior light would have been in that yellow cab, and of course I am only guessing about how the light would have spread.

Richard

1/25/2018 01:47:09 pm

That is without doubt the best explanation I have heard for a mistaken interpretation of the skin colour of the subject. If the BMA wasn't a cover story I could well see how something transpired between teenager and dispatcher, when the dispatcher asked for a possibly a facial description, and the teenager explained "it was dark", meaning the light was poor, and the dispatcher interpreted this as his "face was dark". This is a great idea Drew, something I certainly had never considered.

Drew

1/25/2018 01:51:33 pm

"That is without doubt the best explanation I have heard for a mistaken interpretation of the skin colour of the subject." Wow, that's awesome!

John

1/27/2018 11:41:47 am

Hello Drew,

I am not 100% sure, but I believe the cab is a late 60s Ford Galaxie 500. If that is the case, those cars have one light in the middle of the roof.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/25/2018 05:08:40 pm

Very interesting,to read the discussion,between you and Drew,Richard.

These matters are naturally,difficult to assess.

Though I really have no idea,if it would make a difference,either way,I have read,in an official report,that the cap on the overhead light,in Stine's cab,was found to be broken,with part of the cap missing.

The inference being that the illumination of the interior,would have been ''more glaring'',than normal.

Whether it allowed visual interpretation to be distorted,I really couldn't say.

Drew

1/27/2018 12:40:13 pm

Thanks for the info Rubislaw and John! This is encouraging for the backlit face theory I believe. As long as there was only one light, glaringly bright or not, it gives us the trajectory. The high angle vantage point that the witness across the street had likely would not include a view of the top of the Zodiac's head while he was in the cab, so even if there was a bright halo effect revealing a caucasian crewcut it wasn't likely to be observed.

Of course once the killer leaves the cab the witness would be able to make a fair assessment (and I believe she was still on the phone when he turned down cherry). The only way the theory works is if the witness said something that accidentally and falsely indicated a specified race while he was still inside. Additionally, the witness would also have to have failed to directly address the race issue after he left the cab but before ending the phone call. An adult likely would not have gotten off the phone if they hadn't relayed this important race information. I can imagine nervousness or confusion explaining this oversight in a teenage witness, but I can't see a mistake being made if the question of race was asked after the Zodiac left the cab. Thanks for the thoughts!

Rubislaw 32 link

1/27/2018 05:36:07 pm

Yes Drew,as you have alluded to,the [perhaps] greater than normal illumination of the cab,might have increased the ''visual contrast''....i.e. at certain angles,an increased contrast,between light and shade [?].

Zodiac's ''shadiness'',both literally and figuratively,creating an illusion [!].

Tahoe27

1/28/2018 11:39:57 am

Just an interesting tidbit I found out a while back...thanks to my "Polk". Andy....the guy the cops pulled over at LB...his uncle (I believe it was) lived just up the road off Tuolomne. Of course Andy had been taken in, so this would require some sort of conspiracy..or familial involvement. Most likely, Vallejo...a small town with lot of ties and locals living near certain areas.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/28/2018 02:59:32 pm

Most interesting,''Tahoe 27''.

I admire the quantity and quality of your research,by the way.

As with Richard.

Tahoe27

1/28/2018 07:23:38 pm

Thank you Rubislaw. :)

There was also an association to an address/business 2 blocks south of the phone booth on Tuolumne. Just around the corner from Darlene's house. Also on Springs Rd., but just off Columbus PKWY was "Mike's Bottle Shop"--the Polk has a lot of that family listed with that as the "employer"....maybe someone in the family owned it.

Drew

1/29/2018 01:20:59 pm

Hi, with the assistance of 'Super Sleuth' on Tom's board I have concocted a theory about the gloves found in and the print found on the Stine cab. If Zodiac did not have a knife or cutting apparatus (as Rebecca believed she observed) then perhaps Zodiac was initially wearing the gloves that were discovered, but discarded them when he realized that he could not complete the shirt-tearing operation with them on, rendering him vulnerable to leaving a print while completing his final task of setting Stine upright.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2018 02:10:21 pm

This can all come down to which reports,one believes,Drew [?].

I have read that Zodiac required a knife,and one was seen,that he used to remove part of Stine's shirt.

It probably makes sense that Zodiac would have brought some sort of extra weapon,in addition to a gun,if only as a sort of ''psychological'' back up.If for example,he found himself in a position,that he needed to defend himself.

Zodiac surely would have not have worn gloves to use and fire a weapon.Unless they were drivers gloves,or golf gloves.

Personally,I think it is unlikely that Zodiac carried,or wore any gloves.The wiping down with a [probable] handkerchief,of prints left in areas of the vehicle,was possibly something that Zodiac was aware that he might have to do,and if he felt he had the time.

I have read that the gloves,found in the front well of the cab,were ladies gloves,left by a previous customer,set aside by Stine.

Naturally,the ''gloves issue'' is tantalising....and the police aren't going to tell us.

I just think that Zodiac had too much to think about,and too much ''handiwork'' to achieve,to consider wearing,or carrying gloves,with him.

Drew

1/29/2018 02:41:26 pm

I must have missed the part where they specified lady gloves. I could believe that Rebecca misidentified a gun as a knife if all she was certain of observing was glimmering steel and speculated from that, as they didn't know he was a gunman at this time, but if they were ladies gloves that were left behind that puts the theory to bed as far as I'm concerned. Thanks Rubislaw!

Richard

1/29/2018 02:53:03 pm

I used to believe the shirt piece was torn by hand, as this was often touted. But unless the killer was trained specifically in the ability to tear clothing by hand, such as a medic, claimed by some, then I find this unlikely for two reasons. Zodiac carried a gun and knife at Berryessa, and we don't know for certain this wasn't the case at LHR and BRS. He may have carried both types weapons to each crime, for a back up or just in case scenario.
Rebecca saw blood and said out loud, "he's stabbing that man." She was seeing blood on the victim and saw the glint of a knife, so she assumed a stabbing was taking place. If this were true, then it's a plausible argument he used the knife to cut the shirt. If the killer had planned in advance to take a portion of clothing to send to the newspapers, and Paul Stine was a random victim, then he had no way of knowing in advance what particular material the taxicab driver was wearing. It may have been any type of fabric, and could easily have been a fabric that was unable to be ripped by hand. If the 'clothing piece' was your intention before setting off on the murder, the logical thing to have done would have been to take a knife or scissors, to not only increase your chances of obtaining a square of clothing, but to increase the speed you achieve your objective. If Rebecca saw the glint of a knife, and bearing in mind Paul Stine was shot, makes a good case for a knife being used to remove the swatch of shirt. If he tore the shirt by hand, we have to dismiss the knife sighting as erroneous on Rebecca's part. In addition we would have to believe that he removed his gloves to tear the shirt, and then simply forgot the gloves, or put them in his pocket from which they fell out onto the taxicab floor. I think, that in the light of reasonably credible eyewitness testimony, that Zodiac likely used a knife to cut Paul Stine's shirt. But that is just my opinion and I could easily be wrong.

Richard

1/29/2018 03:04:15 pm

Graysmith claimed in his first book that the gloves discovered, were linked to an earlier female passenger. But in Zodiac Unmasked he used the size 7 gloves to bolster his case against Arthur Leigh Allen, who wore size 7 gloves. This is why we cannot always take Robert Graysmith at his word. Having a strong pet suspect can make you twist 'facts' to suit. Claiming the gloves bolsters his case against Allen, effectively negates his argument regarding the female passenger, and vice versa. I don't believe they were Zodiac's gloves, but proving it is another matter.

Drew

1/29/2018 03:23:45 pm

After Lake Berryessa it is certainly not unlikely that he carried a gun and a knife. For a guy who had the foresight to bring strands of pre-cut cloths line and to take a marker to write on the car door, I doubt he would have forgotten to bring a cutting apparatus to San Francisco. I think cutting the shirt must have been planned because it would be an implausibly brazen decision to make spontaneously. However, if he was so organized he must have at least considered wearing gloves. The lack of evidence that he wore gloves makes me revert to believing his airplane cement claim. If Zodiac was Stine's second fare that night then his first airport passenger may have been female or they were left there before Stine went on duty. The most difficult part as you say may be that only Graysmith made this gender claim (as far as we know) and that he later contradicted himself by saying they belonged to a man.

Rubislaw 32 link

1/29/2018 04:32:35 pm

An interesting discussion....and I think that we are agreed that Zodiac ''probably'' carried a knife [?].

On the conjecture of the gloves,we must also bear in mind what Zodiac was prepared to show of himself,as a plausible passenger.It would certainly have looked strange if he was,for example,wearing driver's gloves [?].And,the ''airplane cement'' idea is ''balderdash'' [!].

In all probability,Zodiac left the scene of the crime,with Stine's wallet,car keys,shirt swatch.In addition,Zodiac's own wallet,a handkerchief,a gun,a knife.

Quite a collection,to manage and think about,when these items were all to be ''about his person'' [?].

A consolation,perhaps,if there were no Zodiac gloves,left behind,is a reasonable possibility that the ''city A-Z'',found at the crime scene,was Zodiac's also [?].

Another possible source of forensics,for the investigating police.

Drew

1/29/2018 05:26:02 pm

It says mens gloves at the top of this report:
http://www.zodiackiller.com/SR7.html

tahoe27

2/1/2018 07:21:06 pm

They were men's gloves. DNA found two different males...one probably Stines. It was initially mentioned they were women's, but DNA has confirmed otherwise.

Rubislaw 32 link

2/2/2018 02:55:43 pm

This is good to know,Tahoe 27,and thanks for the information.

Sadly,we are none the wiser,if a pair belonged to Zodiac.But we know that investigating police obtained enough forensics,to be able to confirm that Stine was murdered by Zodiac.

These extra pieces of information will be ''rewards'',when the whole case is solved.

When that happens,Zodiac will technically ''capitulate'',and ''tell all''.

Hopefully,''L.E.'',also [?].

CLOSING IN ON A KILLER

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