ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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CIPHER EXPERT DARES ZODIAC

11/11/2018

 
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As early as August 10th 1969, Professor D.C.B. Marsh of the American Cryptogram Association (ACA) was commenting on the Zodiac ciphers. In the San Francisco Sunday Examiner & Chronicle, he praised Donald Harden's deciphering skills and called the code "complicated and obviously drawn by somebody who knows his business". 
​
The Zodiac Killer had already responded to prompts by Vallejo Police Chief Jack Stiltz to send more details to prove the letter writer and killer were one and the same. The more the Zodiac Killer wrote, not only lessened his time for killing, but may have provided additional clues to detectives regarding his identity. This tactic was likely adopted by Professor D.C.B. Marsh in the 
October 22nd 1969 San Francisco Examiner newspaper article by Will Stevens, which laid down a challenge to the Zodiac Killer to reveal his name. The newspaper stated "Dr Marsh told the Examiner today: "The killer wouldn't dare, as he claimed in letters to the newspapers, to reveal his name in the cipher to established cryptogram experts. He knows, to quote Edgar Allen Poe, that any cipher created by man can be solved by man. Zodiac has not told the truth in his cipher messages to the Examiner, the Chronicle and the Vallejo Times-Herald. Zodiac has not done this, because to tell the complete truth in relation to his name -in cipher code - would lead to his capture. I invite Zodiac to send The American Cryptogram Association a cipher code - however complicated - which will truly and honestly include his name".

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PictureEdgar Allan Poe
Clearly, Dr. Marsh and the detectives would have considered it highly unlikely for the Zodiac Killer to respond by giving us his name, but while he was constructing ciphers he wasn't murdering innocent civilians. There also remained an outside chance that Zodiac would rise to the challenge and create a code, "however complicated", that Dr Marsh and his fellow cryptographers could unpick. This article, rather than a straightforward challenge to Zodiac, could have been deliberately manufactured with the assistance of detectives, to bait the Zodiac Killer into using a particular methodology in his cipher construction. If the police knew the source of Zodiac's inspiration, then it could unearth the cipher technique he employed when designing his next code

'Nobody', a contributor to this site, considered the idea that the Zodiac Killer may have used a foreign language in the cipher, or possibly a rotating key that switches at certain intervals. By employing such a technique, the Zodiac Killer could make the cipher virtually "crackproof". The article in the October 22nd 1969 San Francisco Examiner may have been specifically designed to lead the Zodiac Killer down a particular path, making his next cipher easier to crack. Dropping innocuous sections of text into an article such as "to quote Edgar Allen Poe, that any cipher created by man can be solved by man", can be specifically designed to guide the Bay Area murderer into using one of Edgar Allan Poe's cipher techniques or a model suggested by him. We know the Zodiac Killer was an avid reader of the newspapers and may have took this bait of using a publication by Edgar Allan Poe, thinking he was getting one over on Dr Marsh and the police. The hope from the standpoint of law enforcement, was that the Zodiac Killer would bite the hook and get reeled in. 

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PictureClick for Michael Cole's article
Sixteen days later, the Zodiac Killer mailed the 340 cipher revealing - not his name - but his identity carefully positioned at the base of his cipher. This bolstered the idea that the Zodiac Killer had indeed responded to the article by Dr Marsh, but wasn't quite ready to reveal his name to authorities just yet. But it is my belief that the Zodiac Killer did create the 340 and 13 Symbol ciphers in tandem, with a view to inextricably link his identity to his name using the word "Zodiac" on the final row of the 340 cipher, with the three 8's as the conduit between the two. See here.


The Zodiac Killer, however, would hold back his 13 Symbol cipher for approximately six months. Zodiac researcher Michael Cole stated "Clearly, the Zodiac did not send the cryptogram to Marsh, as had been requested (this non-public way of satisfying the challenge was apparently unacceptable to the attention-craving serial killer). Neither did he respond in a time frame that most would have expected. But these details matter little. In fact, the timing itself provides yet another reason to conclude that what we have here is a specific instance of cause and effect. As mentioned, this article was published in the Examiner on October 22, 1969.  Six months to the day later, April 22, 1970, the people of the San Francisco Bay Area were reading about the My Name Is cipher in the Chronicle".

But there may have been a much more cunning reason why the Zodiac Killer delayed his mailing of the April 20th 1970 communication, and it has everything to do with Edgar Allan Poe. Did the Zodiac Killer pick up on the wording of Dr. D.C.B. Marsh in the article, and so create and mail his 13 Symbol cipher based on something in the writings of Edgar Allen Poe?

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We can see in the Edgar Allan Poe essay 'A Few Words on Secret Writing' - at the very beginning he shows the alphabet being split into two halves of 13 letters, A to M, and N to Z. Below is a section of the text:

"Were two individuals, totally unpractised in cryptography, desirous of holding by letter a correspondence which should be unintelligible to all but themselves, it is most probable that they would at once think of a peculiar alphabet, to which each should have a key. At first it would, perhaps, be arranged that a should stand for z, b for y, c for x, d for w, &c. &c.; that is to say, the order of the letters would be reversed. Upon second thoughts, this arrangement appearing too obvious, a more complex mode would be adopted. The first thirteen letters might be written beneath the last thirteen, thus:
n o p q r s t u v w x y z
a b c d e f g h i j k I m; and, so placed, a might stand for n and n for a, o for b and b for a, &c. &c. This, again, having an air of regularity which might be fathomed, the key alphabet might be constructed absolutely at random".
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The Zodiac Killer not only created the April 20th 1970 cipher with 13 characters, but it too began with an A and ended with an M, just like the suggested encryption technique featured by Edgar Allan Poe. Notice the way the cipher is organized symmetrically using the alphabetical characters, the three 8's and the two symbols. The same symmetry was observed when placing half the alphabet alongside the 13 character cipher. See here.  

The Dr. Marsh newspaper article opened with "A Challenge perhaps unique in the annals of American crime was injected today into the bizarre case of the killer who begins his letters to newspapers 'This is the Zodiac Speaking". The article continued, and bemoaned the fact that Zodiac hadn't revealed his true identity, stating  "Zodiac has not done this, because to tell the complete truth in relation to his name - in cipher code - would lead to his capture. I invite Zodiac to send The American Cryptogram Association a cipher code - however complicated - which will truly and honestly include his name".

'A Few Words on Secret Writing' stated "This challenge has elicited but a single response, which is embraced in the following letter. The only quarrel we have with the epistle, is that its writer has declined giving us his name in full. We beg that he will take an early opportunity of doing this, and thus relieve us of the chance of that suspicion which was attached to the cryptography of the weekly journal above-mentioned–the suspicion of inditing ciphers to ourselves. The postmark of the letter is Stonington, Conn". ​link. 
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PictureClick image for link
If the Zodiac Killer was basing the 13 Symbol cipher on the Dr. Marsh article and secret writing of Edgar Allan Poe, why did he wait approximately six months to mail it to the San Francisco Chronicle? It may not have been the six month anniversary that was important to him, but the only date mentioned in the Edgar Allan Poe literature, A Few Words on Secret Writing. That date was April 21st. 

Had the Zodiac Killer deliberately waited six months to ensure his 13 Symbol cipher letter would be postmarked April 21st, or be published on April 21st, which unfortunately for him never materialized? He was slightly early on the mailing, resulting in the postmark of April 20th, and the San Francisco Chronicle published his cipher in the April 22nd edition, effectively thwarting any intentions to recreate the Connecticut letter. However, the possibility remains, that the Zodiac Killer could have used one of the cipher techniques employed or suggested by Edgar Allan Poe in A Few Words on Secret Writing.
​
"It is not to be supposed that Cryptography, as a serious thing, as the means of imparting important information, has gone out of use at the present day. It is still commonly practised in diplomacy; and there are individuals, even now, holding office in the eye of various foreign governments, whose real business is that of deciphering. We have already said that a peculiar mental action is called into play in the solution of cryptographical problems, at least in those of the higher order. Good cryptographists are rare indeed; and thus their services, although seldom required, are necessarily well requited. An instance of the modern employment cipher is mentioned in a work lately published by Messieurs Lea & Blanchard, of this city–“Sketches of Conspicuous Living Characters of France.” In a notice of Berryer, it is said that a letter being addressed by the Duchess de Berri to the legitimists of Paris, to inform them of her arrival, it was accompanied by a long note in cipher, the key of which she had forgotten to give. “The penetrating mind of Berrver,” says the biographer, “soon discovered it. It was this phrase substituted for the twenty-four letters of the alphabet–Le,gouvernement provisoire". 'A Few Words on Secret Writing' by Edgar Allan Poe.

Nobody
11/11/2018 04:16:10 pm

I am going to begin by shooting myself in the foot. :-)

One of the best "solutions" I have seen for the My Name Is cipher is "Edward Edwards". It fits perfectly as an anagram. Correct number of letters, correct weighting of characters as a homophonic. However I have always had problems with the notion that Ed Edwards could have been the Zodiac. Some things fit with him, others do not.

The idea that the Zodiac may have employed foreign languages cannot of course be ruled out. If, for example, he was born in the USA but had parents from a foreign country, he could have used a language that he was familiar with. Considering the large number of people from foreign backgrounds in California at the time, the list of possible languages could be very long. Many people, myself included, have long considered him to be an Anglophile, but there could be another explanation for his very "English" use of language. If the Zodiac was relatively new to the English language, or it was his second language, it could be that he was using a more extreme form of English because he had been taught to speak and write in perfect English. It is not unusual for people of foreign backgrounds to enunciate and write in a more "traditional" way, because that tends to be the way English is taught. Granted the Zodiac does use a few American colloquialisms from time to time, but perhaps these are words he has picked up during his time in America. So this is why we get this very extreme form of English mixed with colloquialisms.

A major sticking point with me is the strange accent that Bryan Hartnell heard in the voice of his attacker. The fact that he has never been able to elaborate on this accent suggests it may not have been one of the stock standard American accents. It may have sounded completely foreign to his ears.

Nobody
11/11/2018 04:27:40 pm

I forgot to mention that Bryan did elaborate on the accent. He commented on the unique way that Zodiac spoke.

“He had a very Precise Cadence to His Voice, not an accent but just seemed very slow and measured, you know He said ‘All I want is your Money” and had this very distinct sound about it that I told the police back then that if I ever hear that voice again I’d be able to recognise it. I haven’t heard it again yet but it did have a very unique sound.“

To enunciate things in a slow and measured way "All... I... want... is... your... Money."

This is very much the way a person would speak if English was not their first language.

Shawn
11/12/2018 09:05:01 am

"I haven’t heard it again yet but it did have a very unique sound.“

The Vallejo police Dispatcher claim that Gyke voice was the Zodiac in the 2009 "San Francisco Slaughter" doc on the History Channel.

Michael Mageau and Bryan Hartnell....who heard the Zodiac's voice in person have yet to claim Gyke's voice was Zodiac.

Weird.

Shawn
11/12/2018 08:53:10 am

"Dr. Marsh and the detectives would have considered it highly unlikely for the Zodiac Killer to respond by giving us his name"

I think Zodiac gave his name. BUT not on a silver platter.

Nobody
11/12/2018 03:13:22 pm

Clearly a chronic case of "I like Gyke!" It is a syndrome known to mainly infest those from a certain forum. :-))

What the hell was Gyke doing at Lake Berryessa? Did a radian tell him to go there at a specific time and dress up like a quasi-KKK clown? Considering Gyke's well-established political persuasion, somehow I doubt it.

Perhaps things only look to be on a silver platter in hindsight, not to those who were trying to figure things out way back then?

Bryan Hartnell has yet to respond to anything. Basically he does not. A lack of response does not mean it has to be Gyke because a Dispatcher - hearing a voice OVER A PHONE LINE - thought it sounded similar.

Nobody
11/12/2018 03:52:04 pm

When it comes to Blaine and Gyke, I always seek factual solace in the words of wisdom of the great Zodiac "realist" Michael Butterfield. As Mike points out many times, the evidence just is not there and the foundation of the Gyke story is totally lacking in credibility. The hilarious thing is that Blaine ended up becoming a subject of investigation as a potential suspect himself, for about 5 minutes, before the FBI saw him for what he was and politely showed him the door. I am convinced that Tarantino could make a very funny movie based on this weird "comedy of errors". It is like a story from Ripley's Believe It or Not! The thing I find really peculiar is that a lot of people do believe it and the name Gyke keeps popping up as a serious Zodiac suspect.

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/Blaine%20Blaine%20aka%20Goldcatcher.htm

http://www.zodiackillerfacts.com/Richard%20Gaikowski%20and%20Blaine%20Blaine%20-%20The%20Rest%20of%20the%20Story.htm

Shawn
11/12/2018 06:22:49 pm

In the below 2007 doc "Hunting the Zodiac" SF Cold Case detectives describe Blaine as a pain in the butt and the Cold Case Det. shows some of Blaine's deciphering he sent in to prove Gyke was zodiac.
Police nicknamed him Purple Blaine. (he dyed his hair purple)

Starting at 9:55 in below video (part about blaine and police)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvnOGTJ54uM

Nobody
11/13/2018 04:45:19 am

HAHAHA! Thanks Shawn, you made my day. I almost fell of my chair laughing.

And now it seems (from another topic) I must venture down a similar rabbit hole to examine the merits of numerology by candle light. I fail to see how seemingly random numbers can add up, be multiplied together, and be subtracted in order to magically produce the killer's identity? The odd thing is what happens to the numbers that do not tally in any way with the preconceived numerology agenda? My guess is those ones are simply discarded for being irrelevant. The mind truly boggles, but it takes all kinds to make a world, as they say. 192 + 148 = 340, someone was born on 14/8 so that means the killer's zodiac sign is Leo etc etc. And if you count the number of stairs leading up to the Lincoln Memorial ad multiply them by the number of people the Zodiac killed divided by the number of shots fired from the grassy knoll you get "X" and X factored in to 408 equals the address of the Zodiac in 1969 etc. etc.

We can only laugh and move on...

Drew
11/14/2018 02:04:18 pm

This is a great piece of research and a well founded theory Richard. I don't really have anything to add, but I'd like to just paraphrase a summary of the evidence for my own understanding.

With the August 4 note Zodiac showed a willingness to respond to challenges printed in the newspaper. Marsh had commented on the sophistication of z408 and therefore he could be considered more likely to receive a response from Zodiac than most. We assume that z340 was composed within two weeks to (in some manner) meet the challenge Marsh posed to encipher his name. In the challenge Marsh cited Poe, a brilliant author who had mastered the art of creepy terror and who had also offered a great deal of thoughts on sly cipher creation - an author we can all assume Zodiac would have admired. The letter including z13 opens with a tease about solving 340 and meeting the Marsh challenge and was the first letter he had sent the Chronicle in six months since z340, arguably on the very anniversary of the Poe 'Secret Writing' publication wherein Poe formed the idea to split the alphabet to design a code structure. Supporting the Poe reference theory, somewhat independent of the numerology theory, is that z13 has the correct number of characters to form a half alphabet and it is even bookended by A and M. Within A and M in the middle of z13 we can imagine A) evocative gibberish B) an encoded name, albeit one which likely ignores structural rules that would allow indisputable decryption C) a gematria scheme cleverly linking Zodiac to Christ the Redeemer that corresponds with the dubious 'near zodiac' on the last line of z340 D) something serving as a key to the 340 in ways I honestly can't comprehend.

Very interesting stuff! As far as well contextualized speculation about the form and intention of z13 goes this Poe+Gematria theory has an excellent foundation which is perfectly in keeping with Zodiac's witchy yet playful rhetoric as well as his likely motivation to reveal nothing useful to investigators. Unless Zodiac's real name turns out to be Abe Solomon Eam, this is as good an explanation as I have heard offered.

Richard
11/14/2018 02:43:42 pm

Thanks Drew, much appreciated. I know gematria can rub people up the wrong way, but I am trying to confine it to the ciphers. As you already know, I used the split alphabet to create a code key that produced 444 in cipher 3 and 4. This seemed to tally with the 888 also. It is well known that 888 represents jesus, but also 444 in English gematria, so it seemed rather unusual that Edgar Allan Poe also placed in this calculator created 666.
http://landmarkbiblebaptist.net/666-888.html
If cipher 3 was designed with Poe in mind based on the 'A Few Words on Secret Writing', then we had 444, 666 and 888, all rolled into one cipher. Edgar Allan Poe is also 13 letters, but as yet cannot create anything meaningful.
There are some other strange connections, likely coincidental, but the last communication before cipher 3 was to Melvin Belli. He resided at 1228 Montgomery St. He represented Jose Sarria with the struggles of the gay community. Sarria performed at the Black Cat Bar at 710 Montgomery St, San Francisco. Odd therefore that after the Belli letter could have been followed by a cipher based on Edgar Allan Poe (although not proven) that Edgar Allan Poe wrote a short story called The Black Cat. I am not claiming this has anything to do with cipher 3, but simply how patterns can be found.
If cipher 3 was created on something Poe related, then I can't help thinking the cipher is unconventional, because it was designed symmetrically, but also created symmetry using the alphabet alongside it. Couple this with the numbers generated, it's either very fortunate and nothing more than happenstance, or there is something I am missing. It may be a case of pattern seeking as David Oranchak states, but there seems to be a lot of it. If you find anything else Drew please let me know.

Drew
11/14/2018 02:50:59 pm

I will continue to look at z13 if only to marvel at what a dastardly creation it is! I think the symmetry has got to be the key to the technique and the mystery. I am not put off by the numerology stuff but it gives me chills believing Zodiac was cognitively capable of it.

Drew
11/14/2018 02:43:55 pm

There is kind of an interesting thread on morph's site tracking the use of the word 'Phantom' in late 1960s personal ads printed in the Daily Nexus, which I believe is or was a Santa Barbara student paper. I became interested recently in looking into the June 1963 Santa Barbara Domingo and Edwards murder when Tom Voigt answered a question of mine about his own certainty that (based presumably on publicly unreleased info he couldn't discuss) he was "100%" on a Zodiac connection. Richard has convinced me that it was a two-person job and five and half years is an awfully long time before Lake Herman Road, but there definitely is important unreleased info on that double murder and the known similarities between it and the Lake Berryessa stabbings have never seemed like enough on their own to warrant the comparison to Zodiac in my opinion. At any rate this thread about weird personal ads covers strange offerings post 1965 but still gives a glimpse into youth culture in that area. You have to log in to see the clippings.
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=4100&sid=0940a3e0cc940d5c8032dfcb6118cd72

Richard
11/14/2018 03:23:43 pm

It's a good find by Cragle, but the hard part is linking it to Zodiac, which inevitably 50 years on is almost an impossible task. The Domingos/Edwards crime I have never really considered as Zodiac. As you stated Drew, I believe more than one person was involved because of the effort required to relocate both bodies up a difficult terrain, and unless Zodiac had a partner, then I doubt his involvement. The evidence seems to suggest the killers were likely already at the location when the couple arrived, possibly in the shack. Zodiac never attempted to drag his victims from the location they were killed, and I highly doubt Zodiac carried the ammunition boxes to the scene. Attempting to set fire to the shack after positioning the bodies there, appears an attempt to destroy evidence. For me, the killers were already in situ when they arrived.

Drew
11/14/2018 03:39:01 pm

Those are all great points and I agree fully. I know that there was a scraggly fellow that they looked at who was said to reside in that shack but they decided to let him go. I don't remember how it came up in a conversation about Tom not being able to discuss Zodiac leaving items at the Lake Berryessa and San Francisco crime scenes (not in public knowledge) but I was hoping to engage Tom in this kind of discussion about multiple perpetrators in Santa Barbara and was rather surprised to hear that he had 100% confidence in a Zodiac explanation. He remains reserved about discussing it though and he basically just left me hanging. He posted grisly morgue shots of the bodies soon after hoping to get someone who knows something to come forward. Hard to imagine that happening though.

Drew
11/14/2018 03:56:57 pm

One thought I'd like to add about the preposed Domingo and Edwards narrative though is that whether or not the killers were attempting to destroy evidence (without the faintest idea of how body burning fires work) they must have had a nearby getaway car. If they had a car and were already there wouldn't their presence likely be detected before the couple settled on the spot? If they did have a car, what the heck were they doing out there? Perhaps it was Zodiac like in that the killers trolled the area by car before finding their targets. However the attack started it seems that it ended after a physical altercation. When asked about comparing the .22 casings to Lake Herman Road and testing possible DNA extraction from Linda's clawed fingernails JB Averitt said he couldn't discuss either point, but that comparison tests to the Zodiac evidence were almost surely done.

Nobody
11/14/2018 02:45:24 pm

I remember reading somewhere that the ciphers were written on extremely light paper that was virtually "see through". Perhaps the Zodiac used this paper so he could put lines underneath to keep straight or he traced some symbols, but another explanation is the cipher requires some kind of overlay in order to superimpose two lots of symbols. The 340 cipher as it appears may not be complete. It may rely on another sheet to go over this one to reveal the correct set of symbols, perhaps even a readable text?

Just a random thought.

Drew
11/14/2018 03:05:50 pm

Could be Nobody. The overlay idea seems a bit too complicated to me, but it is possible, especially if he had studio resources of some kind. He almost certainly used an alignment method. It is hard to judge the paper thickness but in this video Tom and an investigator examine the backside of the 408. It doesn't appear that the ink bled through except for a spot where they believe Zodiac used a second pen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWro0lJD6hE

Richard
11/14/2018 03:09:03 pm

Everything is still up for grabs on this 'Nobody'.Nothing is certain. I know Randall has done extensive work on such matters, and although I have never bought into the overlay ideas, nothing would surprise me anymore. There are so many competing ideas, it's a matter of which you buy the most. What I do know, is we have 18 unsolved symbols at the foot of the first cipher, a 340 cipher that curiously starts with HER, the last three letters of CIPHER, so couldn't help thinking cipher 1 may have really ended with CIP, using a different deciphering technique, thereby linking cipher 1 and 2, much in the same way as I claim cipher 2 and 3 link together. We therefore get a running connection through three ciphers. Cipher 4 is completely independent based on a bomb location. I know not everybody buys into my analysis of the ciphers, and I would never expect everyone to either. These cipher 'solutions' or ideas are hard to prove, and everybody has to go their own way.

Nobody
11/14/2018 09:41:30 pm

I find this case SO disillusioning. The volume of what we do not know far outweighs what we are currently able to access. I would actually not be surprised if 20 years from now LE pulls a rabbit out of the hat. "Oh looky here, we just found a long lost Zodiac cipher in the back of the archives that we can only now release to the public. We considered the information it might contain could be too sensitive in 1969, so we never released it."

As you suggest Richard, without a key from the man himself, none of us can ever hope to arrive at a solution that will satisfy the cryptography people. If I were to go to the trouble and create overlays to change the shape of the symbols and eventually arrived at a coherent and readable decryption, guess what the experts would say? "It looks like you are simply making up characters to fit your solution" and "Your substitutions look forced". They would then label the person a potential hoaxer.

I am absolutely convinced that if it had been in this day and age that Donald Harden solved the 340, he would have had to explain himself every step of the way. When we consider that he really had no work sheets at all, just some scribbled substitution tables to provide as evidence, I wonder if this would be acceptable today? The first thing people would have asked is "How could you have possibly known where the transcription errors were to be placed?" "How did you come up with that character for that symbol?" For some unknown reason people just accepted him at his word. He claimed to the press that he learnt cryptography while at university - an hilarious claim to make because that university could never be considered a leading teaching facility for codes and ciphers, by any stretch of the imagination.

A lot about this case stinks of discarded tuna fish.

Nobody
11/14/2018 09:43:13 pm

Oops, 408 I meant to say.

Tom1
11/15/2018 07:36:29 am

I am far from an expert on this cipher business, but Randall"s analysis makes sense to me because traditional means have not lead to any solutions. An overlay may be required to reveal the operative symbols. A key would also be needed to decode them. The result would be a word puzzle requiring a solution. Does that makes sense? I have been in contact with Randal occasionally to let him know that I appreciate his efforts. I first found his site from my hospital bed one year ago last night.

Nobody
11/15/2018 01:21:05 pm

Yes, that makes perfect sense Tom. It could be a word puzzle of some kind, but that idea also lends itself well to the alternative scenario, that it is just a bunch of hocus pocus: a "stir fry" of words relating to the case that appear on the surface to mean something but which are ultimately meaningless and random.

It seems to me the Zodiac achieved his initial aim of coming forward with the solution, then he was content to keep people guessing for as long as takes on the second one. If he is still alive, he would no doubt be very pleased with himself that people are still falling for his trap after so many decades.

Tom1
11/14/2018 06:06:26 pm

So here is my story. One year ago tonight I was in the hospital recovering from hip replacement surgery. The History Channel tv show made it's debut that night on television and I watched it from my hospital room. It rekindled memories of living in the Bay Area during the Zodiac's reign of terror, and of a possible encounter with Mr Z. at Chrystal Springs Golf Course. One evening in 1970 my girlfriend and I were on our way home from watching a movie in SanFrancisco and stopped at Chrystal Springs golf course. We were approached there by an individual who introduced himself as a security guard for the area. We left the parking lot without any further incident. I would remember this incident from time to time through the years. The TV show prompted me to google up The Zodiac and Chrystal Springs and guess what. An article on Randall Clemons' website popped up. From that point on and continuing today I have been reading about the case everyday. Just by coincidence I see that Randall is mentioned in a comment above. Interesting. I actually met Toschi and Armstrong and worked shortly with Mr X's private pilot. Just random occurrences during that period of my life in California, but interesting non the less. I spend a good bit of time on this site and am learning all I can about the case.

Rubislaw 32 link
11/14/2018 06:42:51 pm

Hey Tom1,this sounds fascinating.

Have you posted,as ''Hoganpc'' ?

If so,you owe us some great anecdotes,at Ricardo's site.

Tom1
11/15/2018 07:18:39 am

Yes, Rubislaw. That is my user name on another site that I don't frequent much any longer. I am not sure which one it is, but probably the first one that I joined. I spend all my time on this one now.

Judith
11/14/2018 07:00:45 pm

Hi Tom1 can you describe the man that approached you and your girlfriend at the golf course?

Tom1
11/15/2018 07:29:58 am

No, but I sure wish that I could. Back in those days a lot of upscale neighborhoods used the services of private patrol companies. Chrystal Springs was such a community then. It was not unusual in those days for unsavory characters to pose as security guards, or police in order to gain access or to gain the confidence of their victims. The movie that we attended that night was Patton, and I have tried without avail to research which theater in SF was showing it then. I have a hunch we were followed from there. You had mentioned Paradise in a previous post, and I asked you If Peter had any contact with the E Clampus Vitus Chapter there. Just by coincidence the sister of the girl that I was with that night lives there now.

Tom1
11/15/2018 07:46:37 am

One more thought on this Zodiac puzzle. The marshy area east of Lake Herman was a popular waterfowl hunting sight then. The Suisun . Marsh was the location of several upscale hunting clubs. Lake Herman road was one route in to that area from the direction of Vallejo. I have often thought that there are several hints that Mr Z. was an avid hunter/outdoorsman and may have frequented that area as a result. I know for certain that there were several very well to do citizens of Nor Cal that were members of those hunting enterprises in those years.

Tom1/aka hoganpc
11/15/2018 11:33:41 am

I have no idea what triggered the sarcastic comments by Rubislaw in his post above. I will not delve into conspiracy theories or sensationalism. I will also not personally attack another member of this or any other sight. I lived in the Bay Area from 1959 until 1993. As a result of that I have accrued considerable local knowledge and experiences as have millions of others. Some of which I relate from time to time on this sight. I also do not participate in childish bickering back and forth with others and also make a small monthly monetary contribution to this sight to help keep it operation. Have a nice day everybody.

Richard
11/15/2018 02:23:58 pm

Thanks Tom. All comments are under moderation now.

Richard
11/15/2018 03:06:37 pm

In fact they are going for good. Thanks for your support Tom, I do appreciate it a lot.

Judith
11/19/2018 05:32:56 pm

Hi Tom1 I have no knowledge of Peter belonging to such a chapter up in Paradise. I only know that he knew people who lived in Paradise, like a friend named Moe Crank, and would go there frequently prior to our marriage. Peter had a whole life before we were married as he was nearly 30 and I was only 19. With regards to the marshlands off of Lake Herman Road I have often wondered and visualized Peter hunting that night as he often did, and he just was sort of going over the line and shooting two kids sitting in a car. That would explain the lack of anyone seeing the killer or his vehicle within those very tight time frames of eyewitnesses coming and going that evening. He may have shot them and then laid low and watched all the comings and goings. Just a thought.

Chad William Burke
7/5/2020 07:51:51 am

My name is -----

AEN⊕♉K♉M♉λNAM
OXK⊕ACATAMDOT

TO DM AT ACA ⊕ K.X.O.

MANKE λ♉⊕
TODCX. MA⊕
"Math"

Chad William Burke
7/18/2020 07:10:00 pm

Split alphabet cipher / 2 keys - one greek one latin - null character for zero

My name is ----

AEN⊕♉K♉M♉λNAM
DEDIKARAA⠀DEK

DEDIKA R.A.A.⠀DEK
I dedicate R.A.A. Ten - 0

AENKM ⊕♉♉♉λ
DEDAA IKRA
0⠀
Dedicate - Arki backwards
From Greek island
Blank = zero


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    The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians & # inches along the radians. The code solution identified was Estimate: Four Radians and Five Inches To read more, click the image.
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