ZODIAC CIPHERS
Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
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BLACK MALE ADULT [PART TWO]

1/5/2018

 
We will take another look at the claim that both Armond Pelissetti and Donald Fouke received an initial radio broadcast of a negro male adult suspect, and question whether in fact this ever took place. There is a distinct possibility this was a later addition, boldly underlined in the November 12th 1969 Donald Fouke memorandum, to explain away why Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms supposedly bypassed a viable suspect walking along Jackson Street only three minutes after a reported assault and robbery on a taxicab driver. Later determined to be a murder, this 'oversight' had to be addressed. It is clear that this sighting was known within the police department, alluded to by Armond Pelissetti in the 2007 Zodiac documentary, when he stated "I spoke to Officer Fouke later that evening and I was unaware he'd stopped anybody, black, white or any other color, however, in subsequent conversations with him, he told me that he did stop somebody".

This visual of a potential suspect by two officers along Jackson Street was never reported in any newspapers up to November 9th 1969, so for the Zodiac Killer to be aware of these police officers in a patrol car near the intersection of Jackson and Maple, belatedly corroborated three days later in the Donald Fouke interdepartmental memorandum, confirmed the Zodiac claim of the 'meeting' on Jackson Street. This would prove unequivocally the letter writer had first hand information not known to the general public - and bearing in mind the Paul Stine blooded shirt piece, would place the Zodiac Killer in the location he claimed. If Donald Fouke stopped the suspect, then he stopped the Zodiac. The time Zodiac left the taxicab, and the time Donald Fouke received the first radio broadcast at Washington and Presidio Avenue, match up perfectly for a collision course near the intersection of Jackson and Maple.
PictureClick to enlarge
We have heard plenty from two police dispatchers over the years, namely Dave Slaight and Nancy Slover, who both took calls from Zodiac, yet the police dispatcher who received the call from the three teenagers at Presidio Heights we have a noticeable silence in any documented material. The same can be said of the three teenagers. Therefore the widely reported notion of the radio dispatcher either receiving or hearing incorrect information, and incorrectly informing responding officers of a negro male adult suspect has gone widely unchallenged. The idea of a black male adult supposedly involved in the taxicab 'assault and robbery' could certainly be used as a reasonable excuse for bypassing a white man walking on Jackson Street only minutes after the attack. But there is every reason to believe this 'mistake' never happened.

The description given by the three teenagers was "A white male, 25-30 years old, 5'8" to 5'9", stocky build, reddish-brown hair worn in a crew cut, heavy rimmed glasses and dark clothing". Are we to believe the description given to the police dispatcher was heavily redacted to "be on the lookout for a black male adult," when passed to responding officers, with no accompanying detail. The idea of a negro male adult in 1969 with a crew-cut and reddish-brown hair should have at least raised a question to its validity with both dispatcher and officers alike. Unless the dispatcher decided to ignore the full description and pass on the bare minimum.

Donald Fouke described his approach to the intersection of Jackson and Maple in the 2007 Zodiac documentary "I would like to say the Zodiac made eye contact with us, but I can't picture it. I remember seeing his eyes, but I couldn't tell you what color they were, it was dark enough that his eyes were concealed, but you could sort of say he looked down, perhaps this lumbering gait, stumbling along, like a semi-limp may have come up in my mind, because he was putting his head down when he spotted the police car". This was only three minutes after a perceived assault and robbery on a taxicab driver - so one would assume an officer spotting a man so soon after the attack, walking with a limp or lumbering gait, and avoiding eye contact by putting his head down, was certainly suspicion enough for a stop. If for nothing else, but to question the white male on whether he had spotted a black man in the area. Just simply bypassing him doesn't make sense, especially when you consider Donald Fouke described the white male in alarming detail, such as tan engineering boots, low-cut shoes, a jacket with elasticated waist and cuffs, pleated trousers and graying hair at the rear. All of which would have been unnecessary details to focus upon as you approached from say 50 feet away - because the man was white and therefore presumably not the suspect.

The fact that Donald Fouke claimed in a 1989 documentary, that he got a second radio broadcast approaching Arguello Boulevard, goes a long way to proving he stopped the Zodiac Killer. He stated "We proceeded on Jackson Street towards Arguello continuing our search, as we arrived at Arguello Street the description of the suspect was changed to a white male adult, believing this suspect was possibly the one involved in the shooting we entered the Presidio of San Francisco and conducted a search on West Pacific Avenue, the opposite side of the wall and the last direction we observed the suspect going, we did not find the suspect". Why would he be heading away from the taxicab crime scene, when he should have been heading towards it. The answer is self explanatory - the Zodiac Killer directed him there after they stopped him. This proves Armond Pelissetti correct, when he claimed that Donald Fouke admitted to him, that he had indeed stopped the white male adult. This was backed up by Zodiac in the November 9th 1969 'Bus Bomb' letter.              

PictureClick to enlarge
"2 cops pulled a goof abot 3 min after I left the cab. I was walking down the hill to the park when this cop car pulled up + one of them called me over + asked if I saw anyone acting suspicious or strange in the last 5 to 10 min + I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber + went around the corner as I directed them + I disappeared into the park a block + a half away never to be seen again".

When Donald Fouke stopped the white male subject, his next logical question would have been "have you seen a black male adult in the area". But the Zodiac Killer in his communication makes no mention of this fact. 

Many observers have noted how the Zodiac Killer liked to taunt the police, as he did numerous times in the November 9th 1969 correspondence. Had he been stopped by Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms on Jackson Street, and asked if he had seen a black male in the area, this certainly would have been of great amusement to Zodiac, realizing the police were searching for a suspect with the wrong ethnicity or color, and without doubt would have been capitalized upon in his forthcoming correspondence - yet he mentions nothing. Only referring to the instruction as "I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber". The fact he doesn't mention this "booboo," is a strong indication that the police were not looking for a black male​ at any point in the night's proceedings, particularly one with a reddish-brown crewcut. 

In the 2007 documentary Donald Fouke stated "The initial radio description of the suspect was that of a black male, 5'10" or something like that. Seeing that it was a white male in an affluent neighborhood walking along the street, we didn't think it was the suspect".  Not withstanding the racial overtones in this statement - apparently the white male was evading eye contact, stumbling along, supposedly turning into a residence (omitted, and contradictory to the memorandum), as well as matching every indicator in the initial radio description of the suspect apart from color, yet the police car simply rolled on past, not even asking the man if he had seen anybody in the area. This is very difficult to believe. 

BLACK MALE ADULT [PART ONE]

Drew
1/5/2018 08:28:38 am

Well done Richard! This is the most persuasive argument I have read to prove that the dispatch was bogus. I've felt this way about it for quite a while but I've never articulated all the reasons so concisely. This really puts the issue to bed for me, but of course I would be very interested to hear a rebuttal if anyone has one.

Richard
1/5/2018 11:51:22 am

I may be reading too much into it, but I certainly find the NMA very questionable, as does Alex Lewis (Welsh Chappie), who first alerted my interest in this topic. I am sure not everyone will agree mind.

Drew
1/5/2018 01:23:08 pm

Fouke simply doesn't go down Arguello if he isn't directed. It is still crazy to me that with two officers in the car they did not manage to hold the helpful citizen, suspect or not. Even though they did not know it was murder at that point, they still knew it was a violent offender right?

Richard
1/5/2018 02:32:13 pm

It is my belief Donald Fouke did stop Zodiac, but Zodiac effectively bluffed them by stating he saw a man waving a gun down the street, and the cops peeled rubber. When Zodiac mentions that he saw somebody waving a gun, the two officers probably thought the priority was to safeguard the public and sped off up towards Arguello. Donald Fouke then gets the second radio broadcast likely informing him the taxicab driver is dead and the suspect is armed. Failing to find the suspect up by Arguello Boulevard, they possibly considered they had been duped and swung round into West Pacific Avenue, because this was a likely escape route, and as Fouke stated in the 2007 documentary, it has dense foliage- but they failed to find Zodiac.

Drew
1/5/2018 02:57:19 pm

I'm sure you're right about the logic, but they still should have had passenger Zelms jump out and secure the witness. I suppose they would not have expected the witness to leave without making his statement.

Lemonboy
1/5/2018 11:14:54 am

Great article Richard now that I think about it you are right zodiac would not have hesitated to taunt police for looking for a black male so I’m leaning towards them not looking for a BMA..which leads to the question why didn’t they stop him that night? On another note Richard have you looked into the similarities between zodiac and the New Orleans axeman? I know a lot of people have compared zodiac to the Texarkana moonlight murderer I think this is another case zodiac might’ve been inspired from. Just a thought....

Richard
1/5/2018 11:48:03 am

I haven't looked into the Axeman of New Orleans, but I certainly will now and get back to you Lemonboy. I'll have a look tomoz. Cheers.

Richard
1/6/2018 02:12:48 am

Very interesting case Lemonboy, particularly the tone of the letter and ridiculing of police. The Zodiac certainly read much material that predated him, so it's certainly a possibility. He likely drew inspiration from many sources, as he did with The Lipstick Killer in the Melvin Belli letter and possibly Jack the Ripper in two debated letters containing 'yours truly' in the same position from the margin as the 1888 killer. I shall post the Axeman letter below for reference.

Hell, March 13, 1919

Esteemed Mortal of New Orleans:

They have never caught me and they never will. They have never seen me, for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your earth. I am not a human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell. I am what you Orleanians and your foolish police call the Axeman.

When I see fit, I shall come and claim other victims. I alone know whom they shall be. I shall leave no clue except my bloody axe, besmeared with blood and brains of he whom I have sent below to keep me company.

If you wish you may tell the police to be careful not to rile me. Of course, I am a reasonable spirit. I take no offense at the way they have conducted their investigations in the past. In fact, they have been so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but His Satanic Majesty, Francis Josef, etc. But tell them to beware. Let them not try to discover what I am, for it were better that they were never born than to incur the wrath of the Axeman. I don't think there is any need of such a warning, for I feel sure the police will always dodge me, as they have in the past. They are wise and know how to keep away from all harm.

Undoubtedly, you Orleanians think of me as a most horrible murderer, which I am, but I could be much worse if I wanted to. If I wished, I could pay a visit to your city every night. At will I could slay thousands of your best citizens (and the worst), for I am in close relationship with the Angel of Death.

Now, to be exact, at 12:15 (earthly time) on next Tuesday night, I am going to pass over New Orleans. In my infinite mercy, I am going to make a little proposition to you people. Here it is:

I am very fond of jazz music, and I swear by all the devils in the nether regions that every person shall be spared in whose home a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going, well, then, so much the better for you people. One thing is certain and that is that some of your people who do not jazz it out on that specific Tuesday night (if there be any) will get the axe.

Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native Tartarus, and it is about time I leave your earthly home, I will cease my discourse. Hoping that thou wilt publish this, that it may go well with thee, I have been, am and will be the worst spirit that ever existed either in fact or realm of fancy.
--The Axeman

Lemonboy
1/6/2018 07:58:54 am

Thanks for taking the time to read the letter Richard I thought there were so many similarities in the letters glad to see you found it an interesting read.

Tahoe27
1/6/2018 12:10:18 am

I was recently talking along these lines as well. I don't think Zodiac was bs'ing when it came to SF.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/the-jackson-street-encounter-t570-s440.html

Richard
1/6/2018 01:13:31 am

Yes I agree, apart from the Bus Bomb letter introduction, to me the rest of the letter is corroborated by the facts. The 'meeting' at Jackson/Maple occurred as Zodiac claimed (I have not one shred of doubt they stopped the killer). The Zodiac's claim of entering the park one and a half blocks later is backed up by the October 12th newspaper article in which eyewitnesses saw a man running into Julius Khan playground. The description of this individual matches both the 3 teenagers and Donald Fouke, particularly the description of Fouke in terms of age. Toschi and investigators assembled the dogs by Julius Khan playground, corroborating this was the likely point of entry. The dogs were also assembled at Arguello Boulevard and a dragnet was performed effectively from west to east. Zodiac referred to this, stating two groups were 10 mins apart (walking time). The dogs never came within two blocks of him, told you he had moved eastwards 2 blocks from Julius Khan playground. He couldn't move west- this wasn't an option. His description of 150 feet and motorcycles travelling from south to north west told you exactly where he was- just by Presidio Boulevard. This road travels south to northwest. This all negates the premise he had a vehicle parked by Jackson or West Pacific Avenue, otherwise why would he bypass his vehicle and enter the park. There is nothing in my opinion, in this communication, that indicates Zodiac is lying. The sheer emphasis and detail he gave in terms of time and distance is simply a response to Chief of Inspectors Martin Lee, who incorrectly asserted Zodiac never entered the park. In the same way as Zodiac responded to Vallejo cop Jack Stiltz, when he provided more information in the Debut letter. The Zodiac certainly didn't appreciate being misrepresented. I believe much of what Zodiac stated. Even the bomb threats were only designed to create fear and apprehension. They were construed as lies, but there was likely little intention in the first place, just the fear of the threat. It is not difficult to believe the police used the black male as damage limitation in 1969. We see what happens today, even with body cameras. The blatant fabrication of events, even when documented on video. I don't believe Donald Fouke is a bad cop, he just towed the blue line and to me anyway, it has backfired heavily when you watch the innumerable contradictions in the 2007 documentary, exacerbated by the late addition of the 3712 Jackson Street story.

Tahoe27
1/6/2018 02:31:09 pm

I think the mentioning of school kids was in response to the first article in the paper where it mentioned "youngsters" saw him.

Rubislaw 32 link
1/6/2018 03:37:37 am

Thanks to you and Lemonboy,Richard,for the ''Axeman'' letter.It makes for a fascinating read,with respect to possible influences,on Zodiac.

It certainly appears that Zodiac's general reading,included those serial killers,with a predilection for writing.

I agree that Donald Fouke was not a bad cop.In interviews.he comes over as a bit ''teary eyed''.It's almost as if he realises the enormity of what he failed to do.

Yes,he missed out on being a hero......''tough t*tti*s'' [?].

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 09:47:26 am

This theory is one that I put forward a while back now.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 09:50:44 am

I was going to post why I disbelieve the BMA claim but, instead, can you just link the original article here Rich as I am using a mobile device not desktop.

Richard
1/6/2018 10:02:02 am

I gave you a mention above Alex (second comment), but I have now inserted a link back to the original article. I could never forget you Welsh. http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/black-male-adult

Drew
1/6/2018 10:10:38 am

Hi Richard and Alex, if Fouke and Pelissetti have been maintaining the bogus dispatch story because they were instructed to do so why do you think they have done as much press as they have? Would they have needed permission from their superiors to speak in front of cameras in the late 80s? Why would they not have their stories straight by 2007?

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 10:29:57 am

In my opinion Drew, it was the higher ups at SFPD that told Don not to mention publicly that a WMA had been seen and spoken with. It didn't go unnoticed by Zodiac, either. He wrote to Paul 'Averly' and disclosed what the Dpt would not and it wasn't by accident that he wrote in the letter that "Must print this part in paper." He demanded this as he knew they were covering it up.

The response by SFPD was through force rather than their own choice, and in doing so admitted this claim by Z was correct in part (that he was observed by police) but not that he and they communicated. The SFPD then probably knew a reason for non stopping and questioning the guy would be needed and that's when they came up with the perfect and only explanation they could and that was the suspect, they were led to believe, was not white as the guy they passed (Zodiac) was.

So in short Drew, there is no way, in my opinion, this is anything other than Dpt. instigated cover up to spare their blushes. Don as a mere patrol cop would not be at liberty to simply decide he won't tell the truth about this, or to leave this or that out of his police reports. That's just My personal opinion

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 10:57:49 am

If this individual exists and is so incompetent he or she hears black as white then broadcasts it, then ok that's fine... Tell us the name of this person who took the call.

The SFPD said when i contacted the Dpt that it is not policy to give out the personal information or details of their employees. I had asked for the name of the person who took the report by Rebecca Robbins on the night itself and gave them the date and rough time tex the call came in to them. I pointed out that Vallejo PD and Napa Sheriffs Office could have refused to give Nancy Slover and Dave Slaight's name as the people who took the blue rock and Berryessa calls but, I added, they wouldn't need to affirm or refute anything about any doubt of their exchanges with a caller because they were both named in immediate post crime reports, unlike the Dpts.

They have not responded and it's been a while now, approx. 36 Months lol. They won't tell us who took that call from Rebecca that night because, in my opinion, they know very well that person is not going to afford that yes, he or she is abaurdly incompetent and misheard and then broadcast incorrect suspect description. They know that, in all probability, the person who took the call will be asked about giving that N.A. incorrectly and will tell the truth in responding with "Yeah. . . That never happened, I gave the description as I had received it as A White Male Suspect."

Drew
1/6/2018 11:00:04 am

I believe this theory as well Alex, but it is still a mystery to me that Don and Armond spoke on camera at all. Why were they ever permitted to go on television? It's not like SFPD was open about their investigation. If they went on tv without permission they still must have felt strapped to the bogus story, even in 2007. It would seem less odd to me if it seemed as though they had rehearsed a compromised version. Armond says Don said he stopped someone, Don insists he didn't. It is strange to me they weren't at least on the same page on that issue. Thanks for your thoughts.

Richard
1/6/2018 11:34:21 am

Even Pelissetti compromised to a certain extent, saying later in the documentary that he didn't believe Fouke had stopped Zodiac and that "it would be a point of conjecture at this point." The issue isn't necessarily whether they stopped the Zodiac and let him on his way, or simply drove past him. Either way they didn't secure him, so the end result was the same. However, the issue is the reasoning behind continuing their search thereafter. The NMA description is good reason either way.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 11:56:32 am

As for Armond, what He said happened in public ib his own version of events.... He is worse than Don for not being honest and truthful because what He states in piblic, and what He said occurred in private conversation with Mike Butterfield, is about as different and far apart from the othrer as Night is from Day. He is lying and he is, as far as i believe anyway, questioning Don and his honesty in hopes of avoiding anyone focusing on him with awrkward questions.

Questions, Mr Pelissetti, like just who was that Man "walking his dog" that you encounteted at Jackson and Maple intersection? Was there ever a dog with this man, Mr Pelissetti? Did you find this gentleman standing at a street intersection as you say publicy or, Mr Pelissetti, did you encounter him "Standing on a residential driveway. He was not doing anything at all, just standing there. I called Him over to me and i kt this man around with me before going back to the scene..."

Do you think Armond would admit this second version happened according to his own words over a phone conversation? Not a chance, lets keep pointing the finger at Fouke smaller lie to avoid light being shed on my huge bigger one....

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 12:53:32 pm

Drew the Dpt. have no need to concern itself as to whether they will allow Don and Armond to give interviews, the SFPD have likely either told them, or it simply assumed, they will stick to the given story and toe the line. They have, remember, police pensions to consider.

And worse case scenario, if a claim or anything aignificant is alleged by someome and the department is asked to confirm or deny ir knew or to answer anything at all about a Zodiac related question. . .

"The Dpt cannot comment on open and/or ongoing and unsolved investigations."

Drew
1/6/2018 01:11:09 pm

Whatever did transpire, I believe Fouke was tortured by the whole thing. It sounds like Zelms was as well. Fouke may have been trying to clear his name to some extent, even if his comments only served to dig a deeper hole. Armond however didn't seem nervous about it, in my opinion. He seemed like a guy who enjoyed the attention.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 02:13:45 pm

Zelms lived for another three months and was killed, three months in which He is said to have never gone anywhere without a copy of the Richmond St.Zodiac sketch and Don Fouke, well post Oct. 11, 69 was arrested twice.

The first sign things were not ok for Officer Fouke was after he was stopped by his fellow law enforcers and arrested for DUI. Second and post the DUI came another arrest, this time for public intoxication in which a shouting profanity instead Fouke was recognized by one of the two patrolman who were dispatched to deal with the call and tried asking Don to allow them to take him hone as they did not want to arrest a fellow cop but Fouke allegedly told them where to shove it and the two cops now with a second units arrival moved in to arrest Fouke for public intox, an arrest Fouke resisted and was charged with having done so and had to be physically restrained. The scary part is that the initial call said, and cops found ad such when arriving at scene, a drunk WMA, shouting using profanity and showing his packing a pistol to fearful passers by.

This has always appeared to me to be the actions of a man at point of losing it and can't take what he knows but cannot say or acknowledge publicly. Fouke was called in to hos superiors office who said He understood and sympathized with Foukes position (What he meant by that is unknown, the report of it did not elaborate) and offered not to fire him nor even report his conduct officially on his record in the dpt if fouke agreed to and completed an alcoholics addiction programme, which Don agreed to do and did complete and stayed sober thereafter.

Drew
1/6/2018 02:41:14 pm

Alex, that is really interesting and sad to hear about Fouke's arrests. Thanks for sharing.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 03:17:41 pm

Drew, it is I agree and, your more than welcome.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 11:16:13 am

The Don Fouke Memo to Toschi and Armstrong of at the Dpt. Homicide Detail is dated as to when it was written and sent....

'11/12/69' or, for us in Uk... November 12th, 1969.

When did Zodiac's 'outing' their little secret encounter?

This is the Zodiac Disclosing. . .

11/09/69

Enough said about whether Fouke and the agency had an attack of conscience or was brought about by some other outside influence, one called Zodiac.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 12:03:06 pm

Thats meant to say the date of Zs letter sening the big reveal is November the 9th, and Fouke's memo admitted his spotting a WMA is dated the 12th of that same month, November. The Dpt. and Fouke responding to the string pulling Zodiac.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 11:41:13 am

Donald can admit to falsifying police reports and admit itnon camera as he did in 2007 admitting he saw suspect, in reality and unlike what he claimed in his report, turning into an entrance of a house and bot, as his memo states, going North on Maple. He even admitted that:
"I never wrote that in my report, and i have never told anyone..."

Yet, despite this admitting his criminal misconduct on camera , he faces no questioning by the Dpt. as to this criminal misconduct admission and i contend that the reason he doesnt have to and knows he sont have to is because the dpt. Cant demand he answer why he lied in his memo and Don reply "Cause you told me thats what i was to do..."

Richard
1/6/2018 11:46:16 am

You know something isn't right Drew, when you read the last line of the memorandum "My partner that night was officer E Zelms. I do not know if he observed the subject that night." Eric Zelms was the passenger closest to the sidewalk. Donald Fouke gave much detail on the suspect while driving, but apparently he doesn't know if Eric saw anything. That is quite absurd. He was the rookie and likely had to play ball. Apparently his wife Diane told later, that Eric admitted they had stopped somebody that night.

Drew
1/6/2018 12:07:21 pm

How likely do you think it is that SFPD has undisclosed reports of what actually occurred that night?

Rubislaw 32 link
1/6/2018 12:23:28 pm

Yes,Drew...I believe the likelihood,is somewhere in the region of 100%.

A number of ''mentioned in dispatches'' reports have filtered out,through journals and books,over the years.Including Toschi letting slip of a ''suspect'' known only as ''Robert'',whom Toschi ''felt sorry for'',during an interview,which he later ''recanted''.

No doubt a few police pensions are on the line,if anyone spills some beans [?].

Richard
1/6/2018 12:31:25 pm

Absolutely certain there is. At Zodiackiller.com the LHR report is 60 pages, the BRS report is 75 pages, the LB report is 35 pages, the PH report is 2 pages. That seems a little underwhelming.

Drew
1/6/2018 12:51:26 pm

"LHR report is 60 pages, the BRS report is 75 pages, the LB report is 35 pages, the PH report is 2 pages"

That does seem like a bit of a suspicious discrepancy now that you mention it! In the maze of information in this case I had forgotten that disproportionateness completely. At any rate, I'm sure the History Channel will obtain full access and get to the bottom of it next year.

Tahoe27
1/6/2018 02:08:59 pm

We have just not be privy to those reports. Sure would be nice to see them one day.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 12:29:16 pm

Yeah but Rich that comment by Fouke i think speaks to his positivity in that while he is willing to speak and invite scrutiny of the events, and because he is aware that they are not telling the truth as per the orders that came down, He does not want The inexperienced rookie cop of 21 years old to have to face the questions.

Them again Rich, this 'Eric was, quite literally, looking the other way' at the time the WMA was spotted could just as easily be one that the dpt. decided for fear the younger, more inexperienced officer Zelms is much more likely to crack under media questions and cameras than Patrol Officer, later promoted up ranks to Sgt., Don Fouke would be.

Armond Pelissetti was also repremanded by the SFPD by being transfeted to the much saught after and prestigious division of Homicide, where Armond was 'Demoted' from Patrolman down to Rank of Inspector....Hmmmmm!

"OBJECTION! It may just be myself, your honor, but i recognize that smell Sir, it's of the highest and pure load of absolute bull shit!"

Richard
1/6/2018 12:36:46 pm

The Presidio Heights episode is the biggest stinkbomb of them all. The 2007 documentary continued the charade.

Tahoe27
1/6/2018 02:07:51 pm

IF Fouke and Zelms actually didn't stop anyone, and they just drove past the guy, there might not have been conversation about him. They only worked together that one night. I have ALWAYS wondered how Fouke got that much detail from a guy they zipped right by.

Alex Lewis
1/11/2018 03:06:33 pm

Hey Tahoe, been a while since we last spoke and i hope all is well.

About your valid point regarding the 'conspiracy to cover up WMA Sighting' and your several very valid points you made as to why it seems unlikely the brass at SFPD knew of, lrt alone were behind, the BMA claim. I have to agree and reconsider that it was more likely the decision of Fouke and possibly Several other patrolmen rather than any rank, especially rank from homicide detail.

I have myself noted several times that it appears chief of the inspectors Martin Lee certainly knew nothing of Fouke spotting and probable stopping of, a WMA. Here's why...

Lee went to Paul 'Averly' and his purpose was a simple one, to ask Paul to put in print the info he was about to give, info designed with a deliberate attempt to belittle, annoy and all out crush the Zodiacs taunts.

Lee claimed Z was, quote 'a clumsy criminal' stating he is not half the criminal genius hr himself seems to believe and stated why ending by questioning the Zodiacs sexuality stating the dpt. believed him to be "a possible latent homosexual" end quote.

Now if Lee knew of the WMA stop on Jax st, and that the agency was keeping it it quiet, there's no way that Lee would publicly goad Z like that surely. He would have to at least expect a come back along the lines of what Z did respond with stating 'ps, 2 cops pulled a goof...'

Alex Lewis
1/11/2018 03:15:22 pm

And Tahoe27, more importantly and most obviously, I have to ask (given that there are no 'Armed and dangerous Mods in groups called death squads' that will respond here with red light & siren and draw their virtual sidearms...

Are you and I getting married because I proposed back in 1848 (OK, exaggerated yes but feels this long) and still, still I sit here in Wales, waiting and lonely in hopes I get that longed for email message from T27: "I do"

Richard
1/6/2018 12:49:45 pm

Also Drew, The time of the attack in the police report is given at 9.55 pm. This is presumably when the 3 teenagers first noticed the 'attack'. Zodiac left the crime scene at 9.56 pm. He arrived at Jackson/Maple at 9.59 pm. The kid was on the phone to police while Zodiac was still in the taxicab, because the other two kids were downstairs. So the dispatcher was talking to Rebecca from at least 9.56 pm. She would undoubtedly have still been on the phone at 9.59 pm, when Donald Fouke approached Zodiac at Jackson and Maple. So are we to believe that for a full three minutes the dispatcher still hadn't grasped that it was a WMA, and informed Donald Fouke before he encountered the killer.

Drew
1/6/2018 01:02:13 pm

"She [Rebecca and the Dispatcher] would undoubtedly have still been on the phone at 9.59 pm, when Donald Fouke approached Zodiac at Jackson and Maple."
Sorry to press, but how can we be sure that was a 3 minute exchange? Wouldn't that mean that imply that the first dispatch went out while they were still on the phone? Maybe that is normal. I agree that it seems like an impossible mistake for Rebecca or the dispatcher to make, but Fouke and Zelms must have heard the first dispatch before the jackson/maple encounter.

Richard
1/6/2018 01:48:04 pm

I am presuming she was kept on the phone for a reasonable time while events were still unfolding. Of course I don't know for sure, but if the dispatcher relayed the initial radio message to Donald Fouke at 9.58 pm, as stated in the police report, the dispatcher would have had two minutes from the phone call at 9.56 pm. That is 2 minutes to get the correct description from Rebecca before radioing Fouke/police. Then Fouke sets off from Presidio Avenue/Washington Street and still has 1 minute to reach Jackson and Maple. Fouke was apparently still under the impression it was a NMA three minutes after Rebecca called in. He claimed the 2nd updated broadcast came while he was approaching Arguello Boulevard. That would be upwards of 3:30 mins, before he claims he was updated to a WMA. I would assume they can still keep Rebecca on the phone, while informing the officers. It just seems a long time to be in conversation with Rebecca on the phone and not get the facts straight. Dispatchers often ask the callers to take a deep breath and relay the information clearly, and generally keep them on the phone to glean as much information as possible.

Drew
1/6/2018 02:05:26 pm

Thanks for clarifying this Richard, much appreciated!

Alex Lewis
1/11/2018 03:49:00 pm

In my experience, albeit very limited, when dispatchers are taking details of emergencies and\or especially crimes that are unfolding as witness is on the line is that a dispatcher will routinely ask several times in most circumstances for details of the incident, where it is at and if criminal in nature, who is hurt, who is responsible and where that responsible is, was last seen and heading NSE or W and on foot, wheels etc etc. I cant say or speak for American cops but British cops, or the dispatchers who give them jobs to respond to, ask for as much detailed info as is possible and ask the caller to reaffirm and give confirmation of suspect, weapon, description of suspect because they as dispatchers will be sending officers into the given situation and one wrong piece of info given to first responders can be the difference between them driving straight into their own serious injuries or worse, their own demise.

The cops act on info given, that's all they can do. As such, relaying crimes in progress to patrol officers is, as far as details are concerned, absolutely crucially important because if I dispatch you to situ citing "All units please respond to a fight on such an such Avenue, involves several White males, caller estimates at least 8 Males are assaulting two others with oe being on ground kicked repeatedly. . . Caller states no weapons involved, over..."

If the first cop car to respond is met by a Black Male three streets away who is seemingly walking away and uninvolved in the incident and cops stop to ask has he seen any white guys, several in a group, running in the area...? and the dispatcher got the race and 'no weapons' part completely inaccurate. . . He/She is jeopardising these cops safety & very lives.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 01:09:51 pm

Thats why the law itself has Law Maxims, one of which it declares that. . .

"In ambiguous things, what is absurd and contrary to reason, is to be ignored."

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 03:01:13 pm

And as Zodiac walks off turning off Washington and onto Cherry, He is now obscured from Lindsey Robbins view by the home on the corner of Cherry and Washington and so Lindsey, being 16 and feeling invincible and mistakenly believing that the offender was armed only with a knife after seeing what he thought wad the a flash or glint of the cab overhead light reflected in something metal He assumed was a blade, ran outside his house and stood in middle of intersection of Washington and Cherry in order to watch and see where suspect wad going. As Lindsey is standing in middle of road at Intersection Armond arrives on scene and as he said in the 07 Documentary, parked hid car in the middle of the intersection facing the cab on Washington and parking ot dropping his patrol car mud intersect is clearly consistent with Him being forced to stop there as Lindsey was standing where He said he was, middle of intersection.

The overall point being, Armond is on scene just as Zodiac is turning onto Jackson off of Cherry, and if he responded to the radio and wad close by to given location then the caller almost certainly is still on the line or its within the 30 seconds, minute tops, of Rebecca giving the info to police. A

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 03:12:46 pm

I do apologize for the stupid amount of typos, but as said, I am using onscreen keyboard (a small one) with mismatched fat fingers! That, coupled with my outright refusal to read over what I typed before posting should tell you why the typos are!

You have till next publishing to find more and then give up

Yours Truly, The Fred Phantom (Fred with Rage!!!)

Richard
1/6/2018 03:15:37 pm

While I believe the teenagers saw Zodiac open the driver side of the taxicab and attempt to haul Stine upright- because of the bloody fingerprint on the dividing panel, there is something not ringing true with Lindsay spotting Zodiac at the Jackson/Cherry intersection while in the presence of Pelissetti. Because it would have taken Zodiac 2 minutes to reach near the intersection of Jackson and Maple to be met by Fouke, and Fouke didn't require 2 minutes from Presidio Ave/Washington to reach the intersection of Jackson and Maple. Not withstanding the time (30s to 1 min) from the initial radio broadcast it took Pelissetti to reach the crime scene. This means Fouke would had to have taken 2:30-3:00 minutes to reach Jackson and Maple to cross paths with Zodiac. This is not possible. Either Fouke drove at 5 mph or the claim of Lindsay is incorrect.

Alex Lewis
1/6/2018 03:54:47 pm

I think it not only rings true that Zodiac was just turning off Cherry as Armond arrives but I have a feeling it is also the true reason that Armond dashed back to his patrol car radio to yes, let everyone else know, but no, not to update an error in description.

The first thing any cop will likely do in encountering a witness who is excitedly yelling him the person who is responsible for that crime is literally just around the corner and pointing to the area he has just gone out of sight at, is dash to his radio (in 69, cops did not have a personal radio on each individual cop as they do today) and broadcast the info.

In one sense Pelissetti is being honest and the truth and if he'd changed the bit bout being told it was a white male to being told whetr the suspect was and that he has literally just seconds ago turned right and onto Jackson then His saying "And that when I was told where then suspect was. I couldn't get to the radio fast enough to let everybody (Responding to the area) know.

I did suggest before that the very reason Don and Eric are coming up that way staying on Jackson st. all the way to Cherry is directly because of the Armond update broadcast of where the suspect is as per the info given by the on scene witness, Lindsey. No way of knowing or being able to prove this obviously but even if you accept and believe the claimed incorrect suspect description, and believe this really was the reason A.P dashed to broadcast that critical update then wouldn't or shouldn't we also expect, given He also knows the fact the guy had just gone down Cherry and seconds ago turned right and onto Jackson Street heading in the direction of Maple that A.P wouldn't also broadcast this even more crucial piece of information to, ad He said, "Let everybody else know"?

Rubislaw 32 link
1/6/2018 12:54:01 pm

Agreed Richard....in fact all policemen interviewed,regarding that night,and,to an extent,all major crimes,associated with Zodiac....tended to look like a motley crew of elderly men,feeling sorry for themselves.

A ''Last of the Summer Wine'' version of ''Abject Failure'' [?].

Tahoe27
1/6/2018 02:22:17 pm

The thing is though, from what I read, nothing about this mistake of a black man was ever published. Why have this MAJOR conspiracy by LE--one which all involved would have to cover up, pretty much until their deaths. Fouke's statement was in an inter-office memo--not meant for the press. And he signed it. It was to Toschi and Armstrong. What would be the point if not for the media?

Drew
1/6/2018 02:54:29 pm

That is a really good question Tahoe. I have always assumed that Fouke was instructed to write the memo to answer the question raised so publicly by the Zodiac. Do you know how and when the Fouke memo got to the media? Considering how everything about the Paul Stine murder has presumably been kept from the public it would seem to me that the police wanted the explanation for how the Zodiac got away out there.

Tahoe27
1/7/2018 12:23:38 pm

Hi Drew--

I don't know when the memo became public. I know Tom Voigt posted it years and years ago. I'd have to ask him how/when he got it. It just seems as if Fouke read the paper and thought...maybe I should let the detectives know, but then why not tell them about the guy walking up to a house on Jackson? I truly question that last part even happening! Like I mentioned, there was no talk of Fouke's explanation in the newspapers, and I don't think it was in any old news video footage. So if it wasn't used in that sense, I tend to think it was a real/truthful memo from Fouke. Although, maybe he wrinkled it up and threw it in the trash and didn't intend to give it to anyone...looks like it's in bad shape. :)

Drew
1/7/2018 02:53:18 pm

Thanks Tahoe, that documentary Crime of the Century from the late 80s or early 90s featured Fouke telling a version of the story, but it may have been yellow book that first presented the contents of the memo. Whether it was discovered in the 80s or 90s is still a much different scenario than what I have always assumed - that they leaked the memo in 1969. If it wasn't information SFPD wanted out there to save face then that certainly complicates this conspiracy narrative. Interesting thoughts, thanks for your time!

Richard
1/6/2018 03:35:54 pm

I'll give this question to Tahoe. Is it normal for a taxicab driver to pull up askew and away from the kerb as shown in the photographs. This coupled with the evident lack of gunshot heard and the autopsy report indicating Stine received intraparenchymal haemorrhaging to the lungs, often received by impact injuries to the chest, could strongly indicate the murder occurred elsewhere. These injuries are possible after sudden braking and impact to the chest by the steering wheel, that may indicate Zodiac may have pointed the gun to Stine's head somewhere during the journey. Stine slams on his breaks to propel Zodiac forward in an attempt to disable him. Zodiac's legs strike the back of the seats causing injury to his legs, causing the lumbering limp observed by Fouke. This tactic ultimately failed and Zodiac shot Stine. He then drove the vehicle away from the area he fired the gun and parked up askew to the kerb. Hence no gunshot at Washington and Cherry, and no skid marks on the tarmac. These intraparenchymal injuries have yet to be fully explained.

Tahoe27
1/7/2018 12:36:52 pm

I'd say pulling up like that is possible (of course), while certainly not the norm. Could have been Zodiac said at the last second "STOP HERE"...so Paul just sort of turned in that way. There isn't a report of a gun shot anywhere else in the area either. In the memo, he didn't mention any limp--it was more of a way of walking. Lots of this stuff comes later...much later.

I cannot speak for the hemorrhage of the lungs, you'd have to look into the causes, but I would image trauma elsewhere might produce such a thing. Here is some interesting info: https://patient.info/doctor/gunshot-injuries .

Surely they could be other scenarios--not a bad thing to consider...

Greg
1/7/2018 12:50:54 am

Just to offer another point of view on this, if you enter 'police dispatch errors' into Google and run a search, there are plenty of articles showing that mistakes in these crucial instances are far from uncommon. I went back and watched the Presidio segment of the 2007 documentary. I'm doubtful that those ex-cops would use the opportunity to get up in front of a camera and lie, even if that lie was instituionalized. I understand the rationale behind why BMA might appear bogus as Rich very well articulates in the article, bolstered by the comments that follow. But I think what may be happening is what can result when there is a truth vacuum. We weren't there, we don't know what happened, yet we notice inconsistencies in the testimony of those who were, and as such we assume they must be hiding the truth. I think the question of whether Fouke stopped Zodiac is valid, even though Fouke says emphatically they did not in the 2007 docu. Fouke may have revised his memory of what happened over the 38 years after the encounter, eventually coming to the belief they only drove past him. Even if that's not exactly what took place, if Fouke embraces this as the truth in his heart and mind, then he's not really lying, is he? And I don't believe he sat in that chair as an old man and lied about anything. I remember writing an article about this phenomenon on Facebook a year ago. Zodiac researchers have a knack for wanting to disbelieve so many people associated first hand to the case. Whether it's Fouke, or Mageau, or Don Cheney and all the Allen informants, doubt seems to be the rule. Skepticism is healthy, of course, but it becomes a type of dangerous suscipion and corrosive cynicism when carried to extremes, wherein nothing and nobody can ever be trusted.

Richard
1/7/2018 01:32:40 am

I agree with this analysis Greg, it is often easier to be cynical and search for discrepancy where none exists. The problem with the Presidio Heights affair, unlike the other three crimes is the lack of a cohesive story from documentary to documentary, along with written statements. We can attribute much to memory, but constant embellishment in the case of Don Cheney and in small part the 3712 Jackson Street addition by Fouke in the 2007 documentary does not allay the suspicions, but feeds it. It's a very fine line between constructive scepticism and conspiracy, which is where researchers like Thomas Horan sit. I cannot say, and never would, that I am 100% certain of the NMA 'invention', but I would say it's a question worth asking. There is pause for thought however, in peddling this as fact. Without full disclosure and a comprehensive police report, suspicions will continue. I have seen thousands of police documentaries and news articles on police shootings in America, particularly the latest taunting and execution of the man crawling in the hotel hallway, which quite frankly was one of the most disgusting executions I have ever seen from 'law enforcement', We both know how, even with video evidence, how these events are rewritten by police in the most blatant falsehoods and 99.9% of the time the 'judicial system' performs biased justice. It is therefore no great leap of faith to believe this happened in 1969, where no such video material is available. However, I do take your point, that sometimes it's easier to fill the vacuum with suspicions and hot air, rather than facts that are simply lost in time.

Richard
1/7/2018 01:50:25 am

I am in no way comparing this the Presidio Heights, of course, but this police officer should be locked in a cage for life. The fact he faces no consequences for his actions by the police department or biased judiciary, and inexplicably 12 of the most idiotic jurors (who were either instructed or bribed to reach this decision) unfortunately reflects badly on society, and unfortunately for the good police out there, endangers their lives also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTdJYZMKeQs

Tahoe27
1/7/2018 12:47:19 pm

I too see your point, Greg, but as Richard mentions, these officers have brought this on themselves, with quite distinguished inconsistencies. As you say, it doesn't mean they "lied" in the typical sense, but when their own statements clearly contradict each other, it is normal for us to question it.

Alex Lewis
1/11/2018 04:07:38 pm

What it did do without question, is allow Zodiac to respond with direction that 'Must print this part in paper' and with a metaphoric clearing of his throat began the. 'ps, 2 cops pulled a goof....' statement which made the San Fran Cops look like bumbling idiots and worse, incompetent cops who are clearly trying to cover up the facts. Zodiac had the Ace up his sleeve, the ko punch, the rabbit pulled from hat as he did for one reason.... The cops handed it to him.

He quite obviously is in a position to know of the incident on Jackson street and after almost Four weeks pass Z will have noticed that their little late night chit chat is highly conspicuous by its own absence from any public papers, tv news report, and any other media reports of that nights events.

This is why I am sure Chief Lee knew nothing of the WMA stop on Jackson that night because if he did and knows Z hold info that if choosing to disclose make he and his colleagues at SFPD look like incompetence personified with a cover up.... He'd never have said what he did of Z

Rubislaw 32 link
1/7/2018 01:46:58 am

These are pertinent,and indeed well thought out comments,Greg.

I should just like to add that....there is often a big difference between prevarication and ''economy of the truth'' [?].

In addition,and for the police,in particular.....a certain ''allegiance'' to the ''badge'' [?].

Currently,I myself am ''locking horns'' with the cops over ''inconsistencies'' emerging,over a long period of time.It is,at the very least,a ''trying''time,and one is forever wondering,in which direction one go,in order to seek ''allies''.

Prevarication and procrastination becomes part of law enforcement's culture.They can appear to think little about it,and whom it affects.

And,they resist even more so,when the ''discomfort'' of having to wear a shoe,on the wrong foot,becomes apparent.

They are so used to doing the questioning,it becomes a disagreeable lesson in humility,when they find themselves,being questioned.

The fact that they are ''Public Servants'' supposed to be serving the best interests of the public,is lost on them,as soon as they are ''into their stride''.

Greg H.
1/7/2018 05:38:43 pm

Points well taken everyone. You have to wonder about the human memory when we consider events that happened, in this case, 38 years ago. I'm 39 years old myself and when I look back on things from even 20 years ago it's easy to realize there is a lot of blurriness and gaps. And even in what we think we remember well from so long ago, there is inevitably bound to be a generous amount of embellishment that the rememberer can't help but add to the memory. I don't know the precise age of Fouke and Pellisetti, but I assume they're probably around 70 during the 2007 interview. I don't think it's surprising when two 70 year olds get together and reflect on a night that happened to them 38 years earlier, when they were 32 years old, that inconsistencies and differing accounts of events will emerge.

As far as Fouke leaving out the information about the suspect entering 3712, in the interview he says he thought he'd included it all these years. That could very well be true. We are people with a keen interest in the Zodiac case, but for many of the officials who were involved directly they were just doing their job. Maybe it was a job they didn't particularly like and did the bare minimum of work in order to collect a paycheck. Fouke may have filled out his report or memo and not given it much thought again, he went to work the next day and had new cases and situations which commanded his attention.

If the BMA notion was a deliberate lie to control fallout and make the cops look a little less incompetent for letting the killer go, why even bother admitting there was any sort of encounter at all? That is plausible deniability. Fouke and Zelms drove to the scene and saw no one on the sidewalks. End of story. But by coming forward and disclosing this sighting / meeting, whatever it was, they're opening themselves to nearly as much scorn as if the dispatch were completely accurate. BMA does little to help their cause, that's why I don't believe it's a lie. If you want to save face or uphold reputation, you reveal no vulnerabilities. They've done opposite. They've come across as human, riddled by their mistakes, foibles and inconsistencies. It's less a well-orchestrated cover-up than, well, as I stated earlier, the natural outcome of two 70 year old men struggling to recall a single night from 38 years earlier.

Greg H.
1/7/2018 06:05:54 pm

I watched that video you linked Richard. Very disturbing. I'm tempted to say the reasons these events are in the news is because they are the stark exception to the norm. That 99.9% of the cops out there are doing commendable work and we have a few outliers who ruin the reputation of the profession and, through dissemination on YouTube, give the world the impresssion the U.S. police is unilaterally a Gestapo-like collection of thugs. But then you see there is a healthy volume of these videos detailing police abuse and brutality. You wonder if the problem is far more vast and systemic than we'd like to think.
I watched that video a few times. It's obvious that cop had no business being in uniform and did nothing to de-escalate the situation. I'm wagering to guess though, that he was acquitted because before shooting the kid reached for his waist-band, which can be seen if viewed closely. I guess they thought these people were armed, as apparently they'd been pointing pellet guns out windows, and were also heavily intoxicated. Wish the kid would've just kept his hands visible the entire time. But the officer conducted himself like a lunatic and there's no excuse for that. Sad sitiuation all around.

Rubislaw 32 link
1/8/2018 07:40:56 am

Yes Greg,on a ''very general'' viewpoint,those of us in Western Europe,that look across ''the pond'',see the U.S.,as a nation with the biggest aircraft carriers and baddest nuclear arsenal....and yet,still insist on clinging on to a ''frontier spirit'',with regard to handguns.

The single main reason for this,I would venture,is because they don't trust their policing and law enforcement,enough [?].

What a modern and civilised society wants most,is confidence that it will be protected from ''criminality'',in various forms.

We have to trust the police....and I agree,that in the main,they are honest,and hardworking people....and even passionately so,in some cases.

But they are nevertheless an ''army'',with a hierarchical structure,''on our doorstep''.So,it will probably always seem like a ''them and us'' situation,with even the ''good cops'' having to obey,sometimes ''dubious'' instructions,from superiors above.

''Accountability'' for some of their actions,is often the real problem.They never seem to learn and ''evolve'' accordingly [?].

Hence,my accusation that prevarication and procrastination appears ''embedded'' in ''their'' culture.

As a soon to be retired detective,once said,in ruefully reflecting on his working life :

''Hell - we even lie to the fish in the sea.''.

Tahoe27
1/8/2018 11:45:46 am

Wow, did this thread turn...

Alex Lewis
1/11/2018 05:10:47 pm

It has turned, and turned into a platform whereby RubisLaw has taken the liberty, quite literally, away from the population of Europe by installing His or Herself as spokesperson for not just a people, but entire Continent.

"Those of us in Western Europe who look across the pond, see the United States as this an that"

May I ask has Europe elected yourself as The person who can & does speak for them?

"What a modern & Civil Society wants...."

Once again which Society, modern and Civilised, are you speaking of and for.

...Order, all rise! Now, what we in a civilized society of the modern day want is to be relieved of the burden of having our own opinions and stating them. What we in this modery society of civilized people need is someone to speak for us, to form opinion on behalf thereof and, most importantly, tip the hat to Mr or Madam Speaker seen in the most fabulous and bombastic... Speaker of the House of Parliament.

The Speaker in the House of Peasants, sorry, Commons is decision maker of who gets to speak & when by announcing them by name if they behave and first raise their hand in the air.

...".The Rt. Hon. RubisLaw MP P hD, MBE and Oh dear me...,

Speaker for a Continent...

Rubislaw 32 link
1/12/2018 06:04:48 pm

Thanks for your kind words,Alex.

What we all really want to know is,if the Hearst Corporation have offered you an advance on another series of ''The Hunt for the Zodiac Killer'' [?].

If not,I have heard that a porn company are willing to pay good wages,for consultation on a proposed new project,with working title :

''This is the Zodiac spanking.''.

Could be worth looking into [?].

Perverted Blood Lust Crime Victim Junkie
1/8/2018 11:50:13 am

Thanks, Richard! Could you perchance increase the zoom any more on Paul Stine's lifeless, contorted, bloody, body? I believe we are so close to solving the case!

WelshChappieChops...
1/12/2018 01:15:28 am

Well Perverted Victim with Lust for Junkies & their Crimes. . .

That, I assume, is your given name & not an online pseudonym so, Welcome to the chat & I am sorry your parents did not like you very much.

Also Sir, if I may pull you away from your perverted lusting after victim blood of Junkies Victim to ask you... Do you know of something that is referred to as IP Address Mr perverted Junkie Victim of Blood lust?

Tell you wa, don't waste time answering that.

Rubislaw 32 link
1/12/2018 05:25:18 pm

Hi Perverted Blood Lust Crime Victim Junkie .

Thanks for the observant,ironic and hilarious comment !

Some people with limited horizons,as well as limited humour,just wouldn't understand [?].

Richard needs more contributions,such as yours,to lighten up the proceedings.

All power to your fascination !

Ray Jenkins
1/8/2018 12:35:19 pm

Hey I know, maybe it was the evil genius Ross Sullivan bumbling along in the dark and wearing shoe polish as a clever disguise? Considering he still appears to be Favored Pet Suspect for many, this remote possibility obviously cannot be ruled out from our modern, popularized version of the Zodiac landscape.

How that guy ever walked all the way down to that lake on a hot day and back again seems to be lost on a lot of people. It would have taken him like 3 hours to walk down the hill and by that time he would have been so hot and bothered and scratched and sweating profusely and dehydrated and delirious he would have staggered straight past Bryan and Cecelia and fell in the water to cool off. lol!

Sorry, I couldn't resist chiming in with that one! :-)

Drew
1/21/2018 04:16:22 pm

I hope this isn't too long-winded - I just concocted a loose very speculative theory about how the NMA dispatch may have innocently come about. If the cab had a single interior light centred above the dashboard, rather than two lights or a double-bulbed light which would produce a wider lateral beam, I wonder if it would have backlit the killer’s face rather than illuminate it for the Robbins kid observing from across the street. Though Zodiac would have been observed as a WMA after he exited the cab the description as an in-progress commentary likely focused on the activities inside the cab and this cabin light would be the only light source. Perhaps the dispatcher misinterpreted an unclear description that the culprit's face was dark (because his head was blocking the light) as an identification of a negro suspect. I don’t think the kid intended to suggest that the suspect was a NMA but if the kid didn’t initially specify then the dispatcher would have asked and ultimately must have gotten the idea from something that was said during this exchange. Alright, I just had to get that out of my brain.


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    The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians & # inches along the radians. The code solution identified was Estimate: Four Radians and Five Inches To read more, click the image.
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    The Zodiac Atlas: The Zodiac Killer Enigma by Randall Scott Clemons. Click image for details.
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    The Zodiac Killer Map: Part of the Zodiac Killer Enigma by Randall Scott Clemons. Click image for color version
    For black and white issue..
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Photos used under Creative Commons from Marcin Wichary, zAppledot, vyusseem, Alex Barth, Alan Cleaver, jocelynsart, Richard Perry, taberandrew, eschipul, MrJamesAckerley