A DATE WITH DEATH

4/20/2019

Some of the questioned Zodiac communications address certain individuals using the lower case format, and the March 13th 1971 'Los Angeles' letter refers to Riverside in the same fashion: "I do have to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity, but they are only finding the easy ones, there are a hell of a lot more down there". The Riverside Desktop Poem, written sometime in 1966 and believed to have been signed off with the author's initials, also featured two lower case letters. The clue to "rh" may lie in the poem itself and in the first correspondence by the Zodiac Killer on July 31st 1969 - assuming you believe a connection between Riverside and the Bay Area murders. That is because there is a real possibility the Riverside Desktop Poem was authored prior to the murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30th 1966. If you believe that Cheri Jo Bates was stalked surreptitiously in the weeks or months before her death, then the Desktop Poem is the precursor or warning, and the Confession letter is the completion of that threat.

If we look at the wording on the Riverside Desktop Poem (below) from the standpoint of somebody stalking Cheri Jo Bates, then it is perfectly conceivable that at some point in time the wannabe killer has noticed the young woman wearing a red dress and fantasized about making her pay for the "perceived brush-offs" he has endured. But what is noticeable, is that the author states "she won't die this time, someone'll find her". If the young woman was to be stabbed, why would someone necessarily find her? If his mind is seeing his fantasy in the present during school hours and in the context of a busy Riverside City College campus, then one could easily see how she could be rescued and survive. However, in the next line he is projecting his mind to the future by stating "just wait till next time". The only way "next time" could conceivably have a different outcome, is if he lures Cheri Jo Bates away from the Riverside City College campus - and this is exactly what he said he was attempting to do when he typed the November 29th 1966 Confession letter, thirty days after Cheri Jo Bates' murder. He stated "I then offered to help. She was then very willing to talk to me. I told her that my car was down the street and that I would give her a lift home".

cut.
clean.
if red /
clean.
blood spurting,
⁠dripping,
⁠spilling;
all over her new
dress.
oh well.
it was red
anyway.
life draining into an
uncertain death.
she won't
die.
this time
someone ll find her.
just wait till
next time.
rh

If the murderer of Cheri Jo Bates had made a promise to seek her out "next time" in the Riverside Desktop Poem, and had some connection to the college, or was in her near or outer circle, is it really realistic he would give his true initials at the foot of the Desktop Poem to give law enforcement a helping hand? On the other hand, if they weren't really his initials and he had just placed two random letters together, then it is a rather pointless exercise. The Zodiac Killer wrote "riverside" in the 1971 'Los Angeles' letter and "halloween"/"Halloween" in the questioned 1987 correspondence, showing yet again his ability to ignore the upper case form of these titles. It is these two words that may give us the meaning to the "rh" at the foot of the Desktop Poem. The poem indicated the necessity of the killer to separate Cheri Jo Bates from the college campus so somebody wouldn't find her in time, thereby resulting in her death. Had he achieved such an objective, then her death may very well have occurred past the midnight of October 30th, rather than around 10:30 pm when screams were heard emanating from the campus alleyway. He was ultimately thwarted by Cheri Jo Bates, who likely fought back vigorously when she was being coerced towards his vehicle. The killer ultimately boasted that this was not the case by stating "I said it was about time. She asked me 'about time for what'. I said it was about time for her to die". This was clearly a line pulled straight from his imagination, to give the impression he was in complete control throughout. Had Cheri Jo Bates not fought valiantly against her abduction, then the prophecy of "rh" would have been realized: "Just wait till next time, riverside halloween".

On July 31st 1969, the Zodiac Killer wrote "If you do not print this cipher by the afternoon of Fry.1st of Aug 69, I will go on a kill ram-Page Fry. night. I will cruse around all weekend killing lone people in the night then move on to kill again, until I end up with a dozen people over the weekend". The Bay Area murderer was always promising more bloodshed in the future - and the Riverside Desktop Poem was no different. But on that occasion he gave us the exact time and place.

art

4/20/2019 06:21:48 pm

very plausible analysis and explanation, nice job Richard!

KayElleSF

4/20/2019 08:48:05 pm

Lately, I've been revisiting the notion that Zodiac may have stalked all of the female victims prior to killing them. If you look at Linda Edwards, Cheri Jo, Betty Lou, Darlene, Cecelia and Donna Lass - they are all of a certain type...which I would describe as pixie-girls-next-door. They were each popular in their respective circles and up and coming in their young lives.

Is it possible that Zodiac may have come into contact (even if for a short time) with each of these women prior to the attacks? I know there is speculation that Darlene may have known Zodiac ahead of her death but what about Betty Lou and Cecelia? Could Z have been tailing them as well...biding his time, waiting for an opportunity to catch them alone with a male friend?

I understand there is no direct evidence that Zodiac's attacks were sexual in nature...however, if Z was infatuated with each of these women, then jealousy could have been a motive.

Of course, many young women in America had a similar look to the victims, but I cant get past how close they are in type. Just line up their photos and see for yourself.

KayElleSF

4/21/2019 04:00:48 pm

Thanks, Rubi. It's nice to have this site to bounce ideas/theories of off. Your input is especially appreciated :)

KayElleSF

4/21/2019 11:37:50 pm

Reply fail. Out of practice ;)

Rubislaw 32 link

4/21/2019 02:34:10 am

Every time you visit Richard's site,KayElleSF,you come up with a ''telling'' and sensible observation.

Yes...''diminutive and elfin-like'',was how it used to be stated [?].

May be difficult to find actul proof,until Zodiac's arrest,but I certainly agree,that he probably had a leaning,towards a particular type of woman.

Something along the lines of....making him,Zodiac feel good about himself,as a ''protector'' of ''little women'' [?].

An ''irony'' there,indeed.

Personally,I believe that Zodiac and Darlene ''had a past'',of a sort.

And,that the Zodiac did murder Joan Webster,then,and almost as shocking...hounded and teased Joan's father,George,for years afterwards.....from behind a pen,and telephone.

Tom1

4/21/2019 06:29:13 am

I have a semi educated hunch and will state it here for the first time. Our friend was a security guard working for companies that contracted for private patrols and other services. He resided in some sort of group housing or commune arrangement. This fits well with the above stated theories posted above and elsewhere.

Rubislaw 32 link

4/21/2019 08:49:18 am

I can see your point of view,Tom 1,and I would not be inclined to dispute various perceptions of the Zodiac's work description.

Though I really admit,I am ''not'' sold on the notion,of the Zodiac,being a military serviceman,at the time of his terror activities.

What I wish to stress,at this time is,that despite the Zodiac having committed the heinous act of multiple murders....he really was,first and foremost,a very active extortionist.

And,this suggests that,he was almost completely geared to investment of much time,to an assortment of activities...to the ultimate end of committing successful extortion.

Included might be physical activities,such as checking up on postal routes and mailing points,as well as ''patient'' stalking.In addition,writing letters,''merely'' to acquire note heading and official documention,for the purposes of fraudulent impersonation,in the future.And...much ''petty theft''.

So,it's possible that the Zodiac's job description,might have assisted his extortion ''hobby'',with a number of advantages to be taken,within the course,of that work.

But not guaranteed.

Tom1

4/21/2019 05:46:48 pm

While in his uniform he would have been able to observe untold numbers of potential victims without arousing suspicion. He would learn their habits while at the same time learning any number of ambush points. It was common in the Bay Area at that time for local areas to hire security patrols. If he lived in a group setting he would avoid scrutiny by immediate family. I just keep coming back to the plausibility of this scenario. In the course of patrol duties it he would be common for him to encounter young couples in search of privacy.

Rubislaw 32 link

4/22/2019 03:14:32 am

Yes...''man in uniform'' is very plausible,Tom 1,and certainly worth exploring.

''Full Military'' seems ''off'',though,since they,collectively,have always been ''big'',on accountability,of their men,at any time,and any place.

And,were known to have been very helpful to the investigating police,at the time.

tom1

4/22/2019 06:16:04 am

My above posts clearly refer to a security guard and private patrol scenario and uniform. They have no relationship to a military connection. Group living situations were also not uncommon in the Bay Area at that time.

Judith

4/21/2019 08:52:32 pm

The desktop poem is clearly a confession of a crime. Has anyone ever looked to see if there were unsolved murders during that time frame, where the girl was wearing a red dress?

Tom1

4/22/2019 06:23:30 am

Security personnel would have unfettered access to the students and also the facilities. A uniformed security guard would in most cases not alarm the persons being observed. Attempts to use the position as a means to meet co-eds, would however cause some uneasiness in students that were approached.

Rubislaw 32 link

4/22/2019 07:19:20 am

Interesting idea posed,Judith.

Examining the poem [prose],in its entirety,it does seem as if there two parts,that are plagiarized.

'' Sick of living,unwilling to die'' coming from a poem by The Earl of Clarendon,Edward Hyde.With ''Edward Hyde'' famously,in fiction,being the split personality of Dr.Jekyll.

''Just wait till next time'' coming from a line from Charles Schultz's ''Snoopy''....''Just wait till next time Red Baron''.Interestingly,this is a cartoon,on the last page of a ''Peanuts'' Christmas special cartoon book.

The Red Baron was WW1 fighter ace,Manfred von Richthofen.So,it is possible,that ''rh'' was a ''reluctant'' signature,left by ''Zodiac''....and actually completed the line,as standing for '' richt hofen''....pronouced,as if two words,anyway.

So,with the ''meat'' of the poem....we are left with two choices :

As you,Judith,suggest...is the poem representative of a confession,for a crime ?

Or,is the poem,just ''Zodiac'' fancying himeself as a poet,and showing off,albeit in a contemplative mood ?

My inclinations are,to the latter.

But,you could be right,and ''red dress'' may be a clue.

4/22/2019 10:19:31 am

Judith

Diane Louise Gerrish (19) found beaten and strangled to death in the grounds of the San Francisco Presidio by three soldiers on Monday, August 30th 1965 at 7:30 am (D/Day) ...Her face was covered with blood and her skirt had been tossed carelessly over her body.

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-murder-of-diane-gerrish

I don't know the color of Diane's skirt.
But, Jim Phillips was in the Presidio stockade in 1965.
And after Darlene was murdered - his room mate said - he said he was the Zodiac.
And the black and white picture of the mystery guy with Darlene is Jim Crabtree, eventhough he claims it is not. Why? Because a picture is worth a thousand words. And in the eyes of many - that picture is of the Zodiac - with his controlling stance and his controlling hand on his property. But, Darlene was of a type like KayElleSF posited free spirited. This seems to be unlike the times - the independent type. Which sets up as adversarial situation in the control freaks mind. I can't control them. So, I'll show them, by attacking them.

Toots

4/22/2019 08:30:58 pm

I certainly believe Z was what psychologists call an organized serial killer. They are usually highly intelligent and well organized to the point of being meticulous. Every detail of the crime is planned out well in advance, and the killer takes every precaution to make sure they leave no incriminating evidence behind.

I believe this Riverside Desktop Poem is a huge foreshadow from Z ("just wait till next time") to the Thanksgiving murder (11/28/1969) in the Penn State Univ stacks (Betsy Aardsma). Z could have easily researched that the Penn State campus hospital was called Ritenour Health (RH), and that any serious emergency would be taken there. Betsy had on a red dress.

Z liked to mention hospitals...Albany Medical Center being another instance.

As most believe, Z was what physcan organized

Rubislaw 32 link

4/24/2019 09:32:39 am

Absolutely agree,on the ''organized serial killer'' point,Toots.

As proposed,in this comments section,that the Zodiac was already a ''seasoned'' extortionist,before ''branchng out'',into murder.And,it is possible that the Zodiac's well organized mind and body,as an extortionist.....gave him an advantageous edge,when embarking on prey,of a more ''up and personal'' nature.

I have ''Albany Medical Center'',as ''Albany Vehical Centre'',incidentally....Hence ''Donnie Henley'' [..should be ''Henly''..].And,with father ''Con'',holding a franchise of '' NAPA'',which is the '' National Automotive Parts Association ''.

But..whoever's solution is the correct one....we need that ''naughty boy'' arrested [?].

The Zodiac,of course...and not to be confused,with Mr.Voigt.

Dan

4/24/2019 03:09:20 pm

ram-page...

I am convinced that Rams were on the killer's mind when he wrote this, perhaps as a reference to Aries, the sign that is commonly regarded as the "babies" and "children" of the Zodiac.

Ramona High School is also the "Home of the Rams" - the Ram being their varsity mascot. And as we know, Cheri Jo Bates was a varsity cheerleader.

Dan

4/24/2019 06:03:45 pm

Also, this same theme carries through when he writes: "SHE WENT TO THE SLAUGHTER LIKE A LAMB."

4/24/2019 07:27:15 pm

The FBI says that profiles of SK's are all over the place - there is no type - they run the gamete.

Some are smart some not - Some are crazy some not

This particular serial killer the Zodiac - if it is just one guy - he could be the pedophile type - with all his mention of kids and teens and kiddies. As serial killers - evolve. So maybe he went on to kill men as in Baker's case or maybe he just committed suicide as his last note of the suicides grave would suggest. He even could have joined the CIA like the nut Tony Poe. Whom killed thousands as leader of the Hill people. He even famously said I like killing people. And he sent a big bushel of ears to his congressman. The CIA said he went native and sent several hit men to terminate him but unlike the film made about him Apocalypse Now - They failed and he eliminated them himself.

4/25/2019 12:35:44 pm

Hearst had built a house that is long gone called the Spiral Staircase, on Old Topanga Canyon Road, Topanga, CA.
This is the place where Manson and the Process meet
http://www.mansonblog.com/2011/05/more-on-spiral-staircase.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuweR_8f1vc
Looking down from the top of the stairs I imagined is was like the Nautilus.
Another connection that Hearst had to the Occult is the Mt. Shasta House in Mcloud
The fact that Hearst was into the dark arts is well known among the Holly Woodland crowd
He clearly attempted to murder Charlie Chaplin - When he shot and killed another man by mistaken identity.

4/25/2019 01:26:38 pm

https://www.discoverlosangeles.com/things-to-do/discover-las-true-crime-locations-beyond-the-black-dahlia
Lana Turner is a link between The Mob and Lawrence Klein - since Lana dated both Johnny Stompanato and Larry.

Dan

4/25/2019 02:37:31 pm

I tend to agree with Riverside PD. The broad brush approach always misses the finer details. The murder of Cheri Jo Bates had nothing to do with the Zodiac and was most likely perpetrated by a person or persons known to her, either a friend or distant acquaintance, perhaps even someone from her own school. The last people who saw her alive are the most likely suspects IMHO, and they were seen loitering about the vicinity for a long time prior to her being attacked. A random slaying by a deranged stranger seems the least likely scenario in this case, the reason being the acute problems relating to time. There could still be a person or persons still alive today who know what really happened, but they are holding their tongues. It is also clear to me that the police have long suspected someone, but have been unable to prove it sufficiently to satisfy a court of law. There are lots of things about this case that we the public are not privy to. It is still an active case. As for Zodiac, I think in the manner of BTK and other serial killers, he was quite happy to accept responsibility for a crime he did not commit, because it made him seem more omniscient in his notoriety and this greatly bolstered his ego, plus it helped to confuse the authorities to some extent by throwing them on to a false lead.

4/25/2019 04:38:12 pm

Dan

Here are two pics of Bud Kelly; The dirty cop that lead the CJB investigation for years, and then went to prison for child molestation.
We should throw out everything he did - and start from scratch.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/retired-bates-detective-charged-with-child-molesta-t6026-s20.html

Dan

4/26/2019 03:45:57 pm

Normally I would not reply, because the answer should be obvious. The way I see it, Riverside PD could easily rule him in or out with a simple mitochondrial DNA test, if they have not already done so. If they have, this is not something that Riverside PD want us to know about at this point in time. Riverside has been steadfastly secretive with regards to its investigation. They have become even more secretive than usual in recent years. They will no longer talk to the press about the case or give out any information at all. This may tend to suggest that they are on to a new lead, however it could also mean that they are simply no longer willing to give the public any further details to speculate on. Sadly all we the public can do is speculate on whether Bud Kelly had anything to do with the murder of Cheri Jo Bates. In other words we the public can do nothing, because speculation generally always amounts to a whole lot of nothing. We can only let Riverside PD do their job and can only hope that they are doing their job. No poster on this blog or any other will be able to prove the guilt of any single suspect. The best we can do is speculate.

4/28/2019 10:21:00 am

r = 18th letter of the alphabet
h = 8th
18 + 8 = 26th letter = Z

4/28/2019 10:55:26 am

Richard

uncertain death
she won't
die
this time
Someone ll find her.
just wait till
next time.
rh

The writer's victim he is writing about here seems to have lived. she won't die this time. Someone LL finds her. CJB may have been the next time he speaks of.
His watermark is the LL
(I have to use the capitalized form of L to distinguish from i but the Zodiac was clever to sneak it in even as Vallejo on Hartnell's car and as in the word Yellow on the Cab)
A secrete additional signature - that's how you know it's authentic - the ancients would double date and double sign so did Leonardo de Vince as a way of making sure copy cats don't over ride their works. I think the Bate's murder is Zodiac.

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