The Presidio Frights

1/6/2016

This article was written by Alex Lewis (Welsh Chappie), whose own site detailing Zodiac suspect Lawrence Kane, can be found here.

In this thread I will be giving the reader a visual aid using photo's of the relevant people as to their role's and actions that Night. So, I ask the reader to join me in putting your hands together, bowing your head and "Let us Play...."

The first two responders to arrive at the Presidio, where the pictured interview took place, was veteran Fouke Off (Left) and Rookie Partner E. Zelms (Right). They had the following comments for the press:

Now before these Two Law Officers above had arrived at the Presidio, their fellow Patrol Colleague, Armond Pelissetti, was giving chase on foot after witnesses said the suspect had just gone down Cherry Street. Armond has a Alcophobia, a fear of dark Alcoves. In this photo He's just starting out on Cherry st and an Alcove can be seen in the background as Armond stops to issue an echoing bellow: "COME OUT NOW! MINE IS BIGGER THAN YOURS!"

Now shortly after passing above Alcove, He arrived Maple Intersection on Jackson and turned to the right and saw a man walking His Dog and this Gentleman was only too happy to assist:

After speaking with this Gentleman, Armond returned to the scene to greet Inspector David Toschi, who was the inspiration for Dirty Harry!!

And then after a letter arrives a few days after this incident, Zodiac tells this Agency why they too, are idiots and Incompetent. But there is one who is not going to sit back and be intimidated by This Boastful accusation thrower and Chief of Inspectors Martin Lee decides if it's a fight this man is spoiling for in the form of verbal sparring played out in the Chronicle, The Chief is going to give Him just that. Chief Lee arriving at the Chronicle front Security:

So Chief Lee gives several verbal Jab's and a Big left Hand landing on The Ego of it's target, But Zodiac ducks and weaves the best of Lee's shots and Hit's Lee with A Left Right combo and KO Uppercut and Lee walks out if the Chronicle Ring where Photographers were on hand:

PS: The Two Page upload requested:

ADDITIONAL UPDATE: (Feb 22nd)

Well, I have seen so so many 'Coincidences' over the years that things like this should come as a fairly big shock when you come across it first time but the days of 'Fell of My Chair' discoveries are long gone. Now, when I see this type of thing my immediate instinctual response is to laugh while thinking: "Yep.....Their they go, at it again!"

Pay Attn. Rich, Exam questrion based on the published page will follow

Below Rich is the SFPOA, or San Francisco Police Officer Association, archived Journal Records that are available to the Public for Public Consumption. I assure you Rich I have neither altered nor edited the page below. High Difficulty Level Exam Question, take your time....'Which Two Consecutive Years are not available on the 'Little List' below?

Richard

1/6/2016 03:31:26 am

From your tone Alex I suspect you are slightly sceptical of the Presidio Heights affair, surely not, the police always tell the truth.lol.
I actually feel as we have stated before that Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms were actually pawns of the SFPD, who undoubtedly leave been less than forthcoming, exemplified by the comprehensive 2 page report of little significance. I was trawling through the BRS report the other day and know that crime scene photographs were taken in situ and of the brown Corvair once it had been removed into storage. Unlike Lake Herman Road and Presidio Heights, there is apparently no photographs published. I wonder if a FOIA request would be in order, however I hold out little hope that any request would be fruitful, as they just generally don't respond. Why do you think not one single photograph became available in the BRS attack, compared to LHR. I cannot reconcile this discrepancy.

Alex

1/6/2016 09:56:07 am

n"I actually feel as we have stated before that Donald Fouke and Eric Zelms were actually pawns of the SFPD, who undoubtedly leave been less than forthcoming, exemplified by the
comprehensive 2 page report of little significance."

Yes, like agreed previous, it's far too long with excessive rambling and over detailing of irrelevant info: In short we learned:

"Got broadcast 9:55, got to scene within a minute or two where I saw Yellow cab with deceased driver. Spoke to Reporting witness, went on a walk-about, came back to scene and left."

There is, without question, more written and logged reports & evidence because of the 'FOR INFO OF IDENT DVSN: SAN FRAN PD ADVISED. . .'

Wait a minute so what you are saying then is there is more people that were witness to things that night that was Eight yrs old and this Witness positively a suspect and neither this witness nor His/Her positively ID'd suspect are recalled in any official capacity?????

Obvious Question coming. . . WHY? WHY!!! OIII SFPD, I AIN'T GOING AWAY TILL YOU TELL ME THE TRUTH!!

Alex Lewis

1/24/2016 02:51:24 am

"From your tone Alex I suspect you are slightly sceptical of the Presidio Heights affair, surely not, the police always tell the truth."

That is beyond question and Scientific Fact. Take the FBI report above and it's urgency in 'SUTEL. ARMED & DANGEROUS' observation of said suspect. This is the most serious crime by a most dangerous armed suspect. Well, some seem to think at least.

Don Fouke doesn't seem bothered. He swore an Oath to Serve and PROTECT and in His own words, spots a WMA walking directly into an area where He knows an armed and dangerous lunatic lurks and, do we see Don warn WMA of the threat to life here? Well no, we can let Don use His own words to offer what He did.. .

"Saw it was a White Male... Step on the Gas!" ie, Fuck him.

Not just one non protecting cop this night, no no.

Enter 2nd protector of public A Pelissetti:

"I Saw a man walking a dog. I asked this Gentleman had He seen anyone and He told me 'No" And then apologised for accosting Him and declared, 'Please, go about your business.....nothing to see here!"

Why should they bother telling their respective White Male's to get off street as quickly as possible or for their safety, place them in the patrol car when you can just floor it and speed right past them?

Don sped up giggling and muttered OOOO, Going Northbound?? Gd luck with that fk-tard with elastic at the waist and on the cuffs.

Proceed on tonext block and encounter fellow 'Not bothered' cop A.P and "He stopped us and said He was tip-toeing after the nutcase lunatic that had just gone down the street.....Armed!

He is last seen heading for a house door, welllll you know, so what man who gives two shits?
Pedestrian out in area who's life is in extreme danger, come onnnnnn, exaggerating the seriousness we'll say.
Done speak to Eric ass He is blind and saw nout & ask Frank Peda a queston by all means.... if you can find Him first that is..

Alex Lewis

1/24/2016 03:41:59 am

Mind you Don does seem to have a clear and determined urgency to hit the accelerator, tyre screech around onto W. Pacific Avenue before again flooring it to Julius Kahn Playground and I can almost hear Eric plead:

"Donald.... Where are going Don....Don answer me please I am still blind and cannot see anything?"
Don: "West Pacific and J. Kahn Park, ETA 6 Seconds on red lights & siren...."
Blind Eric: "I didn't hear a radio update to proceed there or suspect is suspected to be in that area Donald....?"
Don: "That's cause none was issued, I know where suspect is Eric so relax! He wandered into a house at the corner of Maple."
Eric: "So why are we going to this...."
Don: "Gosh Eric you have a lot to learn by blind rookie friend! We, Blind Eric, are responding to a serious sea-saw experience before backup units start arriving....This way Blind Eric!

Alex

1/24/2016 07:38:26 am

I imagine if D. Fouke did stop and call over to WMA with Horn Rimmed specs of suspicion the questioning of said suspect was likely along these lines.....

https://youtu.be/sCa1w4QeJYI

Above: Best interrogation I have ever seen, :-)

Alex

2/22/2016 03:05:24 pm

Additional update to thread above Mr R.G. . ..

Alex Lewis

6/4/2016 09:42:41 am

Rich how many letters did you say were in the redacted name where it states "Eight year old witness Identified REDACT as possible subject in this matter"?

Only asking cause Now I have the non redacted document and know the name, just want to see if you were right.

Alex Lewis

6/4/2016 09:45:39 am

Oh I just saw your edit, Robert is your guess so I can assume it's a six letter name your going for. Close, but not quite lol.

Richard

1/6/2016 05:12:08 am

Alex answer me this. Phone calls could not be traced very quickly in 1969. In fact the operator had to keep the caller on the line for at least 15 minutes. In the Zodiac movie it was stated to Melvin Belli that "Pacific telephone says you must keep him on the line for 15 minutes."
This leads me to several questions regarding the 40 minute delay from the Blue Rock Springs attack to the phone call at Springs and Tuolumne. If the Zodiac lived in Vallejo or Benicia, why did he take the risk of heading to a payphone, when he could have delivered the short 20 second message from the comfort of his own home. I know home telephone ownership in 1969 was not what it is today, but any reasonably well off person could afford one. The Ferrin family certainly did. But what can we conclude from this, considering the Zodiac was relatively young. He didn't live independently and could not make the phone call with the assurance of not being overhead (ie; he was married or living with parents), he was in an extremely tight financial circumstance, so couldn't afford one (unlikely, because he had ready access to a vehicle and weapons), although he could have stolen them. Maybe he never phoned from home because he didn't live close by. However the time delay before placing the call seems to suggest he either went home to stash the weapon before returning to the payphone, travelled off to dump it somewhere (ie;LHR lake) or parked on a side street for a cooling off period. There was absolutely no imperative to make either call within the first hour, he could easily have waited, made the call several hours later and still boasted. Why the urgency, why the risk. Assuming he had a home telephone, was the reason he used payphones indicative of a married man, unwilling to risk being overheard at home placing either call. Or was it just simply he didn't own a telephone.

Alex Lewis

1/6/2016 06:42:30 am

Well even in the mid 80's I know live phone traces took between 5 and 8 minutes to locate where the call was being placed from. If Zodiac called from His home then they I am not sure Rich if "Pacific telephone says you must keep him on the line for 15 minutes." is for a live trace to catch Him at the phone in the act because they never traced the call in live time but later discovered the call came from Mental Hospital and Patient Eric Weil was found to have placed them.

"I wonder if a FOIA request would be in order. . .

Well I'm afraid I am not filing any more yet for Two reasons.

1. Don't wanna piss the FOIA Officer off by another "Dear FOIA Officer Davey. Only meeeeeeee. Welsh Chappie!!" Lol

2. They might Issue an International Arrest Warrant for Harassment of Government Agent and/or Agency. That Would be my worst nightmare come true and fear would consume me! The thought of them confiscating Me to a waiting Jet/Airbus would see them have to repeatedly tazer me until I could no longer fight and we'd be delayed for take off 3 to 4 hours they would have to drag me through the terminal kicking and screaming, then they'd have to pry each finger of both my hands off the metal supports that run up the side of the corridor from ticket agent to the Jet.

They'd basically need a few gallons of Sodium Thiopental to get me on and stay on mid flight cause as soon as I wake in flight I am telling myself "D.B Cooper can jump of a Boeing, so can I!!"

Lol no but there a fair bit to reply to here Rich and I will so as I get back. Got to nip out for a while but will answer/reply to the rest when I get back.

I am deliberately ignoring your reference to police and their potential to lie because that is simply absurd Richard as they wear A Uniform and as previously stated, it's a scientific fact that once police man puts His Police hat on, He's rendered incapable of lying Richard and everyone knows this. TUT!

:-()

Alex

1/7/2016 08:05:23 am

The overall question your asking then Rich is why use a payphone and risk being seen? Well, best way I can think to reply is to say, "Why stand out at Lake Berryessa in daylight hours looking like a complete lunatic?

I have said before Rich that this man time and time again gives the impression by His actions that He is neither interested nor in the slightest bit concerned with being seen by witnesses or His own capture that it can and does look like He's Arrogant to the extreme.
I look at the things like He hanging around the scene and cab for what is excessive time considering the deceased driver is slumped inside this car, a car that is not in the middle of nowhere but a busy intersection and I couple those actions with written declarations of "Like I have always said, I am crack proof" and it makes me consider just exactly what He may be hinting here. See Rich it's one thing to make the claim that I can beat Phil Taylor without any problem, but it's quite another for my a actions to back up the claim and actually beat Taylor. We'd soon discover that with A Venue, dart board and myself v Taylor, it would quickly be discovered that I claim to have some ability which, when put to the test, turns out I was talking complete crap.

Zodiac says He is crack proof Rich and many people overlook this specific term and what it actually implies and seem to lump it in with the like of His 'Police will never catch me because I have been too c clever for them' assertion. It's not, it's totally separate in it's definition.
Zodiac says to you and me He is crack proof Rich, then proceeds to act like a man that is not at all concerned or has the slightest worry that He may get caught at several of the scenes.

Richard

1/6/2016 05:27:09 am

The Zodiac needed privacy to write his countless correspondence, and a basement retreat seems ideal or his car. He boasted about mail ordering components for his bombs, had access to materials for his costume and carefully constructed the Berryessa costume. He had bought cards, writing materials, recited the Mikado and various other literary pieces. This takes time and privacy. His handwriting was vulnerable (if not faked) to be recognized by a close acquaintance or spouse, these are all risks, unless of course he was single. But then his mailing of letters predominantly from San Francisco, seemed to suggest he worked there and mailed en route. From what I gather from the Zodiac is he was a man of means, had a job, access to money, so buying a phone to send his threatening calls from the complete safety of home seems a logical choice.

Alex Lewis

1/8/2016 08:45:19 am

I think, if you look at His behaviour in general over that Ten Month Period, it becomes quite clear that the thrill of the kill itself wasn't enough, He seemed to want to take high and unnecessary risks in doing so.

I mean it wasn't just any Payphone He used to report His crime, No No. The Payphone He was calling from was the closest one in proximity to the Vallejo PD Building around the corner.
The high risk taking is essential for this man, or at least it would appear to be, in order that He may thumb His nose at the authorities. It appears to me to be party down to His sense of humour, a childish silly sense of humour that I completely get and understand lol. I imagine it would be very amusing to Him if and when they discover that, actually, when He was on the line bragging about what He had just done, if we'd stepped outside the station we'd almost be able to see Him because He was at the payphone just a few around the corner.

I don't think using any landline from a residence is going to be something wise and this is just because if you use a public payphone and somehow they trace it as being where the call came from and traced it quickly, as long as your gone and not there when squad cars come speeding from North, South E & W then there's no way to know who was using it because it's obviously a public phone. Trace a call back to a residential property and you may not be there when police show up but they will quickly discover who is associated with that property and who they are likely looking for.

Richard

1/10/2016 03:46:34 am

Found this today Alex, don't know if you already know, but here goes.
On October 20th, 9 days after the murder of Paul Stine, a Chinese Yellow Cab driver in San Francisco picked up a fare at the Fairmont Hotel. The address is 950 Mason Street, supposedly where Zodiac picked up Paul Stine. The Fairmont is 0.4 miles from the Westin St Francis. The passenger rode in the front seat and asked the driver to go to Presidio Heights. Nearing the destination the passenger made a late change and asked the taxicab driver to continue. He initially asked the cabbie to go to the Washington and Locust intersection, just two blocks shy of Washington and Maple, but at the last minute asked the driver to proceed to Arguello into the west gate, saying "my girl left my car there." He pulled out a revolver, robbed 30-35 dollars and then locked the cabbie in the trunk. However the gunman relinquished the keys of the cab, when the taxicab driver pleaded he may suffocate, although he didn't let him out of the trunk. Fortunately he was discovered by military police.
Unfortunately he described the man as Caucasian, about 24 yrs, 5'9", black hair and weighing about 130-140 pounds, the last of which seems a little shy of the perceived Zodiac weight.
On viewing the Paul Stine murder composite sketch, he said his observations differed, the man had longer hair, wore no glasses and was thinner. San Francisco Police Captain Martin Lee said there was an "amazing similarity' in the MO and "I'm inclined to believe it was Zodiac." I agree the MO is very similar, but the weight of the subject is way off, leading me to believe Captain Martin Lee is being extremely optimistic, unless Zodiac went to Weight Watchers and went on a starvation diet, coupled with running 1,000 miles a day. Nevertheless an interesting story I had never heard before.

Richard

1/10/2016 03:52:31 am

CORRECTION: The date of the event was SEPTEMBER 30TH, 11 days prior to the murder of Paul Stine.

Richard

1/10/2016 03:53:31 am

http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=129&u=14983612

Alex Lewis link

1/24/2016 02:11:32 am

Speaking of discovering articles or points/facts of interest Rich, check this out....

Remind you of Zodiac case much from unknown assailant to bumbling police patrolman....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texarkana_Moonlight_Murders

Alex Lewis

1/14/2016 08:59:22 am

Soon as I read that interesting report Rich, one word came to mind. . . Copycat.

This isn't Zodiac, not in my humble opinion anyway. He wouldn't be foolish enough to mirror the same crime He had committed just a couple of week before. For me, this offenders motive is genuine robbery and He is cashing in on the Zodiac's publicised crime just weeks before in the hopes this crime, perpetrated by a totally separate person, will be called another 'Zodiac crime.'

Richard

1/14/2016 09:06:23 am

Just above I corrected the date. It happened before the Zodiac murder. I too though don't believe it's Zodiac.

Richard

1/14/2016 09:09:14 am

Think I've solved the identity of the Vallejo Cop, in the statement "To prove that I am the Zodiac, ask the Vallejo cop about my electric gun sight which I used to start my collecting of slaves."
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/january-09th-2016

Richard

1/10/2016 04:06:24 am

However I do agree with Captain Martin Lee in one respect when it comes to eyewitness recollections, in that they are not very accurate.
He states "No two persons see the same thing, no matter what visual matter is involved. He has worked cases where a suspect who looked almost like a midget to one person, was seen by another witness as something of a giant. And when it comes to fast moving, emotion charged occurrences, you'd sometimes think witnesses were describing altogether different happenings. "

Alex Lewis

1/14/2016 09:16:35 am

"However I do agree with Captain Martin Lee in one respect when it comes to eyewitness recollections, in that they are not very accurate."

No doubt about that Rich. It's only fairly recently that eyewitness testimony is not taken as strong and clear evidence of a persons guilt if identified by a witness. There have been numerous cases down the years where a defendant has received the ultimate death sentence after a jury found them guilty based on the strength of one eye witness pointing them out as the offender.

That is party the reason I find the ID of a suspect by an Eight year old totally confusing in it's non mention anywhere. I mean if it was investigated and that ID person had a rock solid alibi thus making the eight year olds ID a mistaken one, why would they not just say that?

Richard

1/15/2016 12:00:59 am

Looking at the FBI files on the 8 year old witness it's safe to say the redacted portion is likely 7 letters long. Weighing up the odds, it could be argued that the child was giving over somebodies first name, suggesting they knew or knew of this person, likely local. It is either a very short double name which I doubt, much more likely that a child would reference a single name or Mr Jones for example. It is inconceivable that they would fail to follow this up, but as we know it happens all too often. Maybe they just disregarded the validity of testimony given by somebody so young, and took it with a pinch of salt. There were so many errors in the police investigation from the standpoint of the SFPD back in 69, nothing surprises me anymore.

Alex Lewis

1/15/2016 01:22:25 am

"Weighing up the odds, it could be argued that the child was giving over somebodies first name, suggesting they knew or knew of this person, likely local."

Well, Yes and No in my opinion. The redacted portion is wording by the Sacramento to the FBI and the Law Agencies would not refer to a suspect or POI on such informal first name terms. I would bet my last Pound Rich its a surname under the redact.

As for the ID itself we have two options.

1: Kid ID's suspect on scene somewhere near Maple and Jax streets after Armond asks the kid would He know Him and be able to point to Him if Armond placed kid in rear of patrol car to go after un-sub for purpose of 'STOP....THATS HIM MR POLICE MAN, HIM THERE BY THEM STEPS" Sort of scenario.

2: He named Him as you suggested after recognizing Him as a local..

Alex

1/15/2016 01:34:48 am

The name redacted Rich, I am almost sure of it Rich, if ever released will be known to you and I and demand a reaction from us of "WHAT! That's who the kid ID'd as Zodiac? What the hell was He doing out in that area!"

The cops don't forget to mention positive witness Identification at crime scenes Rich because it's counter intuitive because it's in police interest to say a suspect has been positive ID'd and suspect is under arrest and an investigation is underway to reassure and put public concern at ease. To completely forget to mention anyone was even known to be out there or name was dropped as the offender by witness Richard is something that they would do only if it would do more damage to reveal the ID'd suspects name to public than it would reassure them.

Alex

1/15/2016 02:57:03 am

And when I say: " To completely forget to mention anyone was even known to be out there or name was dropped as the offender by witness Richard is something that they would do only if it would do more damage to reveal the ID'd suspects name to public." people may think that is pure speculation and, yes, they absolutely right.

I cannot prove beyond a doubt that Name redacted is that of a Man the authorities are deliberately keeping from you and I, but I know that when the Dpt. of Injustice reply via the FBI it will be to tell me that the FOIA request I submitted was reviewed under the FOIPA blah blah blah and then "Not applicable to, nor can be subject to any FOIA Request and they'll Cite some sub-section of the FOIA Act exemptions list. When they do respond I will be here to let you know that I've been unsuccessful and again use that denied name release as circumstantial grounds to support my theory of 'They really would prefer we didn't know who was ID'd as being there that night' claim.

That is why SFPD tell TV Show offering to cover all costs of DNA testing to piss off, before the Homicide Chief tells two of His detectives if they ask Him again for the Z case files to take home and investigate in their own 'out of work hours' time He'll personally transfer them to desk duties etc.
All of this really doesn't smack of actions by a person or people who already know the answers to that question that your asking them.

Richard

1/15/2016 04:39:42 am

I am going to request the Blue Rock Springs photographs. There should be no evidential reason to deny these, although they probably will.

Your Secret Al

1/15/2016 09:11:56 pm

"I am going to request the Blue Rock Springs photographs. There should be no evidential reason to deny these, although they probably will. "

Depends I think mate. If the photo's contain something that they have never released to the public for purposes of potential later evidence only they and the naughty one will know then, well then they'll claim it's an open and ongoing case and as such, this could, what's the technical legal term again. . . oh yeah, fuck up their arrest, charge and convicting of the Zodiac Killer. i
They'll likely have to exhume Him and the prosecutor will have to cross examine a skull on the witness stand.

Alex

1/18/2016 01:28:00 pm

Rich I think I see your meaning is when you hypothesize:

"Looking at the FBI files on the 8 year old witness it's safe to say the redacted portion is likely 7 letters long. Weighing up the odds, it could be argued that the child was giving over somebodies first pname, suggesting they knew or knew of this person, likely local. It is either a very short double name which I doubt, much more likely that a child would reference a single name or Mr Jones for example. "

The reason that the sentence only refers to this person by one singular name where it does is because this is the 2nd page of a Two page request for fingerprint comparison for several named suspects on the first page of the two.
The suspects Name, His full Name and Current Location will be One of the several names Listed on Page 1.
So when Sacramento add a bullet point at the end for the Attention of Identification Division, they are able to simple refer to Him as, for example, "Evans" as they will know the Ident Division will know 'Evans' that they refer to here is 'John Evans, Address....' that is listed as A suspect in page one for whom they are requesting rints be compared,

Richard

1/18/2016 01:40:35 pm

Got a link.

Alex

1/18/2016 01:48:50 pm

"Got a Link"

Link to What? The First Page? I did get the two page's of this document sent by FBI to me and for some reason, don't know why, they sent me the two pages downloaded to a disc which is around here in one of my CD Cases. Give me an hour Rich I'll go see if I can find it now. If I can't put my hand on it then I don't have a link offhand to page one but I know where it is featured and will get it that way. Be back Rich ASAP

Richard

1/18/2016 01:58:44 pm

Cheers Alex, yes page 1

Alex

1/18/2016 02:19:31 pm

I found the page I got from FBI, it's much better quality this one they sent me on Disc than the public release version.

Right, I'll edit this story-line above Above Rich to include, at the bottom, a 'PS: The Two Requested pages for Rich'

But I jst noticed Rich that there are Five Total suspects listed in this two page request, Four on Page one and the fifth and final suspect on page two right above the "FOR INFO OF IDENT DIVISION" and that's likely the full suspect name and address they make a reference to in the sentence below it.
The witnesses is noted as a witness in Cabbie slaying in San Francisco, the suspect listed but redacted on page 2 above this comment is from....? San Francisco. So you can pretty much say with fair degree of confidence that the page two redacted suspect and the one word redacted name seen for info of id dvsn is the same man. I'll upload both above Rich anyway. I'll comment here below this one simply with a "Done" when I have added and updated the abve story-line. Won't be long.

Alex

1/18/2016 02:35:59 pm

....Done Rich.

Richard

1/19/2016 05:27:08 am

Is that name Robert Hale West. It wouldn't be unusual for a kid to say that's Robert.

Richard

1/19/2016 05:29:12 am

Rh takes me back to Riverside.

Richard

1/19/2016 05:33:28 am

http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/14/94/58/13/stine_10.jpg

Looking at this and allowing for a gap left and right, the redacted name is definitely 6 letters long. Could well be our man Robert.

Richard

1/19/2016 05:35:27 am

http://i44.servimg.com/u/f44/14/94/58/13/stine_10.jpg

When image opens, click on it to expand for clearer view.

Richard

1/19/2016 05:51:02 am

Hope you don't mind Welsh (remove it if you want), but just wanted to temporarily show you that the redacted name has to be 6 letters long. I took 'Robert' off one page and superimposed it over the other, to show 7 letters would be too many. I have placed it at the foot of your article so you can see.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/3206028.gif?669

Richard

1/19/2016 06:29:53 am

There was also a Robert Sherman at 3616 Jackson Street. Very interesting that this is exactly where Fouke spotted Zodiac and just across from where Pelissetti met the man with the dog. I wonder if the 8 year old witness lived near the corner of Jackson and Maple and spotted Sherman near his residence at 3616 Jackson Street.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/3616+Jackson+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94118,+USA/@37.7902062,-122.4567107,602m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x8085872e2f56f2cb:0x5a90b8c79cd10c6c!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Richard

1/19/2016 06:34:32 am

Sorry Welsh 3616 Jackson Street is near the intersection of Jackson and Spruce, where I believe that Zodiac maybe entered the park.The 8 year old witness possibly lived near the corner of Jackson and Spruce.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/3616+Jackson+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94118,+USA/@37.7897529,-122.4549441,213m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8085872e2f56f2cb:0x5a90b8c79cd10c6c!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Richard

1/19/2016 06:37:58 am

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7899318,-122.4545663,3a,15y,5.15h,90.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shGrCLj1AffNgBI2cET5Znw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Richard

1/19/2016 06:51:53 am

My guess is that this 8 year old was triggered to look out of their bedroom window by the sound of Donald Fouke's police car siren and as the 8 year old peered out the window, they either spotted Robert Sherman entering, exiting or passing 3616 Jackson Street or another Robert along Jackson Street, OR the 8 year old saw the same man as Fouke, identifying him as Robert. Either way it is an interesting eyewitness that was 1. Never followed up or 2. Was, and nothing came of it. It could possibly have been Robert Sherman, but he was questioned and ruled out. Robert Hale West was a resident in San Francisco, but where.

Richard

1/19/2016 06:53:51 am

At least Robert Sherman was 13 letters long.

Richard

1/19/2016 07:05:55 am

Robert Sherman attended St Ignatius College Preparatory in 1974, a school in the Jesuit tradition, serving the San Francisco Bay Area since 1855, so was too young to be Zodiac obviously, but still could have been the Robert the 8 year old spotted and why this line of investigation was ceased. However if the Robert, is Hale West, and being a marine at Pendleton, all bets are still on Welsh.

Alex Lewis

1/19/2016 02:27:58 pm

"Is that name Robert Hale West."

Yeah Rich didn't I mention this before, I assumed you knew. This release of Robert H. West was in reply to my very first request in which asked for the named suspect ID's by witness in document to be released. That you see above is what the DOJ/FBI replied to me and I assumed, and stated over at Morf's site, that this was the name of the suspect ID'd by the witness.....and then Seagull pointed out that it's not likely to be because, and She did make this valid point, the name that specifically in the sentence addressed to the Ident Dvsn is still redacted and if Robert Hale West was that said man identified, then the one word name would no longer be redacted because they have relased His name above and His being at Camp Pendleton so they wouldn't need nor have any reason to keep that 2nd part of the Doc redacted.

Morf did a brief search when I first published the name and apparently, West was a Pastor in a Church somewhere after the relevant Z active period.

Alex Lewis

1/24/2016 07:20:15 am

"I wonder if the 8 year old witness lived near the corner of Jackson and Maple and spotted Sherman near his residence at 3616 Jackson Street."

Well that's the thing see Rich, it depends if you take the FBI document and the way it is worded as literal because it declares the eight year old to be A "Witness in the murder of Cab Driver" so if you are to tae this as literally word specific then the witness would have to observe suspect in, at or somewhere around Paul and the Taxi.
If you allow for it to be a more loose and Generalisation as in murder of the cabbie to make reference to the incident in general then you have all of Washington, Cherry and Jackson Streets to play with.

Alex Lewis

1/24/2016 07:11:16 am

Watching Episode of Forensic Files yesterday and an eye witness who not only saw suspect, but spoe briefly with Him for a few seconds, described him as:
WMA. 6' 2. age 40 - 45 and Weighing 220 - 230lbs.

Actual offender was 5 ft 10. Aged 20 and weighed 170lbs.

A composite sketch was drawn up of the offender based on that witnesses recollection. The Cop on the show said 'I never again gave suspect composites based on an eye witness much weight in terms of accurately resembling who we may be looking for.'

This He said based on witness being an Adult, in Zodiac case we have three observing witnesses who are just entering their teenage years.

Richard

1/24/2016 07:36:31 am

It is a bit strange that we know Donald Fouke, by his accounts, saw and passed a man walking on Jackson, and Pelissetti spoke to a man briefly at the corner of Jackson and Maple. These encounters were never mentioned in the paper as we know, but surely not knowing for sure whether the white male was indeed Zodiac, no press release ever appealed to these men to come forward as material witnesses in the following days and months after the crime. If the man on Jackson was or was not believed to be Zodiac, an appeal for the person to come forward surely would have been an obvious option, rather than never mentioning it to the San Francisco Chronicle whatsoever.

Alex Lewis

1/24/2016 09:27:00 am

My opinion, one I have never really felt unsure of and one of the more secure and sound beliefs I have always held is that Don Fouke's WMA and Army Pelissetti's WMA are One and the same.

This simply has to be the case Rich because if we introduce a WMA on sidewalk, elasticated waist and cuffs and said to be 'Him' with a second totally innocent WMA at Maple Intersection then how can have the it occur that:

WMA 1 and WMA 2 witnessed at the same Intersection, approx. the exact same time as the other, and innocent WMA not ever come forward to state He was witness to a Sinister Shuffling Shithead wobbling off down Maple or Up 3712's steps?

Similarly, How can Don see WMA 1 and Armond speak to WMA 2 within a minute of each other, and Don fail to seeArmonds WMA & Vice versa?

There is stretching it and then there snapping that which you've stretched way too far.

If we say 'Well, both White Males observed were same individual'....That explains it.

Alex Lewis

2/25/2016 11:55:25 am

" If the man on Jackson was or was not believed to be Zodiac, an appeal for the person to come forward surely would have been an obvious option, rather than never mentioning it to the San Francisco Chronicle whatsoever."

And therein Rich is exactly why I have always said that I believe Don Fouke Knows who it was He encountered that night. I mean before we ask why didn't they make a public TV appeal for the lone or two separate White Males encountered on Jackson and/or Maple, One by Armond, the other by Donald, we should ask how can it be that they did not follow them most basic police procedure and request and acquire the WMA's details on the night itself if not as suspect, then basic potential witnesses?

Armond "I ask that Gentleman had He seen anybody in the area ad He told Me 'No."

Armond admits speaking with a White Male in the vicinity of the crime, and remember, at this point now Armond knows and fully acknowledges that He is aware the Offender is A White Male, Not Black, because the Kids had told Him and yet despite this, He fails to secure this White Male's details? Absolute F'ing Bull Shit in my opinion!

Similar can be said for Fouke, although Donny has the luxuary of pretending to be under the impression that He's looking for a BMA at the time, another wonderful example of total Bull shit in my opinion, He nonetheless, like His colleague Pelissetti, fails to perform the most basic of police procedure in mouthing "What's your name?" followed by "Can I see some ID please as we have a Homicide 200 Yards away occurred within that last half hour or so." But no, why do that when we can 'Step on the Gas...?"

So my position and stance on this point is and always has been, they didn't put out any appeals for the WMA that police saw and/or spoke with that night for the simple reason that they had no cause or need to do this due to them already knowing the Identity of that man out there (I believe there was only one WMA, the same one seen by Don and Armond and if that is accurate then there's why they never put out appeals and claim to not have stopped to speak....because Don, like Pelissetti, knows very well it was K. H. Qvale that He stopped and called over that night.)

Alex Lewis

4/2/2016 10:02:22 pm

"no press release ever appealed to these men to come forward as material witnesses in the following days and months after the crime. If the man on Jackson was or was not believed to be Zodiac, an appeal for the person to come forward surely would have been an obvious option, rather than never mentioning it to the San Francisco Chronicle whatsoever."

Now that's exactly how I look at it. I mean I go further by coming to a conclusion based on the illogical and almost unbelievable claim that the Identities of Don's WMA and Armond's WMA respectively were never secured on the night itself.

There's a Homicide scene one block from Don's WMA, same exact can be said of Armonds Un-Sub White Guy. I mean if every single person in the Z community that knw this case intimately inside out, if every one said they believe the cops claim of not knowing the identities of the men they spoke to then, brilliant and everything but Me? Well I will still not believe that the both cops failed to do the most basic and essential duty of getting the names of anyone near a crime scene when you know the suspect can't be more that 2 blocks away because the dispatcher gave the radio alert as Crime in Progress less that a few minutes previous.

I mean I am not saying that necessarily have to suspect the men they encounter in order to ascertain name and identity, you ask them for the potential of them maybe having some useful testimony as a witness in the future. But No, Oh no! We will not have our police officers running around the Bay Area asking White people what their name's are when homicide incident is 2 feet away. Ludicrous! Rubbish! I simply do not believe them!

Richard

1/10/2016 08:37:51 am

Watch this documentary on the Fiction of Memory
https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_loftus_the_fiction_of_memory?language=en

Richard

1/10/2016 08:55:19 am

And this short 5 minute extract....
http://www.today.com/video/today/54999931

Richard

1/10/2016 09:10:17 am

Try this 1 minute test. http://www.today.com/video/today/54999931

Richard

1/10/2016 09:11:18 am

Correction http://eyewitness.innocenceproject.org/take-the-quiz/

Alex Lewis

1/14/2016 12:50:05 pm

It's uncanny Rich this should be the topic because just the other night I was out riding my motorcycle at around 2, maybe 2;30am and I came round a blind corner and on my right, walking toward me on the pavement under the street lights, was a random guy who I didn't see/look at for more than 2, two and a half seconds, three at a absolute maximum.

I learned that while I couldn't tell you what He wore, His facial description I can still remember vividly and this kinda changed my view and opinion because previously I thought a night sighting, at appox. 75 yds, would render facial characteristics beyond visual capability. I revise that theory now.

Secret Pal Al

1/15/2016 09:20:58 pm

Hey Rich, found a person what can 'Inspect the Zodiac as He appears now as a 'discarnate Entity.'

"We find the one you seek as the Zodiac Killer, Leaning back into the shadows ...." This is in the After Life and everything.

It must be true Richard this man is a Reverend with his very own Ph.D! Yes, He got it off ebay for A tenner but this is neither here nor there you see as it's a P h.D!!

Take it away Rev Ls.D....

Secret Pal Al

1/15/2016 09:21:37 pm

LINK: https://youtu.be/ItvEd8ih4vs

Richard

1/15/2016 11:52:29 pm

As Christopher Hitchens said if you can stick Reverend in front of your name you can get away with almost anything.

Alex

1/18/2016 01:41:56 pm

Richard, like it!! That was a good and witty response and it did make me smile with appreciation, :-)

But on the FOIA issue and the Blue Rock Photo's etc, The FBI send with each release to the requester a sheet which is entitled 'Exemption List' which is self explanatory. If you want I'll upload it tomorrow via scanner and email on to yourself if it helps at all. At least then you can read though the types of info exempt, reasons they may deem info exempt and everything else associated.

I am not implying you wouldn't already know most of what they probably won't release Rich, I just offer because it helped me to get a better understanding of it.
After all, I did not even know if I, as A UK Citizen or, more notably, Non-US National, would even be eligible. I had to email the FBI to ask do they accept Requests from Non-Us Citizens lol.

Alex Lewis

1/30/2016 07:10:50 pm

Just to keep you 'In the Know' Rich, emailed the FBI and asked them for my FOIPA request No. so that I can track it's progress via the FBI website vault.

The Agent who emailed me gave me the requested reference and also said He/She had checked it's current status and that it's in the initial stages of being processed under FOIPA by a case officer at the Dpt. of Justice.

I shall keep you informed of the process and it's outcome, whatever that may be. But, I'm afraid, I am refusing to relese it to the general community in hopes of infuriating them that are more important than un-willing to submit & outspoken Brit.

If they don't believe in freedom speech is for all, then I shall decide neither is Freedom of Information.

Here is a clip showing the infuriated website owner panicking when informed I have the weapon of free speech to use at my disposal.....

"Oh, the Welsh Slave has a Weapon! GAURD MODS, DIS-ARM HIM IMMEDIATELY....THERE'S A SLAVE WITH A WEAPON OHHH GOOD LORD!! How Dare he believe that the vile scum! I shall have Him Euthanized Immediately! How dare He not wish to be a slave......." Hehe. Link with 1:49 relevant:

https://youtu.be/3kFB03xyU7I?t=1m49s

Alex Lewis

1/30/2016 08:29:27 pm

Well then The founding Fathers of America were Terrorists against the Crown, The First Amendment is a Vicious Crime!

How DARE YOU! I'll have Welsh Chappie Disarmed Immediately! You can't allow Slaves to have a Weapons!

Brit's are not allowed to talk back, we have said so! No proof to say so!"

Richard

1/31/2016 12:48:42 am

Cheers Welsh, keep me in the loop. I don't hold out much hope for my request.

Alex

1/31/2016 11:09:37 am

In my experience Rich the average waiting/reply time for a successful FOIA is around 6 Months. That's what Kane's background/arrest record took. The Robert H. West was about the same, maybe a tad quicker in receiving it. Mind you, the Six months wait period was when the FBI were in the process of adding/uploading their fileson the Website vault and on site it stated they were fairly backlogged. Not sure how they are with that backlog at present, if it's been caught up or partly or all the backlog still exists.

What did you ask for, Photos? When did you submit it?

Richard

1/31/2016 01:53:05 pm

Photographs of the Blue Rock Springs crime scene 1 month ago and the 'In the woods dies April' Card about 8 months ago.

Alex Lewis

2/2/2016 11:26:09 am

Well I have heard of other requests taking as long as two years to get a response but if it's just the crime scene photo's you've asked for then I don't see why they would take anywhere near 8 months to let you know with a response.

Do you want the email address to ask for a status update on your request? If you do, ask them for the FOIA request Number associated with your request so that you can track the progress online yourself. All you need is the date you submitted the request, the title of it (I copied and pasted the first Paragraph of my request so they would know which one I was referring to).

If you want the email address let me know and i'll forward it to you. It's unusual for them to simply not reply at all, although it did happen to me in one previous request for the name release of the suspect ID'd and so I just filed another one. But anyone, let me know mate.

Alex.

Alex Lewis

2/6/2016 08:55:16 am

Hey Rich, checked my pending FOIA status today and it's changed and no longer states it's in the initial processing stage with a case officer at the DOJ. It now comes back as:

"Case Type: FOIPA

Process Description: The FBI's FOIPA Program is processing your request in accordance to the Freedom of Information and Privacy Acts guidelines."

Now that could mean they are processing their response to inform me to piss off, or processing the actual response and release. The DOJ will usually write back to tell you themselves if the privacy law is still in force relating to your request, ie, person is still alive but this seems to have been returned to the FBI and in my experience they only do that when they are giving the OK for the FBI to go ahead and release the requested info as no privacy statute will be breeched.

You'll be first to know mate either way.

Alex Lewis

2/6/2016 09:00:18 am

If you want to ask what happened to/the status of the requests you submitted mate, you need to contact:

Lauren McGuinn
Public Liaison/GIS
Record/Information Dissemination Section (RIDS)
FBI-Records Management Division

Email to contact Her is: [email protected]

Alex Lewis link

2/3/2016 01:34:38 am

Came across this new presentation of the Zodiac Ciphers, specifically the Unsolved 340, that was given at the Cryptologic History Symposium on October 22, 2015.

There have been several people emailing me to talk about their cipher decoding theories, and have gone through long and complex explanations and as much as I really do appreciate and am flattered they'd choose to message me to run their efforts by, I really am the wrong person to get into the finer points of mathematical deconstruction of The Homophonic Substitution Cipher, I know very little about cryptography and said on Morfs site a few times I leave the Cipher and analysing them to people who are far more qualified and knowledgeable than I am about the topic. But recently I have had several emails from different people with their theories.

Anyway, Link: https://youtu.be/BV5R3TBMWJg

Alex Lewis

2/6/2016 09:17:15 am

Rich are you UKSpyCatcher over at 'That' website? I just went onto my wordpress site and noted a fair amount of traffic had arrived via a link/thread on that website and a forum called 'Forum member Welsh Chappie' where it is speculated that I have vanished from the Zodiac threads and community.

Tell them please Richard that Chappie stated 'This is wishful thinking. I have never gone anywhere and my Kane Wordpress site is not deactivated and yes, there is news expected on the eight year old and who they identified as Paul Stines Killer'

Richard

2/6/2016 02:15:44 pm

Yes I am Mr Welsh. I sent a message for you, it reads "Welsh Chappie has never gone anywhere and his Kane Wordpress site is not deactivated and yes, there is news expected on the eight year old and who they identified as Paul Stine's Killer.' Welsh Chappie is in great form and a bigger blabbermouth than ever before, in fact I can't shut the lunatic up, god help me." Long live Mr Welsh Chappie.

Alex Lewis

2/6/2016 05:56:01 pm

Why thank you Mr G, much obliged.

Yes, I am still here and non conformist. I am the only person to request I be upgraded from a several hour chat restriction to an outright ban and have my request granted.

"We'll have to restrict His chat, He will not submit to our demands and we don't like people arguing back when the orders are handed down to them. Shut Him up.....Disarm the Welsh One Immediately! He can go and stand in the corner until He realizes what He has done and apologizes to us and bows to our tyranny. He may be over in that corner for a while yet, why won't this person follow the others and do as He is told! We have a hierarchy here, Mods can say anything abusive and not be challenged, if a member is unwilling to accept they are slaves without a right to reply, we shall have them ejected from our Royal Tyrannical Presence...What what?

Alex Lewis

2/7/2016 09:30:57 am

"in fact I can't shut the lunatic up, god help me."

Well the Divine and the speaking to Moses account is itself Lunacy Richard. A Bush, flames erupting yet not consumed, and Moses, who's alone on the summit of this remote place hears thunderous Earth Shaking Voice come thundering from this bush which would render me collapsing in a shaking heap of stuttering terror and apparently Moses responds ..."Yes? Here I am." like it's the most normal everyday event to have a bush shouting your name while it's deciding to be on fire also.
I'd be running like shit,diving down and rolling all the way to the bottom of Sinai and demanding "HELPPPP....HELLLLLP!" All the way down.

Moral of this is Richard, you cannot compromise a lunatic like me into being quiet, using logic and intellect to argue with insanity will get you nowhere I am afraid.
Sorry, but my Burning Bush must be observed!

Alex Lewis

2/7/2016 09:45:51 am

This is why, you see, Yahweh God of Israel did not decide to ask me "Go unto Pharaoh and say, thus says the Lord God of Israel...."

because I'd turn up at Pharaoh's Royal Palace and announce:

"Pharaoh Amenhotep III, thus says the Lord God of Israel.....Fuck you twat face!"

Then run away very quickly and go back to God and tell Him..."Pharaoh said tell God to take His demands and stick them up His divine backside....Shall we get the frogs and grasshoppers out Yahweh??"

Alex Lewis link

2/7/2016 11:47:25 am

On a serious note though, the words of one Neil Armstrong echo and bounce off the Zodiac Case Hypothetical evidence room:

"For there are many discoveries to be made for those who can remove one of Truths Protective Layers."

Comments are closed.

Alex Lewis {Welsh Chappie)

"I am the same Welsh Chappie that resides in the NEWPORT Area of South Wales, a City that had this hit The Parody, Newport State of Mind recorded on Location in and around the City. My own site with all facts and info on suspect Lawrence Kane can be visited via this link".

The Presidio Frights

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