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RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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Individual I saw was A WMA Approx. 35 - 45 Yrs...

8/27/2017

 
This article was written by Alex Lewis (Welsh Chappie), whose own site detailing Zodiac suspect Lawrence Kane, can be found here.

Zodiac's Age, like a lot of other things about Him, is open to speculation and/or interpretation dependant upon who it is Your asking. Some will insist that this killer, like the FBI statistics seem to imply, will be a White Male, Mid Twenties to Early Thirties. He will, most say, fall within the 'Expected' age range that the FBI Profilers suggest Serial Killers will be when they begin their reign of terror. However, lets not turn to statistic, let's not rely on odds of probability, let's use the facts as we know them to be to determine what the likely age of this offender was in 1969.

 First, let's look at Bryan Hartnell and His comments. It is commonly mis-quoted that He suggested His hooded attacker had a young and youthful sounding voice. This, like many other things in the Zodiac case, is untrue.  First, Bryan was asked to go along to listen to the voice that called in to the Jim Dunbar show claiming to be the Zodiac Killer. Here is what Bryan said after being played the recording...

 "That's not Him. The voice on that tape isn't even in the range of what I remember the Zodiac's voice as sounding like. The voice of the man who stabbed me was much deeper and older sounding than that man on that recording."  The article continues and states that Bryan's opinion was: "Backed up by Napa's David Slaight and Vallejo's Nancy Slover who both had also heard the voice of the real killer."

 So, that is age recognition via audible educated guessing, lets now turn to actual eye witnesses recollection of Z for age approximation. This eye witness is a witness with extra credibility! He isn't just your average man on the street eye witness, this is a trained observer and SFPD Patrol Officer, Donald Fouke. Lets examine both a statement He made mid Nineteen Eighties and then again in 2007. First, the earlier of the two:

 "The individual I saw that Night was a White Male Adult, Thirty Five to Forty Five Years of age, Five ft Ten and weighing approx. 180 to 210lbs."   Straight forward enough, in a nut shell, a middle aged white guy. Let's go to 2007:

  "I noticed, on the North side of the street, A White Male Adult wearing a derby, or three quarter waist length jacket that had elastic at the waist and on the cuffs and regular flap down collar. He had a crew cut, He was wearing rust coloured pleated trousers which were unusual for that time. He had on engineering type boot, a lot cut show, tan in colour." Fouke gave no Approx. Age audibly here but a composite was shown while He described the male. This was the face of the WMA as remembered by Don Fouke, the trained observer:



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Fouke did mention that a Senior Detective, possibly Dave Toschi but He couldn't be sure that is who it was, came out to speak with Him and presented Fouke with the sketch as provided by the Robbins Kids/witnesses. Fouke recalled telling His senior that the man in the sketch He was being shown, quote: "He looked similar to the man I had seen on Oct. 11th but I told Him the Suspect (as He remembered seeing Him) was older and heavier (than how they had Him appearing in the circulated composite drawing seen below:



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So, how old was the Un-Sub we all seek to identify? Why is His accurate age important? Why would the above circulated composite do more harm than good? These questions are of extreme importance because if Fouke is correct and the above composite which is the standard accepted best know and most accurate depiction of the face of the man called Zodiac is wrong and He is actually older and heavier than He looks in the above drawing, then that sketch circulated could simply end up helping Zodiac evade detection because He could be sat in an interview room suspected of being Zodiac and have detectives look at Him, a heavy set male around 40 to 45 years of age and look down at the Zodiac composite of a thin faced, late 20's to early 30's age range and decide: "Na, that guy in there can't be Him. Too Heavy and too old. Let Him go."
Richard
8/27/2017 02:07:36 pm

If Fouke was correct about graying hair in his recollection, then this likely suggests in probability terms, a man in his thirties, backing up his age range of 35-45. Certainly he is the person who got the closest and clearest look at the killer, particularly because he stopped the killer as we contend. His clothing also suggested somebody of more mature age, noted also by the three girls at Berryessa (if the Zodiac). The eyewitnesses at Spruce also determined the man they saw running into JKP was in his early forties, just a couple of minutes after the Fouke sighting. My estimate for the killer would be between 33-40.

Richard
8/27/2017 02:19:58 pm

The above sketches by the teenagers were what they recollected at distance, in dark shadowy lighting. Dark shadowy lighting has a thinning effect on the face. Donald Fouke on the other hand we believe spoke to Zodiac face to face. When we were teenagers many moons ago, I know I found it extremely difficult to estimate the age of older people, but with aging and experience, it becomes easier, with more life experience. I don't place too much weight on the age estimation of the teenagers. Donald Fouke, for all his contradictions in the 2007 documentary was far better placed to estimate the killer's age, because he was closer to the age of the killer.

Alex Lewis
8/27/2017 04:32:11 pm

Not only does the standard and accepted Composite/s show a Male I would say looked to be 25 -35 years of age but it depicts a younger looking late 20's - early 30's who has a slim and V Shaped facial shape from cheek down to jawline but the cheek bones themselves appear to show as you may find on a thin, somewhat gaunt Male in appearance. The Composite that was drawn up and then the amended one also both do not appear to be consistent with an individual who Hartnell estimated weighted around 250lbs at least and was bulky and heavy or overweight. Fouke seemed to also back up Hartnell's observation of a big framed and larger individual by describing the guy on Jackson as around, possibly exceeding the two hundred pound mark as He stated in His Memo:

" Subject was a WMA. 35-45 Yrs of age. 180-200lbs. Medium to Heavy build. Barrel Chested"

If He'd have said next: "Heavy build, 200lbs with a slim, gaunt and cheek bone protruding face..." I would imagine His superiors would have put Him on 2 week paid leave due to his suspect mental state!

Alex Lewis
8/27/2017 04:48:49 pm

Zodiac's Age and the accuracy of the circulated sketch with amended update are, for me at least, not just some non significant thing because every patrol cop in the City would have had a copy of the Sketch and would burn that face into their memory cause catching the real life inspiration for that drawing would mean a glittering career ahead starting with their immediate promotion in rank and standard award for Police Officer of the year etc and this is theoretically what would happen at least but in reality, it may have been the case, every cop was given a composite that was nothing like the true offender. The differences in the two above I put in the article are obvious and clear..... The first and lone drawing shows a Male with distinctive widows peak, frowning lines on forehead due to age that clearly depicts a man around 37 - 43 in my personal opinion.

I realise others may see it differently or the age of the man depicted at least but, either way, if Fouke is right and that composite is off in weight and age then it's no wonder the Zodiac never did contest the accuracy of it like He did with claims he'd left his fingerprint that could and most likely will be matched to a name, which Z dismissed by announcing it simply a 'Fake Clew'. The composite He immediately acknowledged was spot on and accurate! "I look like the composite drawing passed out (circulated) only when I do my thing...." I would have thought Z would not have given an inch seen as this was a response letter in which He refuted every single claim Chief Lee had made about Him.....except the accuracy of the sketch. I wonder why?

Alex 'of A Possible Welsh Ancestry' Lewis link
10/5/2017 01:40:26 pm

Well Fouke has never wavered nor been contradictory as to the WMA's descriptive detail. White Male, 35 - 45 years of age. Navy blue Parka type jacket zipped part the way up. Rusty color pleated pants/trousers with tan color type of engineering style boot. Crew cut with receeding hairline, which was light in color & possibly greying at rear.

Now, straight away if you were new here and heard that as a description of a spotted suspect you'd likely assume, rightly so, that this is a description coming from a person who had a vey good and close proximity view of the said subject and that given the color of each and every garment given by witness, the said witness would have been viewing un-sub while the Un-Sub was under lighted conditions for a prolonged period (30 seconds or more) and that given the witness can describe the v shaped front hairline that is receding plus the back of this mans head appearing to be sporting a few greys, this witness must almost surely have been stood right in front of our Un-Sub before The Un-Sub turned and walked away thus allowing for the witness to observe "Ahh-ha! Greying at the rear!"

If told "Well actually, no. This description came from a 5, 10 maybe 15 seconds sighting that saw the witness not stop but is in vehicle that is in continual motion on street and subject is walking down sidewalk and the initial 'viewing' see's the witness 75 yards distance from His subject with tan shoes and greaying hair at rear of head. .. . You, the new comer to the case, would struggle to accept the mere possibility of this being true.

I, and it's my stance only, would congratulate you on being correct in that it is not true, and the witness in a cop uniform gave this description after He, as Offender later went on to clarify, called the offender over to Him to question him briefly/


Comments are closed.
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    Alex Lewis {Welsh Chappie)
    "I am the same Welsh Chappie that resides in the NEWPORT Area of South Wales, a City that had this hit The Parody, Newport State of Mind recorded on Location in and around the City. My own site with all facts and info on suspect Lawrence Kane can be visited via this link".

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