"Eight yr old witness Identified Xenophon L. Anthony as possible subject in this matter."

6/8/2016

This article was written by Alex Lewis (Welsh Chappie), whose own site detailing Zodiac suspect Lawrence Kane, can be found here.

For anyone interested in the Suspects name that was Identified as 'Possible Subject in this matter', that matter being the murder of Stine, I've uploaded the Document sent to Myself by the Dpt. of Justice showing His name.

As shown below, The man's name was Xenophon L. Anthony (No E in Xenophon, misspelled in the document below). His residential Address in October of 69 was: 3218 Jackson Street. He would have been 38 years of age in 1969. Below is the Second & relevant Doc. showing Anthony's details

The reason the Dpt. of Justice released the Name now is because Mr Anthony passed away in early 2016. The deceased being exempt from Privacy Laws goes back to the original Latin Law Maxims and specifically:

Actio personalis moritur cum persona - A Personal action dies with the Person.

"Actions are personal to the plaintiff, with Defamation of Character being a notable example. Therefore, such an action, where it relates to the private character of the plaintiff, comes to an end upon his death. "
um persona. - A personal action dies with the Person

As for the witness His/Herself and who they are is open to question. We have no official report relating to any identification of suspect made, nor any witness even being on hand to offer it. Not from the San Francisco PD anyway. We are lucky that the person who wrote the above Teletype to the FBI's Identification Division did so while believing it was important enough to make mention in the Teletype that the Fifth and Final listed Named Suspect, Xenophon L. Anthony, was identified by a witness as being 'Possible subject in this matter.' The reason the writer added this extra information for the Ident. Division is because it's such a significant piece of evidence. He know's it, it's just a shame the original Investigators at the San Francisco Police Department didn't bother to record it in any official capacity.

Please allow me to add My own little PS: FOR INFO OF SAN FRAN PD. . .

Law Maxims:

- One eye witness is better than ten ear ones.

- In law, none is credited unless he is sworn. All facts must, when established by witnesses, be under oath or affirmation.

- Proofs are to be weighed not numbered; that is, the more worthy or credible are to be believed.    It does not matter how many people believe a lie, it's still a lie

-  In ambiguous things, such a construction is to be made, that what is inconvenient and absurd is to be avoided.

-  Suppression of fact, which should be disclosed, is the same in effect as willful misrepresentation.

Then to end: A Very relevant Maxim as per this witness referred to simply as 'Eight Year Old':

- No Witness is bound to expose himself to misfortune and dangers.

Richard

6/7/2016 06:22:51 am

Fantastic work Welsh, that's a bit of a mouthful. What is your take on this finding. Where exactly is 3218 Jackson Street. Going out today, talk more tomorrow. Richard.

Alex Lewis

6/7/2016 03:03:10 pm

" Where exactly is 3218 Jackson Street?"

It's literally off Presidio Ave where Fouke came from. Turn off Presidio Avenue onto Jackson and it's halfway between Presidio & Jackson Intersect and the next Intersect of Walnut.

Alex Lewis

6/7/2016 02:50:25 pm

Difficult to say what My take on Him is without knowing who the witness was and why or how it came about that He/She Identified Him.

What I do know is: Fouke said the WMA was aged 35-45, Anthony was Thirty-Eight in 1969
.
Fouke said "I assumed He (The Zodiac) didn't live in the neighborhood" and if it was Anthony He stopped, He would know Anthony did live there a couple blocks away.

You'd Think, or I would anyway, that upon a witness Identifying A suspect that Fouke would be asked to come see Him to be asked "Is this the man you saw that night also?"

Then again maybe it was the other way around. Maybe Fouke was the one to first stop Anthony and, being suspicious of Him, called for the witness to be driven by Him to ask is that the man who just left the cab?

Alex Lewis

6/7/2016 07:22:15 pm

Taken the liberty to contact one of the former SFPD Inspectors who had & worked the Z Case and asked:

"Hi *****, hope you don't mind me contacting you but I recently viewed your video where you went to Washington and Cherry to commemorate the senseless murder of Cab Driver Paul Stine by Zodiac. I was just waiting to ask did you know why a witness Identified Xenophon Anthony, resident of Jackson St, as the man who had murdered Paul? Thanks, Alex"

Tomorrow I shall be phoning David Toschi repeatedly till He takes me call an Question before I annoy the peaceful retirement of Armond Pelissetti with "Oi, Armond, whats this? THIS! Xenophon? Ring any bells?"

You pressure Law Enforcement Richard you Harass the fk out of them!

:-)

Alex Lewis

6/7/2016 07:38:48 pm

No but to be serious Rich, I don't want to know the name of this witness, I fully respect their right to remain nameless unless they wish to come forward.

However, yes, we know the unreliability of eye witness Identifications and must keep this in mind. But on the other hand, nobody has ever claimed to see te Zodiac in the act of murdering/attacking a victim and subsequently positively Identify a person by Name as the Zodiac and as such, I contend this is the most crucial and vital lead to follow up as best we can for amateur's to try and rule Xen out and His Ident by the witness as flawed and until we can do that, this guy for me is, of all the suspects, the most prominent and likely to be Zodiac.
That's not to say He is or even that I think He is, but based on the preponderance of evidence (witness at scene ID'ing Him) He simply has got to be until evidence can be found to the contrary.

Richard

6/8/2016 12:19:43 am

Is this Xenophon Lusby Anthony, got married aged 25 in 1956 to Valerie Ann Moore in California. He was born in Washington to Marc and Ruth Anthony.
https://www.myheritage.com/names/xenophon_anthony

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 12:50:38 am

That's Him. There's a photo of Him in His Online Obituary as an older guy. No idea what He looked like in 1969.

Richard

6/8/2016 12:24:53 am

He graduated from Lakeside School in Seattle in 1949 and from Harvard in 1953. He and Valerie were married in 1956 and lived in San Marino, California for ten years before moving to San Francisco which became their long-time home. They also had a second home in Inverness located in the Point Reyes National Seashore area where Xen enjoyed doing many landscaping and remodeling projects. The family cherishes the many happy years spent there. Xen worked in retail and wholesale businesses until 1976 when Valerie founded Sterne School, a school for children with learning differences. Xen became Business Manager and so much more, as he took great care of the school building and was always willing to do anything that needed to be done. He and Valerie retired in 2000 and divided their time between Inverness and Spokane before making Spokane their permanent home in 2005.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/spokesman/obituary.aspx?pid=177366135

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 01:05:13 am

This morning I have been thinking of writing to Fouke just to ask Him based on a witness at the scene identifying a local man as them witnessed having murdered Paul, could He confirm or deny that the individual He observed on Jackson was Xen Anthony?

Fouke surely has to know whether the person He observed was subsequently identified by a witness back at the scene.

Richard

6/8/2016 01:11:19 am

Have you got his contact details.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 01:23:21 am

Yeah Don's name and address is on online, just have to Google Donald A. Fouke.

Richard

6/8/2016 01:33:51 am

http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-8-year-old-witness-name-released

Alex Lewis

8/16/2016 08:21:17 pm

Yes, that's 'The' Xen in question.

I was mulling over in my mind the potential for Xen, if questioned and told of the witness Identifying Him as being the Man at the Taxi, could come up with a scenario that would be difficult to disprove. Something such as this, for example & in my own words. . .

"Look, I admit that yes, it was Me at the cab and yes, I opened the door and leaned in Officer but it was only after I glanced at the cab and noticed a slumped Gentleman who appeared to be bleeding. I opened the door and leaning in, I felt for a pulse while asking "Can you hear me Sir. . .?" I got no response from the Man verbally, nor felt any signs of a pulse. It was while feeling for the drivers pulse that I noticed what appeared to be a gunshot wound to the Drivers head. I pulled back out of the vehicle, shut the door and immediately I became hyper-vigilant and aware of what was around me.

He could the continue by offering:

"If you think about it Officer, if I were the person responsible for this homicide, wouldn't you expect witnesses to see me fleeing in haste from the cab? The reason I was walking slow and casual was because I did not wish to either startle the gunman if still close by, nor draw His attention to Myself by appearing to be running to get help. I never called for Help because as I arrived Home, I could hear converging police sirens coming to a stop a few streets over where the cab was. I never came forward as a witness either through sheer fear."

This kinda excuse could also be used if the print was accidentally left by Xen with: "Yes, of course that bloodied fingerprint is mine, I have already told you I was feeling for a pulse from the neck area of a Man that had a head wound & bleeding from it very severely. In steadying myself to back out of the cab, I naturally placed my hand on the mid section of the seating area. This is all thoroughly explainable Officers!"

While this is highly convenient and something police won't likely believe, it is, none-the-less, a plausible explanation for the scene evidence (witness ident & finger print) that police have to disprove as not possible, didn't happen, or Xen lying. Can't see how they could.

Richard

8/17/2016 02:31:32 am

It is conceivable he was just walking by and decided not to get involved, but from my understanding the front passenger side door of the taxicab was closed and Paul Stine's head was situated in the front passenger floorwell of the vehicle, hence the copious amount of blood in this region. By the time the photographer took the first picture of Stine, hand outstretched of the taxicab, several minutes had passed after he was rolled. If he had been in this position for let's say 5 minutes before the photograph had been taken, then the blood on the road would have been much greater, as shown in the second photograph
[1] http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/8855785_orig.gif
[2] http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/5132122_orig.png

This clearly shows Stine was rolled out to this position. Had Zodiac left Stine like this photograph 1 would look like photograph 2, but it didn't. Meaning Stine was inside the taxicab when officers arrived and medics rolled him out to this position to check for vitals. When Pelissetti arrived the front passenger door was closed, so the question is what would a casual passer by see, and if Xen was there and checked for signs of life then he had to touch the door handle and his prints likely able to be checked out, unless he was wearing gloves on a mild night.

Richard

8/17/2016 02:43:35 am

Alameda was the closest weather station to the crime scene in 1969 and is just 13 miles away. It recorded on October 11th 1969 a High Temp:78.1°F, Low Temp:59°F, Average Temp:66.1°F. It is highly unlikely anybody would need to wear gloves at 59 degrees, unless there was an ulterior motive. So if Xen touched the door or seat, then his fingerprints were likely catalogued and cross checked if he was spotted near the scene, meaning it's highly unlikely he made contact with the crime scene.

Alex Lewis

8/17/2016 03:46:28 am

"t is conceivable he was just walking by and decided not to get involved, but from my understanding the front passenger side door of the taxicab was closed and Paul Stine's head was situated in the front passenger floorwell of the vehicle, hence the copious amount of blood in this region"

I wasn't suggesting that what I had written had actually happened, or even remotely likely to have, I am just using it as an example to ask on what bases or grounds could Law Enforcement pay such little to no attention to an identification made by a witness. Even if that witness turns out to have been mistaken!

I mean people have suggested the Ident may not have been recorded because the agency followed up and discovered that Xenophon had a solid alibi etc etc. They couldn't have, not possible because Armond's report was written and submitted the night of the incident itself, a report in which He clearly lists by Name the Three other teenage witnesses. Yet, no mention of Eight year old witness nor their ident of Xenophon and there has been no passing of time yet to allow for a follow up investigation to know whether Xenophon has a solid alibi or determine why He is not the man they seek and yet, already, they have omitted any mention of this formal witness identification of a said and named individual and resident of Jackson St!

Richard

8/17/2016 04:36:04 am

The police report was countersigned at 6.29 am on the 12th October. Maybe one possibility is the child told his parents the following morning or the parents didn't report it until the following morning, although the date of the FBI file is dated November 12th, a full month later. Possibly SFPD never passed on the info, as they weren't actually forthcoming with most details back then, such as the dispatcher mistake, the Fouke sighting, the trip sheet and possibly the 8 year old identification. The whole case has a delayed feeling to it all, and since the memorandum of Fouke on November 12th coincides, explaining his sighting, the BMA admission with the FBI 8 year old revelation of the same date, November 12th, it seems to me a case of coming clean and becoming half transparent one month too late.

Alex Lewis

8/17/2016 05:11:20 am

In 2007, when Don is asked to explain His failure to recall in His Memo that Suspect turned up steps & toward A residence stated:

"I never wrote it in My report, and I don't think I've ever told anyone."

Filmmaker: "Why didn't you put it in your report?"

D.F: "I didn't think about it in the report because I assumed He didn't live in the Neighborhood. . .A...A upper-middle class N'hood. . .I don't know if He did lie there, or didn't live there, let the Inspectors follow through..."

Filmmaker: "You didn't think a suspect last seen heading toward a house was important?"

D.F "I thought that's what I wrote in the scratch all these years"

It's Painful to watch the interview! Don mentions the suspect turned into the entrance way of a house, following by His unprovoked self admitted statement of "I never wrote it in My report, and I don't think I ever told anyone." 10 - 20 seconds later: "I thought that that's what I had wrote in the scratch all these years. . . " Well no you didn't Don, you just declared without anyone putting the question to you that you know and are aware that "I never wrote it in my report. . "

Why Not Donald? What is there that you are obviously Hiding? And before this allegation is taken as quite an insulting one I counter that actually, it's a compliment because I do not believe nor accept that Donald Fouke would simply Lie about the sequence of events or factual times, people and places if He was not 'advised' to do so, or given an outright order not to mention the WMA and His turning into 3712 stairwell, and instead 'change' this detail to a general statement of having last observed WMA "Heading North On Maple Street" cause see then, then WMA can be going anywhere at all! 3712 Narrows Him down to a very precise and specific time and area.

Richard

6/8/2016 01:05:13 am

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/3218+Jackson+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94118,+USA/@37.7909912,-122.4505497,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x8085873296ee2af9:0x45556f3f2dc4b91d!8m2!3d37.790987!4d-122.448361?hl=en

Richard

6/8/2016 01:08:49 am

I am guessing then, that either this 8 year old was prompted to come forward by their parents or the police thoroughly canvassed a large stretch of Jackson Street, that would have included 3712 Jackson also .

Alex Lewis

8/17/2016 11:03:52 am

"I am guessing then, that either this 8 year old was prompted to come forward by their parents or the police thoroughly canvassed a large stretch of Jackson Street"

Rich you kinda hit the proverbial nail on the head here in how my recent feelings have been making me consider just walking away from everything Zodiac.

If we were discussing this case here now Rich and the year was 1974, 78, 1980 even I could rationalize that lack of willingness on part of unknown or mysterious witnesses coming forward could be explained away due to fear of Zodiac being still out there. I could maybe even see how and why the SFPD would hate any mention of the name 'Zodiac' because He went looking for a fight with that Agency by turning up on their patch and leaving them a corpse before sparing them No Blushes by Rubbing their face right in a pile of shit of their own creation.

"PS: 2 Cops pulled a goof. . ." only worked as such a Knock Out Blow because they themselves had essentially set themselves up just perfectly for Zodiac to come up and smash them down and do it wish such glee and enjoyment because it had not escaped Zodiac's attention that they are covering up their little secret late night Chit-Chat.

They asked for what they got and deserved to have Zodiac rip ther credibility to bits, smash their competence into 1000 pieces and thoroughly deserved to have Zodiac "Rub your Nose in you BooBoo's" because He should never have had the chance to rub their faces in their own booboo's because SFPD coming clean about the incident removes this possibility altogether. Zodiac has no mud to sling at them if they'd be open and honest from the beginning instead of staying hush hush to save face which just backfired and made them loo even worse in the end.

Alex Lewis

8/17/2016 11:27:27 am

I mean, I can only assume that Chief of Inspectors Marty Lee was not told and therefore was not aware that this encounter had happened between Patrol Cops and The man the believe to have been Zodiac. I mean if Chief Lee did know of it and that it was being kept onthe hush hush then He Himself has to be a complete and absolute moronic idiot to decide it would be a good idea to dash off to see Paul Avery and give Him a selection of quotes abd statement's in which He will throw insult after insult at Zodiac and do everything in His power to antagonize and piss Him right off as much as possible.

Lee would have to be an absolute brainless idiot not to preempt and/or anticipate the likely response from Zodiac that is coming back straight at Him.

To use a Boxing Analogy it would be like Two Big Rival Champions of the Heavyweight Division hearing 'Seconds Out, Round One.... " and both metting center ring with One dropping His Guard, pushing His chin out and up in the air and standing still and not seeing the danger in doing this until His opponent had landed a devastating Knock Out Right Hand smack on the button.

Who the fk would accept the defeated KO fighters post fight press conference statement of "Never saw that coming..."

Richard

6/8/2016 02:09:30 am

The name Xenophon is a Greek baby name. In Greek the meaning of the name Xenophon is: Strange voice.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 03:14:03 am

Yeah I know. There's a Famous Greek Translator who translated Plato's works called Xenophon, too.

I was just laughing at myself Rich thinking about my previous rant where I was declaring....

"NO NO NO NO NO I am telling you that the redacted name is going to be Qvale and that is that, don't even try to tell me any different and if it isn't Qvale then I can tell you without question that it will be some name we know, i absolutely assure.... Yes....YES! .TOSCHI! It will be Toschi Richard! Now do not argue Richard because I have decided this my mind there can be no doubt about it and......

Ohh, Xenophon L. Anthony......Never heard of Him." Lol

Dave link

6/8/2016 02:54:29 am

High school photo of him here, but membership required:

http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/Lakeside_School_Numidian_Yearbook/1949/Page_8.html

Dave link

6/8/2016 03:08:41 am

OK I got the high school photo:

http://zodiackillerciphers.com/images/30755_059746-00007.jpg

Richard

6/8/2016 03:09:16 am

Cheers Dave.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 03:16:20 am

Cheers Dave, Nice One.

Richard

6/8/2016 03:08:41 am

Welsh, Dave Oranchak has posted a photograph of him on ZKS.
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/download/file.php?id=5417

Richard

6/8/2016 03:36:55 am

Since the photograph was taken at high school, I have age progressed his face to around 36 years of age, nearer to his age in 1969, of 38.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/713097_orig.gif

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 04:09:07 am

Well, I don't know about yourself Rich but add a tad of grey hair and a pair of Horn Rimmed Specs, and that is Zodiac as He appears in the composite. Absolute uncanny resemblance! Right down the facial structure and widows peak style hair.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 04:16:29 am

Plus, Zodiac declared "In this Cipher is my Identity..."

In the Cpher Text itself the name Tony (Shortened or Abbreviated Name for 'Anthony') is clearly seen.

Richard

6/8/2016 04:37:51 am

Whereabouts.

Richard

6/8/2016 04:39:44 am

Here's the glasses and comparison
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/7370969_orig.gif

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 04:59:32 am

Sorry mate XEN is in the 408, Tony is n the 340. I'll upload below the doc on page above...

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 05:08:18 am

There you go mate uploaded above.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 05:19:44 am

The bone structure and facial shape is so reminiscent of The 1969 Composite from the cheek area it draws inward, He doesn't have your square or fuller face but a slimmer longer sort of bone structure.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 04:42:54 am

You know what, I've never felt so close to exposing the man behind the persona as I do with this guy. This will sound a tad silly and maybe non logical but I have always had this gut instinct that when His name and face are in front of me I;ll know Him and I know it sounds stupid Rich you can attest to this, there's threads on Morf's site I wrote where I have said from day 1 of being involved with researching this that His identity and exposing s going to come be in Presidio Heights event.

I don't know why I have always had this instinctive gut feeling but I just know it and the evidence can be read in previous threads going back years.

I this this is Him Rich. He got too cocky and arrogant in the end and really believed that He was never going to get caught and that He correct about, but as Martin Lee stated: "He's a clumsy Criminal and allowed Himself to be seen by witnesses" and you know what, I think this will be His downfall!

Richard

6/8/2016 04:57:01 am

Halloween Card- Sorry no cipher X

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 05:21:49 am

Yeah I meant to mention noticing the X ''Sorry no Cipher'".....the X is the cryptic clue itself.

Richard

6/8/2016 06:04:56 am

My minds running amok now, seeing strange things;
Halloween Card X-LAV
Xenophon Lusby Anthony Valerie.
Not to be taken seriously mind.

Alex Lewis

7/22/2016 02:22:47 pm

I said long before ever knowing the Name Xenophon that that "Sorry, No Cipher, Sorry, No Cipher" Message written in the form of an X has to be some sort of cryptic clue or message itself because it's a 'Double Cross', the Double Cross is the claim that after an Apology, He claims there is no cryptic clue or Message with this letter when, in fact, this very message is likely the clue itself.

Now I know of Xenophon, who's name was shortened to 'Xen', it could very well be A 'X' on the ENvelope =XEN and that is the Cipher message that He is 'Double Crossing' you with by claiming no cipher clue is present.

Now this is all pure speculation and opinion obviously but it's speculation and opinion I can show several pointers for in order to offer it as at least potentially credible.

1. "Sorry No Cipher, Sorry No Cipher" is not written on the letter itself, but rather, the inside of the letters envelope. Now some may argue this is of no significance but I would counter that, actually, it is because He's never done this before nor since the reception of this one single communication. He could, and I see no reason why He wouldn't do there was a reason not to do so, wrote this on the actual card itself as He wrote much else on it.

2. Zodiac makes a point, for some reason, to point out or make a claim that 'Sorry, No Cipher' which for me has always led me to suspect that there is one in this card and/or letter itself, we just have to find it. Now this apology would be insignificant to point out as anything meaningful if, up to this point, Zodiac had either, A) Sent a cipher with every single letter and/or card he'd ever sent this far and thus justifying an apology for His breaking His own 'Status Quo' or...

B) Every other letter in which He does not include a cipher He writes an apology for not including one.

Case and Point, as simple example: He wrote numerous times post The Stine Murder and Initial Letter where He includes a swatch of shirt, even later enclosing a piece in a later communication. But the letter's in-between, He never once said "Sorry, No Blood Soaked Piece of Victom's Shirt" because He know's He isn't expected, nor has He said, He will always enclose a piece with every letter thereafter.

And so other than the two Example (A & B above) being the case, for which the 'Sorry No Cipher' message could be dismissed as His apology for breaking from 'The Norm' pattern of sending ciphers, then absent of these explanations, the message arriving as it does out of the blue on the inside of an envelope must be there for a reason.

The message is odd and stands out, it stands out because IT IS odd, and in my opinion, it's intended to be.

Alex Lewis

7/22/2016 02:33:29 pm

And then, whats the message on the card itself?

"I feel it in my bones, you ache to know my name, and so I'll clue you in."

The clue is in the Sorry, No Cipher written in the shape of an X on the inside of the ENvelope. X E N, is 'Cipher' He apologizes about. He tells Us on the cards message "I feel it it My bones, You ache to know MY NAME, and so, Ill clue you in...." Many then think they need open the card for the 'Big Reveal' but that is not where the reveal of the name is hidden. It's Hidden in the X message of the ENvelope, that is where We'll find He clues us in!

RICHARD

7/22/2016 02:47:38 pm

Yes that sounds good. The X with envelope. Also X + enophon, all the letters of which can be found in no cipher..

Alex Lewis

7/22/2016 09:24:24 pm

"Yes that sounds good. The X with envelope. Also X + enophon, all the letters of which can be found in no cipher"

Good Point. Just wrote an Article on this Topic specifically.

Richard

6/8/2016 05:10:21 am

The spelling of name Xenophon is somewhat complicated. The name is written with the letter -Ξ in Greek, which doesn’t exist in the Latin alphabet; reading Xenophon in English would probably sound like “ZEEnophon”, although the Greek sound is Ksenophon. However, Xenophon is the most common spelling in the Romanized version of the Greek language and spelling.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 06:44:59 am

Yeah it's pronounced Zen-A-Thon

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 06:51:40 am

And Anthony is Pronounced Anthony *smirking*

Xen must be some sort of Narcissistic Ego-Nut,, He named His Son Marc Anthony. Where for art Thou Cleopatra? .... No, that's wrong isnt it? Lol

Richard

6/8/2016 06:49:30 am

I know you don't think Zodiac necessarily entered the park, but this may give you a rethink. Zodiac was spotted by Jackson and Maple intersection by the police car of Fouke and Zelms. This may have driven the killer into evasive action. Once having given the cops a dose of lies, a quick dash into the park via Maple could easily be achieved by the time Donald Fouke drove all the way up to Arguello and back to the Julius Khan Park region. The exit into the park provides good foliage cover all the way down to the bottom of West Pacific Avenue, as you can see in the Google Maps image below. The killer then re-emerges into Pacific Avenue and across this road either into Walnut Street or Presidio Avenue, as 3218 Jackson Street bisects these two intersections. There are separate properties on Pacific Avenue to the rear of 3218 Jackson, so rear entry to this house would not be possible. So anybody emerging from the park here, has to enter via the Jackson Street entrance. If the 8 year old witness saw this man, whether Zodiac or not, the child had to live either on Cherry Street, Maple Street, Pacific Avenue, Walnut Street, Presidio Avenue or Jackson Street, if he followed the above pattern and entered the park. Somebody living at 3218 Jackson would unlikely walk from Jackson and Cherry, all the way to 3218 Jackson via the road, which is 5 and a half blocks, and a good 10-11 minute journey, when the common sense thing to do is travel this distance under cover. Maybe he never entered the park at Cherry because he was unaware it exited to the rear, or somebody was present in that area. Maple is the first visible thoroughfare. His aim, as he made out, wasn't to sit on the swings to laugh at the cops, but a sensible countermeasure to avoid detection. The Presidio Park conveniently runs right to his exit point, but still affords a good buffer Zone. However that's if we're on the right track at all.

Richard

6/8/2016 06:50:54 am

Here is the map of walking distance from Jackson/Cherry to 3218 Jackson.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/37.789568,-122.4574263/3218+Jackson+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94118,+USA/@37.7901418,-122.4520451,993m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!4m7!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x8085873296ee2af9:0x45556f3f2dc4b91d!2m2!1d-122.448361!2d37.790987?hl=en

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 07:05:49 am

Two problems with this Rich:

1. Zodiac stated He watched them "Go around the corner as I directed them."

Cannot see Arguello Blvd Intersection from Maple on Jackson. Physically impossible.

2. If we somehow accept Z's story of somehow, someway seeing up and over the hill slope to Arguello Street, then if He physically see's Don turn off Jackson & onto Arguello then there is no time to turn down Maple now Cherry because as short as the commute is to the wall entrance, there is no way He drops through & crosses WP Avenue before Don's coming down the WPA.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 02:40:44 pm

No I am not opposed to His possibly having gone into the Presidio Grounds but I can't accept that it was through Choice if He did, and my issue has always been with His not planning on ever going there and especially, above all else, planning to run into the park believing that He can stoop behind a bush and observe the several hour search being conducted by a Sea of cops.

There's just no way He's going to plan to do that Rich cause He'd be better off out in sight on Jackson because you do't look totally suspicious walking down a sidewalk. Try explaining why you've submerged yourself in a Bush in the dark presidio.

"Officer, I can explain...."

Fouke would likely reply "Really? Hang on, anyone got few chairs for a few colleagues and a camera?"

Richard

6/8/2016 07:38:59 am

He doesn't have to see the cops, he only said "the cops peeled rubber + went around the corner as I directed them.." He may have said the guy waving the gun ran in that general direction towards Arguello, the cops then headed the way he suggested, but it doesn't necessarily mean his words be taken literally, on they went in the direction he directed them. Anyway putting that aside, if we take the Bus Bomb letter wording, maybe when he encountered Fouke, he watched them head up Jackson in that general direction and as you alluded, it was too risky to head to the park via Maple, so entered via Spruce Street. He said after all in the Bus Bomb Letter that " I disappeared into the park a block + a half away never to be seen again." He then travels via the park to the wooded area near his residence, at the base of West Pacific Avenue. I have drawn a diagram below, where he not only is concealed in dense foliage, but it matches his wording in the Bus Bomb letter exactly. In this position he is approximately 150 feet from Presidio Boulevard ;
"there was only 2 groups of parking about 10 min apart, then the motor cicles went by about 150 ft away." Presidio Boulevard is not only 150 feet from this dense overgrowth, but Presidio Boulevard travels from south tonorth before turning north west, Zodiac stated " there was only 2 groups of parking about 10 min apart then the motor cicles went by about 150 ft away going from south to north west." Here is a diagram where Zodiac could have been observing from, allowing a quick exit from the park if need be.

http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/9900223_orig.gif

Zodiac also stated "The dogs never came with in 2 blocks of me + they were to the west." From here the dogs would unlikely have reached this area so soon after the murder, they would have been to the west and certainly not within 2 blocks. Also had he observed motorcycles on Presidio Boulevard, he would also see the lights, firetrucks and sirens on Arguello Boulevard "there was only 2 groups of parking about 10 min apart." Ok it's not 10 mins, more like 3-4 minutes from one side of the park to the other by car, but certainly 10 minutes walking, which is what he was doing after all.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/37.789568,-122.4574263/3218+Jackson+St,+San+Francisco,+CA+94118,+USA/@37.7909992,-122.448991,844m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m8!4m7!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x8085873296ee2af9:0x45556f3f2dc4b91d!2m2!1d-122.448361!2d37.790987?hl=en

Richard

6/8/2016 07:46:12 am

From these bushes and trees, he has a good view of West Pacific Avenue and Presidio Boulevard just 150 feet away, with multiple exit points.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7922386,-122.4485646,3a,75y,91.54h,89.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sbQ7o5nFWvrRhmxsd4e0IHw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Richard

6/8/2016 09:33:24 am

I posted this on Zodiackiller.com forum and it has been removed inside of 2 hours, clearly I am not welcome there anymore. Oh well.

Richard

6/8/2016 10:50:06 am

I asked to be removed from the forum and my request was kindly obliged. Freedom of Speech burns brightly in the Zodiac community.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 01:58:20 pm

Told you, It's the Online North Korea run by Kim-Jung-Morf. You will post when they say, you may say what they allow and Mod's at the ready to respond with red light and siren.

It's His ego mate, the find and Document release isn't His own and even worse it's Me that it's coming from! He's probably paranoid believing You are me using an assumed name.

Fk Him and His little Tyrannical BS. He doesn't even know that a lot of His site's members emailed me to state they sided with me and My Point.

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 02:10:49 pm

Ohh Sorry, you that other idiots site that is ran by, ohhhhh, what's His name now......Ohhh you know, the one that was arrested before for the offence of Stalking.....

Ahhhh! VOID! I believe it claims it's first name is Too-Mass or something.

Been on a documentary mind so careful Richard! 'ZODIAC EXPERT' it, sorry I mean 'He' was captioned.

Fuc*ing Expert in the Art of how to be a complete idiot!

Alex Lewis

9/18/2016 01:13:38 pm

The last time I was there at the 'Website Forum....Do excuse me swatting this site banner away with A 'HAH!' calling itself a discussion forum. Well, I suppose it is that, but the discussion must be and can only be, what Kim Jung and His Shitty Police Pig Mod's say you May say.
I mean I recall the time I responded to a personally directed outright insult to Me, when I was informed "Welsh: Nothing you ever say has ever been of interest to Me and you've never said anything of use."

As you can imagine Richard I had the Negotiator and half of Gwent Police Force trying to talk Me out of Jumping off the Newport Transporter Bridge, I mean now I know what it is to cry for 3 weeks straight. (TheCorroner, TheForeigner or whatever it labels itself to comment as obviously does not know Me at all because the potential for such comments to have any impact on Myself whatsoever.....0.00%.)

But anyway when I replied with a less than flattering statement. . .May the Lord have Mercy for the Wrath of Morf! He went nuts....

'How dare you speak to Her like that!! Do you know how long she's been involved with this case?'
My reply: No not really Mike but you're about t Enlighten Me Mike no doubt & I'd like to say, before you do, that I do not Give a fcku!"

Chat restriction Imediately with email to folllow announcing why I had been restricted...."3 Hour Chat R'tion for being extremely Obnoxious."

You See the problem is, a clash is inevitable when Michael Morfod obviously want's Me to acknowledge a Zodiac Community Hierarchy of persons 'Status' and not only will I outright refuse, but I'll do so by telling Him what He can do with that concept! "How dare you speak to Her like that, do you know who that is and how emphatically important She is?"

My response just seem's to get up noses more when I reply "Fuck You and your mentality that would impress The Leader of North Korea who's Citizens live in a paradise, one where Tyranny and the Rule of Dictatorship means all you get to do in N. Korea all day, every day, is Give thanks to the dear leader, praise the Dear Leader, offer worship at the Feet of the Dear Leader.

And, in fact and this is an absolute fact, when Kim's Father, also called 'The Supreme Leader' died, the now ruling 'Dear Leader' Son had the entire Country come out on the streets and mourn His passing and the message came down from Dear Leader that the cameras are recording their distress and grief and anyone who isn't deemed to be crying enough and acting like they they've never felt such pain and loss will be taken and shot dead, a literal threat that can and does happen on Kim Jungy Jung's Word.

Hierarchy's Richard are designed and implemented by those that have little self esteem and feel they need to prove they be more important than another by installing themselves above others on the Pyramid Of Backward Bullshit in order that they may look down upon then below them.

My Moral's see such a concept as utterly deplorable and, thankfully, My own Mentality, Personality & General Intellectual Functioning is absolutely find and happy to be no better nor worse than another, but a simple and accepted Co-Equal.
Sit back and observe the end game mate because as with all Dictatorships, of they are not forcefully overthrown, the Dictatorship destroys itself imploding from the Inside out.

Sorry but I loath the mentality of those who wish to subscribe to such non democratic way of thinking and ummm, with plenty of offence intended: Fcuk that mentality and those who subscribe to it!

The last time I went to that site an APB went out for White Male with suspiciously Welsh Accent.....Mike was filmed as it was made known I was approaching the website front gate. . .

https://youtu.be/mgm6Tjo5h88?t=18s

Richard

9/18/2016 02:07:28 pm

Fortunately for you Alex you are in South Korea here and the only time I will extend the rod of iron is if you keep using foul language on my site, you have been warned. The FBI is on notice and are congregating on the Welsh border as we speak. I am only kidding of course. I enjoy a cordial relationship with all members of the forum, but have decided to call it a day posting there for now at least. I still have much interest in the four main crimes, along with Donna Lass, Kathleen Johns and Cheri Jo Bates. These to me go to the heart of the investigation, coupled with the letters. The topics on the forum barely touch these crimes any more, but there is still much to discover as far as I am concerned, and we are still finding.
The Lake Herman Road sketch not matching the photographs is a case in point. When this is brought up, it is usually summarily dismissed, by many people who have long held myths, in particular people who have theories published in books. If you have written a book and somebody points out their analysis is wrong in black and white, using photographic evidence, they have too much to lose, so continue to ignore the truth and keep maintaining the myth.
Here is the truth; but if they cannot even believe a photograph and still believe either the Rambler is facing east and Betty Lou's feet are facing west, then I'm sorry, the photograph disproves this. But some people still refuse to believe their own eyes, in favour of the 47 year old myth. I give up.

Richard

9/18/2016 02:08:08 pm

And here is the proof;
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/5bx_orig.png

Alex Lewis

9/18/2016 03:48:48 pm

This is actually a frightfully accurate speech or statement that I received for speaking badly of the Gracious imperial forces as they put down any rebellion by some uppity slave!

https://youtu.be/mgm6Tjo5h88?t=3m15s

Alex Lewis

9/22/2016 01:38:35 pm

"Here is the truth; but if they cannot even believe a photograph and still believe either the Rambler is facing east and Betty Lou's feet are facing west, then I'm sorry, the photograph disproves this. But some people still refuse to believe their own eyes, in favour of the 47 year old myth. I give up."

Comes back to that Law Maxim I have at the foot or this article Rich and that is:

" Proofs are to be weighed not numbered; that is, the more worthy or credible are to be believed. It does not matter how many people believe a lie, it's still a lie"

Emphasis being put on the final sentence. It does not matter how many people believe a lie, It's still a lie and no amount of believing, wishful thinking or outright hoping will ever, because it can never, change that.

Alex Lewis

1/21/2018 02:19:51 am

See now you are speaking y language Rich when you ask with exasperation: "What can you do when people can be shown a photograph to physically back up what you are saying and is irrefutable, unarguable and is there in black & white and photo cannot tell a lie and yet, some individuals won't acknowledge it, refuse to accept what you put right in front of their face....This did astonish me years ago but I've seen this happen over and over in regard to this case and, look, if you see Robert Graysmith doing this in my kind anyway, it's not at all condoned or accepted as ink but I can understand why He would do it because as you say Rich, too much is roding on it and he literally has avsolutelh everything to lose from sales of published books to his very reputation.

When I ask Voigt about Loomis and his statements & producing of evidence that GAIKowski was in Albany at the close of 1968 and Tom replies by stating, and if I could and was asked to I wouldn't think twice about taking a polygraph to prove I'm telling the exact truth (I add that bit because Tom, when I fqlled him out to repeat what he had told me in his chat room now on a public message forum responded by senting he said what I know without a fonbt he did say.

"Chappie, aLoomis made the comments and statements that Richard was out of State Yes but after filming rapped and show was filmed and we were talking off camera Loomis realised he had made a mistake in dates of his lettes...," the. Voigt sahd these very words to me.... "Bob recanted his statements he made on the shod to me after the filming of the.episode as he realized he'd made a mistake."

That's one example of someone who isn't misjnformed, he is not making a genuine inn cent mistake in remembering yes not even exaggerating a small admitting or recantation by Robsrt Loomis, what he is doing lying and lying knowingly, deeliberately and wilfully and it angered me before and then I realised that that very self deluded and wilful ignoring of that which exonerates GAIKowski because Tom has an inability and refusal to acknowledge ever the possibility he could be incorrect!

It just speaks to an absolute Insecurity and fear of confirmation by some means or method of their own imperfection which they will outright challenge, deny and ignore absolute physical evidence and proof of fact if that unarguable fact seems to challenge rheir own self delusional belief of infallibility and utter perfection.

Rich, these people can delude themselves into believing a lie or false thing as true so I don't bother nor would I advise anyone to try to poi tout and show these types why they are wrong because these people cannot ba wrong it is not a remote possibility! I look at it like this Rich, it's mot a easy task for you to lie to me and have me buy that lie but, it's an absolute differsnt league when you can lie to yourself and convince your own self that a lie you just have to yourself is now the truth and u believe it.

Just keep that Latin Law Maxim in you approaching these types Rich, that declares:

"In ambiguitity, that which is worthy and credible are to be believed. IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MANG PEOPLE BELIEVE A LIE, IR IS STILL A LIE!"

Alexander & the "Typo writer"

1/21/2018 02:47:51 am

Richard, Mr Grinell, Sir...

Look at that postification that I have publisherated below which not accetable as it has A deplorable and pathetic amontbof misspellerizations Dickey.

Mr G, I implore you Sie, please can you hive myself a chance to appear less lild I come here as a contributing forum persona age who cannot be properly underatood cause he continualizes to be prwwwsterinzing as if it or He be intellectually and mentally....5 to 7 years of Age:

Deplorable at best,

Disgracefully yours: Welsh Dyslec Chump, CEO: Typoows Awr Us, Gwinel no Edit Opshun!

In short Rich, please can you get Weebly to understand the fomment section need of "-Edit" button! 😔

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 12:56:53 pm

Just uploaded better quality version.

Sorry haven't replied, been out but will reply asap...

Richard

6/8/2016 01:59:18 pm

Sharpened it even more.

Richard

6/8/2016 02:03:33 pm

Here is a further clearer image
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/4613854_orig.jpg

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 02:51:46 pm

Gotta Nip out a minute but when I get back I'll upload Page One so Both Pages are available. Page.1 being the Non-Redacted version of Robert Hale West....

Richard

6/8/2016 03:40:23 pm

https://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Francisco/3218-Jackson-St-94118/home/1969032

Richard

6/8/2016 03:51:23 pm

Census
http://www.familytreenow.com/search/census/results?first=xenophon&last=anthony&city=San%20Francisco&state=CA&rid=0s0&smck=AL8zqnFNXYX9OEFJEfqNyQ

Census image document
http://www.familytreenow.com/search/census/results/image/lr4sn2rul800

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 04:54:10 pm

Another Thought: 'My Name Is. . . . ' Cipher. Three Eights have always been looked at as either the Star Sign Symbol or 3 x 8 = 24 AKA birth year thereof...

Maybe it is 24, but not 1924, but the 24th letter of the English Alphabet: X

AENK M T NAM Plus the Newly acquired X = N A M E X E N (K unused)

Alex Lewis

6/8/2016 04:58:51 pm

Actually There's an A unused also...

NAME XEN A (As in Anthony) or maybe just XEN A NAME

Richard

6/9/2016 06:35:14 am

It is very easy to become convinced that a suspect you have long wanted to be identified, is actually the Zodiac Killer. But what have we really, a man who may likely have been returning home from a hard day's work, or the theatre, or the local bar. His only misfortune is he is travelling home or possibly out for the evening, that just happened to coincide with Zodiac's continued murderous rampage. Being spotted by an 8 year old is not a crime, countless suspects, upwards of 2,300 were investigated and so far all have been shelved. This man is just another, he doesn't look any more or less like the sketch than any other mainline suspect, the police obviously warranted no further action and was likely quickly eliminated. What did the kid see, I highly doubt it was blood, as we both concur the Zodiac would have had very little on him, contrary to the notion in folklore and film, that he was covered in it. Therefore all the 8 year old could have seen was a man they recognized around the 10 pm time region, walking to or from his house. As you know Welsh the finding of names in the ciphers, either diagonally, horizontally or vertically is not difficult, there are thousands, even Earl Van Best was found, that doesn't mean that's enough for the death penalty. Other than the 'suspect' being in the vicinity, we have absolutely zip, nada, nothing. It was great work to persevere and obtain this mans name, and it opens up fresh talking points and dialogue in an ever increasing stale investigation, bereft of fresh insights and new ideas, but above all it must be remembered this man had a loving family, and although a great find, this man is effectively guilty of nothing, despite our excitement at opening another line of investigation. Finding information on this person is fine, but drawing exaggerated conclusions must be guarded against.

Alex Lewis

6/9/2016 09:35:44 am

Wording of the statement Rich is: "Witness IN MURDER OF TAXI DRIVER..."

This suggests the witness saw the Offender at the scene. If He/She saw Zodiac at the cab then Identified someone that changes everything.

The SFPD wouldn't word the document like that if it was a matter of this witness just happening to see Xen as He walks down Jackson passed His/Her residence. There is direct implication that Anthony is possibly the subject responsible according to the testimony of this witness.

You can't refer to someone in a document as a 'Witness' if they didn't see anything of interest. Think of it this way.....

Let's say Xen was observed passing witnesses house on Jackson somewhere and comes forward to notify authorities of His sighting. Do you think that, A: SFPD will refer to Him/Her as witness in murder of cab driver? And B, having spotted Anthony a block and a half away from the scene in an area He resides that the witness would then tell SFPD who He saw and SFPD turn around and refer to Xen as 'Possible subject in this matter' or the man responsible for killing Stine if the only thing He did was walk past someones House on Jackson? No chance!

Richard

6/9/2016 10:27:13 am

Fair point Welsh. That means the witness was likely living on Washington Street, nearby. If you could access occupants in the directory from this general location, then cross check in the ancestry records we have already used for 8 year old children, then bingo you have a chance. It's getting the occupants of these houses. Wonder if Dave can help.

Alex Lewis

6/11/2016 10:08:20 am

It's not just the implication from the wording, but how can the witness have "Identified Anthony as possible subject in this matter" if He/She had never seen the offender at the cab? The wording suggests the witness simply has to have seen the offender at the cab in order to Identify Him as possibly responsible.

Richard

6/9/2016 12:24:54 pm

Dave has posted some useful links on the forum

1966: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisc ... tory/1966/
1967: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisc ... tory/1967/
1968: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisc ... tory/1968/
1969: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisc ... tory/1969/
1971: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisc ... tory/1971/
1972: http://www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisc ... tory/1972/

3898 washington site:www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisco_directory/1969/

Alexander Henry von Hafften is listed at the house overlooking the Stine crime scene. His daughter Sebelle is also listed at the same address.

http://www.sfgenealogy.com/san_francisc ... 8_1711.pdf

Alexander von Hafften's obituary lists his four children (including Sebelle):

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Alex ... 005670.php

Were any of them eight years old in October, 1969?

http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=3080&start=10

Richard

6/9/2016 12:27:37 pm

You'll have to visit the page to make the links work

Richard

6/9/2016 01:48:33 pm

Thanks to some great work by Dave Oranchak, there is some real progress on the identity of this 8 year old. The house directly overlooking the crime scene was 3898 Washington Street, this is the closest house. Alexander Henry von Hafften was listed as an occupant in 1969. He had four children, one called Sebelle Harden von Haffton. Her obituary states; Sebelle Harden von Haffton, 74, great-grandniece of Leland Stanford, who founded of Stanford University, died Mar. 12 of cancer. Born in San Francisco, she received her early education from the Dominicans at Mt. St. Mary's Academy in Newburgh, N.Y. She graduated from Stanford University in 1944 with a bachelor's degree in psychology. During World War II, she began volunteering for the Red Cross Motor Corps in Palo Alto. She served on various organizations' boards and committees, including the Stanford Alumni Association and the Fine Arts Auxillary. She loved the opera and was an avid supporter of the San Francisco Opera. She is survived by her husband, Alexander H. von Hafften of San Francisco; two daughters, Katharine "Kitsi" Loveland of Walnut Creek and Sebelle "Cindy" Pool of Riverside. two sons, Dr. Alexander von Hafften Jr. and Robert Lathrop von Hafften, both of Anchorage, Alaska.
Dave found Robert Van Haften in class of 80 here http://www.classmates.com/people/Robert-von-Hafften/8742408581
As Dave stated "If he graduated at age 18, that puts year of birth at around 1980 minus 18 = 1962, which makes him 7 or 8 when Stine was killed."
His Facebook page is here https://www.facebook.com/robert.vonhafften/about

He is found here - Robert Lathrop von Hafften aged 54. Assuming his birthday is later in year, he was still 54 in 2015.
2015-54 = 1961. Therefore 8 in 1969 is very likely.
Robert Vonhafften, age ~54 Po Box 231602, Anchorage, AK 99523

http://s.radaris.com/~Robert-Vonhafften/916435587

This man was likely 8 years of age, living in the house directly facing Paul Stine's taxicab on October 11th 1969. The question is- is it the right 8 year old.

Richard

6/9/2016 01:59:13 pm

Prior residences show Washington St, San Francisco, Incline Village NV, Zephyr Cove, Anchorage AK now.
http://www.whitepages.com/name/Robert-L-Vonhafften/Anchorage-AK/1kvtp2m

Richard

6/9/2016 02:25:07 pm

3898 Washington St, last sold in 1999. If the kid did live here, his bedroom overlooking the street, it is certainly close enough to recognize somebody you knew. The gunshot, doors slamming or taxicab pulling up may have awoken him to the commotion. At 10.00 pm at night the observer would have to be very close to the scene to recognize somebody with confidence. If however it wasn't this address, it had to be very close. The three teenagers across the road were certainly drawn to the window by something, maybe the same happened here.

Richard

6/9/2016 02:31:04 pm

Robert Robert Lathrop von Hafften was born on August 4th 1961, making him 8 years of age on October 11th 1969.

Richard

6/9/2016 02:32:30 pm

Here is the link
http://www.familytreenow.com/search/birth/results?first=Robert&last=Vonhafften&rid=0s0&smck=4aDIZEzv_kWID68mBibzeg

Greg H.

6/9/2016 09:40:59 pm

Haha, Richard, Don't know if you noticed, but Robert L Vonhafften mother's maiden name is "Harden"..Maybe there is something behind Don Harden rumors after all!

Richard

6/9/2016 02:51:35 pm

Welsh, don't contact the Facebook page yet, I need to do a little more digging.

Adam Gray

6/9/2016 05:08:33 pm

Here he is
https://www.facebook.com/robert.vonhafften

Mike

6/11/2016 07:40:52 pm

My final thoughts on Mr. Anthony: People are looking at this as a "new lead." To us it is but not to SFPD, which knew his name in real time. I am certain this man was checked out in 1969 because, unlike the "dog walker" that Pelissetti spoke to that night, he was specifically named by an eyewitness to the Stine murder, regardless of the age of that witness.

For all we know, Mr. Anthony may have proven in 1969 that he was at a party on the other side of town that night and was seen by fifty people. Maybe the lead was immediately put to bed. Maybe not. But that is for all of you to research.

I've asked my SFPD contact if he has ever heard of this guy. I am sure he will reply one way or another.

Alex Lewis

6/12/2016 02:39:39 am

"I've asked my SFPD contact if he has ever heard of this guy. I am sure he will reply one way or another."

Mike can you let me know His response please? I've asked, or attempted to, ask Vince Repetto if He knew of Xenophon Anthony being ID'd, but He hasn't replied and I contacted Him several days ago

Alex Lewis

6/17/2016 04:26:40 pm

Mike I really have to take issue with your comment/claim that Kjell, unlike Xenophon, has never been investigated. He called you a SOB and yet agreed, did He not, to submit and consent for his prints and DNA to be submitted be tested?

"Moreover, I suspect there’s still some fallout remaining from Rodelli’s claims about Kjell Qvale. Only Napa pursued his 30 page thesis to the point of DNA. Qvale called Rodelli a son of a bitch yet yielded to the test. Of course he was exonerated. There was little reason to suspect him."

This is the claim found here: https://questersite.wordpress.com/2015/10/12/everybody-whispers-in-napa/

Alex Lewis

6/11/2016 10:14:21 am

As for the Eight year old and who they were, I am not going to try and unmask them because if they felt confident in coming forward, I'm sure they would do themselves. If you force this witness to admit "It was you, wasn't it?" you may be putting that person in a very uncomfortable situation.

Richard

6/11/2016 11:00:29 am

But this is a very strong coincidence, Robert 8 years at 3898 with view of taxicab.

Mike

6/11/2016 06:00:21 pm

I found the doc and Anthony does fit. It has just the right number of letters. My mistake from memory!

Mike

6/11/2016 05:47:14 pm

WC--you and I discussed this doc a couple of years ago. If this is the name in the redacted FBI doc that someone obtained a while back, it seems like the name has too many letters to have fit into that small box. I'd have to dig out the doc but that is my recollection, that the space allocated for the name indicated that it was only like 6 or so letters.

Alex Lewis

6/11/2016 09:54:32 pm

Mike, are you suggesting I have made this up and edited the document to appear as if it's been released by the DOJ? I can show you the official pages that this release came with stating '2 Pages are being released' and the date. I can also give you the FOIA No. and you can enter it at the FBI Site and check status. I'll add extra photos above.

Alex Lewis

6/11/2016 10:24:22 pm

Extra Pages added above. Rich, drag the page one up to meet the writing will you please, fed up of trying and it won't work!

Alex Lewis

6/12/2016 02:33:46 am

"I found the doc and Anthony does fit. It has just the right number of letters. My mistake from memory!"

Thanks for clarifying Mike. I was going to say "Your free to file your own FOIA to double check the validity" lol.

It states Anthony was a avid sport and Ski enthusiast. This is just speculation I know but maybe Pelissetti stopped and spoke to Anthony who simply claimed to be Kjell and gave false details. I would speculate Anthony knew of, if not knew directly, Qvale. Qvale claims to be out of State in Oct of 69, maybe Anthony knew this?

Just pure speculation I know.

Richard

6/12/2016 02:49:00 am

Fixed the image for you Welsh, it's a bit less blurred now.

Richard

6/12/2016 02:34:18 am

Hello Mr Welsh fixed the page. There is a strong likelihood that if the 8 year old child observed a man he knew, near the crime scene, as you stated he was a 'witness in the murder of Paul Stine', then he had to be fairly close, after all it was dark, with intermittent streetlighting. There may be a strong possibility he resided at 3898 Washington, based on the above findings, although not conclusive, but if the 8 year old recognized Xenophon Anthony and reported this to his parents, it's likely they had previously interacted, either directly or through their children. So my question is; if the 8 year old knew Xen, then Xen would likely know the 8 year old or his family, so why kill a taxicab driver directly outside a house where you know you may be recognized. Even if the murder had taken place one block earlier at Washington and Maple, the subject still took time to tear a piece of Paul Stine's shirt knowing full well he was taking an enormous risk in being identified. One can only assume the kid knew him, but he didn't know the kid personally. If this guy was into retail maybe he would have been quite well known as a businessman to many, like the shopkeeper down the road who is known to all the kids, but the shopkeeper pays little attention to all the children, and if he does know them on sight, he doesn't know where they live. That brings me onto my next question regarding this man's employment. Knowing this, may go a long way to understanding his skills, access to materials and his travel routes to and from work, and more crucially whether his working hours are compatible with crimes such as carried out by Zodiac. There are so many unanswered questions to fully commit with any conviction as it stands. What is your take on everything that has been unearthed recently and where do you stand at this moment in time.

Alex Lewis

6/12/2016 03:03:32 am

Hey Rich, I have a sneaky suspicion that the Eight year old may not have known Anthony from the area. I think, and this is just my opinion with no supporting evidence, that the ID happened along these lines....

On the night itself, Armond Pelissetti catches up with the WMA that Don tells Him He's just passed. This man is Anthony. Armond either holds Anthony there and gets a unit to pick the witness up and drive by them and the Eight year old confirms "That's Him" pointing to Anthony or, Anthony is placed in a patrol car and driven back to the scene and the witness is asked to view the man in the cop car and confirms that "Yes, that is the man who just left the cab."

I've always believed that Z's threat to wipe out a school bus was a masked threat to the school child He knew had ID'd Him. Zodiac seems to confirm His threat was not literal by saying "If you cops think I would take on a school bus the way I stated I would, you deserve to have holes in your heads."

Now if Anthony is Zodiac, He knows the cops are responding and so He likely stashed the Weapon and shirt swatches in a bush, garden, wherever. So when people suggest subsequent investigation must have taken place and ruled Anthony out, that's not a given.
Your not going to convict Anthony based on One eye witness testimony. He's got rid of the gun, so has no weapon. Armond states the guy He spoke with had no blood on Him with Z wouldn't if sat in rear seat when He fires the shot. "Somewhat older than the description I had..." and Anthony was just that.

If the Eight year old ID's Anthony and there is no other evidence, then they can go no further with Him as a suspect. However, Zodiac was so shaken by what Happened in PH that it halted His spree. When a third hand witness was given the account of Rebecca and Her brother as witnesses, they stated Rebecca's brother tried explaining to Armond the suspect was still in View on Cherry, and by the time Armond 'Got it' He was gone. They state Armond then took off after this suspect and end by declaring "What happened next, that's for another time and day...." What is that hinting at?

Alex Lewis

6/12/2016 03:14:01 am

And Mike can confirm this part....

Apparently, Armond when talking to Butterfield on the phone stated that when He came across the WMA (Whom did not have a dog He is alleged to have admitted) He said "He kept this guy around for a while" and I remember you saying Mike that you found this odd, asking why would Armond Keep this man around for a while? Well, if He's waiting for a cruizer to come around with a witness from the scene to see if this man is the man who just left the cab.....That'll explain it!

Alex Lewis

6/12/2016 03:25:05 am

Alternatively....

I've always said it doesn't make sense that Fouke would stop and speak to someone that night not a block away from a Homicide, and not get the mans details. Maybe Don stops and get's Anthony's details, establishes that Yes, this Gentleman has cause to be in the area as He resides down the street. (As Don stated, He assumed Zodiac didn't live in the area, said in a way that implied that He knew that the Man He spoke with in fact did live in the area and this is what He used to dismiss Him as the suspect) Anthony tells Don "Yes, I just saw a man run by with a gun...." and Don Peels Rubber. Later, as it dawns on Don that Anthony could likely be the man responsible, He hears of the Eight year old who saw the suspect at the scene and has a photo of Anthony shown to the witness who, in turn, nods and says "Yes, that's Him."

Richard

6/12/2016 04:59:34 am

There are so many things that don't add up, especially questioning people in the area minutes after the murder and [a] not taking details or [b] not apprehending them for questioning, but I did have a chuckle thinking the dog may actually be a scapegoat or patsy, used in part as an alibi or to cement the innocence of the man stopped, to excuse the police's actions. After all the Zodiac Killer certainly wasn't walking a dog around the taxicab as he was wiping away fingerprints. Maybe Welsh you have a new story "One man and his dog" or "Jackson Street dog scapegoat in murder."

Alex Lewis

6/13/2016 01:10:15 pm

Stop it Rich, your making me giggle now, too. I can envisage myself on the phone to Pelissetti: "I put it to you, Sir, that the dog on the Grassy Knoll of the Presidio, is nothing more than a Patsy! Hello? Armond, are you there?" Lol.

Alex Lewis

6/13/2016 01:19:22 pm

" After all the Zodiac Killer certainly wasn't walking a dog around the taxicab as he was wiping away fingerprints. "

:-) Well we don't know that for sure Richard, as I said previous, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Maybe the witnesses just did not think it relevant enough to mention. I mean can we really be sure that Zodiac wasn't circling the cab whilst barking (if you'll excuse the pun) orders to 'SIT!' while He goes about wiping away the prints? Can we offer proof that He wasn't concealed in a bush within the Presidio preying to God that 'Rex' doesn't offer up a 'WOOF' and give away His position? Brave man to do so, lol.

Alex Lewis

6/17/2016 07:50:42 am

Here is your actual statement Mike: "As with any other seemingly viable suspect who threatens my own research into a "different" PH resident, who lived much closer to the action than did Mr. Anthony and who was never investigated despite being spoken to by an SFPD officer that night, I am going to poke around into Mr. Anthony's background to see what I can dig up. "

I mean whilst I admire your honesty Mike, I have to say that I am quite shocked and stunned by that statement you make. Is that truly how you look at this? A threat to your own research and suspect as if this is a personal thing? I really am lost for words to be honest Mike.

Mike

6/14/2016 11:42:24 am

Hi-

I think it is safe to say that Pelissetti knows the difference between the names "Qvale" and "Anthony." Even "Kjell" and "Xenophon." As for Anthony stating he was Qvale while standing in KQ's front yard with a dog on a leash, you have a lot of work to do to prove that one. (AP changed his story in 2011 to say he saw KQ in his front yard. Whether this was in addition to seeing him on Maple or this was the only sighting, AP is not the most cooperative of people to ask clarifying questions, lol. Very arrogant and condescending.)

As another thought, if AP had spoken to this man, I think the SFPD report would not mention that the source of the lead was the 8 year-old. Just IMHO.

Mike

Alex Lewis

6/16/2016 03:30:38 pm

Mike I said that Anthony simply claiming to be Kjell was pure speculation on my part. I notice you also say over on Morf's site " This is not a doc that is like an "emergency rush" on just Mr. Anthony, as if he were "the" hot suspect, and in fact Anthony's is the final name in the request."

That simply is not true. Page 1, the first word is 'URGENT.'

You also state: " I am certain this man was checked out in 1969 because, unlike the "dog walker" that Pelissetti spoke to that night, he was specifically named by an eyewitness to the Stine murder, regardless of the age of that witness."

See Mike it just seems to me that your in danger of just becoming like Voigt, trying to shoot down any claim that is at odds with your own theory as if your on a personal crusade. I mean take the above sentence, you say your certain He's been checked out in 1969 because He's named in a document. You can't be certain of that without proof that an investigation was conducted. Then you immediately switch it to 'Unlike the dog walker' aka your suspect.

Mike it seems to me that this is just ego. I don't mean that to cause offence but it seems that for you now, it is all about proving your suspect is Zodiac by any means and trying to shoot down any other theory. That's what many seem to do when they develop a pet suspect. If you notice on Morf's site, every other member that comments does so with an open mind, then you openly state that as with any alternate theory that threatens your own, you will try and discredit it.

Mike the true identity of the Zodiac will not and does not depend on your theory or whether you want Zodiac to be Qvale, that will make no difference to the truth of His Identity because from 1969 up to the present day, the Identity of the true Zodiac has and will continue to be the same and it does not matter how much people want Zodiac to be Suspect A, B or C, the truth in terms of His identity Mike doesn't know of you and your theory and it will make no difference.

Now please don't think this is a personal attack Mike because I would and do say the same about any theory or suspect I may favor. Blinkered vision Mike with a closed mind to investigate will get you nowhere fast and your an intelligent man and don't need me to tell you that.

Alex Lewis

6/16/2016 03:50:02 pm

And I am not claiming this to be my new theory or suspect, I simply filed an FOIA for the release of a named suspect by a witness and got what I asked for and am simply putting it out there for others to research and come to their own conclusions. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Yes, I may make the statement that this suspect has to be the one that jumps to the top of the pile and if you can't or won't see the logic in why I say that then I can't really say anything more other than to reiterate what that reason and logic is....

Here we have a witness in murder of taxi driver that the SFPD say identified Xenophon Anthony as possible subject in this matter. Now in order for this witness to be able to say that they believe Xen is the person responsible they simply must have seen the offender at the cab as the wording would suggest. If they had not, then I'm quite sure that the SFPD would not state that Xen is the possibly the person responsible as per a witness Identification of Him.

If you can show Me Mike another example or instance in this Zodiac case where it is stated that a Witness at one of the murder scenes saw, and subsequently ID's a suspect by Name, then I will be happy to hear of it but as far as I know, this is the one and only instance it happened and that is why I wanted this mans name released to us.

If I wanted to Mike, I could have openly stated that 'Unlike the dog walker who has never officially been named nor identified (Because that is the truth officially), this man Xenophon was identified by a witness on scene" but I didn't do that Mike because I have no interest in trying to discredit other people and suspects. I have told you previously, I agree with you on many points and myself have not and do not discount Kjell as a POI in the Stine murder. I can do that Mike because I have no personal agenda.

Richard

6/17/2016 03:07:09 am

The FBI has received your Freedom of Information Act/Privacy (FOIPA) request and it will be forwarded to Initial Processing for review. Your request will be processed under the provisions of FOIPA and a response will be mailed to you at a later date.
Requests for fee waivers and expedited processing will be addressed once your request has been assigned an FOIPA request number. You will receive written notification of the FBI’s decision.
Information regarding the Freedom of Information Act/Privacy is available at http://www.fbi.gov/, http://www.fbi.gov/foia/ or http://www.justice.gov/oip. If you require additional assistance please contact us at foipaquestions@ic.fbi.gov.
Thank you,
David P. Sobonya
Public Information Officer/GIS
Record/Information Dissemination Section (RIDS)
FBI-Records Management Division
170 Marcel Drive, Winchester, VA 22602-4843
Ofc: (540) 868-4593
Direct: (540) 868-4286
Fax: (540) 868-4391/4997
From: Richard Grinell [mailto:grinsnort@googlemail.com]
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2016 2:26 PM
To: FOIPARequest <FOIPARequest@ic.fbi.gov>
Subject: Zodiac 2 pdf

I have submitted a further request to release the other names in the Robert Hale West document.

Alex Lewis

6/17/2016 04:12:41 am

Nice one Rich. I would offer advice to notify them in the request that your aware that the onus is on the requesting party to supply proof that the person/persons are deceased when requesting the info release, however, due to the nature of your request, your asking for the name release of said persons in document unknown to you, your not in a position to do this and respectfully ask the the DOJ perform this task.
You may be OK and not need to do this but I added it to the request that got Xen's name released because the T&C's of a FOIA stipulate that the requesting party must submit proof that the person is deceased before they will release anything. Tell you what, I'll paste my request I submitted for Xenophon's name. I know your more than competent to file one yourself Rich but this one, as you know, was successful so you could use it as a guide if you wish. I'll paste below this message....

Alex Lewis

6/17/2016 04:14:08 am

Today's Date: DECEMBER 6, 2015.

For the Attention of FOIA Officer: Mr David P. Sobonya.

Dear Sir.

The following requests are being made under/via the Freedom of Information Act.

This request will deal with a document dated November 6th, 1969 specifically. The Document in question is found within your Dpt's files and is within The FBI's Website Vault, under 'Vault Home - The Zodiac Killer Part 02 of 06.' (Please Note, the Document of relevance that pertains to this request is the Fifteenth (15) page/doc into the Forty-One page Folder.

This Titled Document consists of Two A4 sized pages of information therein, and the Document details which will assist your Dpt. in locating the Document itself, are as follows:

Status and Doc Date: URGENT: 11 - 6 - 69 MS

To: DIRECTOR (9-49911) Attn: IDENT DIVISION

From: SAN FRANCISCO (9-2296)

Document Header/Title and/or Subject matter: UN-SUB, "VALLEJO TIMES HERALD," VALLEJO, CALIFORNIA - VICTIM - EXTORTION 00: SACRAMENTO.

The request in relation to this document I have relates to the second of the two pages in the two page Document. This document relates to the unsolved and inactive case known in General by the criminal/criminals moniker of 'The Zodiac Killer.'

Please could you go to the second sheet of this document (A4) that begins with: 'PAGE TWO. Followed by -REDACTED NAME- WMA, DOB: -Redacted-, RESIDES: -REDACTED ADDRESS- SAN FRANCISCO.'

The following sentence features the redacted name for which I am petitioning your Dpt. for the release of said person Named in this sentence. The Sentence in question is as follows, quote:

"FOR INFO IDENT DIVISION, SAN FRANCISCO PD ADVISED EIGHT YEAR OLD WITNESS IN MURDER OF CAB DRIVER IDENTIFIED --REDACTED NAME-- AS POSSIBLE SUBJECT IN THIS MATTER.' End quote.

The above statement and the said redacted name is the name I am requesting be released. Please be advised I am aware that the onus is with requesting party to show proof of said person deceased as Privacy Laws are no longer relevant nor Legally prevent personal names and/or info being withheld. I cannot, as I respectfully hope your Dpt understands that I am not in a position to supply the status of this person as Living or Deceased when the very request I am making is for the name/identity of said redacted individual to be made known/released.

This will be my Third request for this redacted name to be released and in my not wishing to file request's one after another for this same name release (As I appreciate your back-logged as it is with requests) could you please respond to this request with either granting the requested redact be un-redacted & rel;eased and, or if it be denied, could I please get a quick sentence or two to explain why this name is unable to be made public?

I am genuinely respectful and appreciative of your Dpt. being willing to look into this and to help with my specific request. I look forward to hearing back in reply from you in direct relation to the above request.

Please could you send any/all response material/Documentation to the following Residential Address & Name. . .

Alex Lewis

6/18/2016 05:05:36 pm

I am envisioning San Fran's FOIA Officer, Mr Dave Sobonya, as He inspects yur request.....

I have submitted at least three FOIA's in direct relation to the same Document Rich so I can Mr Sobonya Sobbing as He pulls the document in question.....

"Ohh for Fk sake, this f***** Document again! We've given them Robert West hoping they wouldn't notice He was not the individual Identified but this f'king Welsh Chappie realized and kept filing FOIA's and so we caved and released Xenophon Anthony. Now they want all the names released......Fkin Zodiac this Zodiac that! I shall be sleepwalking before long spray painting fking Cross-Hairs all over the bedroom walls!

Alex Lewis

6/18/2016 01:08:00 pm

Getting on my nerves now proper! You can no longer find genuine Zodiac case information easily using google searching 'Zodiac Killer' because the first twenty seven thousand pages are all Relating to Ted Cruize. Ok, slight exaggeration there but is this 'long running gag' at Ted's expense going to endure forever. Getting extremely tedious now, it was established a year or so back that Ted being born December 22, 1970 makes His eligibility somewhat questionable!

Now please..... Go Away Again!

Alex Lewis

6/18/2016 08:36:40 pm

Hey Rich, very rare Documentary/Investigative effort by TV's ABC Primetime. A Youtube member has been kind enough to upload it.

Link below:

https://youtu.be/FPPr7JXISxc

Richard

6/19/2016 01:39:51 am

It would appear from this documentary that Mike's suspect has been ruled out as a contributor to the DNA found beneath the Zodiac stamps. I am assuming he must have a reason to still be pursuing this angle, which he may expand upon. I personally have never considered this man a viable suspect in the case, but then again I have not considered any of the named suspects with any degree of belief. Having a pet suspect, in my opinion only, blinds you to the case. You look at elements of the case with your suspect in the back of your mind, not only dismissing evidence, but also placing more weight on criteria that gives you a leg up. For example, I like Dave Toschi do not put great credence in the Presidio Heights sketch, it was a 50-60 foot distance sighting in less than perfect conditions by three teenagers, and worst of all Donald Fouke should have been instructed to construct a composite sketch separate to the three teenagers before ever laying eyes on the original. Had they then closely resembled one another, it may have carried more weight, but eyewitness identification is notoriously unscientific and on the whole poor. Now Ross Sullivan looks exactly like the Presidio Heights sketch, so obviously proponents of Ross Sullivan will say the three teenagers got a good view, there was good streetlighting, the taxicab itself illuminated the suspect and the witnesses got a prolonged view of the suspect, all the time knowing in the back of their mind this adds value to their suspect. In other words its in their interest to validate the sighting as accurate. If Ross Sullivan or as in the case of Allen they don't look like the sketch, suddenly their view of the Presidio Heights eyewitnesses change, the streetlighting was poor, the majority of the time the Zodiac was obscured inside the taxicab, it was dark, Fouke only got a fleeting glimpse or Zodiac did state he was wearing a disguise. Even padded suits and false soles on shoes have been touted to keep pet suspects in the frame. When Allen was ruled out, Graysmith highlighted poor preservation of the evidence, when he understood the DNA was discovered on the underside of the stamps, he then went into overdrive, finding reasons to say Allen got somebody else to lick the stamps. Anything not to make his decades old beliefs not look like a wasted adventure. It always reminds me of the poor policing, when they latch onto a suspect with little evidence and put the blinkers on. Graysmith did a lot of good investigative work that kept this case alive, but he falls into the same trap as all the investigators do today, like a dog with a bone. In my opinion only it must be stressed, when people latch onto suspects their impartiality is tainted, you now have sites angled towards Richard Gaikowski, Ross Sullivan etc and therefore biased standpoints from the off. There is nothing wrong with having a belief in a suspect as your best candidate, but when it permeates every independent topic on the Zodiac from Lake Herman Road to Presidio Heights, that you have to carefully shape your answer so as not to jeopardize your suspect sitting in the back of your mind, your impartiality when approaching every subject you talk about is tainted. It is borne out of bias and nothing more exemplifies this than the investigative work of Robert Graysmith.

Richard

6/19/2016 02:29:43 am

Your page on Lawrence Kane is excellent, but I know you are not protective of this suspect, even you have questions and when challenged on Lawrence Kane you don't fly into an abusive rage like so many people do when you challenge their pet suspect. I will however use the Lawrence Kane page as an example. When you or Mike for example want to generate an interest towards a subject, obviously the first ports of call are to assemble all the circumstantial factors that point in one direction. I do this when writing my articles, you lean the article to project a line of thought or hypotheses you have created in your mind, to give the article more sway or credibility, carefully omitting the factors that may discredit your article, in a form of writing bias. We all do it. I said this to stop you flying off the handle, getting really angry and flying into an uncontrollable rage and never visiting my site again. But if I gave you a project to write an equally long page on Lawrence Kane, ruling him out or discrediting him as as a suspect, you could do an equally good job. Many people cite Richard Gaikowski, even saying he likely travelled in the front of Stine's taxicab. But what they fail to mention is the street guide dragged out onto the road when Paul Stine was removed from the taxicab. This was obviously on the front passenger seat of the taxicab, alongside Stine, pulled out onto the street when extricated from the taxicab. Had their been a passenger in the front seat, are we to assume he sat on top of this map when entering the taxicab or wouldn't Stine or the passenger have moved it, and the taxicab driver placed it on the dashboard or placed it in away in a glove box etc. Now this is carefully never mentioned by proponents of a front seat shooting. Either they haven't thought of it or it is conveniently ignored. Of course it is not conclusive proof that nobody travelled in the front seat, but it has to be covered from a standpoint of neutrality. With every suspect from Lawrence Kane, Arthur Leigh Allen, Richard Gaikowski, Kjell Qvale, every 2 pages you can write implicating your suspect into the fray, I bet if presented with a million dollars, you could write 20 pages ruling them out, it's just the incentive is not there to make this worthwhile. It is so much more fun creating a theory than destroying one. When somebody presented with untold wealth is asked to discredit the evidence against a suspect and every attempt looks desperate, because it is harder to discredit than implicate, we may be onto something, but from what I have read to date we are no nearer identifying the Zodiac Killer than we were in 1969, and nobody to date has convinced me on any evidence so far. My guess is the Zodiac Killer has never been identified and is almost certainly dead, in fact likely died before we reached 1980. I have no proof, only theories, that carry as much weight as the evidence against all of the above suspects, which unfortunately counts for very little. Hopefully still your friend Rich.

Alex Lewis

6/22/2016 01:53:39 pm

"Your page on Lawrence Kane is excellent, but I know you are not protective of this suspect, even you have questions and when challenged on Lawrence Kane you don't fly into an abusive rage like so many people do when you challenge their pet suspect. "

Glad you noticed Rich. If you can find them there are posts over at Morfs where I state repeatedly that I take exception to Kane being referred to as 'My Suspect' because I simply don't see it that way. He isn't My suspect, He's a suspect that, at the time of writing the page, I happen to think was the most likely of the top suspects to be the Zodiac but make a point of adding that I don't know that He is.

I also agree with the point you make about Gaik and supporters pointing to His poccibly traveling up front. There is no evidence that Zodiac traveled up front and in my opinion, the Zodiac is too cowardly to try shooting another man face on or side on, it would always be from the rear and a sneak blindsided attack.

And yes, as per the documentary and DNA evidence comparison, Kjell Qvale willingly seems to supplied a sample of His DNA, which would tend to suggest He's innocent even before results come back, there is no court order here He's simply giving it over by His own Free will and choice, and then the results come back seeming to rule Kjell out the as the contributor to the saliva found on the underside or sticky side of the stamp. I imagine Mike will likely point to the letter having passed through several hands and thus is contaminated and the DNA therefore inconclusive. As you suggested, when you have a one tracked mind and blinkered vision, you'll tend to ignore little facts such as the DNA coming from an airtight sealed stamp affixed to a letter. While the potential for cross-contamination is not impossible, it is, in my opinion, extremely unlikely considering the place it was lifted from.

Alex Lewis

8/18/2016 01:42:21 am

" I said this to stop you flying off the handle, getting really angry and flying into an uncontrollable rage and never visiting my site again."

Too Late!! Frothing at the Mouth as we speak!! How dare you, I cannot handle nor accept anyone questioning Me, ME! Do you know what happened to the last man who questioned me!!! I had Him Euthanized Immediately! How dare you speak about My Little Larry lake this, I will have this site shut down and the creator put down, How dare you! EUTHANIZE, EUTHANIZE AT ONCE, Euthanize everybody that doesn't accept without question everything I say, MY EGO CANNOT TAKE BEING QUESTIONED ABOUT POSSIBLY NOT BEING CORRECT WHEN MAKE SAY SOMETHING....

*Chest Pains.....* Now look what you've done, I am about to drop dead now because of you!!

:-)

Richard

8/18/2016 04:37:49 am

Don't drop dead My Royal Alexness, my hits on the site may drop to zero.

Richard

6/19/2016 03:42:37 am

Something to remember is Donald Fouke's memorandum, the first official recognition that he had spotted anybody that night, despite suspicions he contributed to the revised sketch. Donald Fouke, again in the video link you provided above seems to suggest he last saw the suspect entering the stairwell of a residence. In his memorandum he described a man with a shuffling lope, bent
forward. He described the man by saying he was going north up Maple into the Presidio. At no point did he say the man was running or that he entered Julius Khan Park as the newspapers reported on the 12th October, the day after the crime. Do you honestly believe the newspapers got this information from Pelissetti or more importantly Donald Fouke, when he wasn't even mentioned in the police report the following day. Could you imagine, Donald Fouke has effectively let a murderer pass him, although unknown at that juncture, he then stands there to be interviewed by the Chronicle saying "Yes when we approached Jackson and Maple a man was observed running into Julius Khan Park and we just ignored him and carried on to Cherry Street" as he said in the 2007 documentary. Even the superiors of Donald Fouke, had they known of this sighting would surely not say "Yes a man was seen running into the Julius Khan Park", this would clearly indicate somebody saw this man. I know the papers aren't always correct, but this seems very close to the truth to be concocted by the Chronicle. The man seen running into the Julius Khan Park was clearly not seen by Donald Fouke, as he stated he only saw the suspect walking with a shuffling lope, NOT running and NOT entering Julius Khan Park, where ultimately the Zodiac himself would corroborate on October 13th. "If they had searched the park properly." Therefore where did the eyewitness come from who identified a man RUNNING into the park, it wasn't Fouke after all, there is no way he would admit to a 'running man' or a 'man entering the park' and then not only doing nothing about it or informing his superiors. Had he seen a running man, he surely wouldn't have carried on up Jackson. He also wouldn't have been in a position to see a man entering Julius Khan Park. Therefore it is logical, other than the three teenagers and Donald Fouke, a third party eyewitness may be responsible for this sighting by West Pacific Avenue ie; the 8 year old. Had this child been looking out of his window that night he/she may have spotted a man running into the park. The newspaper report says "later reports indicated somebody was seen running into the park." The later heavy police presence in the park, along with fire trucks and floodlights may have triggered the child to tell his parents, who informed the police that evening. A description was taken, along with the above document subject's name. Then this person could have been placed in a car and driven unsuspectingly past the 8 year old who identified the said subject as the one who entered the park. At no point in all this investigation does Fouke ever mention seeing a man running into the park, he mentions 3712 Jackson Street in this early video or what I mean is he indicates a man approaching a house in Jackson, totally ruling him out from being an eyewitness to a man running into the park, even his memorandum never states this, so this 'unexplained sighting' could not be from Fouke and had to be a third party, unless you contest Fouke was in three places at once and the Chronicle article was just a lucky guess.
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97/tahoe27/Newspaper%20Articles/ZodiacSFChron10-12-69CabbieSlain_zpsbf4703cf.jpg

Alex Lewis

6/22/2016 04:29:21 pm

"The newspaper report says "later reports indicated somebody was seen running into the park." The later heavy police presence in the park, along with fire trucks and floodlights may have triggered the child to tell his parents, who informed the police that evening."

Yes, later reports indicate somebody was seen running into the park" and I think the answer to who this references goes back to, and can be found within, Zodiac's letter when He brags of being stopped. He says in His letter He told Fouke 'Yes, a man went running by waving a gun" and then watched them go around the corner and into the Presidio. Based on His claiming the cops peeled rubber into the Presidio when He declared that He'd seen a man run by with a gun, it's a safe assumption to make that He'd told them also He saw Him run into the Presidio otherwise, why would Don and Eric make a B-Line straight for that very place?

Zodiac in His letter leaves out that He actually told them that He seen a man run into the Presidio because that's where He is about to claim He went and knows it won't make sense. However, Armond confirms it in Crimes of the Century when He says: "Another unit stopped someone, A White guy, and asked Had He seen anyone in the area and the person said 'Yes, a man just ran into the Presido'"

So, in a nut shell, I think looking for this witness who saw a man run into the Presidio on Jackson is a blind ally, I think it was Zodiac who that article refers to as having seen somebody run into the Presidio. But the article doesn't say who this was because the Police themselves are not admitting to stopping and speaking to Zodiac.

Richard

6/22/2016 10:13:28 pm

I found the answer eventually about the newspaper report, and who the eyewitnesses were, and it may give you a whole new fresh line of sleuthing. You'll find the answer here and in Graysmith's book.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-boastful-slayer

Richard

6/22/2016 10:14:12 pm

Ie; the comments section.

Richard

6/19/2016 04:06:18 am

The Paul Stine clearly describes on page 2, a second suspect labelled #2 SUSPECT. It describes "WMA, in his early forties, 5'8", heavy build, reddish-blond, crew cut hair. wearing eyeglasses, dark brown trousers, dark (navy blue or black) "Parka" jacket, dark shoes. Suspect should have many blood stains on his person and clothing, suspect may also be in possession of the keys to the Yellow Cab, possibly has wallet belonging to the victim. Last seen walking north on Cherry Street, from Washington Street'."

This suspect was described as being in their early forties, in direct contradiction to the three teenagers who described a 25-30 year old. Donald Fouke gave a similar description to this, but he never countersigned this police report, only Pelissetti on behalf of himself and Frank Peda. So again since the admission that both police officers Fouke and Zelms had at a later date admitted the passing of a suspect on Jackson Street, then this police report throws doubt on the sighting of a second suspect being from these two police officers, again lending weight to a third party, the 8 year old, but this time right by the crime scene.

Alex Lewis

8/6/2016 07:12:59 pm

Who this Eight year old witness is/was is, for Me, something I want to know, rather than a need to. It would be nice to have it possible to ask where they were situated, how He/She made the Ident itself, were their ident of a suspect cross checked with other on scene witnesses suchas Rebecca etc etc.

I just can't see their silence all these years being "I never spoke of this because Nobody ever asked about it...." like Nancy Slover had said.

It is not simply the silence of a witnesses alone, but clearly, the non-recognition of them by official channels or Law Agencies in their Police Reports.

Richard

6/19/2016 04:30:03 am

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97/tahoe27/Newspaper%20Articles/ZodiacSFChron10-12-69CabbieSlain_zpsbf4703cf.jpg

On the other side of the coin regarding Fouke and the police report;
The chronicle article describes a man about 40 with a grey jacket and trousers, not a jacket (Navy or royal blue) described by Fouke in the memorandum. Fouke also describes the trousers as Brown wool pants (Rust brown), not grey. The Chronicle article describes the man running into Julius Khan Park, Fouke never describes the man running and doesn't mention seeing a man enter Julius Khan Park. In fact #2 SUSPECT in the police report we suspect was from Donald Fouke states, "dark brown trousers, dark (navy blue or black)", a description eerily similar to the Donald Fouke memorandum, but certainly not grey jacket and trousers, which suggests a third party, bearing in mind the "about 40" description. Considering this article was published on the 12th and was unlikely sourced from Fouke, it is either extremely poor journalism or the article just happened to concoct a man entering the park, that was ultimately corroborated by the killer himself.

Richard

6/19/2016 05:28:55 am

https://youtu.be/FPPr7JXISxc?t=32m50s

This section above does it for me. " We asked Officer Don Fouke to take us back to the place where he spotted the man he later realized was Zodiac." Donald Fouke "He came down the north side of the street, and turned and went up a flight of stairs into a courtyard." Reporter " He brings us very close to the house, then occupied by the man Mike Rodelli suspects. How do you feel to have brought us right to the doorstep of an individual that has been singled out. Donald Fouke "Well I feel a little bit miffed about it, that this individual wasn't pointed out by somebody before now." Well I thought Qvale lived at 3636 Jackson St, a block eastwards, not 3712 Jackson St, the address he mentioned in the 2007 documentary. Either way Donald the fake memorandum was hastily constructed by the farcical SFPD states "that a possible suspect was last seen walking east on Jackson and then north on Maple."
A suspect cannot walk up a stairwell into a courtyard, descend and then walk to the end of Jackson and turn up Maple in " 5,10,15 seconds tops." It's either one or the other. Unless you stopped him and observed his movements while your patrol car sat idle. Therefore Welsh if you like the idea of the courtyard scenario and the Zodiac living or entering a rear garden in Jackson to observe the unfolding police search, than the San Francisco Chronicle article is describing a third party eyewitness. Since it wasn't the three teenagers and it wasn't Donald Fouke, the only other eyewitness we know of, is the 8 year old, who likely lived on Jackson Street, backing onto West Pacific Avenue, the only vantage point that anybody could observe somebody entering the Julius Khan Park.

Alex Lewis

6/22/2016 02:01:00 pm

" Well I thought Qvale lived at 3636 Jackson St, a block eastwards, not 3712 Jackson St, the address he mentioned in the 2007 documentary. "

No Rich, 3636 Jackson is literally just the other side of Maple, maybe 2 or 3 houses past if you coming down Jackson through the Intersection. It is, in general terms, right near (just the other side of the intersection) of 3712

Richard

6/22/2016 02:13:31 pm

What I meant was the next block, which is east.

Richard

6/19/2016 06:31:54 am

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh97/tahoe27/Newspaper%20Articles/ZodiacSFChron10-12-69CabbieSlain_zpsbf4703cf.jpg

Now let's take this Chronicle article on October 12th 1969 as a fresh recollection and therefore accurate, and for now dismiss Donald Fouke's ever changing story. The article states, one day after the murder, before it was even apparent it was a Zodiac attack "Later reports indicated someone was seen running into Julius Khan playground in the Presidio and all seven police dog units were pressed into the search." This is very specific, it doesn't say "someone running into Presidio Park", as this stretches from Arguello Boulevard to approximately Presidio Boulevard. In other words the whole park. This article is clear and specific stating the Julius Khan PLAYGROUND, seen here on Google Maps.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Washington+St+and+Cherry+St,+San+Francisco,+CA,+USA/37.78976,-122.45583/@37.7907985,-122.4548803,306m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m10!4m9!1m5!1m1!1s0x808587301b6b6cc5:0x8ad56b1d3e042f1!2m2!1d-122.4572353!2d37.7886851!1m1!4e1!3e2?hl=en

Considering this area of West Pacific Avenue is dark with limited street lighting, my guess had somebody specifically saw somebody running into the playground, then no1 and no2 Spruce Street as they are labeled here, are ideal locations that overlook Julius Khan PLAYGROUND, shown here on Google Maps.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/37.7905619,-122.4540446/37.7905051,-122.4544695/@37.790524,-122.4543964,182m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!4m1!3e2?hl=en

Funnily enough Zodiac in the Bus Bomb Letter, as I have always contested stated "I was walking down the hill to the park when this cop car pulled up + one of them called me over + asked if I saw anyone acting suspicious or strange in the last 5 to 10 min + I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber + went around the corner as I directed them + I disappeared into the park a block + a half away never to be seen again." Zodiac was stopped just past halfway on Jackson Street, even 3712 Jackson is about just past halfway. So if Zodiac had travelled "one and a half blocks" before entering the park, he would have entered down Spruce Street, right past No1 and No2 Spruce Street, and the perfect vantage point to observe a man running down the street and into the JK PLAYGROUND. My logical guess is Zodiac was never lying about entering the park and in fact his statement in his October 13th and November 9th letters were actually backed up by a third party eyewitness, my guess is likely lived somewhere in the north end of Spruce Street, looking at the playground from this direction
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7902426,-122.4541773,3a,37.5y,339.41h,79.13t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sQCJ3BDfDp2yzCy4errTdfw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Also Spruce Street is a thoroughfare, through to West Pacific Avenue and the park, unlike Cherry or Maple, where the Zodiac would have had to trek through gardens and a dividing wall. This is the first available thoroughfare from Cherry, the Zodiac states he goes down Spruce effectively and the eyewitness must have been close to the playground. Case closed. Maybe. Next job, locate the family tree of these residents in 1969 and you maybe have your third eyewitness or possibly the 8 year old child.

Richard

6/19/2016 06:47:32 am

The two end properties are
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=1+spruce+street+san+francisco+ca
and
https://www.google.co.uk/#q=2+spruce+street+san+francisco+ca

Richard

6/19/2016 06:49:14 am

What a lovely view of the playground
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/2+spruce+street+san+francisco+ca/@37.7892047,-122.4540825,191a,20y,41.71t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x78034bfd31ca61f1

Richard

6/19/2016 06:51:34 am

Julius Khan Playground
http://sfrecpark.org/destination/julius-kahn-playground/

Address :
West Pacific Ave & Spruce St
San Francisco, CA 94118

Richard

6/19/2016 07:09:58 am

Even at best Donald Fouke stated in the memorandum he last saw Zodiac heading north on Maple, this is not next to the playground, it is one block away. The article said "into the Julius Khan playground in the Presidio", stressing the exact location. This means that the eyewitness the Chronicle is referring to is neither Fouke or the teenagers.

Alex Lewis

6/29/2016 07:47:24 am

Yeah but it appears Rich that Zodiac may have grown rather angry with police for their not pursuing Him with the full resources of San Fran's PD. Zodiac angs around until AP Hits His Siren before He leaves the crime scene. He then 'Casually' walks away along cherry Street before arriving at Jackson I'section and looks around in sheer disgust!

"HOW DARE THEY NOT MAKE MYSELF THEIR ONLY PRIOROTY TO DETAIN! Do these Prowling idiot's know who I am?

Right bollox I'm off down this Hill here on the sidewalk under he lights, when I see a Pig I shall run up some steps making it obvious I am completely suspicious!
Ah-Ha....Here's one! Wait until He spots me and.....turn away and scurry up steps!!" 30 Seconds later He is coming back down the same Steps:

"Have I f***** seen anyone acting fuc*** suspicious in the last 5 or 10 mins, Have I fUC**** SEWEN, YES... YES F'ING FRUIT CAKES! ME, ME YOU TWIT! I WAIT TILL WE MAKE EYE CONTACT BEFOR RUNNING UP STEPS AWAY FROM YOU AND WHAT DOO I GET.....SWEET F.A! !"

I feel quite sorry for Him to be Honest Rich. He likely sank into the deepest of depressions once it hit Him He could probably empty His 9mm Into their Patrol Car as they approach and the'd still slow to a stop: "Evening Sir....Seen anyone acting suspicious at all this fine evening?"

Forget the Hood Z, too close to Halloween. They'd congratulate you on your All Hallows costume & wonderful CrossHair Stitch work.

Richard

6/19/2016 07:32:36 am

1 Spruce St Robert P. Lilienthal
2 Spruce St Mabel Filmer

http://archive.org/search.php?query=polk%27s%20city%20directory%20san%20francisco

Richard

6/19/2016 07:43:14 am

http://www.familytreenow.com/search/census/results?first=Robert&last=Lilienthal&city=san%20francisco&state=CA&rid=0s0&smck=CefID_UiiHIwAK9xBQozKw

Richard

6/19/2016 07:46:22 am

Robert P Lilienthal would have been 55 years in 1969.

http://www.familytreenow.com/search/genealogy/results?first=Mabel%20&last=Filmer&city=san%20francisco%20&state=CA

Richard

6/19/2016 07:55:23 am

Don't know if this is the same guy, but at 84 he would have been born in 1913, but since he was only 8 days shy of his birthday maybe 1914 is near enough. It looks likely
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/OBITUARY-Robert-Philip-Lilienthal-3014295.php

Richard

6/21/2016 11:28:19 am

Taken from my other article, as it has relevance here:
Now here is an interesting new side angle. Donald Fouke stated in his memorandum on November 12th 1969, that he last saw Zodiac walking down Jackson and turning north on Maple, as though heading towards the Presidio. But in the 2007 Zodiac documentary he clearly states after meeting Pelissetti and being updated on the WMA description "we turned around to get to the Presidio, and my reasoning on that was because turning down Maple would lead through the Presidio wall directly into Julius Khan playground, which had a lot of foliage, so we turned and looked for the alleged suspect in the area of Julius Khan playground."
Well turning down Maple doesn't lead directly to Julius Khan playground, but Spruce Street does, and direct access as well, unlike Maple that has no direct thoroughfare. See here.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Washington+St+and+Cherry+St,+San+Francisco,+CA,+USA/37.78976,-122.45583/@37.7900787,-122.4558659,64m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m10!4m9!1m5!1m1!1s0x808587301b6b6cc5:0x8ad56b1d3e042f1!2m2!1d-122.4572353!2d37.7886851!1m1!4e1!3e2?hl=en

This is only a thought to be considered, but let us say Donald Fouke's sighting of Zodiac wasn't around the intersection of Jackson and Maple, it was at Jackson and Spruce, in other words Fouke made an error identifying the road. The Zodiac mentions walking down the hill when he meets the police, he never identifies any roads. If the meeting occurred approaching the Jackson/Spruce intersection, then Fouke's 2007 documentary statement is correct, it does lead directly to Julius Khan playground, the San Francisco article would be correct, a witness (ie Fouke) sees a man enter the playground, possibly running and although this is about 5 minutes after Zodiac left the taxicab, he did say in the Bus Bomb letter "one of them called me over + asked if I saw anyone acting suspicious or strange in the last 5 to 10 min." Well he would have left the cab 5 minutes earlier, putting his exit up Cherry nearer to 9.54 pm. If we concede there are no other eyewitnesses were in this region, or the three teenagers or the 8 year old, then this is Fouke's sighting. Most of the description tallies with the memorandum and the #2 suspect on page 2 of the police report, other than the color of the jacket and trousers. But he may have amended this at a later date, especially as he may of adjusted it in corroboration with the three teenagers.
In this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPPr7JXISxc&feature=youtu.be&t=32m50s

he takes the presenter to Mike Rodelli's suspect Kjell Qvale's house, saying this is where Zodiac approached a house, but this house isn't the 3712 Jackson Street he reveals in the 2007 documentary. Kjell Qvale lived at 3636 Jackson Street, one block down, just short of Spruce Street. So you can see we have two contesting theories here. A Zodiac entering 3712 Jackson and entering Maple OR Zodiac entering 3636 Jackson and entering Spruce. The question is, has Donald Fouke got his blocks mixed up.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-boastful-slayer#comments

Richard

6/21/2016 02:52:13 pm

Transferred this as well;
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/6265081_orig.gif

The image above is a snapshot of the house pictured in the ABC Primetime documentary. In the video here https://youtu.be/FPPr7JXISxc?t=32m54s
It states "we ask Donald Fouke to take us back to the place where he spotted the man he later realized was Zodiac. He brings us very close to the house then occupied by the man Mike Rodelli suspects." The house 3636 is behind the one shown in the snapshot and on the video. But compare this snapshot with a street view on Google Maps.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7899685,-122.4542937,3a,37.5y,293.83h,87.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXaBzfkYVSXFkdj-C_5yyfg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

The windows have been replaced, but this is the exact location. If you run through the video you see the street sign on the sidewalk, visible just behind the white car on Google Maps. Also notice the close proximity of the house to the sidewalk and road. But at 3712 Jackson St, one block westwards, where Donald Fouke was supposed to have seen the Zodiac, there are no signs at eye level and the houses are set much further back from the sidewalk and street. See here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.7897293,-122.4561003,3a,75y,293.49h,80.11t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWREB99opU6BXFfDWKIyzhQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Donald Fouke is effectively saying he spotted Zodiac entering the courtyard of 3636 Jackson, a block east of the where everybody has believed for 50 years, if we go by this visual reconstruction and Donald Fouke actually returning to the area. There is no way he could be one block out. But when he said he saw Zodiac on the north side of the street as he was heading towards Maple would be correct. Zodiac would be approaching 3636 Jackson and the intersection of Jackson and Spruce.

Richard

6/22/2016 02:10:18 pm

Continued here http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/the-boastful-slayer#comments

Mike

6/23/2016 03:56:05 pm

I was intrigued enough in Mr. Anthony to request his handwriting. I received it very quickly from the SSA today. It does not look like Z's.

Richard

6/23/2016 04:15:43 pm

Mike can you send me a sample!

Mike

6/23/2016 08:18:51 pm

Hi-

Since 1999, I have believed that the Gilbert and Sullivan references may indicate that there were two people at work, a killer and a letter writer. We cannot discount that possibility, which is why I am skeptical about handwriting alone or evidence derived from letters solving the Z case or clearing suspects.

So I do not say that Anthony is ruled out as having any role. However, after having my friend Jim interview the eyewitnesses, I believe I know who was in and around the cab that night and it was not Mr. Anthony. So his role to ME would be obscure at best if he is not the letter writer. But that is just MY take on the case based on MY OWN research and conclusions.

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 06:50:21 am

Hey Mike, ty for getting hold of Anthony's H'writing. As with any suspect, I don't consider Mr Anthony 'My' suspect nor touting Him as Zodiac. As explained, I merely found the fact that a witness had given a name after seeing Zodiac. Now:

"So I do not say that Anthony is ruled out as having any role. However, after having my friend Jim interview the eyewitnesses, I believe I know who was in and around the cab that night and it was not Mr. Anthony. "

Can we speak to your friend 'Jim' to ask our own questions? If we were in A hypothetical Courtroom, both sides get to ask the witness questions. Cross examine, if you will. Otherwise Mike, it's hearsay. Secondly Mike there's a key word in your sentence of " I believe I know who was in and around the cab that night" and that word is Believe. If I believe in Santa, does that make Him real and exist? That's obviously a rhetorical question but care to explain how you believe you 'Know' what We don't, the Identity of the man in Paul's cab on Oct 11?

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 06:55:07 am

I can't help hearing the Late Christopher Hitchens words echoing in my mind after reading your statement Mike. CH was asked isn't there a place for Mysteries and the Unknown? His response was:

"Sure.....As long as that's what it is. Anyone who says they 'Know' the answers is out of the argument straight away because they are claiming to know something that, by the very definition (of mystery) they cannot know."

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 07:49:08 am

This statement is one I absolutely agree with....

https://youtu.be/v2bKDMFm6o8?t=7m45s

Alex Lewis

6/29/2016 03:56:00 am

"Since 1999, I have believed that the Gilbert and Sullivan references may indicate that there were two people at work, a killer and a letter writer."

A theory Mike I absolutely concur with you about. I can't help but think they very likely had Zodiac (The Active Killer) sat across the desk from them in SFPD Homicide Interrogation Room but can't get a DNA Sample for comparison as, DNA.....What's that? Fingerprints! Yes! We'll compare His print to a print we cannot exclusively say we know to be the fingerprint of the Zodiac found at the cab, Z counters with it being nothing more than planted evidence to amuse Himself watching cops run around chasing a useless & flawed line of inquiry.

And SFPD seemed to have reached a similar conclusion because they made no secret of the fact that the evidence they were using to eliminate suspects was not fingerprints nor Witnesses Identification etc but actually, hand-printing comparison to Zodiac's letters based on Mel Belli's Professional Opinion that given the free flowing and same consistent style seen in His letters, they are, Mel concluded, written in His (whomever He may be) Natural everyday hand.

That may well be correct, but it means absolutely nothing if as you suggest Mike, the person carrying out the murders is one half of a duo, the 2nd member writing the communications.

Richard

6/29/2016 04:14:46 am

Do yo mean Sherwood Morrill rather than Belli, who had no professional connection to handwriting analysis. The two or more perpetrator argument has been around for many years, while I don't discount it out of hand Mr Welsh (good luck on Fry by the way), if you don't go through in 120 minutes, then I will go on a shootout rampage all over the weekend, I tend towards the one person perpetrator, only because not one single argument has convinced me otherwise.

Alex Lewis

6/29/2016 05:49:36 am

"Do yo mean Sherwood Morrill rather than Belli,"

Yes. What the hell am I on about lol. Melvin has become a Graphologist for some reason today in my mind. Sorry but, yes, that is who I meant, Sherwood the Handwriting Supremeo, and not Melvin the Lawyer who moonlights as a Questioned Document Examiner.

3 Day Sabbatical and I can't remember who's who. Tomorrow I shall be telling you all about Lake Berryessa Park Ranger Mr David Toschi

Alex Lewis

6/29/2016 05:51:39 am

BTW, did you get My email Rich? Haven't logged back in to check inbox yet.

Richard

6/29/2016 05:59:44 am

Yes, that's a good move, I just hope he hasn't read the material you've posted about him on this site, or else you'll probably get a reply shaped like a square with wires sticking out.

Alex Lewis

6/29/2016 06:32:54 am

I did briefly have similar concerns Rich, maybe I should write Him using A pseudonym? "Hi Donald, this is the Welshie Phantom wishing to know whether Jackson Street Resident Mr Xenophon Lusby Anthony is Zodiac, thank you and please tell me quickly.

Ale.....I mean, The Welshie Phantom thing.

No but serious though, yes, I have said some less than flattering things about Him but I stand by the reason I have done so. I have never once said similar abut Dave Slaight, Nancy Slover, Ken Narlow etc etc because they have not made an already merky, low visibility hypothetical case waters, the last thing you need is Trusted Official Sources determined to transform that into complete zero visibility waters......And that, for some reason I am frowning at myself, is the best analogy I have off-hand today. One does apologize :-)

But serious though, when you already have lots of attached fictional claims that make any new comer to the case having to spend time sifting what's fact based and what isn't you expect from Hollywood and Zodiac 'Fans' but not professional Law Enforcement Officers.

On the other hand, I have any times, spoken kindly or to the credit of Don. He didn't have to come out and declare that His memo is inaccurate and that the suspect actually went up steps, into a Courtyard toward a residential property. He kept of kept quiet, stuck to the 'North on Maple' faff and avoid the hastle.

Right Rich I light of your observation, I believe you should be the person to write a 'Dear Don' Letter. I now have concerns of Him donning His uniform and side-arm and responding to the Valleys announcing His arrival by Driving His Cruizer through my front door before opening fire.

I am not the type to exaggerate Rich, I just don't want Him shooting me to Death. I may have to contact United Airlines to request the cancellation of His passport on the grounds of my imminent homicide.

Alex Lewis

6/30/2016 01:02:21 am

"The two or more perpetrator argument has been around for many years, while I don't discount it out of hand Mr Welsh"

Well I suppose I would have to say similar, I wouldn't say I come down on one side or the other either. The thing is, when you have Co-Conspirators or any more than one lone wolf so to speak, the more that are 'in the know' whether it be active Conspirator or simply know of the Conspiracy and who's involved etc, then the more unlikely it becomes to not get caught for obvious reasons. The Two main ones that come to mind are:

1. Human Beings love to talk and we've all had a close friend or relative say to us, "What I am about to tell you.... you have to swear, promise Me you will not tell anyone else first" and we give them the promise they requested before then hearing the juicy gossip they have, upon receipt of which We run off to John Doe's House to swear Him in as we were an hour previously.

2. Simple Logic says the more people involved, the higher the risk of mistakes and/or accidents happening.

Or, to use an analogy: If there is Only One egg i the Easter Egg Hunt in an area the size of the Presidio with 9 others and yourself Hunting for it then it's going to be difficult enough to locate it on it's own but the odds for you are 1 in 10, which renders yourself a 10/1 shot. However, add 4 more eggs to make 5 total and yor odds just shot up of finding one of them.

Richard

6/30/2016 03:19:02 am

Bump
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/welsh-chappie---zodiac-news/not-guilty-by-association#comments

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 10:22:25 am

Anyway, going back to the point of seeing things that aren't really there or, they are there, but how we interpret them and see hidden messages etc that are not there, this could be an example of that, or alternatively, could be what I am about to point out. . .

The 'Sorry No Cipher' written twice in the shape of the letter X....

This repeated phrase is written not on or in a Zodiac Letter, but rater,on the inside of the envelope He used to send it. He's never done this before nor after this one specific time and could it be a clue as in X.....written on the ENvelope to spell XEN and that, contrary to the sorry no cipher claim, is the actual cipher/puzzle He's giving?

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 02:52:09 pm

I am just as much intrigued in the post-investigation of Xen as I am in discovering why not a single LE officer or agency gave one mention back in 69 that a suspect had been formally id'd by a witness!

It isn't just your little 'insignificant' happening. LE touted: "We are following many leads and tips, but are we closer to catching Him? No."

Imagine the press conference...

"Nothing new, no solid leads or print matches, case is stalling and no new evidence has come to light. Ohh, well, except the positive Identification of a WMA by Name made by a on scene witness...."

This would be followed by a huge 'THUD' as Martin Lee falls off His chair: "WHAT!!!"

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 02:59:19 pm

I anticipate the response of "Well they obviously found no conclusive proof and as no charges were brought, He was never publicly named."

Reasonable and Rational sounding response, but then, no charges or hard evidence was found against Mr Allen, Mr Marshall, Mr Kane, and others and yet, we know their names as suspects.

Maybe Toschi was so impressed with His name 'XENOPHON' He eliminated Him based upon it and covered up the ID. Makes sense yes?

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 08:13:52 pm

I mean, they don't have to give His Name to press, but when a potential break in a long running case like this may come LE's way, they nearly always will say something like "Police say Mr Stine was murdered after pulling over at an intersection in The Presidio Heights area of the Richmond District. Police are questioning a Thirty-Eight year old local man after a witness came forward with information."

The only reasonable reason I can think of as to why they didn't put any stock in Xen, or anyone from that general area, being responsible is found in Don's own words where He stated He assumed the person responsible wouldn't live in such a high income, well to do area because, remember, this is a robbery by an assailant who's desperate for enough to kill for a few dollars.

Fouke later goes on to admit He believes He second guessed Himself that evening, a comment I believe He's making about assuming the crime was financially motivated and the responsible certainly not residing in the area.

If you as a cop stop Xen, Kjell, or anyone else that resides within a few blocks of the scene, you can be forgiven for making an on the spot assumption of who the offender isn't, or the kind of person He will probably be.

I often use the saying myself that 'If it looks like a rabbit, hops like a rabbit, and eating carrots like a rabbit then the odds are, it's a rabbit.' In this instance, however, if it looks like a robbery, offender rummaging through victims pockets like a robbery, and missing money consistent with a robbery, then the odds are the motive is. . .Robbery, right? Wrong. At least in this instance.

Alex Lewis

6/28/2016 08:27:16 pm

In fact, police and Detectives are trained in Homicide Investigation that the very first thing to establish is....Motive. As was stated by Capt. Ken Narlow, "Usually, in any Homicide Investigation, If you find the motive for the crime, then you'll find the person responsible for it."

Operating under such an assumption on Oct 11, 1969 was completely flawed as a path to follow. Whomever Don spoke with that night, Xen, Kjell, or an unnown 3rd suspect, I am pretty confident He was a resident of that area and Don established that fact and used it to conclude on the spot, "This is not our robbery suspect, but, He seems to have spotted the person who is running by waving a gun, He declares. Moving on to suspects that would possibly have a motive to rob a cabbie, this man is not our Guy."

Yes He was Don, Yes He was.

Alex Lewis

6/29/2016 03:04:28 am

Richard, I cannot help but notice that upon my return yesterday after my 72 Hr plus sabbatical, that you seem to have adopted as official website policy, to ignore me in the hope, vein as it is, that I will simply go away. However. . .

"In answer to your asking for more detail on my persistence I shall be happy to supply even more evidence of the 'Good Times' I had. PS. Ask Dave Sobonoya about my Online FOIA Activity. I do hope the Chat-Restriction-Police-Pig-Cops are having a good time with my Goads? If not, tell them to cheer up, when they do stop smoking crack, they still won't Have me.

Last Christmass:

Three Shots Fired, Third One hit David Sobonya in the desk after First Two missed. FOIA submitted, perks of The West.

There are reports that Web Mod Police Pig's are closing in, FK, I'm Crap Proof. Me - 37?

Bullshit! Ask the Frisco Fed's about my FOIA Activity when I started my collecting of Documents. If you Mods think I will take off and go silent, you deserve to have holes in your heads."

The Antagonist from Wales!

6/29/2016 04:57:53 am

Richard, I hope one does not mind but tough Sh*it if One does (Lol, just joking mate) but it seems that due to circumstances beyond my control, I have posted the following thread over at ZKMystery.com. . .

"Quote Edit like Post Options
Post by WelshChappie on 4 minutes ago
It was reported that A friend and Ally of Mine, Richard III of England, King of ZodiacCiphers.com, did post this document and attempt to create a thread over at a site I will refer to as 'ZodiacKiller.com' (Lol) but no sooner had He hit 'Post' to publish it, Mr Toooo-Mass Void had His website Police Moderators to carry out a Website Sanctioned Execution of it via Lethal Deletion.

It's a FOIA from Me you see, and what with Tom and I having such high regard for each other, I am very impressed and congratulate Too-Mass on His infantile throwing of His toys out of His little Pram while stamping His foot with "Go Away Welsh-Chumpie, you are nasty!"

I'm afraid Void is right, I am. I am so horrible I laughed at the request of 'A Minimum of $10 Extortion......I mean, Donation, required before He will allow you to become a contributing member to His sites chat boards. I recall choking on my Coffee and coughing while struggling to utter "TEN F****NG DOLLARS!" followed by something that sounded like "Fick Yew."

Claims it's to Help and contribute to His substantial gathering of official documentation found on His site, which I had to object with "No Ficker asked you collect & upload them, it's a hobby of yours. I enjoy playing pool as a hobby, maybe I can go down the local ext time and accost the customers for a minimum donation in recognition of my having arrived with my very own cue to hit the ball with. "£20 Please, I have a cue so pay up or else! Now, observe as I attempt a Red in left Center, enjoying playing the game as my hobby..... YOU THERE.....£20, NOW!"

Alex Lewis

7/16/2016 01:25:11 pm

***I am wondering into this thread Sulking as I go....***

I have been told off again, Richard. I have issued a remark/opinion of To-Mass Voitey which has been 'Frowned Upon' by others.

It's similar in Mindset to that of Benign Dictator and Human Rights Activist Mr Sadam Insand and His Iraq, a place that is associated still to this day with Peacem Freedom and Living Paradise.

The Two are seemingly Similar in that if you criticize them, Mr Insane and Mr Void, you'll be immediately sentenced to Death and Executed.

No But I need to clear one thing up on a serious note. It seems that, based on seeing a selection of responses, many completely misunderstand the need and Implementation of freedom of Speech as A Right to begin with. It is not there to protect speech which is popular or accepted by a majority, this needs no protecting because it's already accepted. The Rights to speak free is there for that Man or Woman who does not agree with the 'Status Quo' popular opinion or belief and wishes to voice as such and propose and counter opinion.

"The Sun, Rather than The Earth, is the Center of the Solar System" was once raged against as an absurd theory because We are too important not to be the Center of the S.S and the Ego's were infuriated! Nevertheless, that theory and the right to put it forward was and is essential because you just never know, it may have some merit and/or truth to it.

Legal Maxim that declares "It is not slander nor damaging to reputation if a thing said of a person is a thing said of truth"

Enough Said!

Ian

9/20/2016 06:37:51 am

Having been similarly morphed and voided from the forums for daring to have an honest opinion, I seem to have found myself on this page among the dwelling place of the damned, who are in actual fact the wisest of them all when it comes to the Zodiac.

I must say, good work on the Xenophone Anthony find. It is far too early to claim he was the Zodiac of course, but he certainly could have been. I have always felt that if Z is ever identified he will have an unusual name that made him stand out from the crowd. But otherwise he would have just looked and acted like the rest of the crowd and blended in. If not him, I am sure the Zodiac was someone like him.

Richard

9/20/2016 07:07:23 am

We therefore are the 'Wisest Damned', got a good ring to it.
Yes Xenophon Anthony is certainly an interesting find, being pivotal to the night of October 11th 1969, but as you said this line of investigation is in its infancy. I am not sure how much further we can take it without the cooperation from law enforcement and decades old eyewitnesses, along with limited information information available on the internet. In the next few weeks I may be making a FOIA request for the unredacted document at the foot of this page, that puts a military person in Riverside, San Francisco and Patterson around the relevant times. I don't know if it's Robert Hale West or somebody else we've never heard of.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/september-16th-2016

Alex Lewis

9/22/2016 12:59:25 pm

"Wisest Damned"

Yes, I like that.

As for Xenophon and where else we can take it, I am going to ask Oliver Hines, Harvey's Brother and former cop, if He can help in any way and do anything to find out more. Oliver told Me He was more involved with helping Harvey than most know, having once gone down to Help dig that location where they believed Lass may have been buried.

Alex Lewis

9/23/2016 05:57:24 am

Anyway, We, Myself and King Richard III, have established BARZS: British Amateur Researchers of Zodiac Society.

In response to our doing this without permission we find ourselves the targets of others who are not supporters of those who think for themselves and can make their own minds up & form opinions of their own.

The below is a link to the filmed response from certain communism loving people. . .

https://youtu.be/3kFB03xyU7I?t=37s

"Put more fluoride in their water immediately.....Brain damage them.....their not sumbitting to Us! More surveillance cameras, more armed Mods, More Police State Immediately! A Frightening....Frightening prospect! Their, their saying 'Off with their heads....."
Certain Members need to be protected from having to see what someone else May have posted: "Protect Me....Royal Guards..."

Alex Lewis

9/22/2016 01:18:46 pm

Ian, I've always felt that Zodiac lived on Jackson, or knew someone else who did because there has to be some logical reason why He'd reach the summit of Cherry st and ignore the entrance to the Presidio, if that was where He was going. I don't think it ever was His intended destination. He almost seems to try too hard to convince readers He was heading for the park by continually mentioning it in subtle suggestive hints such as "As I was walking down the hill to the park" & "Hey Blue Pig, I was in the Park" & "The SF Police could have caught Me last night if they had searched the park properly" to give just a few.

It seems to Me He's just trying to focus readers attention on the park by constantly referencing it to stop us looking elsewhere close By. Again, if He's heading for the Presidio, then He'll surely use Cherry entrance especially since by the time He arrives at the top of Cherry st, Armond is just pulling up at the cab the witnesses say. So, why in the World would He choose willingly to stay on the lit streets knowing cops are in the area? The only thing I can think of is He's heading for a House on that stretch of street, A house He can and does observe the search effort from in safety where they have no chance of finding Him which is why the 7 police dogs, army of cops and search lighting failed to flush Him out of the park because, put simply, He never was in there,

Richard

9/22/2016 01:36:58 pm

Alex, you know as well as I do that the top of Cherry and Maple were full of shrubs and foliage back in 1969. Somebody not totally familiar with the area would not have realized there was access across the wall at these points. In fact neither was a thoroughfare, so he didn't necessarily ignore the entrance, because neither were an entrance and neither were visible behind the shrubbery, especially at 10.00 pm at night.

Alex Lewis

9/22/2016 01:49:48 pm

"Somebody not totally familiar with the area would not have realized there was access across the wall at these points"

So what are you suggesting Rich, that He went to that area, directing Paul to a very specific 'Washington and Maple Streets' and had no idea where it was because He'd never been there and did not know that area? Also, the common belief most subscribe to, including yourself, is that He went into the Presidio via Maple. How can He know that entrance was there, yet not Cherry?

I cannot believe Rich nor accept that He got a cab directing Paul to Washington and Maple and did not know that area at all because even those with a fairly basic knowledge of that area would know and be aware of the entrances into the Presidio. In His letters He constantly talks about the Park, He knows that there was a park there and if He knew that then stands to reason He'd also know the routes to get to it.

Alex Lewis

9/22/2016 01:56:25 pm

And expecting you to reference Spruce St as His only known entrance into the Park area, why not direct Paul to Jackson and Spruce Street allowing immediate escape from that area? My theory is because He never intended any immediate escape from that area and always planned to watch the search effort from the safety of a residence close by. If He's local, as I said before, then He won't direct Paul to stop on the very street He lives on which would explain why He directed Paul to Washington and not Jackson. If Presidio is His planned route of escape, then there simply is no logical reason to ask Paul to take you to Washington and Any street because He has to backtrack half a block to get to that Presidio.

Richard

9/22/2016 01:58:32 pm

That is a fair point I can agree with Alex, that he may have been familiar with the area, but I have never said he went into the Presidio via Maple, I claim he entered via Spruce, which is what the Zodiac claimed in his letters. I believe him, but I can accept it was a ruse and him possibly entering a house in the region is not without its merits.

Richard

9/22/2016 02:02:36 pm

But like we both said not too long ago, had Zodiac held Stine under gunpoint in the taxicab, he may have intended to stop earlier, but something went awry.

Alex Lewis

9/23/2016 04:41:38 am

OK, My bad if you believe Spruce and not Maple. But for Me these streets are secondary to the fact that He's on Washington. Why, if He'd heading for the Presidio, does He direct Paul to Washington Street? Why not Go directly to Jackson and Spruce with His escape right there.

So can I assume you must also believe that despite being surrounded and stuck, He managed to elude cops and the dogs because He was downfield away from them.

But I agree, there is no right or wrong answers at present, just theories.

What document are you referring to filing for, the One you think could be further info/detail relating to Xen? And yes, The San Fran FOIA Officer, Mr Sobonya, has threatened to go to a Judge for an International Arrest Warrant for Myself charging Harassment if I file one more FOIA relating to Zodiac.
Written Warning to Myself declaring: Dear Mr Lewis. I hearby Give advanced forewarning that any other FOIA Requests submitted to Agent David Sobonya regarding subject 'Zodiac' will result in your being wanted by the FBI. It is the FBI's position that filing Eight Hundred and Thirty Four submitted requests in One Calendar Year is excessive and constitutes harassment and possibly Felony Stalking. Thank you for you cooperation in this matter Me Lewis. Yours: FBI FOIA Dpt.

I responded by filing Ninety Six FOI Requests the very week I received that letter. "We appreciate your cooperation..." is simply an assumption they are making because they obviously don't know Me.

I'm on the run Now posting from an undisclosed location... :-)

Richard

9/23/2016 06:23:15 am

This document Alex http://www.zodiacciphers.com/uploads/4/9/7/1/4971630/5poi_orig.gif
Do you reckon this is Hale West or AN other.

Alex Lewis

9/23/2016 09:16:34 am

"Do you reckon this is Hale West or AN other."

Wouldn't think so. In the Document you linked the suspects Address is listed, Robert H. West in the FOIA release is stated as 'Reportedly in US Marine Corps, as if unsure. Also, your Document states the suspect was stationed in both San Fran & Riverside, Robert West was stationed in Camp Pendleton, San Diego in Southern CA.

Richard

9/22/2016 02:06:53 pm

One day Alex, one day we may get an answer. I'm going to send a FOIA tomorrow for that FBI document I referenced.

Richard

9/22/2016 02:08:32 pm

But I think they are fed up with us now and seriously believe they are poisoning my drinking water with lead.

Alex Lewis

9/23/2016 06:17:06 am

"But I think they are fed up with us now and seriously believe they are poisoning my drinking water with lead."

You recon I should submit the next FOIA beginning:

"This is WelshChappie Submitting Again.

Dear Dave:

Sorry I haven't written, but I just washed My Pen!

I have grown rather angry with Richard receiving His request far faster than My own, so I now have a little list starting with 75 Requests I dived into which ended with My submitting them all one after 'tother.

PS: Sanity will never catch Me because I have been far too psychopathic for it.

FBI FOIA Dave is good, but He's only answering the easy one's. There's a whole lot more down here yet to be filed.

Alex Lewis

9/23/2016 09:05:28 am

"One day Alex, one day we may get an answer. I'm going to send a FOIA tomorrow for that FBI document I referenced."

And the quote that comes to mind is from the Whitehouse speech that Neil Armstrong gave where He rather cryptically said:

"To you, We say, We've only completed the beginning. We leave You much that is undone. There are great idea's undiscovered, breakthroughs available to those who can remove one of truths protective layers."

Richard

9/23/2016 09:14:55 am

One day when hell freezes over. Sacramento didn't reply. Tahoe police didn't reply. A San Francisco investigative reporter I contacted didn't reply. We know full well the case will never be solved.

Richard

9/23/2016 09:16:19 am

By the way, don't reply to this also.

Alex Lewis

9/23/2016 09:21:54 am

Even if you did somehow get the Authorities to comment on this case (I'm thinking mainly of SFPD Here and the whole Xenophon Ident Silence) then it would likely be along the lines of "Due to the passage of time, I cannot remember the specifics of that night in Oct 1969."

If they say time passage and their advanced age now renders the facts hazy and unclear in their minds, how can You prove otherwise?

Can't Prove a negative

Alex Lewis

9/27/2016 01:01:49 pm

Hey Rich, I was watching the recently aired Two part docu. about Jobenet Ramsey and what really happened. During the second part, Criminologist Laura Richards & Jim Clemente, a former FBI Agent that is an expert in Child Abduction and Child Homicides.

Clemente said something referring to The Ramsey case that is relevant in Z's case. This comment kinda reaffirms what I've been saying all along about Z's overstating or mentioning of the Park,

Clemente picks up on Jonbenets Brother comment of, quote "I was asleep. I always sleep really deeply and I can never hear anything."

In analysis of this comment He says: "Here He says 'Never' 'Really' and 'Hear Anything' that's overselling. He's trying to convince Schuler (interviewer) rather than just conveying that information. Typically, when We see that type of overselling, it's because the person is deceiving"

Link to the appropriate part: https://youtu.be/lpIB49V2izU?t=55m7s

Steph

12/5/2016 03:51:23 pm

Has anyone tried to contact Mr Anthony's wife Valarie or his kid Marc to see if they know anything?

Alex Lewis

12/26/2016 09:11:05 pm

No is the short answer Steph. Don't see how you could without causing offence, either. I mean
you can phone and try. . .

"Hi, I am looking to speak to a Ms Valerie Anthony l, widow of the late Xenophon Lusby??"

V.A: "Speaking"

Caller: "Oh, Great! Well I wish to speak to you regarding your late Husband being a serial killer called 'Zodiav,' and. . . Hello? Hello??"

Welsh Chappie

7/12/2018 03:51:48 pm

I won't say too much at the moment but, while I haven't contacted Xen's family to exquire about His possible ident by witness, I have contacted a different person who was there that night and is listed, by Name, in a police report. I won't elaborate at present as I really do not expect A response at all and if I do receive one, probably be to say they do not wish to talk about this, and then ask I do not contact them further. Here is a snippet of the message I sent not 30 minutes ago. . .

" Hi *Redacted*, I apologize for simply messaging You like this out of the blue and I will accept your response if you decide to tell me to please don't message yourself again.

The sole reason for My doing so is to ask you if you may know or could shed any light on the identification of a Xenophon Anthony back on Oct 11, 1969. I petitioned the Dpt of Justice who gave Me the non redacted document suggesting an eight year old witness had identified Him as 'Possible subject' responsible for Mr Stine's Murder.

Please allow me to again apologise in advance if this topic or event bring back negative emotion for you as this is certainly not my intention."

That's a portion of the message I have sent, I hope to receive a response and if I do, good bad or indifferent, I will let you all know.

Comments are closed.

Alex Lewis {Welsh Chappie)

"I am the same Welsh Chappie that resides in the NEWPORT Area of South Wales, a City that had this hit The Parody, Newport State of Mind recorded on Location in and around the City. My own site with all facts and info on suspect Lawrence Kane can be visited via this link".

"Eight yr old witness Identified Xenophon L. Anthony as possible subject in this matter."

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