A Zodiac with MBD?﻿

A Zodiac with MBD?

2/9/2016

This article was written by Alex Lewis (Welsh Chappie), whose own site detailing Zodiac suspect Lawrence Kane, can be found here.

For quite some time now I, along with a number of others, have been somewhat perplexed, confused, and/or astonished at the known behavior exhibited by Zodiac in specific relation to His last conformed murder of the Cabbie Paul Stine. In this outing, He was, it would seem, one of two things. Either this offender was completely arrogant to the point of it almost (and really, it should have) resulted in His own capture, or it was as a result of some sort of disorder. What actions or behavior am I speaking of specifically? Lets examine below:

Post trigger pull.

It would be, for most of us anyway, the most impulsive response should we have just executed someone in the middle of a 4 way intersection, to run like hell and get out of that area ASAP. We may expect our heart to be racing, our fear and anxiety levels to be elevated and be showing all the known signs of hyper vigilance. Not so with our Presidio Height Un-Sub. He, if anything, seemed to be the opposite of hyper vigilant and seemed almost undaunted and not concerned whatsoever about where He was, what He was doing, and the consequences if caught there doing what He was doing.

Zodiac was seen by witnesses to take time and make effort to relieve Paul of a portion of His shirt, literally taking the very shirt off the dead drivers back. He also seemed to take time to take out a white cloth and begin wiping down portions of the cab's interior dash area before exiting. Then, upon exiting, fails to scarper in a panic in favor of using the cloth to wipe down the exterior of the cab starting with drivers side, then walking around to do the same on the other.
While He has been taking time to do these chores, witnesses at the house directly across the street have taken the liberty to phone the operator to be patched through to the San Francisco Police Dpt. and report to this Law Agency that there is (as they witnessing the event believed at the time) a cab driver being robbed and possibly assaulted in the process also. Armond Pelissetti get's a radio Dispatch informing Him of this crime in progress and fortunately, Armond stated, "We were very close and responded to that corner, and were able to do so with Red Lights and Siren at 9:55 at night and got there very quickly."
It's my belief that Zodiac only walks away from the scene after hearing Armond do what He said He did, activate His emergency response lights and siren.

So He's gone, literally the witnesses tell Armond, "Just gone down The (Cherry) Street." After He walks off, Zodiac turns right at the following intersection onto Jackson Street, a street that offers a view for a good 2 miles easily as it does not bend nor curve, but runs straight. Upon this long & straight road, a second unit is responding coming up toward the location of Zodiac as He descends it and, for some reason that has always completely baffled me, He does not attempt to hide out of sight, ducking behind one of the many parked vehicles or turn into the entrance of a house or it's driveway to allow the cop car to pass Him by.....Not until the cop car is literally pulling up right next to Him on the side of the pavement.

This offender seems to be in, what we would refer to, a 'World of their own' and away with the fairies. We know He's arrogant and egocentric from His letters, but to the point of allowing cops to pull right next to you to see if you can convince them to please go away? Not for me. Turns out, I discovered, there is a medical condition that has symptoms absolutely consistent with almost everything He was seen to do that night, even down to his 'Lumbering Gait, Limp Like' walking motion He was said to exhibit. This condition is Minimal Brain Dysfunction, or MBD. Here is a rundown of it's symptoms:

"Minimal brain dysfunction was formally defined in 1966 by Samuel Clements as a combination of average or above average intelligence with certain mild to severe learning or behavioral disabilities characterizing deviant functioning of the central nervous system. It can involve impairments in visual or auditory perception, conceptualization, language, and memory, and difficulty controlling attention, impulses, and motor function. While MBD does not affect intelligence, it does have an effect on motor activity and attention span. Other symptoms that may be associated with the disorder include poor or inaccurate body image, immaturity, difficulties with coordination, both hyperactivity and hyperactivity, difficulty with writing or calculating, speech and communication problems, and cognitive difficulties. Secondary problems can include social, affective, and personality disturbances.

I am not saying I now fully believe Zodiac to be a victim of this mental impairment, but given what we know He did and the way He acted in response, you'd be a brave man to bet your house that He did not!

My personal reason to believe that the man Don saw on Jackson Street was, without question, Zodiac is. . .

Now Bryan's Attacker and Don's White Male Subject are wearing the identical outfit, this being a genuine coincidence that Bryan;s attacker and an innocent White Male on Jackson street both just happening to be wearing exactly the same clothing by random chance is beyond staggeringly against it being coincidence, and the most obvious, logical and realistic answer is,1 plus 1 equals two. One offender at Lake B and One At P. Heights both dressed identical equals same individual, or at least, two men dressed to kill as 'Zodiac.'

And finally, was the Stine murder premeditated or Spur of the moment? MyOpinion, based on His wearing His 'Kill outfit'....Clear pre-planned event.

Richard

2/9/2016 03:06:30 pm

Do you think Alex that Zodiac showed no urgency at the crime scene because he had possibly used a silencer and therefore thought nobody could have been aware of his crime. The police were made aware of a possible assault and robbery by the accounts of the three teenagers, But no assault happened, in terms of a confrontation. The kids stated they saw the Zodiac mid passenger side with Stine's head on his lap. How does this conflate into an assault, he wasn't punching the victim or wrestling with him. We also know that nobody would have shot a taxicab driver in the head, then rested the victim's head on their lap and thereby deliberately smother themselves in blood. Even Donald Fouke never mentioned blood all over the WMA in his groin area. The teenagers never heard the shot, therefore couldn't have heard raised voices, not withstanding Paul Stine was already dead. What drew their initial attention to the window. My problem with Zodiac fleeing the scene on hearing Pelissetti's siren, is that if Pelissetti was close by (estimated (30secs to 1minute), Zodiac if he fled immediately on the sirens being turned on, he had 1 minute headstart. That puts him at the top of Cherry when Pelissetti arrives at the intersection. That's fine, but in 1 minute Fouke has reached the intersection of Jackson and Maple, where he spotted Zodiac, but Zodiac cannot reach this area in 1 minute, it takes 3 minutes walking and in no conceivable way does it take Fouke 3 minutes to reach the Jackson/Maple intersection from Presidio Avenue/Washington St intersection. The only way Zodiac could reach the Jackson and Maple intersection in 1 minute so Fouke could spot him, is if he was Usain Bolt (so Zodiac may have been a BMA after all. Don't forget Fouke and Pelissetti both receive the initial broadcast at the identical moment. It takes Zodiac or anybody 3 minutes at walking speed to reach the Jackson/Maple intersection, Fouke bumped into Zodiac here, after his journey of only 1 minute. That means Zodiac had reached the Jackson/Maple intersection only 1 minute after the initial broadcast, which means he would have been half way down this section of Jackson Street at the time the initial broadcast was sent out, and therefore could not have fled the crime scene in response to Pelissetti's red lights and siren, because Pelissetti initiated his siren on receiving the initial broadcast.

Alex

2/13/2016 11:37:54 am

Ok I'll break this response down to answer individual points or questions...First, do I believe His lack of urgency could possible be due to use of a silencer? Personally, No. A silencer is useful for the amount of time it takes to pull the trigger, anything thereafter it itself becomes useless. A person can exit a home and walk right upon the scene by chance, or vehicle come by, dog walker or any other random chance encounter. This is not on 'A' street Rich, this is at A four way Intersection meaning there 4 times more likelihood of having someone stumble upon you as your doing your thing. So that's answer one. .....

Alex

2/13/2016 11:45:39 am

"The police were made aware of a possible assault and robbery by the accounts of the three teenagers, But no assault happened, in terms of a confrontation. "

Well the reporting witnesses saw a driver slumped and a WMA going through His pockets, they likely assumed He'd been hit or assaulted and knocked unconscious and was now being robbed by the offender. People always point to an unobstructed view at a clos proximity from the teens perspective but lets say we accept this idea, how can it be then that they did not see the excessive blood that would have been gushing down Paul's shirt considering they stated they could see Paul laying across the seats with, and this is the important bit, with the cab's interior overhead light on?

Alex

2/13/2016 08:48:48 pm

"Do you think Alex that Zodiac showed no urgency at the crime scene because he had possibly used a silencer..."

No Rich, to be honest I don't see shot's being audible or silenced of concern to this guy. Why? Well He didn't seem bothered or rushed at Blue Rock where He, to use Mageau's phrase, "shot me and shot me and shot me." And after He had shot him and shot him and shot him, casually walked back to his vehicle,calmly reloaded his un-silenced weapon, walked back and shot Mike two more times before aiming and firing a few more rounds at Dee.
Press report even declares He did not rush to His car to reload in a panic but, on the contrary, walked slowly with his head down, in a calm and collected manner.

It is alleged that The Widow of Eric elms stated Her late Husband was distraught and quite devastated when learning it was Zodiac He and Don HAD Stopped and told Her the guy showed absolutely no outward signs of being nervous or worried, He spoke to us in a calm, soft spoken tone without any hint of concealing guilt.

Alex

2/14/2016 01:57:36 am

"The only way Zodiac could reach the Jackson and Maple intersection in 1 minute so Fouke could spot him, is if he was Usain Bolt (so Zodiac may have been a BMA after all."

Stop it Richard I now have mental images of Zodiac stretching, doing start jumps, touching his toes all in an effort to loosen up before siren alert...."TAKE YOUR MARKS......SET......**GUN-FIRE** commentary "And it's a dreadful start by Un-Sub in Lane 3, shuffles and limping to the first hurdle and collides with obstacle prowl vehicle, really will be for the high jump if He doesn't buck up, what is this, hold on, Here he goes shuffling down the runway for His tripple jump attempt across West Pacific landing in the sand pit and it's....it's....falls off wall face first into W pacific tar-mac. Yes He's waving a white cloth like material on a stick now it appears as D. Fouke-This has just ran over his head.

Alex

2/20/2016 04:57:28 pm

Hey Mr G, I happen to watch an episode of 'Forensic Files' yesterday where the issue of a shot fired in Room 1 and what the immediate specific decibel level records at, and then going a room away with one 10 inch thick wood wall separating room 1 from room 2 and a shot was fired in room 1 again, and decibel meter placed in room 2 and the results showed that a round fired in same room records approx.. 120 - 130 Decibel. Moving one room away/over, closing door and recording the decibel level from a room away from the shot recorded between 70 and 85 which, they said, would wake someone a room away up. It would with a high probability, according to their scientific test findings, not be loud enough to be heard by residents close by with TV's on at 10pm specifically.'

The episode saw a woman claim she went to wake husband up in the morning after sleeping next door because of His loud snoring to discover He'd been shot in the head by a 9mm. She claimed she did not hear any shots fired, and nobody in the close by homes did either and so they did forensic sound tests and, results were as stated above.

I am impartial and not swayed either to believe or not believe the results mate, I am going to remain objective on this issue and I am posting this because it's results answering a question of how it can be that nobody heard a shot at Washington& Cherry if that was the location of the shooting.

Richard

2/21/2016 02:34:45 am

I too am impartial on this, the bullet that was fired here was a close contact wound that would act like a suppressor. Guns jammed up close to somebodies head would act to muffle the sound. Some people say that shots from inside the taxicab would be less distinct than outside, which is true, although in this case we have to factor in that 3 of the 4 large windows in the taxicab were open, as was the front passenger side little window. In this instance we would have to imagine the occupants of several neighbouring properties hearing absolutely nothing, so I am undecided on this matter, but the murder happening one block earlier carries some merit, considering the blood pattern on Paul Stine's shirt.

Alex

2/21/2016 03:39:56 am

Audible shots being fired heard by residents at or near that corner Rich is a point of interest if we can first establish that the residents were even Home when Zodiac and Paul slow to a stop at Wash and Che streets. Then, eliminate anyone in shower, running bath water filling bath, listening to alkman with earphone and all these extra potential reasons as to how and why shot was never report heard anywhere by anyone.

We can say we know Paul didn't get to that Intersection and apologize to His passenger before committing suicide. Paul was shot by Zodiac somewhere between The Westin and That final destination Paul unwittingly drove Himself straight into.

Alex Of Z Society Elite

2/21/2016 03:50:57 am

I've said before mate I wouldn't dismiss the idea that Z got in at or near the Westin and Paul 'evening Sir, so where will. . . . " an Z immediately dispatches The Cabbie pushing his bleeding body that is limp and slumped over down across the passenger seat as He takes the wheel to drive to his wanted location.

Yes, someone wrote the destination in Stine route planner log book thing, but Passenger X could have wrote that in a hand not Zodiac like.
It sounds like the tyoe of thing Z would gleefully do: Write Washington and Maple, and now off we go to Cherry to just to confuse WelshChap and throw another 'why' question into the mix, He he he he...."

See we must keep in mind Rich when we try and discern why this guy did this, did not do that etc, that we are trying to second guess insanity itself and insanity that thinks it's funny to watch people try and work 'Him' out.

Richard

2/21/2016 03:51:01 am

Or didn't drive himself into, if Zodiac was at the wheel.

Richard

2/9/2016 03:29:23 pm

Now if Donald Fouke had bumped into Zodiac at the west side of Jackson, just around the corner of Cherry, then your earlier theory of a meeting with Zodiac somewhere just by the top of Cherry or slightly further on, holds water. If Zodiac responded to Pelissetti's siren, then Zodiac would have reached the top of Cherry. In 1 minute Fouke is at the Jackson/Maple intersection. Zodiac then turns into Jackson and spots Fouke approaching. It is now too late to avoid Fouke by acting suspiciously, so he tries to act normal. In 20 odd seconds Fouke is now 3/4 of the way down this section of Jackson and Zodiac has walked 20 seconds into Jackson Street. This would explain your idea of a meeting closer to Cherry, in line with Robert Graysmith's claim, it also explains Zodiac directing Fouke up to Arguello Boulevard, while he can still see Fouke, and finally allows the idea of Zodiac fleeing the crime scene in response to Pelissetti's red light and siren. In other words this is the only way events can unfold with Zodiac reacting to Pelissetti approaching Washington and Cherry, then Zodiac fleeing. A meeting between Zodiac and Fouke could then only occur just around the corner of Cherry, possibly 5-6 houses into Jackson.

Alex

2/13/2016 12:53:46 pm

I think we have to conclude Rich that and Fouke encountered each other closer to J&C streets rather than the widely accepted J&M because Don originally states He went straight to Arguello Blvd and Zodiac states He gleefully watched the patrol car go around the corner as He had directed it to. By a process of elimination, it has to be Arguello. The only other scenario that fits is if Fouke is coming bk down Jackson after encountering AP and pulls up facing Maple and WMA directs them South, or right at the Maple Intersection up Maple toward Washington and this then would make a Z going into the Presidio more than plausible.

Ihave been mulling over this Rich and you know I stated it would make no sense at all for Z to direct Don and Eric around onto WPA if He knows He Himself is about to slip away via Maple into that very area....well, when thinking of Zodiac's actual words, if we assume He directed them to Arguello and observes them going around 'That' corner then His next statement would make little sense in stating He then 'Disappeared into the park never to be seen again' because He'd have to cross WPA to get to the aforementioned park and Don is now thundering down this road if it is, in fact, Arguello corner He refers to seeing them go around.

Alex

2/13/2016 12:59:12 pm

Zodiac only gives us 'The Corner as I directed them' and does not elaborate as to which corner He is referring to, and at what specific intersection. Neither does He say which direction on Jackson street the cop car came from as it pulled up, coming up Jax or going down? All He tells us is He Himself was walking down the hill, when all of a sudden as if from nowhere.....Puff of Smoke, a clap of Thunder and....patrol car appears. As I say in the article, surely if it's approaching head on He see's it coming a mile off!

Alex

2/14/2016 01:21:09 am

I am starting to give serious consideration Rich to Zodiac's cop car pulling up after coming down Jackson, opposed to up the hill. The facts that argue in favour of this idea....

- Z Stated: "As I was walking down the hill to the park this cop car pulled up & one of them called me over..."

- It is almost impossible for Zodiac coming down Jackson Hill to fail to notice a vehicle coming up it approaching Himself.
- Zodiac makes mention of one of the cops having to call him over to them, which a car coming up Jackson street would be travelling uphill in the right side lane with Z on North sidewalk which is right smack bang next to each other on same side of street and road. No need herein to call over to any 3rd party motioning or calling them over to your location.
- Cop Car coming down Jackson would give satisfying answer to how it were Z doesn't see it coming aswel as justifying the cop requiring calling over to The Zodiac because they are now on opposing sides of the street.

Richard

2/14/2016 01:37:33 am

I will answer this post using two of your statements
"It is almost impossible for Zodiac coming down Jackson Hill to fail to notice a vehicle coming up it approaching Himself".

Below you said:
"I guarantee you Richard this is a man who couldn't care if He is seen or spotted, He cant be Rich, otherwise He'd never have done what He did at Lake B".

He may well have seen Fouke from a long way off, but he just didn't care, much like he didn't care on the 4-way intersection etc. When and if Fouke called Zodiac over and got suspicious, it makes no difference, Zodiac would have shot them, they would have been sitting ducks.

Richard

2/14/2016 01:40:19 am

You said it yourself Zodiac was unconcerned by being spotted, so Fouke's blaring lights and siren would not have concerned him.

Alex

2/14/2016 02:05:35 am

Fair points Rich, I can only give the same as yourself Richie, my own personal perspective or opinion. I don't claim these opinions more likely correct or exceeding another's counter-opinion, and I will more than willingly state mate that your theory of a silencer is one I totally accept as more than possible.

It the way you see the situation from personal perspective, nothing more nothing less :-)

Alex

2/14/2016 02:19:46 am

And to be honest Rich, The Cop Car coming from Cherry swining right and descending Jackson Hill makes sense on almost every front where it's counter claim of Car Ascending he Hill does not.

Zodiac, if we take Him to be telling the truth of observing The Directed Cop Car go around the corner then He Himself turned down Maple and disappeared a blockand a half away then Fouke would be at the other side of Maple on W. Pacific Avenue by the time Z turns down the short walk to enter through the presidio wall on Maple. That simply cannot be accurate.
It would be far more reasonable & in the Z's own best self interest to misdirect the cop car Up Maple Hill toward and onto Washington St, while He turns the opposite direction down Maple into the presidio.

Cop car puled up & one of them called me over" declares the braggart.
But let's hold the applause and adoration a moment to ask... 'Called you over to them from where exactly?'
Are you not on North side of Jackson with right land occupying prowl car on same side? If the car stopped, the occupants wouldn't need to call to you to come over from anywhere on account of you already being right there next to the vehicle?

Richard

2/14/2016 02:34:08 am

I agree, if I was heading to the park, I would send Fouke down toward Washington, away from my direction of travel. Zodiac being on the north side has always been a problem, it is not natural to travel on the east side of Cherry and cross over to the north side of Jackson. Most ordinary folk would simply turn right and stay on the south side of Jackson away from oncoming traffic, unless as we surmised before Zodiac originally intended to travel straight up Cherry into the park, but something happened to changed his plans ie; people milling around, so backtracked into Jackson, now placing him on the north side.

MC A-lex Lewmish CBE

2/14/2016 08:20:26 am

"Zodiac being on the north side has always been a problem, it is not natural to travel on the east side of Cherry and cross over to the north side of Jackson"

Absolutely agree Rich, It would require Him to cross 'over to them' with the 'them' being a prowling Donny F ft Bind sensation E. Zelms of SFPD Massive, cummin at ya from Other Side of streets giving a shout out to their main Man 'Cause we're too incomp to stop and ask your Name so wont the real White Male please own-up, please own up, please own up, cause I'm with a PD and we don't know shit so won't you point me to a BMA, BMA, A BMA...."

Alex

2/14/2016 09:28:16 am

Just Inspector the SFPD Chiefs response if Armnnd & Shot-At-Qva-lee, oh good Lord may His career rest in pieces..... Head of cleaning up street Division, subtitled: Scooper of Shit Dpt. Assigned One lone Officer to Investigate criminal offences involving Sidewalk deposits left by K9.

I'm sorry Armond, but you cannot point a weapon at a man who has sold lots of cars. ... US National Anthem itself opens by declaring...
"Ohhhh say can't you see, never aim at Ka-Va-Leeeee..."

Do you know this man is a member of Bohemian Grove where they have a massive Owl thing? We're not messing about here Armond!

Alex

2/20/2016 08:44:47 am

Going back to the direction of travel of the Cop Car Zodiac claims stops and an occupant therein calls him over, it would make sense as alluded to above on a number of fronts for the car to be coming down rather than going up the hill but there is also that interview with Fouke that takes place in a vehicle on Jackson St where the interviewer opens His questioning with: "What did you see as you CAME DOWN this road?" Fouke then responds: "I saw an individual who was walking in the shadow of the trees at the time...." And then ends by declaring "I think I second guessed myself that night." Interviewer: "Should have questioned Him?" Fouke "Should have stopped and talked to Him.... But we didn't."

I just don't see Rich how, if the cop car is coming up Jackson, Zodiac doesn't see it coming way off as soon as it turns onto Jackson and allow Z to take evasive action way way before Don gets anywhere close to Maple.

Richard

2/10/2016 11:14:47 am

Another thing Alex, what triggered the three teenagers to look out of the window, they never saw the taxicab pull up. They never saw the Zodiac in the rear of the taxicab, so that leaves two options, 1. He was not in the back of the taxicab when it pulled up or 2. He was in the rear of the taxicab, and when it pulled up Zodiac shot Paul Stine and immediately entered the front of the taxicab. But let us assume the widely conceived way that events likely unfolded. When Paul Stine pulls up at Washington and Cherry, he shoots Stine from the rear of the taxicab, but the three teenagers do not hear this gunshot. Then Zodiac exits the rear right passenger door and enters the front right passenger door, then continues to tear the shirt of Paul Stine...enter the 3 teenagers at this point where they observe Zodiac mid-passenger side with Stine supposedly over his lap. If this was the scenario then the kids couldn't have been looking out of the window prior to any of the other events, as already noted. But it wasn't the gunshot that drew them to the window, Zodiac certainly wouldn't have been shouting at a dead man and most certainly the commotion, if any, was not louder than a gunshot. So did the teenagers just happen to go to the window at 9.58 pm randomly or did something trigger them to go there. If Zodiac used a silencer, that would not have caused them to look out of the window, if he didn't use a silencer, it's likely they would have heard that, unless Paul Stine was killed one block earlier. If this was the case as we have investigated before and Zodiac accessed the front of the taxicab pushing Stine into the driver side door and accessing the vehicle's pedals, not only may he have stalled the car and restarting it, necessitating the removal of the keys later, but as he approached Washington and Cherry, he most certainly hasn't got full control of the vehicle and screeches to a full stop. The taxicab isn't actually parked in a standard position, sticking out its rear end, as though it was parked hastily. I cannot believe this is standard taxicab practice. If the taxicab screeched to a full stop and this triggered the teenagers to look out of the window, then not only was Zodiac already in the front, but in a few seconds would have shifted over to the right side of the front seat and would have Paul Stine now in a prostrate position, this is when the teenagers would have just got to the window. Unless of course the teenagers were just drawn to the window for no reason at all, but from my experience you only usually look out of the window if you see or hear something, usually the latter if the window is above eye level. Something triggered those kids to approach the window and if it wasn't a gunshot, what else could it have been, other than the noise of a car pulling up.

Alex Lewis

2/14/2016 04:56:24 pm

Why they, or One of the three went over to that window and looked out could be no reason at all drawing Him to, just did.....Hears the Zodiac shut the cab door and youths curiosities want to know who that is, wonders who's out there. Could be the engine running, an engine of a vehicle coming to rest and not pulling away right outside the residence led to curiosity leading to a wander to the window.

I often do similar Rich as It happens hear a car stop, engine running right in front of my place, after a few minutes I will usually wonder who is outside just out of sheer nosey neighbour curiosity.

I mean you couldn't make the case details and sequence of events up in a non fiction screenplay as it would be too far fetched, non believable and outright laughable.

Here come two of SFPD's finest....They observe a WMA spot their vehicle.....immediately put his head down to act as one wishing to hide his face, then decides this isn't enough, must completely trun away from you and He having a face to face exchange and is now using shuffling lope to lurch side to side up the steps which are the closest available offer of travel direction change to avoid pig in prowl car and basically giving the two cops a visual definitio of what acting extremely suspicious entails to our Patrolman Don, Don who would later win an annual Police award, literally for not shooting man before arresting Him. He's nominated in My Cataggory of Most sytupid ironic idiot of the Year Award.' I've never seen anything lie it Rich...

A most laughable scenario: DF calls this man over who's just done everything He can to appear as suspicious as Humanly possible and ask this same man....

"Hold it, you there..... Sir, step over here a moment please. Sir!!0 Hands where I can see them, ....TY!...." WMA Approaches patrol car and then Cop asks. . . . .

"You uhhh, you haven't seen anyone acting shifty or odd Mate have you? Say.... past 10 mins or thereabouts??"

You can't make non-fiction event like that up & have it be believable because it's so F'ing ridiculous it is laughable.

He couldn't do anymore bar pulling the Jacket up and over His head to conceal His head & face to warrant suspicion and yet this is the man Don is going to ask has He seen anyone in the area that looked suspicious!

Then this guy replies...."Seen anyone I thought looked,,,,,,Well, now that you ask it's jogged my mind, Yes...YES I HAVE! 30 Seconds ago Officer A Man ran up this very hill, waving a pistol in the air like a nut case and frothing at the mouth as He went!

Now after this is the response by WMA at no point do either Don or Eric think....'Hold on a second, so you have just had a clear psychopath run past you, fully armed and foaming at gob and you saw us coming and the street and reasoned with yourself to walk away from the cops and forget your little frothing freak with Firearm?.

It's obviously just myself then that would be throwing themselves in the road to stop the cop to tell him of your looney gun waver nut case?? No?
.

Richard

2/14/2016 10:45:15 pm

"Why they, or One of the three went over to that window and looked out could be no reason at all drawing Him to, just did.....Hears the Zodiac shut the cab door and youths curiosities want to know who that is, wonders who's out there. Could be the engine running, an engine of a vehicle coming to rest and not pulling away right outside the residence led to curiosity leading to a wander to the window.
I often do similar Rich as It happens hear a car stop, engine running right in front of my place, after a few minutes I will usually wonder who is outside just out of sheer nosey neighbour curiosity".

That is my point Alex, the teenagers could be supposedly alerted by a car engine or door shutting, but don't hear a gunshot.

Alex Lewis link

2/23/2016 06:28:17 am

"That is my point Alex, the teenagers could be supposedly alerted by a car engine or door shutting, but don't hear a gunshot"

No very good point mate, Hadn't thought of it from that point or perspective.

Well we know these teens were said to be having some sort of a party, and as such, can we be safe to make an assumption that a teen and a party will inevitably mean music playing? If we can answer that in the affirmative then we now have a potential for music to muffle/drown out the shot fired and, as the song playing get's quitter as it approaches the song end fading into silence for 2 or 3 seconds before the net track on the ol' Record Player, *Clunk**and the recognisable vehicle door slam is heard drawing one or all over to the window?

'Why don't you or anyone else just go ask them why they looked out of that window' some will ask. Well therein lay the start of another little fact that makes little to no sense and is rather head scratching worthy and that is..... Their names have not become commonplace within our little alleged 'Zodiac Community' and if their names are knows and where they are today it seems non relevant because they have never, not one single time that I am aware of.

I can only assume that this is due to their own either unwillingness to come out of the woodwork to offer a comment or to confirm they saw what the reports say they saw nor have they granted any requesting individual request for an interview or even the most basic thing of confirming a claim that is out there or is missing something as false or inaccurate which, as far as general witnesses go is totally against the norm when you consider that all others are known to us and have, if looked for and asked to, been willing to speak about their involvement as a witnesses. People Like....

James Owen: Lake Herman Road witnesses who granted Morfs request for a one on one sit down interview,

Nancy Slover, she disappeared it seemed to most but Tom Void, to His credit, was persistent and eventually tracked her down and now we have on screen interviews with Her in the latter years of Her life before She did sadly pass away. She stated upon Tom finding Her and calling Her via Phone that she simply assumed that nobody either cared about the Zodiac anymore, or what She may be able to tell us about Him as being one of a number of people that you can count on One Hand that ever spoke to the man that History only knows by the Moniker 'Zodiac'.

But, obviously, it could be a simplistic issue of 'Them not wanting anything to do with people like me prodding them & keeping on and on at them with "Oi, You! Tell me again what you saw! I care not that 93 people have asked and you subsequently have already given the scenario in answer 93 times this week alone.....You have not told me yet, so.....I'm Listening" :-)

Richard

2/10/2016 11:47:25 am

Zodiac obviously had some sort of mental instability, normal people do not go around killing strangers and what you describe is plausible. Zodiac was not a master genius, he was largely aided by the forensics of the day and a fair sprinkling of police incompetence, particularly at Presidio Heights. But if, and it's a big if, that if Paul Stine was shot with an unsuppressed weapon at the intersection, within yards of many houses, in a built up area, even a moderately intelligent man, as Zodiac was, would not hang around the crime scene for 90 seconds to 2 minutes, carefully tearing a strip of Paul Stine's shirt, removing keys, money and wallet and then wandering around the car dusting off fingerprints. You get the hell out of there. The only logical reason he hung around for an extended period, is if he thought he hadn't been spotted and had used a silencer OR he had shot Paul Stine at the previous intersection, assuming therefore he had time on his hands. Imagine you Alex are going out, with prior knowledge that you are going out to kill someone in a built up area. You either leave immediately after the shooting or use a suppressor, homemade or otherwise. For the sake of a few hundred dollars or execution, I know which option I would choose. Besides this man supposedly knew the constructs of a working bomb, attached a flashlight to his gun for sighting purposes, supposedly prepared for Presidio Heights using airplane cement bonded to his fingertips, yet couldn't construct a suppressor and just blasted a taxicab driver in the head yards from houses, where telephones were readily accessible for any number of witnesses, only to then hang around the scene dilly dallying around for an extended period. However he hadn't banked on the three teenagers and simply got lucky.

Alex

2/13/2016 03:45:39 pm

Well with this specific condition Rich, Minimal Brian Dysfunction, it not only has Zero impact on the individual's intelligence but, as stated, is usually associated with average to above average intelligence.

It reminds me of 'He's Nut's, no He's a Genius' argument. There is a fine line between true Intellectual and Nobel Prize winning Genius and just completely mentally Ill. Issac Newton we acknowledge as 'Sir' today because of His Brilliance in Mathematics and Theory of Gravity, all while being the poster boy for belief in Alchemy.

MBD could see someone with very high intellectual functioning while having no social skills and total lack of impulse control along with an extremely impaired ability to retain focus & attention.

A prominent symptom is immaturity. Makes no logical sense nor has understandable reasoning for you and I to grasp even the concept of a highly educated man with extremely high IQ loving nothing more to make the odd comment akin to a immature 6 year old child.....kinda like

"Haha Pig, I rubbed your face in your boo-boo's Hehehe."

Alex

2/13/2016 04:57:40 pm

Rich I may have to differ with you on your point of: "The only logical reason he hung around for an extended period, is if he thought he hadn't been spotted and had used a silencer OR he had shot Paul Stine at the previous intersection, assuming therefore he had time on his hands."

Well if He's hanging around on an assumption He has made of "I don't think I have been seen by anyone...." then I would submit He could assume this for the next 3 hours too? Dismiss Armond's siren as 'Must be for some other emergency as I, I am sure, have not been observed."

Na Rich I cant see any reason or pointers to believe this concept that His using a silencer is what He is using as a basis to simply assume no witnesses have seen what is happening in the several minutes following his pulling the trigger.
That's borderline Zodiac hanging around based on 'Wishful thinking' in that being His reason to believe nobody had spotted him and the crime.

Alex

2/13/2016 06:33:58 pm

Rich I totally see why your thoughts are turning to a silencer in PH, I see why and where your coming from with suggesting it and your theoretical question of:

"Imagine you Alex are going out, with prior knowledge that you are going out to kill someone in a built up area. You either leave immediately after the shooting or use a suppressor, homemade or otherwise."

I would absolutely agree, yes, I would. But that is Me and you Rich, would you decide to pick a location in daylight hours, a fairly populated general area with many passing boats to don a sinister hood, stand completely exposed on an island pointing a gun at your would be stab victims? Why take such a massively high risk of having a boat sail into view as your tightening the victims bindings?

I guarantee you Richard this is a man who couldn't care if He is seen or spotted, He cant be Rich, otherwise He'd never have done what He did at Lake B.

Richard

2/10/2016 12:05:53 pm

Have you ever considered Alex why Zodiac took a piece of Paul Stine's shirt at this location in a built up area, but never opted for this measure at Lake Berryessa, instead making the phone call and writing on the car door, despite having ample time. Also consider the reasonably large piece of shirt he removed, as though he deliberately planned to have enough shirt to use in several of his correspondence, as opposed to just the October 13th letter. It allowed him to verify several letters without question. He did the reverse at Berryessa taking his writing to the crime scene. Knowing he was going to remove a section of Paul Stine's shirt prior to the crime meant forethought, seemingly incompatible with not using measures to facilitate this ie using a silencer or murdering Stine at an alternative location and moving the taxicab.

Richard

2/11/2016 10:01:37 am

Below I have reconsidered my opinion somewhat, it's one or the other at least.

Alex

2/13/2016 03:55:00 pm

"

2/10/2016 20:05:53

Have you ever considered Alex why Zodiac took a piece of Paul Stine's shirt at this location in a built up area, but never opted for this measure at Lake Berryessa,"

Yes Rich, even pointing out that Bryan threw His wallet at The Hooded Intruders feet where it was promptly ignored by Hooded Man as He walked off leaving it on the Ground.

It's a good point to make that Rich because I cannot come along and argue: 'Well we know Serial's often take a momento from a scene as a trophy etc etc' in regards to Zodiac and Cabbie Killing because you can refute this idea and claim of mine by asking "Why He didn't do this at the other scenes also if He's a Trophy Killer, Bryan threw His wallet and Car Keys at Z's feet and He ignored them.

Hey Rich I never looked at it like that before. In Pacific Heights He took from Paul the exact specific things He was offered by Bryan two weeks before and showed absolutely no interest in taking, The vehicles Keys and Victims Wallet!

Alex

2/14/2016 01:34:38 am

"Have you ever considered Alex why Zodiac took a piece of Paul Stine's shirt at this location in a built up area, but never opted for this measure at Lake Berryessa?"

Many-a-time Mr G, yes. Maybe Rich its the most logical answer to why he took a swatch of bloody shirt from Paul, that being, up to this point the infamous Zodiac Killer of the Bay Area had, without exception, targeted and attacked young couples in public places. Maybe He knew that they were sceptical of His bragging announcement declaring Himself 'The Murderer of the teenagers last Christmass at LHR and the Girl on 4th July.

I can only theorize He envisaged a letter declaring This is the Zodiac Speaking. I am the murderer of the Taxi Driver over by Washington streets and Maple streets last night, to prove this, please take my word for it" would be dismissed out of hand citing not Zodiacs MO, pointing out the Zodiac is known to target young couple to the exclusion of all else!

He saw the question before it was asked and answered in evidence before someone demanded it of Him.

Richard

2/11/2016 09:53:23 am

I'm sorry Welsh but I can't help thinking something is wrong with the idea that Zodiac parks his vehicle somewhere in the vicinity of Jackson and Maple or WPA, then hops on a bus to a predetermined location, such as the Westin St Francis Hotel, calls a taxicab from a payphone to return him back close to his vehicle he has left in wait, in order to commit murder. If it doesn't look like a duck, swim like a duck and quack like a duck, then it most certainly ain't a duck. This scenario is too far fetched, yet we contemplate that the crime was pre-planned because of the shirt removal, it was his premeditated goal to grab a souvenir. I don't believe the crime was pre-planned anymore. In his first three attacks he specifically targeted young high school kids. He knew of the lovers lane areas and scoured them for specific targets. At Lake Berryessa he pre-prepared the rope and costume. But the Presidio Heights affair was not only in a built up area, but it was a lone male taxicab driver aged 29. I know serial killers can alter their victim selection, but the whole thing feels wrong, right down to having to walk a considerable distance to access his vehicle. The Westin St Francis call is supposedly just a random area he chose to start his journey from. My guess is this area is significant to him, a theatre link, the hotel itself (as I explained in my recent article was frequented by homosexuals, who used the restroom). In view of his possible theatrical leanings, this area is awash with theatres. He possibly worked here. But who gets a taxicab to take them to their car, it sounds a bit far fetched. In view of the victim profile, the risk element, it now appears to me this was a spur of the moment killing and the shirt removal was an afterthought. It doesn't appear a very well executed plan to shoot somebody within yards of somebodies front door and then hang around like a dumbass for an extended period, if it was planned.He could have directed Stine to a secluded area to murder him, take the shirt piece, then take control of the taxicab and park it in a high profile area for maximum publicity and exposure, then leave immediately. But according to the teenagers he appeared to be fighting with the driver, although all he was probably doing was removing the shirt piece here. Why take all these risks at Presidio Heights when all of them were totally unnecessary. Because the Zodiac probably hadn't planned it, right down to his cock up at Washington and Maple that forced him on one block further.

Alex

2/13/2016 11:26:04 am

Hey Rich, just come back since writing this and see you've pewsted several comments and/or questions. I am going to read and then respond to them individually. Appreciate your feedback Rich, and I shall respond now starting with the first initial response above . . .

Alex Lewis

2/13/2016 04:22:03 pm

The Crime for me Rich shows evidence, circumstantial as it may be, of a premeditated and planned attack. The grounds to believe this is most likely Rich is what Don said the Suspect He observed was wearing matching almost identically with Hartnells description of His attackers clothing. I'll add the descriptions to the article above.

Alex

2/13/2016 06:40:31 pm

I also think He opted for a cab driver this time after appearing to be trampling back & fourth up and downthe banks and shores of Lake Berryessa searching for potential Victims for at least an hour.

Plus it takes on an extra Sinicism I think, phoning and ordering up a victim to come to you save you having to find one. Like a lazy man who can't be bothered to go cook food today, He'll simply order some to be brought to him. Zodiac and His new 'Dial-A-Victom' methodology.

Alex C. Ontroversial Esq.

2/13/2016 06:25:59 pm

"I'm sorry Welsh but I can't help thinking something is wrong with the idea that Zodiac parks his vehicle somewhere in the vicinity of Jackson and Maple or WPA,"

Where is that from Rich, I've never claimed or been a supporter of having a waiting getaway vehicle parked anywhere in Pacific Heights? I've even used Son of Sam David Berkowitz as example saying He (or His vehicle) was traced back to Himself after it was ticketed on a street two blocks away from a SOS Shooting.

Alex

2/13/2016 09:07:19 pm

"At Lake Berryessa he pre-prepared the rope and costume."

Yep, then spent hours wandering around being observed by witness after witness trying to find a suitable place and potential victims and, finally,as evening closes in.....

This discussion has come up many times, a 'methodical planner' vs 'opportunistic random' killer & I think He's neither, but a slice of both in that He goes out planning on killing, but the victims and location are that of opportunity.
He can pre-plan to kill at Berryessa all He wants, unless He knows people personally going out there that He's planning to kill, His very best of plan is 100% reliant on a victim or victims presenting themselves. It's akin to me telling you Rich I have a methodical and detailed specific plan to win the Euro-Millions Jackpot on the weekend. My Best laid plan is not worth the hypothetical paper its laid out on because everything is reliant on if my numbers turn up and match the 6 random ones drawn that day.

That's why I think two weeks later He decided 'Fk that again, I shall guarantee easy victim in my place of choosing this time by ordering a yellow cab...."

Richard

2/14/2016 02:23:20 am

We know Alex there is a shortfall in time to the phone call at Napa. It doesn't take 70 minutes to reach the Main Street car wash. Do you think he ditched the blooded knife and costume en route. In the past I looked at Lake Hennessey, which is not far from Lake Berryessa, being similar in design, parking areas, picnic spots, lovers lane areas. I think we can both agree he had likely visited Berryessa before and if he was a fisherman or hiker and knew the area, he certainly knew Lake Hennessey to the west. A trip here in relative seclusion after the Berryessa attack, to hide the weaponry and blooded clothing can be done without prying eyes, then continuing on towards Rutherford and south to Main Street takes approximately 70 minutes, as opposed to the direct route. I suppose my question after all the babbling is do you think he ditched the costume and knife prior to the phone call, the same day or kept hold of them all for a period of time. Can you resolve this 40-50 minute journey taking 70 minutes, accepting that Zodiac was correct with the time when he wrote on the car door.

Alex

2/14/2016 04:44:11 am

Maybe He simply hid not only the hood, knife, gun andholster etc, but also took the liberty of hiding himself, also. Waiting quietly for the fuss of emergency response cars to come ploughing into the Berryessa area before He then pulls away inconspicuously. He knows Rich I have to assume that if He's making an escape at same time Cops are respnding to His just having done His thing, then both Cat and Mouse are set on a collision course by default of there only being one road in, same one road out of LB.

Why not hang around just until sighting the cops and ambulance arriving before you leave? Less chance of an unwanted cop car spotting you, radioing to a vehicle half a mile back behind itself requesting it block the road and stop a lone WMA in His vehicle coming toward Him.
15,20 or almost half hour after the event, well any car then can'tbe Him, He'd surely be long gone by now.
Napa Sheriff Dave Collins suggested with the time-frame subsequently discovered, at some point the Zodiac came down the road passing Himself going into Napa to make a phone-call to Mr Slaight.....although Dave Collins doesn't remember seeing the Fleeing absconder bombing past himself.

I despair with the police in this case and think sometimes Zodiac could be coming down that Road, 4 to 5 MPH, the hood showing Gigantic high visibility green Cross-Hair and 'THIS IS THE ZODIAC DRIVING.....HEY BLUE-MEANIE PIG, HERE I AM!" And they'd still proceed to drive straight past him.

Alex

2/14/2016 11:30:53 am

Rich I almost can't believe my own eyes with the printed comment/quotes from none other than One Toschi, David in black & white newspaper. This Rich made me almost made me question my eyes work correctly when reading the following. . . .

"His Work (DT's) South of Market drove the S&N Killers underground or out of the City, but Toschi says, He think they're still here. Similar to cae and point is Toschi's involvement in 'The Doodler Killer' of the mid 1960's. Toschi says He has someone who knows whothat killer is and Toschi knows this too but He says, due to this man being a closeted-Case (Gay man in closet He means) and due to this man's position in society, He will not reveal who this person is" end quote.

Alex

2/14/2016 11:34:06 am

Apologize, He actually specifically said "Will not reveal who the killer is" un-quote not who person is, but A definition of assigned identity that of, 'killer' specifically.

Alex

2/14/2016 11:40:33 am

Is 'That person' who knows the name of This 'doodler' killer aged around Six, lives in Presidio Hgts and informed the SF police Dpt. of such info?
If this is a reference to Z case Rich, and Toschi did make these remarks (Can't see how He could not have, published claims of a certain (Frmr Insp. Toschi) if it is made up case Tosch could, likely would , actually, almost certain to, file civil lawsuit for defamation of Character.

Richard

2/14/2016 01:42:12 pm

As with a lot of crimes in San Francisco, if they are committed against gays, or as in this case the informant is gay, then the victim or informant were less likely to come forward in the 60's and 70's. Police used to routinely persecute gay people, with police using the park to bait gays, often beating them down, knowing they would not take it to court on account of the publicity. It's not a reference to the 8 year old.

Richard

2/14/2016 01:46:17 pm

But the idea of Zodiac being homosexual is not an outrageous thought. The police routinely persecuted the LGBT community and the papers routinely published homosexuals names and addresses to shame them. It seems a good enough reason to me to harbour great anger to the police, journalists and the San Francisco Chronicle.

Richard

2/14/2016 12:31:51 pm

Where did you get this information, can you provide a link Alex.

Richard

2/14/2016 12:36:55 pm

From Wikipedia on the Doodler Killer "At the time, activist Harvey Milk publicly expressed empathy for the victims who refused to speak with police, stating "I understand their position. I respect the pressure society has put on them." Milk elaborated that the three men likely feared damaging relationships with family and also in the workforce, citing that he believed only "twenty-to-twenty-five percent" of the eighty-five thousand gay men in San Francisco were open about their sexualities."
Jose Sarria had close ties with Harvey Milk.
http://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/what-a-drag

Alex

2/14/2016 01:03:32 pm

Well I first saw a reference to David Toschi and a rumoured informant that it referred to as 'The Crusader' on a criminals Identity. I instantly assumed this was an Alias for a single informant, similar to or alike that of 'Red Phantom' for example.

Googled 'Dave Toschi and The Crusader' only to discover that the crusader is actually the name of a newspaper written specifically for the Gay Community.

They hailed Toschi as A Great Hero for His very serious attempt to apprehend the responsible party for a series of hate crimes against Homosexuals etc. And, that's what led me to the story and/or article. Link I shall email you via AOL...

Richard

2/14/2016 01:47:27 pm

Thanks Alex, got it.

Richard

2/14/2016 01:00:29 pm

Not saying the Doodler Killer is anything to do with the Zodiac, because he was supposedly black. I also doubt he was given this nickname immediately after the first crime, which was "At 1:57 a.m. on January 27, 1974, a corpse was found at the water’s edge on San Francisco’s Ocean Beach. Gerald Earl Cavanaugh, 49, had been stabbed multiple times. His left hand betrayed a defensive wound. His body was, as the coroner’s register put it, “in a supine position” and showed signs of slight rigor mortis"
Strange that 2 days later after this murder Zodiac should send his first correspondence for 3 years, with a doodle at the foot of the letter. The world is full of strange coincidences.

Alex

2/14/2016 06:19:29 pm

The kPerson and His Miniker here is close to the most comical name given a killer by the press, but nothing will ever surpass the Serial Attackers name that, upon hearing itn said by the Narrator of a Crime show did literally, not hypothetically, actually caused me to burst into giggles was "The Cops know this was The Mo of the infamous.....Bedroom Basher!

Well that tickled me and I felt an air of sympathy for the owner of this moniker, 'GREEN RIVER' GARY.....BTK KILLER.....HILLISIDE STRANGLERS....DC SPIPER.... SAN FRAN ZODIAC...AND MOST GIGGLE ENDUCING YET TRYING TO BE TAKEN SERIOUS .......THE BEDROOM BASHER!

See, how can this not be amusing!!!

What are the FBI's statistics again, anywhere from 50 to 100 Serial's active at any one time in the United States? ut that stat in hald instantly if all press agencies di this kind of 'dubbing'

Another young woman became the latest victim last night of the man the press call, 'FREEKYFACED FLASHER'

Richard Ramirez wouldn't be seen as satanic ad evil if He'd been christened the "THE SISSYBOY SLAYER' I guarantee you. He'd have stopped after 3 attacks.

Comments are closed.

Alex Lewis {Welsh Chappie)

"I am the same Welsh Chappie that resides in the NEWPORT Area of South Wales, a City that had this hit The Parody, Newport State of Mind recorded on Location in and around the City. My own site with all facts and info on suspect Lawrence Kane can be visited via this link".

A Zodiac with MBD?﻿

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A Zodiac with MBD?