ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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WAS ZODIAC CLAIMING DONNA LASS TWICE BY USING INVERTED TEXT?

10/18/2024

 
PictureDonna Ann Lass
If the Zodiac Killer was the abductor and murderer of Donna Lass from the Sahara Tahoe Hotel on September 6th 1970, then one might have expected him to claim or insinuate her murder in his next communication, the 13-Hole postcard. Despite later suggesting his involvement in her murder on March 22nd 1971 when the Pines card was mailed, he never increased his victim count from the July 26th 1970 "Little List" letter to the 13-Hole postcard on October 5th 1970 by the Zodiac Killer, which spanned her abduction. Or did he increase the victim count and we simply didn't recognise it? The Pines postcard and 13-Hole postcard both contained punch-holes (suggestive of victims), both contained pasted text, and both carried inverted wording within the postcard. The inverted phrase of "around in the snow" on March 22nd 1971 was clearly referring to the murder and burial location of Donna Lass, so where was the reference to Donna Lass in the inverted text on October 5th 1970?

The construction of the October 5th 1970 postcard may have began just over two weeks after the disappearance of Donna Lass, because all the newspaper cuttings identified on the postcard were sourced from the Oakland Tribune, San Francisco Chronicle and San Francisco Examiner (all separated by only 9 miles)  The cuttings were taken from publications dated September 23rd and 25th. 

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On the day the 13-Hole postcard was mailed, a newspaper article by The Orlando Sentinel carried the headline "Zodiac, Killer Of 5 or 13, Silent As Police Wait". The 13-Hole postcard carried a cutting of the number 13 and used the word "police" in the inverted text - so was this section of text giving us a clue to the total victims killed, which now included Donna Lass? The text read "There are reports city police pig cops are closeing in on me. Fk I'm crackproof. What is the price tag now?" Could this have been cryptic in nature, just like the Pines card mailed 5 1/2 months later, telling us surreptitiously that he was the murderer of Donna Lass and reading "There are reports city police pig cops are closeing in on me. Fourteen killed I'm crackproof. What is the price tag now?" In other words, responding to The Orlando Sentinel headline of "Zodiac, Killer Of 5 or 13" on October 5th 1970 (or earlier newspaper that carried the same or similar question).  

​It would mean that the main body of the postcard was reiterating the victim count from the Little List letter on July 26th 1970, but teasing us with the cryptic clue of "Fk" to suggest that there were now "Fourteen killied" in total. This may have been repeated when the Halloween card arrived 22 days later, on October 27th 1970, when he added 13 "floating eyes" to the card, but added the number "14" on the hand of the first skeleton, placed "4-TEEN" atop of the second skeleton, and used the letter "F" once again in the strange symbol at the foot of the card (and on the envelope). The "F" in "Fk" on the 13-Hole postcard may have denoted the number fourteen. The "F" in the strange symbol on the Halloween card may have also denoted fourteen, by combining "Z" and "F" to give us "Zodiac Fourteen". The four dots giving us a clue that "F" meant fourteen. This would mean that the Zodiac Killer gave us two cryptic clues containing the letter "F" in a span of 22 days. The Zodiac Killer could also have added the 14th punch-hole of his career to the Pines postcard, to make up for the one he deliberately withheld from the 13-Hole postcard on October 5th 1970. A postcard in which he decided to use "Fk" instead. But did the Zodiac Killer specifically invert his text in two postcards to represent one victim? That of Donna Lass.

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chris
10/18/2024 07:37:46 am

I always wondered if FK related to the Friant Kearne Canal. The FK canal.

Richard
10/18/2024 07:47:34 am

I suppose it depends on whether a body was found there, or the area of Fresno had any relation to a possible suspect. But if the murderer lived in the Bay Area it's a difficult sell.

Richard
10/18/2024 07:52:56 am

Whenever Zodiac used "crackproof" he was suggesting that his identity would never be discovered and/or he would never be caught, That is, caught with respect to his murders. So I would expect that if "Fourteen killed" isn't coorect, the "Fk" would be relevant to his exploits.

chris
10/18/2024 08:24:38 am

Donna Jo Richmond was found next to it. I believe another victim was also if I’m not mistaken. Although Donna was found there a few years after the known Zodiac crimes. It makes me wonder if this was a dumping ground.

Richard
10/18/2024 09:23:04 am

I see that Oscar Clifton killed (was convicted of) Donna Jo Richmond's murder on the day after Christmas in 1975.

chris
10/18/2024 09:31:53 am

Oscar clearly didn't murder her. Joseph James DeAngelo is almost certainly responsible. The people over at the 12-26-75 website and podcast have put a rock solid case together on it. And some in LE actually agree.

Paul C.
10/18/2024 08:50:44 am

Love or hate Morf's suspect William Andrew, super-researcher "Andrew" on Tom Voigt's site established from newspaper articles that Andrew lived next door to the business (Pizante Music) where Donna Lass' namesake cousin-in-law (Donna Lass) worked - he was living there and she was working there when the Pines Card was written. To say next door understates it, the business shared a wall with Andrew's family apartment. Whether Andrew was Zodiac or not, this is pretty remarkable.

Richard
10/18/2024 09:14:02 am

Yes, that is pretty remarkable whether or mot Andrew is the Zodiac. If McDuff was about 16 years older I'd like him a lot more. We know that coincidences do happen, but that is one of the better ones, if that's what it is.

Rubislaw32 link
10/18/2024 09:43:23 am

''Fk = Fourteen kills'' - I like that, Richard, and not seen it before.

''Fk'' is bound to be literally duplicitous (?), in keeping with the Zodiac's need to tease.

I had settled on ''Fk = F*ck knows'' - but probably no one single solution.

''F*ck knows I'm crackproof ''.

Richard
10/18/2024 09:57:27 am

I didn't know whether to go with Fourteen killed, Fourteen kills or Fourteen killings. I guess it doesn't really matter Rubislaw. I wanted to bridge the gap between the Pines card and 13-Hole postcard because of the punched holes and inverted text. Fuck knows is certainly something worth considering. I prefer that to an abbreviation of fuck.

Richard
10/18/2024 10:02:44 am

I know we differ on the victim in the Pines card, so I suspect any linking of the cards through Donna Lass is a moot point in respect to your beliefs.

Rubislaw32 link
10/18/2024 12:06:04 pm

The difference of opinion isn't a problem, Richard, since the likelihood of 2 agreeing on absolutely everything is remote. For your wider readership, I believe the Pines card is Zodiac authentic, but refers to Judith Hakari, as opposed to Donna Lass.

Just on possible coincidences: Some believe that the Zodiac's ''special signature'' on the Halloween card is derived from the ''Bat symbol'' found at Bat Creek, Tennessee. Albeit out on loan, it is owned by the University of Tennessee, Knoxville.

Both the Zodiac and his victims at Lake Berryessa, Bryan & Cecelia, accessed the fateful crime scene spot, via Knoxville Road.

I am currently plugging the notion, found in the Rev Billy Graham FBI files, that the Zodiac's numerical confession for his murders was made to the IRS office at Knoxville TN, on May 27th 2009.

Tri - Tetra = 7. Tri (3 times before declaring himself Zodiac) - Tetra (4 times after declaring himself as Zodiac) = 7 (seven murders in total).

So - three Knoxvilles stacking up to ''not very much'' ?

Rubislaw32 link
10/18/2024 01:48:25 pm

Anyway, if any of your readers happen to be interested in a possible Zodiac confession, then access Rev Billy Graham FBI File 2, Page 244.

What one is viewing is a collection of words & phrase doodles, collected and superimposed as if they appeared together.

The accompanying letter appears to start: ''Dear Mr Taxman, please tell Robert Graysmith if he wants to be my friend, he had better come across with my Top Secret manuscript I wrote in May of '87 - ''Confidential''. Tell Dr/Rev Billy Graham that I need to talk to him...'.

Myrta
10/22/2024 04:05:23 pm

Is the working theory that Mac knew (Pizante) Donna Lass and met (Tahoe) Donna Lass during a visit at the music store...and if so, did he travel to the Casino to abduct her? I'm doing my best to connect the dots lol.

Paul C
10/22/2024 04:42:34 pm

I don't think Z (Mac or somebody else) had anything to do with kidnapping Donna Lass from Tahoe, but the 1971 Pines Card and the 1974 Christmas card to Lass' sister could have been Z taking advantage of the crime to cause mischief with the police/media and torment the family over a three year period. If Mac was Z, having a personal connection to the Lass family could certainly explain his affinity to a crime he didn't commit.

Myrta
10/22/2024 08:17:39 pm

Thank you, Paul C. That seems a lot more plausible than what I was imagining.

VT_Squire
10/18/2024 10:13:41 am

Call me pedantic if you like, but if you're going to refer to other letters according to their postmark (as you do with the Halloween card in this article) then you should do the same here.

It was postmarked on the 6th, not the 5th. You're just conflating materials that the killer pasted on the card for fact, and that's just plain silly. https://imgur.com/a/just-no-6GnzHaI

Richard
10/18/2024 10:21:31 am

No, that is fine. The 13-Hole postcard was dated the 5th by the Zodiac.

VT_Squire
10/18/2024 11:29:32 am

Clearly.

My gripe here is that it leads to this situation where you're saying things that are materially false, seven times in this article alone.

For example: On the day the 13-Hole postcard was mailed, a newspaper article by The Orlando Sentinel carried the headline "Zodiac, Killer Of 5 or 13, Silent As Police Wait".

Well, that just isn't true.

Moreover, since the article you are mentioning here was published on the 5th while the card wasn't collected until PM on the 6th, it's a near-certainty that the opportunity to construct this card based on the article was present... i.e., a hoax.

Richard
10/18/2024 12:02:58 pm

Unfortunately I am used to your gripes after 12 years, because you are a product of Voigt - two people who just pursue an agenda of smears against people. I reiterate what I've said to you before: if you gave just one or two compliments in amongst the endless negative criticisms you aim my way, I might almost think you were fair minded, but you are incapable of ever saying anything positive. Like the Voigt sycophants who you once swam with in that goldfish bowl of misinformation, it appears that the mindset you've acquired from that forum is difficult to shake, In answer to your statement, if Zodiac dated the postcard on the 5th, it could have been mailed on the 5th and received and postmarked on the 6th. So it could have been mailed on the day he read The Orlando Sentinel. What has that got to do with a hoax. The postcard may have been finalized using the newspaper article.

Do you really want me to dig up some of your presentations on Tapatalk and Reddit and tear them to shreds, or are you confident that you are correct 100% of the time. I suspect you believe the latter. I really don't mind you pointing out mistakes, but you constantly claim I'm deliberately trying to mislead. I'm obviously not perfect like you.

Richard link
10/18/2024 12:27:24 pm

Oh dear, didn't take long. Reddit quote
"Going back at least over 13 years, there had been discussion of the Halloween card having some type of stickers on it, possibly Valentine's day themed".

There have been discussions on two stickers within the Halloween card, but the majority of correct ones spoke of stickers contained loose within the communication, not stuck on the card. I hope you weren't trying to mislead the Reddit users. Shall I continue. .

Richard
10/18/2024 12:33:26 pm

Oh dear, another one on Reddit, quote:
I also found it odd that it happens to line up numerically when you start counting out the number of confirmed Zodiac letters.

July 31 1969 = 1, 2, 3

August 1969 = 4

Oct 13, 1969 = 5

Nov 8 = 6

Nov 9 = 7

Dec 20 = 8

Apr 20 1070 = 9

Apr 28 = 10

June 26 = 11

July 24 = 12

July 26 = 13

Oct 27 = 14 <----and now the marks on the Halloween card also make a different kind of sense

March 13 1971 = 15

March 22 1971 = 16

Jan 29 1974 = 17

You are seemingly just accepting what communications are genuine, based on handwriting analysis decades ago, where no two document examiners can agree with each other. Maybe you should do some research and not just accept what Voigt tells you.

Richard link
10/18/2024 12:53:58 pm

By the way, did you manage to mention to Voigt to stop lying about when the SLA communication was postmarked, or did you just overlook this glaring error for years.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/letters-from-the-zodiac-f159/

Richard
10/18/2024 12:57:51 pm

Did you manage to point out this further error on his website "In 1999 a retired detective revealed to me that a former Zodiac investigator had admitted to forging the Lass postcard". Maybe if I wrote it maybe you would. Shall I continue?

VT_Squire
10/19/2024 01:09:49 am

If you had a problem with something I said in the past, you should have brought it up to me in the past. Presently, the topic is the 13-hole postcard. It bears an October 6th postmark. San Francisco evidently collected mail on Sundays, save for holidays. Refer to the Nov 9th 1969 letter if you need an example of mail collected on a Sunday, and the disparity of the October 13th letter referring to the murder of Paul Stine as "last night" if you need an example of an error in dating occurring exactly where it would be predicted... on a holiday.

If you want to discuss Tom or other threads or criticisms, sure. But last I checked, those aren't on-topic, and I'm fully capable of staying on the topic of your article.

chris
10/18/2024 01:08:52 pm

VT squire recently made a fool of himself on Reddit in a big way. And at least acknowledged part of it. But only part of it.

Richard
10/18/2024 01:43:21 pm

That must be a first. He really doesn't get what I'm trying to say, that I don't mind him pointing out mistakes and errors - we all make them. However, If I picked out the last 200 mentions about me from VT Squire and lower than Celsius room temperature IQ Voigt, you will find 199 negative comments or smears from these two individuals. That is called an agenda, not fairness. I say 199, because I found one comment from VT Squire that grudgingly through gritted teeth liked something I wrote on the 1987 letter. But I had to go back to the Neolithic Period to find it. I don't mind criticism, but I can spot a deliberate and persistent biased criticism formed from a dislike towards an individual, rather than the merit of their argument or work. I've attempted to draw a line in the sand with Mr Squire, but sadly he's not interested.

Rubislaw32 link
10/19/2024 12:17:59 am

For the Netflix Zodiac docuseries, debuting on Oct 23rd, I see that a 4th star has been revealed: Don DiStefano - a retired Bay area homicide detective, now a private eye.

DiStefano officially joins journalist Rita Williams, writer Robert Graysmith and Zodiac internet ''doyen'' Tom Voigt in the up-to-date line-up. A recent Daily Mail expose on Voigt has cast doubt on his projected appearance . But with only 4 days before the 3-part series starts, no changes yet announced.

Jibberjabber
10/20/2024 02:34:10 am

Slightly off-topic, but I have just found the article on Donna's disappearance as reported in the Chronicle on Sep 26th 1970 which you write about in your brilliant article on the pines card here:

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/lake-tahoe-disappearance.html

Previously I had only found the disappearance mentioned in another SF paper, and I believe it was on something like page 7 (could have been even higher page number) I do not remember their being a photograph and I do not remember it mentioning other similar case of Judith Hakari.

By contrast, the Chronicle article is on page 3 and has everything the other article was lacking.

I had initially wondered why Zodiac would hoax a claim to what I thought was an obscurely reported missing nurse at Lake Tahoe, but seeing how higher profile the article appears in the Chronicle, I now think it was not an obscure article.

The fact the Chronicle article also references the still unsolved Hakari murder, I now think this was a juciy chance for a hoax if Zodiac wanted to use it as such.

I am not saying Zodiac did or did not kill Donna Lass and Judith Hakari, just that it has more potential for hoaxing as the Lass disappearance as reported in the Chronicle is quite an eye catching article.

The Pines card is definitely Zodiac, the 2 murders are still unsolved and Zodiac waited 7 months to hint at having a hand in the dissapearence of Lass.

The potential for Zodiac to have hoaxed involvement in the Donna Lass case to me is now at Warp 9 (but he also could be the genuine killer)

Rubislaw32 link
10/20/2024 03:32:18 am

Interesting, and clearly meticulous research from you, Jibberjabber.

Judith Hakari's disappearance and subsequent discovery of her body in a shallow grave at Weimar - was well covered by The Sacramento Bee. Largely on account that Judith had been a Sacramento resident.

My personal opinion has always been that the Zodiac was neither responsiible for the murder of Judith , nor Donna.

But, in his ''blame game'' terms, Judith was his focus, with regard to the Pines card - an actual body, which happened to be Judith's. And, this I surmise because of the coincidence of retrospectively known 1st Zodiac suspect William Grant, owning a luxury chalet as his weekend retreat, at the village of Weimar. i.e. Zodiac blaming Grant for Judith.

Jibberjabber
10/20/2024 03:49:07 am

Thankyou R32 but I am reinventing the wheel!

Richard wrote about all this years ago, I am still playing catchup and a lot of these articles pre-date me having an interest in the case.

Every day is a Zodiac school day

https://www.zodiacciphers.com/zodiac-news/a-tahoe-mystery

Rubislaw32 link
10/20/2024 04:15:03 am

''Every day is a Zodiac school day''.

Wise words, Jibberjabber - I consider it a bad day if I don't learn something new. Curiosity and humility are the keys.

Of course one sees the odd exception to this, like those who have been around since 1998, and thought they knew it all, immediately. Discarding letters like empty crisp packets, simply on the basis that those letters had yet to be authenticated, and had nothing to do with an instantly adopted pet suspect.

Keep up the good work . Curiosity rules O.K.

jorge
12/8/2024 03:19:57 pm

the post card " THE SKELETON" is in reference when ZODIAC was a LITTLE LAD AND witness of a murder, a woman, ZODIAC KILLER is INSANE, matter what you say, ZODIAC TOLD ME, the F.B.I. in LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA LET HIM GO! IAM ANGUER! BUT HE IS ALIVE.


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