ZODIAC CIPHERS
Richard Grinell, Coventry, England
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TOM VOIGT - THE SORRENTO CONNECTION

7/26/2019

 
PictureTom Voigt
Although I am doubtful of a Zodiac connection to Riverside, Tom Voigt (from ZodiacKiller.com) is correct in suggesting that the Riverside murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30th 1966, being our 'ground zero', could open many doors in discovering the identity of the Zodiac Killer, where tangible evidence was recovered from the victim's hand and floor of the alleyway. Identifying commonalities between Zodiac crimes and Zodiac victims could be invaluable in narrowing down our search for the infamous Bay Area murderer. While understandably cautious about the two tips he received regarding a link between Cheri Jo Bates and Cecilia Shepard, it is a lead certainly worth pursuing amid the uncertainty of a viable DNA fingerprint. Just like geographic profiling, if we can tie the Zodiac Killer to a specific location through two victims, then many further doors could open.

PictureCecilia Shepard 1966 Yearbook photo
In the April of 2019, Tom Voigt received an email stating that Cecilia Shepard and Cheri Jo Bates were known to one another - often frequenting the popular Sorrento Italian Restaurant on Magnolia Avenue. This corroborated a previous tip he had received fifteen years ago, thereby adding credence to the possibility the two girls knew each other. In 1966, Cheri Jo Bates was a student at the Riverside City College, whereas Cecilia Shepard attended the nearby La Sierra University, just 4.6 miles east of the infamous Corona crosshairs, where Joseph Bates (father of Cheri) worked as a machinist for the Corona Naval Ordnance Laboratory. Corona used to hold car racing around its city center in the early 1900s, primarily because of the unique layout of its streets, incorporating Main Street, East Grand Boulevard and West Grand Boulevard which formed a perfect circle. It was originally called South Riverside and is widely known as 'Circle City.'

The Sorrento Italian Restaurant was located at 9844 Magnolia Avenue. La Sierra University was located at 4500 Riverwalk Parkway, one mile north of Magnolia Avenue, with the Riverside City College at 4800 Magnolia Ave. The Italian restaurant just 2.5 miles from the grounds of La Sierra University. Tom Voigt makes an interesting connection to the November 29th 1966 'Confession' letter in which the author concludes "I am not sick. I am insane. But that will not stop the game", and reminiscent of the "dangerous game" he played out in the Bay Area. Tom Voigt hypothesised on whether there may have been an element of truth in the author's frankness, deducing that the only psychiatric facility available in 1966 was the Riverside General Hospital University Medical Center (founded 1893) and located at 9851 Magnolia Avenue, virtually on the doorstep of the Sorrento Italian Restaurant. Tom Voigt concluded that if the Zodiac Killer was responsible for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates and received any treatment for a mental illness, then it's perfectly conceivable he received this treatment across the road from the Sorrento Restaurant - and may have visited the restaurant himself. Placing two victims and the Zodiac Killer in the same room would obviously turn the search for the infamous Bay Area murderer on its head, albeit layered with a degree of cautious optimism.

PictureCheri Jo Bates
After 25 years of chasing the Zodiac Killer and many blind alleys, the link between Cecilia Shepard and Cheri Jo Bates (although still has to be conclusively proven) has invigorated Tom Voigt in his quest for the identity of the Zodiac Killer and bolstered his belief that the Riverside murder of Cheri Jo Bates on October 30th 1966 and the Bay Area murders are inextricably linked. Did the inception of the Zodiac Killer begin on Magnolia Avenue, ultimately taking the crosshairs of Corona to his correspondence in the Bay Area and the "road races" of Presidio Heights, just under three years later? Tom Voigt is determined that the journey has only just begun.

To visit the forum thread pertaining to this subject, please visit the Zodiac Killer message board. Tom Voigt has also released a 14 minute 32 second Youtube video outlining other material regarding the suggested connection between Cecilia Shepard and Cheri Jo Bates.

Picture
art
7/26/2019 11:24:23 am

Richard, a reminder that you have a link to one of the forensic DNA reports showing that Riverside has a mtDNA profile from what they believe to be the killer of CJB (since RPD used that profile to exclude at least one suspect). All maternal relatives of the killer would have the same mtDNA profile as the killer. Is it feasible that records are available for patients of that mental hospital during that period?

Richard
7/26/2019 12:08:55 pm

I am sure its feasible, but the problem is getting access to them if they still exist. Confidentiality issues usually surround such records. This is probably better answered by somebody from the USA, who has better knowledge of the law than me. But certainly the mtDNA could be used to exclude certain subjects in the case. If the killer of these two girls moved in their circle of friends and was at one time "brushed off" by both because he was a little weird, it may add some credibility to the Confession letter. It did after all state "May'be she will be the beautiful blond that babysits near the little store and walks down the dark alley each evening about seven". Did Cecelia Shepard babysit for extra cash while studying. Was there a little store near her University by an alleyway - or near the restaurant. Maybe the statement "she is not the first and she will not be the last. I lay awake nights thinking about my next victon" had some personal relevance. I never really thought that Confession letter was by the killer, moreover somebody just parroting the newspapers, but I have never truly dismissed the author as the killer. But if the Zodiac Killer had targeted Cheri and Cecilia from his knowledge of them from Riverside, how do we square their murders alongside the murders of Faraday, Ferrin, Stine. Did he know them all (which is extremely unlikely) or did he just enjoy killing people he knew or didn't know. If he was mentally ill, then the question is difficult to answer.

Richard
7/26/2019 02:53:47 pm

The hospital at 9851 Magnolia Avenue now Lowe's Home Improvement.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/9844+Magnolia+Ave,+Riverside,+CA+92503,+USA/La+Sierra+University,+4500+Riverwalk+Pkwy,+Riverside,+CA+92505,+USA/Lowe's+Home+Improvement,+9851+Magnolia+Ave,+Riverside,+CA+92503,+USA/@33.9145852,-117.4536687,321a,35y,39.34t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m20!4m19!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcb0cb9f141ef7:0x8d8a404f37bbc01c!2m2!1d-117.4524734!2d33.9162307!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcb7063c624d7b:0x74904fd47bf1044e!2m2!1d-117.499085!2d33.9112212!1m5!1m1!1s0x80dcb0ccbe0e53a9:0x200504c5cf34e4d0!2m2!1d-117.4545376!2d33.9178863!3e0

Richard
7/26/2019 03:03:59 pm

La Sierra University Notable alumni: The term 'Notable alumni' refers to distinguished graduates of the La Sierra University who have excelled in a particular field of expertise. The names of highly successful, previous students of the La Sierra University are Fritz Guy, Katherine Siva Saubel, David Pendleton, Steve Wohlberg, Darwood Kaye, Bill Emmerson, Rene Noorbergen, Chauncey Hare, Cecelia Ann Shepard.

https://www.colleges-and-universities.education/colleges-in-california/la-sierra-university.htm

Richard
7/26/2019 03:12:41 pm

Here are the yearbooks from the University, including 1966.

https://archive.org/details/lasierrauniversity

https://archive.org/details/meteor1966lasi/page/n3

Shawn
7/26/2019 09:24:38 pm

"The Sorrento Italian Restaurant was located at 9844 Magnolia Avenue"

I saw an advertisement for a Sorrento Restaurant a few months ago (from the 1950's/1960's) when Tom first put this info out. It could have been from a Yearbook.

The address I found (which I have yet to find again) was different than the address Tom gave. Placed the restaurant more toward Corona.

Currently at 9844 Magnolia a Korean BBQ restaurant is located. Looks like it was built in the 1960's including its oriental design. Not saying it could not have been Sorrento's before that.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/9844+Magnolia+Ave,+Riverside,+CA+92503/@33.9167402,-117.4528258,3a,37.5y,168.03h,89.35t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sWbJ1F59IOqwfFYne9tJomA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192!4m5!3m4!1s0x80dcb0cb9f141ef7:0x8d8a404f37bbc01c!8m2!3d33.9162307!4d-117.4524734

Richard
7/26/2019 11:08:40 pm

There may have been two, but I know on page 2 of the forum the Korean restaurant appeared to be using the same billboard as Sorrento's.

Richard
7/27/2019 02:25:54 am

Can you find the Corona Sorrento's Shawn?

BB
8/6/2019 05:28:17 pm

Sirhan Sirhan
Was asked why he was in Corona on June 1, 1968.
He said because he liked the scenery.

Roger
8/7/2019 04:41:05 pm

So you believe one of Sirhan's stories. There were many, so which one do we pick?

Sirhan Sirhan was grasping for alibis and tried to confuse the authorities by providing several different stories at different times relating to his whereabouts on the days leading up to the JFK assassination.

The LAPD found contradictions in Owen’s testimony as well, but they found many contradictions in Sirhan's testimony. Sirhan denied ever knowing Owen for starters, which was of course an outright lie.

Sirhan first told Kaiser that he was home all day on Sunday June 2 and had not gone to the Ambassador Hotel that day – but he later “remembered” that he had driven out to Corona because he "liked the scenery" there. Eventually Sirhan admitted that he had indeed gone to the Ambassador, to a Kennedy rally, that evening. Sirhan had also apparently lied to his brother, telling him he had not gone to the Ambassador but had stayed home.

On June 3rd, Sirhan changed his own story on his movements that day three different times. First he was home all day; that was his Mother and brother’s story as well, with Adel Sirhan saying he had asked Sirhan and that “Monday he was here all day long. All day and all night long. He was here Sunday also. That’s what he told me.”

So we only have the word of a family member which is not witness testimony - it was merely just based on the word of Sirhan Sirhan.

Later Sirhan himself admitted that he had gone to Corona on both June 2 and June 3rd. However Sirhan later admitted that he had not gone to Corona, but to “some place in that direction.” Still later he told investigator Michael McGowan that he had put 350 miles on his car that day so nobody could have known where he had gone.

Personally I would not trust a single thing Sirhan said about his actual whereabouts on those days.

Roger
8/7/2019 07:42:48 pm

edit: not JFK, I meant his brother, RFK.

BB
7/26/2019 03:00:35 pm


Richard - Another good one sir!

The thing clinches it for Zodiac being linked to Riverside - in the
Confession letter where he says he made a phone call to the police.
Just like NoCal Zodiac - SoCal Zodiac accompanies his crimes with a phone call.

Also, this connection to Corona heaps up the circumstantial evidence to an insurmountable thing. This corona/Corona connection is entreating.
The Sun's corona is the outermost part of the Sun's atmosphere.
Reaching temps of 6000 degrees.
This big circle on the ground in the city of Corona really is ground zero.
Lending to the notion of relationships to stellar bodies and the constellations.
The Zodiac was interested in astronomy as well as astrology.

And now that we have ground zero - this case must heat back up.
This Bate's naval connection is very suspicious. That whole shadowy world will take a lot of people doing a lot of research. I hope this connection will inspire others too. It is blowing my mind. This Zodiac case is way too big - to be just one guy. Perhaps he did not want to be recognized by Shepard at LB. And, therefore he had to wear the disguise. WOW!

Richard
7/26/2019 11:14:53 pm

I always wondered BB if the murderer of CJB lived or worked in Corona, possibly alongside Joseph Bates, and knew Cheri through her father. The Corona crosshairs being some form of inspiration for the origin of the Zodiac symbol. Originally they had no kink in the road and formed the perfect crossed circle.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/index.php/2009/07/27/corona-california-the-city-that-doubled-as-a-race-course/

Richard
7/27/2019 02:04:47 am

Perhaps this person with mental health issues drove an oxidized Studebaker, that may have been mistaken for the Tucker Torpedo allegedly parked behind Cheri Jo Bates' Volkswagen Beetle. Earwitnesses described an old car starting up shortly after the screams from the alleyway.

Shawn
7/27/2019 10:07:37 am

"Can you find the Corona Sorrento's Shawn?"

I have been keying in the same search terms (I think) in google and not getting the AD, from either a newspaper or yearbook for the late 1950's I think.

I remember looking at the address I found at the time on google streetview, It was a beige color building not far off Magnolia? Rd. and there was an old 1 story mom and pop aquagreen color like motel across the street. Probably one of the few remaining in the area.

I will continue to search.

BTW.... I did post my finding in real time chat at

https://us21.chatzy.com/THEZODIACKILLERHCHATGROUP

A real time 24/7 chatroom dedicated to Zodiac Killer chat. But the room has been cleared many times since I posted.

J D
7/27/2019 06:30:42 pm

Hi Richard. Certainly intriguing developments. There appears to have been a number of Sorrento's restaurants and variations on the Sorrento name, in such places as Van Nuys and Fresno, etc. In January 1966 9844 Magnolia, Riverside was listed as a business opportunity, as a Drive-In and Italian Restaurant.

While intriguing that the hospital was across from Sorrento's, I tend to think his statement, "I am not sick, I'm insane" was theatrical hyperbole on his part. But one never knows.

Richard
7/28/2019 02:01:18 am

Yes, I tend to believe it's just theatrical language and there are parts of the Confession letter that are plainly untrue, such as "I first pulled the middle wire from the distributor. Then I waited for her in the library and followed her out after about two minutes. The battery must have been about dead by then". This makes little sense regarding the 10:15-10:45 pm screams. On the flip side, it's an interesting observation in a case bereft of many new leads. Everything is worth exploring despite the probability he attended this mental facility being slim.

Shawn
7/27/2019 07:30:58 pm

The Sorrento Spaghetti Plot Thickens?

At least in 1957 there was a Sorrento Restaurant at 1420 Main street in Napa.

https://ibb.co/HNk59Sk

Zodiac made his call regarding the attacks on Cecelia and Bryan from a pay 500 feet away on same side of street at 1235 Main Street.

Richard
7/28/2019 01:53:55 am

"The Sorrento Spaghetti Plot Thickens?". It certainly does.

Shawn
7/28/2019 05:48:30 am

I'm hoping to not go on a "Spaghetti Incident?" tangent.

Throughout the 1960's and 1970's there was a "Sorrento Restaurant and Pizzeria" at 314 (PI) Columbus Ave. in San Francisco. Still a Pizzeria to this day. "Pizelle Di North Beach"

1960's Sorrento Ad example https://ibb.co/gFg5b3p

When Zodiac called Police after the Blue Rock Springs attack he (oddly?) directed police to "If you go one mile east on Columbus Parkway to the public park". For some odd reason Zodiac interjects Columbus Parkway without just saying "go to Blue Rock Springs Park".

In September of 1970 there was a fire at 314 (PI) Columbus Avenue.
At least one report claim the fire started in the basement of "Sorrento Restaurant"

"A four-alarm fire Tuesday night caused $100,000 in damage at the basements of Sorrentos Restaurant and Rays Tavern in the North Beach district. The Dante Hotel also sustained minor damage in a fire fought by 125 men."

The next month, in October of 1970, the Zodiac mailed the PI (314) clue laden "Halloween Card".

************
Oh Yea, I was probably mistaken by a "Sorrento's" being in Corona Because the AD i was looking at was not complete and oddly short worded. There is also a "Magnolia", a few miles away in North Hollywood but is "10842 Magnolia Blvd" instead of "Magnolia Ave" as found in Riverside.

Not the original worded address I saw here....Villa Sorrento Restaurant, 10842 Magnolia Blvd., North Hollywood.

Oh yea the "Spagetti Incident?"

https://www.culturecreature.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/guns-n-roses-spaghetti-incident.jpg

Mr. Brownstone
7/28/2019 07:51:15 am

Hmmm... and it was at the bottom of ‘The Spaghetti Incident’ album cover that Axl Rose includes a message enciphered in Z-408 symbols.

https://www.culturecreature.com/guns-n-roses-spaghetti-incident-zodiac-killer/

Richard
7/28/2019 12:55:04 pm

Thanks for the extra information, this is turning into only 'one slice short of a pizza'. 314 Columbus Avenue less than a mile from Union Square. Wonder if the Napa place was there in 1969. You could have a roving business owner - although a long way to go yet!

Richard
7/28/2019 03:52:54 pm

Just a little extra info - Sorrento Restaurant at 2064 Treat Blvd, Walnut Creek, CA 94598. Don't know if it was there back in the 1960s, but it is situated 1.7 miles from the once address of Elaine Davis. Not particularly relevant, but thought I'd add it to the mix.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/158+Pioneer+Ave,+Walnut+Creek,+CA+94597,+USA/Sorrento+Italian+Restaurant+and+Pizza,+2064+Treat+Blvd,+Walnut+Creek,+CA+94598,+USA/@37.9253023,-122.0472871,13.75z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x80856173cb134607:0x11647f2ed5b49feb!2m2!1d-122.0655876!2d37.9254442!1m5!1m1!1s0x80856101ead081c3:0x3055a2149b785a3a!2m2!1d-122.0398824!2d37.9298574!3e0

Richard
7/28/2019 01:04:25 pm

Did Tom place this on IMDB

In 1966, Cecelia Shepard and Cheri Jo Bates used to occasionally frequent a Riverside, Cal. eatery called Sorrento Italian Restaurant. Together. As friends. They knew each other. It was verified that Shepard and Bates were BOTH attending college in Riverside at that time; Bates at Riverside City College, and Shepard at nearby La Sierra University. At the time of her murder, Cecelia Shepard was a fifth-year music major in college.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm10818805/bio?ref_=nm_dyk_trv_sm#trivia

Gerald
7/29/2019 07:55:33 pm

This tends to support my long-held suspicion that there are many things about this case that law enforcement have never told the public. After so many years, what possible harm could come from the knowledge Cecelia and Cheri Jo may have known one another?

BB
8/5/2019 02:56:18 pm

The statute of limitation on murder is forever.
But there in all intents is a limit of a sort.
Archaeological and historic criteria for something to become
actually historic is 50 years. In essence this includes human
remains. Thus - as historic as this case is now 1969-2019 -
come 2020 we should now take it out of the hands of state and
law enforcement, and start treating it as a strictly scientific matter.

Richard
8/5/2019 03:31:56 pm

It likely is nothing more than a scientific murder in most peoples eyes now BB - with DNA. The problem starts is if you could match a suspect to several letters with DNA, that only proves he licked the envelopes and/or stamps, but it doesn't prove he wrote the contents of the letters or cards. He could claim he just licked them, nothing more, and likely any good lawyer would argue such a case. The murderer likely did lick the stamps and envelopes, but proving they were the killer is something else entirely. This isn't a GSK case, where the murderer and rapist left his bodily fluids all over California.

Isn't the statute of limitations 5 years for extortion in California. Surely this is what the Zodiac letters would fall under. Therefore, the Zodiac couldn't be prosecuted for the communications he mailed, only the murders he committed, for which there is unlikely to be any DNA found. You would have to inextricably link the DNA on the communication, to the content of the communication and then to the murders. I think the Zodiac case is effectively unprosecutable.

Shawn
7/30/2019 07:08:09 am

Continuing with the victim connection theme....

I watched the late 1980's Sally Jesse Raphael show again which had Pam Huckabee on it (Darlene's sister) at 1:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEilZL2JTUw&t=110s

Pam makes a lot of way out there statements.

She states that Darlene was killed because Darlene witnessed Zodiac killing Cheri Jo Bates.

She also states that Darlene knew Betty Lou Jensen. (I believe through babysitting)

BB
7/31/2019 09:40:02 am

Shawn

Darlene witnessed Zodiac killing Cheri Jo Bates

This time line had her with Jim Phillips when they lived in LA in 1966

Mo
8/5/2019 07:55:06 am

Assuming he knew and targeted Cecilia, how would Z have known that she and Bryan were going to LB? Maybe he followed them, but wouldn’t Bryan have noticed someone was behind him?

On the other hand, did Z wear a hood because Cecilia might recognize him?

Richard
8/5/2019 08:48:06 am

I personally don't believe Cecelia Shepard was targeted or followed, because Zodiac was too busy with his sights on the three women from Pacific Union College. He targeted Shepard and Hartnell for no other reason than they were there when he passed by.

Mo
8/5/2019 11:13:13 am

Yeah, but how did he know the Karmann Ghia belonged to his victims. He either saw them get out of the car, or knew something of them.

Richard
8/5/2019 12:22:14 pm

There are several possible answers [1] he saw them exit the vehicle [2} The lake was very quiet that weekend and the vehicle and couple were the only ones by Twin Oak Ridge that evening, so it wasn't difficult to connect to two [3] When Brian threw him the keys, they may have had a vehicle logo, or [4] he didn't know the Volkswagen Karmann Ghia belonged to the couple, but suspected it was. If it was the wrong vehicle, I suspect the real owners would have reported it anyway. If they didn't, then it didn't matter, because he made the phone call just in case. If the vehicle hadn't been discovered he may have wrote a letter. As you stated earlier, nobody noticed somebody following them, and a witness to Hartnell's vehicle at 5:15 pm saw no vehicle trailing the couple. Plus, Zodiac was north of the Twin Oak Ridge area when they arrived and likely was parked 0.8 miles away, so couldn't have trailed them. Basically, there is not one shred of evidence they were followed, it is just something drummed up in peoples minds looking for a more sensational story.

Roger
8/6/2019 05:44:03 pm

To my thinking this was a crime of opportunity. For the victims, it was a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes, the rangers did say that it was a quiet weekend. Zodiac may have seen the couple in the vehicle or departing it, or walking down the hill through the trees as he drove past, or he may not have. We can only speculate. All we know is he was probably in the area scouting for victims at the time. The three women he had sighted earlier most likely presented too many problems for him. Perhaps he was about to leave the lake disappointed and drive away, but then he happened upon the parked Karmann Ghia.

I understand that the island that Bryan and Cecelia walked down to was fairly well known as a "quiet spot" for couples. Anyone familiar with the area would have known this. If someone familiar to the area had seen the car parked at that particular location along the road, it would not have taken very much intellect for the Zodiac to realize that someone was nearby and had most likely walked down towards the lake shore. He may have even taken a peek inside the car and could tell from the contents that a couple were involved. If they had just recently departed, Cecelia's perfume may have still been lingering for instance. And believe it or not, scent does linger. So the Zodiac follows their track down towards the lake until he spots them. This scenario makes perfect sense to me, but some people seem to have trouble with it, mostly because they are trying to prove the Zodiac was a stalker who knew his victims. But the jealous ex-boyfriend theory never seems to hold much water in the Zodiac case.

Some online sleuths would have us believe that Cecelia, Darlene, and Cheri Jo were best friends who regularly hung out together and they had all managed to jilt the same ex who was out for revenge or they "had to die" to cover up his identity etc. But I have never been presented with any definitive proof of this and until such time I will refuse to believe it.

Richard
8/7/2019 01:40:52 am

It absolutely was a crime of opportunity, as was the Stine murder, along with the Vallejo and Benicia crimes. Not one shred of evidence has ever been produced suggesting that Stine was targeted or Cecelia was followed. But the will to make the story more provocative and exciting often trumps what we actually know. There is a plethora of circumstantial evidence pointing towards Lake Berryessa being a Zodiac crime, from the carefully crafted costume that a copycat had no reason to design (a paper bag, balaclava would have sufficed), then just write on the door and make the payphone call. The carefully stitched Zodiac emblem and well designed costume obviously showed this was important to Zodiac. None of which was necessary for a copycat. While not a great advocate of handwriting analysis, there is not greater evidence this handwriting wasn't Zodiac, over the notion it was. Just saying, I don't think the handwriting is Zodiac is effectively no argument whatsoever. Stating that the phone call could have been done by a copycat parroting a similar message to Blue Rock Springs, is not providing anything to say it wasn't Zodiac. Just stating an option without providing anything substantial to back it up is meaningless. People say that Berryessa crime was not in Zodiac's character. He had committed only two crimes so far under the Zodiac umbrella. The only MO we could possibly place upon him at this juncture is an attack on couples, which Berryessa was. But how on earth can people consider an MO after only 2 crimes and boldly assert that any crime that deviated from these two, therefore couldn't be Zodiac. If we applied that template, then we may as well just dismiss Presidio Heights as a Zodiac crimes. If the Zodiac had committed his crimes in reverse, the same logic would automatically rule out the first two crimes. Utterly flawed logic. The very people dismissing Lake Berryessa on MO would never have accepted PH if not for the fact Zodiac admitted it. So what evidence do we have for the copycat at Berryessa - absolutely zero. But regardless of this fact, people flatly refuse to accept it could be Zodiac, despite the phone call, writing on the car door, the carefully crafted costume, the "by knife" writing/Halloween card and the statement "I am the same man who did in the people in the north bay area", which includes the Napa area. Their argument - I think it was somebody else, but I'm not going to provide you with any shred of evidence to justify this claim. Just claiming that somebody could have copied the payphone call style of Zodiac and imitated the handwriting is not a legitimate argument to use. The equal counter argument, is to say I think that somebody may not have copied either. Not very compelling. It's like the argument - somebody could have entered the morgue and stolen a piece of Stine's shirt. It's a possibility, but without providing any valid reasoning or proof that any such action occurred, is just playing "I kicked over the sandcastle" because I could routine. Placing the proverbial spanner in the works just for the sake of it. At Lake Herman Road ten casings were documented at the crime scene and eight bullets recovered. Most people accept 10 shots were fired, but let's play the naysayer game and say Zodiac only fired 8 shots, and threw to previously fired casings from two days ago, onto the ground to confuse investigators. This is possible - and this is the game played by the naysayers at PH and LB, who fail to back up these alternate hypotheses and provide less evidence than the current evidence and arguments already given for it being a Zodiac crime. But rest assured, these tired old tropes will continue unabashed, similar to Zodiac was smothered in blood like a Friday 13th film when he left the Stine taxicab, the Zodiac got his directions wrong in the payphone call at BRS, the SLA letter was mailed on the 14th and Zodiac bragged about the murders. The myth is stronger than the truth.

Roger
8/7/2019 07:50:31 pm

Only Lake Berryessa holds water. The copycat theory for Lake Berryessa holds none. :-))

BB
8/7/2019 11:35:11 am

That's true Richard
The myth is stronger
There's the problem

KayElleSF
8/14/2019 06:21:16 pm

Richard, excellent defense of Zodiac as the LB perpetrator. I dont know why people are dead set on rewriting the Zodiac "narrative" except to say it has become fashionable to deconstruct established history in these modern times. Could be related to the insidious cultural marxism that has slowly seeped into all facets of society.

Richard
8/14/2019 10:33:41 pm

The same thing is done with the Stine murder KayElle, despite the shirt piece being mailed. I don't mind something being questioned, but if this is the case, at least the idea should be better than the original version and backed with some realistic observations.

Sigmund
8/15/2019 01:36:05 am

And here I was thinking it was due to the insidious cultural conservatism that has seeped into all facets of society today. :-)


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