THE TIMING OF THE BERRYESSA PHONE CALL

3/2/2025

If the Zodiac Killer had correctly signed the car door at Lake Berryessa at approximately 6:30pm (only a few minutes after the attack) and traveled immediately south to the payphone at 1231 Main Street, Napa, the journey time from this area of the Knoxville Road to the payphone is about 43 minutes. Allowing some leeway of 40 to 50 minutes (and no stops on the way), the Zodiac Killer should have arrived at the payphone between 7:10pm and 7:20pm, thereby making the call to police 20 to 30 minutes earlier. However, he made the call at 7:40pm, so where did this time go?

In a previous article a new timeline was examined courtesy of Zodiac contributor Jibberjabber, where the Zodiac Killer left the car door at about 6:07pm and walked 0.8 miles north, to be spotted by Dr. Rayfield & Son at around 6:30pm by Smittle Creek Day Use Area (where the "voyeur" was spotted by the three women earlier that day). "Dr Rayfield stated that about 6:30 pm the previous evening (September 27th), he and his son had parked their car north of Park Headquarters and noticed a white male adult subject walking in the area, described as about 5'10", heavy build, wearing dark trousers, a dark shirt with red in it, long sleeves". If this was the Zodiac Killer, I suspected that he may have been walking back to his vehicle just north this location, about 2 minutes journey time to a turnout. This would have had him entering his vehicle at around 6:32pm.

The Zodiac Killer would have been aware that 34 minutes had now elapsed since he left the scene of the double stabbing (5:58pm), and knew the location of Park Headquarters, just south of the crime scene. He may have thought it unwise to head south, back towards the crime scene and Park Headquarters in possession of the gun, knife, costume, and possibly with blood transfer to his clothing. The logical choice under these circumstances may have been to travel north towards Pope Canyon Road and Pope Valley, and then head south on Chiles Pope Valley Road (built between 1845 and 1846). The Zodiac Killer would then pass Lake Hennessy and take the Silverado Trail towards Napa. The journey time from his vehicle to the payphone via this route would be about 67 minutes after entering his vehicle at 6:32pm. The Zodiac Killer would have arrived at the payphone in Napa at 7:39pm, one minute before the phone call was logged at 7:40pm. So was this the Zodiac Killer spotted by Dr. Rayfield & Son?

JIbberjabber

3/2/2025 10:28:22 pm

Just speculation here but I am wondering if at this point in his (IMO descent into madness) Zodiac was only wanting to kill 2 people at a time, so couples but also any 2 or more people together.

He had previously attacked 2 couples in Vallejo, he may have been the guy watching the sunbathers (3 or 4 of them?) he has just attacked a couple by the lake and now he is possibly approachiing Dr Rayfield and David. Also interesting in his threat about killing a dozen people he says lone people and couples. Maybe he was fixated on killing more than 1 person at a time. I have always thought is this was Zodiac, and I think it was, he maybe even have been trying to attack Rayfield and son. There is nothing to suggest he was, but if he had seen their car for example on the road (Graysmith even claims Zodiac parked next to their car - I have never seen this corroborated) Zodiac may have been going for a "double event" at Lake Berryessa? shit there is a JTR connection and I have always said there are none in this case grrrrrr

Richard

3/3/2025 12:12:22 am

I think after his lack of front page coverage (after 3 murders) and noticing that the Snoozy/Furlong murders coverage received extensive front page coverage, he knew he had to kill at least two people, but this time had to get close and personal with a knife, thereby adding to the brutality. This is why I believe he stressed this point on the car door, writing "by knife".

I think his initial targets could have been the three women but maybe with his vehicle in close proximity to the attack, plus the challenge of an extra person to subdue, likely caused his hesitation. He may have opted to relocate his vehicle out of sight, two minutes north in that turnout, but when he returned to the area of the 3 women they had left. Could the descriptions given by two of the girls, describing a white belt around his back or white tee shirt "hanging out", have been the cut lengths of plastic clothesline trailing from his rear pocket in anticipation of a prepared attack on the girls, Or the clothesline under his T-shirt. This observation clearly stood out enough for 2 of the girls to mention.

It is still very unusual that two sets of eyewitnesses reported an unusual occurrence, independently of one another, in the same location, on the same day, within a 2 hour window. At a location that tallies with the journey north to Pope Canyon Rd and south to the payphone, to arrive at the payphone at the correct time of 7:40pm. I didn't manipulate the distance and time on Google maps, and it matches with the Rayfield sighting and call to Dave Slaight. What would you have done Jibberjabber, if you had just committed this murder over half an hour ago - head back to the crime scene and past any potential rangers travelling from Park Headquarters, who could potentially pull you over, or head away from these possible 2 hot zones. The Zodiac couldn't be certain when this attack was going to be discovered, so to me, the safest option was to head north not south. I doubt he was preparing to attack Rayfield & Son, because this would have taken another possible 15 minutes, making the time elapsed from the Hartnell/Shepard attack around 50 minutes. This would possibly be a step too far and increase the risk exponentially.

Johnny

3/3/2025 05:23:57 am

Very hard to say if the ladies saw the Zodiac. Rayfield's son i think saw him.

They ladies also saw the car, and still he didn' t get caught+ the height differences, so who knows? Perhaps the clothing could indicate Zodiac?

Voigt says that it is impossible for the person to be seen by the Rayfield's and find the telephone booth in time. Rick says it isnt. I dont know, but i trust Rick more.

Richard

3/3/2025 06:52:19 am

Either way you cut it Johnny, travelling north from Smittle Creek to the payphone the Zodiac has time. I don't know what Voigt says because I long ago stopped reading his meaningless contributions to the Zodiac case, but if the Zodiac did head south from Smittle Creek, it wouldn't take much over 45 minutes, so he would have arrived at the payphone at 7:17pm (possibly a few minutes later), with time to set up a barbecue before making the call. My only argument in the article, is that travelling north after the Rayfield sighting (if Zodiac) rather than south, would be the safer option Johnny. I can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that either the Rayfield or 3 PUC women saw the Zodiac Killer, however, I tend to go where the bulk of the reasoning points. I go with Zodiac on both occasions, but it's not a hill I'll die on. I certainly understand the opposite opinions.

Johnny

3/3/2025 05:34:13 am

I dont think either that Zodiac was interested in taking on the Rayfield's. The thing that i question is, if there is any indication at all that says Zodiac was the man watching the ladies? If not, i think we need not concentrate so much on this, before/ if ever we get something to suggest it was really him. What was this red in his shirt? Did the ladies see it, no? Blood or design? I think it needed to be pretty much red in it to get noticed.

Richard

3/3/2025 07:06:20 am

It's difficult to argue for the Rayfield's seeing red in a dark shirt from any great distance, unless it was darkish blue with patches of red on it. But they stated they saw red in a shirt, not blood on a shirt. The best two arguments given for the women seeing Zodiac, is they witnessed the man at approximately the same location as the Rayfield's, and the curious description they gave of a "white belt around his back", which is probably where you would hang the rope if you were trying to conceal it. The final reason is the duration he hovered around doing nothing, assuming their recollections are accurate.

Johnny

3/3/2025 11:11:26 pm

He needed to place the hood somewhere aswell.

This is a very detailed description ( small ears!? ): black hair possibly styled, with a part on the left, rounded eyes, thin lips, medium nose, straight eyebrows, small ears, well built, rather nice looking".

...also i get some thoughts when i look at the Beryessa sketch. He looks young, almost autistic. If its him, it might be some person that we have never heard of. I also rembember detective Slaight saying that his voice sounded weak/ young?

The thing you saying about the clothesline, Rick, i try to find exactly what the girls said, lets see if i find it....

One thing further. Clothesline and his homemade ( ? ) knife sheath and so on could indicate him living in a house i think. For example Bujok living in his car or a motel would have trouble doing these kind of things.

..ok, i reading from the report now: both Rayfield's and the girls says that he had dark clothes, that he is stocky, the height isnt comparable though. The ladies separately as i understand it says short sleeve t-shirt, but Rayfield's says long sleeves.

The ladies says dark hair and this is the same as Cecilia.

Could he have changed his shirt or maybe it really was blood anyway?

I think the thing around his midsection could be clothesline, also the hood turned inside out, or another t-shirt, or even a bag holding both the line and his hood. Buth one of the young girls says t-shirt and the other one is uncertain, the third i cant locate what she says. ( or im lazy as Rick says, and i really am! )

This report though dont mention Rayfields seing anything around the spotted individuals midsection, so maybe he had his "things" there previously or the distance was to long for Rayfield to see: https://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport6.html

....ofcourse when i read it and hear what Rick say, i think this is "probably" the same individual despite the height differences. Its atleast 80% its the same i think. And if it is, the lady describing him so well is a definitely a underestimated witness-statement!

Who of the know suspects fits best of the ladies description?

Richard link

3/4/2025 01:59:03 am

The girls produced an image of the man with dark hair that was swept back on top. Many men from that time used Brylcreem and similar products to fix their hair down and in position. This sort of hair could easily have been dragged forward when the mask was pulled over his head, with the hair being viewed by the eyelets of the mask. Brylcreem will make your hair shiny (greasy looking), exactly as Bryan Hartnell described. If the sketch created by the 3 girls was an individual with a crew-cut, then it would have most likely not been the killer 2 hours later.

Years ago I produced small changes to the Berryessa sketch such as narrowing the jawline and raising the eyes into a more natural position, which brings the Berryessa and Presidio Heights images much more into line. These sort of subtle changes can appear like manipulation to achieve an objective of making these two men into one Zodiac, but we have to remember that eyewitness recollection is unreliable and the human mind often paints an inaccurate picture of what was seen. So the recollections of the Robbins kids may very well have produced small changes to the person they actually saw, such as jawline and eye position. These subtle changes I suggested to the two images to make them one person, is no different to two sets of eyewitnesses seeing the same person and remembering their faces differently - and so creating two people from one. My point being, that not only is eyewitness recollection unreliable, it is these subtle differences that can completely change the contrast between two images. Perception varies massively. I once watched a programme where audience members had to put their hands up when 1 minute had elapsed on a stopwatch. One person put their hand up after 8 seconds and quite a few before 30 seconds. Would you really want these people as eyewitnesses to a crime when time was a critical factor. Watch the short video I've linked, especially regarding height.

Johnny

3/4/2025 02:54:58 am

I agree on the brylcreem, it will also darken his hair.

Dont think i can agree much on the sketches though Rick.
I believe they might be similar because maybe the artist/ artists used the same type of size, structure when he drawed them. But im not certain on this, i definitely hear what you are saying and i consider it.

I think really what stands out at Beryessa, if it really was him watching the ladies, is the rounded face both in the report and that it was transfered to the drawing. Small ears ( ! ) could also be something to look for, because i find it an unusual thing to say, so maybe the ears really looked small on him!

EdEdwardsCiphers link

3/4/2025 07:17:10 am

...as for eyewitness testimony, and it's reliability. One of the best videos I've seen on this was actually a demonstration that fooled the watcher, the audience. You and me.

The video showed a group of people, doing something -- I believe it was basketball. And the guidance was something like "watch the play of the basketball and see if you can identify the strategy".

But the whole thing was a trick to gauge the average recall of anyone witnessing an event.

The narrator asks afterwards "What did you notice". They went on to say something to the effect of:

"You probable noticed the basketball, you probably noticed the pass, and you probably noticed the shooting of the basketball...."

But did you notice the DANCING BEAR in the middle of the basketball play?

I burst out laughing because -- NO. No I did not notice a full grown person in a teddy bear suit dancing across the screen that they replayed in slow motion for me.

Eyewitness testimony to me, I could never take it seriously after being exposed to that.

I put it in the same category as lie detector tests. A more frothy and ridiculous origin story, as to how a lie detector machine was created and its results interpreted, I don't think has been more laughable .

They have to be taken with a whole bottle of salt.

Johnny

3/4/2025 08:20:32 am

Perhap Xenophon comes a little close to the Beryessa description.

Johnny

3/3/2025 11:48:07 pm

Yes, and i want to comment on Voigt aswell, and i understand that he hasnt been nice all the time. But i see Voigt as an individual really set in his ways, unflexible but at the same time strong and not like ( for example myself ) talking about nonsense all the time. He has the personality of a leader i would think. Rick you is more a behind the scenes personality it seems. Its just what it is, in the next life you two will be the best of friends.

Rubislaw32 link

3/4/2025 02:12:12 am

In the scheme of Zodiac things, one could call it all ''small potatoes'', Johnny.

But for Voigt, the reality is, he's used up all his lives with law enforcement. Running on an empty gas tank. And he can no longer persuade his site members to send him financing.

CA DOJ will not tolerate him if he steps out of line, again.

What was ''Donna Lass events'' about behind the scenes, apart from the morality of letting her family know she really was deceased ?

Giving the FBI a fat lip, and warning. Even CA DOJ have their breaking point.

Johnny

3/4/2025 02:44:55 am

Very small, just a little tiny, tiny potatoe...

The ladies description is not at all similar to Chester.
But if we believe Tarbox, i think we could search for a merchant marine:

Scandinavian surname
Meditarianian looks
Somewhat rounded face
Between 25 and 45

...this may or may not give results.

Rubislaw32 link

3/4/2025 10:04:39 am

The only problem with ''small potatoes'' is, Johnny, that it is synonymous with Voigt, and his apportioning to ''Stalking with menaces''. Voigt once became CharlesR among his many glove-puppets, and upset folk at Morf's site, with this opinion.

He was banned for life - ''CharlesR'', that is. Miraculously, Voigt by his own name, carried on posting. How was ''CharlesR'' outed ? He confused his best posting pal, who started to refer to him, as ''Tom''.

How we all screamed with laughter. But, not over the ''small potatoes''.

EdEdwardsCiphers link

3/4/2025 11:58:57 am

Correct @Sir Richard.

I wish I had listened to my colleague sooner, and had come here first instead of to "The # site for Zodiackiller information". What a crock.

EdEdwardsCipher link

3/4/2025 07:05:17 am

No @Johnny. I don't agree.

small void, is your classic poor sport and possible narcissist. He's displayed possible narcissistic traits of -- he doesn't play well with others in the sandbox.

Here's one of his problems. He believes he owns this case. Owns what happens around it, and owns the narrative around it.

Everyone to some degree believes this. But unfortunately small void believes he's ENTITLED to it. He's made himself a gatekeeper, and believes he is one, and he should be one, and that his say so is what's important and relevant. He should have the last word. After all, he was an EDitor right? Like his father taught him to be?

He wants control.

This is very different from working towards the good of others as Sir Richard seems to have been consistently doing on this site. It is working towards only that which embiggens oneself. That's Narcissism.

Sir Richard is quite different. Almost a polar opposite. He continues to pump out cogent and relevant thoughts.

He rehashes when needs be, and reassesses old viewpoints to see if things could have been missed or need to be looked at from a different viewpoint. And he shares this with others. Which is crowdsourcing, and teaming, and is how many of the world's greatest problems have ever been solved. It's also an example of logical inquiry , scientific rigor and peer review.

They won't be friends. Until one of them grows up and realizes that he is no longer in a sandbox with other babies.

What's the saying? "When I grew up, I learned to let go of childish things."

It's the difference between lifting people up, and holding people down. It's not hard to understand this. You can see it playing out writ large right now in society.

Those people believe they are right, for right now. But it will be too late when they realize -- History will judge them harshly.

Richard

3/4/2025 07:45:07 am

People who resort to insults and smears are people who have no debating skills. They realise they are unintelligent, so they attempt to bring people down to their level by using schoolyard antics. Voigt is such a person. Unable to unearth new and interesting information in the Zodiac case anymore, he spends the overwhelming majority of his time acting like an 8-year-old child. That is why I never read his comments anymore - because they have no value. The sad thing about the whole thing, is that he hasn't got the brain power for even a modicum of introspection.

Johnny

3/4/2025 04:31:52 am

Could "In the woods dies April" be Zodiacs a reference to that people don't dare to go to that place aslong as the murderer remains free, no? I mean he has one again polluted normal peoples enjoyments with his evilness.

Rubislaw32 link

3/4/2025 05:25:38 am

It appears to be referring to Karl Werner's third victim, Kathy Bilek - who was murdered by him, while bird watching, Sunday April 11th 1971, Villa Montalvo Saratoga, in a remote wooded area of the park.

It's conceivable that the Zodiac, attempting to claim falsely for Kathy, was influenced by Simon & Garfunkel's Kathy's Song and April She Will Come.

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THE TIMING OF THE BERRYESSA PHONE CALL

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