THE SWINDLE MURDERS AT OCEAN BEACH [PT2]

7/2/2024

Despite conflicting reports regarding the time of the Johnny and Joyce Swindle murders on February 5th 1964, several investigators place the time closer to 8:15pm, including Sergeant Ed Stevens. Although it was reported that "a man was seen running away from the beach about two blocks away" from the crime scene, I wasn't able to consolidate this sighting with a time and location. Fortunately there was additional and more promising eyewitness testimony.

There was another report that a man was seen running on Del Monte Avenue at 8:16pm, about one minute after the earliest estimates of the murders (8:15pm) The shortest route from the top of the stairwell at Narragansett Avenue (above the crime scene) to Del Monte Avenue in a southerly direction is a journey of 558 feet. Typical walking speed is 4.6 feet per second, so if this was the killer running at approximately 10 feet per second, it would take him about 55.8 seconds to reach the western edge of Del Monte Avenue and correlate with the 8:16pm eyewitness sighting. This would have placed the man only 82 feet from the cliff edge.

If this was the killer, he refused to choose the option of heading a considerable distance east on Narragansett Avenue by traveling south on Ocean Front Street. After this brief journey, he again had the option of heading a considerable distance east on a narrow side road (marked with a red line on the map), but instead he continued on Ocean Front Street to Del Monte Avenue. See Google maps.

If our killer was on foot heading to safety in the direction of his home (without a vehicle) and lived in San Diego, this may suggest that he didn't live anywhere north of Narragansett Avenue.because he was heading away from this location. He could have lived on Del Monte Avenue or further south such as Bacon St, Santa Cruz Ave, Coronado Ave, lower Cable St, or Del Mar Ave (or beyond). If on foot, it would just depend on what "buffer zone" he was prepared to implement between his residence and the crime scene, and how far he was prepared to travel on foot in the public gaze after committing a double murder with a gun in his possession.

We may all apply different standards to this conundrum but I doubt it would extend beyond a mile at most. The red circles below extend southwards about 1/4 to 1/3 of a mile from the crime scene. If this was the murderer of Johnny and Joyce Swindle spotted by an eyewitness, then his refusal to head a significant distance east when twice presented with the opportunity before he reached Del Monte Avenue, has the potential to narrow down the search for the killer's residnce or anchor point. The sighting of this individual running away from the crime scene is the nearest to the site of the murders and relevant to the time the shootings were believed to have occurred. This analysis is obviously highly dependent on a murderer who didn't park a getaway vehicle close to the crime scene, but it's a start.

Had the killer used a vehicle it still makes sense from the standpoint of caution that he would apply a discretionary buffer zone. A murderer parking his vehicle at the top of the stairwell on Narragansett Avenue would have been taking a huge risk of his vehicle being spotted in close proximity to the crime scene (and possibly the sound of gunfire), so it would have been safer to park his vehicle one block south away from any immediate potential eyewitnesses. However, applying common sense to the criminal mind is probably the definition of madness.

THE SWINDLE MURDERS AT OCEAN BEACH (PT1)

Joseph

7/3/2024 11:18:50 am

The speculation about the killer's getaway reminds me of Zodiac's getaway from the Paul Stine murder. And whether a car was involved(a good possibility in the Paul Stine murder). I recently read an article from the San Diego Union dated January 16,1972 where the Swindle murders are discussed as a ongoing/cold case. The most interesting part I found was thar the police were aware of three cars in the general area that night. A green sedan at the foot of Newport street, and a Pontiac and Jaguar XKE on Niagra. It was mentioned that no one had come forward claiming ownership of these vehicles. I am assuming no license plate numbers were taken down. Possibility recollections from people living in the area.

Richard

7/3/2024 01:24:49 pm

I can't find that newspaper on newspapers.com, but it's a shame that neither Newport Ave or Niagara Ave were beyond Del Monte Ave heading south. However if the running man spotted two blocks away from the crime scene was heading north he would have been on Newport Avenue. It's very strange nobody claimed ownership of these vehicles. Possibly stolen? Thanks for the information Joseph.

Joseph

7/3/2024 02:58:30 pm

Richard I found the San Diego news article from 1972 at interactive.cbs8.com there were several articles about the swindle murders as a pdf file. They also mention some suspects in the case including a 19 year old marine who killed his family with an axe but was cleared in the Swindle crime. I have visited zodiac cyphers.com for a couple of years and enjoy the site. I found your podcast with Mike Morford excellent. What I like most about the podcast is how you both speculate about what may have happened and what might have motivated the zodiac in his communications with the media and law enforcement. I feel that you have been able to extract things from these zodiac communications that law enforcement missed.

Richard

7/3/2024 03:21:27 pm

Thanks for heads up on where I can find the newspaper cutting Joseph. I appreciate the kind words regarding the site and have attempted to cover all aspects of the Zodiac case over the years, but do enjoy examining the communications the most because they are the only real window into this guy. I have also studied biology as early as 7 years old believe it or not, so the autopsy reports are something that interests me. Although I recognise it's not a pleasant subject they tell us so much more about the crime in accompaniment with the crime scene and ballistics, that is not apparent when just looking at the attacks on their face value. I enjoyed doing the podcast with Mike but I just ran out of material. Since it has stopped I think it would be possible to make at least another 15 episodes, although I am not sure I have the drive anymore. I'm getting a bit old now!! Thanks for the information and if you find anything extra please drop it here.

Richard

7/3/2024 03:26:02 pm

Unfortunately I will have to disguise my location to read interactive.cbs8.com because it is denying access to my location in England.

Joseph

7/3/2024 03:40:00 pm

In the San Diego Union article from 1972 it mentions some of the possessions Johnny ray Swindle had such as his wedding ring and what was engraved on it. A cigarette lighter, and the exact amount of money he had. I found another article that mentioned which navy ships Swindle was assigned to. The USS Chevalier and the USS Hanson both Gearing class destroyers both built in Bath Maine shipyard. I was checking the online history of both ships paying particular attention to the time in which Swindle was serving on these ships. The autopsy evidence is important. I have been interested in the autopsy evidence in the JFK assassination and without claiming any conspiracy there are definitely alot of unanswered questions when you look at the autopsy. The key to solving the zodiac crimes may lie in the autopsy evidence and his communications since the dna has not paned out, atleast not yet.

Richard

7/3/2024 04:31:23 pm

Thanks for those extra pieces of info. I believe the communications may tell us where he lived. If we can narrow down a reasonable area where he likely lived similar to the BRS phone booth argument and the missing time, then, assuming the killer lived in one location for a reasonable period of time it wouldn't be that difficult to find the killer as Kim Rossmo pointed out. That is how Mike Morford approached the subject. I don't subscribe to his suspect, however, I believe he is taking the right approach. It's much better to identify a location first and narrow the pool of potential suspects that way, than scour the entire area of northern California and plucking out suspects based upon facets of their life, using internet searches. The Zodiac's crimes, phone calls, the times he operated, and his communications can all be used to identify his anchor point. It's a matter of getting the right one with the correct analysis. We all have different interpretations, so we have to forge ahead with what we believe is the best reasoning to identify his likely anchor point or home location. I, for example, think Zodiac live in a half mile radius of the BRS payphone, but many disagree. I think using human nature and the art of geographic profiling is our best tool. The problem is I have no way of finding all the details of all the individuals who lived in that area in 1969. That was a job for investigators at the time. How in depth they went, who knows. But of course, I could be wrong and Zodiac lived elsewhere. However, I still think this is the best approach.

Joseph

7/3/2024 06:21:37 pm

Thank you for the lead on Kim Rossmo, I will look into his assessment. My guess is that the Zodiac lived in Vallejo. And agree with he had business in San Francisco possibly weekly as was mentioned in the podcast. What do you think he did for work? I was fascinated with how Mike went Morford went about arriving at his suspect.

Richard

7/4/2024 12:05:57 am

I wouldn't pretend to know what profession the Zodiac had. The only interesting thing was his ability to shape his communications from many different newspapers, often from the weeks and months prior as demonstrated by his pasted communications (if you believe they are genuine). Sometimes these articles he used to source the text to paste were not Zodiac related, so did he store piles of old newspapers or did he have a profession that allowed him easy access to multiple different newspapers such as a newsstand or newsagents shop. Or worked in the newspaper industry? If this wasn't the case did he simply go out every day and purchase 10 to 20 random newspapers to keep abreast of his reported exploits So if I had to take a wild stab in the dark I suspect his profession gave him easy access to this reading material.

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THE SWINDLE MURDERS AT OCEAN BEACH [PT2]

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