THE PAYPHONE TRACE IN VALLEJO [PART 2]

9/25/2024

It has now been established that when Betty Main (or another) rang back the payphone at the intersection of Springs & Tuolumne, the Zodiac Killer pulled the receiver from the hook and left it dangling when he left the scene, which kept the line open and allowed Betty Main to trace the "silent" call. However, did she (or somebody else) speak to the shabbily dressed negro male, who the Zodiac Killer claimed saw him and his vehicle when he initially hung up the phone? Despite Betty Main being identified as the female who traced the payphone call, why would her supervisor "not allow her to give a statement to police at this time"? After all, somebody had just rang Nancy Slover and claimed four murders - and all Betty Main had seemingly done was keep the line open to effect the trace. Did Betty Main have some extra information that her supervisor wanted to first discuss with police?

When the Zodiac Killer rang Nancy Slover at 12:40am he stated "I want to report a double murder. If you will go one mile east...... On Columbus Parkway to the public park, you will find the kids in a brown car. They were shot with a 9 mm Luger. I also killed those kids last year.... Good-bye". His phone call would have ended at approximately 12:41am The details behind this call were then relayed by Mrs Johnson PT&T operator to police at 12:47am, while we assume the trace by Betty Main on the open line was still ongoing. When the trace was effected (estimated at 12:56am in the previous article), police at Blue Rock Springs were informed of the payphone location. This is assuming a trace took 15 minutes in 1969.

But why would police initially be informed as late as 12:47am about something so important, some six minutes after the call ended? Once the Zodiac Killer ended the call, it appears that Betty Main rang back the payphone, while Mrs Johnson was sought and informed of the details given by the Zodiac Killer. This may explain why several minutes elapsed between the end of the Zodiac call and police being informed. If the police report is to be read a different way and the phone call location was traced at 12:47am (and didn't require 15 minutes from the time the Zodiac unhooked the receiver), then there is another possibility.

When Betty Main (or another) rang back the payphone, Zodiac removed the receiver and left the scene. However, where was the negro male at this juncture? If he was hanging around the area at the time, he may have belatedly noticed the hanging receiver and heard Betty Main on the other end, resulting in him picking up the receiver and talking to her. She may have immediately asked him to provide the location of the payphone, which he did at 12:47am. This could explain how Betty Main "traced" the payphone call in only six minutes and why the Zodiac Killer stated on August 4th 1969 "The man who told police that my car was brown was a negro about 40-45 rather shabbly dressed". If the Zodiac Killer saw the negro male picking up the receiver at 12:47am and providing Betty Main the payphone location, it would mean that the Zodiac Killer still had eyes on that payphone six minutes after he unhooked the receiver.

But remember, the Zodiac Killer stated in his letter that "The man who told police that my car was brown was a negro", not "The man who told operators that my car was brown was a negro". If the payphone was traced via the negro male, Betty Main may well have told this individual to secure the payphone and wait until police arrived. If the call was traced at 12:47am, then the responding officer from Blue Rock Springs would have arrived at the payphone at approximately 12:56am. If the Zodiac Killer saw this policeman talking to the black man by the payphone, it is easy to understand why the Zodiac Killer believed the negro male who saw his vehicle relayed this information to police. But this would place the Zodiac Killer at a location where he still had eyes on the payphone 15 minutes after he ended the menacing call to Nancy Slover. So did the Zodiac Killer live nearby, or did he simply fabricate the story of the negro male?

This question hinges on how long it took to trace a payphone in 1969. If it was traced at 12:47am, yet this process took at least 15 minutes in 1969, then the negro male becomes far more important to this story, bearing in mind he was placed at the payphone by the killer himself. Did the negro male request anonymity and why Betty Main's supervisor didn't immediately allow her to give a statement to police? The supervisor freely told police that Betty Main had traced the call, so what else happened on that open line that made her reluctant to allow Betty Main to be interviewed. Was it her conversation with the negro male?

If the payphone location was traced before 12:47am (by the operator being given its phone number) and this time was only relevant to when Mrs Johnson called the police, then the responding officer from Blue Rock Springs could have been informed of the payphone location shortly after the Zodiac Killer initially hung up the phone. This would have placed a police officer at the payphone several minutes earlier (approximately 12:50am). But was the Zodiac Killer still in the area, observing the negro male converse with the officer?

THE PAYPHONE TRACE IN VALLEJO [PART ONE]

22 Comments

Johnny

9/26/2024 10:50:48 am

I almost forgot it. I think Slaight said that the caller that reported from Beryessa sounded pretty young. Brian said the same.

I think though that the clothing could be to protect him from blood besides the role he is acting, but he is hidden alright and maybe Jerome had a point.

I still recall "Oscar" on the old board saying that Beryessa wasnt Zodiac.

But now onto Ricks subject ofcourse, sorry for talking of other things!

I think if Zodiac lived in Vallejo, maybe he would have stopped right away with his killing career if it got to close. That is one thing that goes against him living in Vallejo, that is if the "negro adult male" was told by him because he got nervous

This with the negro male is a so extremely transparent lie if its a lie, and he didn't want the police to know that he walked instead of drove.

Richard

9/26/2024 12:16:23 pm

Let's assume, as I have in the past that he completely made up the negro male, then we have to ask why. Was it to paint the picture that his car was brown when it wasn't. Or paint the picture he was in a car when he wasn't. This ruse would have seemed helpful to the mind of Zodiac if police had no knowledge of any negro male who spoke to them. If however, police were aware of a negro male who spoke to them at the payphone, then Zodiac by stating this in his August 4th 1969 letter could be seen as taunting them, rather than a ruse. But more importantly it would place Zodiac with eyes on that payphone at 12:56am - and that is significant. The only other option is that there was a negro male by the payphone when he hung up the phone, but simply concocted the story of him talking to police. But it's food for thought if that call was traced as quickly as 6 minutes when you consider the notion of Pacific Telephone needing 15 minutes to trace a call on October 22nd 1969. This would absolutely make it a possibility that somebody picked up the hanging receiver and made possible the early trace. If it was ever revealed that police did make contact with a negro male on the street on July 5th 1969, it absolutely confirms Zodiac was still in the vicinity.

Johnny

9/26/2024 12:42:56 pm

This is the smart ( smartest ) money i think: "The only other option is that there was a negro male by the payphone when he hung up the phone, but simply concocted the story of him talking to police."

... because when it rang back, the negro male noticed and looked toward Zodiac or/ and his car and Zodiac ofcourse got nervous about this.

But if this is right maybe he didn't live in Vallejo. Maybe he did, but it is less likely.

But if he walked toward the phone and back and the negro male noticed him when it rang, then he would be extremely nervous.

I think this is hard because the alternatives has almost even odds.

What i believe is that he had a light coloured car and Zodiac believed the ringing draw the negro males attention towards it, and therefore he goes with brown as Mageau said. But i don't like it either because it's to transparent a lie.

What you say about him looking afterwards at the payphone i find least likely of all possibilities. I don't think nomally a black man atleast back then wanted to involve himself but sure it's just odds and how the context goes, but it's more likely he had a car or lived in Vallejo and walked, but less likely that he watched all this from his window with a binocular or something like that.

Johnny

9/26/2024 12:49:43 pm

I mean, when it rang he probably was close to his car ( here the black man could have seen him ) and turned back to the booth to take it up and lay it in the receiver once again.

But that's just have been my thinking, it could be one of your alternatives aswell, and sure the black male maybe never existed and he used this just to tell the police he had a brown car ( or a car instead of walking ).

Richard Grinell

9/26/2024 12:54:28 pm

When Zodiac hangs up on Nancy Slover and she reports what she has just heard. Let us say it takes a bare minimum of somebody ringing back the phone as 20 seconds. That payphone was by the road and Zodiac's car was presumably close enough to the payphone for the claimed negro male to see. How does it take Zodiac 20 seconds to reach his vehicle? But let's assume he has just reached it, why would he waste time going back to the payphone to remove the receiver making him and his car visible to any eyewitness for longer, rather than hopping in his vehicle straight away and driving off. To make it worthwhile for Zodiac to remove the receiver to not draw further attention to him, he had to be literally at the phone when it rang. This would suggest that somebody immediately rang back the phone, likely within seconds.

Johnny

9/26/2024 01:21:04 pm

Just one fast correction from me. Maybe "Oscar" from the old Voigt board didn't deny the Beryessa crime.

Here is a thread about him by the way, it's just amazing! : https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/parallels-between-gyke-and-oscar-on-old-board-t4951.html

"why would he waste time going back to the payphone to remove the receiver making him and his car visible to any eyewitness for longer, rather than hopping in his vehicle straight away and driving off. "

I think Zodiac maybe just drove away as you say, but if i was there and i isn't as smart as Zodiac i might go back. I think he could have done it aswell, depending on the surrounding, dark outside and if he didn't see any people outside right away and so on.

A further possibility, Rick, is that the old phones sometimes ( pretty often actually ) rang back by themselves when someone was on the other line. Don't you remember? But phone booths i dont know if they rang back that way or not.

Richard

9/26/2024 01:30:11 pm

I remember somebody stating that payphones sometimes ring on their own, but this wasn't the case here, because the ringback by operators was how they traced the call, whether by keeping the open line for a set time, or by speaking to the black man.

Johnny

9/26/2024 01:44:31 pm

Oh, i see.... Yes, then it will be different ofcourse, i hadn't noticed that they did it that way. Anyway, thanks for tonight, Rick. See ya all soon!!
Booooohhhhh!!

Richard Grinell

9/26/2024 01:35:25 pm

"In that epasode the police were wondering how I could shoot + hit my victims in the dark. They did not openly state this, but implied this by saying it was a well lit night + I could see silowets on the horizon. Bullshit that area is surrounded by high hills + trees".

The Zodiac was also telling the truth here. The path ran by Betty Lou Jensen had a backdrop of hills and trees from the shooter's perspective, as he claimed on August 4th.

johnny

9/26/2024 01:47:35 pm

...Just a last note. Who is this Presidio sketch really? It looks like some photogenic moviestar. I have never seen such a sketch i think.

Richard

9/26/2024 02:03:44 pm

It could be anybody Johnny. If only they had asked Donald Fouke to create an independent sketch without seeing the Robbins version. Had both looked like a photogenic moviestar, we may have been on to something. Cheerio for now.

Paul C.

9/26/2024 02:59:19 pm

Every scenario should be examined, but the black witness is almost certainly a fabrication - what killer who has gotten away volunteers specific information on the presence of a previously unknown eyewitness (and the color of his own car)?

Richard

9/26/2024 03:07:12 pm

Bang on. It's important to consider the claims of Zodiac are genuine, even if everything tells you it's a fabrication. The only question I've got after examining it again Paul, is if the call was traced after 6 minutes how did they do it. My guess is the wording in the police report is unclear, and easily read in multiple ways.

Paul C.

9/26/2024 03:20:30 pm

Agreed - perhaps tracing a call at midnight, when the phone system likely had very few active calls and circuits, could have been done faster (pure speculation on my part).

Johnny

9/27/2024 02:49:35 am

I agree with both of you that it very well could be a fabrication, but how could he know that it rang then ( i guess i should know this one .... ) ?

And wasn't it dark outside, how could he see the dark man from a distance, if that was the case that is?

This is the wording: "When I hung the phone up the damn X@ thing began to ring & that drew his attention to me + my car."

Maybe it really called back automatically as phones ( pretty often ) did back then, and later on they did a ringback as Ricks says.

This is hard though, it's feels like we dividing around almost even alteratives. I think you may be right though, that it is really a fabrication to point us falsely toward him not walking or a lie about a brown car.

Richard

9/27/2024 05:08:54 am

According to Zodiac the black man walked by the payphone. That street was lit, so there would have been enough light. The phone must have been rang back by operators or they could never have traced the payphone.

Johnny

9/27/2024 03:33:17 am

What if someone waited to use the phone and Zodiac felt pressured to put it back on the receiver. If that's the case Zodiacs intelligence is still intact, because he preferred to let it hang, but got pressured to put in in the receiver, because he judged it possible that the police would still be at the line when the other person picked it up.

Just a sugestion this is.

Paul Ramone

9/27/2024 10:32:51 am

Were you not taking a long break because you had nothing more to say? Reading these posts makes it look like a good idea.

You're trying so hard so contribute.

Richard

9/27/2024 11:21:24 am

That's OK Paul, you're free not to like the articles. Not everybody likes what I do.

Johnny

9/27/2024 11:08:56 am

Things change, Paul. We take it day by day, it's funnier that way also.

Johnny

9/28/2024 03:16:41 am

Ofcourse also it will be written about very small details because Rick has written so much already. If for example it will be some breakthrough in the case and the real experts come on here, i for one will ofcourse take a stand back and just listen, so you reading this never need to worry that this site deflates for long, because it will push up again faster then the lightning strikes.

But its still important to not clutter this comment section to much, and i for one need to watch my tongue.

Soon, Rubi is back if he has his health and then everything is alright again. Hi Rubislaw! I will stand in for you meanwhile.

Johnny

9/28/2024 04:22:54 am

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/zodiackillerfr/was-nov-26-1969-murder-vic-raphael-n-colar-zodiac--t4192-s20.html

Black witness if there was and if he was killed or not by the Zodiac.

He was a merchant marine it says, just saying....

THE PAYPHONE TRACE IN VALLEJO [PART 2]

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