PLANET X FILMWORKS WITH ANDREW GRAY

8/4/2024

Released on August 5th 2024, Ross Geraci, host of the YouTube channel *Planet X Filmworks" focused on the post canonical activities of the Zodiac Killer with Canadian filmmaker Andrew Gray from the "Citizen Detective Podcast". Both regular contributors to the Zodiac Killer community over many years, they discussed general Zodiac topics and then ventured beyond the four confirmed attacks at Lake Herman Road, Blue Rock Springs, Lake Berryessa and Presidio Heights. To view this episode of the Zodiac files, please click the image below. .

36 Comments

Johnny

8/4/2024 10:52:44 am

Yeahhh!!!

Johnny

8/5/2024 11:24:36 am

I know that "Druzer" have talked about amdixterity before.

Dyslexia, amdixterity, mathematics and right brained
may go together. The opposite would be autism. "Rubislaw", you talked about Zodiac sickly as a kid, and then i thought about that maybe he was, and it is much depending on this that he has become antisocial. Dyslectics had a harder time in the old world aswell.

The thing Richard talked about that Zodiac spelled the same word different in the same letter rings true in that sense, that he might want to hedge his bet ( because he really is wordblind ).

I like Ross discussion about Groucho Marx.

When i was younger i knew a dyslectic. he could fit very well into this profile. he was ambidextrous, very smart at mathematics but slow at arithmetics, social and outgoing but also a bit shy because of his
troubles. I think the dyslectics had low self worth in yesterdays world, bit nowadays they fit in much better and autistics much worse.

Yeah, and they may have trouble with fine motor skills, but they could be athletic ( good body cordination ) because of their excellent right brain activity i guess.

They have trouble with rote memory and therefore trouble in the earlier grades in school. But they make excellent criminals, streetsmart.

Im no expert in this. Some details certainly wrong, but i have met people and read some books.

Rubislaw32 link

8/5/2024 12:14:14 pm

Some good food-for-thought there, Johnny.

I'm not genned-up on Dyslexics, and bow to your better judgement on this. Two points I might add, though accept any disagreeing:

1) Zodiac unlikely to have been autistic. He didn't always score on humour, but was generally amusing and showed a varied range of different types e.g deadpan, self-deprecation, wise-crack, ironic. Autistic folk are very low-level on appreciating the nuances of humour. More on the Tom & Jerry level. No way, for example, was Ted K the Zodiac, who suffered from Asperger's syndrome - a form of Autism.

2) Zodiac was good-High School math ''tops'', but no more than this, and was probably quite able at mathematical applications. I have him down as a mechanical engineer by tertiary education, anyway - and may have used some of these skills in his work. He was more of a fan of some the ''tools'' of a pure mathematician - sometimes ''pretty symbols & flowery vocabulary''. But, only the pure mathematician appreciates its cold, dark and unforgiving nature - particularly when one fails to uncover what was already there.

Jibberjabber

8/5/2024 01:26:58 pm

I have to point out in just from my own experience, I have worked in the field of engineering for 30 years (electrical) and have NEVER met a mechanical engineer who knew anything more detailed about electrical / electronics than they usually have 2 wires (positive and negitive, although they would probably say black & red wires) I am not saying there are not mechanical engineers with electrical knowledge, there would have to be, just I have never met them and there are a lot of engineers where I work. Personally I doubt Zodiac was a mechanical engineer as he has his electronics perfect including maybe not well known electrical components like photo-electric-switch and fail-safe devices etc. I would like to know how many mechanical engineers know what a photo-switch is? Zodiac also really does not use any mechanical terms or concepts in his communications, he seems to have knowledge of electrical/electronics and maybe chemistry to a basic level to make a bomb, but there is nothing from the field of mechanical engineering I see. It was a good spot whoever noticed he drew the road on the bus bomb diagram with a camber. People keep saying Zodiac must have been a mechanical engineer because he could draught engineering drawings, but those same drawings are used by electrical engineers civil engineers etc I cant see anything "mechanical engineering" based in the Zodiac correspondences personally.

Rubislaw32 link

8/5/2024 01:47:27 pm

That's a bit ''sweeping'' for me, Jibberjabber, and in education at least, mechanical engineers can't avoid some electrical engineering - even if they wanted to.

As a pure mathematician graduate, we still had to look at many of the applications, known as ''mathematical sciences'', including both mechanical and electrical engineering.

In a working environment, I believe the Zodiac (Bay area) was a trainee manager (mostly of men) - but in a mechanical engineering environment.

Johnny

8/5/2024 12:33:30 pm

I agree totally on your points in section 1!

Your section 2 needs a better matematichian then myself to judge,
and that is yourself.

One thing we "could" have proved with all this, is that the smoker at Beryessa "might" have been Zodiac, and that is because it fits his cognitive profile that we have just explained.

He also was a very unsensitive person i think, because he was bitter, his genes or both, and this also points more towards extroversion dyslexia. ( they see the big picture, live here and now and don't get lost in small details and a evil dyslectic could be very crude in his ways ).

ADHD is similar to dyslexia and often goes together. This is really extraverted personalities that are streetsmart. They woun't like to be any accountant type of person.

I want correction in all this for people that sees that im wrong in certain points, please? I don't have the whole picture here, but i do my best and sometimes i need to take some chances aswell!

But is see Zodiac definitely not as a depressed anxiety ridden type of person, but more of a existential type of bitterness towards the world and he is prone to boredom. He likes visual art and i don't see him reading any doestoevsky type novels.

Rubisaw32 link

8/5/2024 01:07:46 pm

All sounds pretty good to me, Johnny.

I would be confident investigators found cigarette butts at both Lake Herman Road and Lake Berryessa. What they made of them , they may never tell us. With increasing ''Nanny States'' modern societies have become, smoking is often regarded as simply a dirty & health affecting habit. But, back then you were almost considered unsophisticated if you didn't smoke. And most found a brand and stuck to it. Retrospective first adult Zodiac suspect ever, William Grant (1968-1973) was a chain-smoker of Pall Mall cigarettes. What's the betting same butts were found at LHR & LB ? But, he was an innocent man - technically, at least.

Johnny

8/5/2024 03:23:26 pm

Looking through FBI files part 4, and i notice on page 74 similar writing
to the Zodiac letters. Don't know what it says though, but reacted right away on the handwriting.

Johnny

8/5/2024 03:51:38 pm

The letter seems to be sent to the FBI in Boston 24/4 -72.

It isn't texted like the Zodiac letters and i can't see any similarity on
the letter front, but the first look i take inside the letter i feel a similarity, and when im going into details i see possible similar handwriting in similar words, for example "willing". The letterwriter also has marked over a word just like the Zodiac does.

Rubislaw32 link

8/5/2024 06:44:46 pm

Yes - that's actually 24/4 - 82

5 months after the disappearance of Harvard student and socialite Joan Webster - last seen attempting to leave the vehicle area of Boston's Logan Airport, with ''The Bearded Man''. A composite of the man, generally available. I believe him to have been the Zodiac.

Previously, the letter was thought to have been written by Joan's father George Webster, who was known to have insisted on an active role with LE in his daughter's disappearance. He was able to, because of his connections. They still believed at that time, that she was a victim of kidnapping.

It seems that letter was hoaxed, pretending to be George. From the Zodiac ? Possibly.

Rubislaw32 link

8/5/2024 07:31:37 pm

Naturally, I would recommend any Z-follower to become genned-up on Joan's case. I see her as one of two ''definite'' victims of the Zodiac, after his Bay area 5 victims. I make a number of references to her case at the ZKM site in the ''Zodiac case deciphered & solved'' thread. In addition to having had actual contact with ''2 Parties'' directly involved.

In essence, MA DOJ's position now, is to allow her case to sleep. It's a gamble that may backfire down the line.

Rubislaw32 link

8/6/2024 12:23:41 am

On the matter of the April 24th 1982 letter, specifically - there may be an alternative reason for the FBI inserting it into the files. Anything to do with Joan's case appears to have been thrown in to the Zodiac files, as if at random : The letter may be from George, referring to Gareth Penn who made ''Zodiac representations'' to George, regarding Joan as a possible victim of the Zodiac - whom Penn was to reveal, by claim, as lecturer Michael O'Hare.

Penn was invited to meet George, but as prior-planned and without Penn's knowledge, was apprehended when Penn attempted the meeting. Penn was later released after questioning, which appears to have been with Penn's consent.

The FBI were later to infer that they believed Penn to be inclined to fashion Zodiac evidence in an effort to finger-point O'Hare as the Zodiac.

Penn's evidence seems to be underpinned by geometry, and mathematically based in general. Although often touted as a mathematician - he simply wasn't one, albeit a gifted scholar as a German linguist and archivist.

Rubislaw32 link

8/6/2024 01:18:19 am

''touted as a mathematician'' ? Where have we heard and read that, in recent times, in 10's if not 100's of media outlets ? As referring to Sam Blake, one of three claimed solvers of the Zodiac's Z340, by the FBI - who have not played an active role in the Zodiac case, in the service of case custodians, since 2015.

Only the New York Times has described Sam Blake correctly: An applied mathematician. Specifically, as a scholar of quantitative science.Which again, is a subject that requires no mathematical theory study.

Rubislaw32 link

8/6/2024 01:42:56 am

''Quack, quack'' ? This shouldn't detract from Don Harden's not inconsequential achievement in an approx 98% solve of Z408. Harden was a crossword puzzler ''par excellence'', having won competitions.

But equally, Harden was known to have hit a brick wall when attempting Z340. Simply a case of ''horses for courses'' and the Zodiac, as a cryptography beginner but keen crossword puzzler (not in Don's league), tried to make Z340 more difficult.

Johnny

8/6/2024 01:36:59 am

Are you sure at -82?

Rubislaw32 link

8/6/2024 01:50:57 am

Yes absolutely. Take a magnify glass out for a closer look. Joan Webster's sister-in-law Eve Carson has commented on it before, also. I don't think she is sure who is its author. The family weren't impressed with Penn's claims - that's for sure.

Johnny

8/6/2024 02:05:46 am

Im looking at what the letterwriter writes in the top right corner. Its a strange seven i agree, but it doesnt look like an 8 to me.

Rubislaw32 link

8/6/2024 02:17:17 am

I know what you mean about ''doubt'' - but the ''Boston'' letter does refer to the Joan Webster case. It's 1982.

After all (?), ''#inches'' could be ''Finches''. And ''Air'' could be ''Qir''.

The Zodiac was a devil.

Johnny

8/6/2024 02:41:25 am

One thing i find a little strange is the times Zodiac took on responsibility for certain murders, how could he know they wouldn't get solved? Was he in the police force? Radetich, Lass, Johns.

The San Jose murders didn't go as planned though.

Rubislaw32 link

8/6/2024 03:09:38 am

With the San Jose (Karl Werner) murders, the Zodiac contracted himself to those, because (probably) he wanted to vary the fear factor, and in the knowledge he only had one gun remaining (out of three) - and he knew it was going to increase the chances of getting caught if he tried to purchase more guns. Legislation was about to become tighter with ''mail order'' on firearms.

From what is known now, SFPD were leaving it open as to the possibility of the Zodiac's responsibility for Snoozy & Furlong. But case investigators San Jose PD were never convinced of the Zodiac's culpability for the girls. And with Bilek's murder resulting in Werner's arrest and subsequent conviction for all three girls, in September 1971, ''proof positive'' that San Jose PD had been correct in their assertions all along.

SFPD were far from downcast about this - because ''clarity'' had been brought to bear. Proof that the Zodiac had the capacity to outright lie about his achievements, and murder in particular.

The Zodiac had lost face, and knew it was time to exit his arena of terror.

Johnny

8/6/2024 02:53:50 pm

I don't think the Zodiac was more then 5 10" ( or so ) maximum. My POI ( Voigts POI ) CCK was i believe between 5,11"-5,12". This could exclude him.

I personally like Mageaus early description more then most do i think. It's also easy to think that Zodiac should be 35-45, but if you look at all the descriptions he might be younger still.

If we look at the physical descriptions and also his age, i think that
he might be 5,8 1/2", 200lbs, 30-35 years of age, Dark blonde/ light brown hair.

Still think it might be CCK though, it's all to much indications it
might be him and nothing really excludes him . He really is the perfect suspect and i don't think anyone else comes close.

Johnny

8/6/2024 06:48:54 pm

Reading Rodellis book. He mentions one Jerry Johnson ( 7 letters ). Rodellis writes he was a member in a group discussing the Zodiac case. Lyndon Lafferty was also a member, and they together tried to make a case for Grant.

Rubislaw32 link

8/6/2024 08:45:30 pm

I wouldn't wish to deny anyone's suspect outright - and physical dimensions of the Zodiac have clearly presented a problem in general agreement, over the years.

Lyndon Lafferty largely operated on his own, for the most part, although he could count on his group of 7 buddies together occasionally. He saw a way through, as mostly sticking to a trusted relationship with case custodians CA DOJ - that no other private investigator seemed to have. I don't think he trusted the FBI, and was careful not to get too chummy with the press.

I think he was giving more thought for my proposal that Zodiac was actually Grant's biological son - but we weren't in touch for the last 18 months of his life (to my sadness). I didn't know that he was seriously ill.

As I have mentioned, this was a WWII tragedy that played itself out, 25 years later. But there are a number of other theories knocking around - and will remain so, until DOJ's and politicians of influence finally get the message that this case is never going away, until put to bed properly.

Johnny

8/6/2024 09:21:06 pm

You may be right in your suspect, Rubi. I just go on what i read, and humbly listen to people like yourself, that has been closer to the case and the surroundings.

Johnny

8/8/2024 06:04:34 am

Maybe Doerr have a few things aswell besides CCK, but for third place i can't see anyone. Looking in from the outside Doerr might be the best, but we need to understand that he is now pretty reserarched and they haven't come up with any bigger things ( and when you research the right suspect, often you come up with big
things ) as of yet.

We can hope that the police works on him and get proof soon and then this case is over.

Fouke according to Rodelli told that Zodiac had "something" with his chin and had a flat haircut. Perhaps this could be Doerr.
Beryessa perhaps could be Doerr aswell.

I don't think so, but what if Doerr took Chesters keys? I know it's crazy, but....

Jibberjabber

8/8/2024 08:47:55 am

Well if Zodiac abducted Kathleen Johns, Fouke could be referring to acne scarring on Zodiac's chin. Johns said "Zodiac" had acne scarring on his chin

Rubislaw32 link

8/8/2024 09:28:42 am

Can't go any further with Ms Johns, anymore. She was a ''naughty girl''. A rendez-vous with a lover that went wrong when her car wouldn't re-start. Senior cops decided to ''officially'' believe her - she had had a traumatic enough experience as it was, and they felt sorry for her. The man she described, was her lover.

Johnny

8/8/2024 09:54:55 am

No, certain people dont listen. Chin large and haircut flat, thats it

Johnny

8/9/2024 03:01:26 am

Oh, i was nasty yesterday, missunderstood you. Yes, perhaps it could be like that, and Fouke never said large chin either according to Rodelli, it's was just my own speculation.

Rubislaw32 link

8/8/2024 08:56:51 am

I'm going to have a good look at Chester Clark Klingel now, Johnny. Thanks for the tip. I believe the Dec 1990 Eureka card is Zodiac-authentic.

Jibberjabber

8/8/2024 11:57:48 am

How do we know Kathleen Johns was abducted by her lover? Did he loosen the lug nuts or was all that invented?

Rubislaw32 link

8/8/2024 01:42:44 pm

Naturally we don't - but just one possible explanation of her story never adding up from start to finish. If the lower-end press of the day had got hold of what the police really thought, ''poor Ms Johns'' might have been socially hung, drawn and quartered. It is known for example, that her baby was found in a ditch close to the police station - and that she had not made it clear, for at least 15 minutes of entering the police station, that she even had a baby, let alone that it was ''missing''.

Lots of wailing and fainting fits from Ms Johns though, to start with. The ''woeman'' as Zodiac described her - a ''woman of woe''. Zodiac was being sarcastic, for having been accused of abducting her.

Rubislaw32 link

8/8/2024 02:14:32 pm

''...abducted by her lover...'' ? Those aren't my words, nor opinion. I think she and her lover had to put a story together pretty quickly. He left her close to the police station, and disappeared. With Ms Johns having to report the ''cobbled together'' story, suiting both her and him.

Quite easy to describe someone you actually know, and truthfully - even though the context of that description given, varied a good bit from the reality of events as they actually happened.

Jibberjabber

8/9/2024 12:18:54 am

She seems genuine to me, the chances of her encountering Zodiac must be miniscule but she seems to have been abducted by someone surely - if the car was burned and she had 2 hours of lost time, if her & her daughter were picked up on the freeway etc before been take to the police station etc etc? how does she benefit from such a bizarre false story though?

Rubislaw32 link

8/9/2024 01:01:27 am

Free to believe what you wish, Jibberjabber.

The ''sober reality'' I believe, and neither the police could prove otherwise either, is that Ms Johns stood to gain from ''not'' being involved in a sexual or emotional affair with another man - when pregnant and with baby, also. The social stigma would have been terrible for her - if for example, she had been charged with knowingly abandoning her baby to its potential endangerment, and wasting police time.

The police never were able to trace this ''apparent'' couple in a car, who had ''apparently'' dropped Ms Johns off, close to the police station. The couple should have had nothing to feel bad about, if they had actually existed. And why then (?) was her baby found in a ditch close to the police station. After trying to calm Ms Johns down, and get her to calmly relay what had happened to her - the police were suddenly in shock that there was a baby out there, apparently missing. Panic stations, and the police station emptied of all staff of any description - running out to try and find her baby (found quite quickly, obviously - and thankfully having come to no harm).

On the basis of Ms John's entering the police station on her own, observers would have concluded that 99 % of mothers would have been crying out : ''Help me please - my baby is missing !''. And yet, Ms Johns appeared to be only concerned about what had apparently happened to herself.

Ms Johns was to later leave her husband, and go on to be married another 4 times. She was either a bad selector of husbands, or had a less than romantic attitude to the sanctity of marriage. Yes, this last bit is a little controversial, granted.

Johnny

8/9/2024 09:59:06 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puck_(magazine)

PLANET X FILMWORKS WITH ANDREW GRAY

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