ONE MILE SOUTH OF THE MARINA

2/18/2025

Cecelia Shepard

A female student at Pacific Union College reported seeing Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard traveling south shortly after 5:15pm as she and a male companion were parked on Knoxville Road, approximately one mile south of the Lake Berryessa Marina. The Lake Berryessa Marina at 5800 Knoxville Road is about 1.4 kilometres northwest of the Dr. Rayfield sighting at around 6:30pm. Therefore, if the female student was parked up one mile south of this location, she was parked up about half a mile north of where Bryan Hartnell's Karmann Ghia was eventually found. Bryan Hartnett and Cecelia Shepard were about one minute away from parking up.

The Pacific Union College student described Bryan Hartnett and Cecelia Shepard passing them shortly after 5:15pm, so I am going to attribute 10 minutes to this description of "shortly after" (you can adjust all future times by less or more depending how you interpret "shortly"). This would have our victims being spotted about 5:25pm. If we then add one minute for Bryan Hartnett and Cecelia Shepard to reach their destination, and about 9 minutes for them to gather their belongings and reach the shores of Lake Berryessa, we have them lying down on their blanket at approximately 5:35pm.

In a revised timeline we had the Zodiac Killer finishing his attack and heading up the hillside at about 5:58pm. Bryan Hartnell stated that from the first time they spotted the man by the tree to the time he left, was a duration of 15 minutes by his estimation. That means the Zodiac Killer was hiding behind the tree at about 5:43pm. If he had spotted Bryan Hartnell's Karmann Ghia before heading down the hillside, the Zodiac Killer would have initially set eyes on their vehicle at least 6 or 7 minutes before he reached the tree. Going on the lower estimate, the Zodiac Killer would have first spotted the Karmann Ghia at 5:37pm, eleven minutes after Bryan Hartnell parked his vehicle at 5:26pm. Adjusting the definition of "shortly after" could easily alter this analysis ten minutes either way. For example, if "shortly after" was 20 minutes, it's possible the Zodiac Killer could have been trailing Bryan Hartnell and Cecelia Shepard in his vehicle as they arrived. However, if the Zodiac Killer was spotted by Dr. Rayfield & Son at approximately 6:30pm walking north at Smittle Creek, then this possibility evaporates.

A REVISED TIMELINE AT LAKE BERRYESSA

ZODCOM

2/18/2025 01:48:58 pm

Richard, thank you very much for that rare Cecilia picture!

Richard

2/18/2025 08:15:06 pm

It's an extremely pleasant picture tinged with sadness Zodcom.

Rubislaw32 link

2/20/2025 01:52:08 am

''Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. We will remember them.''

Laurence Binyon

ZODCOM

2/18/2025 01:52:00 pm

*Cecelia

EdEdwardsCiphers

2/19/2025 07:40:20 pm

Good thing you caught that name correction. It gets me every time.

Rubislaw32 link

2/20/2025 11:14:31 am

Yes, that's a pet-hate of Voigt's also. His beady eyes are always on the Reddit sub, with its 80,000 membership.

One he missed, recently, was ''Mary Jo Bates'' - a cross between Mary Jo Kopechne and Cheri Jo Bates.

Easy mistake to make ?

Rubislaw32 link

2/20/2025 11:23:05 am

Mary Jo Kopechne ? That was 90% of the Zodiac's beef against Senator Ted Kennedy, for 11 years after the Chappaquiddick tragedy - so I claim.

Abandonment of a woman, in her hour of need. Some medical reports claim Mary Jo may have survived for up to 4 hours.

Rubislaw32 link

2/20/2025 01:03:14 pm

'' Please help me I am drownding.''

Hmm.

EdEdwardsCiphers

2/20/2025 06:31:46 pm

It always confused me that behavior.

On the one hand;

"Spell the victims names right. Show some respect. By me making this claim about spelling their name right, I'm showing a moral superiority and that I'm better than you"

At the same time;

"Buy this commemorative mug and t-shirt of the victims of murder. Also here are pictures of my friends with underwear on their heads at the murder scene. Also we're having a celebration at those victims murder sites. Here are our pictures of it. You know, it's not like we're dancing on their graves. Just their murder sites. Big difference"

The cognitive dissonance for that is so odd. It spoke volumes to me of where this person mindset was.

That is a mind that has problems with a moral center.

Rubislaw32 link

2/20/2025 10:15:59 pm

Voigt always has it ''on good authority'', and from ''excellent sources''.

What a chuckle.

If any serving LE person were now found to have spoken to Voigt, they would probably be fired.

One day we, and LE might find out how it was that ''Balloon Captain 66'' (probable Zodiac) managed to become a member of his site.

Voigt has burned just too many bridges.

Johnny

2/18/2025 01:57:18 pm

It's almost impossible for 3 young ladies to estimate the Zodiac's height
this badly, as it seems they did, if the voyeur really was the perpetrator.

It was to long of a time, but its hard when they are lying down and dont have any references. His heels would make him higher, but he would be that aswell for the other witnesses.

He didn't come forward? Maybe that was because he was a voyeur?
I believe in Rayfield and i try my hardest to believe in the ladies aswell, but it's not a easy thing to do.

I think of this gentleman when i read about the ladies: https://charleyproject.org/case/charles-lorraine-hollingsworth ...but still, i guess he would then have to look alot less photogenic at the beach then in his photo in the link.

....small ears?

Richard

2/18/2025 08:50:25 pm

It's a difficult one Johnny, because the three women went from 6'0" to 6'2", Bryan Hartnell up to 6'0". Donald Fouke said about 5'10". The Robbins kids 5'8". So from observations of the definite Zodiac we have a 4 inch range. That is not particularly accurate. Heel heights can easily distort these estimates by an inch either way depending on the footwear. All the surviving victims and eyewitnesses were all under 22 years, which may play a part in accuracy. I am a much better judge of height at 62 than I was at 22 because of a longer lived experience. For example, I would never confuse a 5'8" person from somebody 6'0". Two of the three Pacific Union College women stated 6'0", whereas Donald Fouke said 5'10", so between these two we have 2 inches difference, from 2 women lying on the ground.

All I know is that Dr, Rayfield and the 3 women were in the same approximate area and both described a man that peaked their interest. The two women said 6'0" and Rayfield said 5'10". One observation initially listed at 3:30pm, and the other at 6:30pm, separated by a stabbing. Between the two women, Dr. Rayfield and Donald Fouke we have a range of only 2 inches. The Robbins kids and Mageau 5'8" - take your pick. I can't say for certain the Rayfield sighting was Zodiac but the distance from the the Karmann Ghia to Smittle Creek Day Use Area of around 20 to 25 minutes walking time, matches with the initial time given by Fong, who effectively heard cries just after the Zodiac attack finished. So the Rayfield sighting is pertinent to time.

Richard

2/18/2025 11:08:21 pm

Bryan Hartnell described the man as a minimum of 225lbs, wearing dark blue or black pleated slacks. One of the female students described a maximum weight of 225lbs. Another female student described dark blue slacks and 200lbs. The third 200/210lbs. Donald Fouke 180 to 200lbs, pleated pants.

Johnny

2/18/2025 11:57:45 pm

Yes, could be Rick. If we include Cecilias estimate according to White, we have three individuals ( and perhaps the three most probable witnesses ) saying around 5 10 and the ladies from 6 to 6 2. I think it might be Chester and he would be around 5 11 ( around Cecilias estimation ), but the best guess according height would be Zodiac without heels at most around 5 10 i would think.

But he was rather thick and perhaps edged forward somewhat when walking, and thus this will make him seem shorter then he really was, but i believe Fouke added this to the equation.

Also when being threatened this much i believe the victims believe him being larger then he really is. Around 5 9 but possible 5 10 would be my guess.

...and yes, the ladies could have seen him. The appearance besides the height is ofcourse interesting aswell.

Rich

2/21/2025 03:26:14 pm

I always find the Robbins kids description a bit of a misleading one.

look out your window at night when it's dark and try and give a detailed description of someone across the road. there is no way you can see detail of face. even with perfect eyesight.

Myrta

2/18/2025 11:36:33 pm

What a beauty she was.

Rubislaw32 link

2/18/2025 11:59:34 pm

What has always struck me as strange, Myrta, is that Bryan Hartnell in interviews referred to Cecelia as ''The girl''.

I thought that sort jargon was confined to 1930's/1940's movies ?

It's as if she was some sort of ''accompaniment''. Well, I presume he didn't mean it in an off-hand way. But strange, nonetheless.

Myrta

2/21/2025 06:03:31 pm

Yes, it is odd and people certainly spoke differently with the social mores being what they were, but I always chalked up Bryan's "the girl" comment to him feeling guilty about "stepping out" on his primary partner. Of course it's impossible to know what he was thinking, especially after experiencing such a trauma.

Rubislaw32 link

2/21/2025 09:47:29 pm

True, I think. Bryan did well to just get on with his life, after such a traumatic experience. But there must always lurk (?) regrets that he should have done more to avert Cecelia's tragedy. Neither of them knew about the Zodiac, despite the news coverage of a man (Zodiac) now on the loose for 9 months.

But, he couldn't really have foreseen the Zodiac's capacity for cruelty and cowardice, and actually stabbing them both, once tied.

As it has been noted before, ''couples'' can, ironically, be more vulnerable than single people - because then the dynamic of the male protecting the female comes into play, and usually at the advantage of the predator.

Johnny

2/19/2025 12:06:40 am

It would be very interesting if someone know the heights of the three ladies aswell. I guess for example that Myrtas idol Cecilia was a tall one.

Rubi. Maybe he wanted to be discrete about some escapades?

Rubislaw32 link

2/19/2025 02:23:58 am

I get your drift (I think), Johnny.

Bryan was a bit of a Romeo. Anything picked-up seems to indicate the couple were sometime boyfriend/girlfriend - but were about to go their separate ways, on account of education commitments.

So, Bryan was sparing Cecelia's blushes, while still alive. To an extent, ''impersonalizing'' their personal arrangement.

Johnny

2/19/2025 02:55:00 am

As you know, Rubibubi, my english isnt perfect, but this....: "So, Bryan was sparing Cecelia's blushes, while still alive. To an extent, ''impersonalizing'' their personal arrangement." ....is how i have seen it aswell.

Myrta

2/21/2025 06:30:50 pm

I agree with Johnny, you parsed that out perfectly, Rubislaw. Like the kids used to say, "It's complicated".

Johnny

2/21/2025 03:38:24 am

I know there have been messages about the Lilienthals's on Internet about the Zodiac case.

When i look at one of the Lilienthals obituary, i see St, Helena ( Friar Puck ), Berkeley ( wasn't there a possible connection? ). Also his age seems to fit perfect. Was he homosexual aswell it seems?

Im just checking leads, feel free to comment.

Rubislaw32 link

2/21/2025 06:19:28 am

Refer back to Richard's references to Spoonerisms:

Piriar Fuck ?

Rubislaw32 link

2/21/2025 06:53:05 am

That should be ''Prior''.

Avery talked about the Zodiac being a ''Cunning fox''.

''Cunning stunt'' = ''Stunning cunt''.

Johnny

2/21/2025 03:06:56 pm

Yes, your humoristic word games i like ( but you are smarter and i like Tom&Jerry,;) , but the letterwriter calling himself Friar Puck i have a very hard time looking away from, don't know about you.

Maybe Friar Puck = Friar Tuck

r.h. =Robin Hood

..and then i like the Z in the Bates letter to be Zorro, no?

Do you Rubi or someone else think that Zodiac could have sent the DB Cooper letter with "Sirs," on top?

Rubislaw32 link

2/21/2025 04:17:02 pm

It's difficult to commit to an answer with confidence, Johnny. But, there is little doubt that the Zodiac bought into ''heroes'' of fiction, such as Zorro, and I think The Scarlet Pimpernel also. Robin Hood ? Well, it looks like he was a fan of Black Bart - a highwayman who specialized in Wells Fargo stagecoaches, and was known in his time as ''California's Robin Hood''.

Where there doesn't seem to be much traction, to date, is the June 14th 1972 Private Citizens letter - leaked, I believe, through Mike Morford, by CA DOJ, in May 2022 - a rebuke to FBI's Dan Olson. Reading between the lines, there are references to three songs at the time. One of which is Bridge over Troubled Waters: ''Cat and Mouse game is finally finished'' - like a cryptic clue to a crossword puzzle. The artists ? Simon and Garfunkel, who originally called themselves ''Tom and Jerry''.

Rubislaw32 link

2/21/2025 04:49:10 pm

I would highly recommend readers check The Private Citizens letter out. Though I don't think you, Richard, are much of a fan ?

What I think trips some up is, that the postscripts have been superimposed - essentially the ''messages'' to Dan Olson, from an ''unhappy'' CA DOJ.

June 14th 1972 was American Flag Day for 1972.

The letter can be found at Tom Voigt's site, in the unconfirmed section - under the thread ''A pretty good fake ?''.

Rubislaw32 link

2/21/2025 10:37:39 pm

Ah...the assigned ''5th'' letter of the six ring-fenced by the FBI as attributed to D B Cooper. The reality ? Someone other than Dan Cooper, the actual hijacker:

December 11th 1971 - the ''I knew'' letter:

Starts: ''Sirs, I knew from the start I wouldn't be caught......I'm no modern day Robin Hood....unfortunately I do only have 14 months to live.''.

So, there is a Robin Hood reference. Incidentally, what a crock of horse sh*t over the ''14 months to live'' ? Whoever received such a specific diagnosis (?) - even, over 50 years later, today, and further advances in modern medicine.

Johnny

2/21/2025 04:55:52 pm

Could be, Rubi, but when i read the letter i feel it could have been written by a feminine hand perhaps?

Rubislaw32 link

2/21/2025 05:11:51 pm

Fair do's, Johnny. But, the Zodiac was a manipulator.

''Activity'' was probably letters - someone with experience.

To me, that Private Citizens letter ''is'' the French Connection encapsulated. And a correspondence that only the FBI and CA DOJ knew about, prior to being leaked.

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