ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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GIRL "TORTURED BY FIRE" DAYS BEFORE THE HALLOWEEN CARD

8/23/2024

 
PictureSan Francisco Chronicle, October 27th 1970
On the morning of October 27th 1970 the San Francisco Chronicle featured an article by Paul Avery entitled "A Jack the Ripper Theory on Slayings", highlighting the recent murder of Jackie Truss (16) on October 24th 1970, whose tortured, slashed and beaten nude body was discovered in the early morning hours on the "tree-lined" Laurel Street (between Jackson & Pacific Streets) in Presidio Heights. She had ligature marks on her wrists, her throat and eyelids had been slit with a knife, she had been partially disemboweled and her killer had tortured her "by fire".

Jackie Truss was the third in a series of similar murders, beginning with Brenda Joyce Vance (23) on August 4th 1970, who had also been tortured, burnt and bludgeoned to death, and found on the sidewalk of Golden Gate Avenue. On August 30th 1970 Janice Smith was discovered in a condemned dwelling on Webster Street, having been tied, slashed with a long-bladed dagger and burnt. In 1973 somebody was eventually charged with the first two murders and was thought to be responsible for the third. The final murder was unlikely to have been committed by the Zodiac Killer, but did he mail the Halloween card to Paul Avery on the afternoon of October 27th 1970 in response to the newspaper article by Paul Avery from that morning, entitled "A Jack the Ripper Theory on Slayings"? After all, the Zodiac Killer wasn't immune to insinuating his involvement in murders he played no part in. He never outright claimed the murders of Donna Lass, Kathie Snoozy and Debra Furlong, but left many cryptic clues throughout his campaign of literary terrorism suggesting he was the responsible.  

PicturePaul Avery
The Little List letter on July 26th 1970 (but not released to the public until October 12th 1970 by Paul Avery) told of the Zodiac Killer's desire to "torture all 13 of my slaves that I have waiting for me in Paradice" and that "Others shall have pine splinters driven under their nails + then burned". The Zodiac Killer continued his infatuation with torture, writing that "Others will hang by their thumbs + burn in the sun". The newspaper article below about Jackie Truss, released in the days before the Halloween card, told of a girl "tortured by fire", with a fractured skull and slit eyelids, lying on a "tree-lined" street, that were all key ingredients on the Halloween card, which contained a victim count above the skull, thirteen eyes (with eyelids and eyelashes) and the four methods of death "By Fire, By Gun, By Rope and By Knife". The Halloween card also had red eyes added to the skull on the card outer. A card that was personally addressed to Paul Avery, who had written about the knife slaying of Jackie Truss, whose body was found in Presidio Heights days earlier, who had been tortured "by fire".

Jackie had been living with a man in the Marina District at the time of her death, who police were attempting to trace at the time of this newspaper article. It was suspected that she had been murdered at a residential location and dumped adjacent to 55 Laurel Street near the Presidio Park, evident by the lack of blood at the crime scene, not withstanding the fact that this location was not conducive to such a depraved murder. It was estimated that she had been dead for less than one hour when her body was discovered by two college students on Saturday, October 24th 1970 at 2:45am.   

Thanks to Zodiac researcher Cragle for sending me this information. ​

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Johnny
8/23/2024 12:25:04 pm

Young black girls got killed in Washington a few months after this, by "Freeway phantom".

Richard
8/23/2024 01:22:48 pm

April 25, 1971 the Freeway Phantom murders began but has never been solved.

Rubislaw32 link
8/23/2024 01:38:34 pm

What's under the pumpkin has to be a ''Boner'', Richard.

After all, the Zodiac intimates he intends to exact his ''Fag Fee'' out on his ''Secret Pal'' - whoever that might be.

Some believe he was referring to Paul Avery - but as you probably know, I think differently.

As is my claim, and demonstrated by a 100% homophonic solve of Z180 (S5), ''Fag Fee'' reappears as concealed messaging (circa 1997).

Rubislaw32 link
8/23/2024 02:06:37 pm

Naturally, one shouldn't take things too literally (attempting to exist in the Zodiac's mind) - but it would be difficult to see the Zodiac illustrating that ''partial disembowelment'' of a skeleton, was a viable option.

But certainly an interesting article you have selected, with every chance that the Zodiac read it, and that it influenced him.

Richard
8/23/2024 03:02:19 pm

I have Cragle to thank for uncovering this. Looking at the FBI files, nothing was beneath the pumpkin but I suspect its purpose was to suggest something rather than to reveal something. Most people think that "Secret Pal" was referring to Zodiac himself because the card selected was "From Your Secret Pal". That seems the logical conclusion but I try not to psychoanalye the inner workings of his mind too deeply, like Rodelli does by quoting Richard Walter. Give me 100 certified psychanalysts and I'll give you 100 answers. He could have put the pumpkin on simply as dressing or it could have been chosen for purpose. I haven't found a convincing answer yet Rubislaw.

Richard
8/23/2024 03:06:37 pm

When Cragle contacted me about this I wasn't sure if he was suggesting the pumpkin/disembowement thing. Regardless, I added it onto the card anyway, without pushing the idea too much.

Rubislaw32 link
8/23/2024 03:33:06 pm

The newspaper article is appreciated, Richard, nevertheless, since it is a ''candidate read'' by the Zodiac.

I think it has become apparent that, at the very least, the FBI's view of the Zodiac case, as ex-Intelligence processors, is looking less and less ''faithful'', as time goes on. A retrospection of their Donna Lass involvement, a case in point as of December 27th 2023.

Richard Grinell
8/24/2024 02:41:43 am

If you look online it can be seen that removing or scooping the insides of a pumpkin for Halloween (or any other time) is sometimes referred to as "gutting a pumpkin", lending to the idea of disembowelment because of its placement over the lower to nether regions. I know this is a bit of a stretch and is unlikely the purpose, but it's the best thing I can offer at the moment.

Shawn
8/24/2024 12:02:30 pm

Test

Shawn
8/24/2024 12:05:24 pm

It has been pointed out before one skeleton is male and the other female. (Hip bones). I believe the pumpkin one is male.

Richard
8/24/2024 12:15:50 pm

When I was looking into the Halloween card Shawn with respect to the murder of Donna Lass, I pondered the idea that he covered the skeleton on the card outer to hide the fact it looked male and he wanted it to represent Donna Lass. However, I couldn't be sure the distinction between the two skeletons was that great to make this choice worthwhile. A case can be argued for one being male and one being female, I just wasn't convinced this was why Zodiac placed the pumpkin over it. .

TheOtherGuapo
9/18/2024 08:44:27 pm

I was wondering about this as well. There are 2 skeletons. It's also been recently discussed, how "customized" this particular card was. It was put together with much craftsmanship. Cutting and pasting, and distortions and addendums to the original card. To almost "Personalize" it. It's believe the front is original, but the mid skeleton doesn't appear to be original. Perhaps it's already been posted on here about that. But also the Back is not original. It contains the "Paradice" composition. Has anyone ever wondered if there is a unifying theme amongst all of those items? Why is there a skeleton on the front, and the middle, but not on the back? And could all 3 'customized' pieces come together somehow under some Rubric? Some kind of system? Like a puzzle, do all of those pieces 'fit' together somehow?

Johnny
8/24/2024 03:42:06 am

Maybe Zodiac is idiosyncratic often aswell? I read an interview with D. Harden that gave an impression like that, and because you seem divided sometimes, maybe he is somewhat of an poser and also only he knows what he means if even that.

This possible idosyncratism will not ofcouse take away symmetry in his letters aswell that you may get things out of.

You see, when i see this postcard, i think of the pumpkin as clothing
that prevents us from seeing his real persona, and when we open the card the visual obstacle is gone, but ofcourse he doesn't give us anything anyway, just his bragging, but definitely not his identity.

Tuck by the way was a jester. I think that "Friar Tuck" from the St. Helena newspaper probably was Zodiac? I tried to look through more papers from St. Helena for similar writings but no avail.

I'm somewhat impressed and wonder about why we can't get at the Zodiac despite his many writings? This would tend to point towards him being random ( idiosyncratic ) in many ways.



Rubislaw32 link
8/24/2024 04:24:22 am

I'm not sure if it helps or hinders the debate, over the pumpkin (clearly a recognized symbol of Halloween), but I remember reading a claim that when the card was first removed by someone at Chronicle offices (mail room), the pumpkin fell off the card. It had hung loose, but with a some sort of adhesive tape attachment. In essence, that the Zodiac intended the pumpkin as a ''covering flap'', inviting the reader to look beneath.

Johnny
8/24/2024 04:38:49 am

For me it would be even more complicated. Then we have potentially two bare skeletons.

They say that Doerr had some type of connection to Avery, maybe "secret pal" may be a refernce to that, or if not, just their communication per letters.

Rublaw32 link
8/24/2024 04:54:59 am

''...potentially two skeletons.'' ? Yes by inference, but that the Zodiac may have added something to the pelvic region. The point being that the pumpkin in itself, serves only as the ''flap''.

It certainly appears that the Zodiac wanted the card to appear to be directed at Paul Avery. But whether it actually was, is a matter of debate. The receiving of the card, and its removal from the envelope - just didn't happen like in the 2007 movie. Although Avery was naturally informed it probably was meant for him.

Johnny
8/24/2024 04:46:06 am

I wonder though, what are the odds of these two Lincoln stamps. I think these type of half-proofs is the way to go. Then someone has to come up with an idea to connect these letter to a certain person or atleast exclude people.

The Badlands letter is most certainly Zodiac according to me. Why did he post it from a different location? That's the thing i know people has been getting at, but this is good things to have in your backpocket always to either exclude or include people in the case.

Rubislaw32 link
8/24/2024 05:15:15 am

Yes, I'm convinced the Badlands card is from Zodiac. Just not sure about the signing ''A citizen'', which I believe may have been superimposed by FBI processors.

Rubislaw32 link
8/24/2024 06:18:41 am

Badlands letter: Kit & Holly were killing people in 1959. Zee & Dee were killing time in 1965 - Southern California.

Johnny
8/24/2024 10:17:00 am

What do you say about the letter to the editor "Friar Puck", Rubi? You think this is the Zodiac?

Johnny
8/24/2024 10:22:14 am

If its him, i think we can pretty safely say he "atleast" was around 30 in -68?

What would it say more about him?

Rubislaw32 link
8/24/2024 10:52:37 am

I'm not overly persuaded - but neither am I against. Someone else was bound to refer to The Mikado in print. That and the Everly Brothers were my first listening experiences, when a toddler. There seemed to be a revival in Gilbert & Sullivan, in the wake of Richard Rogers stage and film musicals - late '50's.

The Zodiac would be attracted to Friar Puck, simply as a spoonerism - ''Priar *uck''. That, and others like Cunning Stunts - ''Stunning C*nts''..

Johnny
8/24/2024 11:42:42 am

Yes, you have a very good point. Certain things though might be suspicious. He chooses to be anonymous ( maybe because his parents, relatives still alive ) and signs off with probably a jester meaning name.

He is showing himself bitter of life and with his anonymity, i guess its called passive aggressive. I think he's age fit, if he is lets say 20-25 in -55, he would be mid thirties in -68.

Often these types goes through depression in youth before acting out, and he still don't take on responsibility, instead prefer to be an hateful anonymous jester, all with perfect control despite him not being able to handle it all the time. Not in a social society atleast.

Im also of the opinion that Zodiac probably is on the older side, despite my thoughts about Mageaus description. I think Richard said 38 at one time. Zodiac says himself me:37, maybe that means 36 or 38.

Could Beryessa be the key? They came from St. Helena, Brian talked somewhat about his voice, it was a personal crime and why he had the uniform on, maybe was because they knew each other somewhat? I don't like either that he didn't brag more about this spectacular crime.

I think Zodiac may have been responsible for starting fires around St. Helena.

I hear what you say about Mikado, but "Friar "Puck" seems a bit to mature in this letter i think. I would think a young man somewhat more spicy would suit better
according to what you say. As it is he sounds Zodiac like to me, so very serious and controlled in his being.

Rubislaw32 link
8/24/2024 11:56:19 am

''Starting fires'' tweaks an interest, in that he seems to have always been interested in looking at novel ways to be mischievous. I don't think he was daft enough to deliberately start one in an enclosed space or building. Causing just one death can get you life-imprisonment. But, may have been the type to start them on hills and moorland. Then drive a safe distance away, and watch for the fire brigade to arrive.

Johnny
8/24/2024 12:21:28 pm

I think exactly like you about the fires, Rubi. I would want earlier smaller fires, but this fire stands out as possibly human caused: watson gulch fire 1961

Rubislaw32 link
8/28/2024 08:56:13 am

The ''enigma'' of some believing Cheri Jo Bates to be a Zodiac victim:

Firstly, Cheri Jo Bates is NOT a confirmed Zodiac victim. Case custodians CA DOJ deem her not to be one. Just the 5 Bay area ones, to date.

Some confusion, not helped by Voigt allocating confirmed status at his site. Voigt's terms of reference are the hand-out circulars at the November 1970 Law Enforcement summit, which CA DOJ hosted, in the wake of Avery's ''exclusive'' on the Bates correspondences.

CA DOJ wanted a fresh start to Zodiac investigations, with agreed protocol on communications between, themselves, the FBI and CA PD's with possible Zodiac links.

Given that CA DOJ documents examiner Sherwood Morrell was indicating that the Bates correspondences were by the hand of Zodiac - gave the FBI justification for making the argument that they should take over the Cheri Jo Bates murder investigation.

Riverside PD protested this - clearly not wanting ''Feds'' walking in and taking over in their ''backyard''.

CA DOJ agreed that there were not sufficient claims by FBI that Cheri Jo was a victim of the Zodiac. CA DOJ did, though, award the FBI custody of the Bates correspondences - which the FBI had to retrieve from the US Postal Fraud Department, where they had been languishing unattended to.

CA DOJ have final say on any decision Zodiac-related - and they have never confirmed Cheri Jo as a Zodiac victim.

Cragle
8/24/2024 02:18:11 pm

To play devils advocate. Only once did Zodiac seemingly take credit that was before Lake Herman Road and that was poor Cheri Jo Bates. When taking credit he knew he could not retrospectively adjust his tally so he simply added a + at the end. If then he was claiming an earlier crime why would he not do this on the Halloween card. ?

Richard
8/24/2024 04:14:14 pm

Good point. That is what he did on March 13th 1971 regarding Cheri. I have zero doubt both the 1980s letters were genuine. Most people believe the 1986 statement "The body count is growing now 100+ all over the state of Ca and Na", meant California and Nevada. But why would he add Nevada but for the discovery of Donna Lass' body a few months earlier. On this letter, he too added a plus sign, despite claiming 100 victims. Why add the plus, if the plus wasn't connected to Nevada, just like the plus denoted Riverside.

Rubislaw32 link
8/24/2024 08:55:58 pm

Just a minor point perhaps, Richard, but always wanted to share.

He wrote it like this : '' - 100 + ''.

This could be interpreted in two ways:

1) One hundred plus.

2) Plus or minus one hundred.

The difference is the degree of ''swagger'' and/or his duplicity.

I think sometimes he was in a ''bravado'' mood, willing to accept any accusations, if it bolstered his ''fear factor''. And at other times chose to be more reticent and cagey - leaving his claims ''up in the air''.

''Riverside activity'' will always be the doubt as to whether he was referring to extortion means, , like letters - or bodies.

Until, of course, the whole truth emerges from the horse's mouth, himself.

Rubislaw32 link
8/24/2024 10:13:02 pm

Ah...he does the same for the March 13th 1971 letter:

'' - 17 + ''. Either, ''Seventeen plus'' or '' Plus or minus seventeen''.

Richard
8/25/2024 12:32:31 am

I would interpret it as a hyphen. Either way, the timing of the 1986 letter could be Graysmith inspired, crime inspired or because of Donna's remains being found (or multiples of some or all). The timing of the 1986 letter, eight years after the previous known letter, containing likely Nevada, just 4 months after her remains were found, is pretty interesting. Of course, if Nevada was referring to the victim Donna Lass, it would mean Zodiac knew the identity of the bones and had to be her murderer. I'm still not sure.

Rubislaw32 link
8/25/2024 01:33:38 am

Indeed, Richard - a good point over the 1986 letter ''Nevada'' mention, and the recent declaration on Donna's skull history (1986).

Something to bear in mind, going forward.

Jibberjabber
8/25/2024 12:55:56 am

Just something I found the other day which is weird, when I GOOGLED "Jackie Truss Zodiac victim" to try and find out more about this case, I was taken to a website about Zodiac, it mentioned a Jackie Truss being killed around Halloween 1970 in SF but says Jackie Truss was a gay male working in a gay nightclub in San Francisco.

I believe it has to be a mistake as Richard's original article has the newspaper clippings and I would have to take them as gospel here. but it is weird how the details on this questersite have came to be recorded so incorrectly. There couldnt have been 2 people with the same name killed at the same time could there but one a male one a female??

I need to look into this more

https://questersite.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/

Jibberjabber
8/25/2024 12:59:25 am

I should say it is a BIG article but if you search on the word "Truss" using CTRL+F it will take you to the part

https://questersite.wordpress.com/category/uncategorized/

Richard
8/25/2024 06:23:24 am

That is extremely weird, bearing in mind the newspaper articles above paint a totally different picture and a totally different gender, but have the same date. Where did Gian Quasar get this information?

Johnny
8/25/2024 07:37:01 am

If you don't find her/ him in the death archive it might be a street name.

What a strange thing to say, "look older then her age", could it be a f*g? They shouldn' t write these things if it isn't anything important to solve the crime or something like that.

Johnny
8/25/2024 02:52:40 am

I think the pumpkin is only two things, halloween and to hide Zodiacs persona. And where do you put the pumpkin otherwise? Either on the head or as a miniskirt i would say. The miniskirt would do a better dramatisation, and it fits somewhat, so therefore i think he choose that one.

Could it be some type of further reference? Sure 10 or 100's of them i can come up with just as good and idiosyncratic. Very good you looking at this aspect though! Personally i will tell right away if you come up with something good, but not yet as i see it.

Johnny
8/25/2024 02:56:29 am

...and Rubis post about the possibe add-on of the pumpkin may be
correct, if it was easier for Zodiac to add a separate part instead of drawing it by hand. Could this mean anything? Perhaps just a double take on the cards original meaning. If he meant something further i think he would change something below the pumpkin.

Rubislaw32 link
8/25/2024 04:50:40 am

One agency that knows what's under the pumpkin is ex-Intelligence processors FBI, Johnny. A second agency, case custodians CA DOJ ''ought to know'', because it was the FBI's obligation, and in CA DOJ's service, to tell and show CA DOJ, absolutely everything.

Sadly over time, that doesn't appear to have always happened - to CA DOJ's chagrin.

So, I'm sticking with the Zodiac having depicted a ''Boner'' under the pumpkin.

Johnny
8/25/2024 05:10:18 am

Correct. Of course we don't know whats under if there is. The pumpkin is also similar to a " testicle".

...and sure, i guess you also agree, Rubi, that the skeleton inside the card is more similar to a female? Smaller bones definitely, but if this is the meaning of not i have no idea about.

Excuse me, but could a human eye or something hide below the pumpkin? I would think it wouldn' t fit though!

Johnny
8/25/2024 03:24:48 am

4-teen could mean that he has killed four teenagers, which he has, right?

And the leftside peek-a-boo is hate pointed to us discussing this card, because he ofcourse wants to be omnipotent through sheer willpower, but because he is a human being he will forever be divided and he can't stand it! He will make us suffer for it. That's ok Zodiac, if people only knew you wouldn't have to do this things to get acceptance.

Rubislaw32 link
8/25/2024 05:33:16 am

Yes, you could be right about ''4-teen'', Johnny. I haven't seen anything better offered.

I find it interesting that in all the years of Z-internet forums, no one has yet established the source of the second skeleton. Where did the Zodiac acquire it, to add to the card.

My only conclusion is that it came in the form of a free gift inside of a cereal box, offered in the run-up to Halloween. Food companies that provided cereal products, like Kellogg's Corn Flakes, were always offering little gifts inside, to entice mothers to buy their product for children, specifically. The best bet to find the source of the 2nd skeleton might be to contact food consortiums, like Nabisco.

Cragle
8/26/2024 01:28:36 am

When the HC was sent he had only killed and taken credit for 3 teens (if Snoozy / Furlong included then would have been 5), it couldn’t have been hinting towards CJB as shown by the + in the little list letter. As such I think a strong argument can be made that this card was hinting towards his 14th victom who was his “Four (fourth) teen”.

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 02:30:37 am

Absolutely, Cragle, the Zodiac has employed ''4-TEEN'' for phonetic reasons:

It sounds just like ''fourteen''. The only dispute further, is the precise reason the Zodiac wrote it as ''4-TEEN''.

He was often motivated in eccentric ways. PARA can mean ''FOR'' in Spanish. DICE means ''TEN'' in French. Put them together:

PARA DICE = FOR TEN

FOR TEN = 14

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 03:05:07 am

...Indeed, '' Four-ten''. With '' teen'' 's derivation being ''ten'' in Old English.

But, with the back of the Halloween card specifically in mind, I think there's a good chance that the Zodiac actually wrote : PAPA DICE.

PAPA DICE means ''Father says'' in Spanish. A declaration from the Zodiac that his father has declared ? Whatever next ?

''Only'' that the FBI have been ''naughty boys'' playing around with the Halloween card. But, surely the FBI have always behaved with impeccable probity and propriety ? Think on.

Johnny
8/26/2024 03:28:07 am

My misstake, Cragle because Cecilia was older, and Rubi has already taken it on, but still it could be because his arrogance, but all this is speculation of course.

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 03:43:29 am

I've only conceded that ''4-Teen'' might refer to teenagers. I'm not doing the numbers on this - only those that put the ''teenager'' notion forward.

It might also involve a nod to the Robbins kids also, for example.

Richard
8/27/2024 06:02:06 am

No, he was claiming 4 teens by October 27th 1970. Snoozy, Furlong, Faraday and Jensen.

Rubislaw32 link
8/27/2024 07:16:37 am

That looks a whole lot better, Richard.

He never got Werner's victims out of his system - as with Z148 tended to infer later.

johnny
8/27/2024 04:04:01 pm

No, Cragle had a point, Rick need proofs. This is not right.


Rubislaw32 link
8/27/2024 05:49:50 pm

Z 148 : ''I will skin three little kids and make a suit from their skin.''.

Snoozy & Furlong....then Bilek (April 1971). and after Halloween 1970..

It's always going to be difficult to prove anything that's not actually confirmed authentic Zodiac.

Richard
8/27/2024 10:45:09 pm

Taking away Snoozy and Furlong, name the three teenagers he killed or claimed to have killed by Oct 27 1970?

Rubislaw32 link
8/28/2024 12:35:21 am

A case made, for Farraday, Jensen, Snoozy & Furlong as the ''4-TEENS''.

It is retrospectively known that SFPD elected to leave the accusation against the Zodiac for Snoozy & Furlong ''open'', until investigators San Jose PD proved otherwise.

Rubislaw32 link
8/28/2024 01:21:15 am

Naturally (LOL), I can't wait to dive in there with my claim that the back of the Halloween card was exclusively about victims Darlene, Cecilia and Paul:

1) By-Gum, by Pope - Yum-Yum (Darlene) in the Texas Mikado, by Zodiac's Secret Pa, William Grant.

2) By-Knife - Old version of the ''Swiss Knife'', of which a sword dagger was the largest implement (Cecelia).

3) ''By Fare'' - the Zodiac offering Paul a $10 tip as an advance.

Interesting that ''Peek-A-Boo'' is another of the Three Maids in the Texas Mikado (Pam or another sister ?). ''Pretty Thing'' making up the trio of Texas Mikado Maids.

Were Intelligence processors FBI ''playing dirty'' (?), when they took custody of the Halloween card, October 27th 1970 - promising to deliver usable copies for the SF Chronicle, and their ''Halloween Day exclusive'' on October 31st 1970, 4 days later.

''Brick-bats'' accepted.

Johnny
8/28/2024 04:34:09 am

I have them all as teens, Rick. Maybe im Zodiac myself ( watch out a little, Rubi, Rick and everybody, boooo!. )
Now we are down to only two teens, and i will defintely be more careful with numbers in the future.

Cov... won yesterday in the cup, everything seems alright to me. My team lost though with 0-2, which team is that? Im the Zoodiaaac....

Rubislaw32 link
8/28/2024 07:36:53 am

But it is 4, Johnny, at the time of the Halloween card:

Zodiac was claiming for Faraday & Jensen (truthfully). And, claiming for Snoozy & Furlong (dishonestly). But, he was still claiming.

4-TEEN is ''perpetuating the myth'' of 4.

But you are correct that it was actually only 2 (Faraday & Jensen).

Johnny
8/28/2024 08:32:31 am

yeah yea, you are right

Rubislaw32 link
8/29/2024 12:41:21 pm

Yes - not in an artistic way - I agree with you.

But, the mete of it really comes down to what they (the skeletons) represent, as depicted by the hand of the Zodiac, who is the author of the card.

The first skeleton: The Zodiac, and the one who is threatening.

The second skeleton: The person who is on the receiving end of Zodiac's threat.

''Paul Averly'' ? Or, '' Pa - u - lav - erly'' ? Referring to the Zodiac's knowledge of his father's ''ablutions time'', on account of stalking him, any old time of the day.

Johnny
8/25/2024 05:11:47 am

Erection you say! That would be something.

Rubislaw32 link
8/25/2024 05:42:32 am

Probably an ''unfeasibly large'' one, in relation to the skeleton, since the Zodiac had a high opinion of himself. Could be in the shape of an actual bone, like a femur - just for ''artistic effect''.

Johnny
8/25/2024 05:58:42 am

https://images.app.goo.gl/K57oWdYfzFDpfpby7

Somewhat similar.

Johnny
8/26/2024 03:52:32 am

Xenophon Anthony had his birthday i guess the day the Excorcist letter was sent? I have always thought that "me 37" refers Zodiac age some way. Have you noticed this coincidence before, i guess you have?

I guess if it's Anthony it would put him at his 39th birthday, please correct me if i have my figures wrong.

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 04:04:13 am

I'm in a different ball-park on that one, Johnny. You'd need to confer with someone that sees Anthony as anything but an innocent bystander on the Washington Street night in question.

But - to declare my hand on ''37'', it is the official number of passengers who were subjected to a highjacking by one ''Dan Cooper''. The Zodiac's (false) claims were wide and varied.

Johnny
8/26/2024 04:11:00 am

You associate and i do numbers, feel free to write whatever, i like to read it all.

No, Xenophon wouldn't fit any profile, thats for sure, but numbers don't lie if theres more to it aswell.

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 04:40:03 am

Yes - the numbers in themselves don't lie as Zodiac chooses to write them down. All too true, Johnny.

As regards the 6 ''D B Cooper'' letters that FBI have chosen to confirm as official D B Cooper ones:

When Tom Colbert took the FBI to court, and lost, claiming the FBI were withholding information that incriminated his Cooper suspect Robert Rackstraw - The FBI explained to the court of law that the evidence they hold is a DNA profile gleaned from the black suit tie that ''Dan Cooper'' left behind in the aircraft.

In addition, the FBI explained to the court of law that they had yet to ascertain who this DNA belonged to - AND that they did not know whether ''Dan Cooper'' survived or perished in his jump. On this evidence, the FBI defeated Tom Colbert, in Colbert's assertions that they, the FBI, were withholding any further ''transparencies'' than this.

So - how is it that the FBI have chosen to, as D B Cooper case custodians, ''confirm'' 6 D B Cooper correspondences ?

The only answer is an admission from FBI, yet publicly articulated, that the author of those ''confirmed '' 6 letters - is someone other than the Dan Cooper who highjacked & jumped.

The Exorcist letter, I believe, is the Zodiac's ''tongue-in-cheek exorcism'' for having been the highjacker. But - is actually the writer of the correspondences, including the 6 ''confirmed'' by the FBI.

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 08:31:16 am

A comparison example:

Jacksonville FL, March 28th 1972, D B Cooper's ''A Rich Man'' letter:

''This letter is to let you know that I am not dead, but really alive.''

Albany NY, August 1st 1973, Zodiac's ''Albany'' letter:

''You were wrong, I am not dead or in the hospital. I am alive.''

And, there we have it (perhaps controversially) - The Zodiac's work-posting to France, defined :

Between: March 28th 1972 and August 1st 1973.

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 08:40:25 am

Well, the Zodiac did warn us with the ''A Rich Man'' letter - although it was just across the pond, to France:

''I am going around the world and they will never find me. I am smarter than the system's lackey cops.''.

Johnny
8/26/2024 08:44:20 am

Who is Cooper then?

Rubislaw32 link
8/26/2024 08:56:42 am

It's still the same situation for the FBI: They are confident they have his DNA profile, but have been unable to match it with anyone. They think his black tie was purchased in Las Vegas. Strangely,'' Dan Cooper'' collected all his cigarette butts, and took them with him when he jumped. So, leaving his tie behind was his only mistake.....until he jumped ?

Rubislaw32 link
8/29/2024 03:15:47 am

It would be all too easy to ridicule Tom Colbert over taking the FBI to court. He remains the only member of public to do so in the ''generally amateur sleuth world'' - and as much as he might claim otherwise, got his ars* tanned. Probably bankrupted on being landed with all legal costs (?).

But to go from that, to then involve himself in the ''Gary Poste fiasco'' is a little puzzling. The first error he made, was to assume the FBI are Zodiac case custodians, on the basis that the FBI hold this position with the D B Cooper case. Almost comical that Colbert should take his frustrations out on the FBI, when it is actually CA DOJ who hold all the ''ace cards'' of Zodiac knowledge.

And ''little wonder'' (?) Riverside PD claim that Colbert's inquiries over the Cheri Jo Bates case and FBI's San Bernardino Man/Delinquent claim - largely involved the purportedly $50,000 reward.

I have stated openly, and on a number of occasions - if anyone has a Z-tip they believe in, there are currently only two agencies you should approach: CA DOJ and SFPD. Avoid the FBI ''like the plague''.

Rubislaw32 link
8/29/2024 05:38:24 am

From feed-back of a few in recent times, that have approached CA DOJ (Sacramento) with Z-tips: CA DOJ are always courteous in their replies, and usually quite prompt.

The ''Litmus Test'' ? If CA DOJ refer you, with your information to SFPD. SFPD are the willing ''bin merchants'' for any incoming information of no pertinence in furthering the Zodiac case. If CA DOJ were interested, they might engage with you, themselves.

Any chance of Mr Colbert trying that route with his ''irrefutable'' Gary Poste's ''posse'' and ''Gary's wooden post'' ? Not likely.

Rubislaw32 link
8/29/2024 06:03:25 am

And, if you were to send your tip simply to SFPD ? You might be in luck if they were to inform you that they were forwarding it on to CA DOJ.

Those that latch on to something, and actually avoid CA DOJ on either a primary or secondary basis, really ought to be viewed with suspicion - if only not possessing the courage of their convictions. But, more often than not, it will transpire that they are fishing for a book & documentary deal.

Johnny
8/29/2024 09:44:19 am

You said, Rubi that the skeleton inside the card havent been
localised. Don't you think these two skeleton is looking rather similar?

The colours are similar and also the orange Halloween colour at the eyes.

Rubislaw32 link
8/29/2024 10:35:23 am

Certainly not meaning to sound flippant, Johnny, but it's difficult to imagine skeletons that looked distinctly different. Whoever the second skeleton is meant to represent (Avery ?, Grant ?), the Zodiac did have an axe to grind with someone the Zodiac was eyeing up as his 14th victim. Even if only by the act of b*ggery.

Whether the mask is intended to be red or orange, I'm not sure. This is a debate that keeps cropping up - mostly on account that Tom Voigt is adamant that it is orange, when others argue the case that it is red which has faded. Strange (?) those little debating points that internet sleuths can never get past ?

Johnny
8/29/2024 12:06:33 pm

No, maybe the similarity is because they are skeletons. They aren't exact in any way either so.

Johnny
8/26/2024 08:51:02 am

Im not convinced by that type of wording, the same i said to, Rick. Im more convinced with the exact ( more or less ) same type of words "when they are not included in a block of text". The odds will be much lower that way.

Johnny
8/26/2024 09:18:06 am

I think maybe he thought the cigarettes would have blood on them.

Personally i have no clue who Db Cooper was.

Johnny
8/26/2024 09:20:40 am

Only one thing i have to say about it. The phantom sketch shows a thin face. Females often have thinner faces with finer features. Barbara i think was a suspect. I don't think Db Cooper was a female before, but who kniows?

Johnny
8/26/2024 09:34:19 am

Sorry. This is it: Robert Dayton became Barbara Dayton


Now soccer for me. Get in her later tonight.


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