ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
  • Home
    • Search This Site With Google
    • The Mount Diablo Map and Code Solution
  • Zodiac News
    • Zodiac News Archive
    • Santa Barbara Attack
    • Cheri Jo Bates
    • The Confession
    • Riverside Desktop Poem
    • Bates Letter
    • The Forgotten Victims
    • Welsh Chappie - Zodiac News
  • Lake Herman Murders
    • Blue Rock Springs Attack
    • Vallejo Times Letter
    • Examiner Letter
    • Chronicle Letter
    • Complete 408 Cipher
    • Vallejo and Benicia Map
    • Kathie Snoozy and Debra Furlong Murders
    • Debut of Zodiac Letter
  • Lake Berryessa Attack
    • Presidio Heights Attack
    • Call to Chat Show
  • 340 Cipher
    • Bus Bomb Letter
    • Betsy Aardsma Murder
    • The Fairfield Letter
    • Melvin Belli Letter
    • Santa Barbara Murders 1970
    • Modesto Attack
    • My Name is Cipher
    • Dragon Card and Button Letter >
      • Phillips Road Map
    • The Sleeping Bag Murders
    • The Little List Letter
  • The Halloween Card
    • Lake Tahoe Disappearance
    • Los Angeles Times Letter
    • The Monticello Card
    • The Exorcist Letter
  • SLA Letter
    • Red Phantom Letter/American Greetings Card
    • The 1978 Letter
    • Los Angeles Times Newspaper Articles
    • Zodiac Letters Real or Fake
    • Zodiac Documentary
    • Unsolved Mysteries
    • The Colonial Parkway Murders
  • Suspects
    • Arthur Leigh Allen
    • Rick Marshall
    • Lawrence Kane
    • Theodore Kaczynski
    • Richard Gaikowski
    • Gareth Penn
    • Jack Tarrance

DID THE ZODIAC PASS THE WALKING CHICKEN?

12/22/2024

 
Picture
I would like to revisit the abduction of Kathleen Johns (22) just west of Modesto on March 22nd 1970, considered by many the primary outlier beyond the canonical four in the Bay Area. After the murder of Paul Stine in Presidio Heights on October 11th 1969 his brother, Joe Stine, issued a combative challenge to the Zodiac Killer on television and in the newspapers to come and hunt him down, giving the address of his workplace at 706 Sutter Avenue, Modesto, and the location of La Von's Walking Chicken where he lunched at noon most days. His open invitation of the Zodiac to Modesto was heavily frowned upon by investigators because authorities believed it endangered the lives of people around him and the wider community. The thought being that the Zodiac Killer may have opted to accept the challenge and target Modestans to prove he could murder anywhere.

​This is why the claimed attack on Kathleen Johns cannot be overlooked, who stated in the police report that she thought she had been trailed by a vehicle from Modesto to the area of South Bird Road on Highway 132, a distance of approximately 19 miles. Although her recollections are often contradictory, it must be considered significant that she may have been followed by a suspicious vehicle from Modesto, that she later claimed was the Zodiac Killer, who could have chosen his fifth attack anywhere in California, but began his "hunt" in the very city that Joe Stine laid down his challenge. Modesto is 90 miles from the murder site of Paul Stine in Presidio Heights, so what are the chances this was pure happenstance? How likely is it that Kathleen Johns had read or seen the challenge by Joe Stine in October 1969 and waited five months to concoct a story of abduction, putting her 10-month-old daughter and unborn child through unnecessary hardship to initiate this elaborate hoax? 

PictureJoe Stine, October 23rd 1969
Furthermore, her route from San Bernardino to Highway 132 had been achieved by traveling on Highway 99, which passed only 4,600 feet from the 706 Sutter Avenue workplace of Joe Stine, where he worked as a mechanic at the Richfield Service Station. La Von's Walking Chicken was slightly closer at 4,375 feet from Higway 99. Admittedly, this would have been late at night on a Sunday when these premises were shut, but if this was the Zodiac Killer, where had he been in the 48 hours previous? Had he picked up her trail in this location and decided to enact an alternative crime to his original intentions? 

​If the Zodiac Killer had trailed Kathleen Johns from Modesto, then it isn't inconceivable that he passed right by the workplace of Joe Stine five months after being issued the challenge. Another striking feature of the challenge was that the accompanying pictures in the many newspapers on October 23rd 1969 (including the San Francisco Chronicle), showed Joe Stine working at the Richfield Service Station close to the wheel of an elevated vehicle (it may have been the right rear wheel). Especially when we consider that the "Zodiac Killer" operated as a mechanic on the rear wheel of Kathleen Johns vehicle, five months later. Originally, Kathleen Johns claimed that the Zodiac Killer had turned onto South Chrisman Road and entered the Richfield Service Station/ARCO gas station, two miles west of her abandoned vehicle. However, finding it closed, the unidentified "Good Samaritan" continued on Highway 132 towards the city of Tracy. This detail was curiously dispensed with in some of her current and later retellings of the story.

​Had this been true, we would have had Joe Stine working near the wheel of a vehicle at the Richfield Service Station in the newspapers, which Zodiac passed by 5 months later, who then disabled the wheel of Kathleen Johns vehicle, before taking her two miles down the highway to a Richfield Service Station. All the ingredients for a good story was available in the newspapers, either concocted by Kathleen Johns or fashioned by the Zodiac Killer. If this seemed too clever a belated design by Kathleen Johns, it certainly wasn't for the Zodiac Killer, who we know liked a challenge.

Picture
SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE, OCTOBER 23RD 1969
PictureKathleen Johns (22)
Kathleen Johns was quoted in the police report, saying that the suspect "went west on Highway 132 and pulled into a Richfield service station that was closed. It is believed by undersigned to be Chrisman Road". Whether or not she identified the gas station as Richfield or ARCO, free from equivocation, would have been useful information to know. There was a large glowing sign above the gas station on South Chrisman Road identifying it as an ARCO, so anybody traveling on Highway 132 would have known where to refill, but they wouldn't necessarily know it was a Richfield Service Station unless they were familiar with this location (because it was over 800 feet from Highway 132). 

​ARCO was established in 1966 as the Atlantic Richfield Company, an independent oil and gas company formed from the merger of Atlantic Petroleum and the Richfield Oil Corporation. If Kathleen Johns had literally told police her abductor drove her to a "Richfield Service Station", then this may have made her story more credible, because from Highway 132 it would only have been recognisable as an ARCO for a first time visitor (unless signposted). Or she was given this name by her abductor. If her story was completely fabricated and no abductor existed, there would have been no need to invoke the name "Richfield", that the "undersigned" believed to be the gas station on Christman Road. That is why the story of her abductor taking her to this gas station, being omitted from her later stories, is unusual. It tends to support her story rather than negate it. Especially considering this gas station would have been unidentifiable from 2 miles away (from slightly east of South Bird Road), where the presumed abduction began. Maybe the story of a seemingly helpful man at this point in time didn't fit the menacing narrative wanted to be portrayed in later accounts. It must be stressed that the police reports also carried the story of an abductor who never made any attempts to visit a service station, making this case extremely difficult to formulate any consistent narrative. 

Picture
CLICK IMAGE TO VIEW ON GOOGLE MAPS
Picture
Four months after the Kathleen Johns affair, on July 24th 1970, the Zodiac Killer admitted that he "gave a rather intersting ride for a coupple howers one evening a few months back that ended in my burning her car where I found them". On October 27th 1970 he incorporated "by fire" into his crime methodology within the Halloween card, which he followed up by a further communication on March 13th 1971, mailed from Pleasanton. The city of Pleasanton would have been a location passed by the Zodiac Killer had he set "fire" to Kathleen Johns vehicle and headed back to the Bay Area.

​If this abduction was committed by the Zodiac Killer, it is extremely unlikely he took a 180 mile round trip from the Bay Area just for the sole purpose of randomly abducting a woman nearing midnight. Either there was a more sinister purpose to his visit over the previous hours or days in Modesto that failed to transpire - or knowing he had upcoming business dealings or relations in this area, seized the opportunity to bring his terror to the very location where Joe Stine lived (we know that Chester Clark Klingel lived in Hughson, close to Modesto, subsequent to 1970, and had relatives in Turlock prior to this year). Did 
Chester Clark Klingel cross paths with the Zodiac Killer on one of the killer's continued dealings in this locality? 

Despite this presentation making a case for the Zodiac Killer being in Modesto on March 22nd 1970, it is extremely difficult to see past the many inconsistencies in the story of Kathleen Johns - not only at the time - but in the dramatized account portrayed in the Zodiac book by Robert Graysmith, that actually weakened her case still further. However, the sheer fact that the brother of Paul Stine (Zodiac's last known victim) laid down a challenge to the Bay Area murderer to come to Modesto - and the next major Zodiac story had its roots in Modesto - has to raise some eyebrows. Either Kathleen Johns, after reading the challenge by Joe Stine, deliberately fashioned a story about being followed from Modesto, to be subsequently abducted by the Bay Area murderer, or the Zodiac Killer specifically targeted this area of California after reading the bravado exhibited by Joe Stine many months earlier. But how would Kathleen Johns have known that a sketch of the Zodiac Killer would have been conveniently available to her at the Patterson Police Department, for her to say "that is the man that abducted me"? In absence of the sketch, she would have had to initiate the story using her knowledge of the sketch from elsewhere. For many Zodiac researchers, the jury is still out on the abduction of Kathleen Johns.

Rubislaw32 link
12/22/2024 03:16:37 am

''...a rather intersting ride..'' ? I like that, Richard, and had not noticed it before.

''Inter-sting'' : An agreement between law enforcement agencies that they would officially believe Kathleen's version of events - in the interests of provoking the Zodiac back to corresponding.

The Zodiac did start corresponding again in 1970 - but it doesn't appear to have been on account of the claims of Ms Johns.

The ''woeman'' or ''woman of woe'', on account of reports that she did a lot of crying and having ''fainting episodes'', when police were trying to get some sense out of her, at what had just happened.

Rubislaw32 link
12/22/2024 03:30:27 am

P.S. If any event, it looks like the murder of Robert Salem - did the trick in enticing the Zodiac back to corresponding. ''Someone'' sent the ''decorators'' round to Salem's flat, to do some ''adjustments'' to his walls.

Rubislaw32 link
12/22/2024 03:58:51 am

What went up on Salem's walls ?

Something of note, perhaps, was ''Satan Saves'' - denoted in numerology by ''666'' - the Devil's number.

So - part of the Zodiac's ''symbolism'' employed in his Z13 was ''888'' - the Angel's number. Effectively, ''Jesus saves'', as a retort.

inowhodidit
12/25/2024 07:55:25 pm

Could it be a coy reference to DeAngelo?

Richard link
12/22/2024 04:25:37 am

The timing of the Chronicle account of Salem's murder with the April 20th letter is extremely likely the cause and effect of Zodiac's return, but there appears no overt or hidden reference to Modesto in this letter. The nearest I got (although not proved) was the 8-ball military patch used at Nasa Crows Landing Air Force Base not far from Highway 132, bearing in mind that John's described the man as looking like a serviceman. Click my name. The "woeman" angle you describe does seem plausible based on the obvious simplicity of spelling "woman". I also noticed that Zodiac used the word evening for the ride he gave Kathleen Johns. Evening is the period of time between the end of the day and the beginning of night, when the sun is close to the horizon. It's often associated with the end of the workday and sunset. Sunset in Modesto on March 22nd 1970 was 6:18pm, five hours before his claimed abduction. Probably a slip of the tongue but I thought I'd point it out.

Richard
12/22/2024 04:40:26 am

I am 90% convinced this is not a Zodiac crime Rubi. Where do your percentages lie. Or for that matter, anybody else reading this.

Rubislaw32 link
12/22/2024 04:56:56 am

I am close to 100% confident, Richard, that the Zodiac is neither responsible for Kathleen nor Robert.

I believe the Zodiac saw through LE's ruse over Kathleen - and didn't particularly bother him. With Robert, I think it touched a nerve - because it might falsely perpetuate the notion that Zodiac was gay.

The Zodiac probably had an alibi for both Kathleen in March 1970, and Robert in April 1970 - anyway.

I believe also, that the three ''eight-balls'' the Zodiac employed in Z13 - also served another purpose: They represent the alphabetic letter ''A''. He was, effectively, putting AAA behind the ''eight-balls''.

AAA = American Automobile Association. The Zodiac was not happy with them, using their powers of citation, to issue him with a traffic violation, such as a speeding ticket or similar.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/26/2024 09:57:06 am

I'm convinced pretty thoroughly this was a Zodiac crime. I love your breakdown of how this might connect to Stine. I never knew any of that.

But I love the motivation and the connections you've made, and would believe 100% that is what was at play.

I wouldn't be surprised if Johns was initially meant to be either murdered at that ARCO, or somehow have Joe connected to her murder or disappearance or some combination of the two.

This type of Narcissism would be exactly how I would expect a sociopath to behave. So I think you found a good portion of the motivation.

So while putting a good scare into Joe would have been part of the motivation, Johns being pregnant would have fulfilled the need for his other task, and the kind of victom he was looking for.

Extreamly grisly, but I believe Johns was targeted because she was with child. I have a story to tell about it, not sure if I will be able to do it successfully nor convincingly, but I have a story to tell as to why she was a high value target.

It was because of the "types" of things that a person who would call themselves a "Zodiac" might have been involved with. None of it good.

As far as the AAA and the eight balls, I'm not sure that is how ciphers and homophones work. I'm familiar with certain ciphers, not the cryptograms per se, but a different class and type of cipher -- which is where I get my name. But the classic cryptograms that many consider his only ciphers, there is a more rigorous understanding of how one would go about processing that.

You can refer to the work of Dave Oranchak for more clarity on that. His channel goes into how the ciphers were broken, but he also does a fantastic job of trying to show the traps that many fall into that you have to be aware of when talking about how to approach the ciphers to be taken seriously.

I would suggest a quick watch of those. They are often amusing.

Tutu puhbah
1/2/2025 03:19:20 pm

If you can tell me how to get my Dads DNA reviewed, that currently is on Ancestry, which I paid for and insisted be done, without me sounding like some zodiac fan, please advise. I’ve known nothing about the Zodiac until recently as I look into his past in San Fran, Modesto, Bay Area, and WA.

JIbberjabber
12/22/2024 05:53:13 am

Great article, I dont know what to make of this being a Zodiac attack.
The odds against it are so high but this case is so bizarre I keep a very open mind.

A couple of details stand out to me if true, he had buffed shoes, clean shaven and had a look of a well presented serviceman? about him. There were "papers" over the car, by this I take it she meant pieces of paper ie work or reports or something and not just old newspapers. The car had a sporty gear console or something like that.

I do get the feeling whoever this abductor was, he was not unemployed - he seems to have had some work related or business purpose about him. the buffed shoes ie so well polished they shine must mean something.

why buff your shoes to such a high standard unless you want someone to notice them or you have been trained to do so. Buffed shoes in the military seem to be associated with formal occasions / dress unifiform etc and we have (or at one time had) dress shoe prints found in Riverside.

Obviously America had a lot of service personnel current & former around the time of Zodiac, but why would someone be wearing a more formal type shoe in the commission of a crime? I agree with you, I think whoever this person was he had some other reason to be in the area either going to or leaving from whatever he had been doing, and he just got the urge to do a spot of hunting.

you make a great point about Johns not knowing there would be a picture of the Zodiac at the police station. For that reason I tend to think the abduction itself was genuine, but she may have just been in a state of shock etc and the abductor was close enough in looks to Zodiac that she decided the wanted poster matched the abductor rather than necessarily he other way round.

But I keep my mind open on this one.

And for what it is worth the Pines card was mailed 22nd March 1971 which was the 1 year anniversary of this event.

Rich link
12/22/2024 06:25:32 am

Thanks for these solid points Jibber, but what did you make of the letter sent to the Sacramento Bee newspaper signed "AROUSED". I took a look at the October 23rd 1969 newspaper from the San Francisco Chronicle featured above and got "arouse" from the print. Is it probably stretching things to believe the Zodiac mailed this "to the editor" of the Bee to play games as some people have suggested? Do you make anything of it? Click my name to view.

Rubislaw32 link
12/22/2024 06:53:09 am

Excellent spot, Richard, and for what it's worth, I would never put that past the Zodiac being the letter-writer. Who on earth would sign a letter with ''Aroused'' - if not that which constitutes the sickness and toxic mentality of the Zodiac ?

His murders seemed to spur him on and inspire him, with his hoaxing & extortion. He was, first and foremost, a prolific small-time extortionist.

Richard
12/22/2024 07:03:12 am

I certainly don't claim to be the person who first found this Sac Bee letter or the connection to Rouse St, but I do know Zodiac played games using the newspapers. And you are exactly right - after a very considerate and thoughtful letter, why would you sign it "aroused". If this person attended Hughson High School with Paul Stine, just give your first name, or write "former classmate". The signature seems out of place. We may be over-reading the signature, but it is an odd choice of word in capital letters.

JIbberjabber
12/22/2024 10:55:09 am

Wow - I must have missed that one. That letter just seems very strange. It is either good intentioned but written by a person who is entirely clumsy in their choice of words and wandering in their train of thought, or it is a not entirely subtle taunt to Paul Stine possibly by the person who killed his brother.

absolutely 50/50 chance but there is so much to interpret as Zodiac like

Some random thoughts:

I think there is some genuine respect shown here for Joe Stine's challenge to Zodiac (Zodiac did credit the police for linking him to the Riverside crime so he has form for showing respect) is it possible Z did have some bizarre code of conduct that allowed him to respect a certain person. On that note I have always wondered why Zodiac did not actually kill Paul Avery.

Z was obviously scared out of San Francisco after almost being caught there, and by that time the only thing that could likely have escalated the media coverage even more (other than actually blowing up a school bus) would be to kill a chronicle writer. Paul Avery never backed down against Zodiac and he gave newspaper & TV interviews likely as Joe Stine did, is it possible Zodiac respected this from both men?

The article goes on a strange tangent to comment on the Vietnam war and presumably how young people would rather love and get high rather than kill.

definitely sensing someone who is pro-Vietnam and lamenting young men in the 1960s that didnt want to go off and fight. Could this be a serving or former serviceman who had fought for his country and had some resentment to the young generation at the time who did not want to go to war

There is no mention of Stine's immediate family in SF in the letter, just his brother and mother.I even feel mentioning the mother is a taunt at her as I would think no one would experience the loss of someone more than a mother.

Why send $1, again I feel this is demeaning and as if to say Paul Stine's life was only worth a dollar.

why mention buying Joe Stine a car, just because he rode to work on a bicycle does not mean he did not have a car or could not afford one. I feel it is a veiled threat in a way to single out on a specific piece of info that went into Stine's interview article.
and mentioning the cold wet days ahead could be taunting too and rubbing it in that Joe will never again see the brother he says in the full article he was close to.

I get the feeling that when the writer of the letter states there is a good chance Zodiac would take him up on his offer, it could be interpreted as a threat - if the writer of the letter was Zodiac.

adding the full address of the service station at the bottom of the letter again just seems a bit odd and could be a veiled threat from Zodiac (if the writer) that he knows where Joe Stine works so could strike at any time.

The mention of Hughson High School is interesting and for me would be the way to confirm this as Zodiac or not. I do not believe for a second that Zodiac attended the same school as Paul Stine, so there would have to be a way in 1969 for a cruel taunting Zodiac to find out which school he went to and add this to the note.

If it was not possible to find out where Paul Stine went to school I would be forced to concede the letter was genuine, but there is so much "off" about the letter I feel this could be a Zodiac correspondence.

Paul Avery (and possibly Kathleen Johns) got a halloween card from Zodiac
Melvin Belli (and possibly Mary Pilker) got a Christmas card from the Zodiac
The family of Dean Ferrin possibly got silent phone calls from the Zodiac.
Detective Lynch got a key to the Z408 possibly from Zodiac.
Zodiac wrote letters to the editor of at least 3 different newspapers (4 if he was the killer of Cheri Jo Bates) and with one newspaper over an extended period of time.

It would not be out of character for Zodiac to behave in this way.

The signature of AROUSED is very double-entendre and could be taken as Zodiac aroused at the chance to hunt Joe Stine, I just think that is the most likely way to explain that signature.

I have been considering for a while now that maybe Zodiac had no connections to his victims before he came into contact with them, but maybe somehow researched them and their families after he had came into contact with them. Did he really feel once he killed someone he owened them or their souls (became his slaves) which is why in some cases he has made contact with their surviving family members?

This could be another Zodiac "signature" aspect. correspondance with victim family members, but it would be obviously harder to recognise if the letter did not start with "this is the Zodiac speaking".

How many murder victims in 1960s/1970s also got taunting letters and phonecalls but which were NOT signed Zodiac?

ive said it before and I will say it again, I feel there is a chance the Zodiac killer was also the Black Dahlia avenger (because of the taunting letter media campaign). The Black Dahlia Elizabeth

JIbberjabber
12/22/2024 11:01:22 am

I ran out of space on my other article!!!

all i was going to say is Elizabeth Short was killed in Los Angeles but her body was buried in Oakland. She lived in Vallejo with her dad who worked at Mare Island.

I just think it is interesting the first 2 canonical Zodiac crimes occured in Vallejo and Zodiac cut the majority of his newspaper text from the Oakland newspaper.

Weird

Rich
12/22/2024 01:04:38 pm

Great analysis Jibber, I pretty much agree with everything you stated. I find it difficult to add anymore because you've covered all bases. In regards to Hughson High School, I find it interesting that the Sacramento Bee writer seemed knowledgeable that Paul Stine went to school there. If the Sac Bee writer (or Zodiac) had family in or near Hughson, then he could easily have been told by word of mouth this knowledge. The murder of Paul Stine was big news, so if Zodiac had friends or relations (or people he traded with) in Hughson, he could easily have picked up this local knowledge on one of his visits to this area. Maybe this is why he was in the area of Hughson/Modesto on or shortly before March 22nd 1970, heading back to the Bay Area after a visit. Seizing his opportunity when he saw Kathleen Johns. Then in 1990 he sends the Eureka card using a photocopy of Klingel's keys, because he had at some point crossed paths with Chester, who lived at 6413 E Keyes Road in Hughson before eventually settling in Eureka. Hughson High School and 6413 East Keyes Road are 3 miles apart by crow.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/24/2024 10:15:35 am

Leave it to Jibber, to have the connection, but alas, unless you have the right suspect, to possibly see the 3 person to connect the dots to, you won't be able to see why I believe Johns was in fact a victim.

I was going to pose this in another forum or on my own channel. But perhaps because it presents itself here, perhaps it was destined.

What victimologically, do Liz Short, and Kathleen Johns, what do they possibly have in common?

It would be hard to connect it with just those two, but as I mentioned, if you have a suspect similar to mine, there is another victim that is very similar to Johns. And more to the point, there's yet another victim similar to that one.

Put all together, something odd and disturbing presents itself. 1, 2, 3, 4 crimes, all have a commonality to them. A commonality of the female body, and control exerted over their femininity, by way of manipulation and defilement of their womanhood.

4 points are ezier to connect than just 2, but alas, it is, what it is.

Richard
12/24/2024 03:28:48 pm

Jibberjabber is the Black Dahlia man. There are some letters in the case that look very interesting. Unfortunately, I'm not up to speed on that case.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/25/2024 11:22:41 am

Those of us, who call ourselves Edologists, are familiar with this type of wordplay, such as arousED.

That could be viewED as a way he signs many of his letters. He's not signing as the Zodiac, which itself is a totem or Sigil, that is both a key and a homophone for his name ED.

You will notice slight variations on many of the words that end in ED, like:
crack ED
twich ED
concern ED citizen.

As mentionED, some of us who believe the Zodiac was Ed Edwards, have picked up on this, that we believe is a clew. It repeats over many of the Zodiac letters, as well as other letters that are connected to murder cases. Some of which have never seen the light of day in the media, and yet are connected to a large tapestry of murders that no one understands are connected to the Zodiac and continue a theme, that most who only follow the "canonical" zodiac murders will not be able to discern and understand.

In terms of data, what I just described, gives you a larger chance of spotting a pattern. Which is what happened for me. It is also why I say, at first I did not understand the Johns case. But I'm 100% sure now, she was a victom of the Zodiac, and she was targeted because she was pregnant.

A disturbing pattern emerges as I mentioned. Starting with BD Liz short, continuing with those murders that are around her time "The werewolf murders", but continues with Johns, which ends what most understand as the "Zodiac" crimes.

But this pattern, an almost "combination" of Liz short, and Kathleen johns, occurs much later, in a series of murders. I'll repeat that, because it might boggle the mind:

Combine the murders of BD, with what happened to Kathleen Johns, and you have a very famous murder, where the perpetrator did both things at once, and no one is able to put it together. It's because he's been doing it for decades.

That same "combo" murder, is actually done at least twice. One of the murders that is "like" BD and Johns, gets worldwide fame, meanwhile-- around a 6 month window either prior or after I forget -- the exact same thing occurs but does not get the press.

Obviously the zodiac, sending in a letter to the editor that is not a cryptogram or specific communique as that persona, will not use the Zodiac sigil, to expressly announce himself.

What he would do though, is send you another puzzle cipher, that you would not know is a puzzle cipher. Which is a "signature". A signing of his name. Hidden in a word puzzle.

arousED.

Richard link
12/22/2024 07:32:12 am

Kathleen Johns must have stopped at some point during her journey, possibly for the toilet, refreshments and gasoline. If Zodiac (or anybody) had targeted her, this individual could easily have become aware of her at one of these stops. Diamond Gas & Mart in Modesto (1200 6th St), is right alongside Highway 99, 1.4 miles from 706 Sutter Avenue where Joe Stine worked, and 263 feet by crow from Highway 99. I don't know if it was there in 1970, possibly under a different name, but a fellow traveller could easily have picked up her scent at such a stop.

Richard
12/22/2024 07:50:51 am

Joe Stine rode a bicycle to and from work each day from his mother's house. I would like to know that address to see if it was near 1200 6th St in Modesto.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/25/2024 01:58:35 pm

This is exactly right. He could have just happened to be there. He could have been a truck driver just at a rest stop. Once he saw a woman who may have appeared pregnant. Maybe he was inside and just saw her briefly outside, but not knowing that the other child was inside the car, she would have been acquired as a target.

JIbberjabber
12/24/2024 10:33:43 am

Richard made a good point above about how kathleen Johns may have stopped somewhere enroute, because a question I have is how did her would-be abducter know she was a lone female in the car???

If it is dark and Zodiac or whoever tried his ruse on a random car, there would likely be at least a 50/50 chance at random he would stop a male as much as a female, infact maybe there would be less lone females driving around so late at night?

If he stopped some guy and feigned a loose wheel, what if the guy got out to have a look and found there was no loose wheel nut, does the abductor have to kill him there and then? I dont think a guy would fall for such a story or at least not without confirming the loose wheel nut himself.

In Johns' story Zodiac comes up to the window to tell her what the issue is, is this the chance to confirm she is a lone female in a car before he proceeds or is this literally the first time he lays eyes on her?

Could this have still went down the way it did but with a male victim? Somehow I dont think so. I think this person knew she was a lone woman travelling in a car at night (albeit pregnant but with young child) but how did he know this?

I have to agree with Richard, it would have been an important piece of information to know where and when she stopped on her journey because Zodiac could have been laying in wait to select a victim at some stop off.

Is this why he pulled in to BRS momentarily only to leave and return?
Is this why the second car was observed at LHR but with nothing going on?
Maybe the strange guy at Lake Berryessa too

There could be an initial phase of reconnaissance to confirm he has selected the right victim type before proceeding.

Or would he have just proceeded anyway?

Richard
12/24/2024 03:19:08 pm

Bearing in mind the challenge given by Joe Stine and Johns believing she may have been trailed from Modesto, don't you think police should have asked this important question of what stops she took? If Stine's mother lived close to the above gas station (or another), it would be at least useful to know, even if not a compelling link. Did the Richfield Station that Joe worked at sell gas? Was it signposted? Coming across a female at a gas station seems like a more logical point of contact rather than attempting to spot a lone woman on a low traffic highway at 11;15pm. Once Johns stated she thought she was trailed from Modesto, if she did say she stopped there, I would have expected investigators to interview the workers at the location and question them on seeing a 30-year-old servicemen-type, driving a tan, late model 2-door vehicle. They couldn't have been that busy at around 11pm. They may have done so, but we haven't heard anything about this.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/26/2024 09:17:41 am

As usual Jibber, all of this is sound logical thinking. And this would be exactly how I think he did this.

I'm not sure if it was already said, but I believe he would have simply been traversing this highway. Possibly as a trucker, which Edwards was at the time. So truckers would fit in as very common folk, but would be familiar with the routes back and forth, deciding if they wanted to be known as regulars or not. Even then, perhaps leaving the wrong name. For ex. "Wayne" instead of "Edward".

The manner of reconnaissance also makes sense, and one would definitely have to figure out and case the victom first, identifying and confirming if they are a high probability target.

But as I mentioned before, there is something specific about Johns, that I believed is why she was targeted as a victom.

Her victimology is so different, except for Stine, which was characterized as "breaking the pattern", which I don't believe BTW. But I have come to the belief that Johns not only was a Zodiac victom, but she was because she was pregnant.

inowhodidit
12/25/2024 07:37:52 pm

I have always wondered if Woeman was a proxie for the male version, Joeman, aka Joe Stine. The W in "Woeman" seems every-so-slightly capitalized while the others in the letter aren't. Another Zodiac game? If the crime was a proxie for Joe Stine, then maybe.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/26/2024 08:17:49 am

It's been shown, both on reddit and on Youtube. The word Woeman is simply a word that is used in arcane books.

A quick google search will find you that video or you can find it on /Reddit.

It turns out, that many of the words that most people assumed were misspellings were not. I would offer that is a stronger clew than a connection to a person or to capitalization as you might suggest.

Someone went through the meticulous work of identifying multiple words he used and pointing out where they've been used in 15th to 17th century texts.

My favorite is actually the word "clew". That word is not even very old. It is on the face of a newspaper -- considered to be the bastions of language. It's on the front paper in Ohio on a story describing "the cleveland torso murderer" aka the mad butcher of kingsbury run.

Here's a brief list from memory of some of the words that were identified as correct spellings that the person identified on /Reddit and where they provided pictures with the original text:
1. howers
2. woeman
3. paradice
4. christmass
5. victom
6. saterical
7 extreamly
8. drownding
9. comidy
10. wateing

The point here is, and I'm not sure how it's been misunderstood for so long. These are not misspellings. And there has been this ongoing dialogue or statement by some people, that the zodiac was not smart, or the ciphers don't mean anything. Etc. Which I disagree with.

This evidence contradicts that.

This person, is so very familiar with these terms, which are prevalent in 15th to 17th century arcane literature, that he is able to sprinkle these words into his casual writing, and it has the effect of making the public, who is not well read, to lead them into thinking he was making spelling errors and was not smart.

This evidence contradicts that misconception in my opinion. He's demonstrating an almost doctorate level understanding of this type of literature. It's a Zodiac level trolling.

It's accomplishing two things which could be why he does this. It's misdirection. It also serves to sort out, who is seriously attempting to understand what he was doing.

The texts that contain the correct spellings also, confirmed separate research that I was doing. Research about his beliefs, as confirmed by books I believed he was reading and studying from.

The "misspellings" were to clew you in , as to what he was reading, how he was thinking and what the Zodiac was. Meaning why he called himself that.

It wasn't because of a watch.

Inowhodidit
12/26/2024 10:41:32 am

I am not sure how many of these words were common in whatever outdated dialect your theory uses. But here is a (sort of) complete list of words he didn’t spell correctly. I removed the ones you referenced from memory. At a glance, it appears they are simply the obvious ways a person who doesn’t have a grasp of spelling would write them based on their phonetic value. In short, if you are prone to misspell, this is how you might do it. And there seems to be some natural relationship between whatever original spelling of the words you reference and phonetics. I just can’t agree with Zodiac having any quality about him being doctorate. I think this is just how someone with a terrible grasp English might spell words. If it turns out the all or close to all of these words are part of a singular language, you might be on to something.

Cid
blond
brownett
minuts
choaked
twiched
pattrened/paterned idenity cyipher
cruse
coupples
untill
origionaly
tireing
backwords
trashing
squealling
raceing
shabbly
epasode
silowets
pencel
celling
darck
motorcicles
frunt
though (thought)
aufully
Des (abbreviation for December)
comitt
entirle
descise (disguise)
unnoticible
efective
efect
wipeing
bussy
useing
cruzeing
motorcicles
supicisous
waveing
dissapeared
doesn't
noze
rubed
positivily
ventalate
allready
aprox (abbreviation for approximately)
machiene
re root (reroute)
"to many firetrucks",
extreamly
dificult
loose (lose)
nineth
posibly
triger
cerous
doo (do)
teritory
butons
considerbly
bluber
promiced
anilating
untill
intersting
coupple
twich
pleass
victoms
nucenses
whrite
implatt
shakeing
thoes
evere
Im
him self
truley
sucides

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/26/2024 11:50:40 am

Well, for one, it's not my theory.

It's someone else's theory. And as mentioned it's a google search away. My theory is something else, that correlates with the findings of this other researcher. In science, we call this a double blind study. It's a scientific method of triangulation.

When 2 people, come at a problem from 2 different angles, to the same conclusion or the 3rd angle, that's considered sound scientific theory. As they are unbiased, and must have been following sound logic to arrive at that 3rd point. We learned this in school at a young age.

Starting out, with an end result in mind, and then removing all other counter veiling evidence, could be considered having a bias which will not yield true results, as they would be skewed. For ex, creating a condition that says, unless it's a language of some sort that fits my preconceived notion, could be understood as having a bias, or an end result, that one then looks to back fill in, and support with their own thought process. Or worse, remove all other evidence they view as contradictory to a bias one may not be aware that they have.

This kind of thinking is fraught with problems, as it doesn't track with scientific rigor and logic.

As mentioned before, someone did the meticulous research and found multiple pieces of evidence that connect or correlate. To disregard such a find -- I would say is not only unreasonable, but approaches what I mentioned before, a kind of clouded thinking.

My suggestion would be to try to understand why there is a connection at all, to so many words, containing the characteristics that they do, instead of creating conditions that may not fit a preconceived narrative. I've mentioned I've had to do that. It's not EZ. But if you're like me, you may find it helps to clarify actual results when you do find them.

My theory is not of a language per se, as you describe it. There is a language, but it's not pertinent to this discussion. My theory that is pertinent to this discussion involved the books and types of reading that the Zodiac was pulling from.

The separate researcher, simply confirmed that multiple instances of these words -- in data science terms, we might call these multiple signals as opposed to noise. This researcher confirmed a book, from a certain author, that was from the 15th century.

I knew the research was correct, because I had already found the book. And the author. Who was from the 15th century, and is relevant to what the Zodiac was, and perhaps was trying to replicate.

It is something new to the case, and is statistically significant. In my view. Your mileage may vary.

inowhodidit
12/25/2024 07:52:48 pm

I have to also add that my suspect's name is Joe. Joseph James DeAngelo, who had family in Exeter, where the Stine family was from and he spent time there. JJD also spent years taunting his victims before and after the crimes. Relentlessly. And if I am correct that he was on Proboards using various alias, he was still taunting the public and police, up until is 2018 murder. The tone of his posts and comments were spot on, not to mention the constant connections this poster drew between Z and JJD. JJD's mother's name was Kathleen. I have found numerous name parallels between JJD victims and possible Z victims. Domingos/Dominga. Cheri/Cheri. Bob Coffman. Robert Offerman. All the Smiths. I could go on and on. Not to mention Zodiac letters mailed on JJD/s bday, his mother's bday and his stepfather's bday. This is just the tip of the iceburg.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/26/2024 08:48:27 am

It's fine to have a suspect. I'm just very weary of those who don't know or don't understand why law enforcement is not more forthcoming with information, because some are not serious and impede or cloud the discussion to actually find the killer.


I would hope that before anyone starts blaming someone inappropriately or accusing them or their family of a crime, that it's understood, that you maybe want to first do no harm, as in , confusing or cloud the real search for the killer.

As such I try to connect things one to the other, to figure out if they make sense. I've also come across situations where assumptions and connections I've made were wrong, which is not something I see many people do in the community.

So I would just wonder about some basic thinking before anyone starts accusing someone of these heinous crimes .

For ex:
1. Is your suspect a criminal?
2. Is your suspect a murderer?
3. Is your suspect a murderer of couples?
4. Is your suspect a murderer of couples on lovers lanes?

Those might be good places to start, to be taken seriously, and possibly to not contribute to clouding the investigation thereby helping the criminal to get away. Which seems like an odd thing to have to say to people. But here we are.

Let's try not to help the criminal get away by redirecting resources from being on the right trail.

Inowhodidit
12/26/2024 11:35:21 am

Hmmm. Thanks for the reminder about basic thinking. My suspect currently sits in federal prison for murdering couples. I’m surprised you haven’t heard of him. He’s arguable the most prolific criminal in the history of the country with crimes closely resembling zodiac crimes.

EdEdwardsCiphers link
12/26/2024 11:58:19 am

I was not sure, about your suspect, as I didn't want to be rude. Which it sounds like you may have taken umbrage at. So forgive me, as I have no interest in a tete a tete with verbal jabs.

I'm here because there are other fora for that sort of thing. And I don't much have the energy for that.

Good luck to you on your search for what sounds like proving that the GSK is the Zodiac. I just hope you have the extraordinary evidence for such a claim.

Best to you.


Comments are closed.
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture

    All
    13 Hole Postcard
    148 Character Cipher
    1978 Letter
    1986 Letter
    1987 Letter
    2001 Happy New Year Card
    Albany Letter
    Allan/Peyton Murders
    Arthur Leigh Allen
    Atlanta Letter
    Betsy Aardsma
    Blue Rock Springs Attack
    Bus Bomb Letter
    Button Letter
    Call To Chat Show
    Carol Beth Hilburn
    Channel 9 Letter
    Cheri Jo Bates
    Cipher Theories
    Citizen Card
    Concerned Citizen Card
    Confession Letter
    Daniel Williams Poisoning
    Debut Of Zodiac Letter
    Deep Real Estate Ad
    DMV Letter
    Domingos/Edwards Murders
    Donald Lee Bujok
    Donna Lass
    Dragon Card
    Earl Van Best Jr
    Eureka Card
    Exorcist Letter
    Fairfield Letter
    Fingerprint Evidence
    Forecast For Cancer
    Forecast For Leo
    Gareth Penn
    General News Articles
    Gilbert And Sullivan
    Good Citizen Letter
    Halloween Card
    Hood/Garcia Murders
    Internet Articles
    Joan Webster
    Johnny & Joyce Swindle
    Judith Hakari
    Kevin Robert Brooks
    Lake Berryessa Attack
    Lake Herman Road Murders
    Lake Tahoe Disappearance
    Larry Kane
    Leona Roberts Murder
    Los Angeles Letter
    Melvin Belli Letter
    Mike Morford (Morf13)
    Modesto Attack
    Molina/Rodriguez Murders
    Monticello Card
    My Name Is Letter
    Nancy Bennallack
    New Canaan Letters
    Novato Letter
    Oakland A's Letter
    Pines Card
    Possible Zodiac Attacks
    Possible Zodiac Letters
    Presidio Heights Murder
    Radians
    Red Phantom Letter
    Richard Gaikowski
    Riverside Desktop Poem
    Robert Salem Murder
    Ross Sullivan
    Saechao/Saelee Murders
    San Jose Code Letter
    Santa Claus Card
    Scorpion Ciphers
    Scotch Tape Letter
    Sla Letter
    Tamalpais Valley Attack
    Ted Kaczynski
    Telegraph Avenue Incident
    The 340 Cipher
    The 408 Cipher
    The Celebrity Cypher
    The Little List
    The Mikado
    Thomas Horan
    You Are Next Letter
    Zodiac Letters Poll
    Zodiac Postage
    Zodiac Theories

    Picture

    RSS Feed

    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians & # inches along the radians. The code solution identified was Estimate: Four Radians and Five Inches To read more, click the image.
    Picture
    Picture
    The Zodiac Atlas: The Zodiac Killer Enigma by Randall Scott Clemons. Click image for details.
    Picture
    The Zodiac Killer Map: Part of the Zodiac Killer Enigma by Randall Scott Clemons. Click image for color version
    For black and white issue..
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture
    Picture

    Archives

    May 2025
    April 2025
    March 2025
    February 2025
    January 2025
    December 2024
    November 2024
    October 2024
    September 2024
    August 2024
    July 2024
    June 2024
    May 2024
    April 2024
    March 2024
    February 2024
    January 2024
    December 2023
    November 2023
    September 2023
    August 2023
    July 2023
    June 2023
    May 2023
    April 2023
    March 2023
    February 2023
    January 2023
    December 2022
    November 2022
    October 2022
    September 2022
    August 2022
    July 2022
    June 2022
    May 2022
    April 2022
    March 2022
    January 2022
    December 2021
    November 2021
    October 2021
    September 2021
    August 2021
    July 2021
    June 2021
    May 2021
    April 2021
    March 2021
    February 2021
    January 2021
    December 2020
    November 2020
    October 2020
    September 2020
    August 2020
    July 2020
    June 2020
    May 2020
    April 2020
    March 2020
    February 2020
    January 2020
    December 2019
    November 2019
    October 2019
    September 2019
    August 2019
    July 2019
    June 2019
    May 2019
    April 2019
    March 2019
    February 2019
    January 2019
    December 2018
    November 2018
    October 2018
    September 2018
    August 2018
    July 2018
    June 2018
    May 2018
    April 2018
    March 2018
    February 2018
    January 2018
    December 2017
    November 2017
    October 2017
    September 2017
    August 2017
    July 2017
    June 2017
    May 2017
    April 2017
    March 2017
    February 2017
    January 2017
    December 2016
    November 2016
    October 2016
    September 2016
    August 2016
    July 2016
    June 2016
    May 2016
    April 2016
    March 2016
    February 2016
    January 2016
    December 2015
    November 2015
    August 2015
    July 2015
    June 2015
    May 2015
    April 2015
    March 2015
    February 2015
    January 2015
    December 2014
    November 2014
    October 2014
    September 2014
    August 2014
    July 2014
    June 2014
    May 2014
    April 2014
    March 2014
    February 2014
    January 2014
    December 2013
    November 2013
    October 2013
    September 2013
    August 2013
    July 2013
    June 2013
    May 2013
    April 2013
    February 2013
    January 2013
    December 2012
    November 2012
    October 2012
    September 2012
    July 2012
    January 2012

Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Picture
Photos from Marcin Wichary, zAppledot, vyusseem, Alex Barth, Alan Cleaver, jocelynsart, Richard Perry, taberandrew, eschipul, MrJamesAckerley