ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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DID THE MURDERER OF CHERI JO BATES KNOW ROSLYN ATWOOD?

10/8/2024

 
​It is difficult not to see a connection between the Riverside Desktop Poem, Confession letter and Bates' letters when they have the common language of "to die" running through all three, along with the numerous similarities between the poem and the Confession letter, explored here in great detail. A further comprehensive examination of the Confession letter with the then unreleased autopsy report of Cheri Jo Bates, strongly points to an author who knew too much. If the Confession letter author on November 29th 1966 was the murderer of the young college student, then he was very likely responsible for the desktop poem also. 
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Only three days after the discovery of Cheri Jo Bates' body on Halloween morning (October 31st 1966), the Riverside Daily Press newspaper published an article on November 3rd 1966 entitled "Key Clue Goes to C11 Unit", comparing the attempted murder of Roslyn Atwood (19) on April 13th 1965 with the murder of Cheri Jo Bates.(18) on the same campus (see below). It was soon discovered that Rolland Taft (19), responsible for the attack on Atwood, was still in jail when Cheri was murdered and therefore was not responsible for her murder and any of the subsequent communications. I suspect that the murderer of Cheri Jo Bates read this newspaper article and composed a desktop poem mentioning how Roslyn Atwood was "unwilling to die" and had escaped to a nearby house after her stabbing. with "blood spurting, dripping and spilling over her new red dress". The author concluded that she wouldn't "die this time," but Cheri Jo Bates wouldn't be so lucky, stating "just wait till next time", The addition of "rh" likely dating her demise as happening in Riverside on Halloween, because that is when her body was discovered.

The poem was predominately structured around the Roslyn Atwood attack, and was possibly written in blue ballpoint pen a matter of days after the November 3rd 1966 newspaper article. The Confession letter on November 29th 1966 likely continued where the desktop poem finished off, by describing that "next time". The Confession letter would contrast the fact that Roslyn Atwood was "unwilling to die" by remarking how Cheri Jo Bates "went to the slaughter like a lamb" and "went very willingly". The Confession letter also used the phrase "to die" again, stating "I said it was about time. She asked me "about time for what". I said it was about time for her to die". It must also be noted how the word "time" appeared 5 times in these two communications.   

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It is hard to believe that when the desktop poem was discovered in December 1966, a connection wasn't made between the Roslyn Atwood story and the contents of the desktop poem. I have trawled through approximately a dozen newspaper articles about the attempted murder of Roslyn Atwood and found no mention of a "new red dress" in any. All police really had to do was reinterview Roslyn Atwood and discover if she had bought a new red dress shortly before she was stabbed. If she had been able to confirm this fact, it would have placed the desktop poem author and likely murderer of Cheri Jo Bates in her proximity the day she was stabbed. How else could he have reasonably acquired the knowledge she had recently purchased a new red dress and had worn it that night, other than her telling him directly, by somebody who knew Roslyn telling him, or through him overhearing a conversation of her telling someone else?

Roslyn Atwood attended night classes at the Riverside City College and had been attacked traveling home at 9:30pm that night, so it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that the desktop poem author attended the same night class as Roslyn, or had been at the Riverside college for other classes on April 13th 1965. Either way, if police could have confirmed she had bought such a dress and was wearing it when she was stabbed, it would have placed the author of the desktop poem extremely close to Roslyn Atwood at the Riverside City College. A college he would have been writing a desktop poem about 19 months later. For those who believe Zodiac to be responsible for the murder of Cheri Jo Bates, Roslyn Atwood could be the key.

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Johnny
10/8/2024 11:30:37 am

I will do Ricks objective ( and thats good ) style now.

1. The desktop poem has one spelling error in till ( should be til ), right?+
what is this word after someone?

2. It is signed of with an anonymous moniker

3. The text falls from the right to the left more and more

4. It is in lower case letters, but the first letter S is
in uppercase, and notably another S sems that it could be that aswell.

5. This is someone with a real fine handwriting, i could very well
watch for someone artistic like Frank M.

6.It is found at a workplace. The Chester keys also was connected to a workplace. Library and post office. Similar type of workplaces.

7. Extra comment. Robin Hood and Zorro ( desktop and letter ) ?

Richard
10/8/2024 02:23:50 pm

Till can also be used to mean "until," so that's not an error Johnny. Some people think the "rh" is a moniker, however, my interpretation is different based on the preceding line of the verse. It does have that distinctive tilt to the writing - and with a cursory glance doesn't look dissimilar to Zodiac's handwriting, but I've seen lots of handwriting down the years the looks Zodiac-like but isn't, including the writing of some members of the Symbionese Liberation Army.

Johnny
10/8/2024 02:35:57 pm

Ok, understood.

The typed letter has several spelling errors though, and that is a dfference compared to the poem. Also ofcourse poetry compared to prose is a difference answell, because the prose in the typed letter tries to be somewhat poetic, but can't reach the threshold of poetry.

The moniker ( if it is a moniker ) is also missing.

Johnny
10/8/2024 02:44:28 pm

Rick, don't you aswell notice a possible ( just possible ) likness to the car door writing? I mean he seems to write so slowly and carefully?

If he would write impulsively it wouldn't be this smooth, right?

I think it seems almost like it is carved, because if it was carved into the tree, it need to be carfeully done and not on impulse.


It's almost as i can see him infront of me do this so very carefully.

Johnny
10/8/2024 05:31:14 pm

Don't know if anybody agrees on my comparison between the desk and cardoor, but this time i think i might be right in my analysis, that it' s very metodically done in both cases. I want you to say if you disagree aswell, please.

Richard Grinell
10/11/2024 04:58:39 am

There is a similarity Johnny, but handwriting analysis is subjective. If you believe the handwriting is from the same individual it implies that you think Zodiac was responsible for the desktop poem and therefore opens up the possibility he was responsible for Riverside and the Cheri Jo Bates murder, along with the confession letter and Bates' letters?

Johnny
10/8/2024 02:56:14 pm

Slow and measured. The same thing Brian told us about his voice.
That could also be why he never gives us any clues.

William Scott Norton
10/8/2024 03:09:07 pm

This is what Ancestry shows about the current whereabouts of Rosalyn Atwood. Has anyone ever interviewed her after in the years after the attack?

Roslyn I Atwood I
in the U.S., Index to Public Records, 1994-2019

U.S., Index to Public Records, 1994-2019
Add or update information
Report a problem
Detail Source
Name Roslyn I Atwood I
[I Atwood Roslyn I]
[I Roslyn Atwood I]
Birth Date Apr 1945
Residence Date 1982-2020
Address 123 Mayfair St
Residence Oceanside, California, USA
Postal Code 92058
Save

Johnny
10/8/2024 03:38:20 pm

Once again you are constructive! If she moved in -20 though, it could be due to aging and you never know with the human brain.

Richard
10/8/2024 04:00:30 pm

Seems like her, because they did present her age as 19 and 20 and the attack was April 13th 1965, but why is her forename spelt differently above Scott. Do you think the newspapers got it wrong because it sounded like Rosalyn phonetically. I seriously doubt anyone has contacted her since Taft was jailed and released.

Richard
10/8/2024 04:05:10 pm

Her contact details are available but all those sites just block UK traffic.

Richard
10/8/2024 04:08:51 pm

Soon I will have to change her name in the articles

Richard
10/9/2024 02:18:36 am

There is a newspaper report from 1968 that says "Estevan Munoz, 50, a Mexican farm laborer, was killed earlier while walking in traffic lanes along Beach Boulevard near Ellis Avenue. Police said Munoz was struck by an auto driven by Roslyn Irene Atwood, 23, of Bloomington. She was not held.

William Scott Norton
10/9/2024 03:06:04 pm

Can't explain the spelling discrepancy Richard but I'm fairly certain it's the same person. The Bloomington referenced in the auto accident article is located in the Riverside area.

Whether she would remember the red dress is open to question but it's worth a try?

Richard
10/10/2024 01:08:08 am

If I had her email I would contact her. But the one site where I see her partial email at Yahoo, I can't access sadly.

Richard
10/10/2024 01:10:36 am

I have her phone number but cold calling somebody is not an approach I like. With an email the person has a right of no reply.

tommyboy link
10/8/2024 07:21:03 pm

why isn't anyone talking about this

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13933983/zodiac-killer-prostitution-conviction-netflix-murder-documentary.html

Johnny
10/8/2024 07:24:07 pm

Gossip is no good, tommy. Its nothing to discuss, but thanks for the link nonetheless.

Richard
10/8/2024 11:58:21 pm

I suppose because it's nothing new and nobody cares about Voigt.

Rubislaw32 link
10/9/2024 04:27:46 pm

Oh, I see that Voigt has cleared up matters over the claim that he solicited a prostitute in 1994. He was actually researching the Green River Killer at the time, when he was mistakenly arrested for the curb crawling crime.

So, that's OK, then.

Rubislaw32 link
10/9/2024 05:55:13 pm

Ah...it was payback by The Daily Mail, because Voigt wouldn't endorse Jeremy Foy's claim about his grandfather Richard Hoffman.

I haven't seen anyone else one could term ''seasoned'' as a Z-contributor, that endorses Foy's claim either.

But Voigt is easy pickings for the tabloids.

Rubislaw32 link
10/9/2024 06:15:38 pm

Gosh - some priceless photos. I haven't seen those in a long while. I wonder who did ''the dirty'' ?

Rubislaw32 link
10/9/2024 11:46:40 pm

It had occurred to me : This seems to be a ''bitchy thing'' between The Daily Mail and Netflix, as much as anything.

Less than two weeks before Netflix debut their big doc. - and they have some Voigt footage in the can for the doc.

So maybe Voigt is just being used as a ''vehicle'', for an actual problem between The Daily Mail and Netflix ?

Remains to be seen if Netflix decide to edit out their Voigt footage, for their up and coming doc.

Richard
10/10/2024 12:48:38 am

Undoubtedly being used because of the upcoming docuseries, but I have no sympathy for this vile individual. What goes around comes around. He has no reservations about smearing everybody else, so I applaud the Daily Mail for kicking this piece of human trash into the gutter.

Rubislaw32 link
10/10/2024 01:37:05 am

Yes Richard - I suppose Voigt might miss out on full appearance fees, because he ends up not actually appearing.

A dilemma for Netflix, with the editing. Perhaps someone has got it in for Voigt, himself ?

I have my own suspicions - but it would be merely speculative, at this time.

tommyboy link
10/10/2024 04:28:25 pm

If Voigt saying that someone was Zodiac, which he has done for thirty years, had any value, he wouldn't be a bankrupt house husband and a social pariah.

The zodiac killer subreddit is actively suppressing anyone posting the url. For all that "doc_daneeka" complains about Voigt, there must be a backroom deal....

Rubislaw32 link
10/10/2024 10:24:35 pm

It's an interesting observation, tommyboy, regarding Voigt and doc daneeka.

Voigt has built up a large thread at his site, which specializes in hurling brickbats at the Zodiac subreddit. And yet doc daneeka isn't prepared to fight fire with fire - even though it would likely attract more viewers. To date, doc daneeka hasn't featured this Daily Mail article - a minor miracle (!). There would be 100 members' posts in the first hour.

Last time the Zodiac subreddit featured Richard Gaikowski, it was to asses his legitimacy as a viable Zodiac suspect. Voting as followers :

NO/DON'T KNOW: 94%, AGREE: 6%.

Even Voigt's best friend, Ms Betts, was in a cheerful mood that day.

Rubislaw32 link
10/10/2024 11:22:02 pm

''...someone as got it in for Voigt.'' ?

There was a time, following Voigt's defrocking by LE, March 2019, with ''Game-on-gate'', when I wouldn't have missed an opportunity. Voigt bringing disgrace and ridicule to the Z-sleuth internet community.

But, I would suggest that the Daily Mail article is beyond the influence of internet community members. I think it is a warning to Voigt - although it never seems to have dissuaded him from a continued brazen outlook and attitude in the past.

This time from..... Let's keep things cryptic: The Zodiac mentioned this LE institution as the embodiment of an animal, in the Benicia High School Note.

Johnny
10/9/2024 02:55:56 pm

Maybe the two persons seen at the Bates murder site was looking for their missing watch? Jibby says he is reading Graysmith once again, because i don't remember exactly how it was, but i remember Graysmith tells us about two individuals suspiciously being at the crime scene before the police got there i think.

I think the letter writer ( typed letter atleast ) possibly could have gotten some insight into the investigation from an older relative in the police force. This is possible atleast.

Richard
10/10/2024 12:53:37 am

Trouble with the story of the two people searching for the watch with a flashlight is that it cannot be verified. Had two people really been there, they would definitely have found a watch sitting 10 feet from the rear of Cheri. The story on its face makes no sense.

Johnny
10/10/2024 11:24:21 am

Of course you are right on this!

Johnny
10/9/2024 03:07:12 pm

I take it for granted that you didn't like my comment about the measured writing on the desk and the car door.

Sure i could be wong, and the artistic side could come of that he is really an artistic ( somewhat ) type of person. Still, smooth, even lines without any edges on both surfaces ( cardoor and desk ) could very well point to the same individual. A person with more impulsivity will not write so evenly i don't think.

The writing reminds me of either a female ( but it's not on the cardoor atleast ) or a very pedantic type of male. I saw this type of males when i was in school. Myself i more or less destroyed the paper i think.....

Now i also get reminded of that Brian told something about this in the Zodiac documentary besides the measured voice he was talking about.

Richard
10/10/2024 01:04:54 am

The writing on the desktop I suspect was deliberate due to the problem of writing on wood. Whoever wrote this Johnny, if I'm correct, has enough about them to write about past events in the present tense, a form of poetic expression. I could find other examples of this type of expression. So it's perfectly reasonable to believe this person had an artistic leaning and may have been a student at the college who was studying the arts. And not all students had to be young - and that includes night classes.

Johnny
10/10/2024 11:29:06 am

It could be as you say, but it's hard to tell exactly about the surface. Yes, i like to know, because if not, i think im even dumber then usual, thanks Rick.


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    The Zodiac Killer may have given us the answer almost word-for-word when he wrote PS. The Mt. Diablo Code concerns Radians & # inches along the radians. The code solution identified was Estimate: Four Radians and Five Inches To read more, click the image.
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