DID DONNA LASS LIVE CLOSE TO ZODIAC?

7/30/2024

The first three paragraphs are taken from a previous article, with the following information a completely new analysis.

When determining whether the "concerned citizen" card mailed to Sergeant John Lynch on August 10th 1969 was written by a helpful member of the public or the Zodiac Killer, we need look no further than the "good citizen" letter mailed on October 7th 1969. Taking into consideration that the "concerned citizen" card was not in the public domain in 1969, the "good citizen" author would also adopt the word "citizen" in their signature, address the communication to Sergeant John Lynch once again, and refer to the July 31st 1969 cryptogram by mentioning "code letters", just as the "concerned citizen" author was addressing the "code letters" by supplying us with a key to the 408 cryptogram. Also, both communications would use the word "name" twice.

These are compelling reasons to believe that both communications were composed by the same author. The question being; is the wording in the "good citizen" letter that of a helpful citizen or a mischievous individual playing games with the police. The "good citizen" letter read "On occasion, while thinking of the code letters, the pencil wrote: Go to 56 Beach Street. I get the name Jerry, perhaps he knows people or his name is XXXXXXX".

The "good citizen" letter was postmarked October 7th 1969 and mentioned 56 Beach Street, which is the old block numbering from the original planning maps, which comes out as 1654/1656 on the street numbering. The address at 1654/56 Beach St, San Francisco, California is a condominium home that measures 2,141 sq ft, and was built in 1938. Irrespective of the exact numbering, Beach Street is just 240 meters from the Presidio of San Francisco, where eyewitnesses saw a white male, about 40 years of age, weighing 170lbs, sporting a blond crewcut and wearing glasses, running into Julius Kahn playground shortly after the murder of Paul Stine on October 11th 1969. Of all the places in northern California or the Bay Area the author could select, the composer of the "good citizen" letter was not only referring to Zodiac's code letters, but managed to choose the location of Beach Street bordering the Presidio, in which the Zodiac Killer was seen running into just four days later. Possibly coincidence, but noteworthy nonetheless. The "good citizen" author may have been referring to Beach Street in San Francisco just a matter of days before the Zodiac Killer first struck in the big city, before mailing a letter on October 13th 1969, again detailing a destination in the form of a street name - this time "Washington St and Maple St".

I have long believed that the Zodiac Killer lived in Vallejo during his first three crimes, but for the purposes of objectivity we will look towards San Francisco as a possible home location of the Zodiac during and after the Paul Stine murder (and possibly before). When the Zodiac Killer mailed the Bus Bomb letter on November 9th 1969 he gave us an indication to his movements in Presidio Park a month earlier, writing "The dogs never came with in 2 blocks of me + they were to the west + there was only 2 groups of parking about 10 min apart then the motor cicles went by about 150 ft away going from south to north west".

It was apparent that after entering Julius Kahn playground the Zodiac Killer suggested that he had traveled 2 blocks east, which placed him close to Presidio Boulevard that went from south to north west in the south-eastern corner of Presidio Park. From a location 150 feet shy of this road, he was extremely close to the Lyon Street steps and his exit route from the park. If the Zodiac Killer had headed northwards from this location to the Marina District and the area around 1654/1656 Beach Street, he could have opted to walk for 25-30 minutes or enter a vehicle parked on Lyon Street for the 5 minute journey.

If the Zodiac Killer mailed the "good citizen" letter four days before the Paul Stine murder, one could argue that he didn't just pluck the Beach Street address and the name "Jerry" out of thin air. It is possible that he lived close to this location (or within a reasonable distance) and was familiar with somebody who lived or frequented either 1654 or 1656 Beach Street. As an example, he could have lived somewhere within the green circle shown below The reason I've positioned the circle this way will become evident in a moment. .

CLICK ABOVE IMAGE TO ENTER GOOGLE MAPS

Donna Ann Lass (25)

At the time of the Paul Stine murder on October 11th 1969 Donna Lass worked at the Letterman General Hospital in Presidio Park and lived at 4122 Balboa Street, San Francisco. However, according to Robert Graysmith she moved from this address a few months later and relocated to 225 Mallorca Way in the Marina District. If a few months was three or four, Donna Lass could have moved to 225 Mallorca Way in January or February 1970 Either way, it is possible she moved into an area where the Zodiac Killer lived. He was heading in this general direction after killing Paul Stine, and was referring to 56 Beach Street (1654/1656 Beach Street) on October 7th 1969, only four days before the murder. The 1654 Beach Street address was a mere 300 meters from the 225 Mallorca Way home that Donna Lass moved into. She would have spent several months at an address 300 meters from the residence mentioned in the October 7th 1969 letter, before heading off to South Lake Tahoe on June 5th 1970.

In the Pines postcard on March 22nd 1971, the Zodiac Killer pasted "Sought Victim 12", indicating that he had previously targeted Donna Lass between the April 20th 1970 letter (10 victims) and the Button letter on June 26th 1970 (12 victims). Therefore, if the Zodiac Killer had sought her in San Francisco as victim number 12, he would have set his eyes on her between April 20th and June 5th 1970 (when she left for South Lake Tahoe). Because the Dragon card on April 28th 1970 didn't increase the Zodiac Killer's victim total, we can narrow down the time he sought Donna Lass as victim number 12 to between April 28th 1970 and June 5th 1970 (probably sometime in May 1970). During this time she would have been living at 225 Mallorca Way, close to the Beach Street residence. Donna Lass and the Zodiac Killer may have been living near to one another in the Marina District of San Francisco, in an area that had relevance to an address mentioned in one of Zodiac's letters. If we could positively identify the "Jerry" in the October 7th 1969 letter (assuming they exist), it may edge us a little closer to resolving this mystery.

Johnny

7/30/2024 11:38:30 am

If he really lived in Vallejo, someone perhaps knows who he is. He have given so much information out, and who is the best suspects that lived in Vallejo? Did he live as an anonymous tenant? Did he leave just after the crimes?

If someone could find the males between a certain age and get social security forms on all or some of them, we might have him.

That's what your site, Rick gave me with your analysis of the two potential Klingel letters. Nothing certain perhaps, but if someone can get as many SS forms as possible ( i don't know the legality of it? ),
i think they may titulate themselves founder of Zodiac.

Paul Doerr lived in Vallejo but his handwriting isn't legitimate from what i have seen.

Johnny

7/30/2024 11:48:32 am

Also, another angle is that if someone can connect a resident living close to St. Helena in the fifties moving towards Vallejo later on, or for that matter identify who "Friar Puck" is right away, then we might
got him.

Richard

7/30/2024 01:18:51 pm

Obviously Arthur Leigh Allen lived in Vallejo, Mike has his "Mac" suspect, but I believe Doerr lived in Fairfield. Klingel still remains an interesting suspect based on those keys. But I never bother with handwriting, unless a later letter almost perfectly mimics an unreleased letter.

Johnny

7/30/2024 06:50:13 pm

Im just now looking at an obituary, first name Jerry, born in Oklahoma of all places ( i have read your posts about it )! Died living in Vallejo one decade ago, but don' t know where he lived earlier. Could fit with age aswell in some capacity. Has the same surname as the school teacher from Martinez.

Richard

7/31/2024 01:10:55 am

Ideally I would like to find a "Jerry" who either lived at this address or was somehow connected to this address, who maybe had an interest in coding, whose surname was 7 letters. I found a Jerry Roberts who worked at Bletchley Park in Britain during the Enigma Code time, but there is no connection to San Francisco and a dead end. Since the author is referring to "code letters" in accompaniment to this name, I am guessing this Jerry is somebody the author is suggesting can help with the 18 unsolved 408 characters that Sergeant John Lynch mentioned in a newspaper article. But if the author of the two "citizen" letters was Zodiac I suspect he was just playing games, because he created the cipher. Thanks for looking Johnny.

Johnny

7/31/2024 08:29:55 am

I guess you know that Jerry Garcia in Grateful Dead wrote a song suggesting Zodiac killer, and from what i see they did a concert in -69 in Vallejo.

Also Jerry is the name for Zodiac from the -71 Zodiac movie.

...just writing some, take no notice.

Further,

Jerry Brudos was active in -68-69

Tom Hanson the director of the -71 movie:
https://templeofschlock.blogspot.com/2012/12/zodiac-hunter-interview-with-tom-hanson.html

Johnny

7/31/2024 08:44:00 am

Pastor Jerry surname 7 letters, worked on Mare Island, former military,
colourful figure all around ( BMA at the Stine scene? )

Rubislaw32 link

7/31/2024 03:20:13 am

It's a fascinating conundrum, Richard.

''Someone'' (Good Citizen) contacts VPD, 4 days before Stine's murder - which will become SFPD jurisdiction. An ''ESP ruse'' in the Fisherman's Wharf vicinity of San Francisco.

The Zodiac always intended to inform SFPD that he was Stine's murderer - and ASAP ( by Tuesday afternoon following the Saturday evening cabbie slaying).

So - what was the purpose of the Good Citizen/ESP correspondence - and to Vallejo PD ( and not SFPD), given that it was Zodiac, also ?

That's a tricky question to answer. All I have come up with is : Zodiac knew by then, that Bay area cops generally believed the Zodiac was a resident of the Vallejo/Benicia/Fairfield vicinity. And, he wanted to implant (to be uncovered to come) - that he had extricated himself from San Francisco, following Stine's murder, using the Bay bridge, and not the Golden Gate bridge.

When the likelihood has always been that Zodiac used the Golden Gate bridge.

Rubislaw32 link

7/31/2024 03:42:48 am

For what it may or may not be worth: A 100% homophonic solve of Z180 (S5), reveals some concealed messaging, likely related to the murder of Paul Stine : ''Lies ESP'' ; ''Press on''; '' Stop ur chase''; ''Bridgenders''; ''Mare view''.

Richard

7/31/2024 06:05:23 am

The good citizen letter appeared mischievous just like the concerned citizen card Rubislaw. Both referring to the 408 cipher and letters, got me thinking that Jerry was somehow a person of coding skills. I can't find a Jerry at either of these addresses, but he may have visited them. There is obviously no fun in just making up Jerry and XXXXXXX, when it means absolutely nothing, so I suspect it should have had meaning to Sgt John Lynch but not me. But he never worked it out either. It appears he is telling Sgt John Lynch to go to Beach St rather than sending the communication to SFPD as you alluded. It seems Sgt John Lynch is the key. You mentioned the ESP part of the message which I didn't include here, but with Stine's murder four days away it could have been a sort of veiled threat of something to come, after all, the Zodiac likely contacted the Jim Dunbar Show around the same time as the letter. Approximately 2 weeks ago from the October 22nd 1969 show, was around October 7th and 8th. The next time we had Zodiac contacting a station and writing a letter in tandem was December 7th 1969. On that occasion the radio host said he sounded like the October 22nd 1969 hoaxer. So he may have been taking the piss out of the hoaxer, just as he did in his Melvin Belli letter. Could the October 7th 1969 letter be somehow connected to his failed attempt to get on the Jim Dunbar Show before the Stine murder and hence the ESP reference. I wish we had the actual letter. That would help immensely.

Johnny

7/31/2024 10:05:27 am

One thing i don't agree with you, Rick though is the -01 letter. For me this IS Zodiac to an EXTREMELY high degree. If you have proved that the Eureka card and this letter is from the same writer, and let's say this writer is Chet Klingel and he fits age, living arrangements and could confirm that lawyers desription, then we might have our man. I don't dare to challenge you on other things though, but if the -01 letter isn't Zodiac, then i eat my hat.

I have no trouble to say that im wrong whatsoever. I almost prefer to be wrong in this and the least amount of evidence that tells the opposite from what i believe i shall immedeatly take account of and throw out this letter fast as lightning.

The keys i agree, the -01 letter seals it almost for me.

An then it is the Ripper... not today.

Rubislaw32 link

7/31/2024 10:18:37 am

Indeed - likely to remain a bit of a mystery for now. It's as if we are often presented with a piece of the jigsaw missing. I can't see beyond the Zodiac parking a getaway car ''somewhere'' in the vicinity of Presidio Heights, and ''did'' use the Golden Gate bridge to extricate himself from San Francisco city.

Further to this, the Zodiac did trust John Lynch's judgement, to an extent. Before the FBI came on board the case, it seems that CA DOJ trusted John Lynch on ''cryptic matters''.

Richard

8/1/2024 01:20:51 am

What is the -01 letter Johnny?

Richard

8/1/2024 01:23:09 am

If you mean the 2001 card, I believe that is very probably genuine.

Johnny

8/1/2024 07:25:33 am

Yes, that was i hoped you would say, and this letter for me, is the binding of the case ( that is from my viewpoint. The police could have other information ofcourse ).

Now i wont mention his name again, but just to be clear, if someone have these kind of indications pointing towards any other person, please tell us. I don't personally see anything close to resemble this kind of circumstances in this case.

How to solve it may be that someone in the police understands this, and take a look at a certain individual that is now deceased once again. If not, this case will be funny to continue following, but it may not get solved.

Jibberjabber

7/31/2024 03:54:39 pm

Great article! Always worth remembering that for all his "help" the concerned citizen did not present the solution to the Z408 in his letter, he gave enough of the code to break it so he must have known the plaintext so why not include it in the letter? There are also a few things about the Stine letters that are interesting - Zodiac describes the search of the area fairly detailed, if true then he must have hung around the area for a while and not made the quick getaway over the bridge that seems logical. Could he have seen everything he said he saw from ground level, or was he literally up a tree looking down? I always thought it was interesting he changes his units to describe distance - he says the motorcycles went by 150 feet away , but then says the dogs never came within 2 "blocks". why use the term Block if he was in the park is it a meaningful term that way? or was he looking from within the park outwards and using the backdrop of the Presidio Heights streets as his scale? Personally I dont believe he simply hid in a bush or climbed a tree, I dont believe he would allow himself to be so vulnerable, but I do feel he was watching from some vantage point where he felt safe. But at the same time as it was night all he had to do would be close enough to see the headlights of the search party, so he maybe did not need to be too close by afterall. I have also wondered what he meant when he said the fire truck was being used to mask the sound of the prowl cars. The fire truck would not have had its horns sounding at that time of night surely? so the only sound from the fire truck may have been its engine, but if it was stationary how would it hide the sound of cars driving around? The movie shows the fire truck (is there more than 1?) as stationary and seems to be powering a spot light, I never got what he meant by saying the fire truck was masking anything.

Richard

8/1/2024 02:19:02 am

The only thing I can think Jibberjabber is that the Zodiac Killer knew enough about Presidio Park to know where its features were relative to the street. Back in 1969 one group of police/dogs etc entered the park at Julius Kahn playground, so if the Zodiac had travelled 2 blocks east he would be at adjacent to Laurel Street in the park. If the Paul Goode field and/or other streets/roads were in the patk in 1969 he should know their relative position to Laurel Street. Zodiac also had one month to look at a map and describe his journey using this method - and could be the reason he stated 2 blocks. It's unusual that Zodiac used the wording "two groups of parking" which looked like "two groups of barking" when police and dogs would have congregated by Julius Kahn playground. Maybe he estimated the position of the spotlight or sounds of the barking dogs?

Maybe he wrote "you were useing fire trucks to mask the sound of your cruzeing prowl cars" as an offhand comment, to basically say "I had my eyes on you all the time", because his next statement mentioned that motorcycles were going past only 150 feel away. As Bolt pointed out, a great place to park a vehicle beyond the south-eastern area of the park is Lyon Street. It's not impossible he could have walked home if he lived in the area of the Marina District. However, with a vehicle he's literally home in 5 minutes. Another great reason to park here is that it's a level down from the park and not visible from Presidio Boulevard. I've always thought he knew this park enough, to know it would provide cover if anything went wrong. If you are going to kill somebody in a built up area and exit on foot, it's ideal to have a wooded area nearby as contingency.

Zen

8/1/2024 06:26:14 am

This part of the letter made me think 2 things
1. Zodiac was in a building where he could see the situation. He chose that area for that reason and made the SFPD look foolish for not tracking him down.
2. He had a knowledge of police procedures and made it sound to the public like he was right under there nose but had already was long gone.
In conclusion I believe Zodiac was somewhere where he could see and hear the police from a pre planned location

Jibberjabber

8/1/2024 09:53:23 am

Another taunting "guess the name" type question as we see in a couple of authenticated zodiac letters and even in the Nov 1966 confession letter. I would have to think that the good citizen was the concerned citizen and they were both also the zodiac. I think you have mentioned Zener cards previously Richard, I thought it was interesting Zodiac used 3 of the 5 ESP cards (but those symbols appear everywhere)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zener_cards#/media/File:Edyth_Hull_ESP_cards.png

Richard

8/1/2024 10:11:05 am

Yes, the Zener cards was a bit of a reach. The August 10th and October 7th were almost certainly one author, so the timing of the second communication is of great interest, bearing in mind it mentioned Beach St which sits adjacent to the park, along with the possibility Zodiac may have escaped into it, and the subsequent letters mentioning the park.

Rubislaw32 link

8/1/2024 12:47:35 pm

And, same typewriter used for August 10th 1969, as Santa Claus postcard to Joan Webster's family, circa Jan 1982.

Case ''almost solved'' I think, Richard.

Funnily enough, I do have a suspect in mind, for Jerry xxxxxxx - but that would be just a coincidence. After all (?), why would the Zodiac offer his name as a prize ?

Johnny

8/1/2024 01:14:34 pm

Rubi, He most certainly will not, but it in a huge amount of information, maybe someone finds something that could in a roundabout ( is this word correct? ) way lead us to him. You see, even birth names means pretty much. For example my name Johnny someone with intuition may guess somewhat because of my looks. So, if Jerry was just nonsense which i believe it is, why did he write Jerry instead of any other name? In this way you may find out many things, but still you can't trust your intuition to much, because then you will get lost in details and be called rightly an extremist.

Johnny

8/1/2024 01:17:00 pm

Everyone solves according to their particular knowledge and all roads leads to Rome, thats how i see it.

Rubislaw32 link

8/1/2024 01:18:33 pm

I do have a ''third candidate'' for that same typewriter. You may have seen the letter, before ?

From Brigadier General Matrix to Randolph Hearst, c/o The SF Examiner,. September 20th 1975, from Temple TX - to mark the capture of Patty Hearst, Randolph's daughter.

Spookily taking the p*ss out of Brigadier General Jack D Ripper, from Kubrick's film ''Dr Strangelove''.

HEARNAP Pt 37, Page 573.

Rubislaw32 link

8/1/2024 01:22:55 pm

Comments accepted and appreciated, Johnny.

Richard link

8/1/2024 04:00:04 pm

Found this about psycics (ESP). Bi-monthly magazine. Not great but something.

Rubislaw32 link

8/2/2024 09:17:39 am

Might be worth a look, Richard ?

Although I come ''slightly armed'' with bias, since I believe ''345 Hyde Street''played a part, shortly before Paul Stine's murder.

You had mentioned in a previous article, (June 2022) that at the time of Stine's murder, a ''56 Beach Street'' did not exist - so were left in a quandary as to what number Good Citizen/Zodiac could have been referring to.

Since 1892, where Hyde Street intersects Beach Street, is a traditional Cable Car station, known as ''Beach & Hyde''. I wonder what number ''Beach Street'' is given for ''Beach & Hyde'' ?

The Zodiac's ESP letter may have been as simple a ruse, as suggesting that he intended to park his getaway car at ''Beach & Hide''. Just a pun ?

Richard

8/2/2024 11:30:46 am

The Haslett Warehouse at 680 Beach Street is at the intersection of Hyde ans Beach, hence the link above. Strangely Robert Salem was working there, even though its now been shown he wasn't a Zodiac victim. The wording on the October 7th 1969 letter said "I get the name Jerry" not "Ask for Jerry" or "find Jerry". The wording that preceded it of "the writer has a strong feeling of ESP. While having these feelings, the writer writes with a pencil" is strongly suggestive of seance type wording, which is usually followed by something like "I'm making contact now, I am getting the name Elizabeth, Jane" or whatever name the medium is making up. This is the wording used by the October 7th 1969 letter. So it is possible Jerry doesn't exist as Johnny has stated. This is why I thought the Psychic magazine at 680 Beach may have some relevance, although unlikely. But the 7 X's, why conceal this name if it's not real. I wonder if this letter has been detailed wrong from the beginning, especially in punctuation. Regardless, he does mention Beach St, so this is still relevant considering its location next to a park Zodiac may have escaped into four days later. It's extremely difficult attempting to second guess a communication so nonsensical and cryptic. If there is an answer to it, then it will probably smack us squarely between the eyes when the true meaning is found Rubislaw.

Rubislaw32 link

8/2/2024 11:54:33 am

That's something that hadn't occurred me, Richard.

Why redact the name into X's, if it was a made-up name (surname ?).

The investigators obviously believed that someone might need protecting. Still baffling........

Rubislaw32 link

8/2/2024 09:29:47 am

....or, use ''Beach & Hyde'' as his getaway ?

''The Zodiac absconded in a Cable Car....''.

In the Zodiac's imagination, naturally.

Rubislaw32 link

8/2/2024 09:58:56 am

Yes - my ''bias'' thinking is that the Zodiac incorporated a ''blame game'' into his plans to murder a taxi driver. To blame Robert H Coon, Christian/Pagan mystic who incorporated signs of the Zodiac into his teachings.

Robert H Coon lived at 345 Hyde Street - and this is where I believe Stine's cab stopped, with the Zodiac subsequently offering Stine a $10 tip, to extend his journey to Washington Street & Maple.

The ''proof'' might be found on Stine's trip sheet, with penultimate entry: ''345 Hyde Street''.

So - to complete the ''blame game'', Good Citizen/Zodiac might be suggesting he headed for the Beach & Hyde Cable Car terminus - in order to make his way back to 345 Hyde Street.

That, in effect, the Zodiac as the murderer of a taxi driver, was pretending to be Robert H Coon.

Richard

8/2/2024 11:38:42 am

Unfortunately for us, I doubt the taxicab log will ever see the light of day. According to Keith Power it had a destination of Washington & Maple, but seemingly the pick up point is less than clear, if it was ever written. If it was, this is the sort of information that police hold back, because it's relevant to the perpetrator but not the public.

Johnny

8/2/2024 01:01:54 pm

I read a book just now, many Zodiac connections in this one, Mikado for example. It's an australian book. Old english books ofcourse have words like "clew' in them, but also i guess these american detective magazines have these words aswell.

The Zodiac probably hadn't an easy time socially and therefore he took notice of old things, identified with them and felt secure when he did. For example doing farmwork could be a conservative wholesome, stressfree existence, but ofcourse many other things aswell. But a suspect beginning farming could be a suspect, because if he would rent an apartment and have a regular job, maybe he would have time to think and act on urges once again.

He dressed old, called the victim kids and seemed somewhat mature and knowledgable in his writings. How could he write so much without giving out more information to us?

Rubislaw32 link

8/2/2024 10:45:56 pm

Interesting and Z-contributing comments, Johnny.

I always applaud anyone who is prepared to ''dip their toes in the water'', as it were, and offer up some sort of interpretation of what they perceive in front of them - even if one is not persuaded by all that they have to say.

My own interpretation of the Zodiac is that there was to an extent, a dichotomy to his personality developed. I believe he had been a sickly kid in childhood, and had spent long periods off school. often finding himself in extended periods of isolation. For these times he busied himself with indoor hobbies, including a substantial time allocated to reading. So, it was this ''well-read'' side to him, that gave him the confidence to feel more mature than his actual age.

But, on the negative side, he was underdeveloped in socializing, and general interaction with his contemporaries in particular. A bit of a ''Billy no mates'' did Mr Zodiac become.

''Communication in person'' then, he found to be an effort, which was not always rewarded, and sometimes found himself on the receiving end of ''rejection''.

But, it was in the written word, where he found he was able to ''move'' others. Whether it be in a good or bad way - this discovered ability liberated him, and made him feel at times ''special''.

Writing therefore became a compulsion - an arena where he believed he succeeded. ''Small talk'' just wasn't his bag.

Johnny

8/3/2024 12:41:50 pm

May i ask you if you suspect anyone particular, Rubislaw?

Rubislaw32 link

8/3/2024 04:06:38 pm

My ''prime suspect'' is ''motive''. The Zodiac's being persecution of his biological father, for having abandoned his pregnant mother (with foetus Zodiac), during WW II.

In effect, a WWII tragedy, which didn't play out, until 25 years later.

The Zodiac's biological father being then-Fairfield resident, William Joseph Grant.

Rubislaw32 link

8/3/2024 04:58:22 pm

As an interpretation, the persecution of Zodiac's father Grant ''ramped-up'' to attempting to fit Grant up for murder.

The Zodiac only showed remorse once, in referring to himself as ''Nincompoop'' in a message to already-deceased Darlene Ferrin. Did the Zodiac know Darlene personally ? Probably - he also refers to her as ''Dee''.

The Zodiac never did succeed in seeing his ''Secret Pa'' arrested & convicted for Zodiac's murder. And he never really forgave Grant for turning his life upside-down as a teenager. Even in the mid-1990's the Zodiac referred to himself as ''Son o' Fag''.

I believe the Zodiac did kill again ''after Bay area''. Two times, with an outside chance of a further two victims. So - 7 murder victims in total, but as many as 9. Some of the quantities conjectured are just plain ridiculous.

Johnny

8/3/2024 11:03:39 am

I agree, and i have also thought about for example Beryessa, the one seen by the girls. Ofcourse then we have the height disrepancies, but if it really was him he perhaps isn't that cognitively acute in all situations that we may believe he is.

The individual that got seen by the doctor, and his son, T. Voight i think says that it couldn't be him, but just from the outside and the information i can put to use, i would defintely lean towards this man being the Zodiac. Same time, alone man, similar characteristics, somewhat unusual behaviour and from what i know this man never came forward to the police to exclude himself.

This "sickly" you describe could very well be correct, and that means that his environment did much to his future criminal career, because he seems really all to intelligent all around to be this kind of criminal by genes only.

Thta is what i have tried to say to you, Richard, that i can't understand how Zodiac seems to be such an intelligent man and still do this type of crimes. It would be much easier to put this type of crimes on for example a slight autistic type of person with certain gaps in his cognitive profile.

Johnny

8/3/2024 01:03:54 pm

Friar Puck painting,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Fuseli

https://paintingz.com/repro-friar-puck-johann-heinrich-fseli-255465.html

Richard

8/3/2024 01:06:29 pm

Ted Bundy was extremely intelligent. Most criminals are stupid, but some are extremely clever. The Zodiac wasn't particularly clever when he committed his crimes and rode his luck on at least two occasions, but his communications I believe were subtly clever in design. I try not to get too deep on the profiling and psychology of the Zodiac Killer Johnny, because I think it's guesswork at best. I have seen too many FBI profiling examples where they are simply making things up and cannot possibly have been formulated by looking at the crimes. I have heard the Zodiac Killer being described as a "loner", "a sad lonely man", an "incel" who targeted couples and focused on the women more - none of which can be factually determined from examining his crimes. For me, I can say that he had no empathy for his victims and was a psychopath. But you can realistically call anyone who chooses murder to be a psychopath.

Johnny

8/3/2024 01:45:32 pm

Yes, and you do perfect. What i'm talking about is more the things that probably only get confirmed or disawowed if they get an DNA hit and if they release the info. on the individual concerned.

I wonder how many lightcoloured Impalas there was in Vallejo owned by males in he right age. I wouldn't be suprised at all if FBI or some detective in FBI or in the regular policeforce already know who this is.

Johnny

8/3/2024 04:39:40 pm

Interesting, Rubi. I haven't read Laffertys book, but i didn't really understand what his problem was with Grant, therefore my interest in Grant fizzled out.

Johnny

8/3/2024 05:12:56 pm

Rubi. You just told what you "think" is the case, but you know the saying, "that extraordinary events need extraordinary proofs aswell". I like your ideas though!

Rubislaw32 link

8/3/2024 05:59:10 pm

Well, I do openly ''accuse'' CA DOJ of having the DNA proof that Grant was the Zodiac's biological father - and since 2003.

Having said this, I do not blame CA DOJ for having kept that piece of information to themselves. As Zodiac case custodians, it is CA DOJ's right to keep whatever information to themselves, if they believe it gives them a better chance of convicting the Zodiac. The problem with Grant was that he became himself, an ''illegal suspect'' in 1973, by winning a court injunction against all of law enforcement, for police harassment perpetrated on him by Vallejo PD.

Behind the scenes, there has been a falling out between ex-Intelligence processors FBI and CA DOJ, when FBI found out about the father/son dynamic in 2014.

Although I was never to know Lafferty well, I shared a good, but sometime, working relationship with him. Our common interest was William Grant (naturally). Lafferty never did change his position in believing that Grant was actually the Zodiac - though of course I made plain to him my position. I also believe that the Zodiac was far more scared of Lafferty - than has popularly been seen as the other way around. Lafferty was imperfect as a private investigator - but the most tenacious ''bloodhound'' the case has ever witnessed, period (!).

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 01:46:07 am

So Johnny - do you have a specific suspect that goes along with your theories on the Zodiac ?. Is it one of the more ''populist'' Zodiac candidates, like Richard Gaikowski ? ''Gyke'' is claimed to have a ''broad church'' of followers by Zodiac site-owner Tom Voigt. Although a humanitarian in life, Gyke, appears to have lost some traction in popularity in recent years. To an extent, this seems to be because of Gyke's unpopularity with the Reddit sub and their over 70,000 members - who don't seem to share Tom Voigt's enthusiasm for Gyke being a bad guy.

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 02:27:39 am

Indeed - the worst I have ever heard about Gyke was that he was prone to a wicked sense of humour, if becoming a bit bored by a few that liked to hang around him - since he was often seen as a ''cool guy'' to be with because of his underground journalism connections.

Rubisllaw32 link

8/4/2024 02:44:49 am

Come to think about it - it may well be the case that some of these stories about Gyke were actually engendered by him himself. The ''Golden Calf'' (?), and such like.

A means of naturally ridding himself of ''clinging types'' like Blaine Blaine ?

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 05:42:29 am

Yes, I note that in the FBI's Zodiac Killer files, it is documented that (albeit redacted) Blaine Blaine made two major ''submissions'' on Richard Gaikowski's Zodiac culpability to the FBI, just a few years apart.

So - Blaine Blaine not happy the first time ?

It doesn't appear to be a case of Blaine Blaine just concluding that he needed to do his ''civic duty''. More a case of an ex-boyfriend feeling scorned ? But in fairness to Blaine Blaine, that shouldn't discount the validity of his submissions, if he genuinely had become fearful of Gyke.

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 10:22:21 am

I believe it was in 2009 (?) that Tom Voigt agreed to take custody of Blaine Blaine's submissions to the FBI on Gyke, for which the FBI had rejected as pertinent to Zodiac investigations. Voigt may have spotted something in them, that the FBI failed to see (?), And, at the time it seems that Voigt's promotions on his previous pet Zodiac suspect Arthur Leigh A. had run out of gas.

Strangely, and quite recently, the Z-contributor David Oranchak received ''ribbon-tied'' copies of the submissions that Blaine Blaine had made to the FBI. Oranchak thought that the submissions copies were from the now-late Mr Blaine. But, maybe the copies were actually from the FBI themselves ? Oranchak appears at a loss to know what to do with the copies, since he has stated that he holds no faith in Mr Blaine's work.

Johnny

8/4/2024 10:38:57 am

Only Klingel, but then ofcourse i need to trust the Internet and that will reduce the chances and i guess someone that are reading this already know that im barking up the wrong tree.

johnny

8/4/2024 10:50:56 am

Gykes case from the outside seems somewhat bizarre. The things Voight lists as indications of his guilt seems put together with very many small things with very little substance. I like Nancys thoughts about his voice though, and especially because she described the voice before she heard it from Gyke, and that she seems to have suspected other similar voices.

I have listened to the audiofiles with Blaines interviews with Gaikowski. Blaine asks Gaikowski something and Richard says that he has never been very interested in these type of things ( serial criminals that is ). I know how some of these guys ( serial sexual criminals ) talk and Gyke talks like one in that certain instance.

Im always suspicious when a suspect is very neutral in his attitude, don't show feelings and talks just a little to perfect.

Wasn't Gyke pretty interested in violence later on? I also don't like this "Oscar" thing. I can say im suspicious that this whole thing is fabricated.

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 11:26:07 am

Interesting comments from you, Johnny.

Not sure about this ''Oscar thing''. Are you able to elaborate ?

Johnny

8/4/2024 12:28:58 pm

"Oscar" was a poster of one of Voights older boards, and a few posters including Voight got interested in him, because he acted somewhat suspicious in that sense, for example that he seemed older then he told he was and he commented very strangely and seemed to want contact with people that had gotten hurt by the crimes of Zodiac! He also told us straight out that Zodiac wasn't the killer at Beryessa! The gay angle i recall semmed to amuse him aswell.

I followed everything and someone on the board tracked him to an San Francisco internet server and obviously they thought he might be Gaikowski. But maybe he was Blaine or maybe he was themselves, who knows?

I didn't like it when they showed a black screenshot of supposedly Gaikowskis ( or Oscars ) computer screen, and he had a username of " Lake Herman" ( please correct me if anything in this is wrong in any detail ). Because if this is true ( and remember how he told Blaine about his disinterest ), i think they never should have released their grip on him. I don't care if they say it was as long as they could come computer wise. If that's the case then take it to the FBI or get money somehow to really, really prove that Gyke/ Oscar is their guy.

He was very suspicious alright, he could be a fabrication or Zodiac himself or someone very interested in the case, that perhaps wanted to get known as a possible Zodiac figure. But why then was he so discreet in his comments, that they almost didn't suspect him? That could mean that he really perhaps was Zodiac or a lie concocted by themselves.

Oscar and Gaikowski hade some similarities aswell. Perhaps the month in when they were both born? Also i think Oscar told something about that Zodiac was with the black panters ( ? ), but Voight the commented that Gaikowski was but how could Oscar know this about Zodiac .

I think the month thing may have a connection to the "my name cipher" letter aswell, April i guess is the month.

Johnny

8/4/2024 12:55:18 pm

Sorry, it would be pisces, february and march, Gaikowski born in march.
Heres the sign: https://astrotalk.com/astrology-blog/why-does-pisces-mean-two-fishes-in-horoscopes-insideastro-iatr8-18/

The cipher letter: https://www.iflscience.com/zodiac-killers-final-two-messages-may-have-been-decoded-and-his-identity-finally-revealed-once-and-for-all-60141

...please look at the pisces like signs in the o:s.

johnny

8/4/2024 12:30:47 pm

This is really interesting though. Maybe Richard also remembers this and have thought about it. You two both are smart.

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 01:11:25 pm

Thanks for the explanation, Johnny.

So, this is into the territory of posters who are actually ''Zodiac'' or possibly others at given times, like Blaine Blaine ?

I can only add that I am confident that Zodiac did post for a period of about two years as ''Balloon Captain 66''. He sent the ''Greetings from Ireland'' card to me (October 2016), which was meant for Voigt. And the ''Burger Chef 340'' card to Voigt (September 2018), but meant for me. Deliberately, in both cases.

In addition, referring to Voigt & I as ''Zodiac Sisters'', as in ''Sisters of Worship'' of him, The Zodiac. But, as so often are his references literally duplicitous, the ''Sisters'' also referred to the set of three mountains in Oregon, with that name. Essentially, he was owning up to being ''concerned citizen for freedom'' and author of what is now known as ''The Richard Nixon Postcard''.

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 02:22:35 pm

What might give me the confidence (?), over the Zodiac's Richard Nixon Postcard: I bought the original ''Sisters'' postcard that he used, and sent it to him, telling him a joke about the Alibi Clock in Vallejo and his predicament. Also, pointing out his ''Rich White Pen Wash'' subliminal messaging on his postcard written.

How did I know where to find the Zodiac ? I didn't - but I slipped ''my'' postcard to him in the mail of someone I believed might still hold associations with him. So, I wasn't actually expecting a reply - but it came in the form of a newspaper personal ad., about 18 months later. Hence, I had become the only known person (yet to be confirmed) to have successfully extorted the Zodiac.

No big deal unless he is brought to justice - and Voigt will probably remain in denial, in his hope that a long-dead Gyke is still the Zodiac.

Johnny

8/4/2024 03:00:09 pm

It may be good for our health, Rubi, that we have this interest. It's something to do and better then to be nervous.

This suspect you have, is it really Grants ( the Grant that
Lafferty suspected i mean ) son you say? If he is still alive maybe we
can nail that bastard! Somehow? But if we do, we need other interests. I have a few but in a sense i don't want this solved.

Rubislaw32 link

8/4/2024 03:21:05 pm

Well - without the assistance of politicians of influence, I'm not convinced it will happen.

An awful thought that Z-followers in the future will be picking over the bones of a case that was still solvable in 2015. Perhaps just an opinion, but I really have to wonder how much CA DOJ have wanted a solution.....sometimes.

Rubislaw32 link

8/5/2024 04:10:49 am

A classic ? TikTok is taking over - and I shouldn't be so sniffy.

In the last 48 hours Richard Hoffman's grandson has had 5 minute rant in his car, claiming ''My Grandpa was the Zodiac''. It's attracted ''zillions'' of young folk to the Zodiac case. Probably a good thing - I usually save my most caustic comments for the FBI aka The FIB, but actually, CA DOJ could do with a rocket up their XXXes.

It used to be ''My Pa was the Zodiac'', but now we have moved on another generation.

Johnny

8/5/2024 09:14:00 am

Wonder how much money he get on a thing like this?
I have heard that every viewer generate a certain amount of money.

Rubislaw32 link

8/5/2024 09:43:19 am

Our site (ZKM) benefitted with an extra 5,000 visitors (keeps the sponsors happy, anyway). I was that naive that I e-mailed our Admin, to inform: ''Help, we are being sabotaged !''..

anon

9/14/2024 08:11:59 am

Good morning : regarding the article "did donna lass live close to Zodiac." answer yes they did live close. Zodiac lived on via san jose, Donna lived on Balboa, but further, I do know 100 percent at that time Zodiac was a solar panel installer and later owned his own solar company, its possible some solar work was done around Balboa and he saw her from a rooftop.

Comments are closed.

DID DONNA LASS LIVE CLOSE TO ZODIAC?

Archives