ZODIAC CIPHERS
RICHARD GRINELL, COVENTRY, ENGLAND
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AN AUDIENCE TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT

1/5/2025

 
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The police and other outlets received many calls from individuals who claimed to be the Zodiac Killer, which were routinely passed off as potential hoaxers. The most infamous of these calls came on October 22nd 1969, firstly at 2:00am to the Oakland Police Department headquarters at 455 7th St, asking for either Melvin Belli or Francis Lee Bailey to appear on the popular Jim Dunbar TV Show. The second contact, later that morning, was a series of calls to the TV show from somebody claiming to be the Zodiac Killer, who was eventually discovered to be a mental patient by the name of Eric Weill, who chose to use the name "Sam" when prompted and ultimately delivered a rambling psychotic message to the two hosts and viewing public.

The police were clearly unconvinced by many of the "Zodiac" calls they received, so it should have been an obvious choice to have vetted anybody wanting to "appear" on a mainstream television show in front of a considerable audience. The Oakland Police Department, either by their request or by wilful submission from the caller, appeared to have done this by getting "undisclosed knowledge about the killings" from the mystery man. This would have been extremely easy, by simply asking the caller to disclose the wording "by knife", written on the white 1956 Karmann Ghia  of Bryan Hartnell at Lake Berryessa, which was withheld from public knowledge. So why wasn't this done when "Sam" rang the Jim Dunbar TV Show a few hours later? This could have immediately removed Eric Weill from the phone line and increased the chances of the real Zodiac Killer delivering his message on the airwaves, to possibly be recognised by one of the many listeners or attending law enforcement. At the very least, investigators may have gained extra insight into the murderer of five, who had undoubtedly rang the Jim Dunbar Show earlier that month when Melvin Belli was last on the show.    

PictureMelvin Mouron Belli
​When the Zodiac impersonator rang into the Jim Dunbar Show on October 22nd 1969, the caller was asked by the host "Did you try to call us one other time, about two or three weeks ago. Did you attempt to call this program one other time when Mr. Belli was with us?". Jim Dunbar was clearly aware of a previous attempt by the "Zodiac Killer" to call the television show, but as had become usual, this call was probably dismissed as a hoaxer wasting police time. If the caller to the Oakland Police Department was confirmed to be the Zodiac Killer - who asked for Melvin Belli - then it's hugely significant that a previous caller had asked to appear on the very same Jim Dunbar Show two or three weeks previously, when Melvin Belli was once again the guest. An earlier call that would have been placed a matter of days before the Paul Stine murder in San Francisco. Especially when you consider that the caller rang KGO Radio in San Francisco when no murders had yet been committed by the Zodiac Killer in San Francisco. If the caller to the Oakland Police Department on October 22nd 1969 was fully verified as the Zodiac Killer, then it is with near certainty he rang the Jim Dunbar Show before the Presidio Heights murder on October 11th 1969.

​He may have rang the Jim Dunbar Show between October 1st 1969 and October 10th 1969 to announce that he was about to unleash terror into the heart of the big city, but after being thwarted on this occasion and his attempt on October 22nd 1969, he probably lost patience and declared on November 9th 1969 that he would no longer announce when he was going to commit his murders. The apparent lack of vetting of the Jim Dunbar Show caller, ultimately allowed Eric Weill to waste everyone's time and send law enforcement down another blind alley.

The Zodiac Killer opened up his November 9th 1969 letter with his disdain for police, stating "This is the Zodiac speaking up to the end of Oct I have killed 7 people. I have grown rather angry with the police for their telling lies about me. So I shall change the way the collecting of slaves. I shall no longer announce to anyone. When I committ my murders, they shall look like routine robberies, killings of anger, + a few fake accidents, etc". The lies that the Zodiac Killer was speaking of were likely the utterances of San Francisco Chief of Inspectors, Martin Lee, who stated in the newspaper below that the Zodiac Killer was lying when he claimed he had entered the Presidio Park on October 11th 1969. He rejected the claim of Zodiac that he was close by "in the Julius Kahn Playground" and was a killer who had "almost certainly left his fingerprints somewhere in the Yellow Cab". But there is something unusual about Chief Martin Lee's statements.   

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PictureOfficer Donald Fouke
The above newspaper article is correct that the Zodiac Killer chided police for not searching "the park properly (who were) instead holding road races with their motorcicles seeing who could make the most noise". However, the newspaper article claimed that the Zodiac Killer "wrote (in a taunting letter) that all the while police were looking for him he was not far away in the Julius Kahn Playground". But this article was published on October 19th 1969 when the Zodiac Killer had never mentioned his presence in the Julius Kahn Playground. His October 13th 1969 "Stine letter" only mentioned the "park", which could have been anywhere in San Francisco's Presidio Park.

It wasn't until November 9th 1969, twenty-one days later, that the Zodiac Killer made any inference to Julius Kahn Playground, when he informed police that "p.s. 2 cops pulled a goof abot 3 min after I left the cab. I was walking down the hill to the park when this cop car pulled up + one of them called me over + asked if I saw anyone acting suspicious or strange in the last 5 to 10 min + I said yes there was this man who was runnig by waveing a gun & the cops peeled rubber + went around the corner as I directed them + I disappeared into the park a block + a half away never to be seen again".

PictureChief Martin Lee
​Three days later, on November 12th 1969, a police memorandum from Officer Donald Fouke began with "Sir; I respectfully wish to report the following", before going on to describe his encounter with the Zodiac Killer on Jackson Street (which was about "a block + a half away" from Spruce Street and Julius Kahn Playground). If this was the first time Officer Donald Fouke had told of his encounter with Zodiac to his superiors, it seems odd that Chief Martin Lee was responding to a claim in a newspaper article on October 19th 1969 that Zodiac had told them he was in Julius Kahn Playground. ​Admittedly, there was an October 12th 1969 San Francisco Chronicle article describing a man seen running into the Julius Kahn Playground, but Zodiac hadn't suggested this was him until November 9th 1969 when he claimed he disappeared into the park at the northern terminus of Spruce Street (a block and a half away from the cops). So how could Zodiac have lied about being in Julius Kahn Playground by October 19th 1969, when he had made no such claim until November 9th 1969? 

​It has long been suspected that the above memorandum was a belated offering, issued by Donald Fouke's superiors in response to the Zodiac's November 9th 1969 letter, when in fact, they had long known that Officer Donald Fouke had reported his sighting of the white male (Zodiac) shortly after it happened. Chief Martin Lee had been aware before October 19th 1969 that a man was seen running into the Julius Kahn Playground. He was also likely knowledgeable of Donald Fouke's sighting of Zodiac traveling east on Jackson Street towards Julius Kahn Playground. This being the case, it's easy to see how Chief Martin Lee may have coalesced the two stories together on October 19th 1969, when asserting that Zodiac claimed he was hiding in Julius Kahn Playground, when in fact, the Zodiac Killer had only ever claimed he was hiding in the "park" at this juncture.

This is not insignificant, because it shows knowledge of Officer Donald Fouke's sighting of Zodiac long before the police memorandum was issued on November 12th 1969. All that Chief Martin Lee knew, was that a white male adult was seen running into Julius Kahn Payground by eyewitnesses. The Zodiac Killer had made no such claim of entering at this location by October 19th 1969. Therefore, why would Chief Martin Lee be refuting a claim that had never been issued by the Zodiac Killer up to this date? The mere contemplation of a killer hiding in the Julius Kahn playground, suggests a knowledge that the Zodiac Killer was heading in this direction after passing Officer Donald Fouke on Jackson Street. The sighting detailed in the October 12th 1969 newspaper article has never been officially connected to the Zodiac Killer, so why would Chief Martin Lee have been responding to (or brought up) the notion of the Zodiac Killer hiding in Julius Kahn Playground, when the Zodiac Killer had never been conclusively linked to this location, or had even mentioned it in any communication by October 19th 1969? Only by November 9th 1969, in Zodiac's writings, could it have been determined that the Zodiac Killer had entered the park at Julius Kahn Playground. Something that Chief Martin Lee couldn't have known by October 19th 1969.       

PictureSan Francisco Chronicle, October 18th 1969
On October 18th 1969, the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper stated "In a letter to The Chronicle, the Zodiac chided police for not finding him during their search of Julius Kahn Park and a nearby wooded portion of the park". Yet this wasn't true. The Zodiac Killer had not chided the police in his October 13th 1969 letter for their search of the Julius Kahn Playground or any nearby wooded portion of the park. However, the Zodiac Killer had chided the police for their search of this area on November 9th 1969.

In his November 9th 1969 letter the Zodiac stated "Hey blue pig I was in the park -- you were useing fire trucks to mask the sound of your cruzeing prowl cars. The dogs never came with in 2 blocks of me + they were to the west". If the Zodiac Killer had walked from Cherry Street to Spruce Street via Jackson Street, it is highly unlikely that once he entered the Julius Kahn Playground, he would have backtracked through the Presidio Park in a westerly direction (back towards the crime scene). If he entered the park, his first movements were likely east of Julius Kahn Playground. This was backed up by the Zodiac Killer's statements in his letter. Dogs were deployed by the entrance to the Julius Kahn playground (the location the man was seen running into the park on October 11th 1969), which was 2 blocks west of a wooded portion where Zodiac claimed he was watching the police activity from (which was two blocks east of Julius Kahn Playground in a wooded area). But the Zodiac Killer did not claim this until three weeks after the San Francisco Chronicle article on October 18th 1969.

The police knew of eyewitness reports shortly after the murder that a man was seen running into Julius Kahn Playground, but the Zodiac hadn't suggested this was him in any letter to the San Francisco Chronicle until November 9th 1969. This sighting is barely mentioned by Zodiac researchers and amateur sleuths. In fact, it is comprehensively ignored by the vast majority of people when examining the eyewitness descriptions given at Presidio Heights. Yet here, on October 18th 1969, they are placing the Zodiac Killer in Julius Kahn Playground by way of a letter he wrote to the Chronicle before November had even arrived.      

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The claims by Chief Martin Lee that Zodiac was lying about entering the park, it can be argued, caused the Zodiac to write his lengthy letter on November 9th 1969, and possibly make contact with the Oakland Police Department on October 22nd 1969 requesting an audience with the Jim Dunbar Show, rather than contact the San Francisco Police Department who he thought were telling lies about him. After all, Oakland was only 2.7 miles from San Francisco. 
Rubislaw32 link
1/5/2025 02:44:14 pm

Something for the pot, if pertinent: Evidence that the Zodiac was well aware of Melvin Belli, July 31st 1969.

''concerned citizen'' aka The Zodiac's 408 cipher solution exposed concealed messaging down the its central column:

HIM MR ERTT BELLY

ERTT ? Emergency Response Technical Training - the creation of central government at the outset of the Cold War - then farmed out to local government for responsibility. These courses included paramedical skills. Hence explaining Melvin Belli's joke that he wasn't an ambulance chaser - but knew when to arrive before an ambulance, if necessary.

The Zodiac: ''Him, Mr ''Emergency Response & Technical Training'' Belli.''.

Rubislaw32 link
1/6/2025 03:26:08 am

At that July 31st 1969 time, the Zodiac had carried out attacks at Lake Herman Road and Blue Rock Springs - accounting for three dead, and one wounded. He would have recognized that his continued liberty wasn't guaranteed - and ought to consider his options, if arrested.

The Zodiac probably knew all about Belli's ill-fated attempts to defend Jack Ruby for murdering Lee Harvey Oswald, lodging a plea of Ruby's temporary insanity. But, at least Belli represented someone who was prepared to speak-up for the underdog.

Rich
1/6/2025 10:50:40 am

I did a sweep of the newspapers from October 1st to October 10th 1969 for anything in the newspapers about a Melvin Belli appearance on the Jim Dunbar Show but the many entries I found in the TV list didn't feature his guests. I also looked from September 10th 1969 to October 21st 1969 for any Belli stories that may have caught Zodiac's eye and made him choose Belli and/or Oakland on October 22nd 1969, however, nothing jumped out at me. It was maybe just the historical aspect of Melvin Belli and the cases he covered that made Zodiac choose him and F. Lee Bailey, like you said Rubi. I will keep looking.

Jibberjabber
1/6/2025 12:46:52 pm

I have been searching newspaper articles for things on Belli and Bailey then I had a moment of inspiration and searched on articles where they appear together! There are loads, they were both regular guests on TV shows in the early to mid 1960s discussing famous cases, Bailey had his own chat show for a while. I think something that might be relevant as to why Zodiac specifically asked for these 2 when he phoned Oakland PD is all through 1968 when the assassin of Robert F Kennedy (Sirhan Sirhan) was going to trial, there are dozens of articles which keep saying Belli and Bailey are the 2 most prominent defence lawyers in the USA, and he keeps making a point that he wants neither to defend him. The strange thing is they never offered too defend him in the first place. But it seems as well as both of them being high profile and having developing media personalities in the 1960s it is the RFK coverage all 1968 that repeatedly puts them together as being the 2 lawyers you would want to defend you on a murder charge. It is possible Zodiac saw that coverage and remembered it a year later? Also something I am not sure if has been mentioned, Richard may have found it but in September 1969 F Lee Bailey part financed a club for business men in the city called the Envoy club. This was on Sutter Street which really is not too far from Belli's work and home address on Montgomery Street. This may be an answer to a question I have been mulling over for a while, why or how did Zodiac ever think Bailey could make it to the Dunbar show with less than 5 hours notice - if he was expecting them to appear in person. He must have known Belli was resident but maybe he thought Bailey was in town too at the Envoy club?

Rich
1/6/2025 01:19:17 pm

Nice work Jibber, can't argue with any of that. After all, we know Zodiac could drag things up from months and years previously, so his knowledge of this pair featuring together in the newspapers is perfectly logical.

Richard
1/6/2025 01:31:55 pm

On October 17th 1969 Belli stated that he had plans soon to head to Vietnam to defend Green Beret Sgt. Timothy Kephart in a military court martial. If Zodiac was unsure Belli was going to be in the country, it's possible he added Bailey into the mix just in case.

JIbberjabber
1/7/2025 09:51:29 am

I still wonder what was Zodiac expecting to happen on the Jim Dunbar show. Was it a TV show only or was it a radio show only or was it a TV show that simultaneously went out on the radio?

Was he expecting 1 or both of his preferred guests to actually appear in person or would it have been possible for Belli and / or Bailey to telephone into the show remotely as well as Zodiac, and somehow have Zodiac / Belli / Bailey on the phones with Dunbar in the studio acting as a moderator?

I am still just curcious as what Zodiac expected to happen on the show.
if the call came in to Oaklnd PD at 2 AM and the show went on air at 7 AM, then there is very little time to arrange anything back then in the days when telephonic contact was the only thing available.

The fact they even rushed Belli into the studio (and hidden in the back of the car which we saw in the movie and I think I read it in his autobiography) it makes me think they must have been pretty certain they had the genuine Zodiac otherwise why bother waking all these people up in the middle of the night, taking over the format of a TV show etc

You mentioned vetting on another article, I feel like they had satisfied themselves it was Zodiac that phoned Oakland PD, but then it seems once they opened the show, Dunbar asked the viewers not to phone in so the Zodiac killer could reach the show (!) it was basically carte blanche for any hoaxer to exploit.

To be honest, if Zodiac was front page news by this time and the most wanted man in the bay area if Not California / USA, I would have to think most people listening would themselves want to see if he phoned in. hoaxing is something a child would do, if it was Eric Weill I would put it down to maybe him being a fantasist or whatever you would call it.

The thing we will never know is - would the real Zodiac have phoned the show? did he phone and not get through? Is that why he wrote the letter - because he did not manage to speak to Belli on the phone on the show? or did he have an off-air chat with Belli and the letter was as well as having spoken to Belli?

But if the letter had any authenticity of meaning behind it, why did Zodiac leave no way for Belli to contact him, and Zodiac never said in the Belli letter that he would contact Belli again

The arranging the TV show could have been a pure publicity stunt, but would that explain the letter to Belli's home address?

Rich
1/7/2025 11:34:39 am

My best thoughts on the matter Jibber, is that Zodiac first rang the Jim Dunbar Show directly so he could ring in during a live audience and announce an upcoming murder in San Francisco, which he wanted to do with Melvin Belli. He was thwarted because they probably thought he was a hoaxer, so his second contact on October 22nd he went through Oakland and provided proof to the dispatcher to add more validity to his wish to be heard. I wouldn't have been surprised had he got through, that his conversation with Belli and Dunbar would have sounded like the Bus Bomb letter, mocking the police and refuting Chief Martin Lee's claims of lies. Because he failed again, he opened up his November 9th letter saying he would "no longer announce his murders". He was probably pissed after failing to get on the show. This is probably why he mockingly wrote the Belli letter and probably rang Oklahoma on December 7th 1969 doing an impersonation of Weill.

The Zodiac wasn't averse to using the phone to contact the police, so why not a TV show before October 11th 1969. He could have dropped a clue into this TV appearance via the phone and said something like "look for the missing shirt piece". Then when police discovered the next victim (such as Stine) and a shirt piece was missing they would have known it was him. Or he could have done something similar. Why they didn't vet the caller on October 22nd 1969 stinks and makes me think that ratings and audience views was the primary driver. But I think the main reason for calling the show on October 22nd was to let off steam and maybe tell them about his excursion into the park. Because this was denied we got seven pages of a Bus Bomb letter venting his tales and plans. Don't forget that Zodiac did ring police in between the Stine murder and the October 22nd call to Oakland threatening to blow up a school bus. He may also have wanted to bring this up on the Jim Dunbar Show, but again, because he was thwarted, he included this into his November letter as well/

JIbberjabber
1/7/2025 01:07:33 pm

Great thoughts Richard, and I had forgot all about the Oakland bomb threat. I do wonder why was Zodiac mainly killing in Vallejo, mainly posting from San Francisco, but then phoning the police from Oakland - or I should say phoning Oakland PD. why not phone the police in SFPD at that time the head office was the San Francisco Halls of Justice - I have even telephoned SFPD myself (and never got any response!) why phone Oakland when he could hve picked up the phone and likely dialled Toschi & Armstrong, said somehting only he would know to validate his identity.

One thing I dont think I had realised but just read it again I am sure you have noticed it, I think the calls to Martinez teacher Daniel Williams started on the 23rd and was a man claiming to be Zodiac, complaining of headaches and wanting to kill kids. This is basiclly what "Sam" was saying on the Dunbar show only the day before.

Was this the real Zodiac doing an impersonation of Eric Weill, was it Eric Weill or a 3rd person entirely? we have the added component of an actual dose of arsenic added to his drink, so this was no "hoax" phonecall in that sense of the word.

Richard
1/7/2025 02:15:26 pm

Absolutely Jibber, the timing of the Daniel Williams phone calls complaining of headaches is extremely pertinent, bearing in mind they were the day after the Dunbar Show.

Richard
1/7/2025 02:16:39 pm

By the way the school bus bomb threats were to Santa Rosa, not Oakland.

JIbberjabber
1/8/2025 01:12:06 pm

just going back to this idea of vetting, if Zodiac phoned Oakland PD and told them something only he would know, Oakland PD probably contacted SFPD to check whatever this supposed information was, because Zodiac did not commit any crime (we know of) in the Oakland area, he must have said something that was known to those closest to the investigation which at this point can only be the detecives in Vallejo, Solano county, Napa or likely as it was the most recent and probably easiest therefore to verify - with a detective from SFPD.

I doubt the patrol officer who answered the call knew anything more than what had been reported in the newspapers.

If this caller did say something to the guy on the phone at Oakland, and then that guy at Oakland thought "maybe I SHOULD check this out with Toschi" for example , and Toshi gets a phonecall from Oakland PD saying did the killer of Paul Stine take the trip sheet - for example, then Toschi knows that was the true Zodiac.

so maybe SFPD pushed for the Dunbar show as they potentially thought this was a lead or very likely they were trying to trace the call.

I know you have asked if the whole show was a ratings gimmick, I think it definitelt was, but if SFPD set it up after "vetting" the caller to Oakland PD, rather than the producers at the Dunbar show said lets just do the show anyway - does maybe change things.

You are absolutely right when you say they should have vetted the callers , infact if SFPD did have a hand in the show going ahead as per the called to Oakland, they easily could have and should have!

All they had to say was - repeat to us what you told the officer at Oakland PD so we know you are the same caller.

I think it is inexcusable they did not do that - they literally opened the floodgates for anyone to call the show, and it seems Eric Weill did just that.

Did Eric Weill prevent the Zodiac getting through to the Dunbar show, or was the real Zodic never planning to call anyway? We shall never know, but if they did not vet the caller to the show, I agree with you Richard it is a tragic missed opportunity to perhaps have had Zodiac on the phone.

The fact they were still trying to trace the calls / caller until they identified Eric Weill shows maybe they did not consider the lead totally fruitless, but they really missed the chance to leave the line open specifically for the Zodiac,


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Photos from Marcin Wichary, zAppledot, vyusseem, Alex Barth, Alan Cleaver, jocelynsart, Richard Perry, taberandrew, eschipul, MrJamesAckerley